Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mommy allegedly plots murders of her 2 tot girls on GOOGLE!

Episode Date: September 5, 2018

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You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Who doesn't love Google? Is this movie, fill in the blank, okay for kids? Or guinea pig fleece liners, 2 48 i mean it could be anything but what about how to commit the perfect murder i mean it's he grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us to add insult to injury there is now a claim that an Alaskan mother, a gorgeous young mom actually, Googled how to commit the perfect murder before the death of her two little children.

Just a coincidence. Joining me right now, Jennifer Sikowski. Jennifer, joining us from CrimeOnline.com as an investigative reporter. Jennifer, let's take it from the top. What can you tell me? Who is Stephanie LaFountain? Yes, this is the story of Stephanie LaFountain. And as you said, she's a gorgeous 23-year-old woman. She is from Fairbanks, Alaska, which is the second most populated area in the state, with Anchorage being the first. It's a beautiful city, one that people would dream of living in. Pristine rivers and lakes, gorgeous mountain views. Okay, Jennifer, hold on.

The more I look at her photo of this mom, Stephanie LaFountain, she looks like a sitcom character. And I never had time to watch this, but I've seen my husband watching that 70s show. She looks like a sitcom actress. Perfect skin. Yeah, long, beautiful, chestnut brown hair. Looks like the hombre has gone on at the tips. I don't get it. Why is this woman, why is she looking up how do you commit the perfect murder?

And then a coincidence, which I'm sure Robin Ficker, a defense attorney out of Maryland, and Ashley Wilcott, judge and lawyer, will want to weigh in on the coincidence that she Googles how to commit the perfect murder. And then, who whoops her two children end up dead but again jennifer i've jumped ahead go ahead i'm going to go back about three years ago in september of 2015 according to the fairbanks daily news minor stephanie's first daughter a four-month-old baby girl died after being found not breathing stephanie had called Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.

How long ago was this? So this was in September of 2015. Guys, you are hearing the voice of CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Jennifer Tsikowski. Also with me, high-profile defense lawyer out of the Maryland jurisdiction, Robin Thicker. Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, psychiatrist and author, Dr. Carol Lieberman and forensics expert, Karen Smith. Robin Thicker, before we go one step further, did you hear this actually starts a couple of years ago? Why is it, Robin Ficker? Let's just say this is your client, Stephanie LaFountain, and wherever she goes, children drop like flies.

What a coincidence, Robin. Well, I think we've discovered a way here to solve the crimes in America. You simply go and see who is a hit upon this particular website, how to commit a murder, and you just follow up on every one of those hits and you solve the murders in America. I think that people are going through the web. They're looking at various websites that have something novel or weird. And they go on these websites and look. And it's just a coincidence that anything happens later.

This was a true coincidence. Coincidences happen. That's how we got the word coincidence. Okay. So it's a coincidence that we got the word coincidence. I don't see it that way that one mother is connected to not one but two deaths. But you know what? Let's analyze. So you're saying a couple of years ago, her four-month-old baby girl just wasn't breathing. Is that correct? That is correct. And her death was not ruled a

homicide at the time. Investigators truly believed and thought that this was an isolated tragedy. Jennifer Sikowski, in the very first baby that's found dead, what was the cause of death? The cause of death for the four-month-old, who again was Stephanie's infant, well, I was going to get into that later, but I can tell you she was Stephanie's infant from a prior relationship. And she, the baby girl's death was officially ruled as undetermined, but showed consistency with a suffocation death, police said. Okay, hold on just a moment. Karen Smith, a renowned forensics expert. How can that be that you confuse a smothering death with natural causes? evidence that goes along with it. A lot of times this may be ruled a SIDS, which is a sudden infant death syndrome that doesn't have a particular cause of death. And that may be where they leaned

because it was one infant. You know, it may have been just looked at as a tragic death. Then you have the second one that happened that caused law enforcement to go, hmm, wait a second. Let's look at the first one again. Okay, hold on just a moment to Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, founder of childcrimewatch.com. I disagree because when you have a suffocation, you almost always have hemorrhaged or burst petechiae. Those are the tiny, tiny blood vessels in the eyeballs, in the eyes. Sometimes you can't see the hemorrhaging or the bursting with the naked eye,

but you can see it with an appropriate autopsy. That comes from lack of oxygen. Those blood vessels burst, Ashley, and it's really easy to see an autopsy. That's not a SIDS death. SIDS does not include lack of oxygen. The baby's heart just stops and the child dies. Suffocation is an entirely different thing. Here's what I see all too often working with child fatality review. Frequently, unfortunately, investigations stall out, meaning they think it looks like SIDS, looks like, well, this baby stopped breathing. That happens. And they don't necessarily take it a step further to say, wait, we still need to see what the cause of death was. Perhaps it wasn't SIDS. So unfortunately, nationwide, that happens where the autopsy is not done. There's a belief that the parents credible that this was a horrible, horrible tragedy, which does happen with SIDS.

Right. It is a real thing. And then they don't investigate further. Now, I don't know if that's what happened in this case or not, but I see it all the time. Well, another thing that you just mentioned, Ashley Wilcott, is dead on. To Dr. Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist and author of Lions and Tigers and Terrorists, oh my. Dr. Carol, when you have a child and to the naked eye, the child looks like it just simply quit breathing and you've got a loving mother calling 911, you know, what's not to believe? I assume they just didn't perform the full-on autopsy dr carol yes because the mom seems so loving incredible yes that can be uh be very effective on the

mother's part because you know the police or the people investigating don't want to add more tragedy by by blaming the mother you know it seems like oh how can I how can I blame her when she's so this is such a tragedy for her. But it's so interesting that this mother, obviously, she you know, the similarity in both cases, besides the children, how the children died, is that she didn't have a man in the picture. The first one, it was a prior relationship. She wasn't married to him. The second one, her husband was in the military, and he was deployed at the time when the child died, and then they got divorced. So it seems like she wanted to be rid of this responsibility of a baby

and to go on and meet another guy. You know, I don't understand why another guy is so often the issue. Take a listen to this. What we know is this is just an unimaginable tragedy. We have two infants, we have two babies that were killed by their mother. How do we even imagine that? How do we, as a justice system, how do we make this right? And unfortunately, there's just nothing we can do to make this right,

to make it better. But we know that we'll do what we can within the justice system to provide some type of closure and some type of peace. Warning. Property protected by electric fence. Sharks sighted in water. There are a lot of warnings you don't want to miss. Bridge out. Especially when it comes to your identity and the personal information on your devices. That's why new LifeLock Identity Theft Protection now adds Norton Security for more protection than ever. LifeLock uses

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...could be dangerous. Join now and get 10% off your first year, plus a $25 Amazon gift card with annual enrollment. Just go to LifeLock.com and enter promo code NEWS. Terms apply. New LifeLock with Norton. More detection, more protection. These are two murders that occurred over both in 2015 and 2017.

Last year, nine months ago, and then in 2015, that we've never discussed. That was just something that was necessary based on the investigation. We didn't talk about that. Never discussed? Does that mean there never was an investigation when the first baby died? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, Karen Smith, Dr. Carol Lieberman, Ashley Wilcott, Robin Ficker, and Jennifer Tsikowski. To you, Jennifer, sounds like no one really looked into the first death where the little baby, just a four-month-old infant girl, was found not breathing. That death was not ruled a homicide. But then fast forward 24 months, another dead baby girl found in the care of mommy. What happened the second time around? Correct. So about two years later, authorities received a 911 call from Stephanie saying that her 13-month-old child, also an innocent baby girl, wasn't breathing.

Fast forward to last November, which is about two years after her first baby died. Once again, authorities received a 911 call from Stephanie saying that her 13-month-old child, also an innocent baby girl, was not breathing. In addition to dialing 911, she also called family members of her ex-husband, who, by the way, was not the father of her first child, and neither men had been identified by police. According to online records, she divorced the father of her second child in February, which is about three months after the second baby died. Her ex-husband was in the military, and he was away serving our country in Iraq. Police say that his family members arrived,

so they must have had a good relationship with Stephanie's bill, and they were performing CPR on the baby when officials arrived. Unfortunately, though, this wasn't enough, and the toddler died. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Who was performing CPR on the baby? Her ex-husband's family members. Her ex-husband, who was deployed in northern Iraq, his family members. Okay, all right, go ahead. Okay, so unfortunately, like I said, this wasn't enough. This innocent toddler died at a local hospital four days later. So, of course, you know, this is when the red flags went up for detectives because now they had two babies dead in only about a two-year time frame

who appeared to die in the same manner. And when they began investigating the toddler's death, the 2015 case of the infant's death was reopened. The investigation was kept on a down roll until, you know, just recently, days ago, in order not to hinder their work. And, you know, well, wait a minute, this is what I don't understand. Robin Ficker, a renowned defense attorney joining me out of the Maryland jurisdiction. What I don't understand is that when the four-month-old baby girl died in 2015, reportedly found not breathing, that baby's death was not ruled a homicide,

but it was her cause of death was consistent with being smothered. I don't understand because if they had accurately and appropriately investigated that death, we wouldn't have a dead 19-month-old baby girl, right? So the failure to investigate and prosecute the first infant murder, infanticide, has led to another dead child. And who knows what abuse the child suffered in her short 19 months at the hands of mommy. So what happened, Robin Ficker? Well, mothers pass on the same genes, the same physical makeup to their various children. Obviously, the first child had a physical defect because of the sudden infant death syndrome, and the same defect was innate in the children. You have to give the presumption of innocence to mothers that nurture, bear their children

for nine months, and then nurture them. They don't kill children generally, but physical defects are passed on to the mother's various children by the mother. It's the same mother here. These are not random children. They have the same genes from the same mother, the same physical problems and defects. Well, okay, if you're telling me that the two dead babies inherited some type of defective gene from mommy. Why is it, Ashley Wilcott, mommy's alive and well? Okay, but the babies are dead.

I don't even know what gene he could possibly be talking about. What, the gene where you end up, your mom strangles you dead? That gene? Okay, so let's just discuss. First of all, yes, absolutely there are genetic reasons, unfortunately, that children do die. We know that. In this particular case, there's... Why are you even talking about a genetic problem? They were smothered dead. You can tell from the autopsy. case, there's no, absolutely no evidence at all. There was no genetic defect. She has killed both of these children. And I have to say this, Nancy. So I've seen cases again, where it's a drug house and a parent who's on drugs, clearly on drugs, rolls over, suffocates a baby. And guess what?

There's no investigation. Nothing is followed up with that. And they say, oh, the baby just died. The baby just didn't die. These two children just didn't die. The mother killed both of these children. Weigh in, Dr. Carol Lieberman. Well, yes, there are reports that show that there was no physical reason. The babies were healthy. And so, you know, that doesn't fly in this case. And, you know, it's interesting because the mother saw that it worked with the first baby. She got away with it. And so then when the same, when it worked with the first baby she got away with it and so then when the same when she decided that the second baby was too much of a burden for her too so she tried the same thing again you mean they were healthy up until this point yes yes

that there was no physical reason right yeah you're absolutely right there was no physical reason. This is what the Fairbanks Police Chief, Eric Jues, said. Just take 10 seconds and think about a mother killing both her children over two years, completely isolated events, and what that means and what happens sometimes in our community and sometimes just the evil that exists that's out there. Just take 10 seconds and think about a mother killing both her children over two years in completely isolated events. Okay, first baby killed in 2015, the second baby killed in the last few months. He says, and what that means and what happens sometimes in our community, and think about that sometimes evil exists.

That is out there. Now, according to Anchorage Daily News, LaFountain called 9-1-1 in 2017. The end of 2017, LaFountain called 9-1-1 claiming her 13-month old daughter wasn't breathing, called her husband's family. They rushed to the home and started CPR. The child was rushed to the hospital, airlifted to another hospital. She died four days later. I wonder what abuse this child had endured in her short life because it's my experience too. Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta judge and lawyer and founder of childcrimewatch.com. Ashley, you don't just suddenly graduate to murder. You lead up to it. I guarantee you that these children had been abused during their

short lives before they were murdered. Oh, I absolutely agree. And if you don't want children, if a parent doesn't want children and is going to plan to murder, they're going to hurt the children, abuse the children, neglect the children all through the children's life because they don't want them in the first place. So I agree with you. This was not a first instance. Who knows what these two children have gone through at the hands of the mother and suffered. Take a listen to this. hours and we've estimated that if we printed this report out it would be over a hundred thousand pages that's the amount of work that goes into a case like this that no one sees and that we don't talk about and so um you know it is just incredible and so the amount of work the excellence of the investigation the entire city of fairbanks just owes our detectives a big round of thanks.

We've estimated that if we printed this report out, it would be over 100,000 pages. That's the amount of work that goes into a case like this that no one sees and that we don't talk about. Two babies dead. One 4 months, one 13 months old. Both baby girls and quite the coincidence, their mother, Stephanie LaFountain, always seems to be hovering around when the babies are found dead. In fact, she's the one that raises the alarm, but then comes the investigation. Cops only think to investigate when there's a second dead body. I guess because it's a baby, it just doesn't matter. It just doesn't warrant a homicide investigation. Even though in the first death, all the signs were there in autopsy of suffocation death.

And that meant nothing to anybody in that jurisdiction. But finally, we learn that police look at mommy's computer. And there they find search terms like this quote how to commit the perfect murder quote ways to suffocate quote ways to kill human with no proof quote best ways to suffocate quote 16 steps to kill someone and not get caught. Quote, can drowning show in an autopsy report? Quote, drowning and forensics. And quote, suffocating and smothering. Now, if that is not a smoking gun to Karen Smith, forensics expert. I don't know what is. Karen, how do authorities, police, FBI

go about searching your computer? Let's just say you deleted it all. How do they find it? It's not deleted. They have data mining tools that can go in and find the cache that everybody has on their computer. Frankly, you can delete everything and law enforcement has ways of finding it. We can dig deep and probe deeply into your computer and find exactly the search engines that you were using, when you searched it, how you searched it, and how deep you went into each website. It's really mind-boggling to me, hearing what you've said at the first investigation of the four-month-old, that all the signs were there of suffocation and no law enforcement followed up on that. That's mind-boggling to me, because in my experience, if you have a dead infant like that, you're going to do a full autopsy, you're going

to do a full investigation. Now, it is common for law enforcement to give the benefit of the doubt to a grieving mother. That's not unusual. What is unusual is if you have autopsy findings that come back in contradiction to that, you need to follow up. So between that and the search engine, I am just baffled as to why the first infant's death wasn't looked into further. I want to go out now to Dr. Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist and author of Lions and Tigers and Terrorists. Oh, my. Dr. Carroll,

clearly police, not police, but the coroner was not convinced, even though the signs indicated the first baby died of lack of oxygen to the brain, which is suffocation. If they had bothered to look at the eyeballs, they would have realized the child had been suffocated. It's, I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD, and I can tell you that much. But here, the smoking gun in my mind is how mommy just imagined the baby's in the next room asleep, and mommy's hunched over Google. You know, I can just see the iPad glowing in the dark, looking up best ways to suffocate, 16 steps to kill someone and not get caught. You know what, Dr. Carol, when I do something that I know is wrong, I'm sure I do plenty that I don't even know is wrong every day. It makes me feel hot all over. I feel hot. I wake

up in the night feeling hot. I mean, like really hot. It's like my skin's on fire. I don't feel like eating. I feel bad. I think about it, what I did, you know, how bad it was. I can't even imagine sitting there in the dark, hunched over my iPad, looking up 16 steps to kill someone and not get caught. How do you do that? Well, she obviously doesn't have the same sense of ethics and what's right and wrong as you do. But you know, she also must not watch a lot of crime shows on TV or even the news for that matter. I mean, you kind of have to be under a rock to not realize that the police or investigators

can find what's on your computer. I mean, there have been so many stories, so many cases where that is what implicated the person who killed the other person. And she obviously didn't know that or didn't care about that. She was just intent on, somehow she thought she just wasn't going to get caught because she didn't get caught the first time. So she felt like she was home free. With me, Jennifer Sikowsky, investigative journalist with CrimeOnline.com, where you can find this story as well as all other breaking crime and justice news. Jennifer, weigh in. If they had investigated the first baby's death, would they have found the same Google searches

for the first baby as well? And I guess going back to your guest, Karen, just curious, would they be able to go that far back and look at the Google searches from the first baby's death in 2015? Or is that far too long? Yes, you can go back and mine the computer practically as far back as long as you've had it. You get the hard drive of the computer. You search the memory. So much is also stored in the cloud. But long story short, I've stupidly given the answer to so many people. If you want to get something off your computer,

you might as well just go put it in the driveway and drive over it several times or beat it with a hammer or a shovel. Because as long as that hard drive exists, you can look back really in perpetuity almost as long as you've had the computer. You can go back and search. So I'm wondering, did they search then? Another issue, I'm glad you brought that up, Jennifer Sikowski. Ashley Wilcott, did you know that the timing also is very critical? Because when they did that search and they found how to commit the perfect murder, ways to suffocate, ways to kill human with no proof. The 911 call was about an hour after some of these Google searches.

So clearly she was, in my mind, doing the search. Then she suffocated the baby based on what she found. And then she suffocated the baby based on what she found, and then she called 911. Based on the timing, I mean, in answer to Jennifer Skowski's question, not only can you find the search, you can find the time and the date of the search. And thank goodness, because that's exactly what the prosecution is going to use, as you well know, to prove that it was premeditated, which it was in this case. So we can actually get a conviction. Because the other piece of that, Nancy, is that so important to remember is, I don't believe in coincidence. I don't believe somebody's going to case so we can actually get a conviction. Because the other piece of that, Nancy, is that's so

important to remember is I don't believe in coincidence. I don't believe somebody's going to Google how to murder an infant with no, you know, no symptoms or how to get away with murder. I don't believe that people Google that just because they have a weird sense of, I want to hear about this and kind of quirky. I believe you only do that if you really have an intent. So that goes to prove her intent and premeditation of this murder. To you, Robin Ficker, I can't wait to hear this. Have you ever considered a career as a fiction writer? I want to hear how you explain for your client that she's looking up how to commit the perfect murder, ways to suffocate, does drowning show in an autopsy, and one hour later, after these Google searches,

she calls 911 and her baby's dead? She was trying to figure out why her child was in the state it was. And she's not a lawyer. She's not a psychiatrist or an expert. She's just a layperson, and she thought maybe she could get some hints from various websites. She didn't go on WebMD, but she went on this particular site figuring maybe she could get some hints as to why her child was in such a state.

It's just going on the Internet, surfing the Internet, as I do every day, going on sites, interesting sites, it doesn't mean that there necessarily is a connection between your actions and what you're looking at. At all, she's, maybe she was trying to figure out what happened here. We have a family, of course, of a baby that has suffered in obscurity, in silence that no one knew. They were all alone in this whole process. And no one knew about it.

And that's a tough situation to be in. A young mother now accused of murdering two infant girls, a four-month-old and then one year later, a 19-month-old baby girl. Joining me, Karen Smith, Dr. Carol Lieberman, trial judge, lawyer, and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, Ashley Wilcott, renowned defense attorney out of Maryland, Robin Ficker, and CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Jennifer Czajkowski. Jennifer, where does it stand right now? Stephanie LaFountain now charged in the murders of two children. What are the charges against her?

So Stephanie was arrested and charged with one count of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder. She is being held at the Fairbanks Correctional Center. She was reigned in court with bail set at $2 million. We know that Stephanie LaFountain, the mom in this case, will not ever face the death penalty as Alaska abolished the death penalty. They've never had the death penalty, so that's not an issue. I'm curious, Robin Ficker, if she is convicted in that jurisdiction, what sentence do you think she's looking at? Well, if she's convicted, she's looking at a wrong

sentence, unfortunately. I mean, that's the reality of it. We want to discourage people killing their children. And it's a sad thing. But I don't think the jury is going to convict here because coincidences happen. Some mothers have children that are born with six toes. There was a physical defect in this child, and I think we need to get an expert to really analyze these children and the autopsy. You know, another question, of course, I'm completely ignoring what Ficker said about a child with six toes. I don't know where this comes from with Ficker, but I guess Ficker, if I were charged with double murder, I'd hire you. To Dr. Carol Lieberman, another issue is that the men involved in this scenario, we know that on one occasion she had just been divorced. Do mothers lash out on the children when they're angry at the dad?

And what is that phenomenon? Well, you know, we sort of don't know so much about the first father, just that that was a prior relationship. But with the second one, he was deployed. He was not there. They got divorced after. But, you know, a defense attorney will most likely try to say that this was postpartum depression. That's going to be her defense. I mean, if I was the expert witness called in, I would try to find evidence of her having postpartum depression. And that seems like that would be the most likely or the defense that would have the most chance of being persuasive to the jury. I'm looking at the actual police report and it says the autopsy results and medical records for both children show they were entirely healthy with no genetic abnormality. So there goes your theory, Robin

Ficker, that the mom passed down some genetic abnormality and somehow you dragged in the theory of six toes. Oh, how I wish I were in court with you right now. So, Robin Ficker, the autopsy reveals there are no genetic abnormalities, no diseases, no injuries. The children are, quote, entirely healthy. Well, I think that the person that did that study probably had certain leanings toward convictions and wasn't looking for abnormalities as my expert would. I would find someone who knew how to look for abnormalities,

who was experienced in finding abnormalities, and would find abnormalities, which I would present to the jury. I was wondering what your fallback was going to be. It's like in a rape case. First of all, the perp says, I didn't do it. Then the perp, when confronted with DNA, says, it was consensual. Then when it turns out that the victim is bruised and has the defendant's DNA under her fingernails, it degenerates into, oh, she wanted rough sex.

And finally, she had on a short skirt and a low-cut blouse, and she's on the birth control pill. That's how that goes. That's the textbook in rape defense. Robin Ficker, you've just taught me a lot, actually, about how this case will be defended. You go from accident to genetic abnormality to the coroner did not look for genetic abnormalities and now it's too late you know i could see how you would put a doubt not a reasonable one but a doubt in somebody's mind jennifer zakowski uh crimeonline.com investigative reporter luckily the medical examiner in this case the second time around did cover all the bases and look for genetic mutations he certainly

did and the autopsy results and medical records for both babies showed that they were entirely healthy with no genetic abnormalities no diseases and no injuries well we've also got the mo let me ask you about that to dr carberman, it's like history repeating itself. You know, there's a theory that people do the same things over and over and over. And the only insane thing is thinking there'll be a different outcome. Check this out, Dr. Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist and author. In both circumstances, she did exactly the same thing. She waits till she's at home alone with the child.

Then she calls to say the child isn't breathing. Exactly the same words. Then she calls the family. Then she stands by while everyone rushes into the scene to try to do CPR. It's the very same, the exact same scenario over and over, Dr. Carroll. Yes, absolutely. And to go to a point you were saying earlier, it could still be that this was partly that she was angry at these men, maybe for not giving her enough attention, for not being there with her, for she felt might have felt

abandoned and so on. You know, how do you like that thing where she calls the family of her husband, the second baby, to come over and do CPR? If you don't do CPR within six minutes, that baby is brain dead or a person is brain dead. So why would you wait until you call somebody? Was she doing CPR in the meantime? You know what? There's no indication she did anything to revive the child. And what we are learning, according to her LinkedIn page, is LaFountain had been working at the deli department at a local grocery store since about 2011. She had just divorced, according to court records.

She has just these two children. We have no reason to believe her ex-husband, the soldier, the father of the 13-month-old, had any knowledge of the crime. Now, when she appeared over closed-circuit TV, she was just arraigned in the last days, she was wearing an anti-suicide smock. I doubt, I'm looking at it right now, I doubt pretty seriously that this woman is going to try and commit suicide i mean if she were that distraught why would she have killed the second baby uh dr carol this woman isn't going to kill herself she killed these two babies for a lifestyle she didn't want children anymore it's like

tot mom times two um yeah uh it doesn't she does not seem to, to be, I mean, she seems like she's trying to get everybody's sympathy and attention just like she was all along. Hey, Dr. Carroll, is this like Munchausen by proxy type thing and she just went a bridge too far? Well, no, because, um, she would have been, she would have had to have been taking the babies to doctors in order for it to be Munchausen by proxy. There didn't seem to be any evidence of that. She is now charged in the two homicides of her infant daughters.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart podcast