Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mother and son disappear after emails allege husband's secret life

Episode Date: January 2, 2019

A married mother and her teenage disappeared from their Alabama home on Memorial Day 2017, but family secrets emerged months later that raised suspicions about the father. The mother and son are still missing and no one has been arrested. Nancy Grace looks at the mystery of what happened to Susan Osborne and 15-year-old Evan. Her panel includes forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan -- author of "Blood Beneath My Feet,"  Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, Seattle lawyer Anne Bremner, former federal prosecutor Francey Hakes, and Crime Stories reporter John Lemley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find out how to protect your child when you're out at the mall or the store, the grocery, in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters and daycare, even online. I'd rather have that any day of the week than a plastic toy or, God forbid, a toy gun. Join Justice Nation. Go to crimestopshere.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The last time Linda visited them in Alabama was Mother's Day. She took me out for a manicure pedicure. We did lunch. It was a great

visit but just a few weeks later something completely out of the ordinary happened. I went to Michigan in June for my granddaughter's graduation and I was sending her pictures all the time and I wasn't hearing anything. She wasn't answering for several days. Linda says her daughter had never gone more than a day or two without returning her text or phone calls. And my last text was jokingly, Susie, if you don't answer my text, I'm going to have to come to Alabama and look for you. Where is Susan Osborne and her son, Evan? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

A gorgeous mom, Susan Osborne, goes missing, seemingly without a trace. But what happened? Still no answers. Straight out to John Limley joining us. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter John Start at the beginning. This case has been troubling not only for family, Nancy, but also the best friend. That's the best friend of Susan's, Holly Hatfield Morris. She has been wondering now for months and months what became of her friend. Susan, her son Evan, and her husband all lived in Holtville. This is just north of the Alabama State Capitol, Montgomery,

in a nice little neighborhood. Seemed like, as we say so many times, the perfect little family. Then one day around Memorial Day, late May, Evan and his mom absolutely gone. Since friends and family lived out of town, she was really isolated there with her family. So it was days before people realized that she wasn't where she was supposed to be. Very little is known about the day that Susan goes missing with her beloved son, Evan. But listen to what Susan's mom, Linda, says. Linda considered calling the police, but didn't want to upset her daughter, who was always very private. She said, I just don't want the police to go to her door. And she's going to say, this is ridiculous that you're checking up on me. She even sent Susan a letter, but to her shock, it soon came back marked not deliverable.

It made me sick and that letter came. Mysteriously, around the same time, Susan also stopped responding to her best friend, Holly, who had moved away to South Florida just before Memorial Day. The phone was disconnected. I started thinking, okay, is she mad at me because I moved? Then when I couldn't get anyone on Evan's phone either, and then they were both disconnected, I knew something had to be wrong. Neither knew how to reach Susan's husband, Jerry. I had no number for Jerry. I knew he worked at the Air Force Base. You are hearing our friends at Crime Watch daily,

Susan Osborne seemingly vanishing without a trace. How can that be with a son in tow? We know this. Susan and her son, Evan, were last seen in Holtville, Alabama on May 29. They lived in a very nice neighborhood on Waterview Lane with a second husband of four years. Straight out to Justice Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. I also learned that her two dogs, her beloved dogs, they were like her babies in addition to her son Evan, were later found at an animal shelter and they had actually not been found wandering the streets.

I'll never forget when our cat Cinnamon got away and we found her at a shelter. These two had actually been dropped off. Okay? The pets were dropped off. Now, that doesn't preclude Joe Scott Morgan, someone finding them if they had gotten out of the yard and taking them in. But that speaks volumes to me. The pets were actually dropped off. Yeah, it does. And isn't that peculiar? This woman who is characterized as loving these pets,

why would she suddenly just decide to hand these animals over to, you know, to the shelter? That seems completely out of the norm in what you would think. I mean, I have dogs, and we're very, they travel with us everywhere, Nancy, and live with us. I can't imagine that. Well, of course, to you, joining me, Ann Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle. When I first met you, you told me about an elevator-riding cat, your cat, Jimmy. And at first you kept talking about Jimmy

like he was your baby. And then I found out he is your baby, was your baby, a furry baby. And you would tell me as we would sit together at the set on Court TV for hours and hours watching live trials about how Jimmy had learned to ride the elevator and that he would go to the elevator and wait for someone to push the down button and he'd walk on like he was a person. And then he recognized the floors and when he would get to the lobby and someone would, the elevator would open on the lobby, he would walk out and then he'd wait. And when somebody would open the door to go outside, he would go outside. And then he'd come back in the very same way and come right back to the correct floor and go into your part I mean it was just amazing to me

so my the first red flag I saw is when I find out her beloved dogs were left at the pound oh absolutely I mean I'm yeah I love Jimmy Now I've got Jim and Jimmy and they're having a little cat fight right now in front of me. I hope you can't hear it, but they're like babies. And both pets, their names were Snook and Sugar, and she loved them like her own babies. And one got adopted out. Huge red flag. I mean, huge red flag. And I think that the idea of those two little animals, their little faces there, that she would never, ever have left them. With me, guys, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor and also named by the federal government as really the czar of child protection, recovering abducted children. Francie, thank you for being with us.

I think it's really hard to just disappear without a trace, much less with your son in tow. Nancy, you're absolutely right. It's not just hard. I think it's mostly impossible to disappear without a trace. It's one thing for one person to do it with planning. It's quite another for a mother and son. And I think the significance of her pets being left at the pound cannot be overstated. She, it seems just on that fact alone, she has to have been met with foul play. I fear for her and her son. Listen to this. What happened to Susan Osborne and her son Evan? Just as if they just fell off the face of the earth. Missing since Memorial Day, her family spent the summer worried sick.

I cry myself to sleep a lot. I'd wake up with nightmares. But bad dreams were about to become real life. After a full two months with Susan and Evan missing, Susan's mother finally reports the disappearance to the Elmore County Sheriff's Department. We're 60 days behind the eight ball trying to work a missing person's case. That's not a good situation to be in. Susan also stopped responding to her best friend, Holly,

who had moved away to South Florida just before Memorial Day. The phone was disconnected. I started thinking, okay, is she mad at me because I moved? Then when I couldn't get anyone on Evan's phone either, and then they were both disconnected, I knew something had to be wrong. Nothing indicated what had happened to Susan Osborne and her son, Evan. But reality to Francie Hague's former federal prosecutor, the reality is cops have to look at the husband. Now, when she married him, she thought for sure she had gotten, quote, a keeper. After a day of fishing with her son, Evan, on the Coosa River, Susan Osborne told her best friend Holly she'd caught a keeper.

She's like, I think he's the one I really want to give a chance. She was talking about Air Force veteran Jerry Osborne. From the day the two met, Holly says Susan was head over heels. I remember her sending me pictures of texts and she goes, this is the guy I'm really, really liking right now. Jerry was the first man Susan dated after her divorce from Evan's father. The following year, they were married. Cops have to look at the husband, the boyfriend, the ex, because overwhelmingly, statistically, that is who is responsible when there is foul play. But in

this case, there's no evidence of foul play, Francie. No, and Nancy, you know, one of the things that has struck me so much about this case is Susan's mom. I'm not blaming her in any way, but I do not understand how any mother could wait 60 days to call the police from a daughter that she used to talk to or at least text with every day or two. My panic alert would have been on high by this time. Well, take a listen to Susan's mother right now, speaking at Crime Watch Daily. Linda admits she hardly knew Susan's new husband. Now, after two months, she finally called the sheriff for help. Right away, deputies spot something curious. Susan's car in the driveway.

When we pulled up to the residence, we started to realize that this was probably more in depth than we initially thought. With a knock on the door, they learn Susan and Evan aren't there, only her husband, Jerry Osborne. Mr. Osborne opens the door and he's thoroughly cleaning his residence. Then Jerry drops a Dear John surprise. What does he tell you about his wife's disappearance? That on Memorial Day, she decided to leave him. A man had come and picked her up and her son up. Okay, that doesn't sound right. Joining me from LA, renowned psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany, some other man picked her up. That does not sound right.

You know, Nancy, the person I keep thinking about is Evan, her 15-year-old son. It's not just the mother who disappeared, Susan. It's 15-year-old Evan. Wasn't he enrolled in school? Didn't he have friends? What about people in the neighborhood? If he really moved somewhere else, if Susan took off with another man and took her son with him, wouldn't she have enrolled her son in school somewhere else? Also, nobody just disappears. If I disappeared on any given day, there would be unanswered emails, appointments unattended to multiple people besides my mother that I'm in contact with on a daily basis. So I'm wondering, where are all the other people who were left holding the bag or who were left, you know, at a lunch that she should have attended

or some other appointment. And then we learn that the husband produces evidence, he says, proves they were alive and well after they so-called disappeared. The jury tells cops the next day Susan returned, taking furniture and other items from the house. He also claimed to have proof that Susan and Evan were still alive. He was able to produce a medical bill for Evan that he had obtained oral surgery a few days after they had supposedly left. The bill was for a no-show, for a missing appointment. Detectives are quickly realizing that Jerry's explanations just don't quite add up. The next

day, they return to his house armed with a search warrant and find him busy cleaning, just like the day before. When he found out that we actually were there to investigate the matter, it would appear that he did some follow-up cleanup. That's from our friends at Crime Watch Daily, but to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us from LA, it wasn't long before cops began to uncover secrets in the husband's past. Listen, Bethany. In January of 2016, Susan forwarded Holly emails that had been written by Jerry. The first email she sent me was the screenshot of the emails back and forth between him and her man. And then the second email she sent me the same day was the profile page back from 2011 for the escort page. Where he was

essentially prostituting himself that's what it appears to be holly says her jaw dropped hi there guys my name is jay but there it was in print jerry's ad on a website called boyscourt.com i'm looking for older generous gentlemen to spend some quality time with your satisfaction is guaranteed every time. Your sexy boy toy is waiting. Holly says Susan was certain her husband Jerry was the one pictured in the ad. How was Susan able to identify Jerry? Because it's from behind. Yes, she said she was able to identify him from the tattoos. And then there's a bow? Yes. A gift bow on his right cheek.

Okay, that's something I don't see coming if I look in a magazine and see my husband David with a gift bow on his rear end. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I mean, remember she said after she went fishing with the husband Jerry and her son Evan, she found a, quote, keeper.

I mean, the duality of the personality. I mean, how do you recognize him in this gay prostitute ad? Excuse me, gay escort. I think she knows her own husband's rear end. I'm sure she does. You know the most suspicious phrase that I've ever heard? He looks great on paper. Well, if somebody just looks great on paper, something's wrong.

You have to, in your intimate relationships, pay attention to all kinds of factors. Is the person empathic? Do they love you? Are they connected to you? Do you know where they are most of the time? Do their stories ring true? Does everything add up? I have a hard time believing that when she saw this ad, it's the first time she thought something was suspicious. You know, I do treat people in my practice who lead double lives. I have people who tell me how hard it is to navigate between one life with a spouse and another life with lovers. And usually they're surprised that the

wife or husband doesn't already know. So somehow I feel like you're trying to blame her. I mean, she did find out. She found out and I'm sure she confronted him. Listen to this. Holly isn't the only person Susan told about Jerry's alleged prostituting past. She called me and she was very, very upset, very sick. She said, mom, I need to explain something to you and tell you what I found. Linda Anklum says her daughter wanted advice about what she should do. So I had asked her, you know, you need to talk to him and find out why. Because I thought this only happened in the past. But I think that she believed it was happening all along. Linda

says she never talked about it with her daughter again. But Susan did continue to confide in Holly. So Susan finds out that at some point her husband was a male prostitute and currently he's cheating on her with other men. Does she confront him? She did later down the road at one point start mentioning to him something she found out because he asked her why she wouldn't sleep in the bed with him. But she says Susan didn't tell Jerry everything. She knew a lot more than what she ever let on to him. That's because Holly says Susan needed to carefully plan her escape before she could leave her husband. So she said, I have to get a job first. I cannot put the kids without insurance. Holly, however, isn't sure if Susan was really serious about walking away. I know she loved him. And there were times that I would think with her,

it was like she was in denial and she didn't want to leave him. The last thing she said to me on May 16th, the day we left Alabama, was that they loved each other and that they had worked things out. Worked out a photo of him naked, buck naked, with a gift bow on his rear end, being a hooker, a male escort. I mean, Dr. Bethany, how do you work that out, especially if it's going on during the marriage? I mean, if you come into the marriage and you come clean and say, I did one, two, three, four. Do you still love me? And I can change. I mean, can the person change but what is it why do people

especially women want so desperately to quote work it out I know Nancy the idea of loss feels like a catastrophe to most people they would rather die than leave a relationship. I see that so much in my practice and they don't work it out. What happens in this case is that Susan probably either went into denial or refused to put her thoughts together about the reality of what was happening. Or perhaps her husband lied and said, look, you know, I was desperate for money. I decided to prostitute myself. He probably concocted some strange story like, you know, if I was with women, you would have thought it was cheating. So I decided to hook up with men instead. You know, people tell the strangest stories to rationalize their actions, but no, they didn't work it out.

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So Susan finds out that at some point her husband was a male prostitute and currently he's cheating on her with other men. Does she confront him? She did later down the road at one point start mentioning to him something she found out because he asked her why she wouldn't sleep in the bed with him. But she says Susan didn't tell Jerry everything. She knew a lot more than what she ever let on to him. That's because Holly says Susan needed to carefully plan her escape before she could leave her husband. So she said, I have to get a job first.

I cannot put the kids without insurance. Holly, however, isn't sure if Susan was really serious about walking away. I know she loved him, and there were times that I would think with her, it was like she was in denial and she didn't want to leave him. The last thing she said to me on May 16th, the day we left Alabama, was that they loved each other and that they had worked things out. Where are Susan Osborne and her son Evan? And why was she so desperate to hold on to a relationship

with a second husband that she found out had been working as an escort? And you'd never know it. Beautiful home, nice neighborhood, the family, the house, the trees in the front yard, the respectable job. It was all fake. With me, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor. Wait in, Francie. Well, Nancy, sadly, this does not surprise me. I see in my own cases, I see women all the time who do shocking and horrific things to attract and keep a man, including molesting their own children. We have reports of desperate women writing love letters to family killer Chris Watts, expressing their love for him. They would marry him in a second.

I have seen it before. I'll never understand it, but sadly it's not surprising that women, some women, are so desperate to keep a man. Without any real clue, police turned to forensics, but that was difficult. Listen to Crime Watch Daily. During their initial visit, detectives say Jerry was busy cleaning. They also learned that he'd done an extensive summer remodel of his home all by himself. He had freshly painted the inside of his house. New carpeting had been installed. Old flooring had been taken up by him and disposed of.

New furniture had been put in the house, and he had burned and disposed of multiple pieces of furniture. Wow. To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, that certainly presents a forensic nightmare. Even the floor had been pulled up and replaced. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever encountered a case where they actually pulled up the floor other than, you know, they're searching for dead bodies under the house. This is striking, Nancy, and I'm wondering if he's gone to this length. We're talking about furniture. We're talking about flooring. We're talking about covering floors with new carpet. This is rather extensive. I don't know if this guy's just got OCD or if this was potentially a dearth of biological evidence that, you know, might be associated with copious amounts

of blood. And, you know, Ann Bremner, I always get suspicious when around the time that the woman disappears, the husband turns into a remodeling freak or a neatnik. Remember Scott Peterson had to rush to do laundry and mop the floor with bleach when Lacey went missing. Remember that, Ann? Absolutely. Yeah, he was in a cleaning frenzy. Absolutely. Ann, if I see my husband take out a mop in the bleach, I'm hiding under the bed. Listen to Elmore County Sheriff Detective Chris Ogden. According to Detective Ogden, there shouldn't have been much to clean. He says Jerry had pulled off a major home makeover in just two months.

The house appeared to be almost completely remodeled on the inside. Susan's friend Holly was in the house just weeks before Susan vanished and says a remodel was definitely not needed. She had repainted the house probably less than six months before this. So it was unnecessary to rip up the hardwoods and put carpet down? There was no reason. I mean, ripping up hardwood? That puts detectives in a very tough quandary.

To Joseph Scott Morgan, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, what can you do in a situation like that? Yeah, if you're searching for any kind of evidence, you know, the one curious thing is this. If, in fact, he had ripped up old carpet, and let's just say, you know, for an intellectual exercise here, the carpet was super saturated with blood, for instance. Seep through to the underpinning or the subflooring. You could still find traces of blood in that subflooring, even though new carpet has been placed over the top of it.

Take a listen to this. Because of the thorough cleaning and extensive remodel, curious detectives were now left with one critical tool in the search for evidence. What's referred to as luminol. Luminol is a chemical used to detect blood not visible to the naked eye. Detectives reveal luminol used in the home unmasked a stunning development. How many indications of it? It was approximately 20. Possible blood evidence was found in the kitchen, laundry room, and guest bathroom. When you have this high number, is that indicative of something sinister, a foul play? That's very indicative of something that's long, violent lines of not a finger cut by

any stretch of the imagination. And you're saying you were only able to detect it with luminol because someone, in this case, you think Jerry, went through great lengths to try to clean it up. Absolutely. Our friends at Crime Watch Daily reporting to Justice Scott Morgan, death investigator, forensics professor, Jacksonville State University.

Explain how luminol works, Joe Scott. Well, just so that folks at home understand, if you see something that you think is blood at the scene, you have to find out whose blood it is or if it is in fact blood. With Luminol, you have traces of blood that, say, for instance, have been wiped away from an evidentiary standpoint. You can't see it with the unaided eye, but the substance itself, the chemical structure of it, actually it with the unaided eye, but the substance itself, the chemical structure of it,

actually binds with the protein molecules that are contained in our blood, and it causes it to luminesce. You have to look at it with specific lighting, but boy, it really pops on the camera and really glows. Guys, the evidence, as scant as it is, leaves investigators, detectives, and police in quite a quandary. What can they do? There's no trace of her anywhere. Ann Bremner, it sounds so much like the case you were involved with, Susan Powell, who goes missing. And her children, her two little boys, when asked where's mommy, they draw a picture of her in daddy's car trunk. But her body's never found, and he insisted that she just left.

Absolutely. And Josh had been cleaning the couch, but didn't clean it well enough because there were blood droplets there in the house. He had some fans pointed at the couch. But she didn't take her purse. She didn't take her keys. And Nancy, she's been missing now for almost 10 years. And they've never found her body. That's Susan Powell.

And, of course, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor. We all are intimately familiar with the case of Stacey Peterson, married to then-cop Drew Peterson. Her body has never been found. And according to Drew Peterson, she just took off with another man and there's no way to prove it or disprove it. Very suspicious behavior, Nancy. And these stories just don't make any sense. Women just don't disappear without a trace. They certainly don't go anywhere. Nancy, you and I are Southern women. We don't go anywhere without our purse. We've got to have a lipstick and a compact in case we need to powder our nose and press in our lipstick so i don't believe for one second that she left without her keys her purse or her beloved dog

take a listen to detective chris ogden what happened to susan osborne and her son evan just as if they just fell off the face of the earth missing since memorial day her family spent the summer worried sick i cry myself to sleep a lot. I'd wake up with nightmares. But bad dreams were about to become real life. After a full two months with Susan and Evan missing, Susan's mother finally reports the disappearance to the Elmore County Sheriff's Department. We're 60 days behind the eight ball trying to work a missing person's case. That's not a good situation to be in. But Jerry told detectives his wife wasn't missing. He claimed she left him for another man on Memorial Day.

Who's this man? He was not able to provide anything other than a vague physical description. Jerry had also bought several pieces of new furniture, telling cops he burned the old furniture in the backyard, including mattresses and bed frames. People living nearby on Waterview Lane were all too familiar with Jerry's fires. So much just aroma and smell of plastics burning. Nikki Miller says there were days during the summer when the sky was completely filled with smoke.

So much smoke they couldn't even go outside in their yard. And this is four and five houses down. With all the remodeling and cleaning detectives were worried any evidence of foul play might be lost forever. Wow you know the cops behind an eight ball they know or believe this woman Susan Osborne did just take off with her son Evan. This is after she found, quote, a keeper, her husband. She later finds emails and ads proving that he is an escort, a gay escort. That's quite a secret to hide from your spouse. They say, how do you know it's him? She said, from the tattoos. So, John Lindley, joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

What did cops do so far to track down Susan Osborne? Well, they have been on a massive hunt, but their hunt has not taken them far from the family house because evidence keeps mounting up that something happened in that house, especially when it comes to blood evidence. Guys, the disappearance of Susan Osborne and her son Evan, highly, highly unusual. You know, Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor, it's hard enough to go under the radar. But to go under the radar with a tween, a son, Evan, and nobody notice he's enrolled at a new school, the grandparents never hear from her, nothing? Nancy, I don't believe it. I mean, I think it is literally unbelievable. I don't think that you disappear for literally no reason with a tween never to be heard from again. Friends,

family, no one's heard from her. I just don't think that makes any sense at all. It's not credible. And I think the police are right to look at the husband. Well, then police bring in the scent dogs. Investigators say two cadaver dogs detected possible human remains at or near a 55-gallon drum where Jerry burns his trash. But none were ever found. Nothing is there right now. Because he was burning something. Absolutely.

Sheriff Franklin also believes some very suspicious evidence was found on Jerry's computer, but he's not reviewing exactly what that evidence is. Are we talking about in the vein of how to dispose a body, how to get rid of blood? It's not what me or you or any other person would search for. I don't know how in the world he would explain that away. Well, the cadaver dog hits never divulged anything. Joe Scott Morgan, a forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, I'm a great believer in cadaver dogs.

Now, true, they can pick up on any type of human tissue or anything, like you cut your face shaving and dab your face with toilet paper and then throw it away, they'll hit on it. But I'm a firm believer in cadaver dogs, Joe Scott. Yeah, and if I can just kind of make a leap here, intellectual leap, one of the things that's connecting this story, and we go all the way back to the beginning, what we're thinking here is the fact that these two people were connected by water nancy the coosa river remember she she had found a keeper well they had been out fishing coosa river is really not that far away from their

home as a matter of fact they live in a in a river community uh they are on the coosa river in alabama just north of montgomery so one of my thoughts is This area where the cadaver dog hit On human tissue maybe Just maybe those bodies were rendered Down potentially as a result Of burning them and then taken To the river and subsequently dumped That has been the speculation in the Stacey Peterson

Case for so long Because a relative of husband Drew Peterson then cop Said that he helped carry What he believed to be stacy peterson's body in a cooler out of the home and put into a vehicle same thing here you're absolutely right now when neighbors reported that that summer a husband burned multiple items of furniture on the property so you saying he may have burned the bodies would make sense because it fits in with burning all the furniture. This is another interesting fact.

To Ann Bremner, a high-profile Seattle lawyer, the house had a very elaborate security system. They had cameras at every door. But by the time cops started investigating, all the footage was gone. And the husband had bought an entire replacement system. That's unusual to suddenly change your home security. Well, as you always say, Nancy, what a quinky dink. I mean, in terms of

the timing, you know, the circumstantial evidence is mounting when you look at everything we've talked about so far. And you know, in the Powell case, the Josh Powell case, my case with Susan Powell, they think that he burned her. Remember, the kids said mommy's in the mine, mommy's in the back of the truck. You know, we went camping at midnight to a two-year-old and a four-year-old in the snow with their dad and mommy never came home. And then he burned his kids, too.

But we also had a cadaver dog in that case. And that cadaver dog indicated on the trunk of the car of Michael Powell Josh's brother you know since Susan went missing and correct me if I'm wrong John Lindley crime online.com reporter there has been no activity on her credit cards social media on her cell phone her very best friend said she had never said anything about seeing another man and seemed to have changed her mind and decided to stay with the husband none of the son's prescriptions have ever been refilled since he disappeared he missed that oral surgery appointment that was had been scheduled for a few days later he was set to start sophomore year at holtville high school that fall, and the school never got any requests from any other school

for his transcripts. I mean, what's the holdup? John Limley, has the husband ever been named as a suspect, a person of interest? He is considered a person of interest in the disappearance of his wife and his stepson, but he continues to maintain his innocence. So what can you do in a case like this, Francie Hakes? Well, Nancy, I think you have to go with the evidence. The evidence is very strong. You and I both know that you can prosecute a case without bodies. You can charge murder even if you don't have bodies. You've got blood in the house. You've got him burning evidence. You've got the cadaver dog alerting. You've got the confrontation that must have occurred between them because of the Internet searches that she found, the Internet evidence that she found. You have her leaving without a trace. You have no contact since. This is all actually quite a strong circumstantial case for murder. I agree with you. But again, he has not been named a formal suspect. I want to thank our friends at Crime Watch D.L.E. for all their incredible work and investigation on this case.

Take a listen to this. Investigators and family wonder, did something cause Jerry to snap and murder both his wife and stepson. We obviously think that, you know, this lady and her son, you know, they're, it doesn't look good right now. Cops say Susan may have uncovered too many of her husband's secrets. At this point, is Jerry Osborne a suspect? He's a person of interest. When I said Jerry Osborne, is he a person of interest,

you're confidently nodding yes. Well, he's definitely a person of interest and he's probably our only person of interest. Detectives confirm that possible blood evidence has been found inside Jerry Osborne's house. It's currently being tested to determine if it belongs to Susan or Evan. The tip line, if you have information or believe you have information on missing Susan Osborne and son Evan, please call the Elmore County Secret Witness Hotline, 334-567-5227. Repeat, 334-567-5227. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.