Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mom who lost 2 sons to opioid epidemic talks to Nancy

Episode Date: August 24, 2017

The opioid crisis in the USA has been declared a national emergency, with more people dying from overdoses than car crashes. For Rebecca Savage, it claimed her 2 teenage sons and launched her on a mission. The mother visits with Nancy Grace to discuss her loss and the campaign she is now waging. American Narcan author Dr. William Marrone and psychologist Caryn Stark join the discussion. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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One more time to try it for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Nancy Grace. ZipRecruiter. Thanks so much for being our partner. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Nick and Jack Savage, the two brothers, died two years ago from an overdose of oxycodone and alcohol. Our boys by no means were drug abusers and it was just a poor choice that they made that night. These are kids, they're your next doordoor neighbor, my next-door neighbor. I'm trying to get the point across that you don't have to be a drug abuser to die of an overdose.

This is the real picture of America's opioid crisis, where drugs don't discriminate. It's infesting neighborhoods across the heartland. One bad choice, it can kill you. It is ravaging every single segment of our society. This is a chemical, almost warfare on us. Morgue freezers are overflowing with the bodies of those who lost their battle. Imagine you pouring all your hopes, all your love, all your dreams into your children. You give birth to them, you raise them, you watch them grow, take their first

steps, go to school, turn in to young men or young women as they go through life, and your dreams opioids. One mom describes the agony of losing two teen boys to opioids in one night. Two teen boys, the loves of her life gone in one night. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Rebecca Savage's two boys, Jack and Nick, both die after taking oxycodone at a graduation party. Both dead. She tries.

She tries to revive Jack when she finds him unresponsive in his bedroom. And at the very same time, rescuers were trying to save Nick downstairs. Both gone, just like that, in one night. The CDC, the Center for Disease Control, figures just released revealed a huge spike in overdose deaths in opioids as our nation struggles, struggles to control addiction. And joining me right now is that mom, Rebecca Savage. Also joining me, renowned medical examiner from Madison Heights, Dr. William Maroney, the author of a brand new book available on Amazon that every parent should read, American Narcan, dealing with this exact problem. Also joining us is psychologist from New York, Karen Stark. To all of you, thank you for being with us. First to Rebecca Savage joining us. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story

here on Sirius XM. Thank you for the invite and for allowing me to share Nick and Jack's story with all of you. Rebecca, I know that you have played it over a million times in your mind, but what happened that evening, the evening you lost your two sons? Well, that evening, actually, I had been at graduation parties with my two older boys, and they were leaving that party that we had attended together to go with friends to another graduation party, and I went home. They did check in with me when they got home that night and everything seemed to be okay. Really fireworks kind of hit the next morning when Sunday morning I was doing household chores and had gone in Jack's room to collect some laundry. And I was talking to him about, you know, time to get up,

you know, his dad had things he needed help with today and just, you know, did you have fun last night, just kind of having a conversation and I noticed that he didn't respond and me being a nurse, I went over and I tried to wake him and he did not respond and that's when I went into nurse mode and checked his pulse and started CPR immediately and called for help. So it was a very difficult morning. Rebecca, how was that day any different from every other day? How did they get their hands on drugs? You know, we've played that back in our minds so many times. From what we understand is that it came with somebody else who was at the graduation party, who somebody had brought a bottle of pills. And I don't know where they had gotten them from. And these pills were

being distributed at this party. Again, like I've talked to other people about the dangers of that now, but at that point we hadn't probably had that conversation with our kids about prescription drugs because never in my mind did it ever occur to me that they would take pills that did not belong to them. Yeah, I mean, Dr. William Maroney, I agree. I've talked to the children about drugs and alcohol. And although I don't let them listen to our program, I talk about it in general terms, but I wouldn't imagine talking about taking prescription pills that belong to somebody else. I never thought of that. We have a tremendous problem with the casualness that teenagers and young adults have shared things that previous generations did not share medicine.

This is officially called diversion. It's against the law. And the doctors are not counseling patients that they give these dangerous medicines to to keep them safer. So part of this is on the medical community not guarding and reducing things. But I want to take this time to tell rebecca i'm so sorry for your loss um thank you i have two children i have dedicated my life to stopping drug overdose i i choose heroin because i think it's tearing us up but oxycontin oxycodonecodone, opiate overdose deaths are tearing this country apart. They are reshaping the landscape. And I don't think our local governments,

our states, and our media really understand. The year that your sons passed, we had 52,404 drug overdose deaths in America. And we're on track for 70,000 to 75,000 drug overdose deaths now. People have been saying it's an epidemic this year. It's a pandemic. An epidemic is something on the south side of Cincinnati. An epidemic is in Green Bay, Wisconsin. This is from coast to coast, and not a single family is insulated. In my book, I tell people what are the risk factors that every parent should have Narcan in their home because now 37 states have Narcan-friendly laws, and I'm so sorry that we didn't make the political headway. You know, it

was seemingly a normal day for an Indiana mom of four, Rebecca Savage. It was a Sunday morning, June 14th. She got up that morning and was beginning her day by doing household chores. Her two older boys, Jack, he had just graduated from Penn High School, and Nick, they had gone to parties the night before with their friends. She went in Jack's room and told him it was time to get up, just like we all do with our children, except he didn't respond. He didn't turn over. He didn't say anything. Nothing. No response at all. Rebecca, as she just told you, as a nurse instructor, immediately began CPR, having no idea what was wrong.

911 was called. EMTs raced to the scene and tried their very best. She says she remembers one of them heading down to the basement. At that moment, she didn't know that friends of Nick, who had stayed overnight in the basement, had also called 911 because Nick, too, was unresponsive in the basement. Rebecca loses two of her sons that day. It ended up that Jack and Nick had tried, tried, tested oxycodone at a party the night before.

Both of them overdosed. And with me right now is Rebecca Savage. Rebecca, it actually hurts me to say the facts of what happened knowing that you are listening and that it could cause you pain. When you think back on that morning, what goes through your mind? You know, that morning, I just, I remember thinking over and over again,

what is going on in my house? What happened? What, you know, what's going on? I just was searching for answers, like what could possibly have happened to them? You know, and everything, you know, was a blur. I mean, when I heard them call for a coroner, that's probably about the last real thing that I remember that day. But it's just a bunch of confusion and, you know, trying to figure out what happened. I mean, it's just, it is just unbelievable what do you mean when you say you can't remember exactly what happened well I think you know you're in a

you're in a mindset where you um you're just in um a mode where you're trying to figure out what's happening and take care of your kids. You just go into nurse mode. And, you know, after they had called for a coroner and I realized that, you know, at least one of them had passed away. I think you're just in a state of shock and you really, you know, everything else that happens after that, you're just numb. I mean, let me ask you this. When you say the coroner, the coroner told you that one of them passed away, how did that transpire? Well, I was upstairs and one of the first responders had left Jack and was heading to the basement, which I didn't know for what reason. And I remember yelling at him, you know, don't give up on Jack. He's a fighter, you know, where are you going? And when they came out of the basement, I had heard

somebody say something about we need to call the coroner. And I had a police officer with me that morning, just, you know, trying to keep me calm. And I was screaming at him, did he just call for a coroner? And I just, he's like, yes, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, what is going on? You know, who's for? And he's like, I'm sorry. It was for Nick. And that is just, you just, you can't believe it. It's just, I still sometimes think it's not real. You know, it's just hard to comprehend that. You know, Rebecca, it takes me back to when I realized my fiance was dead.

It was right before a wedding, just before a wedding. And I had been taking an exam that day and was leaving and heading to my job at the library. And I called the library to tell them I was walking to work and I was going to be about 10 or 15 minutes late because the test went long, and they told me to call Keith's family, and I knew right then, I think I knew then that he was dead. I called them, and I asked one question, is Keith gone? And they said yes, and I dropped the phone. It was a pay phone. And I headed out. And I had nowhere to go. And en route home, I saw cars parked outside our local church. I went in.

I hardly remember this. And my pastor called somebody. And I saw him right. I was on the other side of his desk. And I saw him right. It was upside down Bernstein Funeral Home. And that's when I really realized that Keith was dead. When you say, you heard them say, they're calling the coroner,

I cannot even imagine that happening to my child? I'm just trying to take in what you're saying right now. Where were you when that happened? I was still upstairs outside Jack's room, and we had an open foyer, and our basement then went down from there, and I had heard him come up, and that's when he had said it.

So I was upstairs, and I just remember, come up and that's when he had said it. So I was upstairs and I just remember, you know, you're thinking to yourself, this is not real. This cannot really be happening. You know, especially when I didn't know what had happened, why they were in the situation they were in, you know, was it, you know, I didn't know what was going on. So it's just the constant state of confusion of what is happening to your kids. Dr. William Maroney is with me, medical examiner and author out of Madison Heights. His new book, American Narcan, available on Amazon now. Also with me, Karen Stark, psychologist out of New York. First to you, Dr. Maroney,

why is it that people seem to think less of taking a pill than they would of doing a line of Coke or snorting crack or, you know, using heroin? Why do we think, why is the common misconception that it's okay to take pills? The problem starts with the origin of the pill as it's diverted outside of the medical system. The pills continue to bring this idea that it's safe because it's still medicine, but it's being misused. But it started out as medicine made by a company prescribed by a doctor, and that brings an unnecessary gravitas. It says, this is safe. Whereas clandestine drugs imported from other countries, they go through Turkey or China or Thailand people well that's dangerous oh you can't but so there's this safe idea that's a misperception that comes from drugs like this but they're every bit as deadly as heroin. Karen Stark we hear Rebecca saying that

it all seems a blur to her she can't even really remember what happened. The same thing happened to me. Why is that? What is that? Because you're going through trauma. And by the way, Rebecca, I know that my words really can't make a huge difference, but I do want you to know that this is terrible. I am so sorry that you would lose two children.

Just terrible. I am so sorry that you would lose two children. Just terrible. Nancy, as we discussed even with you, you're going through trauma. And when that happens, you disassociate. You're not really in the moment. You can't really perceive what's happening. It does feel like it's not real. There's too much to take into your brain can't deal with it. And so you are sort of going through slow motion. That's what it feels like, that nothing that you're doing is a conscious activity. Like you said, you wound up at the church, you wound up with the pastor, you don't even know how it happened. And that's the state that people wind up being in when confronted with that kind of a situation. I'm talking to a mom, Rebecca Savage, who loses two boys the same day after they experiment at a graduation party for friends with opioid, with OxyContin. Also with me, in addition to Rebecca sharing her story, Dr. William Maroney, renowned medical examiner out of Madison Heights, author of a

new book, American Narcan, now available on Amazon, and my friend and colleague, Karen Stark, psychologist out of New York. You know, Rebecca, as you were describing what happened and how surreal it felt, I think I've told Karen Stark this story before. When it was Keith's funeral, I remember going in and it's just a sickening smell of carnations, of like fake flowers, which to this day I can't stand to smell. And at a distance, I saw just a portion of Keith's profile in the casket. And I passed out right there in the foyer of the funeral home.

I just cannot imagine, Rebecca, how you got through the funeral. I don't know how you did it. Can you even remember it? Bits and pieces. It was extremely difficult, obviously, especially the first time we saw the boys before the funeral with our other two kids. It was extremely difficult. Yeah, you remember bits and pieces of it.

My husband, you know, when you said you passed out, I mean, he passed out when he came home because he had been away with our other two younger kids. And I met him at the door and I told him that they were gone. You know, he passed out. I mean, he just was overwhelmed with grief. I mean, it's just overwhelming. I'm just trying to imagine that moment, Rebecca. I'm just so sorry what you and your family have been through. I'm just, I don't know who it was prescribed to. Like I said, I just heard bits and pieces that it was there was somebody there passing out pills.

And from my understanding, there were a couple of other kids at that party that needed medical attention that had also experimented with that medication. Dr. Maroney, how can that be? Were they bad pills? Did they take too many? How could that happen? Are you more susceptible if it's your first time ever even trying it? Well, there's two things. Number one, these young men were naive. They were not regular opiate users, so they were not tolerant oriate users so they were not uh they were not tolerant or dependent so they naive to the first dose and then if they got an extended release uh product the person who was out there diverting the drugs if they got an extended release well the full effect didn't happen the full peak dose level wasn't released for five, six, seven, eight hours, maybe nine hours later.

And that's why they were able, they took the medicine, they made the decision, and then the drug didn't hit them until later, because that's what an extended drug does to last 20, last 12 hours at a time. So the strength increases over time, is that what you're saying? More of the drug is released so that when it's used for pain management, it'll last 12 hours. And the drug doesn't get released all at once. It slowly reaches a peak at five, six, seven, eight hours, and that's when it hits peak, and that's when they overdose. What we need to do is to talk to our children and have that critical conversation, and then when when it hits peak, and that's when they overdose. What we need to do is to talk to our children and have that critical conversation, and then when they come and go,

we need to say, well, what did you do, and who did you see? And if you have, 37 out of 50 states have naloxone-friendly laws so that we can get the naloxone into the homes. And then when your kids come home, you know, usually with overdoses like this, kids snore. The mothers I have that had children that overdosed, they said, you know, they sounded really tired. They snored. Check on your kids when they come home from parties. And if they're snoring and they're hard to arouse, you have naloxone in the home, you blow it up their nose and call 911. 77% of overdose deaths are unintentional. The people, they didn't mean to do this. They took some pills at a party. People were trying to get high, but 77% are unintentional. So we really need to keep guarding our children.

And my book is a passionate call to arms against the opiates that are sweeping across the country, the prescription opiates that are diverted, and the fentanyl and the heroines, because our systems are paralyzed. The medical schools and the hospitals are really not helping us with the prevention. And that's... Let me ask you, Dr. Maroney, is OxyContin the same thing as Oxycodone? Oxycodone is the generic version of the drug. The molecule is Oxycodone. OxyContin is the extended release. That's the one that you take and it lasts 12 hours because it slowly is released. So that's my bet because that's, in 2015, that's what a lot of the doctors

were prescribing. Rebecca, when you're hearing all this discussion, I mean, it must seem so surreal to you up until that night that they went to the graduation party. Did you have any idea had they ever been in trouble before? Never. What were they like? They were smart kids, popular kids, athletic kids, kids who did community service, were involved in their school and worked in the guidance office at their school. And that's why when I found out what they had taken, it was so shocking

because never have they ever been in trouble for drinking alcohol, you know, drugs, anything. I mean, I don't even think either one of them even got a speeding ticket. You know, they were just kids that followed the rules. And unfortunately, that night, they succumbed to peer pressure and tried something they shouldn't have and paid the ultimate price. What were their personalities? What were they like? Jack was real outgoing, fun, a lot of fun. He always had a smile on his face, and it was always a crooked smile.

He had a crooked smile, and he smiled. And never knew a stranger, just was very, very friendly. Nick was a lot, had the same, you know, a lot of the same personalities that Jack did. More quiet and reserved, but, you know, still adventurous. You know, they had a lot of the same likes and liked hockey. Obviously, they both loved hockey and water sports and hanging out with friends. And the two of them were, you know, probably best friends. So they did a lot of things together.

Do you believe they, I mean, I'm sure you've asked and tried to investigate and find out what happened at the party. Do you think that they did succumb to peer pressure or do you think somebody slipped it in their drink? What do you think happened? You know, I don't know. I would hate to think somebody would slip it into their drink. But I don't know. It's kind of something that isn't readily talked about. Unfortunately, a lot of the kids don't want to be a snitch or a narc and kind of say what had happened. So we really still kind of had that clouded version of what may have happened that night. You know, I'm looking right now at the picture of you, Rebecca, and Jack and Nick.

Nick is standing right beside you and Jack right beside him. I can't tell what this is in the background, but it looks like maybe a game. We were at a concert, actually, in Indianapolis. They were fun. Like I said, they like to do fun things. So that was, we were down in Indianapolis for a concert they are so precious they're just they're just gorgeous one was headed to Indiana's Ball State University in the fall and you've said that Jack never met anybody he didn't like. And he always had that crooked smile on his face.

And he just loved being with his friends. And Nick was more quiet and reserved and very calm. He had just finished his freshman year at Indiana State University where he was studying microbiology and chemistry. They loved hockey and they were very similar because they were so close in age. I'm just looking at your your beautiful family. What effect has this had on your family, Rebecca? Well, it's been devastating. But you know, you just go into protective mom mode. And my focus, you know, obviously was to protect my younger two, you know, and to make sure that they get through this and not suffer as a result of what happened to Nick and Jack. You know, I feel like I live in a constant state of anxiety because I'm so fearful that something may happen

to one of them you know whether it be you know a car accident or oh Rebecca oh Rebecca I do that too I am so convinced you know after Keith was murdered I'm constantly convinced that something is going to take the twins away from me because, you know, for so many years, I just couldn't even let myself. Whenever I'd even try to say wedding, I would say funeral. And when I would try to say funeral, I would say wedding. And I tried not to do it anymore. And I kept it and do you know over 20 years passed and before I could let myself even consider loving and and and having a family and now that I do have the twins I'm constantly afraid somebody is going to take them away. Something's going to happen to them. Something's going to happen to my husband. It's just hearing you say that, how do you find yourself being overprotective of your other children?

I'm constantly checking in with them. I just sent my, our just son off to college. And that was, you know, extremely difficult. You know, you still want him to experience college and have fun. But yet, you know, I couldn't stress enough, you know, like, you know, how much we love him and how important it is to make good choices and to be a good friend. And, you know, I think we've talked about it so much now that he just, you know, as we're in the car, he grabs my arm and he's, Mom, I know. I get it, Mom. I get it.

So, you know, it's just a constant conversation. And with my youngest one, it's the same kind of conversations, you know, but I ask more questions, you know, like, so what friends were at the house you were at, you know, and were their mom and dad home? And what'd you guys do? And, you know, just kind of more in-depth um questions um with them try not to be i mean rebecca when i'm looking i'm looking at a picture of your whole family right now and it looks like you're an ad for now i'm looking at the picture

of you guys at the beach you look like like an ad for like J.Crew or Brooks Brothers. I mean, it's just, it looks like this perfect family. You know, I was talking to a mom the other day whose son was murdered, a little boy, Chucky Mock. And she said that when people find out

her son was murdered by a stranger they treat her differently like she's a bad mom like their family must be you know different somehow because of violence when people find out your boys died from drugs do they i't know, look down on that? I mean, what's been your reaction? Well, I think when people find out, like, they don't want to talk about it, it's kind of like the elephant in the room. And I think, you know, we're more like we want to talk about it. Because it keeps their memory alive. I mean, they were, and they still are our sons. And they made a bad choice. And I feel like the more we do talk about it, then the more life maybe that we can save more, maybe somebody else will start talking about it more because

we're talking about it. Well, actually, after listening to you and Dr. Moroney and Karen Stark, I know that now even at this young age, I need to mention to the twins about pills, actual pills. I mean, I was telling Dr. Maroney, I just had knee surgery a while back, and the doctor sent home, he didn't send home, I was picked up at the pharmacy. I think it was Oxycontin, I can't even remember anymore. And I was so freaked out about having it in the house. I made David flush it down the commode.

We had two prescriptions, flushed them both. I don't know what the other one was. We flushed them both down the commode, threw away the bottle. I just was so nutted up about the whole thing. It's funny how people won't even bring it up to you, Rebecca. Maybe they're afraid that they'll upset you. I think so. I think I think you're right about that. Like, it's kind of hard to talk about that, especially it was such a tragic event. And it still hurts, you know, it's still recent, you know, it still hurts. I think it will always hurt. It will.

I tell, you know, parents that conversations have to be had, you know, you have to talk about it and bring it to the forefront and let them, I mean, start those conversations. Yeah. It's, it's not an easy thing. It's not an easy thing, but it's part of being a good parent. To Dr. William Maroney joining us, author of a new book, American Narcan, that deals with this exact topic. Oxycontin, oxycodone. Now, this is a yes, no, Dr. Maroney. Are they opioid derivatives? Yes.

Okay, wait, wait, wait. I'm working up to something. right yes this is also a yes no heroin is an opioid derivative correct yes and heroin comes from poppies correct heroin comes from poppies but there's some chemical actions to the natural product to make the heroin all right this is what I'm getting at. I've told you this before. I always think of that scene where Dorothy is walking through the big poppy field

and they get sleepy and the witch has put a spell on her and she falls asleep. It's actually the poppies. Anyway, people don't connect that oxycontin and oxycodone are cousins to heroin. And I remember Karen Stark, my husband came home and he was crying. I said, what is wrong, David? And a friend of his that

he had worked with a long time had a son, the golden boy. And I mean that in a good way. It's like I want to say a track star and straight-A student got involved with heroin and accidentally overdosed and died. And they had sent him to one of those boot camps to try to save him. And he came back. He seemed totally clean. Everything was fine. Back on track.

He tried it one more time and OD'd and died. And the father was just numb. I don't know how you deal with that kind of loss, Karen. Well, it never really goes away, as I said to Rebecca. But what Rebecca and her family are doing, that's the best thing that you could possibly do, is to go out there, talk about it, try and do something proactive to prevent it from happening to other children, and to educate people that this is not aspirin, this is not a a cold pill these are the same and have the same

effect as if you were doing heroin or any other kind of um painkiller you know another aspect too at karen stark um rebecca i want to throw this to you rebecca savage joining us, she lost two beautiful boys because of one night at a graduation party where they succumbed to peer pressure and try some pills. According to Dr. Maroney's analysis, the pills were time activated and the Oxycontin didn't kick in until the wee hours. And they both died in one day. Rebecca, I didn't realize it at the time, but I realize it now. When you say, my fiance was murdered. When you say, my son's died of a drug overdose, it somehow puts you in a different category.

People look at you differently. It's like, well, what were they doing wrong? Why did that happen to you? This wouldn't happen to a normal family. That's not true. I mean, I know I'm talking over the radio, but if you could see Rebecca's family, I swear they look like they're out of an ad. We're not different. We're like everybody else. What everybody else doesn't get is it can happen to you. I don't care if you've got a grad degree from Harvard or you're a millionaire. It doesn't matter.

This type of tragedy happens across the boards, Rebecca. Yes. And that's when I go and I talk to people, that's what I'm trying to get across, is that we're just normal people. I mean, we're just average people with good kids who made a bad choice. And that this problem can touch anybody. It's not stereotypical. It can affect anybody's family. So for anyone to say it can't happen to me, that is a dangerous statement to make because it can happen to you. Rebecca, do you feel that either of the boys have tried to communicate with you since they passed on? I do. I, you know, you know,

that's just my own belief. You know, like special things, you know, dreams or, you know, a cardinal here or there, you know, you just see certain things and that you think, you know, maybe that is just them. I do know and I do feel like they would be proud of the efforts that we're putting forth to hopefully save somebody else's life. And like, you know, I've told people before, I can't even think that their story ended the way it did on June 14, 2015. I'm a girl who likes happy endings and stories and books and movies, and I just am going to do my darndest to make sure their story ends in a positive note

where somebody maybe is lifeless because of hearing their tragic story. That's my goal. Rebecca, I've got to tell you how much you are inspiring me. Thank you. I just can't imagine the suffering and the heartbreak that you and your husband went through. To Dr. William Maroney, what is the message to parents listening right now? Right now, the message is our medical system

created part of this problem with lax prescribing and hospitals are paralyzed, medical schools are out of touch, and the lawmakers are about five years behind. Every home needs naloxone, nasal Narcan spray, injectable naloxone. Every home, just like an EpiPen, just like peanut allergies. And my book helps you show that the data in America is driving this problem to become more common than it should be. I've given a passionate call to arms against this death storm sweeping across America. It's not an epidemic. It's a pandemic. It's in Canada. It's not an epidemic. It's a pandemic.

It's in Canada. It's in Costa Rica. It's in Europe. This is happening everywhere. And I share her pain, but this is happening in every state in America. And we need to educate people. And the systems we use to educate have failed us. That's why I put a book out, so that people can get it and see that more people are at risk than you're comfortable sleeping with every night. To you, Karen Stark, what is the message? The message is to be very aware of what's going on with your children, to have open discussions, and to look for signs that there's some kind of change in their behavior. To all of a sudden notice, you know, if you notice that your happy-go-lucky child has become extremely moody or shut themselves off or their concentration's not the same, if their grades have

changed, and you really have to be vigilant when it comes to that, to notice those kinds of details, not to be afraid to talk about it, not to be afraid to explain that this is very different than if you're taking an aspirin, not to combine alcohol with any kind of a drug, to keep that conversation going all the time. Rebecca Savage's Facebook is 525 Foundation. Rebecca, tell me what your message is to all the parents listening right now. My message is to have those conversations and to not tell our kids all the time what they can't do. You can't do drugs. You can't do alcohol. You can't do this. But to arm them with things that they can do, because we as parents know that our kids are going to be faced

with some of these issues at some point. It's just a matter of time. So we need to arm them with avenues of things that they can do when they are approached with something like this. Letting them know that it's okay to go against the grain of peer pressure and, you know, to say no. I'm also having a real big push on cleaning out those medicine cabinets. If you have an unused prescription or an expired prescription to get it out of your house and dispose of them properly. And if you do have the need for the medication in your house,

make sure that you know where it's at and keep it safeguarded so that it doesn't come up missing. Just simple things that we all can do to help fight this issue that we're having in our community. Rebecca Savage is with us. And Rebecca, you just said that you love a happy ending and that you can't believe, you can't accept

that their story is over, that it ended that day in June. Well, I want to tell you, Nick and Jack's story is not over so help me God their story is going on

thanks to you Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend