Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Movie Maker Teen Daughter Gunned Down. WHY?

Episode Date: August 31, 2021

Kaitlyn Arquette, daughter of 'Hotel for Dog author Lois Duncan, was killed driving to a friend's home by someone chasing her. Shots from the pursuing vehicle hit Arquette twice in the head. Yet the shooter sped away. The case has been dubbed a random drive-by shooting. Now, has this mystery been solved? In July, a man confesses to University of New Mexico police that he’d committed some murders. Does this include Kaitlyn Arquette? Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kerry Arquette - Victim's Sister, Criminologist, Daughter of Lois Duncan (wrote "Who Killed My Daughter" and "one to the Wolves", kaitarquette.arquettes.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Patricia Caristo - Executive Director, Resource Center for Victims of Violent Death, Private Investigator Joline Gutierrez-Krueger - Columnist, Albuquerque Journal, Twitter: @jolinegkg Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. You may have heard of the famous book turned into a movie, Hotel for Dogs, kind of a kid's book. It's very, very famous. I'm sure a lot of you have seen the movie, but what many people don't know is that the author of Hotel for Dogs, Lois Duncan, was famous for another reason in my world, because her daughter was murdered. How does it all unfold and what does a major break in the case tell us? Let's start at the beginning. Listen to this. 18-year-old Caitlin Arquette was driving home late on a summer night when someone shot her twice in the head. The murder on a mostly deserted Albuquerque street had the markings of a random drive-by shooting.

For months, police detectives sought elusive clues in the teenager's murder. They had no weapon, no motive, and no suspect. Family members publicly accused police of inaction. That sounds like a big mess brewing. No weapon, no motive, no suspect. The family now accusing the police of doing nothing while their teen girl dies seemingly by a random act. You were just hearing Larry Barker, K-O-A-T-V. What happened to this beautiful young girl, Caitlin Arquette? Again, I'm Nancy Grayson. I want to thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories. Who is Caitlin? Take a listen to Nancy Laughlin, KRQE. She was a pretty popular girl, an 18-year-old with dreams of one day becoming a doctor.

But on a July night, those dreams died when someone murdered Caitlin Arquette. We've been working for so many, so many years just to get the answer to why our daughter died. July 16th, 1989, Caitlin had just had dinner at her friend's home. Police say she was driving east on Lomas when someone chased her, shot her, and left her for dead. I wake up every night to the sound of gunshots and to the sound of my daughter calling, Mother, Mother, help. And I'm not there. I cannot even imagine waking up every night thinking your child is calling you,

Mom, Mom, Mommy, help me, help me. And you wake up. You come to the realization your child is dead and you were not there to help. You were away. You were far away and there's nothing you could do to save your child's life. But that is the burden that this famous, famous bookseller, this author carried. Let me introduce you an all-star panel to make sense of it all and with the breaking news in the murder of caitlin arquette first of all dr bethany marshall psychoanalyst at drbethanymarshall.com star of a brand new Netflix hit, Bling Empire. Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert and founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute.

You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Patricia Caristo, executive director of the Resource Center for Victims of Violent Death and PI. Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed.com and senior lecturer at University of Florida Medical School and founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Also joining me, columnist with the Albuquerque Journal, Jolene Gutierrez-Kruger. Special guest joining me right now is Carrie Arquette. This is Caitlin's sister, the daughter of Lois, the author of Hotel for Dogs, and Lois also wrote One to the Wolves. First of all, I want you to hear our friend Dave Lopshire at KOATV.

Carrie Arquette says as she was driving to the hospital to spend the last moments of her sister's life with her, she couldn't help but fear for the people she drove by. They're all these kids, exactly Kate's age, and they're sitting in little bistros out on the sidewalk, and they're riding their bikes, and they're walking down the street with their books, and they're standing in front of their dorms, and I wanted to hang out the window and scream at them,

Go inside. Close your windows and lock your doors and go inside, because this is not a safe place to be. At this point, police have no idea who shot Caitlin Arquette, and they're hoping somebody somewhere may have seen something that might give them a lead. We would like, of course, to appeal to the public to see if they have any information at all, if anybody was going by, if they've heard anything. Any information is going to help us, because right now we don't have anything.

I can't imagine losing your child and then seemingly hitting a dead end. Joining me right now, Carrie Arquette. This is Caitlin's sister. Carrie, I was just thinking about you trying desperately to get to your sister's side before she died. What happened when you first learn that your sister had been a crime victim and describe the journey trying to get to her side? So I was living in Texas. I was the mother of two very young children. And the phone rang at about 1am. And my husband picked it up. And he heard my mother's voice and he started to hand it to me. But mother told him, no, I need to tell you something because she wanted him prepared

so he could support me once she gave me the news. And then he handed me the phone and she said, Kate's been shot. And all I could think was that she had been an, uh, that a kid that she'd been babysitting might have gotten into his parents' guns and accidentally shot her because she was the babysitter for the whole neighborhood. And then when I found out that that wasn't the case, I could barely breathe and got to Kate's side. And she, of course, was in a coma. And I sat there. I remember Mother saying, touch her.

I thought that was a very odd thing to say. But Mother was very wise, and she knew that somehow I needed to make that human connection that this still was my little sister because she didn't look at all like Kate. And I remember playing her lullabies that my mother had written and my sister had sung and produced. And I remember telling her, I was just gabbing and telling her that I had taken her little nieces to see Peter Pan. And I remember saying something about flying and how wonderful and magical that must be. And that if she felt it was time for her to fly, it was going to be an adventure and that she should go. Why do you say that she looked nothing like Caitlin? I am a criminologist. So you would think that I would have an idea of what happens to a person when they're shot in the head.

At least shot in the head with the kind of bullets that that um killed kate and a head can swell somehow i thought that a that a skull was like a rock and that it was just solid but her head had swollen um enormously and it was bandaged, and all you could see were her eyes, and they, of course, were black and blue. And she, Kate was always so full of energy. She was always doing something, and to see her prone in the hospital bed, completely, completely still, and not just still, like

drained of her life force. That and the bandaging made her look nothing like my little sister. Guys, you are hearing the voice of Carrie Arquette. This is Caitlin Arquette's sister who made the mad race to the hospital to try and see her sister before she died. I want to go straight out to Jalene Gutierrez Kruger with the Albuquerque Journal. Jalene, thank you so much for being with us. Describe what you know about the facts surrounding the shooting of Caitlin Arquette. Uh, Caitlin was shot in the skull twice in the head. There's a big, large bullet wound in her, um, car as well, which, which made people

wonder if perhaps, um, there were more than one gun used. Now her car, a red Ford Tempo,po, had veered across oncoming traffic. Luckily, there wasn't any. And she ended up, or the car ended up smashed into a pole on the sidewalk on a street called Lomas, which is a fairly busy street normally. And now after that, there was a police officer who was off duty. Nevertheless, I think police officers are never always off duty. He drives by and he sees this. He thinks it's just a car with, and there's another car next to it, a Volkswagen Bug. And he thinks, oh, they're just looking at cars. Now, how did that make sense when there are two cars on the sidewalk and one is smashed into a pole?

But that's the initial thought. He doesn't see Caitlin because she slumped over in her car on the front seat. He comes back around and calls it in as an accident without injuries. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Once again, how does one make that determination? I guess they didn't even get close enough to the vehicle to realize she was inside. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cheryl McCollum, you've been working this case for so long. You know ins and outs of the case like many others don't. You and Jolene and Carrie. What's your understanding of what happened the night that this young girl, gorgeous young girl,

brilliant young girl, just shot dead in traffic. It's like a random shooting. Nancy, it's unbelievable that this would be a drive-by shooting with that accuracy. Why do you say it like that? Why do you say drive-by shooting?

Because you make it sound like, oh, I'm just going to drive through McDonald's and grab a shake as if their shake machines ever work. But I'm just going to drive through, just a drive-by, a highway. This is seemingly a random murder. And here she is minding her own business. And seemingly some freak does a thrill kill just shoot her for no reason exactly but when you look at it closer and you realize kate was traveling approximately 40 miles an hour did you say 40 or 30 40 okay struck in her left temple she's also been struck in her left temple. She's also been struck in her left cheek, maybe an inch apart. Nancy, that is unbelievable shooting for a target that is moving, especially if the shooter is in another

vehicle also moving. You and I know people at the police academy standing still with a target that ain't moving that couldn't do that this is unbelievable what they have so far so you've got two shots to the left temple she's driving her car i mean in my mind patricia caristo uh director resource center or victims of violent death mpi in my mind how could you get off i mean even a sharpshooter could a sharpshooter, maybe with an automatic weapon, get off two shots that quickly while Caitlin's car is moving? One to the left temple and one also on the left side of the head. You're exactly right. And after she was shot twice in the head, her car traveled 750 feet, and the car ends up against a pole.

We tried to reconstruct that several ways and several times, and it just seems unlikely how this happened. There's contemplation that there was another shot fired when her vehicle was stopped at the pole. And we don't have enough facts to have a known point to compare all the data with. I'm trying to take in everything you're saying. Are you saying we don't have enough facts to determine the known point from which the shooter fired? Gotcha. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Was the window up or down, Cheryl McCollum? Her window had been shattered, so it was up. Window up. To you, Dr. Tim Gallagher, the likelihood of surviving a shot to the head through the left temple, very low. And as evidenced by the fact that her car kept going and slammed into a pole, I think that she was essentially gone. How could she survive two shots to the head, one through the left temple, and still be alive at the hospital, Dr. Gallagher? Very good question. Shots to the head, especially to the sides of the head, are 99.5% fatal. They would also depend on the caliber of the bullet.

A.22 caliber bullet is very small, and you have a higher chance of surviving that. So two shots to the head, survival. She could have possibly been declared brain dead at that point what is that what is brain dead technically speaking what does that mean well brain dead is a terminology meaning that the brain is not receiving enough blood flow to function uh to function the organs of the body, to function the arms and legs, and to appear to give life to the body. So the brain is not capable of performing its function. And so the body can't take any commands.

So while your heart is still pumping, your brain is not telling your body to do anything. So you just lie there. Absolutely. Your heart does not need your brain to tell it to beat. It'll beat on its own. So the body appears to be alive. There is you can breathe via the life support system, the respirator. You can get your nutrition through a feeding tube.

You can be there for quite a while, but you will have no conscious ability. You will have no quality of life. How do you know somebody's brain dead? Through a CAT scan or an MRI? Right. There are tests that you can do, blood flow tests. You would inject chemicals into the body that would show what the blood flow is to the brain. And then you would also do tests to the body.

You would do deep pain tests. For instance, you would put a sharp object to the bottom of their foot and see if they react to that. And if there's no reaction, then based on all of the evidence you've collected medically, you can then declare that person. People ask me all the time, how do you do what you do? Doesn't it bother you? How. You know what, Gallagher? You can then declare that person. People ask me all the time, how do you do what you do? Doesn't it bother you? How do you do what you do? Talking about shooting chemicals into somebody's body and stabbing them in the foot.

Well, like Muddy Waters used to say, I love what I do and I do what I love. Well, I did not expect a Muddy Waters quote this morning, but I'm glad you said that I'm totally stealing it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, none of it makes any sense. And that is when police get stymied.

They can't seem to figure anything out. The case seemingly goes cold. And then, is there a break in the case? Take a listen to Larry Barker, KOAT-TV. Six months after the murder, a major break in the case. Take a listen to Larry Barker, KOAT-TV. Six months after the murder, a major break in the case. An informant names two suspects. Other witnesses also come forward. Police finally get murder indictments in the case, but that case crumbled when those witnesses later changed their stories. Witnesses, whether out of fear, whether out of some other motivation, just told us that what they had

originally told us did not happen. The two suspects are released. The Arquette family now accuses all claims leads were not followed, including one alleging the involvement of a Vietnamese gang. That was extensively looked into. We were aware of that soon after the homicide occurred. We could find no tie to the homicide in any Vietnamese gang. Carrie Arquette, I just, oh, hearing that they think they've got the killer and then it turns out to all be a lie. Why would anybody even do that, Carrie? Do you remember when you guys, you, your family, your mom thought it's solved? And then one by one, each defendant was let go. It was like being on an emotional roller coaster. Well, this whole thing has been like being on an emotional roller coaster. You get your hopes up and then they're dashed and then you get your hopes up and they're dashed again. It's just truly exhausting. Carrie, I got to just tell you,

you know, you and I have met in person and discussed this and just hearing you talk right now, it's just giving me chills all over my arms and legs because just thinking about what a horrible loss to lose for Lois to lose her teen daughter, for you to lose your sister, the pain you're thrown into. And then to think the case is solved and there's actually a grand jury indictment, which scares me legally. And then one by one, each suspect is let go and cut loose. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I think I need to shrink right now. Why in the world would tipsters or CIs, confidential informants, come forward and name the wrong people and go so far as they get a grand jury indictment relying on these witnesses nancy this is there's so many wrong aspects to this story i mean all i can think of is that these tipsters knew that this was a building story and they got

excited they wanted to be a part of it they wanted to be a part of it. They wanted to be a part of the drama. So they gave leads or they simply wanted to be a part of it. So they implicate a Vietnamese gang? Like you want to get them on your tail? How dramatic. It's like the ad for Cosmopolitan Hotel, just the right amount of wrong. You know, just like they're trying to. I don't know what you're saying.

What? Okay, there's an ad for the Cosmitan hotel in las vegas and oh okay it's a you're starving not mine you do know it's named sin city for a reason but you know what wait wait wait your your theory you're advancing is that they wanted to be in on a big story. And I've seen that. I've seen that happen. But Cheryl McCollum. If I can add to that about the family really quickly. In the face of ambiguity or not knowing what happened, we read our worst possible fears.

We human beings need predictability in order to feel safe. So already Lois's daughter, a beloved sister, has been shot in the side of the head. We don't even know who the killer is. Is this like the DC sniper, like Lee Malvo,

or one of these types of killers? So there's all these theories floating around and it's so unpredictable. And then having all of these false tipsters come in raises the level of unpredictability and of anxiety and dis-ease and uncertainty. So the drama is not just building for the tipsterssters but the family is just probably their minds are going wild at this point and they just need the truth to settle them down and to bring some order back into their life through uh cheryl mccollum thinking you've solved the case and finding out all this time you had the wrong the the wrong perp but there's no way that this young girl caitlin

has anything to do with the vietnamese gang like how did it go so wrong cheryl her boyfriend who was vietnamese was caught up in some insurance scams what do you mean insurance scam well they would rent cars and then they would have friends drive another car, and from the rental car that they would insure to the hilt, they would run into the other folks in a fake accident, and then everybody would go to the hospital, claim soft tissue injuries, and get paid from the insurance company. You have no idea how common this is.

When I was in the DA's office as a felony prosecutor, I had a fender bender. Somebody ran into me from behind, of course, on my way to a crime scene. And I was fit to be tied because I was trying to get to that crime scene. That night, Cheryl, I get home from work at like 10 o'clock. The phone rings. Nobody has my number. I pick up a load. It's a runner. In other words, somebody has an in at the police headquarters. Oh, yeah. They get the police report.

They see I'm the victim. Perfectly fine. And my phone number and call me trying to refer me to a lawyer so I can go get my soft tissue tested. Well, you can only imagine what I had to say to that. My point is, it's not a violent crime, but it's a scam. And so that is how they connect her through some Vietnamese gang because her boyfriend is in an insurance scam? Correct. But there's a connection with California and some other people. So it got very convoluted. So they were concerned.

Now you know better than to throw out a connection to California and some other people. What? What other people? Well, this became a spider web. I mean, there were there was a like a law person that was involved. He wasn't an attorney. He was some kind of paralegal. He would sign off on all this paperwork, and they were helping. It's all part of the same scam, though. Oh, absolutely. Were they afraid that she was going to reveal the scam? That was a theory.

Okay, you know what? When there's a complicated theory that you have to bend into contortions to make it work very often. That's not it. That sounds more like a murder mystery novel. So it's also scary how it can go to indictment and go through a grand jury and these people get indicted, but it was based on a false witness pan out and the family sinks in despair. Take a listen to our cut 19 KOAT TV. Her family asking anyone who knows anything to please come forward.

One small detail could go a long way. If this was your sister, if this was your child, wouldn't you want somebody with a soul to have the courage to stand up and do the right thing? The entire family no longer lives in New Mexico. Kate's mother died three years ago, hoping to get the justice they deserve before she passed. Her father is now hoping for the same. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To you, Carrie Arquette, this is Caitlin's sister, now a criminologist. And for those of you that don't know the name Lois Duncan, she is the world famous author of Hotel for Dogs, which turned into a major movie. But with all the fame and success, she passed on from this life, never getting a resolution in her teen girl's death

to Carrie Arquette. How did that affect your mom? Not having a resolution. Well, mother was this plucky little tiny thing. And she was always just a writer, a dreamy woman who spun her stories. And then Kate was murdered and mother turned into a mama bear. And she was having to go against the grain of her nature, going into the police department and meeting with attorneys and doing interviews. And it just, I think it broke her. She, the stress of it finally took her down. And you know what, Nancy, she said, mother always said, I will not die before I find justice for Kate.

But they say what people make plans and God laughs. So Mother died in 2016. But you know what? I think that she's still around. I have people telling me right now that they've had very odd things happen recently that made them think that mother is still very much a part of this story. There is a major break in the case. Listen. 53-year-old Paul Apodaca showed up to the UNM police station last month claiming he had found God and wanted to confess to crimes he says he committed decades ago. the case. The case is still in the works. The case is still in the works. The 18 year-old Paul

Appadaca showed up to the U.N. police station last month claiming he had found God and wanted to confess to crimes. He says he committed decades ago. The Arquette case is one of the most infamous cold

cases in Albuquerque history because of her mother's high profile books about the murder in 1989, 18 year-old Caitlin Arquette was a recent Highland High grad set to go to UNM. Her life cut short after she was shot in the head in her car on Lomas near Broadway. Her mother, author Lois Duncan, wrote two books on her daughter's murder, was featured on Unsolved Mysteries, and blogged about every detail she learned, including that 53-year-old Paul Apodaca was at the scene of her daughter's

murder. However, Apodaca was never even questioned by police. Straight out to Jolene Gutierrez-Kruger with the Albuquerque Journal. Did I just hear correctly? That was our friend Courtney Allen at KRQE speaking. He was at the scene but never questioned? Paul Apodaca was at the scene. He was seen by not only the first detective that arrived, but the second one. By the time that the ambulance workers got there, neither the police officers nor Paul Apodaca were there. There was no indication that they ever interviewed him at all. If they had, they would have found a plethora of criminal activity that might have given them at least a little bit of a questioning as to could he have been the guy?

Sherlock Holmes, I don't understand it. The guy's at the scene. How is it that cops appear, they don't question him, and then they leave? They leave the scene unattended and they don't see Caitlin dead in the car seat. There's no answers for any of that. At any scene, he should have been taken down to headquarters and interviewed. Exactly what did he see? When did he see it?

Where was he standing? What did he hear? That wasn't done. They took his name and he gave a fake phone number. That was it. He was also able to move a car. There was a VW scene at the scene. And when the second detective arrived, that car was no longer there.

You know, why is it that people seem to always find God behind bars? He's outside of bars, too. Is it a ploy, Cheryl? I think it's a ploy. Sometimes I think it's a stunt. Sometimes if you have a religious affiliation, you get better food. You get to leave and go to chapel and you get to do other things. You get to have more visitation. came in the it was further notice continued week he came in the next i guess it was tuesday morning for another pleading arraignment and he had in the meantime woven a giant cross out of yarn i mean this big and was wearing it around his neck i'm like

okay but let me be clear sometimes it's true this guy walked in to okay i agree sometimes it's true this guy walked in to a police department. Okay, I agree sometimes it's true. I'm happy it's true. But then the next eight guys came in with giant yarn crosses on too. That's quite the coincidence. The Lord has been busy again. Okay, let's talk about this guy that finds God and comes in

and makes a confession. Is it real? Take a listen to our friends at KRQE. Apodaca told police he had developed a hatred for women because they always go for the bad guys. And he was a nice guy, but they didn't want that. One thing we have known is he had a dislike and there was a dislike for women. And that will be coming up as one of the motivating factors. And can you really truly know exactly why somebody does something so horrible?

A dislike for women? To you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, he sounds like one of the original incels, involuntary celibates that hate women. That's absolutely right. Not only do they hate women, but they want to haveates that hate women. That's absolutely right. Not only do they hate women, but they want to have power over them. They want to dominate them and then potentially kill them. I mean, they cannot stand to see women being beautiful out in the world, living their life young, about to go to college. They just want to snuff the life out of them, Nancy. To Carrie Arquette joining us, this is Caitlin's

sister. When you heard about his confession and the fact that he had been on the scene and was never questioned, what went through your mind? Tell me what happened. I thought, this is insanity. But really, it made me furious. It made me absolutely, utterly furious. And so I really struggled with the idea that he had finally come forward. I had prayed for that for a very long time. But the fact that he had waited this long and he had gone on to hurt other people. And if the cops had done their job

at the time that Kate was murdered and gotten him off the street, the lives of other women would not have been so profoundly and negatively affected. Carrie Arquette, truer words were never spoken. Listen to our friends at KRQE. Police say Apodaca was arrested last month for violating his probation. They say he told them that he was responsible for several murders and rap The family was charged with the murder of a child during his probation. They say

he told them that he was responsible for several murders and rapes in the 80's and 90's including Oakley's murder. He told police he was working as a security aid at TV. I which is now CNN and saw her walking away from a

fraternity party. He said he was planning to rape her but stabbed her instead Oakley stumbled to a neighbor's house and told them she had been stabbed. She was taken to the hospital where she died. APD says Apodaca also confessed to killing 18-year-old Caitlin Arquette a year later as she was driving on low-miss. The murder became high-profile because Arquette was the daughter of author Lois Duncan. Just think about this. Paul Apodaca, the first person at the crime scene driving a VW Bug, the same kind of car witnesses saw fleeing after the shooting, never questioned. 32 years later, he confesses. To Carrie Arquette, what is your family's response?

It's a very good question. Because you're addressing it to the family. And one of the things that happened after Kate's murder was that the family, it dissolved in many ways. Paul Apodaca murdered my sister, but he also killed my family. Everybody kind of disbanded, moved to different areas and dealt with their grief in very, very different ways. And we tried once or twice to do Christmas the way we had always done it. It was a big holiday for the family. But it felt like we were all acting roles because Kate's place in front of the Christmas tree was empty. So when you talk about how is the family feeling, each person is such an individual that I think that they would have to answer that themselves.

I think that we're almost too afraid to invest in a belief that this could be the conclusion of this horrible saga. That much I could say about the family. I pray this case will finally end for Caitlin's family. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.