Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Movie Star Alec Baldwin Claims PTSD "AFTER HE SHOOTS DIRECTOR DEAD"

Episode Date: December 14, 2021

Actor Alec Baldwin's wife Hilaria Baldwin takes to social media sharing that her husband has had PTSD for some time now. This coming in the after math of the shooting of Halnya Hutchins, the cinematographer on the set of the film “Rust.” Hutchins died after a gun Baldwin was handling in preparation of a scene discharged. Baldwin says he did not pull the trigger, but had said he pulled back the hammer on the gun and released it. An investigation showed a live round was in the gun.Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' Paul Szych - Former Police Commander, Author: "StopHimFromKillingThem" on Amazon Kindle, StopHimFromKillingThem.com, Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat, Screen Actors Guild-Eligible Actor, Experience using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes (Terminator: Salvation) Dr. Michelle DuPre - Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Former Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff's Department Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 30 Rock, Boss Baby, Hunt for Red October, countless appearances on Saturday Night Live. That can only mean one name, Alec Baldwin. That name is a household name, Alec Baldwin. But what about the name Helena Hutchins? The woman most legal eagles believe he shot dead. Baldwin, whether you agree or disagree with all of his political leanings, has always had a reputation for being, let's just say, impetuous. That may be one way to put it.

He's been called the bloviator because of his frequent angry outbursts, but the shooting of Helena Hutchins is a whole nother thing. What is seemingly an accident is being, let's say, viewed through a different lens now that his wife has taken to the airwaves to complain about her and her husband's treatment. Now, remember, you've got a beautiful young woman, a mother, a wife, dead. Many people would argue this is not the time for you to complain about how you, the shooter and his wife, are being mischaracterized in the media. Take a listen to Alec Baldwin's wife, Hilaria Baldwin. One thing I've learned from entering this famous world is that when you get negative attention, whether it's from trolls or tabloid media, and people say to you, I'll just ignore it. That's what they want. If you give them attention,

this is literally what they want. The issue is if you don't say anything, you're giving them a space for them to speak for you. And your silence sometimes speaks enough for them to be able to commandeer your story. But I mean, it's tricky because you don't want to be constantly just responding to every single crazy, crazy thing that they say. One thing I want you guys to start to maybe hear from me is that there is a difference between covering a news story and creating a news story. We oftentimes have people creating news stories about us. So instead of speaking out about the dead woman or her child or her husband or the pain that her family is going through, she chose that moment to discuss how she and her husband are being betrayed in the media. While everything she said may be true, was that the right time to lament your misfortune?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. all poor mouthing and whining aside, many people believe what happened to Helena Hutchins was in fact an accident. Does anyone really believe Alec Baldwin meant to shoot Helena right there on the set? A woman he had been working with for some time, a woman well-liked and very talented? Probably not. But what does the law say? The law says two conflicting things in this scenario.

Number one, accident is a complete defense under the law. If this was an accident, he is totally exonerated. The law also says that the law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act. If I take a piece of fine china, so fine you could practically see through it, and I throw it to a cement floor, The law will presume I intend to break it. I intend the natural consequence of my act. So when you take a weapon and point it at someone and fiddle with the hammer, the law assumes you intend the natural consequence of your act. Two, in this case, this fact scenario, conflicting legal assumptions. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. What happened and why

is Baldwin giving full-on interviews as well as his wife spouting off on Instagram? With me, an all-star panel, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon. You can find her at wendypatrickphd.com. She's the host of Today with Dr. Wendy at KCBQ San Diego, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of LA at drbethanymarshall.com. And you can her she's in the hit series bling empire on netflix paul zeich former police commander author of stop him from killing them on amazon wow you can find him at stop him from killing them.com dr michelle dupree with us, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, but first to Alexis Teresh at CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter. Alexis, I know you're in the thick of it there in L.A., but I want you to take a listen to, again, Hilaria Baldwin.

This is our Cut 49 speaking out on Instagram. Now, my husband is suffering from PTSD right now. It's something that not just from what happened recently, but he's been suffering from this for a very, very, very long time. So now I'm hearing instead of about the victim in this case that bled out, there was a hole in her jacket, spurting blood on the set. I'm hearing about Alec Baldwin's PTSD. Okay. Some would say don't care, but Alexis Tereshchuk, why is he giving full on interviews? And why is his wife speaking about but here's some super cute pictures of our whole family. And people immediately slammed her saying, you are not at all being any way sensitive to this little boy who has lost his family. No one needs to see pictures of your kids. They really don't. You can take these pictures,

you can put them up in your house, you can send them to your parents, but this doesn't need to be something where people think you're bragging about having all your children alive when this woman's little boy is dead. Hold on just a alexis tereschuk with me longtime friend and colleague joining me from la alexis you said something that i've got to go to dr bethany on dr bethany marshall is with us guys renowned psychoanalyst to the stars in la dr bethany in this world it's almost as if you don't post it, it didn't happen. That's right. I was expecting a little more than that's right. So let me rephrase my question.

That's an old crutch I used in trial when the witness was not saying what I wanted the witness to say. Let me rephrase, Your Honor, then me look at the witness and try again. What is that when people believe or they act as if they can't really believe it? If they don't post it, then it didn't happen. It's a whole, if a tree falls in the forest, does anybody, does it make a sound if nobody hears it? Blah, blah. What is that, Dr. Bethany? That feeling you've got to post everything to make it real. Oh, I see what you're saying. I call it tone deaf on her part and very self-referential. Her life is completely wrapped around. Bethany, we're not all psychoanalysts to the stars. You got to slow it down a little bit.

Take from 80 MbH out of 60. Maybe I can understand it. Go ahead. Self what? Self-referential. Everything refers. Self what? Self referential. Everything refers back to her and to her family. Remember, one of the things she posted is that her husband, Alec Baldwin, has had PTSD for a long, long time. Well, before this accident, she's trying to claim that he has post-traumatic stress disorder from being a star.

He chose to be a star. Please stop. I need to just soak that in. Okay. Look, I'm just a trial lawyer doing my thing. Alec Baldwin is a big, huge movie star. You know how many times I've seen Boss Baby and Boss Baby 2 with the children? So he's this huge megastar. I'm just a trial lawyer. So I kind of feel like this is a David and Goliath thing here. But did you just say he has PTSD from being a star? That's what his wife is claiming. Can you imagine if the president- There wasn't like a childhood trauma.

He didn't fight overseas. He wasn't in a car crash. He wasn't a crime victim. He wasn't in a car crash. He wasn't a crime victim. He wasn't in a hurricane. The PTSD is from being a star. That can't be true. Are you sure? She is saying this. Why does Alec Baldwin have PTSD? Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. Can you imagine if the president of the United States said, oh, I have PTSD because I'm on the news every night or any other big star. See what happened? What's happening is that Hilaria,

not only is she tone deaf. Hilaria. Hilaria. Hilaria. Hilaria is tone deaf in posting her children's cute Halloween pictures. She's saying that her husband who chose to be a TV star, who's from a family of stars is traumatized by his prominent position in society. And the fact that she is saying that means that she is covering over the fact that there was a huge tragedy, Helena's death.

See, it detracts from that. It takes the whole public attention down a different road. Poor Alec, he has PTSD because he's a star, not because he shot somebody inadvertently, but he's been this way for a long, long time. She's really throwing the discussion off. She is changing the public discourse away from the facts. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, joining me. Wendy, I remember when I would go on trial, well, almost the whole 10 years I was a prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, I would almost always wear Navy and black, no jewelry, no fingernail polish, nothing like that. And I'll tell you why, because so after the first, say, 18 months prosecuting, once I first started trying cases, my cases very quickly shifted to homicide. And there was just something wrong with wearing like a bright would be dealing with such upsetting material and I would have the victim's families there.

And it just felt wrong. And very often, Wendy, now when I appear on camera, people always say these are friends. Why don't you ever smile? I'm like, about what? I'm typically talking about a case where there is a fatality, a death, or molestation, or an arson. And I can't bring myself to smile about it. That is so wrong under those circumstances. Did you go through that as well as a prosecutor? Well, I certainly did because I began my career as a deputy public defender where I dressed very differently. There's a sense of what I call counterintuition in my book where the consistency matters to a jury. If you are too light, too dismissive, too distracting, it really detracts

from the message you're seeking to send, especially if you're there representing the interests of crime victims. So I dress the same way as you. Sometimes I would add the small string of pearls, but it was really sort of an air of making sure that my message is consistent with what I want to impress upon the jury. And that's true, too, no matter whether you're a trial lawyer, you're a celebrity, you're a spokesperson, there has to be that sense of seriousness

and consistency that might be lacking if you're distracting. But in Alec Baldwin's defense, he did talk about the fact that he is not really the victim, although that may be how he's being betrayed right now by his wife. Take a listen to Our Cut 50. This is Baldwin speaking on ABC. When I talk about this, my concern is that I don't sound like I'm the victim. Because there is a victim. There's a woman who died. And my friend got shot. He's my friend. And she was a new friend. I met her and we worked together on the some of the mapping out of what we're going to do on the film, which, you know, in the movie terms, if you go make a movie with Scorsese, you and the DP don't sit down. They solicit your ideas of how to make the film. You know, I mean, in the case of Helena, we sat down collaboratively and talked a lot about what we wanted to do in that precious amount of time we had. But I want to make sure that I don't come across like I'm the victim because we have two victims here. That is true. He's not the victim, but that is the way his wife is portraying

them. And what can you tell me, Alexis Teres truck about the, the photos and the posts that are happening now? I know you mentioned the Halloween photo, a recent photo of them getting their Christmas tree. Why is that rubbing so many people the wrong way? People feel that Hilaria Baldwin is bragging about her own family and saying, Oh, look at how wonderful we are. We have so many kids. And there's not to say you shouldn't love and be proud of your children, of course, but you have to, people want her to be respectful that a woman did lose her life. A little boy has lost his mom and he can't see any more pictures. And whether or not Alex is not a victim, he may not be the ultimate reason it happened, but he was holding the gun when it fired and she died. You cannot dispute that.

And therefore, is it true that he recently stated he did not pull the trigger, Alexis? Yes, he said that he did not pull the trigger. He was just going to go off if it's in his hand and it fires. How did it go off if he didn't pull the trigger? So his exact quote was, I cocked the gun. So what he's saying is he pulled back the hammer. This is not a semi-automatic weapon. This is an old fashioned weapon. It was a Western film, you know, from the 1800s. So it's an older pistol and he pulls back the hammer. Now,

that is not how it would normally, the gun would normally fire. But he says he's holding it. They're doing what's called blocking. The director, she is saying, hold it, pull it up, push it down. Let's turn a little bit to the right i just want to make sure i'm getting the shot right and he says then he cocked it and he let go of the hammer of the gun so this the piece on the top and then he says the gun goes off i let go of the hammer of the gun the gun goes off those are his exact words here what alec baldwin has to. This is him speaking with our friends at ABC, our Cut 52. This was a completely incidental shot, an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all. But we kept doing this. So then I said to her, now in this scene, I'm going to cock the gun. I said, do you want to see that? And she said,

yes. So I take the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm not going to pull the trigger. I said, do you see this? She goes, well, just cheat it down and tilt it down a little bit like that. And I cock the gun. I go, can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that? And she says, and I let go of the hammer.

The gun goes off. At the moment. That was the moment the gun went off. Yeah, that was the moment the gun went off. It wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled. Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. So you never pulled the trigger?

No, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never. That was the training that be pulled. Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. So you never pulled the trigger? No, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never. That was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. On day one of my instruction in this business, people said to me, never take a gun and go click, click, click, click, click. Because even though it's incremental, you damage the firing pin on the gun if you do that. Don't do that. Interesting. Take listen to our cut 53. More of Baldwin speaking. So you have this Colt 45 you just pulled the hammer as far back as I can without cocking the actual

and you're holding on to the hammer. I'm holding that. I'm just showing. I go, how about that? Does that work? Do you see that? Do you see that? She goes, yeah, that's good. I let go of the hammer. Bang, the gun goes. Everyone is horrified. They're shocked. It's loud. They don't have their earplugs in. The're shocked. It's loud.

They don't have their earplugs in. The gun was supposed to be empty. I was told I was handed an empty gun. There were cosmetic rounds, nothing with a charge at all, a flash round, nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint? You're hearing Alec Baldwin giving his version of what happened the day Helena Hutchins is shot dead on the set by the gun he's holding in his hand,

obviously pointed at her. Paul Zyka is with us, former police commander. Author stopped him from killing them on Amazon. Paul, what is he saying that he pulled back the hammer and let go? Explain why that would cause the gun to fire. It's irrelevant whether or not he pulled the trigger in what he's explaining. He's pulling back the hammer of the gun and he doesn't bring it all the way back to where it locks. Once that hammer's pulled far enough back, it locks in place. And then at that point,

you would need a trigger to be pulled to allow it to fall and strike the firing pin and then strike the primer to the bullet that's in the chamber. And what he's describing is why I'm pulling back the hammer and, you know, getting different angles and he pulls it back far enough and then let's go of it. Well, that energy that that hammer has in falling forward, it's going to be very close to whether he fired it from a cocked position or fired it from, you know, a half cocked position where when he lets go of his thumb, the hammer drops and the gun still functions just as if if the hammer would have been cocked and the trigger would have been pulled so really at this point um that's irrelevant because it sounds like you're saying he shot the gun via the hammer bypassing the trigger yeah so so if you're if you're screwing around with the hammer, you're pulling it back, and the weapon is aimed in a direction that is unsafe,

and then you let go of the hammer, and the hammer falls forward and causes the weapon to discharge, that's the same as cocking it and pulling the trigger because that style of gun, that's the way it operates. It's a single-action gun. So he's manipulating the gun. The gun's being aimed. way it operates. It's a single action gun. So he's manipulating the gun, the gun's being aimed, the gun fires, you have somebody dead, you have another person injured. Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, weigh in. Well, it could have happened exactly as he said, because when the hammer is pulled back, when you release the hammer, the gun goes off and it's fired. But the real question is, why was there a real bullet in the gun in

the first place? And who put it there? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I think a lot of people don't understand the workings, the mechanisms of a pistol like this. Granted, it was an old gun, an antique gun, but it was not a prop. Prop pistols do not shoot. That's the first thing we have to understand. This was not a prop gun. Why they didn't use props, I don't know. Alexis Tereshchik, isn't that standard SOP in movies that you use a prop, not an actual gun? No, it's not.

Unfortunately, they are real guns. They are not supposed to be loaded, but they are not prop guns. Even considering that there were there have been tragedies over the years of people dying on set accidentally getting shot but they are real guns you think that they could make it hollywood can make anything but no people use real guns of course yeah jump in you know nancy i think you bring up a good point and and that's something i've been seeing for a while you You know, this is a deadly weapon. This is a gun.

This is a firearm that was meant to fire bullets, and it's being utilized as a prop. It's not a prop gun, but it's a deadly weapon being utilized as a prop. For instance, if you had a prop knife, a prop knife wouldn't be razor sharp. It would have a dull edge. That would make it a prop. It's not intended to be used as a knife. Real big difference between those two things. Guys, take a listen to our cut number six, our friends at News Nation. Let's start with the people responsible for handling a gun. There are no ubiquitous rules across all film sets, but generally there are

some guidelines that they follow adhering to a budget, budget usually plays a big role. On many sets, there are no fewer than three people responsible for monitoring a weapon. The prop master, who's in charge of all props, is often supported by a safety officer and a stunt coordinator. And depending on the state, you may also need to bring in an armorer whose only job is handling weapons. An armorer is required by New Mexico state law. That person directly communicates with the director of photography to ensure gun safety and should

be constantly monitoring that weapon. Very rarely is live ammunition used on a movie set anymore. Nowadays, the visual effects, graphics afterwards are the most common practice, but sometimes they still do use blanks. You've heard a lot about it. Blanks are just like normal bullets, except they don't have a bullet. Instead, they're loaded with plastic or felt or paper, something to give a spark to simulate that firing effect. But they can still be very deadly, especially when fired at close range, even if they're not improperly loaded. So would he have known, let me throw this to you, Paul Zeich, would he have known that pulling back the hammer, which is the, I don't know how to explain it any other way, the mechanism on the top of the gun, that letting go of it would have the same effect as pulling the trigger? He definitely should have known that. And any manipulation of that firearm, of that type, of a single action gun, that the hammer is the whole story real risk of that slipping out of your thumb's

grip and going forward and causing an accidental discharge so yeah even if he didn't know he should have known that's basic firearm knowledge involving that firearm it should have been about it should have been germane to the briefing that he was given by the armor or whoever the safety officer is on any given set. I mean, I don't understand. Everybody's saying I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't touch it. I didn't put the bullet in. Somebody put a bullet in that gun, Alexis. The armor says no. The assistant director says no. Baldwin says no. Everybody says they didn't do it. So who did it, Alexis? That is what the police are trying to find out. And that is why there has been a subpoena issued, because David Hall, the assistant director, is not speaking with the investigators,

which is his right. But they want to speak to him to find out exactly what happened, because everybody there have been so many statements. Law enforcement has said that only David Halls, Alec Baldwin, the armorer is a young woman named Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. This was only her second movie where she had been in charge of the weapons. And then there was a prop master, a woman. So these people are the only ones that handled this gun. Everybody is saying there wasn't a lot live ammunition, but apparently there was. Police seized over 500 rounds of ammunition.

They found some of it was live in there. So what they're doing is trying to trace it back and figure out where each and every bullet on that set came from and figure out how the live one went from in the box. Was it just all together in a messy box or was it systematically put in there there have even isn't it true that there were reports the crew was taking target practice with that gun and other guns on their lunch breaks that just sounds so out of procedure to have live ammo and target for what? Why were you have target practice? This is a movie.

You're not out in the wild, wild west. Why are they doing that? Well, they kind of were out in the wild, wild west. It was out in the middle of nowhere. When people shoot at each other, Alexis. No, target practice, not at each other. Target practice. Let me just try to rephrase my question.

And you know what that means. This is not the wild west where people shot at each other in gun battles. Also, Wild Wild West is phraseology, Alexis, to refer to a, let us say, cavalier attitude where people are not taking into account safety precautions. For instance, if I come home from work and see the children jumping from sofa to chair, I might say, what is this, the Wild Wild West? Because everybody's acting crazy. My point is, this is not the Wild Wild West, although you have so accurately pointed out that the film was being shot in the West. My point is, why are they taking target practice

at lunch? I think a very clear answer for that is, you know, all things being equal, it's the simplest explanation. And that is, you have too many people in charge with too much power on the set with not enough accountability. You know, you've got a primary actor who's a superstar, who's also the producer of the film. I mean, who's going to step in and tell him, hey, look, this is unsafe, don't do that, or risk, you know, upsetting him. That's something that's, you know, it's probably not going to happen. And, you know, like, for instance, my experience on Terminator Salvation, we were out in the middle of a little area called Algodones,

which is just south of Santa Fe, New Mexico, in a giant field with no houses in sight in the middle of the night being issued fully automatic guns with blanks in them. And we would go out to the battle scenes and fire them off in a fully automatic capacity, hundreds of rounds, and then come back and hand those weapons straight to the armors, good chain of custody, and not touch anything again until the next battle scene. So regardless of if it was in the Wild West or it was out in the middle of nowhere, it's a workplace just like any other workplace. And there's obligations to keep it safe. And that didn't happen. Take us to our cut 55. This is Baldwin himself speaking to our friends at ABC. People said to me, I mean, I got countless people online saying, This is Baldwin himself speaking to our friends at ABC. this thing in common where we both thought it was empty and it wasn't. And that's not her

responsibility. That's not my responsibility. Whose responsibility remains to be seen. But there are some who say you're never supposed to point a gun at anyone on a set, no matter what. Unless the person is the cinematographer who's directing me where to point the gun for her camera angle. That's exactly what happened. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the fatality on the set of Rust. Helena Hutchins, a young mom, very talented director of photography, is dead. We now are hearing about multiple lawsuits being filed.

Alexis Tereshak, where does a criminal investigation stand? And what about civil lawsuits being filed? The criminal investigation is still ongoing. The assistant director, David Halls, has been subpoenaed. He has been refusing to speak with investigators. He said he doesn't want to speak until after the criminal investigation is completed. They need to speak with him to complete the criminal investigation. And then there have been multiple lawsuits that have been fired by cast and crew members from the set. And they have been filed

against Baldwin, against the producers, against Hall, and against Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who was the armor. To Alexis Tereshchuk again, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. There was, they call it a scandal. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care one way or the other, where Baldwin's wife was in quite a pickle after claiming she was from Spain and went on air in a cooking segment somewhere and pretended she didn't know the name for what cucumber. How do you say, I believe, were her words. I think she was raised in New England, actually, and I'm pretty sure they have cucumbers there. But that aside, that would make me very leery of what I said on social media. And this is really coming back to haunt her. Take a listen to our cut 49.

This is Baldwin's wife, Hilaria Baldwin. My husband is suffering from PTSD right now. It's something that not just from what happened recently, but he's been suffering from this for a very, very, very long time. And these people know this and they want to poke at him and they want to upset him. And then they want to create news about this. So if you create a news story, then the next day there's going to be tons of paparazzi and there's going to be more stories that come up with that.

And there's more clicks and more shares and money, which is ultimately what this is all about. I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you're the psychoanalyst to the stars. Isn't that part of celebrity? People are going to pick apart everything you say. They're going to take pot shots at you. They're going to say horrible things online that you don't want to read and you don't want your children to

read for Pete's sake. Isn't that part of it, kitten caboodle? Nancy, part of being a celebrity is exactly what she's talking about. People are interested in you. If they're not interested in you, you would not be a celebrity. You know, it sounds to me like Hilaria and Alec Baldwin. Hilaria! Hilaria, I'm so sorry. Hilaria and Alec Baldwin have a narrative going between the two of them that it is not really his fault. So I was listening to the ABC interview. And you know, I have a theory as a psychoanalyst, when somebody does something bad, they don't really tell the truth in the aftermath. It's not that he's lying per se, or he's trying to speak in mistruths purposefully, but he's subtly minimizing the gravity of what happened. Because basically what he's saying is that Helena was looking in a monitor, was blocking the scene. He's cocking the hammer,

the top part of the gun, the top mechanism, as you said. And he was doing it at her direction. He didn't really pull the trigger. And there's a slight quality of undoing the gravity. As he's speaking to George Stephanopoulos, I don't think he's consciously lying. I think he's minimizing and undoing. I think the thought that he shot and killed somebody is undigestible. And so he wouldn't be able to tell the truth in the aftermath. Hilaria, on the other hand, is completely off the reservation. She's basically saying that, you know, he has PTSD because he's a celebrity, not because he shot somebody. Nancy, do you know the top example in the Diagnostic and

Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for what causes PTSD? It's witnessing the death of a good friend or loved one. That is at the very top. And that is exactly what happened to him. And that's why he has post-traumatic stress, not because he's a media star. But she's saying he has had it for a quote, long time. That would go against being a celebrity. Hilaria Baldwin claims husband Alec Baldwin has been suffering from PTSD for a quote long time, even before the rust shooting. And she goes on to complain about living in the quote famous world. Take a listen to our cut 48. One thing I've learned from entering this famous world is that when you get

negative attention, whether it's from trolls or tabloid media, and people say to you, oh, just ignore it. That's what they want. If you give them attention, this is literally what they want. The issue is if you don't say anything, you're giving them a space for them to speak for you. And your silence sometimes speaks enough for them to be able to commandeer your story. But I mean, it's tricky because you don't want to be constantly just responding to every single crazy, crazy thing that they say. One thing I want you guys to start to maybe hear from me is that there is a difference between covering a new story and creating a news story. We oftentimes have people creating news stories about us.

I understand that she believes she's helping, but I've learned the hard way in court that there's a reason we have the Fifth Amendment. There is a reason we have the Fifth Amendment. There is a reason. It's there to protect you from egregious behavior by the state, such as prosecutors, such as cops, detectives, investigators. The Constitution can't protect you from yourself. I would suggest, let me spare all legalese. If you really want to help your husband, lady, shut your pie hole. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.