Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mommy & Daddy 'find' infant daughter dead, call lawyer before 911!

Episode Date: October 19, 2018

Little Mary Welch died of neglect and starvation, but her father admitted to an emergency dispatcher that he called his lawyer for advice before dialing 911 after finding the baby dead in her bed. Seth Welch and his wife Tatiana Fusari now face murder charged for their daughter's death. The 10-month-old girl reportedly weighed only 8 pounds at the time of her death. Nancy Grace looks at the case with psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, juvenile judge & lawyer Ashley Willcott, private investigator Vincent Hill, and Crime Stories reporter John Lemley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's about an hour and a half. I called my lawyer first thing to ask what's the next thing I could do. And they said wait until they're here to call the police and get that going. Okay. So you found the child an hour and a half ago? Yeah. And called your lawyer first, correct? Yes. Okay. Okay. You find your child dead, but you pause before you call 911. You wait 90 full minutes, an hour and a half before you call 911. Did you hear the dispatcher asking? Did you just say you called

your lawyer first? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. This guy, Seth Welch, and his wife, Tassiana Fusari, are under suspicion when their 10-month-old baby girl, Mary Welch, weighing only 8 pounds at 10 months old, is found dead. Hey, let's take another listen to that 911 call. When was the last time you had contact with a child? Last night, about yesterday afternoon, about 3 p.m., you know, she goes to bed. And, you know, that was that. Okay, so you put her to bed yesterday at 3 p.m.? Yeah, and then this morning at like 10, something, we into check on her and was like okay it's been way too long so um yeah

he's been gone as long as normal all the time so So you're saying it's normal for your children to sleep from around 3pm to 10am? Uh you know usually about 9, 9.30 yeah so Okay, let me just tell everybody that's not normal for a baby at that age to sleep 10 straight hours without wanting a bottle, without wanting to be nursed, without wanting anything, not to poop its pants and want a fresh diapy, nothing. Joining me right now, in addition to Vincent Hill, cop turned private eye, who is kicking off a brand new podcast on Apple iTunes called Fall of a Titan. Vincent Hill joining me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA Secco Analyst joining

us, Ashley Wilcott, judge and lawyer, and right now, John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. John Limley, tell me exactly what happened here, because first of all, I'm not buying anything he's saying on the 911 call. Well, the voice we've been hearing, Nancy, is again that of Seth Welch. He and his wife, Tatiana Fusari, had been raising three children and they ran Black Acre Farm Products at their home. They're just about an hour and a half north of Grand Rapids. They had a simple, modest home. For some time, Seth Welch had been displaying his faith on hand-painted signs that were nailed to trees on the fence out front. There's one message that still says, repent, believe, obey.

Now, there's absolutely, of course, nothing wrong with any of that. Oh, wait, stop right there. You know who you sound like, Jerry Seinfeld. Oh, no. Dr. Bethany Marshall. That's not an oh, no. The man's rolling in money. Well, that's not an oh no, the man's rolling in money. Well, that's true. He's got a gorgeous wife, half his age, a beautiful family,

probably lying in his penthouse flicking channels right now. There's nothing wrong with being Jerry Seinfeld. Plus, he's hilarious. Dr. Bethany, remember when on Seinfeld, they would say something that somebody had done outrageous, and they'd go, not that there's anything wrong with that. That's exactly what Lindley just did that's what he did it's funny that i sound are you bethany marshall no you're not bethany marshall you're john limley okay bethany marshall that question's for you yes that was the tone that john limley had i can verify that but i will say there's

something interesting about the signs because when i read all the reports on this story, the father cited religiosity for not getting medical treatment for his children. And apparently that wasn't just for the baby, but it was for the other two children in the home as well. So in this case, religiosity was intertwined with suspicion of the medical system. Also, according to one report, the parents did not like doctors because apparently one doctor filed a child abuse report against them. I bet they didn't like doctors after that. First of all, number one, I have never been accused of being a Bible scholar. Okay, I can tell you right now, I know nothing, but I do know one thing. You know what Christ hated the most is a hypocrite. Oh, N O. Um, as a matter of fact, that's the only time I know of ever that he got mad uh is when that i know of is uh when he

came to the temple and people were whoring it out selling things you know like it was you know concert or right and he got mad and actually threw over at a time when it was very politically combustible would kick over all those changing tables, money tables, and threw a big fit. Say, they were hypocrites. So here, with this guy claiming he's a Christian by posting all these signs, hey, I'm down with the signs. Go right ahead.

I'd be mad if you didn't. But to then let your child die. And my second clarification, correct me if I'm wrong, John Limley, but this child did not die of lack of medical attention of some illness such as pneumonia or scarlet fever. This child died of starvation. That is absolutely correct, Nancy. There was a huge distrust. I also don't like the way you just said Nancy. Go ahead, Nancy. Go ahead, whatever. You're all mad because I called you on the carpet, but that's fine. I didn't expect to be named Miss Congeniality. Okay, as we've noted, they did not like the doctors. They had a huge distrust of Child Protective Services. He online would rail on about how he and his wife distrusted all of them. One particular video, a lot of people would refer to these videos as sermons. He says someone had called CPS, Child Protective Services, about him when he first

refused to get his oldest daughter vaccinated and that he didn't get his other two, including his youngest 10-month-old Mary, vaccinated. I really want to quote one of his Facebook posts. It's really telling. And I quote, it didn't seem smart that you would be saving people who weren't the fittest. And it continues, if evolution believes in survival of the fittest, why are we vaccinating everybody? Shouldn't we just let the weak die off and let the strong survive? Okay, you just ran chills down my arms, John Lumley. To even say that and think of how this little baby laid there and starved in her crib. And know it all, Jackie Howard here in the studio

has corrected my timeline as well, pointing out the baby did not sleep 10 hours, but by this guy's own word, she's over. I saw you counting on your fingers, by the way. It's not like you did this in your head. 19 hours this baby slept, and the dad said that's normal. But speaking of the whole anti-vaxxer thing, listen to our friend at Wood TV 8, Grand Rapids, Ken Kolker, and this nutjob. He says CPS got called on him when he at first refused to get his oldest daughter vaccinated

and that he did not get the shots for his other two kids, including Mary. It didn't seem smart to me that you would be saving people who weren't the fittest. If evolution believes in survival of the fittest, well, then why are we vaccinating everybody? Shouldn't we just let the weak die off and let the strong survive? He also spoke against worldly things. I would love to see a commune of Christian disciples living off the grid somewhere and just living free. The couple called 911 on Thursday after finding their baby unresponsive at their home on Algoma Avenue in Solon Township. An autopsy found the baby died of malnutrition and dehydration. Today, the judge

ordered them to stay in jail without bond. Every day we hear about, read about, see it online, a child missing. Over 450,000 children are reported missing every year. One in seven so-called runaways are not runaways. They are victims of child sex trafficking, whether we want to admit that's happening right under our noses or not. It is, according to police, that actually find the children and make these statistics. But what do you do if the worst case scenario happens, the unthinkable, if your child goes missing or a child that you love goes missing, your neighbor's child, what do you do? Freeze and do nothing? I have an answer.

Go to crimestopshere.com. Experts, survivors have all joined together to bring you action information in the form of a brand new online education master course, a five-series set of videos, Justice Nation Crime Stops Here. How do you protect what you love the most? Find out at crimestopshere.com or nancygrace.com. Use promo code Nancy for 15% off. Please know my proceeds going to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and Class Kids to help save missing children. Yeah, she basically eats and, you know, she's off for a half hour after that and then she goes home for bed. Okay. And how old are the other children? Four and two. There are two older children?

Yep. And they're at home right now, right? Yep. And you said when you found her, she was already believed to be deceased, right? Yeah. And that's when you consulted with a lawyer? Yep. Do you believe she was beyond help already?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that is our answer. We are taking your calls, 909-49-CRIME, 909-492-7463. You are hearing more of this nut job, Seth Welch's 911 call. Let's go straight out to the lines. Joe in Florida. Hi, Joe. What's your question? Don't you think that that father belongs in a mental institution? He's crazy. And the wife belongs with him because she's putting up with it or abetting him. Let me ask you a question, Joe, in Florida. Do you, by chance, have a law degree?

No. Okay, let me ask you a question. When you say he's crazy, do you mean in the legal sense or do you mean it in the vernacular, in the street talk? Oh, you're crazy. Do you mean he's legally insane? I think it could likely be closer to be legally insane in terms of... Okay, hold on. That's just a yes, no. Joe in Florida, if he were insane,

why would he call his lawyer first if he's insane? Good question. Well, then answer it. If you think he's insane and you're throwing that out there, why do you think he called his lawyer first? Well, I think his insanity is sort of selective. You know, Joe, I appreciate that, but please don't give the defense bar any new theories. Selective insanity. Actually, I would love to argue that in front of a jury, that he has selective insanity. He goes on and on with these posters that he has in the yard. He has written along a fence he has out there. He's got a home. He's raising a family. He knows enough to do online videos. He says to 911, the baby was, quote, dead as a doornail. Dead as a doornail.

He's talking about an eight-month-old baby girl dead as a doornail. His words, not mine, Joe, in Florida. Still think he's crazy or just mean? He's a mental case. That's all I can believe because, you know, I hate to use the term evil, but... Why? Why do you hate to use the term evil? What are you, an intellectual that doesn't believe in good and evil?

No, I believe in good and evil, but it's more than him just being evil. That's too easy a caption to put on him. He just lacks humanity. That's what easy a caption to put on him. He just lacks humanity. That's what the problem is. Well, lacking humanity, FYI, Joe, in Florida, lacking humanity does not rise to the level of insanity. Joe in Florida, don't go anywhere. Joining me right now, Ashley Wolcott, judge, lawyer,

and founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Ashley, welcome. Joining me with Ashley is Dr. Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, cop turned PI, and John Limley, crimeonline.com investigative reporter. To Ashley, this guy's not crazy. He even told 911 he called his lawyer first and his lawyer told him to, quote,

call police and, quote, get that going. Yeah. He says his baby is as dead as a doornail and that she also slept. Slept, Jackie. Go ahead. 19 hours. Thank you, calculator Jackie.

19 hours and that was normal. Also important, Ash, we keep saying that his religious belief did not allow him to seek medical treatment. She didn't die of an illness. She died of starvation. That is torture. And add to that, he made the comment, it is what it is. Another day, all of those things add together to murder. It's child abuse. And that child abuse resulted in the death of an infant. There's no insanity. There's no remorse.

There's no compassion. And hopefully this man never has another child because he just murdered this one. Absolutely. Dr. Bethany Marshall, can you please straighten out Joe in Florida? And I think John Limley is jumping on the insanity bandwagon, too. Well, this whole selective insanity, actually, I do hope that doesn't get into the hands of defense attorneys because it sounds pretty good because he selectively called his attorney, which implies that he knows right from wrong. But then the way he talks to the dispatcher, which is on a recorded line, is as if he has no idea what he's just done. You know, most mental and psychological disorders have many components. And I would say the underlying component for this one is that he's probably very sociopathic, which is a disorder of detachment. He is not attached to his child.

He said he says she's as dead as a doornail. He talks about he talks to the dispatcher as if he's reporting a fender bender. I called, you know, I called the police. I called my my attorney and that, you know, now I'm taking pictures of the fender. It's pictures of the fender or the bumper. Now it's just another day. So on some level, he does not grasp the severity of what he has just done and what's in store for him, which implies he has no cause and effect thinking. He has no anxiety about what he's just done. He has no sense of loss, grief, or mourning for the child. All of this religiosity reminds me of a budding cult leader. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other forms of abuse going on in that household, perhaps sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse,

torture. I think that when the investigators go into this household, they may find a house of horrors. So I'm interested to know as this story unfolds just what else is going on in that household. To Vincent Hill, cop turned private investigator and hosting a brand new podcast called Fall of the Titan at Apple iTunes. I'm really looking forward to hearing that, Vincent, by the way. But I want to get back on this little girl, Mary. You know, we keep saying that he was exercising his freedom of religion by not using doctors. I don't like that. That's taking a swipe at a whole group of people that really believe that they can heal their body's mind over matter. Now, do I agree with that?

No. Do I think it's possible? Maybe. But that's not what happened I think it's possible? Maybe. But that's not what happened here. This is not religious freedom. He let the baby starve. He and the wife, Tosiana Fusari. So there is no freedom of religion issue here. It's not not taking the baby to the doctor. It's letting the baby starve it, Vincent. How do you prove this case? Yeah, Nancy, the thing is, this isn't a day's work. It takes days, sometimes weeks, to starve to death, even for a little baby. And this guy has his David Koresh complex.

He's just making all of these videos and all of this stuff. But I think the dispatcher was so smart, Nancy. No one's touched on this yet, but you hear this dispatcher asking specific questions because he knows the lines are being recorded and he knows this will come back when this goes to trial. So that dispatcher did an amazing job of getting that information and basically getting somewhat of a confession out of this sicko. Not in the legal sense, he's just sick in his mind because he just thinks he's above everyone else. Last Thursday afternoon,

officers were called to a Cedar Springs home after her father said he found his daughter dead in her crib. Then on Friday, the father and his wife, the 10-month-old baby girl's mother, were both arrested on counts of child abuse and murder. 13 On Your Side's Emma Nicholas was in court today when the parents were charged. She joins us now live with more. Emma? Tatiana Fusari and Seth Welch are currently in Kent County Jail since their arrest on Friday, and that's where they were arraigned from together on Monday afternoon on charges of first-degree child abuse and first-degree murder due to malnutrition and dehydration. Welch's jaw dropped when he heard the charges could lead to possible life behind bars without parole. What exactly led up to the 10-month-old baby Mary Ann Welch's death

is still unclear, but the responding officer noted in his report that the baby's cheeks and eyes were sunken in, and when the autopsy came back on Friday confirming that the baby received poor care, they were arrested. Now during their arraignment, Fusari did ask for a PR bond so she could work her full-time job, but the judge denied that request. Our felony murder, both carrying life imprisonment, you know, the court wants to make sure, particularly life without parole, that we've covered every aspect of this to protect our community, to protect our society, first and foremost to protect any other children that would be in your care and your guidance. You are hearing from our friends, 24-hour News 8. Straight out to John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Tell me about the charges. These charges are

homicide. That is the ruling by the coroner. Dr. David Start, the forensic pathologist who performed the autopsy, said that the girl died of malnutrition associated with dehydration due to neglect of adult caregivers. And it's very interesting. We heard a little bit about this, the shock of the deputies from that Kent County Sheriff's Office when they responded to that 911 call that was eventually placed. A deputy noted that the infant's eyes and cheeks were sunken into her head. She was not breathing and that she was cold to the touch. She was pronounced dead right there at the scene. According to the assistant prosecutor Kim Richardson, quote, the baby looked like a hundred-year-old baby, all skin and bones. To the founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta judge and lawyer. Ashley, what about it? Here's the thing that really bothers me,

and you've already pointed it out, Nancy. As a judge in juvenile court, I am asked to sign orders when a parent cites religious reasons for not seeking medical treatment. And you are absolutely right. It's not because they've starved a child to death. It's because the child literally in the hospital needing a blood transfusion or some life-saving procedure that the freedom of religion prevents the parent from allowing or saying that they will do. Very different in this scenario. So hiding behind religion in this case is wrong. By the time to Dr. Bethany Marshall, the baby's cheeks were sunken in. That baby had been starving for a long time. Nancy, I believe, I agree with Ashley

Wilcock, that this perhaps has nothing to do with religiosity. It might be that the parents simply did not want this baby, hated the baby, resented the baby's needs, hoped the baby would die. And now they're hiding behind their religious beliefs and their suspicion of the medical system because they're homicidal. And so often parents weave these complex narratives. Narratives I hear are that my child's greedy, my child's selfish, my child wants too much, my child cries all the time,

my religion prohibits me from seeking medical assistance. But when in fact the parent just does not want the child to be around. And it's that simple. You know, another thing to cop turned private investigator Vincent Hill. He did blog after blog after blog, online video blogs. Don't you know, the prosecutors are going to dig up every single one of them and play them back, Vincent. I mean, it's a treasure trove of evidence. Yeah, treasure trove would be an understatement, Nancy.

I mean, all of that stuff, it's out there, it's public knowledge, and that you don't need a search warrant for. So, yeah, the prosecutor's going to dig that up and play it all in court. And back to our caller, Joe in Florida. Joe, this guy that you seem to think is crazy has the wherewithal to dodge Child Protective Services, DFACS, Department of Family and Children Services, dodge them. He said he was afraid they would get in trouble if they went back to DFACS or DFACS found out the baby was, quote, sick, translation, starving. So if he's crazy, he's crazy like a fox because he knows not to call police he knows not

to call defects but he does know to call his lawyer not only that joe in florida what if somebody told you now joe i want you to go do an online video blog right now what in the and post it i i bet that wouldn't happen but this guy knows how to do it. Seth Welch was forever posting blogs where he would rant on and on and that are experts in that have come on with the reasons and so on. I'm incompetent of knowing what all of these experienced professional people know about someone's aspect. But I'm worried about you, Joe. I'm worried about you because Vincent Hill and Dr. Bethany and Ashley Wilcott are not going to be sitting on this jury.

So let me ask you this. To Ashley Wilcott, this guy who drones on and on and on on these blogs, as a matter of fact, listen to this. Seth Welch's wife, Tatiana Fusari, was in tears as the couple sat side by side for their

video arraignment today. They're both charged with what they call felony murder. In court documents, detectives say the couple told them they were aware of their daughter's skinny appearance and low weight for at least a month. The wife told detectives they did not get medical help over fear of CPS taking away their three kids, over distrust of medicine, and because of religious beliefs. All have been topics of some of her husband's rambling videos on Facebook. On doctors. They're priesthoods of the medical cult. On vaccines. The righteous shall live by faith. It's God who, it's God who's sovereign over disease and those sorts of things and, of course, ultimately death. Ashley Wilcott, not only did he post these incredible, bizarre blogs, he gave a full-on jailhouse interview.

Listen to this, Ashley. Greetings, sir. What can I do for you? Hi, Seth. This is Leon Hendricks. I'm a reporter from Wood TV. And we've been obviously reporting on what's going on with you. Yes, so I've been informed. You have been making reports of some sort. So that's why we're contacting you. Obviously, we only have what the police have given us.

Yes, I would advise you to be careful what you say from here on out. You will answer to the Lord for everything that is said against me. Okay. Seth, we're recording this for a story. I just, that's fine. You go ahead and record it, sir. What do you want people to know about this situation? And obviously you're in jail and you could be there for the rest of your life. What do you want people to know about what happened? And do you feel like you're being justly treated? Am I being justly treated on the inside? Yes, I am very thankful for the

conditions that could be much worse. I believe I'm being unfairly charged and being made an example of for my very strong faith and the trying times that are ahead and being made an example of. So what really happened? Why do you feel like you... I'll tell you exactly, sir, what really... This marriage was a very skinny girl when she was growing up, and now she's bigger than some six-year-old boys. So I didn't really think anything of it. In the Bible, it says that good food is our medicine, so we fed her.

You know, we were feeding her chicken, potatoes, apples, cheese. I mean, we were giving her the good stuff, and then also combined with breast milk. And she died. You know, the Lord give it, the Lord take it. In the Bible it says that we are not to use sorcery. Okay, you know, this thing is a full 30-minute interview with our friends at TV8. Ashley Wilcott, you're the judge, you're the lawyer, you're the founder of childcrimewatch.com. Everything is about him.

It's all about, you better watch about what you report about me. You better be careful. It's all about him, about how he fed the baby. Nothing about at all, I can't believe my baby is dead. Nothing like that. And how do you give an eight month old baby chicken and cheese? The baby doesn't even have teeth. It's insane. It is. But this is the good thing from my perspective in terms of wanting to see those who abuse and murder children prosecuted. This is great evidence for the prosecution. Number one, you can't feed those items to a baby. A baby of that age cannot physically eat those items. So to me, I would argue, clearly he's lying. He

didn't feed the baby anything because certainly couldn't have fed the baby those things. The second part of this is, Nancy, you know as well as I do, how much fun would you have had as a prosecutor with this particular interview and his recordings and his rants on the internet? They're going to utilize all of that against him in trial. And I think that that will help secure convictions. I mean, you're listening to him. You're the shrink, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Does he sound insane to you? He sounds grandiose. It's all about himself. Nothing about the baby. Sociopaths are grandiose. They become highly religious because they think they have the direct line to God or that they are God. In fact, he's preaching to the reporter who's talking to him. It's as if he's giving his sermon to the

world and he's so involved in the sermon, he doesn't even think about Mary. Why didn't they just feed her? If they noticed she was getting skinnier, why didn't they feed her? Hold on, Dr. Bethany. To John Lindley, was there food in the home? This is interesting to note. The Kent County Sheriff's Deputy, Dawn Tenbrink, there in those court proceedings, became very emotional about this point and the condition of the house. She said, very dirty. The crib that Mary was in, very dirty. Tenbrink said she found only one container of baby food, no formula during her survey of the home, but photos showed three formula containers in the house, two of which expired five months

before the baby's death. You know what? I'm just moved to tears right now about the way this baby was treated. To Ashley Wilcott, we keep talking about Seth Welch, the dad. What about the mom? Tassiana Fusari, she needs to be the same pot and stew with him. Yeah, she does. She needs to be prosecuted for child murder as well. And here's why, Nancy. A mother has a protective capacity generally to protect the child, including from a father, a family member, whoever it is who might be harming the child. The fact that she did not protect this child, she was complicit. She, too, needs to be charged with that. I want to take a listen to his jailhouse interview obtained by TV8. is pharmakia which is easily translated into our modern word for pharmacy which

is all the use of pharmaceutical drugs and you know including you know like things like vaccines which even have ingredients containing aborted fetuses you know and all sorts of toxic chemicals which are causing allergic reactions and in some cases deaths amongst the populace. And the more that they are being injected into the populace, you know, I think the results are pretty clear. People are getting more and more sick. There's more and more allergies. There's more and more, you know, physical maladies.

So, yes, we did the best we could for Mary according to our faith. We fed her good food. You know, we gave her water. We gave her lots of love. She just passed. Do you think there's anything that you did wrong here? No. Did she look like, I mean, that she was at risk of starving to death?

No. You're saying she looked like... If it was that drastic, we would have done something. We would have at least found a doctor who would be willing to practice, you know, things in a way that is compatible with our beliefs. They were not keeping her away from a doctor because they didn't like the doctor's practices because it conflicted with their religion. They said they didn't want to take her to the doctor

because they thought child services would be called and they would get in trouble. And why is he talking about vaccines? Lack of vaccines did not kill baby Mary. She died of starvation, John. In the court, it's very interesting. They didn't go into this. Welch's defense attorney actually went a completely different sort of confusing route, arguing that there's no evidence the couple had any intention to harm their baby or were willfully neglectful. In fact, there is testimony that both parents believed that their child

was fine. The child was skinny, but not sickly. They were breastfeeding the child. These two people are not nutritionists. They are not dieticians. Not nutritionists, not dieticians. Ashley Wilcott, I didn't know my head from a hole in the ground. All I knew is I had to keep the twins alive. And I knew that meant I had to feed them and watch them. They were extremely premature. I was no dietician. I was no Dr. Ashley.

Not only that, but think about the accounts of how this baby looked. Anyone would look at this baby and know this baby was starving. And think about this and all the steps along starving a baby to death. They don't just lay there quietly. They cry, they're hungry, and then they get lethargic and all these symptoms. So he has basically admitted it to me by him saying, oh, if there'd been any sign, we certainly would have found some kind of doctor that could meet our religious needs. No, there were plenty of signs. So he just admitted he just chose to ignore those signs. Well, in another portion of his interview, he says, quote, It's like saying a murder victim died from bleeding to death

instead of saying they died because they got their throat cut. I believe something else happened here that caused Mary's body to shut down in such a way. It's just a bunch of cockamamie babbling. Dr. Bethany, still, he's still trying to talk about vaccines, which had nothing to do with Mary's death. He's still trying to talk about doctor treatment being bad, which had nothing to do with her death. She died of starvation. And you know, Nancy, even if they had fed her, they probably did not address all these critical stages of development where you play with the child and you cuddle the child. And once those developmental stages pass, those opportunities for growth are gone.

So the starvation is the most obvious sign of neglect. But there were many, many more types of neglect going on in this home, not only with this baby, but with the other children. And one more quick thought, you know, he's stringing together all these ideas that don't make sense. And we call this trite, rehearsed, stereotyped speech. It's when somebody presents all these superficial ideas as if they know what they're talking about, but they really don't know what they're talking about at all. And it's a cover-up for a very deficient human being who cannot attach, has no empathy or remorse, and can't even love his own children. Well, this is what I know. Your scenario about he and the mother, Tassiana Fusari, leaving the baby on a moldy mattress, shutting the door and letting her die fits with the facts as we know them. There is no death penalty in Michigan.

Let's see what unfolds in court. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.