Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MONSTER MOM Hires Hitman TO MURDER HER OWN TOT-BOY

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

She is a mother to a 3-year-old, but that didn't stop Jazmin Paez from contacting a website looking for a hitman.  In fact, Paez went online three times to find a hitman to murder her own son.  RENT A HITMAN is the site police say Paez went to. It's a parody website, and this is just one more time the site's creator has reported harmful intent to the police. The child is safe and in the custody of his grandmother.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kelly Hyman – Trial & Civil Attorney (Miami, FL), TV Legal Analyst, & Author: “Build Back Better;" Podcast Host: "Once Upon a Crime In Hollywood;" Twitter: @kellyhyman1/TikTok: @kelly.hyman/Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1 Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Pat Diaz - Former Miami Dade Police Homicide Detective, Private Investigator in South Florida Bob Innes - Creator of WWW.RENTAHITMAN.COM; Twitter: @RENTAHITMAN   Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Did a mother actually try to hire a hitman to murder her three-year-old tot son. Let that sink in. A mother hiring a hitman to murder her tot boy? You know what? Every once in a while, every day, correction, I think, wow, I've heard it all. I've never seen anything like this before. How could people do such a thing? And then along comes someone like Jasmine Pays, who, according to prosecutors,

hires a hitman to murder her three-year-old baby. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at NBC. Police say Pius went on a parody website to seek a hitman to allegedly kill her three-year-old son. That website owner called police to report it. Robber Inez tells us he called Miami-Dade not emergency number three times,

but they referred him to Crimestoppers. However, on that third call, that's when a detective was put on the case. Because of the fact that it involved in online allegations. So that's what caused a little bit of a delay when he made him call a couple of times. Okay, wait a minute.

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around this. I'm going to go to an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, including the creator of RentAHitman.com. But first, to Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Nicole, how many children do you have? I just want to make sure one hasn't been added recently. I have 10 in my home at the moment. Okay. I was going to go with seven and I would have been very wrong. Nicole, a mother a hitman to murder her three-year-old tot boy. And you know what? Think about how hard you worked to get your family. All the red tape you went through, the years in the making of adopting these children, and now you have this beautiful family. Can you even imagine a mother hiring a hitman to murder her tot boy? I can't even wrap my head around it.

I can't imagine her having the thought of it, much less acting it out, following through with it. But she did. You know, that's interesting what you just said hold on i'm going to get to the facts just give me a sec hold on bob ns the creator of rent a hitman.com i've got to go to a shrink um with me is renowned psychologist joining us out of manhattan tv radio trauma expert consultant you can find her at karen calm that's Karen with a C Karen Nicole Parton just said something really interesting she said what mom would have the thought of murdering their child much less following through not acting

in a moment of anger which still gonna to hell, but cold-blooded, calculated, making the decision to hire a hitman to murder your baby, your toddler. You know, Karen Stark, sometimes I'll send you the pictures. My phone and my iPad and my laptop, they all generate photos of the twins, my babies. They're 15 now and these pictures pop up on my phone or my iPad of them this day in 2008, this day in 2014. I sometimes break down and cry because I want those years back. I want to do it all over again. I want them to be toddlers all over again because I can easily say with no hesitation, hand on the Bible, that the last 15 years have been the best years of my life because of them. The thought of killing your child has never once even flittered across my mind, much less as Nicole Parton, who's an investigative reporter, not a shrink like you,

actually calculatedly planning the murder of your child. That's a big leap, right? Well, it's not what anybody expects, Nancy. I think that's the most difficult. Just so you know, Karen Stark, I don't have you on today to say, well, nobody expected that. I can agree with that. Well, because when we think of a mother,

all across the world, when we think of mothers, we think of mothers and children. We think of Madonna and Child. It's a very strong image. And that is not the case when you have maternal suicide, when you have a mother who kills children. And those people are not like regular mothers. They are anti-personality, unless there is some kind of psychosis.

They are doing it because they want to get revenge on somebody or they really can't deal with handling a child. They turn the child into a monster and believe the child is acting out or crying to get even with them. They do not see their child as a real living human being that they are connected to. It's much more like a toy, something that they can discard. They don't have regular feelings. It seems to me, and of course I'm no shrink, that all the hatred or the anger, the frustration, everything going on in their lives, they, what do you say, transfer all of that onto an innocent baby. And somehow the baby is the cause of all of their problems.

That's correct. They project all of the things that are happening to them. And in some cases, they are being abused themselves. And anything that goes wrong, they think it's the child. And they also have no ability to cope with children. If you think about children are totally dependent. Sometimes they cry. You can't stop them.

They have a temper tantrum. These are women that turn their children into people that are working against them as though the children are developmentally mature enough to know that they hate their mothers and they're getting even with them. And we're talking about babies. According to the facts as we know them right now, a mother, a Florida mom, uses a hitman website to murder her three-year-old baby boy, allegedly paying $3,000 for the murder. That's what we know right now. Guys, take a listen to our friends at NBC. So this is it right here, rentahitman.com. It's actually a parody website. So police say it's not official, but police claim that woman logged onto this website to try to find a way to

kill her son. The mother accused of looking for a way to get rid of her child is now out of jail on a $15,000 bond. Quiet as she left the correction center out of jail but not out of trouble. Rent a hitman. Okay rent a hitman. I'm looking at it right now. Your point and click solution. It says Rent a Hitman is one of the most experienced professional crisis management. Whoa. Crisis management. You know, Bob Ennis, I'm going to get to you in just one moment because you created this thing. Kelly Hyman joining us, a trial lawyer out of Miami. This is her jurisdiction, TV analyst, podcast host of Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood, which is awesome. Kelly Hyman, thank you for being with us. Wait a minute. Now, you know,

I can just see defendants, wrongdoers all over the world that are hearing this right now, they're going to start referring to their murder plans as crisis management. What about this? Rent a hitman, your point and click solution. And I'm looking at it right now and it says we are 100% HIPAA compliant, hitman information, privacy and protection, act of 1964. That should be a tip off right there. But for people that are unlearned in the law, that may mean nothing to them. Field Op of the Year, 100% Satisfied Customer, Framed Awards. I mean, I mean, some people could read that and know this is a farce. Others, not so much. And the fact that she paid $3,000 to hire a hitman to murder her baby, I think says it all, Kelly Hyman. That's all I need is to follow that money to prove this case.

Yes. So she's been charged with first degree solicitation of murder and third degree use of communication device. And so the solicitation definition is when the defendant is asking or trying to convince another individual to commit a crime. So the state needs to prove that defendant asked someone to commit a crime, go on that website, ask someone to do it. And while they were talking, she directed, encouraged, invited, asked, or hired another person to commit a crime or attempt to commit a crime. And that would be if the state proves that, then she would be guilty of first degree solicitation of murder. With over 17,000 U.S. based field operatives, we can find a, quote, solution that's right for you. Since 1920, Renah Hittman has assisted in a diverse range of satisfied clients.

Wow. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Pat Diaz joining me, former Miami-dade police officer homicide detective private investigator now in south florida at south flpi south florida pi.com pat i don't care what the site really is what i care about is the safety of a helpless three-year-old tot boy and a mom who wants him murdered. And it's not just a conspiracy, because a conspiracy, a plan, has to have what we call an overt act for it to be prosecutable. I can't just sit around with Jackie and say, let's kill Sidney. I have to commit an overt act, like go buy a gun or something to that, to that in that bent. And in this case, transferring $3,000 is an overt act.

I agree with you 100%. In this case, you have to give Ms. Daniels credit for alerting the police. And then once the detective got on the case, he was smart enough to engage her in text messages. So that's the act that we needed to prove that she her intent was for this to happen. And once they had her there, then the exchange solidified the case completely against her. It was a good job on everybody's part to take her off the street. I love nothing more than text messages, Pat Diaz. You're so right. Because in the past, it would be a conversation, which is a he say, she say. She told me she wanted a hitman. No, I didn't. So who's the jury going to believe? But when you put it in a text message, it's just so much better. Hey, Pat Diaz,

former Miami Dade homicide detective, never a lack of business there. There's something different about murder for hire defendants, those defendants that lie and wait and pay money for murder. There's just something. Again, I'm not a shrink. I'm just a JD, not an MD. But I have noticed in my prosecutions and coverage, there's just something different about the mindset of someone that commits a murder for hire. What is it, Pat Diaz?

It's that depraved mind, because you have to take it serious. You can't just laugh off this as a case that, you know, somebody just trying to do something, you know, on a website. When you have somebody actually with the intent to find the hitman, you know they want to carry this act out. And you need to act on it real quickly, which Mommy Day did. But like I said, it's all good from Mr. Ennis calling the police to the police acting quickly. Because who knows? Her intent was to have that child killed. And she was going to carry that out one way or the other, and it was stopped in time.

And I give a lot of credit to everybody involved in the case. Oh, yeah. This baby was going to die one way or the other, as Pat Diaz just pointed out. Take a listen to our friends at CBS4. Haas sent an email to the folks at rentahitman.com. But the only man you'd see behind the screen is Bob Innes, who isn't a killer, but instead an IT specialist. It amazes me at the number of requests the website gets on a monthly basis. It's shocking. It's scary.

He has dedicated much of his life to helping authorities and tells me many of these emails are pranks, but some requests, like Paez's, ring a very different tune. Investigators say her email read, the murder had to be done by Thursday, and she, quote, wanted to get something done once and for all, adding that the child needed to be taken, quote, far, far, far away and possibly be killed, but ASAP, with a photo of the toddler attached. The good news here is that that child is safe tonight, but Paz has been charged with two felonies, one of first-degree murder and the other of unlawful use of a device. That would be conspiracy to commit first-degree murder. Now, believe it or not, this Miami Dade mom actually submits pictures of her little boy and the specific location where he would be to make it easier for the hitman to commit murder. Well, she's going straight to hell. But in the meantime, I hope with a little stop at the penitentiary and And now joining me, the creator of RentAHitman.com, Bob Ennis. Bob, first, I've got so many questions for you.

But first, I want to address this particular case with mom, Jasmine Paez. What happened? Nancy, thank you for having me this morning, by the way. So Jasmine visited the website, and she filled out what's known as a service request form in her own words as to the who, when, where, why. And so it was a Tuesday morning, about 930 in the morning Pacific time when I received the email.

And I read her information she stated that she wanted to have something done once and for all again to be taken far far far away and possibly killed but ASAP she included a timeline that she wanted to have this done by she also included a photo of the child. And this was not like any of the other requests that I had received. So I immediately got on it and responded to her within a couple of minutes, asking her if she still required our services and wanted to have a field operative. Contact her for a free consultation she said yes she wanted to have a field operative contact her so I did a little bit more research I was able to

verify the names and addresses and considering the close proximity within seven miles of where I as allegedly lived and where the child was, I realized that, you know, this was a credible threat and that if I didn't act, somebody else would have or could have. And the results could certainly have been different. So I had to do something. Or she would have killed the child herself. Guys, you're hearing Bob Ennis, the creator of RentAHitman.com. And according to not just Bob Ennis, but authorities, police, LA law enforcement, investigators pretend that they're a hitman, and they contact Paez, the mom, to find out more about her murderous plan, and it was then that she agrees to pay $3,000 to have her top boy murdered.

$3,000 to have her top boy murdered. Straight back out to Pat Diaz, former Miami-Dade cop, homicide detective, now private investigator. Pat, they immediately and frantically began to try and match the IP address that was used at runahitman.com to find out where the computer is and hopefully where she is. How does that work, Pat? Well, the technology nowadays is outstanding where we can actually, with the IP address and the phone number, you can actually, the police can actually ping the phone and give you the exact address where that phone is located so between locating the ip address and pinging that phone

the police were able to hone in on what address she was at at the time even though they knew she wasn't with the child that the child was at a different location their concern was to make sure they get her exact location and by pinging her phone they were able to get the exact address and be able to be on her right away okay an ip address of course now i'm just a lawyer but i'm pretty sure that stands for internet provider anybody can get your own ip address you go to settings you select-Fi, you tap on the network to which you're connected, and you find your IP address under IPv4 address. So if you can do it yourself, can't everybody figure out that the cops can find your IP address. They can figure out what computer it is, where the computer is.

Very often, who owns the computer, who bought the computer. It's like a fingerprint. It's like a computer fingerprint. To Kelly Hyman, a veteran trial lawyer out of Miami, tracking IP addresses, not hard at all. How does it work? Yes. So that is a really good point. So be careful what you type because you can definitely, definitely track everything that you do. And Nancy, you talk about how you can go on your website and track of where you are and where your

location is. But there you have to be really, really careful of what you type in or what you put in because you can be definitely tracked. And then the pinging, as Pat Diaz points out, even here's a good example. Do you remember the mom, Sherry Papini, who goes missing? Of course, we now later learn she staged the whole thing. Why? I don't know. Her husband used Find My iPhone, like we all do when we can't find our phone or iPad, and found the location. It's really easy.

Pinging is not that much more sophisticated than that very process. So the phone that she uses to speak to the hitman, who's actually an investigator, is immediately pinged. The IP address is obtained. And she's about halfway to a conviction right there. Guys, we're talking about a Florida mom who calls a hitman to arrange the murder of her own three-year-old top boy. Take a listen to Hour Cut 11 from NBC6. She ran a website to hire a hitman. To kill her own son.

What? To kill her own child. To kill her own son. I didn't get that far. Solicitation for murder and unlawful use of an electronic device. These are the charges by his faces while standing before a judge back to you Bob in his creator of rent a hitman calm I know that you started the website as a joke anybody that has any understanding of criminology or law can see that immediately but a lot of people don't get it. They want

someone murdered and they go to rentahitman.com. What types of requests have you seen since you started the website? I've seen a lot. I can't say I've seen it all because this obviously came out of nowhere. But, you know, generally you have people that are upset, maybe they're being bullied, maybe they're trying to get even with somebody in their family or neighborhood or whatever the case is. Some of these requests unfortunately are from kids seeking retaliation against somebody else for abuse, whether physical or what other kind of abuses there may be going on.

And each one of these I have to kind of feel out and find the best and most reasonable solution. but yeah I mean the website does see its fair share of craziness from people around the world rather who are seeking services which I clearly don't offer or even condone. What prompted you to start the website and I'm certainly glad that you did but what prompted you to do it? Yeah, so the website was created for a postgraduate IT startup specializing in penetration testing and risk analysis with hit being the key word pertaining to visitor traffic and analytics. It was after business plans kind of fizzled out. I put the domain on auction blocks and tried to sell it, tried to move it. Unfortunately, at the time, nobody was really interested in it.

It took several years for it to take shape into what it is today. And so there's a lot of desperate people out there that have sought how to hire a hitman online and they perform their Google and Yahoo searches they find the website they see that it is a, well, they may not see the parody in it, but they see that it's a problem resolution type company, and they feel compelled to leave their information. What goes through your mind when you see a request that is legitimate, like the one cops say Jasmine Paez sent you to murder her child? Her request was certainly different than a lot of them that I see.

She included details that I just could not overlook. I couldn't put to the side. The fact that this person wanted to have a child murdered and provided enough detail and a photograph of the child. I just knew that this was something spectacular that I had to get on right away. Is it true that out of all of the complaints or requests for murder for hire you get, you know that 124 New Yorkers have used your site. That is true. That is true. You must be really angry in New York.

Guys, take a listen to our cut one, our friends at Fox 2. He started the very basic site in 2005 as a class project, then left it. A couple years later, he opened the inbox. I go back into the inbox to check the emails, and I'm just shocked. There's 250 or 300 emails from people around the world seeking asset extraction. He figured he could do some good, and it seems he has, getting two new Murder for Hire messages just on Tuesday. The fact that a $9.20 website has prevented 141 murders, I never would have seen this coming. And also our friends at NBC6, our cuts two and three.

I saw the email. I just had a gut instinct that this was a serious threat. That is Robert Ines, a site webmaster. Now he says rentahitman.com is designed to prevent legitimate solicitations

to commit murders and intended to help law enforcement. There is a service request form that people can fill out in their own words as to who when where why he says some of these inquiries are jokes too things like wanting to kill cartoon characters but in the case against this mother suspected of wanting her three-year-old dead, Ines saw real concern. Having the ability to research names and addresses and verify that the intended target lived at a particular address, you know, that to me is a red flag. You know, it's a $9.20 website, and for it to have the ability to save lives nearly every day. It's ridiculous. To you, Bob Ennis, the creator of rentahitman.com, before now and your collision with Jasmine Paez, have you ever had a parent or anyone want

to murder a child? Unfortunately, yes. And in fact, earlier this year, out of Storm Lake, Iowa, there was a case involving a teenager, a and they were able to make an arrest and save that 7-year-old's life. Well, I was thinking exactly of that case. Take a listen to our cut 24 from our forensic crime online. It's hard to imagine the grudge between a teenager and a 7-year-old, but a 17-year-old Kansas teen tried to hire a hitman to kill a 7-year-old child. The teen visited RentAHitman.com and tried to hire a professional killer. Kansas police say she visited the website at least twice and shared information about the child, including their name and where they live. Police were contacted and an officer posing as a hitman contacted the teenager. The teenager told the fake hitman where to find the child and when they would be home. Officers arrested the teen the same day on a charge of solicitation to commit murder.

The child and their family were not harmed and were unaware of the danger. The same charges lodged in the present case where a mom wants a hitman to murder her three-year-old baby boy and across the country. Take a listen to our cut 17 from kdsu oh cormier andrew eskine and dalvin wilson are now each facing one count of criminal conspiracy to commit murder and one count of attempted first degree murder cormier allegedly hired two of his friends to silence a rape victim to keep her from testifying. The rape victim was not killed and instead someone else at the home, Brittany Cormier and her neighbor, Hope Nettleton, died as a result of their injuries.

Investigators say the new charges stem from two prior incidents when the suspects conducted surveillance on the home and attempted to commit the crime. So that hitman was successful except for one thing. He killed the wrong people. Hitman attempts happen every day, and very often they're successful. Take a listen to our cut 18 from Como.

Court documents paint a deliberate and disturbing murder-for-hire scheme. Bellevue Police say Sharon Kelly hired a 17-year-old boy to murder her ex-husband, Baron Lee, and offered to pay the teenager $13,000. On the day of the shooting in July, police say the 17-year-old got his friend to drive him to the overlook at Lakemont Apartments in Bellevue, where court documents say he was going to cap someone and empty the clip. Police say the 17-year-old gunman ambushed Lee, shooting him nine times. Nine times. That was to kill an ex-husband. I've seen hits on mother-in-laws. Yeah, you know, I'm lucky. My mother-in-law, my husband's mom, we've known each other since I was in college. Never had one cross word never well i can't say that for everybody take a listen our

cut 19 our friends at ky3 investigators say bauman wanted her ex-mother-in-law killed because she believed the woman was trying to interfere in her relationship with her children now camden county prosecutor caleb cunningham says the highway patrol's division of drug and crime control was contacted by a witness. According to court documents, that witness was asked to hire people to kill Bauman's ex-mother-in-law. Records show that witness recorded Bauman agreeing to pay $1,500 for people to make her ex-mother-in-law's death, quote, look like an accident. Her former mother-in-law was never injured. Bauman is in jail without bond.

You know, that hit was for $1,500. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bob Ennis joining us, creator of rentahitman.com. $1,500, that sounds like a bargain compared to what this mom was willing to pay Jasmine Paez to have her three-year-old tot murdered. She was in for $3,000. How much do people offer to pay for a hit? That's a great question. And one that whenever I'm asked, I kind of let the solicitor know that that is for them to discuss with the field operative.

Do they ever put an amount in? Hey, I've got to have this done for five grand or less. It does happen occasionally where people have said, you know, a couple of thousand dollars. But again, I kind of defer all of that to the field operative. That's very wise. The last thing you want to do is get tangled up with a would-be killer. Guys, that's not all.

Does the name Jennifer Emmy ring a bell? Because it does for me. Take a listen to cut 21. Our friends at CBS4 Denver. Court documents say much of what Jennifer Emmy, who's also known as Jennifer Edwards, much of what she said was secretly recorded by the would-be hitman. Successful lawyer, beautiful family, and currently in jail on a very serious allegation. Her lawyer said

Emme may have overreacted. Looked like the model family, and then all of a sudden, you know, her husband trades her in for a younger girl. I don't think it would surprise anybody that Jennifer or anybody in that situation would probably be pretty irate. Yeah, I would be irate. I might change the locks on the doors and burn all of David's clothes in the front yard. But hiring a hitman, that's a no. Because that would be one thing that would guarantee me never seeing the twins again. Okay, it's about time for Karen Stark, psychologist psychologist to jump in. Help me out, Karen Stark. You know, I was thinking as you're talking that

if Susan Smith were able to at that time, find this website, she would have been very happy to get rid of her two kids through hire a hit man. Because that was a woman who felt that her kids were in the way. And it just goes against what we conceive as human nature that she wanted her kids dead and made sure they were dead because they were interfering with her social life. My favorite, my personal favorite of all the people that hire hit men to kill someone would have to be Dahlia DiPolito. Now I remember her defense lawyers were mad at me because I said she was a former escort didn't that okay yeah they're worried about her reputation being maligned while she's accused of planning a murder for hire.

Hello, Priorities. Take a listen to our cut A. I'm Sergeant Ramsey. I'm the one that called you. Thank you for coming. I'm sorry to call you. Listen, we had a report of a disturbance at your house, and there were shots fired. Is your husband Michael?

Okay, I'm sorry to tell you, ma'am, he's been killed. No, no, no, no. He's been killed, ma'am. No, he's not. No, no. Try to been killed. No, no, no. Try to calm down. No, no, no. We need to get you to the station. We need to get you to our police station.

I can't let this end, man. We have to do our job. If you want us to find this killer, we need you to calm down. I'm gonna need you to go with these detectives. Okay? Do you have enemies? Is there anyone that would want to hurt him? Okay, who would want to hurt him? Witnesses said they saw a black male running from him.

I can't let you see him, ma'am. Ma'am, I cannot do this right now. Ma'am, I can't do it. Detective Yofi, I need you to take her to the station. I can't. Ma'am, go with these detectives. If you want to help your husband, okay? If you want to help your husband, you need to go to the station with these gentlemen

and tell us everything you know about who he knows, who he's connected to. Don't worry, we've already taken care of dogs with animal control for right now. Everything's under control. Okay, see, I could have cut that early and not heard the whole thing, but I didn't. Just let me have one moment during crime stories where I can smile and even, dare I say it, laugh. Her husband was not killed.

Dahlia DiPolito had tried before to poison her husband with a Starbucks, one of those sugary ones. That didn't work out. So she hires a hitman, and of course the hitman is an undercover agent. And they do a sting. They let her talk and talk and talk. You hear the cop informing her her husband's dead and she breaks down in tears. She actually bends over in half in all of her fake pain. Watch out, Meryl Streep. You think you're a great actress? You need

to see Dahlia DiPolito in this performance of a lifetime. But I want you to hear more. Take a listen to our cut 4A, ABC 2020. The undercover detective, he really wants to nail Dahlia. Make sure he's got it on tape and on camera that she is really going to pay him to kill her husband. And he says, are you sure, Dahlia? Between now and when it's done, you know, you're not going to have an option to change your mind, even if you change your mind. Okay, did you hear that? She's caught on video when asked, are you sure you want your husband killed? She goes, 5,000% sure I want him dead.

Okay, not just 100%, but 5,000%. Well, she's convicted. Bob Ennis, the creator of rentahitman.com. Have you ever wondered how many lives you've probably saved? Yes, I have. And, you know, honestly, I kind of lose count right around 120. And that's that's a worldwide figure, by the way. A great number of these cases were from Indonesia and some other parts of the world. I guess they're impressed by your 17,000 operatives around the world. I mean, this is an incredible website. I've looked at it many, many times.

Kelly Hyman, a veteran trial lawyer joining us out of the florida jurisdiction where this goes down what do you believe will happen hopefully there will be potentially some kind of resolution for the the family potentially there could be a potential plea deal as well but no matter how you look at it it is a, very sad case where a mother wants her child killed. Awful. You can't get any worse than that. A mother is supposed to love their child, protect their child, oversee the child. And for a mother to potentially want to do this is heartbreaking. I hope she doesn't catch any slack because she's a mom and somebody in the courtroom feels sorry for her. Oh, and I want to point out just earlier this year, a Tennessee Air National Guardsman was arrested because he applied to be a hitman on the site. Just as recently as 2021, a Michigan woman

used the website to hire a hitman for her ex-husband with a $5,000 payout. I mean, it goes on and on and on. To you, Karen Stark, please do not tune up and tell me I should feel sorry for this mom because I don't. No, I'm not going to say that, Nancy. I haven't been saying that all along. I think it's really different if we know that somebody has a mental illness. They're psychotic and they don't know any better. But it doesn't sound like this person didn't know any better. She went out of her way to try and hire a hitman. And look, we both know because we've been doing

this for a long time, even though there might be hitmen who get away with actually accomplishing this. So often, if you go to another person and try and get them to do that, it's not going to work out. They're going to tell somebody, someone's going to find out, you're going to be caught. But she very clearly had evil intent in doing this. And not just intent, made the phone call and agreed to a price, sent a photo of her tot boy to make sure they killed the right child. Those are overt acts under conspiracy law. She's charged with solicitation to commit murder. Pat Diaz joining us, former Miami-Dade police homicide detective, now private investigator at SouthFLPI.com. Pat, if Bob Ennis had not caught this

and contacted police, we may be looking at the dead body of a three-year-old baby boy. I agree 100%. That's why I gave him credit from the beginning because you know, based on her actions, that her intent was to kill her child. And if it didn't work on the website, then the next thing was to find somebody on the street to do it.

So kudos to him, kudos to the website, because he took action. This definitely was an individual with the intent and based on her action. This was between text messages and communication and good police work that she was taken off the street quickly. But I think her intent in the beginning was to have her child murdered, whether one way or the other. You know, I remember, Bob Ennis, when I was reading every single one of the Harry Potter books to the children. And I don't know how much you know about that. I sadly know everything there is to know. But Voldemort, the antagonist, murdered people. And every time he murdered someone, his soul would split. That causes your soul to split. And I remember reading that to the children,

you know, editing out parts I thought were really, really scary. And they said, why does your soul split in half when you kill somebody? And I said, because it's the worst thing in the world, in the universe, to take away God's most precious gift, and that is your life. And we're kicking this around, kind of laughing about this, because it was a failed attempt. We're not dealing with a three-year-old boy's dead body, thanks to mommy. But when you think about what these people are coldly planning to murder someone and pay money to have it done. It's really chilling.

It really is scary. And these people do live and walk amongst us. I mean, it's really terrible. It really is. And thank the Lord in heaven you managed to stop this attempt on a three-year-old boy's life. Nicole Parton joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What's next for mommy Jasmine Paez? Well, she's going to be returning to court to face these allegations,

and hopefully she'll receive the justice that's coming to her. It's kind of ironic to hear the why she did this. She told police that she was in a romantic relationship with someone who didn't like the fact that she had a child. And that had caused a breakup. And so she was planning to kill her child so that she could rekindle that romantic relationship with this person. That's exactly what Karen Stark said earlier, the motivation of Susan Smith. Well, we wait as justice unfolds. If you know or think you know anything about this investigation,

please call 305-471-8477. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.