Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Monster who murdered a 9-year-old girl still walking free. Who killed Debbie Randall?

Episode Date: September 7, 2018

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You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Under a tree shielded from rain and shadowed from view is a small heart-shaped marker. Detective Morris Nix knows the spot well, along with every detail of this little girl's brutal death. How do you do something like this in a library? Every detail except who killed Deborah Lynn Randall. She was a beautiful kid.

You could look at her picture and you can see the innocence. Detective Nix is part of a rare group of retired police officers who specialize in solving Cobb County's cold cases, and every one of them is familiar with Debbie's face and her case file. Deborah Lynn Randall from January 13, 1972. A third-grade little girl. Can you imagine that?

Is there anything sweeter? A third-grade little girl goes missing. Then, the worst, her body found. Her killer, her rapist and killer has never been brought to justice. But there is one man who is unrelenting in solving the case of Debbie Randall. And he's joining us now. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

It was a beautiful balmy evening when Debbie Randall, a beautiful little girl who loved Barbie dolls, her friends, baby dolls, cheerleadings. She went that evening to Suds and Duds, a laundromat close to her home. When she left that evening, she was never seen again. Take a listen to what an eyewitness says who comes forward years later. Sandra, what made you decide to come forward this much later? My sister works for Cobb County Jail, and she told me the case had been reopened and I thought it had been closed a long time ago. And I told her, I saw it happen. And she said, well, somebody might be calling you

and getting in touch with you. And I said, okay. And that's when she was talking to a detective and I called her one day and she said, well, this is a coincidence, and she put him on the phone, and he asked me if I would be willing to talk to Detective Nix, and from there on, it's just connection to you. Sandra, I know it was a while back, but please put your mind back to the evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe? They did not get her where they thought they got her. There was like a playground that was behind the laundromat and also a place there where you would go and get lawnmowers to cut people's grass.

And there was a tree right there beside the laundromat where there was no windows or anything on the side. I seen this black pickup truck stop. The driver got out, left his door open, left the truck running. He ran. He went over to Debbie. He grabbed her. And she was kicking her feet and kicking real hard and screaming and yelling. And he had her over his shoulder, so she was screaming and kicking.

He threw her in the truck, and then he almost ran over me. What did the truck look like? All I know is it was a black truck because I was 12 years old. But I can remember it like it was a black truck because I was 12 years old. But I can remember like it was yesterday. I've had nightmares about it forever. What did he look like? He was a white man.

And I was maybe 140 feet to 180 feet from him, so I couldn't tell you what he looked like. But I could tell he was white. And do you recall what he had on? He had a pants and shirt, but I mean, other than that, I just looked. Long pants. Yeah, long pants and a shirt. And I remember it because I looked at somebody that was walking with me. I said, did you just see that?

And when I heard her screaming and yelling, I said, oh, somebody done got in trouble. And, I mean, he almost, like I said, I must have fell because I got up. But when I did, I cussed him as he went by me. But he went out. Did you think that was her father i didn't know i just thought it was i didn't know because i didn't know debbie myself i had not had had met her or anything like that is the way i found out about it was the next day i had went to the little store that was in the marietta place and her brother was handing out flyers asking if anybody had seen anything or heard anything. And back then, I told him that I would talk to somebody because there was no other way he would have been able to get out except to go.

I lived on 4th Street, and if he went around 4th Street, he would still hit Fairground Street. If he had went straight, he would hit Fairground Street. I had another girl with me because we were taking her clothes to the laundromat. And, I mean, I don't know what happened with her because back then, seeing what the detective said, she was just, I don't know, I don't know. You know, I don't know what was going on with her. But when I saw her later on, and I mean, she had turned into an alcoholic. So, you know, that's been 30 years ago. At the time, did you ever get to talk to police?

Detectives came to my house when I lived on 4th Street, and that was the last thing I heard anything. I mean. Did you speak to them? From there on, I didn't hear anything else. Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes. And that was then, and then you never heard anything else about it? No, no.

Joining us right now, the man who has never let go of the Debbie Randall case, and our expert who says now, with DNA advances, there's a chance to catch her killer once and for all. With me right now, a renowned detective, Detective Morris Nix, who has been working the Debbie Randall case since the beginning. Also with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Joining me from L.A., Alan Duke.

Detective Nix, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me, Nancy. Detective, it means so much to us and I know to you to find Debbie's killer. And I want to start at the very, very beginning. Tell us what happened, to your knowledge, the evening Debbie went missing. Okay, Nancy, I have a couple of theories. One is that it was a random abduction. Of course, two is that he knew her. I've agonized over this. Would the abduction actually occur would have been directly across the street from where she lived. I don't think whoever did this would have done it had he known the family directly in front of the house. But then again, being a crime of opportunity, this may have been his best and only chance.

I'm kind of starting to lean, I don't know why, that somehow the family knew this person. Maybe not intimately, but they were acquainted with him. If not, then he was someone that would have blended into the neighborhood. This was a neighborhood where everybody knew everybody. As you know, Nancy, that's where neighborhoods are. So those are the two theories that I really wrestle with. But right now, I kind of lean toward the fact that he knew Debbie. Let me clarify, Cheryl McCollum, we have been, of course, watching carefully and studying and investigating the case of Molly Tibbetts' murder.

And cops said at the get-go, as did we, in a town that small of Brooklyn, Iowa, 2,000 people max, it had to be, I thought, there are always cases like Shasta and Dylan Groney in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, who lived out in the middle of a rural area. And this perv comes along the interstate and spots Shasta at an above ground pool and decides to pull off the interstate and kill her whole family and take her and her brother. It does happen, but it's rare. So we've always thought the person was someone the Tibbetts family knew. Well, it's somebody they knew of. It was a local that worked on a farm that was in and out of the local 7-Eleven and the grocery store and the Dairy Queen and the McDonald's. They didn't know each other by name, but they knew each other by sight. And that could very well be true in Debbie Randall's case, Cheryl.

Definitely. And you know, in the 70s, Nancy, Cobb County was not considered part of Metro Atlanta. Parts were extraordinarily rural. So this does seem to me like a crime of opportunity. I think he was aware of the laundromat and perhaps the playground. And the way the witness describes him pulling up, leaving the car running, the truck running, and the door open, he had a target. He grabbed her and gone. But a truck in Cobb County in the 70s would have blended in beautifully. Detective Nix, Cheryl, listen to this. Debbie was nine years old when she vanished. It's been more than 43 years, and still her death remains a mystery. Her big brother remembers it vividly.

I remember that day totally. I remember going to everybody's house that evening, you know, looking for her. For the next 16 days, Debbie's disappearance made national headlines. There were hundreds of people looking for this little girl. Then on a rainy evening at dusk, Debbie was found dead, lying face down, wearing the long-sleeved lavender dress she wore to school the day she was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. Debbie was nine years old when she vanished. It's been more than 43 years, and still her death remains a mystery. Her big brother remembers it vividly. I remember that day totally. I remember going to everybody's house that evening, you know,

looking for her. For the next 16 days, Debbie's disappearance made national headlines. There were hundreds of people looking for this little girl. Then on a rainy evening at dusk, Debbie was found dead, lying face down, wearing the long-sleeved lavender dress she wore to school the day she was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. What happened to Debbie Randall? When her body was finally found, many detectives say it was the worst crime scene they had ever seen. With me, Detective Morris Nix, who has never let go of the case. Also with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Joining me from LA, Alan Duke. Detective Nix, we got off on

a tangent regarding theories and possibilities, but I want to go back to the facts. That's how every case is solved. So start at the beginning. The evening Debbie is kidnapped. Okay, Nancy, Debbie had gone to the laundromat with her stepfather and he gave her some change, put it into the machine to do the laundry. And Debbie would collect the unused soap powders. So she got the soap powders put them in a box and she started out the door and okay wait a minute what does that mean what does that mean collect the unused soap powders and i know all about the laundromat cheryl mccollum you know for a long time we didn't have a washer or dryer and every sunday before we go to sunday evening services we go by the laundromat first and put in all the laundry, go to church,

then come back and get it that evening. Now there's no way you'd leave your laundry because you know somebody would either steal it or take it and throw it down. Oh, and you have to start all over. Anyway, what do you mean she collected soap? What did you say she collected? Soap. Soap powders. She was 30. If anybody

left any unused soap powders in a box or a pack, she would collect it and put it in the water. Oh, you mean like the detergent? She'd put it all together and then... Oh, sweet little thing. Oh, okay. They didn't have...

Cheryl, that just... I know. Maybe somebody bought like the little box of powder to do just individual laundry. If they left some in that box, she ran around and collected all of it so they would have more detergent for next time. Correct. Poor little thing. You know, I thought I was the only one left that would take home a doggy bag

or take the leftovers or, you know, pour the little bit of the ketchup in the new ketchup bottle. Oh, man. Just breaks my heart. Little thing trying to save money for her family okay go ahead back back to debt this is how you know this is how we go off on tangents people things just like this the soap powders all right off the soap powders it's my fault okay back on to debbie randall that evening she's at the laundromat, and I'm glad you clarified the stepfather left. Am I happy he left? No, because maybe if he had stayed, this wouldn't have happened.

But on the other hand, this also exonerates him. He was not there. And it's right across the street from their home, right? Well, the family took a lot of criticism over him leaving. But at that time, it's just not the world that it is today. Anyway, she collected the soap powder, and it's relevant because the detectives found the box of soap powders on the ground, and they had been scattered. And I've studied these photos over and over and over again, trying to look and see if

perhaps she slung them behind her and he was abducting her at a different point, or if she just dropped them. But we actually have the box of soap powders or box and evidence today. So she walks out the door, and one of the witnesses, one of her playmates, was going to go with her. And they were going to go play dolls at Debbie's, which was directly across the street. And her older sister said, no, you're not going anywhere. You're going to stay here and help me fold clothes.

She said, I saw Debbie go out the door and start toward her house. She said, I think someone called her back over to where they were at, and her knowing them, she went toward the truck. And, of course, we got the eyewitness that said he grabbed she went toward toward the truck and of course we got the eyewitnesses said he grabbed her right there at the truck the soap detergent where that was found is significant and so she abducts her he takes her there's three points of interest in this case where she was abducted where she was assaulted where she was abducted, where she was assaulted, and where she was left. So he takes her to a place we believe on Powers Ferry Road, Dixie Castle Stone, and he brutally assaults her.

The medical examiner said that she would have bled to death. We think that he used a foreign object. He redresses the body, takes the body, oh, less than a quarter mile down Powers Ferry Road, stops and puts the body in the woods. So we know that she was bleeding profusely. And I wonder if maybe she was messing his truck up,

so he just stops and gets rid of the body, or if perhaps he realized she wasn't dead, and he stopped the truck. I don't know. I've said before, for some reason, I just think he was headed to Chattahoochee River. I don't know why I feel that way, but it was a straight shot. At the time, this was a very rural area. There were no apartment buildings at that time,

nothing really. Where he left the body was the former parking lot of the Houston restaurant, but he abducts her, he takes her to a different location, assaults her, regresses the body, and then moves the body. I think he had to move the body. He could not leave the body there because people there knew him. I think he was an employee there. I just believe it. You mean an employee at Dixie Cast and Stone, correct? Yes, and I urge, if you have any listeners that know anyone who ever worked at Dixie Cast and Stone in 1972 on Powers Ferry Road,

please, please contact me. To Cheryl McCollum joining us, I think there are a lot of big clues. Number one, I've been listening intently to what former Cobb investigator Morris Dix was saying. A big clue is that someone called her, apparently called her over to the truck. Did they call her by name or did they say,

hey, little girl, come here? I mean, because that works too. The location is extremely important where we think the assault took place, number one. name or do they say hey little girl come here i mean because that works too uh the location is extremely important where we think the assault took place number one number two he redresses the body number four the body was then dumped in the woods and the location where a body is dumped or where the crime takes place is extremely important, especially where the body is dumped. We've talked about it a million times. I'll talk about it again. For instance, Scott Peterson dumps Lacey's body in the San Francisco Bay. Why? He's comfortable there. That's where he goes

fishing. He's a fisherman. So he goes to where he is familiar. Same thing. I mean, you can look and look and look. It happens every time. This last, I'll bring back up Molly Tibbetts. I mean, you can look and look and look. It happens every time. This last, I'll bring back up Molly Tibbetts. This guy, Rivera, accused of murdering Molly, lived about four miles from where Molly went missing. He drove by the disposal site where he dumped her body every single day. This is a place he knew of where he was familiar. If you look at crimes, that is a pattern you can almost always count on. So in this case, we find her body in the woods, little Debbie Reynolds, a third grade girl. It had to be someone familiar with that spot. And last, for you to evaluate Cheryl McCollum, Dixie Cast in Stone. If he worked there, if somebody he knew worked there,

if he had ever worked there, if he was a salesperson that called on that location, you know, fibers, soil, materials such as that, they did not have surveillance video, can be used in an investigation. Now, those are a few ideas I want you to analyze, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, but before you answer that, take a listen to our friend at CBS 46. This is Melinda Roeder. I just remember doing a lot of crime. As time ticked on, the case took many twists and turns. Every new lead brought hope, followed by disappointment for the Randall family, but never any answers. You try to forget about it, but you won't ever forget about it. Detectives now have a short list of suspects that they hope to narrow down to just one in the meantime Debbie's family believes someone may have information to help

them crack the case please tell it's been too long we are talking about a beautiful third grade a little girl Debbie Lynn Randall, just nine years old. I can remember the twins at nine. They believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny Still Comes. This is the world that little Debbie Randall lived in when she was kidnapped outside a laundromat right across from her home. The box of detergent dropped right where she was taken. Her little nine-year-old body was found horribly abused with a foreign object. She was bleeding profusely, her body dumped in the woods. It's a cold case now, but one man has not given up,

Detective Morris Nix, and joining me very well known dna expert the director of the cold case research institute cheryl mccullum also with me alan duke cheryl analyze what we know so far and why do you think there's a chance that with new dna breakthroughs we may be able to identify her killer. Well, Nancy, he grabbed her and put her in the truck. He forcibly then attacked her, which means he grabbed her and touched her clothing repeatedly. Then he takes the time to dress her back. So you're talking about touch DNA all over her clothing.

So at this point, Detective Mix has an opportunity to try the MBAT, which you know is the latest and greatest technology to extract DNA. Okay, hold on, Cheryl. Cheryl, don't rub it in. But the other day, you and I were on a televised press conference with Chandra Levy's mother and i i have a bone to pick with you cheryl mccollum you let me say hvac the whole way through the entire thing hvac the thing that you you know suck up water and dirt in your garage right it's in fact emma's and mother thank

you cheryl mccollum for letting me make a complete itch out of myself yet again. It's Mvac. Now, before you just sling out all these terms, explain to everybody what is an Mvac and what is so incredible about it. Most departments, mine included, we use a swabbing to try to collect DNA, which looks like a Q-tip. And so you just run it around something, but you miss so much doing it that way. The MVAT looks like a very small, no bigger than a, you know, small fish tank that looks like you're doing seam cleaning on a carpet. And what it does, it pushes the chemicals down into the item, and then it sucks it right

back up, and it collects all the DNA perfectly. And I mean all the DNA. And it's the best tool we have right now on cold cases, period. End of story. I cannot say enough about it. And the fact that this killer took such time with her and touched her clothing multiple times because again he had to grab her he had to fight her he had to control her he undressed her then he redressed her then he had to get her out of the car and then again grabbing her clothing leaving the touch dna

detect the mix has a wonderful opportunity to get evidence of who this person is. So Detective Nix, I want to go, Cheryl, I'm going to follow up with you in a second, but I want to, I want to go through how her body, how Debbie's body was found. I don't necessarily, I don't think it's true this time, but very often the person that's involved, the team that's involved with finding the body, they're all looked at as well as potential suspects. But tell me how her body was found. A group of fraternity guys at Southern Tech volunteered, so this is as many people did, and they were, the group were assigned an area, and this was their area and the guy who found David's name was Mike McAhaan and Mike was a Vietnam vet distinguished Vietnam vet and he told me he said I was walking

down the side of the road and I immediately noticed what looked like drag marks and he said so I followed it and he said he got down there and he saw her feet. And he said, I stopped. I didn't want to look at it. And so he went back and notified someone. Oh, man, you know what? Cheryl, you know, I don't even know how many people have asked me, but I can tell you how many cases I prosecuted, took to trial, investigated, pled, had hearings. I know it's a fantastical number, Cheryl, but, you know, 100 new felonies a week at the minimum when you're running a courtroom for

the state is in inner city Atlanta. That'd be 400 a month times 12 is 400. And know you add it up times 10 years that's a lot of cases and I would actually dream about finding dead bodies and it was always not a good thing in the dream it wasn't like aha I found evidence it was horrible when you come upon a dead body I always felt this sick feeling when I would go to crime scenes which I hid but when you come upon a dead body. I always felt this sick feeling when I would go to crime scenes, which I hid. But when you come upon a dead body, it's a moment you never forget. Never. Especially one of a child. And especially one of a child that has been brutalized. Your mind can't even really wrap around what you're looking at. And I think Detective Nix is on the right track where he's concentrating on the company that he mentioned, but I also think he needs to

concentrate on women that are about 55. This is not the first child this man has offered candy to. It's not the first child in that area he approached. And if you can somehow reach people that are having high school reunions or whatever in that area. We need to ask other people, did a truck ever approach you? Does this composite look like somebody you remember offering you candy or asking you to look for a lost puppy? This person felt comfortable there. This person knew that area. This person went to where he knew nobody would see him. Nancy, you remember a year ago, Sandra came forward. We heard from her earlier in the show. I thought it was interesting how she described why she came forward.

Let's listen to that. Sandra, you said that over these years, you have had one nightmare after the next about this incident. What do you dream about? I was a street kid back then and I mean I was that year I would have been 13 years old but my life had been really turned upside down with my mom and dad getting divorced. I was just mean. I was just really really mean back then. I was I really was mean and I mean I thought about this for 44 years you know and I always wondered where she was buried at and Detective Nix told me and so I want to go out and visit her grave and tell her

I'm sorry because if it had been just a few minutes later I would have been beside her. What is the bad dream you have? It's this dream about her and the things that she had went through. The man who done it, I can't see his face, but I can see him. You know, his face is, it's like his face is black, but I can, he was, I wouldn't say he was skinny. He was a medium built, maybe even a little bit chunky. I couldn't tell because of the shirt, but it's just about her. I mean, she was an angel, and this should not have happened to her. Detectives like Morris Nix continue to dig for clues, praying their persistence pays off.

If you're an investigator, if you're a detective, if you're a cop, that's what you live for, that phone call, that family saying sit down because I've got some good news for you. Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And I want to thank you again for being with us. We are highlighting what's called a cold case. But when you hear about the brutal, really the savage attack on a nine-year-old little girl being attacked with a foreign object, nearly bleeding to death because of the attack. Her body dumped in the woods like trash, callously thrown away. Can you imagine that night, her parents looking and looking and calling and calling and searching for her?

And it's only some days later that volunteers find her body what happened to Debbie Randall it has stumped police since the time of the incident but one detective has never given up and he is joining us now detective Morris Nix also with me director of the cold case Research Institute Cheryl McCollum and of of course, Alan Duke, joining me from L.A. Detective Nix, you say you want to deliver good news. I mean, there is no good news when it comes to the death of a little nine-year-old girl. But what is your dream?

You have now retired, but you're still on the case. What is your dream? I want justice for Debbie. This is someone who is not just a pedophile. He's a sadist. He's a cold-hearted, black-hearted sadist. I want to know who he is. I want her family to know who he is.

For me, it's just bringing closure to the family. That's pretty much it. Who is left of her family? Her mom is still living, and her dad is still living. Both are in very poor health. And, of course, she has a couple of siblings that are living. And her mom told me not long ago, she said, I want to know what happened to my little girl. And, you know, you try to call and update the family,

and you know when they answer the phone, they're hoping that you're going to tell them something bittersweet. And it's painful sometimes to call these families because you know the first thing you've got to tell them is, I don't have any answers. It's painful. And that's just, I really want to bring closure. And I had a dream not long ago that I won the lottery. And there was a press conference, and I offered $26 million to know who did it,

because that was more than Osama bin Laden. And I just, totally irrational doing but i just think how well just what a wonderful day it would be if we could bring this to an end i gotta tell you something morris what you just said is actually bringing tears to my eyes people that have not been in the criminal justice system, where they've never been a crime victim, it's so hard to explain. You get attached to your cases. Those victims and their families become part of your life, part of the fabric you're made from. You know, speaking of a dream, Cheryl, one time I dreamed I had moved to New York to start a show with Johnny Cochran. I had left the district attorney's office really only because

my elected district attorney, Mr. Slayton, was retiring and I did not want to go be a defense lawyer. And I figured the next DA that got elected was going to fire all the top litigators. And boy, was I right about that. But I remember someone said, hey, can we write your life story? And I, of course, was flattered. And that night I had a dream. I dreamed I was in New Orleans and I was sitting in a restaurant. They had an open window. It didn't have a pane on it. And a big New Orleans funeral started going by with, you know, the horses and the black plumage. And along came, instead of a casket, one carriage after the next full of all the victims I had ever represented in court. And in this dream, they were as I knew them, shot, stabbed, strangled, mangled, burned. And I mean, there was carriage after carriage after carriage after carriage.

And they were all looking at me. I'm like, and I knew right then I am not telling that story. That's their story, not my story to tell. And I turned the whole thing down. What I'm saying is it's part of your fiber. It's part of your life. These cases mean so much to you. And here is Morris Nix all these years later dreaming he wins the lottery and offering the whole thing to somebody to solve Debbie Randall's murder, Cheryl.

And he means it, Nancy. He lives it. This is part of him. This will tell you exactly what that man is about. And you can't say enough good about him, but I'm going to tell you something. When he said he hates the call because he has nothing new let me tell you the reality when that mama picks up that phone

she knows that there is somebody that still cares there is somebody still working there is somebody still dedicating his life to finding out who killed her child and for that there's no way to thank you for.

Thank you. It's true, Morris. And based on Morris's investigation, this is what we know about the suspect. He's a white male with a medium build. That evening, he wore long pants and a shirt. He drove a black pickup truck. He may have taken Debbie to the now-closed businessixie Cast and Stone, in Marietta, Georgia. Now, there were many, many day laborers who worked at Dixie Cast and Stone, possibly the suspect.

He may have worked there anywhere between 1968 and 1974 or called on the company. I've got a tip line for you. 770-528-3032. 770-528-3032. Morris, what is the status of DNA in Debbie's case? We have submitted some more DNA. We haven't gotten an answer back yet. I'm hoping that we get something, anything out of that. And Nancy, I want to touch on right quick too, that I'm assigned to a cold case unit and I don't work alone on this. I'm surrounded by some incredible people who work very hard. Of course, you know, we worked on a lot of other cases, Brad Clements being one of them. Congratulations on that one. Let me, you know, we worked on a lot of other cases, Brad Clements being one of them. Congratulations on that one. Let me tell you something.

Yeah, that's going to be interesting. I'm just part of, I'm a very, very small part of a great unit. And this is a Marietta Police Department case. Marietta PD has stepped up and said that whatever you need from us, we're here for you. And that makes it a lot easier. And if I could touch on something really quick is that I've heard you talk about this so much. Some people think they hand you a case and you work that case, and when that case is over, they hand you another. Well, you and I know the reality of it. You know, you're alive.

You come into work and your job won and you-five, and they give you 10 more. And next thing you know, your desk is covered up. And then you're trying to allocate your time, and then people start calling, well, what are you doing on my case? So time is just such a factor in cold cases. Time, having the money, and getting the publicity to keep it out in front of people. But detectives all over America, prosecutors all over America don't just get a couple of cases. And unfortunately, there's more crime than there are people to work on. And so a lot of people I don't think really understand what detectives and prosecutors deal with.

Guys, tip line 770-528-3032. I'm looking right now at the photo of 9-year-old Debbie Randall. If you want to know more about this case and how to solve it, go to crimeonline.com. Detective Morris Nix, Cheryl McCollum, Alan Duke, and Nancy Grace. Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.