Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MOTHER'S PAIN, SON MOWED DOWN BY JEALOUS EX WHO STALKED WITH AIRTAG

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

An Indiana woman is accused of using Airtags to track her love interest to a bar, where he is having drinks with another woman. 26-year-old Gaylyn Morris reportedly confronted Andre Smith and another woman at Tilly’s Pub in Indianapolis. The ensuing argument gets all three thrown out of the pub.  Once outside, witnesses say Morris got into her black Chevrolet Impala and drove forward, knocking Smith down. She then reportedly put the vehicle in reverse and drove forward over him again. Medics located Smith’s body under Morris’ car outside the bar. He was pronounced dead at the scene.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Laprecia Sanders - Victim's Mother  Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, CCEAlaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Lee Reiber - Mobile Device Forensic Expert, COO: Oxygen Forensics, Inc., Author: "Mobile Forensic Investigations: A Guide to Evidence Collection, Analysis, and Presentation", oxygen-forensic.com, Twitter: @Celldet and @oxygenforensic  Richard Essex - Investigative Reporter, WISH-TV, Twitter: @RichardEssexIII, Facebook: RichardEssexTV  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What you don't expect when you leave a restaurant, say Applebee's or IHOP or wherever you may be, is for a car to gun your boy, your son, the one that you have poured all your love, all your energy, your hopes, and your dreams to see him mowed down like a dog in a parking lot. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111,

where we are dedicated to solving unsolved homicides, to finding missing people, especially children, all across our country and to address injustice first of all take a listen to our friends at wish tv smith was pronounced dead just before one o'clock friday morning his family had rushed to the scene on east 82nd street many of them saw his lifeless body trapped under a car. It's a memory that will haunt them forever. So be he like an edible industry.

I don't want nobody to love me that hard. If you've got to take my life. The emotions are still very raw. Smith's aunts, Renika and Sandra Day, described the last minutes of their nephew's life. A lot of my nephews, Renika's cousins, our nephews and cousins and sons, seeing our loved one up underneath the car, crying for help. As he was trying to raise his head up, ran over my gift. Like a dog in the street. I have a vision that still haunts me to this day. I was on the way

to one of my nephew's graduations. And in this like eight lane highway, somebody had hit a cat. And the little cat was trying to raise its head and get up and get away. This young man, this beautiful young man, really at the beginning of his life, Andre Smith, the thought of him being mowed down, seemingly on purpose, under that cart, trying to get up, trying to raise up before he died. Did you hear the crying and the sobs in the background? Take a listen again to our friend Richard Essex at WISH-TV. It's just compelling and overwhelming. Within minutes, Smith was pronounced dead by the Indianapolis Fire Department. His last moments are replayed in the collective memory of his family.

And it replays every time I blink right now. It replays every time we have to talk about it or if I'm asleep at night. So I can only imagine how my sister is feeling right now. I can only imagine. It's one thing to, you know, injure or wound a person, but to take a life. While they are yelling for help, help me. A young man and a young lady inside of Talley's, whoever you are, our hearts go out to you and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. They ran out of there.

And even in the midst of all that pain, Andre's family thanking two of the patrons in the restaurant that came out and tried to help, but to no avail. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now in the brutal murder of this young man in the prime of his life, growing up into the man his mother wanted him to be. First, I want to go to a special guest joining us. This is Andre's mother. Ms. Sanders, I do not know how you have the strength to put one foot in front of the other.

You know I have twins, and even being away from them when they go to scout camp, for Pete's sake, is I hate it. I hate every minute of it. I'm just so sorry, Ms. Sanders, what you're going through. First of all, what are your days and nights like as you relive over and over learning that your son was killed?

Nancy, it's hard for me to sleep at night. I can't focus during the day. My son's death is weighing heavy on my heart. I just, it's horrible. Like, I can't stop thinking about my son, and I wish I could have been here to help him.

I remember, Ms. Sanders, that after Keith's, my fiance, Keith's murder, I would wake up in the morning and for about maybe two, maybe three seconds, I wouldn't remember. I'd wake up and think as normal and then it would hit me like a brick. Keith was murdered. And then it would start the whole thing all over again. How do you get through the day?

I'm currently taking anxiety medications. I have to take them throughout the day, because if I don't, I'm crying all day. I keep crying and crying and crying. When did you learn? Do you remember that moment you learned Andre had been mowed down? Yes, I remember it. I can't forget it. I had gotten a call from one of my family members and told me that my son, this was the words that came out of my family member's mouth, that he wasn't responding. And I'm like, I asked my family member, who are you talking about? And he stated, Andre. I immediately rushed to Community North Hospital in Indianapolis looking for my son. I had no idea what was going on. I just was looking for my baby. And I was going crazy at that time because I hadn't gotten a call from the police or anyone. So I ran to Community North Hospital looking for my baby, and he wasn't there.

You are giving me chills all down my arms and legs right now because that feeling of trying to get there and not knowing what's happening. I remember I was in New York with my twins when I found out they wanted to put my dad on life support. I got them dressed up out of the bed and out in the street at midnight trying to get home. And that feeling, you don't know what's happening. You can't find them. You're not there. It's awful.

It's terrible. So you're at the hospital. what happened when you got to the hospital they didn't have any information on my son andre um so a family member had reached out at this time i'm with my sister because i had blacked out i had parked somewhere my sister found me and she came got me and um my sister ended up talking to one of the family members and they explained to us where my son body was located to your lord in heaven did you say you you blacked out yeah like my sister um she was able i guess she me and her we share locations so she found where i was at i was at a Speedway gas station near my home.

I guess I was driving out of my apartment, my condo, and I ended up at a Speedway. And my sister found me. When she found me, somehow I came back to my senses. And then that's where we continued on to go where the family member told me my son's body was. Joe Scott Morgan with me. Joe Scott, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Death Investigator, Star of a New Hit series,

Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart. I could go on. But Joe Scott, what is that? Because I know I'm projecting a lot right now, but I just keep thinking back when I went to Keith's funeral, I did not want to see his body. I don't know why, but at that point in my life, I did the very top of his face above the edge of the coffin and passed out. I passed out right there and came to the smell of those, that horrible smell of carnations,

you know, that cloying smell. What is that, Joe Scott, when you, Ms. Sanders, this is Andre Smith's mother, say, she blacked out, which I take to mean pass out. What is it? How do you get so upset you pass out? There's no greater pain in this world than death. I've had a lot of people talk about it. Of course, I've seen it throughout my career.

And it hits you in a place that's almost primal. Because in my estimation, you're suddenly face-to-face with the finality of the end of it, the end of life. What happens in your body? It's almost like a shock, a sudden shock. And when I say that, I'm talking about you'll have a dip in blood pressure. You get faint, lightheaded. The world just seems to swim about you. I've experienced this with deaths in my own family as well.

I think a lot of us have. And it's just that final realization. And it's hard. I've just never really thought it through about what happened when I saw part of Keith's face in that coffin. But I just completely fell out. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us in the Atlanta jurisdiction, AngelaArnoldMD.com. Dr. Angie, I guess Joe Scott would have a physical explanation about your blood pressure dropping. I bet you would have a psychiatric or psychological explanation.

Well, you know, Nancy, it's traumatic. So in all of these cases, what you're describing is a trauma. And we never know how our body has a fight or flight response. And we just lose everything inside of you know, our body has a fight or flight response. And we just lose everything inside of ourselves when there's such a trauma. And that's why it's so difficult to recover from a trauma. And I understand that the mom is taking some anti-anxiety medicine. There are other, there's some good types of therapy that I can recommend for her.

I'm going to hook you two up when we get off the air, Dr. Angie. Wonderful. And I want to tell you, I really appreciate you offering that. Thank you, Nancy. Because she can't get enough help right now. And Nancy, it's a trauma. It is a trauma. And you have to go through, if you can go through, it's never going to make it better or different for her.

But she has to survive because she's the survivor in this. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about, and I mean a gorgeous young man, talking about 26-year-old Andre. I mean, big smile, all decked out, and some really expensive tennis shoes. I don't know what those are, but just smiling at the camera. And he looks like a grown man to us, but to Ms. Sanders, that's her little baby. And thinking about her hunched over the wheel of a car

at a, did you say a Speedway gas station? Yes, ma'am, my sister. Like I said, we share locations. And to my knowledge, I passed out because when she got there, she was shaking. I was bent over the steering wheel. She was shaking me like, get up, get up, precious, get up. And I woke up and she said, come on. She grabbed my arm.

My nephew was on the other arm and they were taking me to her car. That's when I woke up and noticed that I was with my sister at that time. When did you next see your son, Andre? When we got to Tilly's pub where his body was laying underneath a car. You actually saw him underneath the car? Yeah, the detectives would not let me come closer, but I see his legs and his penis underneath the car. All I wanted to do was see my child, and they would not let me get close to him because of the severity of his face. He was stuck underneath the car. Richard Essex joining me, and earlier you heard his voice. Our friend at WISSH-TV, he is their prime investigative reporter.

You can find him on Twitter, at Richard Essex 3, Roman numeral 3. Richard, I would feel this way, the way I'm feeling right now, every time I started a murder case. Because sometimes the facts are like a big wave. They just come and just hit you and knock you over. And when I hear Ms. Sanders talking about passing out at that Speedway gas station, out there all alone in her car, knowing her son is dead,

and then being taken, and seeing him up under a car, outside a restaurant parking lot, in a restaurant parking lot. You start me off, Richard Essex. Thank you for being with us. What happened that night? Well, from talking to the police and talking to Ms. Sanders' sisters,

and by the way, Ms. Sanders, your story is heartbreaking. It almost brings me to tears just listening to what you're saying and talking to your sisters. I replay that the hour or so that I spent with them last week. What strikes me from all of this is how it's impacted her family. So many of them were brought up to Tilly's bar as their son, nephew was right there underneath the car. Guys, take a listen to our friends now at Fox 59.

Breaking news from Indy's north side. We have confirmed with police a pedestrian was hit and killed by a car in front of a strip mall. This happened early this morning around 1230 near Tilly's Pub on East 82nd Street and Dean Road. Officers say they're looking for witnesses to try and piece together exactly what happened. And more from our friends at WISH. This is Camila Fernandez. Some people tell me this is an unusual occurrence for this part of the city. I've never been there, but I know just this area in general, especially with the new apartments, and people are always walking around, and the customers are just always so nice. It's kind of disturbing a little bit because this area is very clean and nice.

People should, you know, try to get together and get along, you know, stop this violence. Police are asking anyone with any information to come forward. Police searching for witnesses to help solve the mystery surrounding the death of this young man with us today. His mother, Ms. Sanders, and Richard Essex, along with our panel. Richard joining us from WISH. So, Richard, I'm hearing witnesses speaking to Camilla Fernandez stating what a nice area it is and how this is very unusual, which proves to me just because you're in a nice area, you are not insulated from crime. Tell me about the area where this restaurant is.

It's on the north side of Indianapolis. It's an area of town that has some of the better shops. There's some of the cleaner shopping malls. It is a nice area. It has been a nice, safe area for decades. But like every other city, major city in America, Indianapolis is not insulated from the violence that has been crisscrossing the country. And this particular area has seen some spikes, as has the rest of the city. And regardless of how nice your area is, sometimes violence creeps into your back door.

And what about this restaurant, Tilly's? Is it Tilly's Pub? It's Tilly's Pub. It has been around for a long, long time. It used to be a favorite with some of the NBA players and coaches here in Indianapolis. A lot of them live up in that area. It has been known to bring in some higher profile people. There's expensive shops right out their back door. When you say expensive shops, what do you mean by that? Brooks Brothers, that type of place.

It's more of a higher end shopping center. That's pretty high end. You know, the Golden Fleece and all that. Have you ever priced out a suit there? Forget it. Okay, I get your drift. Fancy people, fancy stores, a lot of money, celebs hanging out at this bar,

NBA players hanging out at this bar. Daryl Cohen joining me right now, high-profile lawyer joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, former felony prosecutor, now defense and civil attorney. Daryl Cohen, man, I learned that pretty quickly when I joined you at the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. You have high-crime areas where people are out literally on the street selling dope. I tell you the first time I saw that in a police report, I kicked the officer out of court. I was new.

I didn't know any better. The officer wrote in his report, I was approached by a man on the corner waving a glassine bag. I'm like, do you think I might, I may have used a few curse words at that time. That was before I had the twins. You think I believe that somebody walked up to you with a glassy bag of coke?

Get out. A dead dog did the case. All right. I go out on the street, say three months later in that same area. I stop at a red light. Guess what happened? A guy waved a glassy bag of dope at me. The feeling that went over my body when I

realized the cop had been telling me the truth. Don't worry, I revived the case. Long story short, there are areas that are high crime and there are areas you go to take your family to dinner and you don't think you're going to get killed in the parking lot. Nancy, this is different. This is targeted crime. This happens. So you believe, D parking lot. Nancy, this is different. This is targeted crime. This happens. So you believe, Daryl Cohen, that this was targeted. I got to agree with you when somebody, I mean, Richard Essex, didn't the driver run over Andre three times? Yes. And if you look back through the report, you could even argue that it was a fourth attempt fourth attempt so the perp had to run over back up and run over again is that how it worked yes um from reading through the report uh she made a run at

at andre and his friend as they were coming out of tillings and somebody deflected and she was able to maneuver her car around and then hit him on the side and knocked him down and then ran over him. Run over him again? Twice. Guys, and then we have a twist in the case. Take a listen to our friends at WTHR 13. New info on the death of a man whose girlfriend was accused of running him over in a bar parking lot. Court documents reveal that Galen Morris told police she did not mean to run over Andre Smith. She actually told police she meant to hit the woman

that he was with at Tilly's Pub and Grill. Those documents also reveal that Morris initially denied putting an air tag in the car to track him. She then admitted to placing it in the back seat. She's now charged with vehicular homicide and goes on trial in September. Air tag transferred intent. I didn't mean to run over him. I meant to run over and kill her. Take a listen to our cut eight, our friends at Fox 59. The family of the man killed in this parking lot outside Tilly's Pub believes the death was the result of a fatal obsession. The prosecutor hopes the murder charge in this case, as well as a second similar murder charge filed this week, sends some important messages to everyone. Carrying food out to his car in this parking lot along 82nd Street last week, 26-year-old Andre

Smith found himself ambushed and run over three times. Police believe the driver that night was a woman who tracked Smith to Tilly's Pub. We are devastated man, heartbroken. I really don't think nothing can justify my cousin being gone. Smith's family told me that while the suspect Galen Morris believed Smith was cheating on her with another woman, Smith was not dating the suspect at the time, but they believe she had become obsessed with his personal life. This affidavit claims Morris admitted she put a tracker in the backseat of Smith's car and followed him to the pub via GPS air tags. To Andre's mother, Ms. LaPrecious Sanders, Ms. Sanders, when did you learn that his ex, his girlfriend, ex-girlfriend had confessed, had admitted she

ran down your boy in cold blood? It's not like she was a drunk driver or it was an accident. She did it on purpose. Nancy, I found out when I got on the scene because I had seen her car. And that's when I found out when the detective walked up to me and told me the victim's name. I mean, the person's name that killed my son. Did you know her? I had met her because they'd been knowing each other for quite some time. They'd been dating off and on for quite some time.

I've met her maybe three times in total. What does she, how does she seem to you? How did she present when you met her before? I really can't say because, I mean, it was just more like a high and by type of thing where were you when you met her um he had brought her to a house that i was staying in during that time and this was like in 2017 maybe so he brought her over and met you Yes, ma'am. And she seemed normal? During that time, yes. She just seemed like a regular person,

like a regular, normal lady, normal girl, whatever you want to call her. She seemed normal at that time. This reminds me so much of a case we just covered about a 30-something-year-old Ph.D. student, her name Nijinsky-Dix. She had dated a guy a couple of months, maybe weeks, and he broke up.

And this PhD student, I've got pictures of her. She looks all put together like she's in one of those Brooks Brothers ads. She drives across the country, stalks his apartment, his condo, just the way that this woman, Galen Morris, is charged with stalking Andre, and then shoots him dead because he broke up with her. Listen to our friends at Crime Online. According to Hickman's family, Dix had started stalking her former flame after the split, and that even though she was from out of state, she somehow found out where he lived in Washington, D.C. Shortly before 5.30 p.m., police responded to reports of gunfire at the apartment complex in the nation's capital.

Police entered an apartment where they found a male individual who had been shot. They found Nijinsky Dix kneeling beside the bullet-ridden body of Terry Hickman, who was pronounced dead at the scene. Police said Dix was holding a gun in her left hand, which officers ordered her to put down. She was also on speaker phone with someone who identified themselves to authorities as her mother. To stalk someone, to electronically stalk someone. In this case, after you've been broken up with, take a listen to our cut for this Felicia Lawrence, WTHR. And we're getting some answers to what may have happened before a man ended up dead in a Northside

bar parking lot. Court documents reveal his girlfriend has admitted to the crime. Those court documents also state that Galen Morris told another woman she had used an air tag to track Andre Smith to Tilly's pub because he was cheating on her. The same woman told police she saw Morris run over Smith three times before getting out of the car and coming after another woman. To Lapricia Sanders joining us, this is Andre's mother. So if these reports are in fact true, and I have no reason to doubt them, Ms. Sanders. She, Galen Morris, age 26, stalked your son like a deer, like a bunny rabbit. The way you follow one in a scope. She stalked him with an air tag.

Yes, ma'am. It was an air tag. When did you learn that? I learned that, I think it was like the next day after my son's death, the detective called me and he explained to me that a young lady had placed an air tag. I'm not going to mention what kind of air tag, but she placed the air tag under the passenger seat of the car, of his car. And they were broken up, weren't they? Hadn't he broken up with her? Yes, ma'am. He had separated from her. He was currently at my grandmother's house and, you know, living with her for a little bit, but his clothes and things were still at the

apartment that him and Galen had shared together. So this was a fresh breakup. Yes. He had moved in with his grandmother and some of his stuff still at the suspect's apartment. Joining me right now is Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, COO of Oxygen Forensics, Inc., and author of Mobile Forensic Investigations, a Guide to Evidence Collection. Wow, that's pretty impressive. Lee Reber, thank you for being with us. Explain what is an AirTag and how does that work? Sure, sure. Thanks, Nancy. So it's really not new technology. It's a bluetooth low energy device so what that simply means is uh it utilizes bluetooth uh to say notify a device so here's an example mcdonald's mcdonald's is one of the largest purchasers of these beacons, Bluetooth beacons, that if you're in McDonald's and you

suddenly get an ad that might come up onto your phone, it's simple use of this Bluetooth technology. I don't know what you're saying. I'm sorry. They did not teach me that in law school. What do you mean? I'm in a McDonald's and an ad comes up on my phone. Sure. So if you go in, we'll'll take another example a lot of grocery stores will use these bluetooth beacons so you're going down and you're thinking about buying some soup and then all of a sudden on your phone you now receive an ad for Campbell's chunky soup that you might be looking for those pop up on your phone right and so in the case of these or an air tag simply apple calls us an eye beacon and what it allows people to do using the uh find my service of apple to be able

to track these little tokens uh if they place them on an object. Okay, wait. When you say a token, you mean the air tag looks like, for instance, a suitcase tag that you would put on there with your name on it? Yeah, yeah. Think of it just as an object, a physical object that you can place. Hey, Lee Reber, hold on one second. I think Ms. Sanders wants in. Go ahead, Ms. Sanders. What Lee Reber is trying to explain,

I was told that my son, by the young lady that was with him at Tilly's, he kept telling her that someone is tracking us, but he didn't know it was a device in his car, but he knew he was being tracked by someone, but he didn't think it was the girl, the Galen girl, or, you know, he just didn't know who. So they checked him, the young lady that he was with at the silly club. They checked the car. They checked around. They didn't find anything because it looked like a quarter or something.

It was underneath his passenger seat. So he knew he was being followed, but he didn't know by who or anything like that. Okay, now wait a minute. Then Lee Reber, how would he have known he was being followed? Yeah, so the interesting thing that Apple actually added was the ability, because when they first released with the AirTags, this was a big issue, and it still is a big issue with stocking, is that these sounds, they weren't hearing, they wouldn't know really that they had a device that was, say, following them or within their vehicle. Now, Apple's actually added so that if they have an iPhone or an iDevice, then they get a notification on their device indicating, hey, you have an unknown device writing. OK, wait a minute.

So let me try to translate what you're saying into regular people talk. I think what you just said is if some if you have if you're being tracked by an air tag, then you'll hear a little or a little something, a ping or electronic sound notifying you that somewhere around you, there's an air tag. Is that what you just said? Correct. Correct. And so it is, it's because it's a, it's not paired to say your device, right? It's an unknown, it's an unknown device or air tag that was, you know, within the area that you are in. When you say it's not paired to your device that means it's not hooked up to your phone or your ipad it's in your area like my children just went on their school trip they haven't gotten to go for three years i guess because of covid so they finally

got to go to the grand canyon okay all i could envision was them falling off a ledge. So they also couldn't take their cell phones. So they couldn't communicate with us. And at the last minute, when we were saying goodbye at 4 a.m. in the parking lot of the school, a dad had extra air tags. And I said, what did you do with those? He said, I put them on the backpack and he gave me two. I put them on the twins' backpack. I couldn't communicate with them but I could see that they were moving around where they were supposed to be

out at the Grand Canyon which gave me a lot of comfort but I didn't imagine Richard Essex joining us from WISH that air tags would be used in such a nefarious way as they were by this woman, Galen Morris, age 26, to track down her ex, Andre, like a dog. She apparently told somebody in the parking lot that there was a GPS monitoring device in his car. And she knew that his car was in that parking lot. And she had been questioning people up and down in front of this shopping area.

Have you seen a guy with this description inside the bar? And she was walking up and down and she saw it. So she knew exactly where his car was. And she went up and down trying to find him. And there's no way around it, Daryl Cohen, based on what Richard Essex, WISH, is telling us, that this is premeditated. I don't think this should be vehicular homicide, which is often treated like manslaughter. Like, oh, I had a car crash. No.

She had to plant the air tag in his car. She had to plant the air tag in his car. She had to follow it around. She had to get in her car, crank up her car, put it in reverse, put it in drive, drive to the location. Then she had to look for him. Then she had to get back in her car, wait for him to come out, crank up, put it in drive, and mow him down three times. That's plenty of time. Premeditation under the law can be formed in the blink of an eye, an instant, the twinkling of a moment.

That's time to form premeditation. This is murder one, Daryl Cohen. Nancy, I don't care about the air tag. What I care about is what she did. I bet you don't. I do. No, I don't, because that's getting there. I'm talking about being there. She ran him over once. She ran him over twice.

She ran him over three times. That is instant premeditation. That is instant murder, taking away if the court rules that the air tags are not admissible. You still have her for doing a heinous crime. And when horror happens and you don't ever expect it, horror is now and then. And ma'am, I am so sorry for your loss for your son. It is beyond the pale. I'm just sick about it. I'm just sick about it. And over what? A breakup? I mean, Ms. Sanders, has this woman tried to communicate with you? Nancy, she better not try to communicate with me. Because right now, my family and I are hurting. We're hurting really, really bad.

I'm lost. I'm numb. I don't feel like I even have a soul anymore. She took my son from me. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Ms. Sanders, tell me something. What was he like as a little boy? Oh, man, full of joy. He loved to rap.

He loved to play. He was just like a normal, typical kid. He was a love child. Everybody loved Andre. That was a love child like everybody loved Andre like that was a love child he was a sweet person he wouldn't harm anybody he just loved to put on clothes he loved clothes and shoes and that was that was and he just he didn't deserve what she did to my son. So now we have to bury my child. And you know, Joe Scott, what he went through, what he went through, he did not die immediately. And to die up under a car like that, trying to lift up his head, trying to live. He did not die immediately, Joe Scott Morgan. No, he didn't.

But this is, if there is a silver lining, which there isn't much of one, when this case is prosecuted, Andre's going to speak in court, and he's going to speak through his injuries. This is, you know, you'll have, as daryl had pointed out just a moment ago he was struck multiple times and unlike a firearm when you use a car to facilitate something like that each one of these contacts leaves a specific type of evidence relative to an individual's body and so you'll have a bumper mark remember he, they described it as him having been clipped initially, which essentially knocks him to the ground by the bumper.

And we'll find on his body what's referred to as a bumper mark. It's this abraded area. And then the attorneys will be able to tell the story through the forensic pathologist and what he went through. Because I suspect that this isn't just blunt force trauma, Nancy. I suspect that this there is a compression element that is involved in this where there was an asphyxial event that occurred. Are you trying to say he couldn't breathe? Yeah. Yeah. His chest couldn't rise and fall because I can't take it.

I can't take it anymore. I have to go. I can't. I can't. Miss Sanders, I understand. Please, Jackie, let her go because this is too much for her. I mean, Dr. Angie, did you hear that the mother can't even stand to hear these facts about her son? This is a disorder that this girl had, but it is not insanity. You told me it's some type of disorder. Yes. Nancy, there's actually a name for this. It's called obsessive love disorder. And everything about this woman projects this

disorder to me. Now, I hear you're saying disorder and on the street for me, regular vernacular disorder means you're ill. This girl is not ill. She's angry. And yes, she's obsessed. But that is not a defense, Dr. Angie Arnold. No, I'm not saying it's a defense. But I'll tell you something, Nancy.

The reason I bring it up is because if other people know the signs of things like this that they can look out for in someone that is perhaps glomming on to their child and trying to make a relationship with that child, people need to be able to look out for these signs and symptoms. And I think that that's something else that we bring to this, to what you do on this okay nancy i want people besides me to know the signs and symptoms of something like this so they can look for it like what give me some signs and symptoms okay some of the symptoms can include your you have an overwhelming attraction to one person okay then you start to have obsessive thoughts about that person. You may feel the need to protect the person that you're in love with, okay? You also become very possessive of them, extreme jealousy over any kind of other interpersonal interactions that they have.

And typically, the person with this disorder actually has a very low self-esteem. Okay. You'll see them sending repeated texts and emails and phone calls. They have a constant need for reassurance. They have a hard time maintaining friendships with other people because of their obsession with this one person. So you said, we heard in this that they had been together for three years. And something that really struck me was that the mother didn't really know her very well. She had only met her like three times.

You and I both know that if someone were in one of our children's lives for three years we would know everything about that person wouldn't we yeah I was just saying I know that the twins play dates better than that exactly there is no way we would be able to say oh I've only seen that person once a year in the last three years for my loved one oh heck no okay Dr. Angie you're still going to hook up with Ms. Sanders after we get off the air, right? Yes, I am. I've got some great advice for her, okay? Guys, there is a GoFundMe for Andre A. Smith.

There is a GoFundMe. If you want to know more about that, go to CrimeOnline.com. Back to Richard Essex, WISH-TV. Where does it stand now? Please tell me. This has graduated from a vehicular homicide to murder one and i understand that indiana is a death penalty state the prosecutor has filed a murder charge felony a felony against her and we don't see this very often where the prosecutor in this county particularly acts so quickly and so

decisively um i think he will bring out all guns so to speak hey darn well better richard essex i'm going to be about three inches up his rear end because daryl cohen a lot of times you know this as well as i do prosecutors won't seek the the DP on a female because they know they probably won't get it statistically. But I mean, you track somebody down like a bunny rabbit and then wait outside, lay in wait, then run them over three times. Oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. Even if they don't get the DP, this is a case that the DP was meant for. I guess you want to fight with me about that.

No, I do not. This is definitely a death penalty case. But on the other hand, Nancy, I hope she gets it and I hope the appeals go on forever so every minute of every day that she's still alive, she is being punished. Because the death penalty, unfortunately, it is over. But until it's over, let her be punished.

No, I'm not fighting with you on this one. I'm telling you, when I heard Ms. Sanders have to leave our program because she could not take it when Joe Scott said his lungs were compressed. Uh-uh. This woman needs to go down for a lot more than vehicular homicide like this was an accident. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crumstory signing off. Goodbye.