Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Movie Star Alec Baldwin CHARGED WITH HOMICIDE

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Actor Alec Baldwin has been charged with involuntary manslaughter by New Mexico prosecutors related to the death of in connection with cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. The shooting on set during the production of the film, "Rust." Baldwin was allegedly four feet from the crew on set in a mock church pew when he used his right hand to reach across his body to grab the gun holstered on his left side. He was reportedly aiming the gun toward cinematographer Halyna Hutchins when he drew back the hammer and released it. The bullet first went through director Joel Souza’s shoulder before striking Hutchins in the chest, killing her. Armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed is also charged. Reed is facing criminal charges for allegedly loading the gun before handing it off to an assistant director, who then gave the gun to Baldwin before rehearsal. Reports indicate crew members used the gun on the day of the shooting for target practice — and had used live rounds to shoot at beer cans to pass time on set. Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick- California prosecutor, author “Red Flags;" Holst of "Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego; Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Gianni Pirelli- Board Certified Forensic Psychologist – Owner of Pirelli Clinical and Forensic Psychology, LLC, Author: "Firearms and Clinical Practice: A Handbook for Medical and Mental Health Professionals" Paul Szych - Former Police Commander (Albuquerque, NM), APD Domestic Violence and Stalking Unit, Author: "Stop Him From KillingThem" on Amazon Kindle, StopHimFromKillingThem.com, Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat  Johonniuss Chemweno- Film and TV Safety Expert; CEO, and VIP of StarNetwork; Twitter: @johonniuss_j  Dr. Jan Gorniak- Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist  Alexis Terezchuck- CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Finally, will there be a resolution in the case, the mystery swirling around Hollywood star Alec Baldwin? Interesting. This is always called the Alec Baldwin homicide case. Why? Because he's the movie star? No one ever seems to call it the Helena Hutchins case. The beautiful, young, married mom that's dead, leaving her son behind to be raised without a mother. Why is it always the Alec Baldwin case? And then, of course, I call this a two-for-one. Now, when Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger, and even though he got on national TV and said he

did not pull the trigger, of course he pulled the the trigger he needs to stop saying that and come up with something different like I pulled a trigger but I thought it was a fake bullet now that I would believe but to try to tell me I didn't pull the trigger that's gonna paint him a liar in front of the jury but what I'm trying to say is there was another person that was shot. Remember the director, Joel Souza? There's no charge at all for his shooting. Well, with me to make sense of it all is an all-star panel. But first, just to, as we say in court, refresh our recollections, take a listen to this 911 call. Can you get to 911?

What's the location of your emergency? We need an ambulance out at Bonanza Creek Ranch right now. We've got two people shot on a movie set accidentally. You said someone was shot? Two people accidentally with gunshots at our movie set, Bonanza Creek Ranch. Okay, give me one second. I'll connect you with medical dispatch.

I don't need it. Who are you calling? Clear the road. San Jose Fire and EMS, this is a location of emergency. Bonanza Creek Ranch has had two people accidentally shot on a movie set by a prop gun. We need help immediately. Okay. Bonanza Creek Ranch.

Come on. Stay on the phone with me. We're going to get some help, okay? Okay. What is your name? Nanny Mitchell. Ms. Mitchell, what's the phone number you're calling from? 50.

Don't hang up, okay? Hold on just one second. Fucking Christ. It sounds like somebody else is calling for two ambulances. You better make sure everybody should be bringing some help. Our director and our cameraman, The camera woman has been shot. And during these minutes on 9-1-1, Helena Hutchins' life just slipped away. All this on the scene of movie Rust.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. As I mentioned earlier, Hollywood star Alec Baldwin will not be charged for shooting Rust director Joel Sousa despite firing the gun because they're in that jurisdiction. It's no such thing as an unintentional battery. Now, before we get started, when you think of homicide, most people think of murder. There's several different types of homicide. There's murder, felony murder, which is when simply a death occurs during the commission of a felony. You

don't even have to mean to do it. Like I'm robbing a bank and I say, Jackie, don't pull out your gun. And trigger happy Jack, Jackie, of course, does pull out her gun when I'm not looking and shoots a bank teller. Well, guess what? I'm charged with felony murder because a death occurred while I was committing a felony, a bank robbery. Textbook felony murder. Then you got malice murder. That is intentional murder with premeditation. Premeditation can be in the blink of an eye. The time it takes me to pull out a gun and pull the trigger. That's premeditation.

It doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out plan like that. I try to poison Jackie over there by putting a little arsenic in her horrible coffee every morning. And then suddenly she kills over and dies. Of course, that's premeditated murder. So now I've implicated you in a murder and killed you in the last five minutes. Then you've got voluntary manslaughter. That's often called heat of passion. When you're so angry, you pull a gun and a jury kind of lets you off with a lesser charge. That usually gives you a sentence of 20. Then we're down to Alec Baldwin's charge, unintentional murder, unintentional homicide, involuntary manslaughter. That's what we're looking at. However, again, this is quite

the freebie. Baldwin will not be charged for shooting the director, Joel Susan. Again, as I said, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I'm going to go straight out to Alexis Tereschuk joining me out of Hollywood, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What are the charges against Baldwin? So the first charge against him is called involuntary manslaughter. And for this to be proved, there must be underlying negligence. So what this means is under New Mexico's law, it's a fourth degree felony. It's punishable by up to 18 months in jail and a $5,000 fine.

But what this means is there has to be for for some reason, that they didn't do something right. Now, Alec was a producer on this movie, so he was in charge of hiring all the people. So if he hired somebody who didn't do their job, that's his fault. That could be the underlying negligence there. Okay, I'm sorry. It sounds like you're completely claiming Baldwin has nothing to do with it because he didn't hire everyone. Isn't he a producer on this? Isn't he responsible for hiring? Yes, because he did hire everyone he is responsible for. Well, how about the fact that he pulled the trigger? I'm sorry, I'm just kind of hung up on that.

I've got a dead body, a little boy raised without a mother, and he pulled the trigger. He says he didn't pull the trigger. Okay, you know, Alexis, maybe, maybe little green men from Mars came down and went invisible. Maybe they pulled the trigger. Maybe, but not probable. You know, but I've got this, Wendy Patrick. Hold on. With me is Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flag. She's at WendyPatrickPhD.com.

And she's a star of Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, you know, I very rarely will argue for the defense. But when you go into a trial, I think you'll agree with me on this. And you're prosecuting a case. You have to anticipate what the other side is going to do. And we all know that accident is a complete defense, just like self-defense. It's a complete defense. Of course, self-defense is not an issue here, but accident is a complete defense. And if Alec Baldwin can persuade this jury, yes, I pulled the trigger, but I thought it was full of fake bullets.

It was supposed to be a prop gun with prop pretend bullets. This was an accident. If he can do that, he will win, Wendy Patrick. Yeah, you know, it's an interesting argument, Nancy, because he's charged with those two involuntary manslaughter counts and the alternative. Count one, of course, requiring negligence count to requiring recklessness. But you and I have been in trial. Those terms are ambiguous to jurors who may be so convinced that both charges wanted to

were accidents, even though they'll have the jury instructions talking about standard of care, how everybody should have a duty to inspect the gun, whether or not he's acting as a producer or as the actor who pulled the trigger that fired the shot that killed Helena. Those are the kinds of questions that are tricky for juries to answer when you do have this accident defense. So I agree, regardless of them having all the technicalities of the law, it still may be a tough case in that respect. Joining me is Paul Zeit, former police commander out of New Mexico. Author stopped him from killing them on Amazon Kindle. Paul Zeit, it's great to have you.

What do you make of the defense that Baldwin will surely raise that this was an accident or is he going to try and claim he didn't pull the trigger, which is crazy? Hello, Nancy. Well, he's attempted to say that he didn't pull the trigger on multiple occasions during multiple interviews. The reality is guns don't fire themselves, and in this case, a single action firearm. The hammer has to be pulled back, and then you have to have some sort of pressure or pull the trigger and drop the hammer release it to fire the cartridge so i think that's a tough road for for him to climb you know what if he tries to tell this jury i didn't pull the trigger

they're gonna hold that against him if he says yes okay i pulled the trigger but i thought it was a prop gun why but he may be precluded from saying that now because he has blabbed. Alec Baldwin could not keep his yap shut. He blabbed on multiple outlets. Let's take a listen to our cut 25A. This is him on the Cuomo project. Every single person on the set of the film knows what happened. And the people that are talking loudest about what happened or speculating about what happened were not on the set of the film knows what happened. And the people that are talking loudest about what happened or speculating about what happened were not on

the set of the film. The LA Times, The Hollywood Reporter, they talk on and on and on about what if this and what if that and have dined out on this. And the thing that they have in common is nobody was there. And everybody who was there, they know exactly what happened. They know exactly who's to blame, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and I think they will exactly be the state's witnesses. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Every single person on the set of the film knows what happened. And the people that are talking loudest about what happened or speculating about what happened were not on the set of the film.

The L.A. Times, The Hollywood Reporter, they talk on and on and on about what if this and what if that and have dined out on this and uh uh the thing that they have in common is nobody was there and everybody who was there they know exactly what happened they know exactly who's to blame blah blah blah what does that mean every and hollywood reporter at la times have quote dined out on this to elisa's thchuk, what does that mean? I think what Alec is saying is the two most respected publications in Los Angeles are making money off of him by saying they dined out and that they just make money blaming him because

he's the big star, because Alec is absolutely insistent that he is not to blame in this situation. However, the thing is, the Hollywood Reporter and the LA Times spoke to people who were on set. They're on the record. They've spoken to the FBI. They've spoken to the investigators in New Mexico.

So I don't think that they are just making things up because the reporter specifically wasn't on set when it happened. You know what? It sounds like a lot of finger pointing to me, Jack and Sid. Sounds like, oh, the Hollywood Reporter, they're so evil. The LA Times, they're so evil. Blah, blah, blah. They're making money off of me. He needs to focus on Helena Hutchins. She's dead. And he pulled the trigger. Now, with me, guys, is an expert. His name is Johannes Kimueno. He is a film and safety expert for TV sets and film projects, CEO and VIP of Star Network at VIPstarnetwork.com.

He knows his way around a prop gun. So, Johannes Kimueno, I want you to take a listen to Hour Cut 24. This is coming from Tina Patel, KCAL. Now, why did he say that? If he didn't know, if he hadn't checked. The point is, all of us were told that everything was cool and you can relax and we're working with a gun that's safe to rehearse with. But he explained it to me effectively, that that's exactly what can happen if you pull a hammer back and let it go. If there's a live round.

See, there's only one question to ask here. Who put a live round in the gun? That's it. There is no other question to ask. Oh, wow. When he says it in the main voice, I guess that means it's real. Well, apparently the local district attorney doesn't agree with me. Johannes Kimueno. Johannes, thank you for being with me. Johannes Kimueno.

Johannes, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much. Sure. What do you believe happened? Well, I think there was a, from even hearing that script just now that, that take most importantly, where's the checks and balance?

Where's the oversight? He mentions there that, you know, the firearm was checked and he believed that there was a dummy round in the iron. But clearly, from all the reports in the last year and a half of going back and forth and seeing what Alex Baldwin said on many different statements that he made, both in live TV, but also in interviews and statements that he made to the local police, it seems as if there was little to no oversight on that set altogether. And him as a producer was fully responsible for that oversight. Okay.

You're saying that as a producer on, for instance, he's not just the actor. He was an executive producer to my understanding. Right, Johannes? That's right. So it's not just that he pulled the trigger it's also that he was kind of in charge of the whole thing as the executive producer 100 when we look at producers that are going to go to any state in the makeup film they have to be responsible for the entire production and so looking at it from both ale Baldwin being a producer, also being responsible for hiring the health and safety supervisors, the entire department from A to B to C, all the way around.

There was clearly a lack of understanding of what needed to happen to create a safe working condition. Take a listen to the district attorney. He was the actor that pulled the trigger. So certainly he's charged as an actor. But also as a producer, he also had a duty to make sure that the set was safe. And we know from our investigation that there had been accidental misfires prior to this, that there were people that were complaining about safety on set. And so he should have been aware that safety was an issue on set.

And then as an actor that day, he should have checked that gun, checked those projectiles. You know, though, to Dr. Gianni Pirelli joining us, board certified forensic psychologist, owner, Pirelli Clinical Forensic Psychology and author of Firearms and Clinical Practice, a handbook for medical mental health professionals. You can find him at Gparelli.com. Dr. Pirelli, thank you for being with us. I'm still saying the jury's going to be in a rock and a hard spot, and I'll tell you why. He is saying, I thought there was a blank. I didn't realize there was a live round in there. And I think the jury can believe that.

Now, if he tries to lie and say, I didn't pull the trigger, he's going to lose all credibility. But I think they're torn between a dead mom with a little boy and husband left behind and Alec Baldwin trying to lie his way out of it. If it's an accident, that's a complete and total defense. There's another layer that, you know, of course, as a forensic psychologist, you know, occurs to me because my involvement in a lot of these types of matters, not that unintentional firearm deaths are very rare, about 1% of all gun deaths. But, you know, what occurs to me is he's also very shocked and emotionally distraught. Okay. And that's another

layer that the jury is going to see as well, right? Because whether it's, we don't, no one's really suggesting it's intentional, but I should say that even an intentional shooting, you know, can traumatize someone, frankly, in certain circumstances, but certainly unintentional one can. And when you see him looking terrible, frankly, you know, in the interviews over the last year and a half with the, he did a George Stephanopoulos interview in December of 21. And as to your point of his talking a lot, he said, I really can't wait,

you know, and he was crying multiple times. And then you see many Instagram posts about all kinds of things over this time. You know, he's just, you know, kind of always out there, I guess, as a celebrity, that's his go-to, but he's also someone, this is very interesting. He's also someone who has openly spoke about, this is before the shooting, in the past, about having severe OCD, okay, and having a troubled childhood. And so he's probably someone who's obsessive and has intrusive thoughts at some level, in addition to some other issues. And so now you have somebody who has very likely been traumatized at some level, okay? Now he also has to to defend himself and obviously i'm not going to take a position on uh you you are the legal professionals here not me but in terms of the

mental health component remember that a jury is also going to potentially see a very sympathetic figure in him and and you have um the complaints and counter complaints in the civil side of things and then his wife's instagram posts, you know, you hear these words, agony, torture, and all these kind of words that are reflecting how he looks, frankly, you know, he does look that way. Now he's an actor. So maybe that will be in their minds as well. I don't know. But it's a little bit hard to fake. I mean, two things can be true at the same time. He could be guilty. That's a legal kind of concept, of course, but he could also be traumatized. And so that's something we have to pay attention to as well when we talk about the presentation in

front of the jurors. You know, this is Wendy. Let me just say, those are great points. The issue is going to be how much of that is going to be admissible in the criminal case. All of that's going to go to sentencing if there's a conviction because there's factors in mitigation. But in terms of his background and what he was feeling and what he may have been doing in the past and past trauma, that probably won't be admissible in terms of was he negligent, was he reckless? Because the standard of care on the set, that's probably going to come down to a battle of experts. But it'll probably also include what did he know, what should he have known, and how should he have handled that gun. He had a duty to ensure the revolver was safe to handle. Those are the words from the DA. So it's an interesting mix of the

jury may not know a lot of what they otherwise might look at in determining whether or not it's an accident, so there'd be no criminal culpability. But don't you agree, Wendy, if the jury believes it's an accident, that is a complete defense? They would find it as a complete defense, whether or not they also found he may have been reckless or negligent, whether or not that's like a nullification issue. They would have to believe that he didn't fall below the standard of care and that he didn't have that type of a duty. It's going to be really tricky, Nancy, and that's one of the reasons we rarely see these types of prosecutions. Well, you're right. Another thing, I believe it was Dr. Gianni Pirelli who mentioned his wife, Hilaria, and her many, many posts.

Yes. The constant discussion of how devastated they are. I don't know. With Helena Hutchins' family grieving and mourning, their so-called agony pales in comparison to what Helena Hutchins' family is going through. As a matter of fact, speaking of Helena Hutchins, which in my mind, that's what the case is all about, to Dr. Jan Gorniak, renowned medical examiner, joining us out of Clark County.

Dr. Gorniak, it's a real honor to have you on with us. Thank you for joining us. What did Helena Hutchins suffer at the time of her shooting death? She suffered from, obviously, a gunshot wound of the chest. And I'm going to go back a little bit because I'm hearing about it being an accident. And so I'm a purist as it comes to manner of death. So the manner of death comes about, you know, the circumstances that led up to someone's death. And in this case, it's between an accident and a homicide. And so listening to the past dialogue before I got on about if, you know,

Alec Baldwin can say that this is an accident, the jury believes it's an accident, the medical examiner in this case ruled the death, meaning manner of death, as an accident. The medical examiner in this case ruled the death, meaning manner of death, as an accident. But that's an opinion. And like I said, being a purist, I would have ruled this case a homicide because our definition is death at the hands of another. We don't get into intent. We don't get into whether it was a prop gun, whether they knew there was a dummy bullet in it or whatever. So that might also play a role in how the jury sees it because the medical examiner ruled it an accident also. Well, Dr. Gorniak, you're absolutely correct. Take a listen to the district attorney.

Just because it's an accident doesn't mean that it's not criminal. Our involuntary manslaughter statute covers unintentional killings, unintentional homicides. The rest of our homicide statutes cover intentional, but unintentional means they didn't mean to do it. They didn't have the intent to kill, but it happened anyway. And it happened because of more than mere negligence, because they didn't exercise due caution or circumspection. And that's what happened here. If I could maneuver it this way, I would always bring on the medical examiner, either first, if I had laid a legal foundation for the medical examiner to testify. Or last, to work up to a big finale or to start with a bang. Because you just pointed out something I don't believe I've heard any other

expert analyze, and that is the medical examiner in Helena Hutchins' case ruled it an accident. And I was very surprised about that because the M.E. is not to make a legal decision, but a medical decision. And as you said, Dr. Gorniat, you are a purist. And whenever someone dies at the hand of the other, that's a homicide. So I was also very surprised when I first read it. But the reason I'm telling you about how I would put the medical examiner to either begin or end the case,

because I always found their testimony so powerful and knowledgeable. Plus, jurors love doctors. You must know that, Dr. Gornian. When this medical examiner states that it was an accident that's going to have a profound effect on the jury dr gornian um that is absolutely correct because obviously when we do autopsies and our job is to determine cause and manner of death we just don't receive a body, right? We have to know all the circumstances, including toxicology, you know,

what were the circumstances, you know, the gun, this and this. And sometimes we might even say if the gun, quote unquote, accidentally discharged, we would have the firearm interrogated to see is that possible, right? Was the weapon malfunctioning and based on the information that i know right the you know the trigger had to be pulled whether

someone remembers pulling it or not whether they did or did not um that's we can't prove or disprove their their thoughts but we can prove or disprove whether the firearm was, you know, was functioning properly. And like I said, in a case like this, I think in my 17-year career, I've called a firearm injury an accident twice out of all, right? We, I've even had, unfortunately, a 12-year-old shoot her nine-year-old brother, quote unquote, accidentally, but in the pure sense, that's death at the hands of another. We don't, whether you meant to do it with their intention behind it, and then we leave the charges up to law enforcement and prosecutors on how they want to proceed that way. But this might be a difficult one because, you know, as a jury member might see, well, the medical examiner said this is an accident. Exactly.

But how many accidents on the set amount to criminal negligence? That's going to be the issue for the jury. Accidents happen, but if they happen repeatedly on the same set, then you're sacrificing speed for safety. They're going to think that it rise to the level of the duty of care that was violated. So they may be able to say, in fact, the prosecutor, the New Mexico prosecutor used the word accident, but that doesn't mean that he's not going to be found guilty because how many times do you have to really compromise that safety standard to where they're going to be able to say he should have known that this was a dangerous set or he should have checked the gun

guys i want you to take a listen to our cut 68 this is our this is from our friends at koat the film sets armor hannah gutierrez reed is the daughter of a well-known prop master fel reed she's also facing the same charge of involuntary manslaughter as Baldwin. That includes the possible mandatory five-year sentence. Assistant director David Halls reached a plea agreement. He will plead guilty to negligent use of a deadly weapon and will face six months of probation.

Back to Johannes Chimueno, film and TV safety expert and VIP of StarNetwork.com. Johannes, again, thank you for being with us. Now, if I had been trying this case, I would have put both of these two on trial together and let them stew in the same pot. Because Baldwin is blaming her. Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, she was the prop master. She was in charge of all the weapons, the fake bullets. It was her responsibility to know there were blanks in there.

She's blaming him. He's the one that pulled the trigger. I would absolutely let them stew together in the same pot. What do you make of each one of them pointing the finger at the other, Johannes? Well, Nancy, I think there's going to be a lot that comes from this in terms of discovery and going through the entire process at trial. If you were to have both events do in the same pot, as you just mentioned, and hearing many of the experts chime in on many aspects of the case right now as it stands, but looking prior to it, I heard the comment from one of the experts on this call state the standard

of care and the standard of the environment based on the production. And I think that's going to be an interesting look at it. What are these standards? And how do we assess these standards based on the situation that's facing somebody dead, Alita Hutchinson, as well as many of the people that were involved, all the parties, whether it's Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, whether it's Alec Baldwin, as well as, I don't think anybody mentioned, the first assistant director, Swalza. From my understanding, he took a plea deal.

So is he going to be also brought in to testify against Alec Baldwin, as well as Hannah Gutierrez-Reed? Well put, Johannes. I think that's very possible. And all the people that Baldwin was on TV talking about, that they're the ones that know what really happened. Well, guess what? I think they're going to be state's witnesses. But speaking of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, take a listen to our Cut 70, our friends at ABC.

This is a major, really significant finding here. When you talk about Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, for starters, she was just 24 years old. It was her second time serving as an armorer on a movie set. And she has said all along through her attorney that this was simply Alec Baldwin's fault, point blank, that he pulled the trigger. Of course, you know, in that now famous, infamous interview that Alec Baldwin did with George Stephanopoulos, he denied, he disputed ever pulling the trigger. The FBI has now said that based on their findings that they have concluded that the gun otherwise would not have fired. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

This is a major, really significant finding here. When you talk about Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, for starters, she was just 24 years old. It was her second time serving as an armorer on a movie set. And she has said all along through her attorney that this was simply Alec Baldwin's fault, point blank, that he pulled the trigger. Of course, you know, in that now famous, infamous interview that Alec Baldwin did with George Stephanopoulos, he denied, he disputed ever pulling the trigger. The FBI has now said that based on their findings that they have concluded that the gun otherwise would not have fired. Okay, you know what? All this, I didn't pull the trigger business, that's going to be squelched by the FBI. And Alexis Tereschuk, he should never, Baldwin should

never have gone on TV and blabbed. He should never have given interviews ever because everything he said can be played back to the jury. And him going, I didn't pull the trigger. Well, that makes him out a liar. Because the FBI says, yes, you did. We tested not just a gun, but the gun. And somebody pulled the trigger. They did. And the FBI said with the hammer, they said it was in the quarter and a half cock position.

So he pulled it back a little bit. And then the gun, and quote from the FBI report, it says, could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger. And so that's the FBI. This is what they do. Alec Baldwin is an actor. He's very good at pretending to have feelings about anything. So if he's crying or anything else, you have to remember, this is his job that he has won multiple awards for for decades. Absolutely. And I got to tell you, I love him as an actor.

I don't care about him one way or the other politically. I don't give a flying fig about what he thinks politically. I don't know why celebrities always want to tell us what they think about politics while they're speaking from their multi-million dollar mansion in Montecito or their penthouse in New York. Don't care. But his acting is great. And speaking of that, what effect will it have on this jury? Take a listen to our cut 76 from KOB4. Everybody's been familiar with the Baldwin family for generations, right? Whether you knew who Alec Baldwin was before the Russ movie shooting or not, it seems safe to say everybody may know who he is now.

So how does this star power affect a possible jury trial? In this, it's a little different situation because it's not just Santa Fe news covering this non-stop. It's national news. So there's not really another jurisdiction within the state that probably would be fairer in terms of not having as much access to the media or watching it or knowing the facts. Okay, to you, Alexis Tereshia, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what about Alec Baldwin's star power? That's going to have a huge effect on the jury, although some of them may know him more for his political leanings

and may disagree or agree with him. He was known for playing Donald Trump on Saturday Night Live. Okay, wait, right there, I've got three people sitting here, and every one of them started laughing when you said that. Three people from completely different areas. One is from another country, and they all smiled when you said that. So if they all know about it, then somebody, at least one person on the jury is going to know about it. And, of course, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor.

It doesn't matter if the jury's heard of Alec Baldwin or even heard of this case. You don't want somebody on the jury that's living under a rock in a cave on the other side of the world. Oh, that's right. All they have to do is agree that they can make their decision based on the facts and evidence introduced at trial. But what about the star power in the politics? Yeah, the star power in the politics, probably in reverse order sometimes, depending on the fact that we have a presidential election coming up. That's going to obviously be an issue no matter where you move it.

Nancy, we could move it to the moon, and you'd have three people smiling to heard of Alice Baldwin in this case and probably saw his recitations on Saturday Night Live. When you have a case involving a star that has this much reach and has this much popularity for so many years, and we've been watching him for decades, it's going to be impossible to argue that there's any place you could move it where he'd get a fairer trial than if we had it right in the jurisdiction where they're familiar with it. I don't know. Once the medical examiner gets on the stand and describes how Helena Hutchins suffered and bled out. And you know, Dr. Jane Gorniak, I've got a question. I remember when I got what I thought

was a terrible diagnosis from a doctor. And praise the Lord, it ended up being just fine. But all I could think about in those moments were my children, John, David, and Lucy. That's all I thought about, being raised without a mother. And in those moments, that's what flashed into my mind. And I find it really hard to believe that as Helena Hutchins was bleeding out, she didn't think about her child and her husband and her home. Like, why am I just not at home? Why am I not with them? Will I ever see them again as her life slipped away? And that breaks my heart. I think no juror is going to be impervious to that. Right. And sometimes, you know, as physicians, we just speak the science, right? Just what we're seeing.

But yeah, that does play into my mind sometimes too, because these deaths, most of the deaths that we deal with are not immediate. So yes, there, I mean, she unfortunately is, you know, has been shot in the chest and she, what we say is bleeding out. The projectile also hit her spinal cord, so she probably couldn't move her legs. So, not only the fear, you know, that you're going through, but also, like, you're pointing out what, quote-unquote, flashes before your eyes, right? Like, am I going to see my kids again?

My husband, you know, is this life. And what people's minds, you know, go through at that point is sometimes you'd rather not think about it. Oh, I would much rather not think about it. Yeah. Guys, I think it's all said perfectly by Mary Cormack Altaweiss, the district attorney. Take a listen to our cut 81. There was such a lack of safety and safety standards on that set that there were live rounds on set.

They were mixed in with regular dummy rounds. Nobody was checking those, or at least they weren't checking them consistently. And then they somehow got loaded into a gun, handed off to Alec Baldwin. He didn't check it. He didn't do any of the things that he was supposed to do to make sure that he was safe or that anyone around him was safe. And then he pointed the gun at Helena Hutchins and he pulled the trigger. Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they are going to handle that gun,

point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone. And this is really about justice for Helena Hutchins. We've talked to many actors, A-list and otherwise, that have said that they always check their guns or they have someone check it in front of them. So it's not, an actor doesn't get a free pass just because they're an actor. And that's what's so important is that we're saying here in New Mexico, everyone's equal under the law. Everyone has to follow their duties and do what's right and take that safety into account so that this doesn't ever happen again. There you have, that's the whole opening

statement right there. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.