Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mommy says 2-y-o Juelz Shoots Self in Head: NO WAY!

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

Emergency services arrive on the scene where a Texas mother claims her 2-year-old daughter shot herself in the head. An autopsy now shows that Juelz Gonzalez could not have pulled the trigger. Forensics show the little girl was shot from a distance. Her mother, Jessica Cantu, 35, was arrested and charged with endangering a child.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Lombardo - Founder and Principal: SAFER USA Consulting Group (Chicago, IL), Expert Witness, Guntestimony.com, "On Target Radio" on AM560 The Answer, Anchor: The National Shooting Sports Foundation’s "SHOT Show TV"  John W. Dill, Esquire - Personal Injury Lawyer, Winter Park, Florida, Author: "The Method: Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials", www.JohnWDill.com, Twitter/IG @JohnWDillESQ, Represented Zenaida Gonzalez against Casey Anthony  Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital  Lisa M. Dadio - Former Police Lieutenant, New Haven Police Department, Annie Le Lead Detective Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant, DMichelleDupreMD.com  Amanda Henderson - General Assignment Reporter, News 4 San Antonio & Fox San Antonio, Instagram: @amandasreports, Twitter: @AmandaHTV  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A two-year-old little girl, dead, shot in her own home, apparently by a self-inflicted gun wound? We'll see about that. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. What happened to two-year-old Jules? Take a listen to our friends at KENS5. We begin with breaking news. A two-year-old girl shot in the head in East San Antonio. About 10 minutes ago, we got new information from police.

Eyewitness News reporter Matt Hewson is there on the scene. This is on Dublin, not far from Rogers Middle School. Matt, what do we know? Yes, Sharon. First responders took that child to a local hospital soon after the shooting in critical condition. That tells us that the child is alive, but with very serious injuries, perhaps even life-threatening. Police are still trying to figure out what happened here behind me. You can see some of their cars, though no flashing lights. We know that the mother called

911 sometime after the shooting. Police do not yet know if the child shot herself or if someone shot her. There are no suspects right now. In fact, it's too early to know if anyone did anything wrong. But obviously another tragedy in a string of violent crimes involving children here in San Antonio in just the last six weeks. Again, the child at last report in critical condition in the hospital after a gunshot wound to the head. A two-year-old girl. A two-year-old little girl raced to the hospital with a critical wound. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. David Lombardo, founder, principal, Safer USA Consulting Group. You can find him at guntestimony.com.

John Deal, high-profile lawyer, joining us out of Winter Park, Florida, author of The Method, Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction

at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant, New Haven PD. Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner, detective, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But first, to special guest Amanda Henderson, general assignment reporter, News 4 San Antonio and Fox

San Antonio. Amanda, thank you for being with us. Explain to me about the area where two-year-old Jules was shot inside her own home. Yeah, so again, we were one of the first crews who was on the scene that night in the southeast side of San Antonio. This is a very large city, so obviously there's a lot of diversity in certain areas. And the southeast side is no exception to that. large city. So obviously, there's a lot of diversity in certain areas. And Southeast is no exception to that. So when we got there, you know, there were several houses, neighbors were standing outside trying to figure out exactly what was going on. And so, again, it was at nighttime, there's a lot of houses there. And a lot of people were trying to figure out,

you know, what had happened at that point. Tell me about the neighborhood. So this was a freestanding home, not an apartment? From what we could see, it appeared to be there were homes there, also duplexes there, but not an apartment complex, correct? So you get there late at night, what time? It was somewhere between 9.30 to 10 p.m. when we got on scene, because I do remember we went live for our 10 o'clock show. Interesting. So it's 9.30 to 10 p.m. when we got on scene because I do remember we went live for our 10 o'clock show. Interesting. So it's 9 30 to 10 o'clock at night. This was during the school year. Now I know that Jules was just two years old and wouldn't be in school but on a school night or work night I don't know why a two-year-old little girl would be up and about instead of in her own crib or bed. So you get there, and what, if anything, did you learn about the wound to two-year-old little Jules?

So at the very beginning, there was not a lot of information. As with every case, especially when there's a child involved, there's a lot of investigation to figure out all of the facts and all of the details. So what we were told that night was that Jules, at the time, I need to clarify, we did not know her name. But we were told that just a two-year-old little girl had a gunshot wound to the head. And at that point, she was in critical condition. Guys, take a listen to Henry Ramos, K-E-N-S-5. Half of her brain is not working right now. I don't think it's repairable. The family wants someone held accountable. This is a baby

that's fighting for their life, you know, and you're worried about your freedom. What about this baby? Her aunt also speaking to parents who have weapons inside the home. Make sure it's not loaded. You know, make sure you have it put up locked, you know, because in a split second, everything can change. Tonight, I'm still waiting on a response with an update in this case. Though something to note, the night of the shooting, officers say that they found a weapon outside the home. And the family tells me tonight that Jewel's older sister, four years old, saw what happened. She's traumatized. They're going to get her help. The family just continues to ask for prayers tonight as it's not known when the little girl will get out of the hospital.

Not knowing she will get out of the hospital at that time. They were holding out hope that she would live to Dr. Michelle Dupree, former medical examiner, joining us. Dr. Dupree, thank you for being with us. I heard at the very beginning that Henry Ramos stated that half of her brain, this two-year-old beautiful little girl, half of her brain was, quote, not working right now. What does that mean? That means that basically there's brain death. A bullet, when it hits the brain, it's not just the bullet that causes the damage.

It's something we call a temporary cavity. And what that means is, it's like a pebble going into a lake. It's the pebble that causes damage, but it's also those ripples, and those ripples affect the neurons. So if half of her brain, quote, isn't working, and we also hear Remo state that,

I don't think it's repairable. Is it ever repairable? Most likely not no a significant injury to the brain like that it damages and destroys those neurons and they will not be reconnected. I know that this little girl had a dachshund named Rolly and loved to play with Rolly, loved to play in the backyard. They had a slide in the backyard just two years old at the time of her death. We are talking about jewels, baby jewels shot in the head. Now, I know, Dr. Dupree, that you're saying she was brain dead. And I guess that that is vernacular, a street term. I'm sure you have a different term for it. But does that necessarily mean that she has to die from the injury?

Is there a way to keep her alive and hope that she can get well? Not really, Nancy. We can keep the heart alive, but we really cannot keep the brain alive. And the heart typically stays alive a little bit longer because it has the ability to beat on its own. But once the brain becomes dead, that person is actually officially dead.

So even though the heart's still beating, if the brain is dead, the person is considered dead, and it's a matter of taking them off the life support? Yes, that's correct. I want to speak to David Lombardo, founder, principal, Safer USA Consulting Group, and you can find him at GunTestimony.com and on Target Radio AM560. David, thank you for being with us. Could you give me the stats about children's deaths in homes where there is a gun?

There's 400 million guns in the United States. And while we do know that there are children who have gotten hurt with them, the vast majority of people appropriately store firearms and they keep them away from children. Obviously, this is a high profile case where that did not happen. Straight out to Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant and now professor at University New Haven in forensic science and criminal investigations. Lisa, thank you for being with us. From what I can tell based on the most recent data, children and teens, 3,150 people killed a year.

That's according to the CDC. More than cancer. That's a lot. That is a lot of child deaths from guns. Help me out. It is. A lot of it, as we know, comes back to unsafe storage. Gun owners not properly storing their firearms and just leaving them or children knowing where they are. Don't think that if you have your gun stored in a safe that your

child does not know the code or the key to get into it. We've seen that happen in the past. And, you know, a lot of it falls back on whomever's in the home not properly storing those firearms. Now, we also know that part of that also is going to come from being over someone's home and having that happen. Unfortunately, being outside and there being a drive-by shooting or being a victim of gun violence in some other way other than improper storage of a firearm. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace what happened to this little girl you know i i'm very curious to john deal personal injury lawyer high profile lawyer out of winter park i'm just thinking back on my twins at age two they had really just started walking and scooting around.

They were very premature, so they were slow in their physical development. They had just started scooting around and walking at 18 months. And there's no way they could have picked up a gun and pointed it and shot themselves in the head at that age. I mean, I know children develop differently, but there's no way the twins could have done that at age two. Yeah, that's one of the questions. Even if the idea that they're picking up the gun, I'm not sure if they could point and turn around or, depending on the trigger uh even apply enough pressure to pull the trigger voluntarily so that's that in and of itself because of the age is very suspicious well apparently uh in our cut too you will hear that henry ramos at kens five agrees listen

surrounding a family who is torn and in need of support they're praying for two-year-old jules gonzalez and her loved ones, her father, Julio. She's showing me she's strong and fighting, so we're going to keep fighting for her. Last Friday, when officers arrived here on Dublin Street, they came across the two-year-old with a gunshot wound. The police preliminary report says the girl reportedly shot herself. Investigators say she was there with her mother and her mom's boyfriend at the home. Jules' father and aunt don't believe the little girl could have done it. No, there's no way. Even the doctors and stuff like that, they say we've seen cases a lot of times, but your daughter was too young.

She's not strong enough to do that. There's no way. Jules is in the ICU and has a long road to recovery. To Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining me out of Atlanta. Dr. Angie, that feeling, I will never forget it. The feeling when you're at the hospital and you're hoping and you're praying for a recovery and then it doesn't happen. Those hours are like pure hell. It's like a limbo. It doesn't seem like Those hours are like pure hell. It's like a limbo.

It doesn't seem like it's day or night outside. It just goes on and on and on. And that's what you're hearing the father going through at the hospital. Well, and certainly, Nancy, during that time, everyone involved is in a state of shock. And everyone is also still maintaining hope because no one in any of these situations goes in expecting that the person is going to die. There is always hope until the very last minute. Just as you were asking Dr. Dupree

what kind of injury occurs to the brain when these kinds of things happen you know nancy typically you know just just the regular public doesn't understand that because most people haven't worked in an emergency room and they don't see the kind of damage that was done to to this little girl or anyone after being shot in the head it's it's massive damage that happens so of course the family is out in the head. It's massive damage that happens. So, of course, the family is out in the waiting room hoping, beyond all hope, that the doctors can do something to save her little life.

But they're in shock also. Now, I know that you're a psychiatrist, but you have to be a medical doctor and then specialize in psychiatry. Did you ever have to do tour at an emergency room? Oh, sure. I worked in the emergency room an awful lot. I did internal medicine before I did psychiatry. And so I worked in the emergency room.

I moonlighted in the emergency room. Oh, my goodness. And trauma emergency rooms, Nancy. So, Dr. Angie, when they're saying that half of her brain was not working, what does that actually mean? Was her face blown off, this two-year-old little girl? Probably. The half of her brain wasn't there. And I've seen that in the trauma rooms where I've been. It's horrific, Nancy.

It's absolutely horrific. And so they said, I'm sure they said to the family, half of her brain isn't working because you're not going to go out in the waiting room and tell the family, oh, my God, half of her brain is blown off. I mean, Nancy, I've been in the emergency room where there were a lot of farming accidents where I worked and someone had their head mashed in some sort of farming tool. OK. And the family still thought that man was going to live, but we were watching his brain ooze out of the back of his head. They thought he was going to live. So you can't,

yeah, you, you have to, when you're in the emergency room, Nancy, you have to save people from, from the reality of what's really going on in their loved one who's been injured so horribly. And to you, Dr. Michelle Dupree, former pathologist, medical examiner, and detective,

Dr. Dupree, it's kind of like the family suspends their disbelief. Like when you go into a movie, you get totally sucked in. You're not looking at what's happening around you, and everything is believable and possible. The family goes to the emergency room, and they really believe that this child can be saved. They're out there hoping. They're praying. They think the baby can be saved, but she's been shot in the head.

Exactly, Nancy. I mean, you don't want to believe it, and they're in shock. What you say to them, they're not even going to remember or understand at that point in time and it's important for us to recognize when folks are in shock like that because they don't remember and they don't want to believe it and you have to find a gentle way to help them come to that realization and you know lisa daddio former police lieutenant haven and now a professor lisa another thing that adds to the adds to the pain. I remember

when I learned my fiance was had been killed and I thought he must have been in a car crash. But then you have a whole nother layer when I found out he was murdered. In this case, it's horrible enough for a two year old-old little girl to die. And then you've got the whole other layer that she was shot in the head with a gun and in her own home. You just can't fathom that, right? It comes back to who would ever hurt a child. And unfortunately, we know the answer to that more times times than not um it just you know everybody in the community uh in the state was hoping that it was a true accident but then it's like well how is it an accident with a two-year-old you know how does that happen guys take a listen

to our friend sarah forgainy at kens five a toddler shot in the head earlier this month has died two-year-old jules gonzalez was rushed to the hospital on February 18th after being shot in the head. And according to police at the time, the implication was that she pulled the trigger after finding a gun in her home. Police are investigating the case and so far no arrests. Now the family did start a GoFundMe page for her funeral expenses saying she gained her angel wings on Saturday. She was able to become an organ donor. Little Jules was one month away from turning three. To David Lombardo, founder and principal, Safer USA Consulting Group, anchor of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, SHOT Show. David, again, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about trigger pull on a gun like this?

Sure. The firearm that was in use was a Glock 35. It's a.40 caliber. And Glock is somewhat unique in the trigger pull. It's, without getting too technical, it's a single-action, two-stage trigger. So you're talking about how difficult would it be to pull? The gun itself, fully loaded, which one would presume it probably was, is about a little over two pounds.

And the trigger pull itself is on the Glock about five and a half pounds, which is not really a lot. David Lombardo, when you say five and a half pounds pull, could you explain to our non-gun aficionados what you mean by that? I have compared it with juries. I pick up a small can of Jif peanut butter, I mean jar, versus the biggest one. Obviously, one's heavier than the other. How do you use that imagery to explain pull on a gun?

Well, I think you sort of hit the nail on the head. A jar of peanut butter is probably a few pounds anyway. So there's a lot of things that are in that sort of weight category and that would be one of them. It's literally when we say trigger pull is five and a half pounds, it's the same thing as if you were lifting a five and a half pound weight with your finger. That is literally what it would be like. And that's not a lot. But when you're talking about a two-year-old who may only weigh 25 pounds or 30 pounds, five and a half pounds may be substantially more difficult for her to pull. It's not like an adult pulling it. My daughter is 14 and I still have to open a bottle of water for her sometimes. Well, yes, I think you'll find that five and a half pound trigger pull.

We train kids in a youth camp, and obviously they're older than that, but it's not really a problem to pull that trigger. Five and a half pounds is not that much if you're holding the gun. Okay, I trust you. I believe you. Guys, take a listen to our cut five, Lee Waldman at KSAT. is not that much if you're holding the gun. Okay. I trust you. I believe you. Guys, take a listen to our cut five. Lee Waldman at KSAT. Julio Gonzalez saw his two-year-old daughter, Jules Gonzalez,

for the last time at the hospital last night. And Julio tells me he wants answers about how his daughter was shot. According to San Antonio police, the gunshot was self-inflicted, but Julio doesn't know how she would have gotten a gun. This happened at a duplex on Dublin Avenue near Pickwell Drive on the city's southeast side on February 18th, just before 8 p.m. That night, police say Jules' mom and mom's boyfriend were home at the time of the shooting. The mom was fully cooperating, but the boyfriend left the home before the police got there. Jules was taken by EMS to University Hospital in critical condition. Julio tells me doctors did everything they could to save her over this past week. Now, tonight, we know this

investigation is still ongoing by police. No arrests have been made in connection with this shooting. But, of course, Amanda Henderson joining me, a special guest from News 4 San Antonio and Fox San Antonio. Amanda, I wouldn't be surprised if charges were not leveled against the mom or the boyfriend for having a gun in the home where the child could get to it. Do we know if the gun was stored anywhere or where the gun was typically kept? We do know, based on some new evidence,

new facts that have come to light, that eventually the mother who ended up buying the gun, you know, obviously there have been a lot of developments since two-year-old little Jules first got shot and tragically passed away. But right now we don't know if it was stored somewhere or if it was just out of the open um i want to circle back to where the gun should have been john deal what do we know where should the gun have been well the gun should have been obviously out of where the child could reach it should be unloaded should be in a gun safe or something else so it sounds like none of those things took place

so it's it's absolutely reckless on the part of you know the parents or whoever is in the room there with for this even to be accessible to the child so when you should when he should have been planning play school or a play date or taking the child to a swimming pool or a playground, they are now stuck planning a funeral. Take a listen to Hour Cut 6, our friend Sarah Duran. It's a gathering no father wants to host for their child, but for Julio Gonzalez. I'm going to give it the very best. It's the only way he can help bury his two-year-old daughter, Jules.

Specifically going to her headstone, her funeral expenses. A plate sale to pay for his daughter's burial services, creation of an organization in her memory, and counseling for his other daughter Julia. He says the four-year-old saw what happened to her younger sister last month. On February 18, Jules was found by San Antonio police with a gunshot wound to the head. A preliminary report states the girl reportedly shot herself. She ended up dying more than a week after the incident. I just got to stay strong.

It's just hard, man. After the shooting, her father had a hard time believing Jules did it. His belief hasn't changed. My daughter didn't shoot herself. Investigators say her mother and the mom's boyfriend were home at the time. We followed up with police today and they said the investigation is ongoing. The medical examiner also told us the toddler's cause of death is pending. You know, I find that very interesting. You know, to you, Dr. Michelle Dupree, could you explain what is a trajectory path of a bullet?

Yes, Nancy. That's basically the line that the bullet follows as it hits the target. And we can tell so much by that. One of the things that we look at, one of the most important things we look at is that trajectory. And that helps us establish whether what we're hearing who shot who or where they were standing or that kind of thing it helps us tell if that's true or not for instance um a good way to show this to a jury is to get styrofoam a styrofoam ball and then enter anything like an arrow a piece of plastic drinking straw, where the bullet goes in and have it

come out where the bullet would come out of the head or the body. Exactly. Trajectory path is the path a bullet or a weapon takes, typically a bullet, as it passes through the human body. For instance, if it was the head we're talking about, you could say the trajectory path was right to left, up to down, just above the right ear coming out of the lower jaw. This would suggest the gun was above the eye going down, which typically would not be a suicide. It's hard to get a downward

trajectory on a suicide. It's very significant what the trajectory path shows. Then there is a sudden twist in the case. Take a listen to our cut nine, our friends at News 4. Tonight, all eyes are on the death of a San Antonio toddler. A new twist shows two-year-old Jules Gonzalez did not shoot herself, as we were initially told. On Friday, her mother, 35-year-old Jessica Kandu, was arrested and charged with endangering a child in connection with Jules' death. In Kandu's affidavit, it says the toddler's autopsy revealed she could not have shot herself due to the gunshot being from a distance and not close proximity. Even though this was determined one day after Jules's death, we just learned of this new information. So we went right to SAPD

to find out why. They tell us, quote, initially it was reported to police that the child shot herself. Through the course of the investigation, investigators gathered additional evidence, including the medical examiner's report, that determined the child had not shot herself. With enough probable cause, they were able to issue a warrant for child endangerment. Child endangerment. So if the child didn't shoot herself, and the only people in the home are the mother and the boyfriend who I might remind everyone picked up and left before EMTs could even get there to get jewels then it had

to be one of those two and that's all shown from the trajectory path alone that's like um someone shooting themselves in the back and someone being shot in the back and then claiming it was suicide. Impossible. Can't happen. And here this trajectory path shows Amanda Henderson joining us from News 4 and Fox San Antonio that this little girl did not shoot herself. What can you tell me about the findings of the autopsy, Amanda Henderson? You know, so we actually talked to the medical examiner's office last week when this all came out. They said the case is still open. We actually found out about the autopsy through the affidavit, through Cantu's affidavit. She was arrested previous Friday, so not the one that just passed,

but the one prior to that. And she was charged, as you just heard, with child endangerment. And her boyfriend, a couple months prior, had been arrested on criminal charges related to allegations that a gun he possessed was used to kill the little girl. But that is the extent of the charges right now. Okay, hold on. What did you say? What was the boyfriend's charge?

Yes, so her boyfriend, Joshua Ramirez, he was charged with criminal charges related to allegations that a gun he possessed was used to kill the little girl. So, I'm gathering Amanda Henderson is the boyfriend's gun, but the boyfriend is not charged with shooting the little girl, right? As of now, that's correct. So, let me understand this. John Deal, high-profile lawyer joining me out of Winter Park. John Deal, you've got two adults in the home, one being the mother, the person you expect to protect you the most, now charged in the shooting death of her child. Now, I'm hearing an endangerment charge, but we know the child didn't shoot herself.

Deal? The endangerment charge, obviously, just the gun even going off, which it clearly did, and being in the house would be enough for child endangerment. The issue becomes, if it's a homicide, it goes back to the trajectory issue that you were talking about. If it's from further away on a straighter path, that would indicate that. If it's from down to up, then they could argue she accidentally dropped it potentially. But I would think the actual trajectory and the actual distance away is what the police are going to continue to look at. Because I believe this isn't the extent of the charges on this one. Man, I hope not.

Guys, speaking of the distance, take a listen to our cut eight, our friends at Ken's Five. New details tonight. A San Antonio woman arrested after her two-year-old daughter died from a gunshot. Jessica Cantu is charged with endangering a child. Police say Cantu reported that her child, Jules Gonzalez, shot herself in February. The two-year-old died at the hospital days later. But now the medical examiner says the child could not have shot herself.

The gun was shot from a distance and not close proximity. According to police records, Cantu says the gun belonged to her boyfriend, Joshua Ramirez. Police say he fled the scene before officers arrived. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, explain to me, Lisa Daddio, how we know this little girl was not shot at close range. Well, you're going to look at the injuries, possibly the clothing of the child that she was wearing, the bedding, her hands, and you're looking for things such as gunshot residue. You're looking whether or not there's what we call blowback. If there's a close contact wound, parts of tissue, bone, blood is going to blow back onto the hand that was used.

It's going to blow back onto and into the firearm, the barrel of the firearm. And you're going to be looking at all that type of evidence to determine whether or not this was actually a suicide, an accidental shooting, or a homicide. To David Lombardo, joining me from Safer USA Consulting Group. David, it's my understanding to determine if a gunshot wound, a GSW, is close range, first you would look for stippling on the skin. In other words, was it a contact wound? If the gun is touching the skin, there will be a burning effect on the skin around the barrel from the heat

of the shot and from the gun you would look for gunshot residue on the victim's hand gunshot residue typically does not extend past 36 inches so if there is not gunshot residue on the victim's hand you would assume and blow back the way lisa daddio hand, you would assume, and blow back the way Lisa Daddio just explained, you would assume that the victim did not accidentally or intentionally shoot themselves. Now, what else should we look for to David Lombardo? Well, actually, gunshot residue can be as far as five feet, but you're right. The temperature of a shot averages in the thousands of degrees. So you're going to look,

there'll be burning. The closer it is, the more it would deform the skin from the burn. The residue itself is made up of copper and brass and nickel and all these metals that vaporize when you fire the gun.

So they literally get sprayed. The further away the muzzle of the gun, the wider the diameter that you would see on the face. So what we can tell is this. We can't say for sure if a child or someone committed suicide by holding a gun up to themselves because anyone could hold it up close. But we can say that they couldn't have done it if you don't have residue. Because if you have residue, it could be as far as five feet away. That means nobody could reach that far.

Guys, take a listen to our cut seven. Our friend Henry Ramos, Ken's five. This affidavit right here reveals when the suspect showed up here and agreed to talk to police, though we've learned tonight investigators say that he lied to them. We're talking about Christopher Joshua Ramirez. Investigators say that it was his gun that killed Jules. And during the investigation, police say that the little girl shot herself. According to the affidavit, officers found a duffel bag with a gun inside. And Jules' mother says her boyfriend had packed it at their home.

How does the weapon end up in a duffel bag? Because, remember, EMTs and cops get there almost immediately, and the gun's already in a duffel bag. I mean, that tells me a lot, John Deal. If it's an accidental shooting, why would you put the gun in a duffel bag before cops could even get there? Exactly. That consciousness of guilt type of thing, right? If it's an accidental shooting, that's not how loving people react. Let's put the gun in a duffel bag and you know what that

reminds me of it reminds me of top mom casey anthony and one of her many stories about what happened to kelly two-year-old kelly there were a lot of different stories like the fake babysitter took her she was at the beach yeah zanny the nanny was my client. Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. How could I forget that? And then there was the, my father, George Anthony fished her out of the swimming pool where she accidentally drowned. And then he put her in a trash bag and threw her body in the woods. No, George Anthony would never have fished this baby out of the pool. This baby he loved more than anything in the world. Put her in a trash bag and throw her in the woods.

No more than it's an accidental shooting. Nothing nefarious has taken place. And you think to hide the gun in a duffel bag before cops can get there. Now, take a listen to our cut 10. Amanda Henderson needs four. Gontu's arrest affidavit also says she and her four-year-old daughter were in another room when she heard a loud pop. Child abuse prevention advocate Carrie Wilcoxon says the adults there that night, both Gontu and her boyfriend Joshua Ramirez, had a responsibility to protect Jules. A caregiver has a responsibility whether you're committing the actual act or you're

aware of what's happening you have a duty to protect you have a duty to act this was preventable that's the part of this that is so tragic and with me special guest am Henderson from News 4 San Antonio and Fox San Antonio. Amanda, let me understand. So, the trajectory path of the gunshot on this little girl makes it clear that this was not a suicide. An accidental shooting where the little girl shot herself. You got a five and a half pull trigger pull on the gun. And before the cops can get there, somebody hides the boyfriend's gun, the weapon in a duffel bag. Is that right? That's definitely what we just heard. Again, we don't know anything before that situation,

if the gun had been properly stored or if it was just out in the open but again the night that we were there there were so few details that were coming out all we knew at the time was that the little girl had a gunshot wound and then you know about a about a week later or so is when you know she tragically passed from that gunshot wound and then just this past week is when we learned that, in fact, the medical examiner's office concluded one day after her death that she could not have shot herself. The trajectory past shows that she couldn't have shot herself and the gunshot was from a distance,

which means this little girl's arm is, what, three feet, two feet long? There's no way that she could have shot herself from a distance unless she jerry-rigged it with a rope and pulled the rope for Pete's sake. That's total BS. Somebody in that home shot this little girl. Amanda Henderson, the boyfriend, what is he charged with? So about a month or so after the original shooting took place, however the gunshot came out, he was actually picked up on criminal charges that were related to allegations that a

gun he possessed was used to kill Jules. So that's his current charge is that the gun used to kill two-year-old Jules was possessed by him? Correct. The mother is currently charged, Jessica Cantu, with what? She is charged with a child endangerment. To be formal, endangering a child in the death of Jules. Okay. This is very probative to me. The mother, John Deal, the mother is the one charged with endangerment ending in death of a child. Not the boyfriend that left the scene.

The mother. The mother. And from that, I am deducing the mother shot her own two-year-old child at a distance. I think you would tend to show that. I mean, if it's one of the two of them, if it's somebody pulled the actual trigger, it's one of the two of them, the charges against her endangerment causing the death, and it seems like him in possession of a firearm,

probably by a convicted felon, possibly. But the question is going to be now between the two of them, which version of events comes out in the criminal process. To Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, number one, we now understand the four-year-old sister, the four-year-old sister witnessed the death of her two-year-old little sister, number one, and we also are learning that Jules was autistic and had not learned to talk yet.

How do you factor that into this scenario, doctor? Well, first of all, the child that witnessed this, first of all, it appears to me that she could be a witness. Couldn't she? Couldn't she tell people who shot the kid? Yes. But second of all, the trauma that that little girl has gone through, because I imagine if her sister is autistic, which is what has come out of this, and she was nonverbal at this time, her little four-year-old sister was probably very protective of her and probably spoke for her often.

Okay? And they probably had a little language between them that they used. But the trauma that the four-year-old is going to have to bear and live with in her four-year-old mind, there are things that are going to stop in her development because of what she has seen in this. Well, I know this. Somebody is lying because now we're learning the four-year-old saw the shooting of her two-year-old sister. And the mother says that she and the four-year-old were in another room when they both heard a, quote, loud pop. And I guarantee you, it's not the four-year-old lying.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.