Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom tells why your teen should not watch ’13 Reasons Why’

Episode Date: May 23, 2017

The Florida mother who believes “13 Reasons Why” contributed to her son’s suicidal thoughts tells Nancy Grace what happened to her 15-year-old after a teacher suggested students watch the Netflix series. Psychologist Caryn Stark, who criticizes the show for glorifying suicide, gives the mom and all parents advice on how to deal with children who might want to end their own lives. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. life ended. The fictional series features a high school girl who sends tapes to students and a teacher explaining how they wronged her. If you're listening to this tape, you're one of the reasons why. Everyone is just so nice until they drive you to kill yourself. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A mother says a teacher gave her 15-year-old son the idea to watch a Netflix series she feels contributed to some of his mental health issues. One of the teachers was discussing the series in class and basically said, you know, I think it's a pretty good show. You guys should check it out. Days later, her son was committed for psychiatric evaluation. He was creating a 13 Reasons Why list, told us he was having thoughts of suicide, that he didn't want to live. The controversial new Netflix show, 13 Reasons Why.

It sounds innocent, innocuous enough, doesn't it? 13 Reasons Why. Why what? Why I don't want to live. That's the rest of that sentence. 13 Reasons Why I want to commit suicide. And this is geared toward tweens. Yeah, children.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. We reported on a vigilant Florida mother who got very concerned when her son had suicidal ideations, thoughts of suicide. Well, who wouldn't think about suicide after you watch Netflix, 13 Reasons Why I Should Commit Suicide, and it's about a young person who does, in fact, go on to commit suicide and by killing themselves gain some sort of notoriety or popularity amongst their horrible friends that mocked them and bullied them in life. It's all twisted up and bass-ackwards. Who wouldn't think of suicide when you watch a popular show about child suicide?

Of course you're going to think about suicide. I didn't think about suicide until I read this story. Well, joining me right now is a very special guest. That child's mother, yes, the Florida mom, who we are just calling mom, is with me to talk about this, to set the record straight and explain her thinking. Mom, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Nancy. I really appreciate you joining us on the podcast.

I have had a very, very dear friend out of the blue commit suicide, and I never understood it. I never understood why and it has haunted me all this time thinking maybe there was something I could have done about it you are doing something about it tell me how this whole thing got started mom well basically it was brought to light that a couple of friends my kids were my son was hanging out with were in a pretty bad state of mind themselves. And when at this time it was revealed to me through some risky behavior by my son, just some different things that he had done, that made me stop and wonder, why is he doing these things?

He knows that, you know, this just isn't him. And so I put an end to him communicating through social media with these two kids because what was happening was the three kids, instead of reaching out for help, were wallowing in their pain and feeding off of each other, and it was only making matters worse. And when you said, Nancy, that your friend committed suicide and you had no idea why, that's the problem. That's the problem with this teacher talking with the students about it.

He himself said to the assistant principal, I would have never thought that this child had these problems. He's always in a good mood. He's always active in class. He always participates. He respected law enforcement very much. And, you know, to take advice like, I think it's a pretty good show, you guys should check it out really meant that it was a good thing for him to do. And I had no idea. And I've been blamed that he's watched it. But I didn't even know the show existed until it all came out.

Oh, my stars, mom, let me tell you something. About every two or three days, either my son or my daughter says, can we watch Netflix? I'm like, no, no, because I don't know what they'll, you know, happen to hit on. And I've watched Netflix plenty, especially crime related things. But I sure as heck don't want them to get on and find something especially like this I didn't even know this existed but I can only imagine

if I've got nine year old twins if they got a hold of this and started thinking about suicide I was devastated when I finally did hear about it and checked it out myself I did not watch the series I did not but I did watch the commentary with Selena Gomez, the actors and actresses,

and what they felt they were doing. Well, by that time, my son had already watched the whole thing alone, and that's the problem. You have people on both sides saying the show is not a problem, but if your child has some issues that he's hiding from you, then it is a problem. It can suck them in deeper, just like it had done. What child in school doesn't have a problem?

I mean, even the most popular. Like my sister, she was the valedictorian. Beautiful. She tried out for cheerleading with me. Made varsity cheerleading. She was the smartest one in the school. And you think, you know, she had it all. But did you know she had bullies?

People that made fun of her for being so smart. I mean, it's not like that. Nobody knew that. Every day, we were latchkey kids. We came home alone. We cleaned the house. We made dinner. We did the chores. Blah the chores blah blah blah we all worked had jobs nobody would have known all that but on the outside looking in you think wow she doesn't have any problems well she did have problems that she

never voiced a lot of kids have bullies they never mention because they're embarrassed they feed into what the bullies say they think they're fat they think they they never mention because they're embarrassed. They feed into what the bullies say. They think they're fat. They think they're stupid. They think they're a four eyes or whatever they're called at school. They buy into it. They start believing it. They don't want to tell their parents.

They're ashamed. I mean, of course your kid has problems at school. Every kid has problems at school. My daughter got her first bully in pre-K for Pete's sake. Pre-K! He was not only bullied by students, for Pete's sake. Pre-K! He was not only bullied by students, but he's been bullied by teachers in the school system. Twice I've had to go and confront teachers about them bullying and humiliating him at school.

Okay, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What did a teacher say to him? It's not what she said to him. It's what she said to her class after he left the room. He was being bullied in the classroom, and the teacher wasn't even in the room. She was standing outside the door. And a boy slid a chair in front of my son when he tried to go sit down, and my son moved the chair back out of the way.

And then when he went to go again, the kid pushed the chair in front of him again. And then my son picked the chair up, put it over the table. The chair slipped out of his hand. The teacher comes running in and says that he threw a chair across the classroom. So instead of sending him to the office, she sends somebody down there to get him. And once he leaves the classroom, she explains to the child, the children that are in the classroom, that he has obviously some deep-seated anger and some issues going on.

It must be a problem at home. Oh, my stars. So my son didn't come back and tell me that because he had no knowledge. I hope you chewed them a new butthole. Of course, that's a B word that we're not allowed to say at home. But the children aren't listening, so I'll totally say it. Let me ask you about this. So your child has, can I ask you his age?

He just turned 15. Okay. So all this has been going on when he is a tween, he's, you know, 12, 13, 14. He's just a baby. That is just a little baby. He's sweet. That's like my son. He's a lover, not a fighter. Yeah, that's my son too. He loves everybody. He's always happy, always trying to see the positive side in things. And it's very sad that the people that you trust them with can be bullies, too. And the teacher straight up told me while I was confronting her,

her first explanation was all the kids were lying because it wasn't my son that came and told me. It was his friends in the classroom. And her first thing was, they're lying. I said, no, we're going to get to the bottom of this. You're not going to just say the kids are all lying. Just like the current teacher we're discussing, he blamed it on the children that they discussed it. Well, if you know they discussed it, then obviously it's an issue. Yeah, you're right. If they're all discussing it, it's an issue. I'm going to pause and thank our awesome sponsor, our partner in

today's podcast. And I'll start with a story out of Racine, Wisconsin. A house catches on fire, nobody's home. It took a while for neighbors to even notice the problem. But at the end of the day, there were $40,000 damages, priceless items, gone. Family heirlooms charred beyond recognition. If you're not home when a fire starts, who will be there to save your house, your belongings, your home? For SimpliSafe home security user Tricia, SimpliSafe was there. She was on vacation. Her home caught fire. She was vacationing three states away from home, but was simply safe. Her smoke alarm went off. The fire department was alerted immediately, and they arrived in time to save Trisha's home. Simply safe has round-the-7, 365 monitoring. Now that is peace of mind. Get 24-7 connection

to dispatch, lightning fast response time in emergencies with SimpliSafe home security. Order today and you get a special 10% discount. SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy. SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy for the 10% off your home security system. SimpliSafe.com slash Nancy. SimpliSafe, thank you for what you are doing for Americans that believe home security is unaffordable. It's not, thanks to you. Now let's get back to our podcast. So did the teacher, who will remain nameless, tell the students, yeah, it's a good show, check it out? That's what the students told me.

Two different students in two different classrooms. Well, as I used to tell all of my juries, Mom, do you think all these people are lying or just the defendant? Which one makes more sense that he's lying to save his own skin or all these witnesses have gotten together and come up with a story and they're all have a conspiracy to tell a story? No, that does not make sense. So now he's saying he didn't say that according to mom. Okay, what is the show about Alan Duke? Tell me about the show because didn't a child in 13 Reasons Why, commit suicide, and then kind of get popular because the 13 horrible friends

are confronted post-mortem after death, and they kind of glorify the dead child, and the dead child becomes popular. The best information that I have on this is what I know from psychologist Karen Stark, who has just joined us on the phone. Hey, Karen Stark, we need you. Karen, you and I talked about this. Everybody, Karen is shrink. She's a very renowned psychologist and has dealt with suicide issues many, many times, commented on them, written about them.

Karen Stark, thank you again for joining us. Well, we certainly stirred up a hornet's nest when we first started talking about 13 Reasons Why. And Karen, I don't know if you know this, but with me right now is the student, the child's mom. And I say, Mom is the student, the child's mom. And I say, mom is the hero because mom found out about this and she saved her son's life as far as I'm concerned. Okay, Karen?

But Karen, this show, this 13 Reasons Why, and I like Selena Gomez except for that little blip she had with Justin Bieber. But she is eping executive producing this thing and they may in their minds think they're doing a favor to people but what this does is karen my understanding is the child is bullied at school the child commits suicide and then the 13 friends that bullied the child are confronted after the child is dead, and then the child gets popular. Who gives a fig if you're popular in high school?

I mean, does anybody really think they're popular anyway? But it glorifies the whole suicide, Karen. Well, it makes it look, Nancy, like if you commit suicide, then all of a sudden everyone who's around you will be very regretful for their behavior. And all of a sudden people will be gathering. That's what my friend said. He said that nobody ever said anything good about him. But if he wasn't here, they would all say nice things about him.

Oh, no, wait. I'm so sorry. That is one of the signs that you have to watch for, that someone would say that they'd be better off. He never said anything like that until this all came out. He never shared with me how he was feeling like that. He never told me that he felt that way. He told me that he didn't want people to make him seem like he was better than he was. Yeah, that's the problem with this show. I am so sorry that that happened to you. Karen. Yes, Nancy.

I'm just thinking, you know, the other day, somebody said something mean to Lucy at school. She was crying. The next day, John Davy came home, and they had to present their projects, their science inventions. And John Davies was a flying car, okay, that he made out of cardboard. And each person had one vote, okay. And nobody voted for his car, okay. So he came home, and he had worked so hard on it.

And he started crying and it about broke my heart can you imagine what this mother has gone through with her son saying nobody ever says anything good about me and i mean he's only a baby he's you know when all this is going down he's 12 13 years old k. And that's the time when you're most susceptible, Nancy. And I'm so sorry to hear about your son because you really take it in when you're that age. You don't realize the kinds of things that we talked about yesterday, Nancy, that things will get better, that you'll have a life, that people will care about you. And the problem with 13 reasons, although they were well-intended, is it makes it really look like everyone will then love you,

regret their behavior, gather together to talk about you. All of a sudden, you'll become this important person that you didn't feel like. So this girl who was not popular and rejected and everything went wrong, she wrote to each person and then they regretted their behavior. I want to go back to mom. You said that your son said

nobody ever said good things about him. And when he saw the show, he thought maybe people would like him if he committed suicide well he thought that they would then say wow you know why would he do this he was so friendly and so nice and so funny and so smart and and i told him but you're not going to know that if you're not here so it doesn't matter what they say either way. I've always encouraged them, and I've always believed in this world of social media and all the pressures that the kids are under. I, as a family with my children, let them know that I'm there all the time, but kids don't always tell you because

they're embarrassed because they see mental health issues as crazy and nobody wants to look at it. But none of this ever came out until the last breaking point when my son ran away. It was the most terrifying thing in my life. Oh, I have no doubt. I didn't know that part. What happened? What happened, Mom? We were having a discussion about the two kids that I didn't want him communicating on social media with, and he was getting very frustrated.

Like, he felt like he needed to stay in contact with them. And then he, in his frustration, I guess, because my other two kids were like, Robbie, oh, my God, they're not your friends. You can't save them. And then he revealed to us that he was cutting himself, and we were all blown away, and maybe we didn't react right. But how do you react when you see that? And then he just ran out the door and ran away,

and we had to get the police to find him. Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. This is just snowballing. You know, Karen, some school districts have pulled the book 13 Reasons Why after the deaths of seven students since the start of that year. Now, this is an AP, Associated Press story. Mesa County Valley School District pulled the book.

This is the Netflix hit, 13 Reasons Why, is based on the novel by the same name, and it deals with a fictional teenager, Hannah Baker's death by suicide. Before her death, she records 13 tapes telling people why she killed herself,

basically telling them it was their fault that they bullied her and belittled her. Now, a lot of mental health experts like Karen Stark, parents, teachers, say it glorifies suicide and could be a dangerous lesson for teens. Now, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention says the risk of suicide increase when a story describes the method or uses graphic images. Now, there's no evidence those Mesa County students who killed themselves were inspired by the book or the series, but they removed the book. Seven Colorado community students killed themselves,

and the district ordered the librarians to remove the book, 13 Reasons Why. And now, now a Florida mom trying to save her own son is coming forward claiming that kids in the class were talking about the Netflix series, and the teacher encouraged them to watch the show. Now her son thinks, hey, maybe I'm better off dead. Maybe people will like me then. Mom, how did you learn he was having thoughts of suicide? When a child is Baker-acted, which is what they did when the police picked him up,

they have to go and stay at this facility where they keep an eye on them. I guess they can prescribe medicines as needed, but they basically just stabilize the person until they feel like they're no longer a threat to their self. When he came home from there, I began to engage in him about conversations about this issue, and I wanted him to talk to me and tell me how he felt. And he initially didn't want to talk to me, and then finally broke down, and then all of that came out. All of it came out. And he had even concocted a list. Thank God he didn't make it to

the 13th. The reason why? Because only 10 on the list. But thank God I knew before he completed this list, before I knew the show existed, before anybody at school had talked to them about, there's help out there. But, see, that's the issue, Nancy. That's the whole reason that I went to the school. That's the whole reason that I gave them all the details, because I wanted them to see how serious it is. And I said to the assistant principal, when I went to this very same school, we had law enforcement and child professionals come to the school

and do assemblies and discuss these topics. And, obviously, this is a popular topic in America, not just in Florida, they need to talk to the kids about it. And the only reason that I went to the news at all about it is because they did nothing. They didn't assemble. They didn't try to talk to the kids. They didn't reach out. Therefore, they don't want to deal with it.

They don't want people to know that this is going on in their school and in their town but it's going on in every school in every town right now and until they address it those kids are going to go home this summer while their parents are at work and be alone with their sadness because they don't feel like there's anybody that they can talk to all i wanted them to do was reach out to the kids. That's all I wanted them to do, and they have not done that. Well, you know, we all know Michael Jackson, daughter, Paris, who has dealt with, yes, she's a poor little rich girl, I know that.

But that doesn't mean she isn't saddened by her father's death, that she's not upset about her mother's illness. She says that 13 Reasons Why is, quote, extremely triggering. Now, this is after her own suicide attempt. This is a child. She's, you know, older now who had a suicide bid of her own. And she is warning teens, don't watch it. Now we have a mom speaking out. I'm just stunned the school isn't doing anything.

But thank God mom is. What now? They haven't done anything. I thought for sure with this spring, and not only that, my son had written a list of kids that he knows across the eastern United States. He has friends in a lot of places, and he had a list of names of children that were self-harming and had discussed it with him, And I brought that list to the school, and they talked to the students. And, of course, the students are going to say to the principal or to the resource officer, no, that's not me, I don't do that.

Of course they're going to say that. Of course they are. They're not going to want to be outed and all this drama at school surrounding them. And that's all they did. Well, a week later, one of the girls on that list was Baker Acted. It's a problem. It needs to be looked at. It needs to be discussed with the children at the school. That's right. It's easy to blame parents. It's easy to blame parents, but for seven hours a day, you're with my child. I'm at work. They have an obligation

to the students too. Law enforcement, teachers, principals, counselors, everybody has a responsibility to these kids. Mom, let me ask you a question. Everyone, the hotline [phone], the National Suicide Prevention Line. Mom, what are you doing? Well, since he told me there's no one, me and his doctor, he told there's no one at that school that he feels comfortable going to if he has an issue. If he feels like he's at a breaking point, there's nobody there he can trust. So I've kept him at home. He's not going back to school this year. They're not addressing the issue. They're not looking at the kids. After he got out of the MHRC, he was admitted to Wilson's Children's Hospital in Jacksonville. It's a wonderful hospital.

They're doing a lot of great things for a lot of kids that are hurting. I couldn't believe it when I went there to visit my son how many kids don't want to live. Oh, gosh, that's just killing me. Karen, please give us some advice. What can parents do? First of all, they have to watch for the signs, as we talked about yesterday, Nancy. It's very important. And this mother has already told us that her son's behavior had changed,

that he was harming himself, and that's a huge signal. And you have to look and see, talk about suicide just the way the school did not. And actually, in the show, the school did only after she killed herself. So you have to talk about dying and to see if your child reacts to that, if they have any thoughts like that. And pay attention to a change in behavior, a change in personality, whether there's a difference in how they're sleeping, too much or too little. Have they lost their appetite or are they suddenly overeating? Another thing, I am all about parents reading email going through your kids stuff if you think

there is a problem reading their texts looking at their history are they going to self-harming chat rooms issues like that you are responsible for your child. This school is not helping. Mom, it's all on mom. And mom works all day. I mean, I don't... I'm praying for you, mom, that the Lord helps you find a way through this and that your son survives this.

Because you've got to work. You have to work. That's right. That's right. And what do you do while your son is at school or at home and you have to work? I'd be a nervous wreck.

Everyone, hotline 800. My husband. Yeah? My husband is supervising him during the day. He's not home alone, Nancy. We don't leave him alone. No, he shouldn't be alone. Good. Thank God.

My husband's out of work with an injury, and so therefore, I have to go to work. Do you know how my heart feels when I have to come to work every day and I feel like I should be with him? But I have to support my family and support him when I get back. It's a difficult situation. Oh, Mom, I know. I know. Karen, do you remember when I would leave for work and it would kill me to go over to CNN Studios? I would bathe them, be playing with them. I would have to sneak out without my shoes on so they wouldn't realize I was leaving. Or they would start crying and beg me to stay.

And it just broke my heart. And now this mom is dealing with leaving. I remember how you would never leave them. And if you had to leave them, you went. If you had to travel with your job, you would go immediately back to them. You brought them wherever you could. I remember all of it. I just am sick about what this... It was so frightening.

I just am so worried about this mom and this boy. And you know what? There's thousands and thousands of situations just like this. Everyone, please. One out of five. That's a huge number. That's a huge number. One out of five that's a huge number oh one out of five mom thank you for being with us i'm hoping that your son has someone he can talk to he does he is set up with counselors wilson's um made a good safety plan for us before we left so we could see what to look for and what to be prepared for, how to prepare the home before he got back there.

And he's actually coming back very quickly since he hasn't been at school. Praise the Lord. And I need to set the record straight. Okay, I'm not, none of this ever came to the public in hopes to blame the teacher for mental illness. I'm not stupid. I know that it's not his fault that the student has mental illness. However, if he felt like that conversation had to go on, and if you read in the original story when they questioned him, he said the kids were talking about it. He went home and watched it. They came back and had a discussion, which means he saw the

warning at the beginning of the show, which should have clued him in to, hey, maybe we should let the parents know before this goes any further, and that was not done. That is the issue. I've had other parents judging me like I'm the worst woman in the world, the worst mother ever out there, and that is simply not true at all. I've done everything that I can for my kids, everything that I can to try to keep them safe, but you do not know everything. If every mother knew everything, we wouldn't be having this talk right now.

Well, I think that a teacher... I've never... I saw people saying that I was trying to get paid. I'm not trying to get paid. I'm trying to save a life, my son's life, and possibly the lives of other people. I can't believe people even said that about you. Don't they understand a mother's love?

They're horrible. They're horrible, and they're adult bullies. But this is what I know. You're saving his life. You are saving his life. And the teacher, if the teacher said, this is a great show, you should check it out, that in itself is a big no-no. I'm sure the teacher said this is a great show you should check it out that in itself is a big no-no i'm sure the teacher didn't mean it to to end up like this but it did and i know you're not

out for money that's a horrible allegation to make against you you're trying to save your son's life and in my eyes exactly in my eyes you're a hero i want to put that number out one more time. The National Suicide Prevention Line, 800-273-8255. And again, if you're not there when a fire starts, who will be there to save your home? With SimpliSafe Home Security, your smoke detectors immediately alert emergency services at the first sign of a fire. Get 10% off your system today at simplisafe.com slash Nancy. That's simplisafe.com slash Nancy. With me, the Florida mom we've been talking about,

and Karen Stark, and my buddy, Ellen Duke. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.