Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Murdaugh Proclaims Innocence, Gets Life in Prison for Murders

Episode Date: March 4, 2023

Disgraced South Carolina Attorney Alex Murdaugh convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the murders of his wife and child. Paul Murdaugh, 22, and his mother, Maggie Murdaugh, 52, were found shot to death on June 7 at their family’s hunting lodge in Colleton County, South Carolina.  The victims, who were located outside the residence, had multiple gunshot wounds. In court today, as Murdaugh stood for sentencing, he addressed the court saying he was innocent.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Alan Wilson- South Carolina Attorney General, Twitter: @AGAlanWilson Creighton Waters- South Carolina Lead Prosecutor Dr Kenneth Kinsey Orangebury county chief deputy, Former SLED special agent   Deputy Danny Gregory - Assigned to security of courtroom, jurors, and transport of Murdaugh. Colleton County Sheriff, SWAT, former DEA, former Air Marshal, assistant federal security director for Savannah  Mark Tinsley- Civil litigation Attorney & Mallory Beach’s parents’ lawyer, MarkTinsley.com Dale Carson - High Profile Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com, Twitter: @DaleCarsonLaw  Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host of YouTube channel- ‘The Interview Room’, ColdCaseFoundation.org Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Twitter: @JosephScottMorg Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant, DMichelleDupreMD.com Kelly Skehen - Fox Nation Senior Producer   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Hello everybody, we have just come out of the courtroom and take a listen to Judge Newman in our cut four. Mr. Murdoch, I sentence you to the State Department of Corrections on each of the murder indictments. In the murder of your wife Maggie Murdoch, I sentence you for the term of the rest of your natural life, for the murder of Paul Murdaugh, whom you probably love so much, I sentence you to prison for murdering him for the rest of your natural life.

Those sentences will run consecutive. Under the statute involving possession of a weapon during a violent crime, there is no sentence where a life sentence is imposed on other indictments. That is the sentence of the court, and you are remanded to the State Department of Corrections. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Station and Sirius XM 111. The judge, Judge Neumann, has handed down the maximum, which is life behind bars, for the remainder of Alex Murdoch's natural life. The kicker is the judge ran these sentences consecutively, which means one after the other. Based on this sentence, Alex Murdoch will never get out from behind bars and in his very still, calm, methodical way. You heard Newman almost sympathetic to Alex Murdoch, yet firm in giving him the maximum. Kind of pining for the man Murdoch once was, calling him friendly, gregarious, well-known and well-liked in the courthouse, but yet still guilty. Court is adjourned. I don't recall hearing Judge Newman slam that gavel one time during the trial. He managed to convey very firm orders with never raising his voice.

And I've got to tell you something. I have never heard a judge speak the way this judge just spoke to the defendant at sentencing. Almost empathetic with the man Alex Murdoch once was, but never letting up on his quest for justice for Paul and Maggie. It was amazing to us that at the time, Alex Murdoch had a chance to throw himself on the mercy of the court, to apologize, to try and make some sort of amends. He chose to repeat his lies that he is innocent. And this is even after a jury has returned a guilty verdict on all counts, not apologizing for the grief he caused his family due to his opioid addiction. Three failed attempts at drying out in rehab. All the grief his family endured. The

heartache they endured. No apology at all. But instead, clinging to his innocence, his plea of innocence. And you know why? It's a legal tactic. If he were to admit right there, judge, I did it. I was out of my mind on opioids. I can hardly remember it. I torture myself day and night. Please have mercy on me. No, he never did that. Instead, he clung to his insistence on innocence because when this goes to appeal, and yes, it will go on appeal. I don't know the grounds yet. I've got some ideas, but it will go up on appeal. And if he were to admit guilt, it would most likely hurt his chances on appeal. That's why he did not come clean in front of the judge. It was an amazing moment in the courtroom. And I've had a lot of respect for a lot of judges over the years.

But I've got to tell you, hearing Judge Newman in that sentencing made me respect the bench as much as I ever have, if not more. No vicious cuts at anyone's expense. Just laying out the facts. He talked about having to take the grandfather's portrait down out of the courtroom to hear this case. He talked about the legal dynasty of the Murdochs, how his father, his grandfather, had prosecuted cases in this courtroom, alluding to the embarrassment and the shame that Murdoch has brought upon his family. He talked about what wonderful people Maggie was, and how Paul was probably the one Murdoch loved so dearly. But even now, Murdoch never broke with his mantra, I am innocent.

In the end, the judge says, our business is done here. And he banged that gavel and everybody started moving. I want you, for anyone that has missed it, to hear just some of what the judge said. Take a listen to this. This has been perhaps one of the most troubling cases, not just for me as a judge, for the state, for the defense team, but for all of the citizens in this community, all the citizens in this state, a wife who's been killed, murdered, a son savagely murdered, a lawyer, a person from a respected family who has controlled justice in this community for over a century. It's also particularly troubling, Mr. Meridob, because you've practiced law before me, and it was especially heartbreaking for me to see you go in the media from being a grieving father who lost a wife and a son to being the person indicted and convicted of killing them. You know, the way the judge laid that out, basically chronicling in his own calm way. Alex Murdoch's fall from grace, and he was graced. He had every blessing you can imagine. A wife that was faithful, that raised his sons, two sons

that have their lives in front of them, three, not one, not two, but three beautiful homes. Life handed to him on a silver platter. The judge chronicled it all before handing down a sentence. We are expecting the Attorney General out and the lead prosecutor will be joining us along with the sheriff that walked Murdoch out of the courthouse and the clerk that had to stand up and read that jury's decision. They will all be joining us. They're coming out of the courthouse. And we'll take you to them live the minute we get them. Right now, I want you to hear our cut 11.

When Murdoch, given an opportunity by the judge to make peace. And I got to tell you, one of the most chilling moments was when the judge, and Christine, try to find this if you can, looked at Murdoch and said, I imagine that Paul and Maggie visit you every night in your dreams. I'm telling you, a chill went down my spine. I wonder if that's true. I wonder if Murdoch does dream of them, or does he only dream of himself and connive and scheme

about how he's going to get out of this. But I want you to hear, when given the opportunity to ask for mercy, to apologize for the pain, the weight of pain he has left behind him like a speedboat, it's not what he did. Take a listen to Murdoch speaking in court. The defendant would like to address the court, though. Good morning, Your Honor. I'm innocent. I would never hurt my wife, Maggie, and I would never hurt my son, Pawpaw.

Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. He said the same thing again with me and all of our panel to make sense of what we are hearing and what has just happened in this courtroom. You know, I think one of the biggest factors was not only the defendant obviously lying on the stand getting caught in his tangled web of lies. And that was interesting. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State

University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and Star of Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, and more important to me, a very thoughtful and considered death investigator. Not just rushing into a scene, but studying it carefully, which is required in cases like this. I agree with many others that have stated Maggie and Paul spoke. I don't say the grave because I don't believe that we stay in the grave. They spoke from beyond through the evidence left behind. What say you, Morgan? Yeah, they do, Nancy. And it's very cliched for me to say this, but I'll go ahead and say it. You know, those that work in our field in forensics and particularly my field of medical legal death investigation, there's the old adage that we speak for those that can no longer speak for themselves however in this case that

evidence that was conjured up relative to paul and maggie all that remained of them uh we heard those descriptors from the scene how horrific this was they did speak they they spoke loudly and and you know what really kind of got to me i was i was a bit light-hearted uh when i was signing on this morning getting ready to chat with you i'm really looking forward to it and i gotta tell you um i've had kind of a cloud come over me now after hearing judge newman because you know what he was talking about in a small southern town like this this this was a death in the community. This was a death in that broader family there. You know, he talked about this horrible act that this man has committed, and part of that community has died. And it was very sad. You could hear that sadness in in his voice and you could also hear his admonishment

almost in a fatherly like way you know just grieving his heart's broken i think that he had to preside over this and i i don't know right now i i don't know uh what they would say but i think that some justice some measure of justice has been served for Maggie and Paul. You know, the thing is, the blood doesn't lie. Blood spatter doesn't lie. Ballistics don't lie. They can't be cross-examined. They tell the truth. Hard data like cell phone, geopositioning, car nap.

It doesn't lie. But I can tell you, aside from all of that evidence, when Miss Shelley took the stand and broke down in tears, afraid she's going to lose her job for testifying against Alex Murdoch. Remember, she was the caretaker for Murdoch's mother. And Murdoch came to her and asked her, in not so many words, to lie about his alibi. She didn't want to do it. She was so upset. She called her brother, who's chief of police nearby, upset about what Murdoch had done. And it just hammered into me, Chris McDonough, the haves and the have-nots. She was afraid she was going to lose her job.

And she took the stand anyway, and she told the truth. And you could tell she did not want to testify against Murdoch, but she did it. She told the truth. And that hurt me to see her in that position. Do you remember that, Chris? I do. I do, Nancy. And, you know, what that drives home, just on what we heard Judge Newman also talk about, not only the intimidation factor to that wonderful human being that

we're talking about, Michele, you know, she follows a moral compass. And I had the impression listening to the judge today as almost as if we were all listening at a pew somewhere on a sermon on good versus evil and what i heard very clearly the judge say is the monster within is who he was talking to within alec murdoch as well as the fact that his family oversaw cases where less than what he was facing, i.e. the death penalty, people went to prison for. Was that a signal that, you know, to the law enforcement authorities to take a look, go back, see the Miss Shelleys of the world, see if there is injustice additionally here somewhere. I just thought that was a very compelling statement to make during the sentencing here.

I wish you could. Oh, my goodness. I wish you could be here with us right now. There are so many people on the lawn of this courthouse. It's like they, it's hard to take in that it really happened, that he has really been found guilty. I had so many people come up to me while I was here, up to our tent out here in the sun and the rain and the wind and say, we know he did it, but he's going to get away with it because he's a Murdoch. I can't tell you how many people came up in all walks of life, bankers, teachers, retired principals, people that work in the food trucks around the courthouse. Nobody could believe he would really be convicted. People are just milling around.

They can't really take in that it's happened. Again, as soon as the defense team comes out, we are expecting them to make a statement as well. You know, the judge went on to talk about it. At one point, I snapped to attention when he said, you know what? The man that committed these murders may not have been you. Maybe it was you on 30, 40, 50 opioid pills. The other you. And that's something that you can figure out in the penal system. But I've got to tell

you something. Judge Scott Morgan, when he addressed, and he wasn't reading this, this is eloquent, and I've never seen a sentence handed down like this in my life, and I've seen a lot of sentences. But when he looked at Murdoch and talked about how he the judge believes Murdoch is visited at night by Paul and Maggie that would stop anybody in their tracks Joe Scott yeah Yeah, and there was not one ounce of contrition, Nancy, on this man's face. You know, when he's faced with that, and look, I know what you were saying, that there's a method to this going forward on appeal. But, you know, in the face of that, when you think about what the judge, you know, the judge, he's had to sit through trials, not like this, but he's had to determine at the end of the day what's going to happen to somebody and their life moving forward.

He knows this. He knows this territory. This is not new to him. And he sat there and he offered, he offered him an opportunity to hold forth at that moment in time and you mentioned throwing himself on the mercy of the court and and he failed miserably in that uh you know and to think now he's he's sitting back in a cell somewhere in a holding cell not a little courthouse they're going to take him to sheriff's office probably and they'll hold him there for a while. And he's going to be alone, hearing the echoes of those doors shut behind him, those steel doors. And they'll pass him a bologna sandwich, probably.

He's not going to be eating on the port-a-fair that he's used to now. And he's going to have a lot of thinking to do. A lot of thinking. Because he's at the end you know when you think about it joe scott it's a little bit uh like scott peterson who could never ever break down and admit guilt because his mother his father his family were all right behind him on the front pew every day he could not admit the way murdoch cannot admit to his family and his constituents that he did this thing guys following up on what joe scott and I were just talking about, I want you to hear

our cut 14. For those of you that missed it, I will never forget it. Listen to the judge. You know, your license to practice law has been stripped and now I have an opportunity to make your final appeal as an ex-lawyer. Can I tell you again, I respect this court, but I'm innocent. I would never under any circumstances hurt my wife Maggie, and I would never

under any circumstances hurt my son Pawpaw. And it might not have been you. It might have been the monster you become when you take 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 opioid pills. Maybe you become another person. I've seen that before. The person standing before me was not the person who committed the crime, though it's the same individual. You know, to Dr. Michelle Dupree, this is her jurisdiction. Pathologist, medical examiner, author, former detective, opioids or really many type of drugs can do that to you where you become a completely different person.

Dr. Dupree, you and I went out on the water to see where that boat crashed claimed Mallory Beach's life and it was the same thing with Paul. Remember his friends even gave him an alter ego name because he would turn into another person when he drank. Same thing with the father. That's right, Nancy. They gave him the nickname of Timmy. And yes, you know, that can definitely change someone's personality. It can make them do things that they would not ordinarily do. And, you know, perhaps that is what happened in this case. But when he was on the stand and he continued to lie and continued to lie and continued to lie, I don't think that was opioids talking. And remember, when he was interviewed, he was very crafty.

He calculated his answers. He made his answers fit the evidence that the state had. That's someone who's thinking pretty logically in my book. To Dale Carson, high profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville, former Fed with the FBI and author. Dale, could you explain why legally he would not admit he did it just in case he gets a new trial or a reversal in a new trial that could be brought in potentially? Well, keep in mind that the appellate courts are going to work within the corners of the documents that were produced during the actual trial. So they'll have transcripts to look at. They won't be able

to look at the witnesses or anyone. They're going to read that transcript. And if he were to admit that he was actually culpable, he did this, he would lose basically his ability to appeal and one of the issues that is present in a potential appeal is the fact that a juror was removed during the course of the trial and that's going to be a big deal if in fact she was leaning toward a hung jury or an acquittal. So we've yet to see where this is going to go ultimately. But I was really impressed by the judge as you were. One of the things that he said that really caught my imagination was the fact that if the state had likely charged him with death penalty in mind, this court would likely have convicted him. And that was surprising to me.

Yeah, and I don't disagree with the judge. I don't disagree at all. Guys, in Hour Cut 16, you are hearing one of the most impactful things that Judge Newman said out of everything he said, which was a lot, but so calmly and methodically delivered in almost a fatherly way. I want you to take a listen to our Cut 16. It's already ended for many who have heard you and concluded that it'll never end. But within your own soul, you have to deal with that. And I know you have to

see Paul and Maggie during the night time when you're attempting to go to sleep. I'm sure they come and visit you. All day and every night. I'm sure. And they will continue to do so. And they will continue to do so and reflect on the last time they looked you in the eyes as you looked the jury in the eyes. mysterious friendly person caused her life to be tangled in such a weave web such a situation that you um yours have spun into but you have such a lovely family of such friendly people guys uh with me is kelly ski and fox nation senior producer ke, did you hear the judge? He also discussed about how this trial and this crime was an assault on the legal community and on the judicial system and how law enforcement had been maligned for weeks and weeks and weeks. And they didn't do anything wrong because of alex murdoch all this has happened we heard

an absolutely stunning rebuke by judge clifton newman who compared alec murdoch to a monster maybe it wasn't the man standing in front of me today that killed his own wife and son but when you are on drugs you are a different person and you can convince every you can convince yourself. But you can cannot you cannot convince anyone else of your lies. Judge Clifton Newman also went on to say that this is heartbreaking. Alec Murdoch has tried cases in front of him. They have a relationship. And again, it's a stain on the legal community.

Something else that Judge Clifton Newman said was that Alec Murdoch and his family have sentenced people to death or they've, you know, they've tried death penalty cases on a lot less evidence than that. And I think that is very, very powerful. He also said, Alex Murdoch, what did you mean when you said, oh, the tangled web we weave? And Alec Murdoch said, once I lied, I continued to lie. And Judge Clifton Newman shot back with, well well when do the lies end guys i see them preparing a podium with i don't know 15 microphones to hear what in the world the defense is going to say i expect the whole defense team to be there minus one and that is alex murdoch let's go to the presser now my name is mark keel and i'm chief of the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise known as SLED.

For those of y'all in the local media, you know I don't do very many press conferences. I've been chief of SLED for 12 years, and I've only done two. The last one I did was in June of 21 to talk about significant violent crime that's just been unprecedented in our state. But today it's important for me to speak out. It's important because the victims in this case it's important because Maggie and Paul cannot I want to make one thing clear to everybody there are

no winners today I have a truly humbling responsibility as being chief of SLED. I lead a dedicated and professional group of investigators, forensic scientists, and support personnel. A staff that work day in and day out for days just like today to bring justice for victims. And today is not the end. It's the next step in a long road to justice for every person

who has been victimized by alex murdoch alex murdoch has now been rightfully found guilty of murdering his wife maggie and paul he was found guilty because he was guilty and as one of the witnesses said, Paul was a little detective. This case serves notice to anyone who aided or assisted Alex Murdock in committing any crime that justice will be sought. This was an incredible effort by SLED, our local and federal partners, and our partners at the Attorney General's office.

And I want to thank Attorney General Wilson and all of his prosecutors, paralegals, and all of his support personnel as well. They did a fantastic job. The agents and prosecutors who work this case have sacrificed countless moments from their own families to ensure that a person responsible for the murders of Maggie and Paul was fairly tried and brought to justice. The people who work this case do it because they are called to serve.

They do it to bring a voice to the voiceless. And they're dedicated public servants. And for that, I'm grateful. SLED agents have worked tirelessly for the past 21 months to ensure justice was served for Maggie and Paul. It is impossible for most people to understand the countless hours of hard work that went into this case. Time away from families, missed birthdays, missed holidays, and it is all done under constant scrutiny, constant pressure. I want these folks standing behind me and around me to know how incredibly proud I am of them as Chief of SLED. I believe firmly in this criminal justice system that we have.

And I believe in the rights of an accused to have a fair trial. That is why I have remained silent from beginning of this case until now. Again today, I'm here to provide a voice for Maggie and Paul. I'm here to recognize the heart-wrenching journey that that family and friends of Maggie and Paul have endured and I'm here to support and thank again this incredible team of agents forensic scientists support personnel that work at SLED and it worked on this case yesterday and today justice has been served an incredible statement and very rare for

mark kill the chief of sled as you heard him say he's only spoken out in his 12 years only twice he talked about how his team the people working under him, have been held to constant scrutiny and much maligned. Although we who come from a law enforcement background know they did nothing wrong. Yet they have taken it on the chin from the get-go. He talked about the victims of this crime, Maggie and Paul, balancing their right to be heard in a court of law and the right of the defendant for a fair trial, and says that is why he has remained silent up until this moment. He described the back-breaking hours that his team at SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, have devoted to this case.

Weekends, holidays, Christmas, Thanksgiving, family vacations, all sacrificed in the pursuit of justice for Paul and Maggie. So many of them we will never know their names but today Sled Chief Mark Keel honored them. Guys I'm being joined by a man we saw every single day in the courtroom with a very menacing look in the courtroom, but a very kind nature of the courtroom, security of the jurors, and overseeing the transport every day of now convicted killer Alex Murdoch, Colleton County Sheriff, former SWAT, former DEA, former Air Marshal, and former Assistant Federal Security Director for Savannah. Deputy Gregory, it's a real honor and privilege to have you on with us. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, ma'am. I'm glad to be here. Deputy Gregory, I saw you walking Murdoch out of the jail last night into the glare of the cameras for once, everyone finally seeing him in handcuffs and i understand that in the last minutes you took

murdoch to the county jail is that correct yes ma'am i took him out with the detention officers the there was a sign to his maintaining his custody inside the courtroom that would be um corporal wright and officer frazier she was part of the team that I was involved in and the transport of Alex from the sidewalk and from our officers with the Colleton County Detention Center as well as our detective's office. We maintained the security of him inside the courthouse and transport him back and forth into the courtroom. Yes, ma'am. Did he ever make conversation with you guys? Ma'am, he attempted to make conversation.

He's a very joking, casual-type person inside. I didn't have a lot of conversation with him personally. I kind of stayed away from that. I had no use to talk to him. Well, you know what? And you've got to be really careful, Deputy Gregory, because you represent the state. And anything you say would be taken and twisted and used somehow by the defense. I don't know how.

I can't imagine that. But somehow it's entirely possible. What was his demeanor with you and your team after the sentencing? After the sentencing, he would still maintain that attitude. I did talk to him on a personal level. I was there in his belief of God and a higher being and that other people he would have to answer to after our life here on on earth. We had that discussion briefly and that's the first time that I've actually had a conversation with the gentleman. You mean after sentencing? After

sentencing yes ma'am. Well Deputy Dan Gregory I'm very curious what are Alex Murdoch's beliefs about our Holy Father and life hereafter? I don't know what his beliefs are, ma'am. They're mine. That's my personal beliefs. However, as far as him being cunning, him being a threat, I've considered him a threat since the first day I met him. I've been doing this job for about 40 years, so I'm able to pick up on certain things, I guess. I did not trust him. I took it as a serious job in a serious situation and been here for six weeks or so doing that. Deputy, why did you detect him as a threat at the very beginning?

What about him made you feel that way? Ma'am, anytime somebody, you know, tries to talk to you and you can kind of, it's almost like talking to a good used car salesman or something of that nature, I guess, would be a way to look at it. So, Deputy Gregory, you're saying after the sentencing, he resumed his jocular or joking or good-natured behavior? He's good as far as he's a polite person, and the politeness oozes out of him. He's a normal person talking to him that didn't know him. Of course, they would think he's a wonderful person however i think the evidence and the south carolina law enforcement division which i have the ultimate respect for for the time and

effort that they put into this case i know the agents personally i've got a lot of friends in that organization as well as our sheriff's office the stuff that the defense went over in regards to making it try to look like our guys and girls did a bad job. When the first officer, Daniel Green, and Chad McDowell arrived on the scene and started maintaining that scene was remarkable. The resources we have, and I've seen the trip to Moselle. We're a remote county. We're 60 miles long, 30 miles wide, and run on a shoestring budget that hurts us when getting quality people here. Because this day and time, it's hard to find police officers, and we need some good, upstanding police officers to come into our ranks to help us.

We're down now, and we're hiring um but the folks that were out there doing this job i've got to have five minutes of fame of being stuck in the spotlight here and it's not deserving and because the people that are outside the spotlight the laura ruttmans the jason chapmans sheriff hills our sled agents the people people, David Owens, the list is really, really long, and they really should be sitting in these chairs telling you what they did, because what they did was remarkable to take a circumstantial case and build it so solid that people that don't have a law enforcement background, just common sense, good, good people, not a bad person, rendered

a verdict of guilty in this case. I'm so proud of them. Deputy Gregory, I'm hearing what you're saying and you're being humble as always. When I first saw you, I was told you were security for the defense because you would sit right behind the defendant in the first pew, like in a church or a synagogue, that first pew behind the well. And every time there would be a break or a moment when Murdoch could stand up and move around, you would immediately turn back with a very menacing look and look around that courtroom. I you saw look at the doors look at the windows what were you doing ma'am I have a background in counterterrorism

I was on a joint terrorism task force and FBI understand terrorism and in this arena we had countries other countries across the world watching this case at our little small courthouse in our little small town where we have limited numbers to offer protection. My sheriff made the decision for me to be in the position that I was in in that arena inside that courtroom along with my lieutenant, Reuben Carter, which is a dear and lifelong friend. We are actually the two resident deputies down on Eddyst stowe beach which which is kind of like mayberry and um and we take care of the beach on the far end of the county

that's my retirement job after a 27-year career with the federal government but we were brought up here to myself lieutenant carter and some especially to be inside courtroom security designated for the protection of everybody that was in that courtroom. Whether it was the defense attorneys, whether it was the judge, it didn't matter. We were not there as Mr. Murdoch's private defense team security program. Strategically, I did not wear my uniform the first days. That was a tactical advantage in case we had something go wrong in that courtroom um but i am well you did have something go wrong deputy

you had a bomb threat yes ma'am remember that i mean this case has seen everything from jurors getting covid to bomb threats to a dozen eggs being retrieved out of the jury deliberation room. You know what? You've seen it all with this case. Let me ask you something, Deputy Gregory. Have you ever seen a defendant try to escape? Ma'am, in my past career, I've had defendants try to escape. I'm actually a member and proud to say that I'm a member of Colleton County's tracking team as a collateral duty. And when they do escape, we catch them down here.

And that's our job. And we take precautions against something like that happen but like i said outside that courtroom outside the spotlight and outside the camera view on jason chapman our our captain and he's also in charge of the SWAT team as well as a dedicated group of detectives that works under his direct control and as well as our road deputies, and even Mr. Smoke, which is one of our reserve deputies that's out here on his own time to ensure the safety of this courthouse and the people that was attending this situation. We were ready for it.

We had a plan in place. Our plan worked flawlessly. And I work for a working sheriff. Buddy Hill has dedicated his life to this county. I kind of cheated him a little bit. Hold on just a moment, Deputy. Hold on just a moment. We had a plan.

Yes, ma'am. Hold on, Deputy. I'm glad you said he's a working sheriff because I've met a lot of sheriffs that were show horses you know the difference between a workhorse and a show horse i'm glad to hear you say that this sheriff here is a workhorse there's a big difference ma'am one of the our other local sheriffs in regards to that statement you just made with sheriff ravenel from orangeburg county came and shared the bench the law enforcement bench which was the barrier between the defendant and the public, where we were sitting on that bench behind Mr. Murdoch and his defense team.

Sheriff Ravanel and his chief deputies spent many days in this courtroom, and Dr. Kentsey, our chief deputy, Kentsey, was phenomenal. And I can't express enough gratitude on behalf of our office and, you know, my partners that the job that they did to see that justice was done. I was honored to be on the bench with Sheriff Reverend Allen. I'm honored to work for a sheriff that runs in the woods with you. I supported Buddy Hill during our last election, and we got an election around the corner, and we're going to win another one too, and it's going to be well-deserved.

He's a good man to work for. Before we go into a political advertisement, let me ask you, you were also protecting the jury, and you managed to keep the press, the media, and this place is jammed with media. Everywhere I look, there is is media there are spectators there's security going round and around the courthouse how did you what security did you have in place to protect the the jury ma'am that that was not my doings. I had a small part. I'm a deputy sheriff and I'm a little bit long in the tooth. And like I said before, I retired federally and this is more so my

retirement job. But the officers that were in charge of that was our captain, Jason Chapman, and his lieutenant, David Long, my lieutenant, Reuben Carter. Those gentlemen were outside on the outside of that courtroom making sure that the safety was being maintained, making sure that the media was taken care of, making sure that y'all had accessibility as well as protection at any given moment. What did it feel like last night after seeing the trial unfold? You were there throughout the trial to walk Murdoch out with a guilty verdict under his belt.

Ma'am, I prayed over this. I prayed for the jury to have the strength in a situation where sometimes it's hard to talk about putting a man in jail for the rest of his life, but the evidence was overwhelming and they did the right thing. It was a feeling of happiness, but also, as we said here today, we're still in a situation where we're here to serve the public and make sure that everybody goes home and gets back to wherever their home may be. And that's what we're continuing to do. And I'm sitting in this chair while my partners are still out there doing a job. You know, you really articulated how I would feel after every guilty verdict.

It was not jubilation. It was not jubilation. It was not celebration. It was more of a happy relief that one more bad guy was going to jail and one more innocent person was being protected. I'm also curious about something you said earlier. So after the sentencing, you were responsible for helping to get Alex Murdoch to the jailhouse. And he had no change in demeanor. He wasn't crying or complaining, just his normal self. Ma'am, I had a personal conversation with him. I'm not going to articulate that personal conversation.

But he shows no remorse, and he's going exactly where he needs to be at and out of our society. And that's the only comment I have on that. Well, Deputy Gregory, I want to thank you for being with us. To you and all of your sisters and brothers in law enforcement, thank you for making this trial go as smoothly as it did. There were a lot of disruptions, but you know what? It went seamlessly. People on the outside would never know what you and your team, the sheriff's team, managed to pull off. Danny Gregory, thank you for being with us. Thank you, ma'am. It was an honor to be here. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we are live outside the Colleton County Courthouse, and in just a few moments, the defense will be having their presser. Now, we thought that was happening earlier, and it turned out to be SLED, and it's about time that they are heard from. They have been maligned and attacked throughout this case for weeks and weeks and weeks, and leading up to the trial. Every time you turn on the TV, you would hear about what SLED had done wrong, and what the prosecution had done wrong, and how great the defense was well you know what i think what really clinched it was when the defendant alex murdoch took the stand do you remember the fervor that took over when murdoch stood up and said he was taking the

stand you could see he was headed toward the witness the witness seat. Guys again we are here at the courthouse waiting for the defense to approach the podium and we're all anxious to hear what they're going to say. We're also going to be speaking with Creighton Waters the lead prosecutor in this case and the elected attorney general who has been serving for 12 years as the chief prosecutor for the state, the top cop in South Carolina, who amazingly humbled himself. He came into this courthouse, went to the prosecution and said, I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'll make phone calls. I'll do interviews. I'll take, I'll cross exams. I'll do directs for you. I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'll make phone calls. I'll do interviews. I'll take, I'll cross exams. I'll do directs for you. I'll do research. I'll make posters. I'll work

for you during this trial. Can you believe that? Because most of the attorney generals I've seen are quite full of themselves. And believe me, I've seen a few. And they are political animals that just focus on being re-elected. I've got to tell you, I was really impressed with this guy. Number one, he stood by his wife while she battled breast cancer. And the two of them never let on what they've been through. But to come in and work for somebody that he's their boss, and you saw him actually get up and conduct a cross-exam and did a really good job of it, I might add. He was also the one that did that reenact that had a huge impact on the jury where he and Dr. Kinsey reenacted the defense theory of how Paul Murdoch...

Uh-oh, guys. I'm hearing in my ears. I'll tell you that last tidbit in a moment. Christine, tell me again. Who is joining us? Oh, I'm so happy to have him. With us right now is Mark Tinsley. Now, you all remember this name coming up almost like a specter hanging over Alex Murdoch. Remember this? That Murdoch came up to Tinsley and said, hey, what's this I hear about? You're going after me on that boat crash. And Tinsley's like, H-E-double-L, yes I am.

Mark Tinsley, thank you for being with us. First of all, I want to hear your reaction to the guilty verdict. It was relief. You know, it was relief more than anything. I believed it. I felt like when I was looking in the eyes of the jurors that there was a connection, an understanding, a recognition. You know, when you sit in the courtroom and you watch the jury's reaction and you try to see what they're paying attention to, this jury was always very attentive. And in the closing in particular, it looked like there wasn't much that Jim Griffin was saying they were buying. And I thought it would happen happen i felt it would happen so so there's a huge relief when it happened because i you know i'm i'm privy to a lot of information that didn't make it into the trial things the jury didn't hear the public

doesn't know about it and so okay like what? I just. Like what? What? What did you know that the jury didn't know? Just throw me a bone, man. Yeah. So at one point in the examination, I started talking about these requests to admit. And I knew that Maggie was upset about the lawsuit. This would have been in the fall of 20.

And I sent some requests to admit there was a lot of social media evidence about Paul's use of alcohol. Maggie had liked those posts. And so I extended away to Ellick to keep Maggie from being sued so that I used that evidence in the trial. And he denied that in December of 20. And there's no rational reason to deny that, to force your wife to be sued. The person who, according to his own testimony, was the sole owner of their single biggest asset, Moselle. You just, you exposed her, you exposed your assets, and there's no reason you would do that unless maybe he didn't think I would sue her or he knew she wasn't going to be there. Well, I mean, you had to, Chensley, because you

had a client to represent. You had to do everything you could do for your client. Now, let me understand something. You offered Murdoch the chance to do what in order to keep Maggie from being sued? Well, so it's always been about, you know, the whole case has been an evolution. It's changed at different times based on, you know, what Greg Parker's doing or based on what the media is doing. And so I put pressure where I could put pressure on Ellick. But at that point in time, I've decided that I'm going to take the case. This is the fall of 20, late fall, so November of 20, and I've decided, I know I've got cancer, I've decided I'm going to move the case to Beaufort County because Parkers has a change of venue motion. And so I have a lot of evidence.

There are a number of issues that you would say, okay, here's a reason to sue Maggie to get this evidence in. And I was trying to use it as, again, leverage pressure on Alec to either, one, drive him to do the right thing, or here's a way to save Maggie, to keep her from being a specter in this circus. And I thought that if he loved her, if he wanted to protect her, if he cared about her, that he would do this. And it didn't make any difference to me. The liability was the liability. And from where I sat, he had plenty of money. I didn't know he'd been stealing for years and years and converting everything to cash.

And so I extended this way. No, he didn't do it. He turned it down. And, you know, the thing that speaks the most. You said that Maggie had likes and things on social media. What had she liked? Well, you know, there were videos of Paul in a boat with alcohol. There were photos of Paul consuming alcohol. So those sorts of things.

And, you know, this case was a negligent entrustment case. So that was relevant. And if I'm just suing Ellick, well, maybe the fact that his wife had liked these things on social media wouldn't be relevant and wouldn't come in. So I asked Ellick to admit that everything that Maggie knew was imputed to him for purposes of liability. And it's a way to protect Maggie. It got the evidence in as far as I was concerned. Can I just boil that down very quickly, Mark? He is saying that Maggie had gone on social media and liked some pictures and videos of Paul out in the boat and other places, probably because she was liking a post of his or somebody else's post

that had her son in it. But in those pictures and videos, he was drinking and possibly on the boat or near a car. And by liking them, it could be argued that she condoned drinking and driving. And Murdoch had a chance to keep that evidence out and decided not to do it. You know, another thing, Mark Tinsley, is that I had more than one friend of Maggie's come up and tell me that Maggie was very upset just before the murders that Murdoch was pressuring her to sign her name on a property that was solely in her name so Murdoch could get more money for the bank basically put up one of her sole assets as collateral for Murdoch to get more money and she didn't want to do it and he would not let it go i mean she had to be wondering mark where's all the money yeah um it's not clear to me how much maggie knew you know the the bank

was very complicit in helping ellicott i mean if the around the time of the murders he's hundreds of thousands in overdraft and the bank's covering all of them. They're even covering some of the overdraft fees or waiving the fees. And so I don't know how much Maggie knew about that. I have seen some indications that there were problems scheduling appraisals for the property to get that second mortgage, but the bank went ahead and gave it to Alex so they could cover up the overdraft, cover up the Ferris fees this is the chris wilson money tinsley come on give me a break maggie was not an idiot she was a smart woman and if my husband came to me and said hi honey can you sign this because i want to leverage our house to get a 600 000 loan from the bank i'm like leverage our leverage our home? No way. That's not going to

happen. Why do you need whatever, how many hundred thousands of dollars anyway? You're working every day, right? She had to have a question. I mean, this jury, there were so many things they never knew. They never knew about his one affair that we heard about one of reported more than one uh she that never came in to the jury maggie knew about it but the jury never knew about it i think there was a lot more this jury never knew about hey mark tinsley um could you tell us remember you're not on the stand this is not high tea at windsor Castle, Tinsley. Tell us about when Murlock came up to you and approached you about the boat lawsuit. Well, he said it didn't happen, right?

You know, I was watching. I watched one of the playbacks. And what I believe Ellick leaned over to Jim and said when I said that was he didn't say that. Not denying that it didn't happen. You know, and that was Ehrlich. That was classic Ehrlich. You hear in some of the recorded conversations, I appreciate it. I would appreciate it. It's just a way that he would manipulate people. He would get in your face. He would ask you for a favor. He would appreciate it. And that was a form of intimidation. It didn't work. You know, this case took on its own momentum, its own life. It would be like trying to stop the rain at times. But as you said, I mean, I had clients to represent and I was going to do it. And

he knew I was going to do it. That's why. I'm asking you, what did he say? He said, hey, Bo, what's this I've been hearing about what you've been saying? And what he was talking about was the fact that I was saying he was going to have to pay personally from his own pocket to settle the case. And I said, Ellick, it's a bad case. If you don't think I can burn your house down, you're wrong. And you need to get the case settled. And that was it. And we've never spoken since. Why did he call you Bo? He called everybody Bo. Hey, Bo. That's just what he would say.

Bo. Okay. And did he keep a smile on his face when he said i when you said i will burn your house down if you don't take care of this it's sort of a smiling it's sort of a sneer he's he's he's very close he's a big guy uh he's very close within six inches it's it's very close it's a crowded room uh you know the irony i think i think I think Judge Newman was not that far away when it happened. But, yeah, no, there was no smiling on either side. Hey, Tinsley, is Judge Newman always like this? I suspect that he is.

He's very calm. He's almost paternal. And when he got Murdoch to sentence him, he didn't yell at him or preach at him. He just spoke very calmly, but his words were very heavy. Oh, his words. Oh yeah. You know, I've said a number of times today and I went back and told Judge Newman, I thought it was the most compelling and articulate thing I've ever heard another person say. Not something they're reading from, not a speech that's been written. And I'm sure he'd given some thought to it,

but he is the best of the best. His temperament is the epitome of what you want in a good judge. He's smart. I think he made all the right rulings. there were times when he didn't let things in. Even when I was testifying, he let a lot in. But I think that he did a good job. He tried a clean case. And I liked the way he confronted Ellick. It was, you know, there were so many people in the courtroom, myself included, who would like to have said those things to Ellick. I knew Paul Murdoch. I knew Maggie. I knew Paul. There's pictures that float around on the Internet. Paul in my boat, and I caught a fish when he's about eight years old. And I would like to have been able to say the things that Judge Newman said to Ellick in that moment.

And so I felt like it was, for the people who knew this family, for the people who knew Ellick, that moment, that time that Judge Newman took was special. It was emotional for me. But I appreciated his words very much. Mark Tinsley, a very well-known civil attorney throughout South Carolina and beyond. Did you hear the judge bring up Kobe Bryant at the end of sentencing? Apparently, somebody in the courtroom got a picture or took a picture of a picture. Now, I'm surmising from what the judge said that it was a picture of the victims at the murder scene because he tied it into Kobe Bryant. And he reminded everybody of the recent multi-million, yeah, multi-million dollar lawsuit against everybody who had anything to do with the picture of Kobe and his daughter's remains, God rest their soul, when they died.

And Kobe's wife got all over them and got that multi-million dollar judgment because of the release of those photos. The illegal and inappropriate release of those photos that caused nothing but grief for her and her family. What was the judge talking about? What happened? Do we know yet? No, it sounded like it was an autopsy photo, though, that someone in the courtroom, and you know, there are not that many people in the courtroom who have phones, first of all. Only lawyers and maybe some court staff that had phones. But I'll tell you, the speed with which SLED and Colleton County Sheriff's Department identified the person who called in the bomb threat,

I have no doubt that they will pretty quickly ferret out the person who took that photo as well. I saw the Murdoch family coming in with drinks and candy and they were pretty open about it and at one juncture I saw one of the women not Murdock's sister and not the girlfriend of Buster because I know those two by sight but it was another woman with the Murdoch family that had an Apple watch I finally got rid of my watch he came in with my Fitbit because every day when you'd unless you wanted to lie about it they would ask me do you have your cell phone do you have an iWatch and the last thing you want to do

is get caught lying to a sheriff or a bailiff. So most people didn't take them in, but I guess somebody got them in. Tinsley? Yeah, somebody did. That's why I said there weren't that many people that were allowed to have phones. Lawyers were allowed to have phones. People participating in the trial, I think, had phones. And then some of the, I guess, court staff. But, you know, the people that work in this courthouse, the people that work in this county and putting this case on, they've shown everyone so much respect.

They've done such a good job. Becky Hill, the clerk of court here, has done a phenomenal job. But they'll figure out who did it. I mean, I have no doubt about that. Oh, yeah. And you think it was actually an autopsy photo? That's what I thought I heard the judge say was the autopsy photo. I don't know. I haven't seen it. Okay. Yeah. Tinsley, I just want to thank you for being with us. We watched you on the stand. That's some grace under pressure. And I'm really proud of another lawyer that does

the right thing, you know, with the butt of so many jokes and many of us deserve it. But when you were pressured, you said, no, I'm representing my clients and to hell with you. That took some guts, Disney. Thank you for being with us. Well, I appreciate that. I really do. Guys, I'm hearing in my ear that we are now being joined by one of the stars if I can use that word this trial and this is dr. Kinsey he was on the stand for a long time during the trial and he underwent a scorching cross-examination and when I say scorching I don't mean that he was incinerated.

I mean he endured a scorching cross-examination. We're trying to get him hooked up right now, and we're waiting for Creighton Waters to come out of the courthouse, as well as Alan Wilson, the South Carolina Attorney General, to join us. You were just hearing mark tinsley attorney representing the family of teen girl mallory beach who lost her life while being a guest on a murdoch boat that son paul murdoch was driving as i say high as a kite and drunk as a skunk she went flying off that boat when he crashed into easily visible cement pilings. Dr. Michelle Dupree with me, you and I went out on the water to the water and drove very carefully at about four miles an hour through those cement pilings because they're on either side of the river, and then you go under a bridge.

So your path is blocked. You've got the water, cement pilings, cement pilings, and a bridge over it. And he went flying through there at speeds, I've been told, were between 40 and 60 mph on a speedboat and crashed into those pilings. Very treacherous at night, Nancy. Very treacherous at night. And when Mallory's body was found three days later, her whole body was bloated from being underwater. What was the actual cause of Mallory's death? That's the case that Tinsley was repping. Her family. Was it by drowning or did she break her vertebra when she flew off of the boat? It was actually drowning and there was also blunt force trauma when she hit her head.

You know, after you do so much work with the medical examiner's office and you finally come up with a cause of death and you go through the very difficult process, it must be very deflating to find out that there's Alex Murdoch trying to beg, borrow and steal away the case and try to get it to settle for less than it's worth. Absolutely, Nancy. The victims always deserve justice and there's always somebody, I guess, trying to prevent that or trying to mitigate that. And so it's very rewarding, especially in this case, where they actually do get justice. It doesn't bring them back, but at least they get something.

Guys, we are here camped outside the courthouse. I see movement at the podium. We are expecting the defense to come out at any moment. Joining me is high-profile defense lawyer Dale Carson. Dale, again, what do you expect the defense to say? They're about to take the podium. What? He's innocent. He was wrongly convicted. SLED did a bad job.

The judge is bad. The prosecutors are bad. What can they say? We vow to appeal? We're going to appeal. We respect the court and the jury's decision. They're going to light shoe all of that because they don't want to irritate someone who might be a witness later or provide information about what happened inside the jury panel. All of those things. So you don't want to step on too many toes

because that could impact your ability to successfully bring an appeal. But of course, as you know, the appellate courts can't see the jurors. So this trial judge is going to be the king of what the appellate courts see. And he's the one who will be relied on to have effectively and and the presumption is that he did effectively manage the trial and as you've said he did joining us right now is a renowned deputy chief dr kenneth kinsey former south carolina law enforcement division special agent dr kinsey it is a real pleasure to get to talk to you after watching you for so many hours on the stand. What was that like, Kinsey? It is my pleasure, Ms. Nancy.

It was just my part. These men and women have carried this football for a year and a half, sled agents and AG's office, and it was just time for me to do my part. Guys, in the last hours, we have heard the judge hand down a sentence of two consecutive life sentences. That's life behind bars with no parole. Dr. Kinsey, what kept you going during this trial? Because you underwent a pretty scathing cross-examination and survived, and many would argue triumphed. What kept you going during all of this? Well, I thank you for that. I did just survive.

These attorneys are top shelf on both sides, and I might not be that lucky next time, but I really, really felt the love and support of my team and my family and those jurors. Those jurors, Nancy, I could feel the support from them and I could see that they understood as I related that evidence to them. And I felt really, really comfortable dr kenneth kinsey joining us christine could you pull up that moment where kinsey and the elected south carolina attorney general did a reenact of the defense theory on how paul's shooting went down i mean that was a moment i will never forget had you guys practiced that or was it a spur of the moment thing you did up on the stand? I asked Attorney General Wilson. He wanted me to point the gun at him and he's a little bit taller

and I asked him to point it at me. So we checked everything and I kept that that weapon in my sight the entire time just to be sure because of safety reasons. But I thought that would get the point across, and it would hammer in my opinion that I just don't believe that angle was possible. And although I've never worked with her before, I strongly agreed with the pathologist's opinion. You know, we've gotten a lot of questions on social media, Dr. Kenneth Kinsey. Why was it so important that you disprove the defense theory of the bullet path trajectory? Why was that so important to show that their theory was outlandish? Nancy, I agree with you, but a lot of times, you know, when you bring in an expert witness, they're not coming in to discover any evidence that wasn't discovered by the original crime scene investigation.

But it kind of evens up the sides. I think they had four experts on the defense side. Dr. Reimer was not a paid expert. She was just doing her job. And sometimes you've got to just even it out to make it fair. And it's a battle of the experts. No, no, no. I'm not asking you about the battle of the experts.

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking, Paul was killed. We know he was killed. We know Maggie was killed. But why was it so important to the state that you disprove the defense theory on the bullet trajectory why was that important i mean paul was murdered because of their because of their that's what i'm asking their height yeah because nancy because of their height requirement when they locked it into five foot two or five foot four number one that there's so

many variables that weren't considered there and number two it is so many variables you just don't know and it was very important to disprove that because that was uh you know i know it was said it was suggested by the defense but that isn't the way i took it i took it as an absolute so it was important to disprove that so by disproving their theory on the bullet trajectory it would help attack the defense theory in whole uh i know you were in the courtroom throughout the trial but did you see the defense expert that came on the stand and they had this very powerful presentation with two green murder assailants and the trajectory pass in green going to the bodies? Do you remember that? I do remember it, Nancy, and I was almost tempted to talk about the two youths

like in my cousin Vinnie, but I tried to keep it right and honor the victims but I thought that was absolutely epic failure on their behalf. Well I gotta tell you something that was pretty slick to reenact they did with that video but it does not hold candle to you and Alan Wilson the Attorney General when you acted it out upon the stand because when you did that it it showed in real life how unrealistic that the theory was and I think it really hit home to the jury because I was watching the jury and not one of them had their eyes off you. They were all looking at what you were doing. And then they looked over at Alex Murdoch. Like,

why did you even tell us all that? Because it doesn't make any sense. So Dr. Kinsey, you've got so many titles. What are you exactly? Nancy, I work for an elected sheriff, and I have for 12 years. And I'm the sheriff when the sheriff's not around. I'm the number two man. But I wear many hats. I still teach at Claflin University as an adjunct professor. I provide training in firearms and that kind of thing on my own. And I'm a father and I'm an outdoorsman and I just try to wear many hats. Now, how did you find yourself out at the crime scene?

When did you go to the scene of the double murders? I went around the first week of December or it was either the last week of November, somewhere around there. I thought it was very, very important to go and take a look and get my own measurements. And what, if anything, did you learn? And please, break it down for us. You're not on the stand.

Explain to us, when you walked into that kennel and you saw where they lost their lives, I gotta tell you, every time I went to a homicide scene, it just had a feeling to it. There was no levity. Nobody would talk. There was certainly no joking because you knew you were standing where two people had lost their lives. What was it like when you first walked into that kennel?

Well, I did feel a certain level of reverence there, and you definitely are serious. It's not a joking matter, but sometimes law enforcement and investigators, as you know, you've been doing this a long time, Nancy. As you know, sometimes that's the way we deal with it, but it was none of that. It's just amazing how quiet and still it feels. You know I described the lead prosecutor, Creighton Waters, as looking gaunt and pale one morning when I saw him. Oh, it was really early one morning before trial. And I've later learned he lost 15 pounds during this trial. I was the same way during trials.

I couldn't eat. I had too much to do in the lunch break and at night when I would get home to prep for the next day. And I didn't even notice. What toll, if any, has this trial taken on you and your family? Well, I'm going to be honest. I'm so fortunate to have a supporting family. And, Nancy, this isn't something I just started doing. And this isn't something I just started doing this way. I've been doing it since the late 90s this way. It's worked for me. And there's a lot of sacrifices that that family, your family has to make. And this has been validation, as I

mentioned earlier. This has really been validation for me because your friends and family don't understand what investigators and prosecutors do. And when you're out those late nights, they don't understand it. You miss Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays. And now they get a real understanding of what we do. And as far as Pail and Gaunt is concerned, I'm so fortunate to've been included in those powwows and those evidence meetings on Sunday evenings. And that team, that team, I mean, they're eating out of soup cans and power bars, including Mr. Wilson. I've just got so much respect for them. Yeah, you know what? I would see them in our hotel when they would be leaving for court, and they would be all business.

They wouldn't even stop for a free sausage biscuit or a cup of coffee. They would be straight out the door to get to the courthouse, and I mean early, early hours, hours before court would start to get everything arranged and you know when you go into law enforcement it's very different from what people think it's very grueling and if you're dedicated it takes over your life and the people around you have to understand that or everybody suffers you're not there for holidays you can't stay for supper you can't come home you miss the the concert or the or the church choir or the special scout program because you're working you really gave it your all dr. Kinsey And I want to thank you because in that one moment when you did that reenact,

I think it changed a lot of people's hearts and minds. You did that. You're giving everybody else the credit. But you did that, Kinsey. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you, Ms. Nancy. It's been my pleasure. Likewise, Ms. Nancy. It's been my pleasure. Likewise, sir.

Guys, I am about 30 feet away from the podium. I'm hearing Christine in my ear. Christine, could you tell me again what you're saying? Ah, she's saying five minutes until the defense takes the podium. Guys, I talk to Christine all the time. She's joining me from new york and a tiny little darkened room with people running around like mad trying to figure out what's going on at the courthouse christine even i don't know what's going on out here but i'm glad you can tell me because if you could be here there are people and dogs and food trucks. But most people are standing around with a very pensive look on their faces.

There's not a lot of levity and, you know, very often, and I think people are actually surprised about this. Let me know when I get Eric Bland because I've got a question for him. You know, Joe Scott Morgan, okay, Joe Scott Morgan, after a long trial, I think you can relate to this, people say, oh, you're going to go celebrate tonight? And, you know, just so they wouldn't ask any more questions, they go, oh yeah, you know what, I couldn't wait to get to my beat-up Honda and go home. It was more a feeling of relief not jubilation or celebration nothing like that at all I mean it it goes with you it takes a little piece of your heart every trial especially in a case like this one two people are just gunned down senselessly and lose the rest of their lives and leave awake a

trail of pain behind them so i don't think anybody's gonna be out celebrating and toasting champagne tonight no and as a matter of fact uh mr waters really really put it really put it into perspective last night at his presser nancy says i want to leave you with this go Go home, hug your family, hug your kids, tell them that you love them. And, you know, these trials, they leave you bone weary. And a lot of people have talked about how you have to sacrifice. You have to sacrifice these cases. I think about the investigators, the forensics people, and they've been all hands on deck on this. And can you imagine staying at that heightened state of alert where everybody's going to

be questioning everything you do? You want to make sure that every box is ticked along the way. And it's a hypersensitivity. And, you know, the human body is not meant to stay at that level for this long, long period of time. You know, everybody that's involved in this probably needs about a three-week vacation they need to shut everything out but you know crimes don't stop you know death doesn't stop happening you still have to conduct these investigations and that's why it's such a grind that's why so many people get sick you know and are are you

know are less than they once were many times and it it really hollows you out so if you know, and are, you know, are less than they once were many times. And it really hollows you out. So if you know somebody that's involved in the investigation, somebody that really puts their shoulder to the stone, have them on the back. Tell them thank you because it's a hard, hard life, and most people don't understand what goes into it. Guys, I want you to hear our Cut 18. This is really important, what the judge said. We haven't played it for you yet.

But having been a law enforcement and victims' rights advocate my whole legal career, this really hit home about how these murders and this trial have been an assault, not just Maggie and Paul, but on our justice system. But there are other victims whose cases deserve to be heard. And this case has jumped some of those other cases, perhaps jumped it because of this case resulting in an assault on the integrity of the judicial system in our state. Even during this trial, the law enforcement had been maligned for the past five or six weeks weeks by one who had access to the wheels of justice to be able to deflect the investigation.

There you hear the judge talking about an assault on the justice system. Guys, I want to go to a lawyer that is intimately familiar with this case, who was represented from the get-go, the Satterfield family. We've heard a lot about Gloria Satterfield helped raise Buster and Paul Murdoch was the housekeeper for the Murdoch family from Maggie. And Miss Satterfield lost her life at the foot of the steps right there at Moselle. A lawsuit ensued and that was one of the triggering points of all this, when Alex Murdoch stole the money, millions of dollars that were supposed to go to the Satterfield family. I remember one of the Satterfield children is an adult male who is clearly developmentally

and socially challenged. He just can't go off and get a job like you and I can go look for a job or take care of himself the way we can. Living in a mobile home that was under foreclosure and Murdoch stole his money. Eric Bland, thank you for being with us. Okay, what do you have to say now that the verdict is finally in? It happened, Bland. It happened. They found him guilty. Yes, you and I were a stereo sound daily about we thought the prosecution was doing a good job

when most other people were commenting about what a great job the defense was doing and criticizing the prosecution. Nancy, Maya Angelou said when somebody shows you who they are, believe it. Judge Newman is somebody that needs to be believed. You see what you get. I argued against Alex getting bond in October of 2021 on Gloria Satterfield's case. And Judge Newman denied him bond on a financial crimes case. Alex Murdoch showed us who he was last week, a liar and a con artist. And I see brightness happening. You know, it's a little bit like Shawshank Redemption.

You go through the sewage pipe and you come out clean on the other side. This judge is a lawyer at heart. And I think his sentence showed that he has been mortally wounded by Alex Murdoch's behavior of lying and cheating on his clients and denigrating and staining our legal profession. And that's why he offered him a lifeline today to show some contrition. And Alex thumbed his nose in this judge's face. And the judge's response was a very medieval kind of colloquy ending with, I am now going to schedule every one of your financial crime cases because I'm the judge on all 99 of them and Maggie and Paul got justice over the last six weeks and I intend to get justice for every single other victim and it came out loud and clear. You know it's interesting he did not have to hurt his chances on appeal

Bland if he apologized for all the pain he caused if he had confessed up and again he did not have to say i did it he couldn't he didn't have to do that you've had people sorry you've sentenced them yeah were you were you've sentenced them nancy you've had defendants who don't have to admit their guilt at the allocution stage but they showition. They show contrition for lying to their family or lying to law enforcement. He didn't even apologize to his living son, Buster, for lying to him and making his life miserable. The guy is a narcissist and a psychopath. And I said 24 months ago, he's a monster, a modern-day monster. And doggone it if this judge didn't call him a monster today.

I mean, he could have stood up and without saying for an appellate court, of course, they're not supposed to look at the allocution as evidence, but they all know what happened. They're watching TV. They know. They see the record, and it is part of the record. If he had said said I am sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry Buster I'm sorry judge for all the pain I've caused my family for the lying

and the cheating for everything I did wrong and sitting here in court has made me realize the way I was living was wrong and how many people I hurt. And I wish I could make it up to them. No, we didn't hear that. We heard another lie. What was he thinking? And why did they let him do that? I once had a federal judge say to one of my clients who had his probation revoked, if I could give you more than the original six-month sentence, I would.

I almost heard that from Judge Newman today. If I could give you more than life without parole, I would. But still, Newman remained even-killed and well-tempered. It was very painful to hear him describe how not only had the murders been an assault on our justice system, an assault on SLED, the way that law enforcement was maligned unrightfully, that the jurors had sacrificed, everybody had sacrificed because of Murdoch. But when he talked about the law and the courthouse and how he had to take down the portrait of an honorable judge so his grandson could be tried in that very courtroom for double murder. Man, he really brought it all home,

didn't he, Bland? He did. And he kind of capsulated it for all of us. You know, sometimes judges are very stoic, but I think this was one of the most heartfelt sentencing I've heard in a long time. You know, he just, he doesn't understand this monster in front of him. There was a chance that he could have shown any type of acceptance of responsibility for utilizing the justice system in a way that perverted it. But he didn't. It's a continuation of this defense that almost was tone deaf from the start, to attacking the police unmercifully, to attacking the prosecution and without acknowledging what kind of father, what kind of husband would lie about being with your son and your wife in their very last minutes. It was stunning. And Harpootlian and Griffin have so much experience, a wealth of experience.

And, you know, the jury didn't buy it. Listen, they not only found him guilty, they found him incredibly guilty. It was one of the fastest resolutions of deliberations I've ever seen. They must have taken a vote, Nance, and everybody raised their hands and then everybody looked around and said, okay we just voted 12 guilty, what do we do now? So Eric Bland we see the podium there and we're waiting for the defense team to take the mic what can they possibly say Bland well I think they're gonna say that they gave him his

full cup of justice opportunity that you know they disagree with the verdict they're gonna say all the things that everybody said to Nancy Grace when she won her trials we disagree with the verdict we They're going to say all the things that everybody said to Nancy Grace when she won her trials. We disagree with the verdict. We think there was not enough evidence put forth by the government to show that there was a case free from reasonable doubt. And they're going to say we intend to appeal. We think this judge made critical legal errors. All the things. But I debated Alan Dershowitz last night, Nancy, for 50 minutes. And one thing he said resonated with me. When a defendant takes the stand, their cases are only reversed on appeal less than 1% of the time. So I think an appellate court is going to

disregard all the 404B arguments and say, Alex, a jury could have inferred your guilt based on your lies. Guys, we see them testing the mics, and that's exactly what's going to happen. Yeah, you know what? Eric Bland, your right stats show that you're much less likely to get a reversal on appeal if you take the stand. I mean, look at Simpson, that POC, technical legal term. He got acquitted because somehow Cochran kept him off the stand and Dershowitz. No, Dershowitz.

Now, F. Lee Bailey wanted him to take the stand. Dershowitz said last night that the difference between Alex and O.J. is that O.J. listened to me. He said I had two weeks worth of discussions with him and he listened to his lawyers. But Alex wasn't going to listen to jim griffin and dick harpootley hey guys as we wait i want you to hear something that the judge said in court it's our cut 13 and he looked murdoch in the eye and he said people that have committed less crimes than you have gotten the death penalty. Listen. Based on the statutory aggravating circumstances of two or more people being murdered by the defendant by one act

or pursuant to one scheme or course of conduct, I don't question at all the decision of the state not to pursue a death penalty. But as I sit here in this courtroom and look around the many portraits of judges and other court officials and reflect on the fact that over the past century, your family, including you, have been prosecuting people here in this courtroom, and many have received the death penalty, probably for lesser conduct. Remind me of the expression you gave on the witness stand. Was it tangled? What tangled web we weave?

What did you mean by that? It meant when I lied, I continued to lie. And the question is, when will it end? When will it end? And it's ended already for the jury because they've concluded that you continue to lie and lied throughout your testimony. And truer words were never spoken what a tangled web we weaved when first we practiced to deceive and of all people alex murdoch said that uh guys speaking of alex

murdoch his defense team is just about to come out and take a podium where there's got to be 20 microphones on it, all wedged in in front of each other and around each other. And I think they're going to say exactly what Eric Bland just told us. We've heard it many, many times before. We vowed to appeal. His constitutional rights were infringed. The state did this. There wasn't enough evidence. The jury,

the blah, the blah. The next thing I know, Eric Bland, they're going to blame the chicken and the guinea. The only thing they didn't bring in was the dog Bubba. Listen, I battled a nationally known defense attorney who said as far as short as a week ago that there was more evidence to convict Bubba of murder than there was of Alex. Look, today he is not only a serial pencilinger, like I called him for the last year and a half, he's now a serial murderer. He killed two people. He did it in cold blood. And I loved when Judge Newman said, you're going to have to spend your life with your

soul. And then you're going to have to go to bed every night with Maggie and Paul, but not in the way that you think, in a different way for what you did to them. And you're going to have to live with that. I thought that was just brilliant. You know, Eric Bland, we have been flooded with questions about what did Murdoch really do with 50 grand a week? Nobody believes he used a full 50 grand on opioid pills a week. I've heard about

private planes. I've heard about very expensive and lavish tastes. What were they doing with all that money Bland? Don't hold back. I think he's a land baron. A lot of the lawyers in the PMPD law firm owned thousands and thousands of acres in the books in these four county areas. He didn't have a Ferrari. He didn't have an airplane. Maybe he was getting skimmed a little bit on his drug money. Maybe there's four or five different people who take a taste of every time Cousin Eddie goes and buys him his pills. I tend to think there may have been some kind of blackmailing involved. But we'll know. The FBI's not done. You know, the FBI's a backstop for all the state charges.

And I've got to believe they're using their confidential informants, and they're going to have answers for us soon. Well, they had a pretty lavish lifestyle. And, no, he did not drive a Ferrari. But the way that they lived was pretty high on the hog. I still don't know where all that money went. And yes, we heard a lot about land deals that had gone bad. But still, that should be easily traceable.

Explain to those just hearing it, what involvement does the FBI have now? Well, I think they are still involved because they just tried Russell Lafitte on bank fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy charges two months ago. And that was his accomplice to get money from the bank and steal money from a lot of the victims' conservatorship accounts that existed at the bank. I think that they're going to wait for the state to finish their charges, and then we have income tax charges that he's going to get nailed for, bank fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy charges, drug. There are drug charges that are pending against others. The reason, Nancy, that the feds haven't charged him yet

is because Harpootlian would have marched him down to federal court and pled him immediately straight up to the charges so he could do his time in a cushy federal prison like Seymour Johnson Air Force Base. But now he goes to the big house where you send a lot of people, the rapists, the murderers, the violent crime criminals, and he's gone to a place, Nance, where the fellow prisoners, they don't look too kindly at guys that kill kids. Let me ask you, what facility do you think will ultimately be his home?

Kirkwood in Columbia or Bishopville in Bishopville, South Carolina, maximum security prison. I think he's going to look at a lot of time of solitary confinement. And maybe over the years he becomes a jailhouse lawyer. But, look, we'll never see him again. We'll move on. It's going to take us a while to get this stink out of our body. But there will come a time where the Myrdal name isn't there anymore. I feel like I played a role, my partner

Ronnie Richter played a role in taking down this dynasty. And look, here's the thing from a civil lawyer standpoint, which is predominantly my practice. In 2005, Hampton County was voted by the American Bar Association as the third worst judicial hellhole in the country, behind Cook County, Illinois and Harris, Texas. So you know where we are nance yeah i know what they say but this case seems to be turning that around at least a little bit you know what i noticed bland uh i know you've seen the wizard of oz and do you remember when first of all the first witch got hit by a house. So you could see her feet sticking out. And then in the end, where the wicked witch was killed. Yesterday, when the verdict came down, people all around the courthouse were going, I can't believe it.

They could not believe that Alex Murdoch, even though they thought he was guilty, had actually been convicted. They couldn't take it in. Didn't you see him shrinking? Didn't you see him like, and the only thing that was going to be left was his clothes on the floor? I thought the same thing, Nancy. I saw when they, Gildy and how he looked and everything, and he didn't look around. He just, no tears. There weren't those crocodile tears.

I just felt like he poofed. He's done. This mystiqueofed. He's done. This mystique is over. He's human. We've gotten now behind the curtain and seen Alex for who he is. Do you believe that Buster Murdoch will ultimately go back to law school? Or do you think he's going to turn his back on the whole kitten caboodle? I don't know. I don't think he's going to be able to get back in. They put some very tight conditions on him getting back in last year and I was told it was his

last opportunity to avail himself of it and he doesn't. Look, he's a victim here regardless of what you think him staying behind his father and I understand it, but this kid lost a mother, a brother, and now a father. His family name is tarnished forever. And I've made somewhat light of it by saying, look, dye your hair black, change your name to Fred Reynolds, and move to Montana. He may have to actually do something like that, Nancy. I don't think anybody faulted him for believing his father. In fact, I can't even think of one adult victim that ever thought their parent was the killer in the face of overwhelming evidence. And I would not expect Buster Murdoch to believe any of it, no matter how strong the evidence.

I don't think Buster will ever believe his father is guilty, Bland. I wouldn't expect him to. Would you? No. I think, though, he had to ask himself some hard questions. Look, we go home and we feel the silence of the sleep and the silence of our bedroom. I think what he heard at this trial when he learned, if he learned it the first time last Thursday, that his father has lied to him for two and a half, almost two years about the death of his mother and brother and he learned

about the depth of his financial theft of clients and friends and the theft of the satterfield money i just feel like this poor kid could be lost i mean looking for his identity you know it's just sad he's going to need some help and i hope his family is going to be there. I sense they will be and his friends. And, you know, maybe he catches his footing. Look, we don't give up on people in America. That's the beauty of us. We're second, third, fourth chance people. And I love our country for it. And maybe the best thing for him is to make a fresh break, get a fresh start. Looks like he's an intelligent young man and see if he can make a go of it a fresh start looks like he's an intelligent young man and see if he can make a go of it he's young he's got his whole life ahead of him but it's going to be a lonely life guys many people have asked how did the jury come up with a

decision in three hours after weeks of testimony i want you to take a listen to our cut nine this juror who i watched throughout the trial who kept a poker face i might add let's hear what he had to say with our friends at gma he started deliberating going through the evidence everybody was pretty much talking and about 45 minutes later we after all our deliberating we figured it out so it took basically 45 minutes for you guys to come to a decision probably about 45 maybe an hour if you really look at everything it's it's it's all plain and clear. Was anyone surprised? Eric Bland, were you surprised in the three-hour turnaround? Shocked.

Shocked because I really thought that some juror would have questions based on, I've never heard anybody say Alex is innocent, not in these six weeks. But I've heard a lot of people say he did it. But I think that there's enough reasonable doubt to make people pause. But you know what we forget all the time? You know, I think I'm somewhat smart. I'm not as smart as you are. You have much more experience than me and we can see it. But there's 24 years on that jury and 24 eyes and they say, see things and hear things and process things a lot faster than I can and they got in there and they use their god-given common sense and said it doesn't make sense any other way Eric Bland attorney representing the

Satterfield family thank you you've been in the courtroom from the very very beginning and been part of this story this case since a way back when when Gloria Satterfield fell to her death. That's how long you've been about three inches up Alex Murdoch's tailpipe. I'm one of the OG lawyers in this case, Nance. Thanks for being with us, man. I'll see you soon. Guys, we are seeing movement. We see, my dear, we see what I think is one of the female members of the team coming back and forth and back and forth to the mic I guess they're getting together what in the world they're going to say we're waiting for the defense to come out and know that about four or five blocks away

from here is Alex Murdoch now in the Colleton County Jail awaiting transport to the prison where he will become a number on a list an EF number a number assigned to him as a resident of a CI Correctional. I want you to hear again when he, our cut 11, when he had a chance to apologize, not even necessarily admit guilt, but had a chance to turn to his son and turn to the camera and turn to the judge and say I'm sorry for all the pain I've caused. I want you to hear instead what he said. The defendant would like to address the court then. Mr. Murdoch.

Good morning, Your Honor. I'm innocent. I would never hurt my wife Maggie, and I would never hurt my son Pawpaw. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. That's what he had to say. He's still with the Pawpaw thank you thank you that's what he had to say he's still with the pawpaw with me an all-star panel to make sense of what we are hearing we have heard from mark tinsley who represented the mallory beach family eric bland representing the satterfield family

deputy danny gregory who guarded the courtroom and escorted the defendant to his new home behind bars but right now i want to go out to dr michelle dupree who heard every single word of this testimony and saw a fellow medical examiner really take it on the chin. I'm talking about Dr. Reamer, who performed the autopsy on Maggie and Paul. Did you ever have any doubt that there would be a guilty verdict, doctor? I did have some doubt, Nancy. You know, the state put on a very good case, obviously, and I'm so delighted. But the defense did as well. And as you know, it only takes one juror to have that reasonable doubt.

Dr. Reamer did an excellent job. And I'm so proud of her that she stood up for what she said. She said, you know, I'm the one that did the autopsy. This is what I saw. And this is why it is what it is. And I think that was amazing she did a great job she really did and she underwent a pretty tough cross-examination you know to Chris McDonough it's part

of the job you go to medical school or to Academy the way you did and you get out ready to do your job you have no idea that you are fresh meat in the courtroom for somebody to cross-examine. There's probably really hard to number the cross-examinations you have endured in court, Chris. You know, Nancy, you are 100% right because you don't know what direction any court trial is going to go. And when you're sitting on that stand, it's extremely frustrating because the defense gets to ask you anything in a variety of different directions.

And, of course, as we've seen here in this particular case, being in law enforcement, well, you're the bad guy versus the defendant sitting there at the table. And, you know, that can take a toll on you if you're not prepared for it. So when you do, you know, sit down with inside of yourself and say, okay, this is my job. This is all business. It's not personal. Then you can get past it. You know, I just want to make one comment about Mark Keel. I've known Mark for quite some time. He's an extremely professional individual. He was the president of the State Association of

Criminal Investigators for quite some time. And he made one comment during that press conference that i i don't know if people caught it or not but he basically said anybody aiding and abetting murdoch alec murdoch and and he he presented it in such a way of i'm going to say here nancy there's a lot more to come. They're not done. SLED is not done. No, I caught that. SLED is not done. You know, to you, Joe Scott Morgan, not only professor of forensics and author, but death investigator,

how many times have you undergone intense questioning after you've done what you thought was your very best job? Countless, countless. And it never, you know, to the comment, you know, you can't take it personal. When you're a young investigator, you do. And you think that you're being impugned. But you have to understand defense is attempting to raise reasonable doubt. And they'll use any means at their disposal that's their job that's what they're there to do uh but it's it goes back to you being very exacting in

what you do and be able to uh to hold forth on uh the job that you've done that's why you always strive for excellence. Because, listen, they're always going to find a problem with what you've done. It's really easy to Monday morning quarterback in these particular cases. Guys, a name that has been woven through the fabric of this trial is Teen Girl Mallory Beach. Just stunning. Beautiful on the outside, beautiful on the inside. A teen girl with her life ahead of her until the night she went on a boat ride with a group of friends with Paul

Murdoch at the wheel. Dr drunk according to his blood alcohol at the time or so we have been led to believe in the last hours her father mallory beach's father has spoken out following this verdict listen just glad to see Justice, sir. It's been a long, long, last four years, and so it's an outcome that we were hoping for. I'm totally grateful. I'm so glad you're back. Right now, I just want to thank you for all the prayers and support. Because that's what's got to speak to someone. Prayers and support. And just ask for a continued prayer because I'm sure there's more victims out there waiting to get this closure.

I'm going to go ahead and get Paul's family's guidance. There you're hearing Mallory Beach's father speak out. Across this county and really across the country, all eyes have been on this courtroom wondering if justice would prevail. We would hear every day, whenever you turned on the TV or the radio, assaults on the state, on SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, on the process, on the prosecutors, the works. Every day, what a horrible job they were all doing, how they messed up the case, how there's reasonable doubt. It wasn't there. None of that was there.

And it all seemed to lift like a dark cloud over this courthouse behind me. Last night, when that verdict was read out loud in court. Judge Newman sentencing Alex Murdoch to not one but two consecutive, that means one after the next, life sentences in the murders of Paul and Maggie. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me, Kelly Skian is back in the chair, Fox Nation senior producer. Kelly, thank you again for joining me here outside the courthouse. I wonder what the delay is with the defense. They have been threatening to give a press conference for two hours. What? The defense just passed me. They are walking towards the microphones right now,

so it looks like we will be hearing from them momentarily. I see Dick Harpoolian, Jim Griffin, and a few others on their teams. There's Phillip Barber. They are walking towards the microphone, so we should hear from them any moment. They've probably been huddling furiously all morning trying to figure out what the hey they're going to say. They may have stopped off at the jail once Murdoch got there, reassuring him that they're going to appeal. They're going to seek justice, going over the points of appeal. And they better be ready. I'm sure they are. That when you sit in jail for a couple of months, you start thinking of things to appeal and how you were done wrong I'm sure they're going to claim

ineffective assistance of counsel when Griffin opened the door and allowed the state to bring in financial crimes that was a real turning point in the trial up until the in that moment the judge had disallowed all of that evidence the way he disallowed Alex Murdoch's affair but it all came in I'm sure Murdoch is going to use that to his advantage on appeal I hear Kel that the attorneys are walking to the microphone courthouse right behind us and there's a huge crowd gathered some of them Murdoch sympathizers and here they go let's hear what they've got to say I'm Dick Carpulian this is Jim Griffin that's Emily Dale that's Maggie Fox that's Holly Miller

and this is Phil Barber we are Alec Murdoch's defense team we're able to answer your questions we're not going to make a statement I know y'all don't want one so anybody got a question no next why didn't I like well for two reasons one she admit well she admitted she talked to other people about the case but not specifically but technically I think the judge had leeway to excuse her but I cheat clearly and after we interviewed her back in chambers in my mind did not made up her mind and I thought that was important I don't know she didn't express an opinion

to us she said she was open she had made up her mind deal points about sled and their handling of the investigation. For your position in the Senate, do you feel there's an opportunity to address that from a budget standpoint? I think there were significant issues, but I won't be addressing that in the Senate unless it comes up in a bill. I'm not going to mix this role with my role as a senator. I would not do that. Why do you think that the prosecutors didn't take the death penalty in this case?

And what do you make of the judge's comments after the verdict that he agreed with the jurors? Go ahead. He's a death penalty. What? Death penalty question. What was the question again? I'm sorry. Why didn't they take the death penalty? Well, you know, I'm somebody that's prosecuted and defended a bunch of death penalty cases.

And clearly, you never do it in a circumstantial case. Because you're not, 99 times out of 100, a jury's not going to sentence somebody to death without a, I saw him do it, he confessed, or, you know, great forensic evidence at the minimum. They had none of that here. Secondly, in a death penalty case it gives us the ability to individually voir dire jurors which would have been very helpful here and the prosecution obviously didn't want that so i don't disagree with i mean if i'd been prosecuting this case i probably wouldn't have brought it but um based on you know what we heard was presented to the

colton county grand jury by detective owen that Jim crossed, blood spatter that didn't exist, testimony about guns that was wrong. I mean, I can go through the litany with you. Going back to his question, I think SLED needs to do some self-examination on the forensic processing. They did not. One of the things we complained about was that Maggie's phone would have had all her GPS data on it if they processed it within five days and they because they didn't the GPS data got overwritten I

mean it was just one which would have been helpful to Alex fingerprints footprints and all kinds of forensics things that weren't done so what was the question about the judges he's entitled to his opinion ten days will be following an appeal what do you say what do you believe the strongest ground but an appeal? It was the admission of all the financial crime evidence. And that was offered up as evidence of motive that because he was confronted about one financial

transaction involving attorney's fees by the chief accountant of the law firm. And that was being offered as motive for why he would go home and kill his wife and son, which we thought was illogical and ludicrous. And there really was no evidence linking one to the other, and we did not think it should come in. Not only did that come in, but every other financial misdeed that they could bring in over the last 10 or 15 years was allowed in. And we think that we strongly objected. We respect the judge's decision, but we believe that that was was somewhat misled because at the conclusion of the case, when Mr. Meadors is up on his rebuttal argument in front of the jury, he says to the jury,

oh, forget about all that motive evidence. We don't have to prove motive. We just have to prove malice, which is right. But why did they go to all the effort to prove motive when at the end they say, you don't have to believe us on our motive theory, but by then they had cast Alec as a despicable human being and that was the reason they offered it in the first place. We think appellate courts will take a strong look at that. We feel like that is a very solid ground for an appeal, and we're going to pursue that. Looking back at the last six weeks, one trial, would you guys do anything different in the last six weeks? No. Anything in this trial?

No. I mean, look, once the judge, first of all, we believe if the judge was going to let that stuff in, it should have been limited to the Ferris case, which is what they were asking him about on Monday on the fee. Number two, Tinsley, the person that made the motion to compel to be heard on Thursday, Dawes Cook, Alex's lawyer, both agreed it wasn't going to be any storm or Armageddon or anything that was going to happen that Thursday. The judge might have issued an order, which months down the line might have posed a problem. So once they got that character information, he's a thief, he's a liar,

then it dictated this jury had to think he was a despicable human being and not to be believed. So it was about character. It wasn't about motive. So as a result, our options were limited. Should he take the stand? Well, you know, we debated that. He limited should he take the stand well you know we debated that he always wanted to take the stand but once that information was in i mean if he had to take the stand to explain the kennel video the lie if you will um he had to but he had no credit his

credibility had been stripped away by the financial trustees. Do you believe that the claim to pay the trustees is innocent? Yes. How is Buster doing and why did he choose not to speak at the Senate? We could have had Mother Teresa up there speaking on behalf of Alec at sentencing. I mean, he was getting a double life sentence. That was expected. I mean, this was Judge Newman.

He's a very stringent punisher when it comes to crimes and sentences. I mean, that was never in dispute. And so for Buster to get up and speak on his dad's behalf would not have made a difference. And why do you want to put that kid through more trauma than anybody that we can imagine has ever been through? What's that? You know, I can't speak to Buster's feelings. I can tell you this. There was a lot of effort by the state to convince the family that Alec is the murderer.

The family came to trial every day for six weeks, expecting to hear proof positive that he killed Maggie and Paul, something that they had not heard before. After six weeks of trial, they came away more convinced that he did not do this. And they steadfastly end his camp and support him. And that's where they stand. What's next for Alex? Well, Alex will be leaving shortly to go to Columbia to R&E is called, where he'll be at the South Carolina Department of Corrections. He'll be evaluated. That's about a 30-day process, and then he'll be sent to wherever the correctional facility that they assign him to.

Do you have any special security measures for him? No, I don't think. You know, Alec was not optimistic that with all of the scrutiny and press and all of his bad acts being out in the public, in the world, you know, media domain, that he could get, you know, a jury to put out all the noise and just focus on the murder. And so coming in, he was somewhat pessimistic he became optimistic as we got through the process but but i got to tell you and all you reporters you know you know the whole story i'm sure and if you're sitting on that jury they heard everything that would be in an hbo documentary a netflix documentary about the Murdoch family dynasty downfall except the Stephen Smith matter. I mean, so we were hoping to get a jury to put all, you know,

that could ignore the noise, focus on the murder, and we ended up trying a case that they could have watched on Netflix. Does your legal team have any regrets about the way that you got to perform in this trial? Do you feel like you did, do you feel like you were outmatched in closing arguments? Oh, absolutely not. I mean, not outmatched. I mean, look, they won this case the day the judge bought into letting them put every piece of, you know, stealing from kids who lost their mother, from somebody with pancreatic cancer, somebody that's a paraplegic.

I mean, all of that two and a half weeks, by the time they got done with it, it didn't matter about final argument. It didn't matter about what we put up. They would never, ever, ever acquit him after that. Last question. Can you just tell us what your ground for appeal will be? Is it going to be 10 days until you you lay out your PR commission on that? We'll file something not in 10 days, but we'll file a notice of intention to appeal. Then we've got 30 days, I think, to file a brief.

Yeah, so you file the notice within 10 days. You've got to get a transcript. Oh, that'll take a while. That'll take months before they type up everything. And then we start briefing. Are you all going to handle the appeal? Yes. And are you at the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court?

And the U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary. And the U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary. That's correct. What's the federal issue? Doyle. Oh, there's a huge federal issue. That's why I got so animated and the judge told me to sit down. And part of the trial is the state eliciting or asking questions of Alec

about why he did not come forward and tell law enforcement where he was at the time of the Kennel video. And that was after he was arrested. And U.S. Supreme Court cases are clear that post-arrest silence cannot be used against you. And that is a classic violation of the Fifth Amendment and and we feel strongly that if we lose at the state courts we'll have success in the federal court. Did you tell us about the plea negotiations before trial? No. There were no plea negotiations.

Because there weren't any. They never offered him anything. What effort are you making to find the real killer? What effort is he making? Not our job to find the real killer? What effort is he making? Not our job to find the real killer. If they had taken fingerprints, if they'd gotten footprints, if they hadn't destroyed, if they'd preserved Maggie's phone with her GPS, if they had not, I mean, they misrepresented to the grand jury that they had a shirt with his blood on it when they've been if they if you know if Owen had opened his email he says he didn't get would have told him a year before that was there was no human blood on that t-shirt

I mean it was a comedy of errors in terms of forensics on this so do I have faith that they would find the real killer no No. We don't know. Last question. Last question. Say that one more time. There was no choice. Why?

Because he had been made out to be a monster who stole from children and crippled people and crippled not that's not a correct word i'm sorry i'm an old guy crippled people um he was just done horrible despicable things um and he had to try to push back on that and and i mean if'd left that way without taking the stand, he was toast. Taking the stand, you know, could he pull it off? Apparently he didn't. In hindsight, do you regret not asking for a change of opinion in this case? Not really, because we checked. I mean, we did focus groups in this case in a county way far away from here. Eight of the ten people on the two focus groups knew all about this case.

I mean, there was nowhere you could go that you could find, we believe, you could find a jury that knew, that didn't know, hadn't watched TV, hadn't read the stuff you write or the stuff, the Twitter stuff. And by the way, one of the good pieces of information, now that this trial is is over Griffin can start tweeting again yes sir all right thank you guys thank you and there you have it as tone deaf as ever joining me right now a very special guest you saw him in the. A man who has been in the South Carolina Attorney General's office as the elected top cop of the state for 12 years. With me, Attorney General Alan Wilson.

Attorney General, thank you for being with us. Does it never end with the mantra, it's their fault, it's their fault, it's their fault. He murdered his wife and son. It's his fault. That's what we've been hearing for six weeks. Look at everything. Look at everyone else. Just don't look at Alec Murdoch. That's what that's what we've been hearing all along. Again, we've gotten thousands of pieces of evidence, dozens and dozens of witnesses we've interviewed. He's been caught in lie after lie after lie. And I'm not talking about the lies he's been telling for years. I'm talking about the lies he's been telling from the stand last week. You know, Attorney General Alan Wilson did something I don't believe I have ever seen an elected AG do in this country, and I've dealt with a lot of them. He came into that courtroom

and he said to Lee Counsel, Creighton Waters, hey, I'll work for you. I'll do what you need done. You know, you very rarely see someone with a big title roll up their sleeves and go to work for somebody else. Guys, with me right now is the Attorney General Alan Wilson. What led you to come out of your office and get back in the courtroom? You are a veteran trial lawyer yourself, but you don't try a lot of cases as the attorney general. No, it's hard to find an attorney general who will actually try a case because as the attorney general, you have a huge bureaucracy to run. I have 300 employees. I have 8,000 other cases that we have to manage.

We have to deal with the General Assembly and the general public at large. And so when this case was obviously getting all the national notoriety, I told Creighton, I said, Creighton, I'm assigning you as the lead prosecutor, but I'm going to be involved in the case from the side. I'm going to let you run it. You're in charge, but I'm there to help and support you. The level of notoriety and the level of scrutiny that our office was going to get, I felt I needed to be there. Also, Nancy, you saw us at the hotel when you were coming and going. I mean, we were living a very spartan existence for the last six weeks. It was, you know, 15, 16 hour days, a little sleep, getting here early in the morning, nonstop. I wanted my people to know that we were going, I was going to be in the trenches with them. And then late last week, Creighton was getting ready

for his closing argument. And I said, what can I do to help? And he said, you want to take a witness? And so I decided to take the last closing witness to kind of destroy the ridiculous theory that the defense put up regarding the two shooters. So it was my honor to be able to participate in the trial and to help and support our team. You know, another thing, Attorney General, is I think a lot of AGs across the country don't ever get back in the courtroom because they're afraid they'll lose and they don't want to look bad politically. But when you're a trial lawyer and you're dedicated to justice that's part of it you have to go in there win or lose and do the right thing to the best of your ability regardless of the outcome and that is what you and waters did right in there and i know you had to watch the news coverage at night. One magpie after the

next talking about they did this wrong. They did that wrong. Sled is terrible. The state's going to lose. There's reasonable doubt. Did that ever get to you? You know, honestly, during the course of the trial, we were so engaged. We were so involved that I never really, I kind of drowned it out. It's like when you're in the middle of the game, you're not listening to the audience. You're not listening to the naysayers. You're just in the zone. And I felt like I was in the zone with our prosecution team. I could see that in the courtroom.

And all this time, you've been away from your family and away from your wife, away from your whole family. How did they handle you being gone? You know, I really want to give a shout out to my wife, Jennifer, who really appreciated what was going on here and the need for me to be down here in Walterboro, South Carolina, to be able to support our team in the trenches, to be suffering with them. Their families were not seeing them, you know, so my family understood that. And I also want to say one thing, Nancy. I want to give a shout out to the city of Walterboro and this county, the Colton County Sheriff's Department, all the agencies, all the people.

We walk into restaurants, people would come up and shake our hands and thank us. I want to say thank you for the hospitality we received at our hotel. I mean, everyone's just been so kind. It's been a wonderful experience in this community. Well, I got to tell you something, A.G. I had the same experience. It's beautiful here and the people are so friendly. It reminds me so much of my home in Macon, Georgia. Everyone very welcoming, no matter whether you were at a food truck or the hotel or the McDonald's, everyone the same.

And I noticed also when you guys finally managed to convince that jury of Alex Murdoch's guilt, nobody could believe it. I compared it a few moments to when the Wicked Witch was killed in Wizard of Oz. How everybody crept out from hiding and went, is the Wicked Witch dead? Did this really happen? Because so many people, A.G., were saying, I believe he did this thing, but he's a Murdoch. He'll never be convicted. Nancy, you nailed it right on the head. Way back early on, back during the Boat case, when our office was prosecuting in the Boat case, people thought that the Murdochs were going to be

above the law and they would get away with this. That's what I heard. And what we wanted to send a message here in South Carolina, at least through our office, is that no one is above the law. No one, no matter what your station is in society, no one, everyone should be treated equally and fairly under the law. And that's, we just pursue justice. We weren't prosecuting a person, we were prosecuting conduct. And that conduct was that Alec Murdoch on June 7th, 2021, violently and brutally mowed down his wife and son in cold blooded murder. And we held him accountable. And I hope that the people out there who question the criminal justice system understand that everyone is going to be treated the same under the court of law.

No one is above the law. Where do you believe Alex Murdoch will ultimately be housed? Well, he's being taken to Columbia right now for in-processing. That takes 30 to 45 days. And then they'll assess at that time what correctional facility he should be going to. We won't know that for some time because that takes several weeks. Attorney General Alan Wilson joining us. I certainly hope he's not headed to a facility like a club fed where he does yoga and culinary classes and gets a PhD in basket weaving. What are the choices in South Carolina when you've been convicted of double murder where do you

go? Well obviously maximum security prison is on the table but again that is something that will be determined you know through this in processing process so I'm not quite sure how that works I know it takes about 30 to 45 days nancy if i if i may i do want to say this because one thing i appreciate appreciate about you when you talk about these cases you don't just talk about the law you talk about the humanity of the people behind the case and this case has been nationalized people are talking about it across the pond over in europe everywhere around the country and what i want to remind people of is and this is going to be a hollywood movie this will be People are talking about it across the pond over in Europe, everywhere around the country. And what I want to remind people of is, and this is going to be a Hollywood movie, this

will be multiple movies and shows. You get away from the notoriety, you get away from the scandal and the salaciousness. You look, two people were brutally murdered and then a family was destroyed, a community was torn asunder. I mean, people really, I mean, lives were affected. This trial has become a caricature of itself. And I want to remind people that when you go home today, hug your family. Hug your family and appreciate them because lives were destroyed. You know, A.G. Wilson, truer words were never spoken. And I saw you last night FaceTiming with your wife, who has been through her own brave battle.

And I agree with you. I cannot tell you how fast I'm going to burn rubber to get home to my children after this. And you're right. It's not about this ruling and that ruling in an appeal it's about Paul and Maggie who in that one moment in the space of a minute came to a horrible bloody end Maggie trying I believe to save Paul and find out what was happening to her son when she was cut down as well I mean do you ever sit back and just let yourself think about what they endured that night?

Listen, I got to see photos that the public hasn't seen, and they haunt me. I mean, it is one of the most gruesome death scenes I've ever seen. It was just horrible, Nancy. It was horrible what they must have been thinking about in their final moments, final seconds of their life. But again, I can't thank our team in the Attorney General's office and our law enforcement partners for this Herculean effort. It felt almost like in a legal sense we were storming the beaches of Normandy. This was a very, very hard case to prosecute logistically, and I can't thank them enough.

And I want to say one last thing. People keep asking me, at least over the last year, what would drive a man to brutally murder his wife and his son? And what I tell people is, in my mind, in my opinion, I believe that Alec, in his own warped way, loved his family. But he loved himself more. And murdering them was the price he was willing to pay to preserve his way of life. And that is what I kind of boil it down to. Okay, AJ, I know you're headed on to your next

big thing, but I've got to ask you a question. I think you would agree with me trial strategy-wise that you never perform an experiment or a demonstration in court without practicing it first. Would you agree to that, AJ? Yes, ma'am. I feel like I'm being cross-examined right now. Then what may I ask possessed you to perform that experiment with Dr. Kinsey, which I might add, I believe, was one of the turning points of this trial. That was an incredible thing. So when we saw the defense expert put forward their ridiculous theory about how the shooter would have had to shoot Paul in that small closet-like feed room and then walk around him to shoot him from behind.

I was talking to Kenny, and I said, you know, this doesn't make sense to me. We went downstairs and kind of tried to recreate this downstairs in a closet-like room, and it didn't work. And I said, Kenny, we need to demonstrate this for the jury. And so we went back upstairs, and we looked at that door, which was actually a little bit bigger than the feed room door. It was a couple inches wider. And I said, Kenny, we're going to demonstrate this in front of the jury. And as we were demonstrating how cumbersome and how difficult and how implausible the defense's theory was, it just, it made sense. And so we

just both agreed to do it. By the way, a lot of people think I pointed the gun at his head. I did not. I actually pointed it to the side. I wanted to make sure people knew that. And A.G. Wilson, you just heard the defense presser. Hart Putlian is not one with which you trifle. He's a veteran trial lawyer. He's won a lot of cases and he is in the state legislature. I mean, he's got a lot of political clout. What did you make of what they had to say? They were very dismissive of this case. Look, the defense has got to say what they've got to say. They've got to do what they've got to do. I don't want to comment on what they say. Other than to say it's the same thing that was said in trial. It's everyone else's fault, but Alec, I can tell you right now, I heard a little bit of

what one of the jurors said that what really killed this for them was the Kennel video and Alec's taking the stand and his lies. That it did not make sense to the jury that they were actually basically caught. That that really captured their imagination that this guy is a liar. It wasn't all the financial stuff. That helped frame for them, I'm sure, that everything was coming to a head that day on June 7th. But it was actually him taking the stand and him being confronted with his own lie in the Kennel video that really, I think, won the day. Attorney General Wilson, I just want to congratulate you on a very hard-fought trial won. And we're all so impressed with seeing an AG come out of his office and get in the courtroom and in the ring, win or lose, and give it your all. Thank you for being with us today.

Thank you, Nancy. It's so great to be with you. Likewise. Guys, you were just hearing the elected Attorney General, Alan Wilson. And to me, what makes it even more poignant is his wife has been fighting a very brave battle against breast cancer. And he is in constant touch with her. And together they made a decision for him to come to this courtroom and seek justice. Not just him, but everyone involved gave up so much and sacrificed so much to reach a verdict that speaks the truth. Now, the defense has just taken the podium, and I want you to hear what lead attorney Dick Hartputlian have to say in our cut 20. Take a listen to what just occurred.

You know, I'm somebody that's prosecuted and defended a bunch of death penalty cases. And clearly, you never do it in a circumstantial case. Because you're not, 99 times out of 100, a jury's not going to sentence somebody to death without a, I saw him do it, he confessed, or, you know, great forensic evidence at the minimum. They had none of that here. Secondly, in a death penalty case, it gives us the ability to individually voir dire jurors, which would have been very helpful here. And the prosecution obviously didn't want that.

So I don't disagree with, I mean, if I'd been prosecuting this case, I probably wouldn't have brought it. If I had been prosecuting this case, I probably wouldn't have brought it, says Dick Hart-Pootlian, the lead defense attorney flanked by the other members of the defense team. Guys, the entire defense team just came out and gave their view on the guilty verdict and the sentence. Now, you heard Hart Putley state that he would never have brought the case had he been in the charging decision. They also promise to lodge an appeal. But what about finding the real killer? Take a listen to Our Cut 22.

Not our job to find the real killer. If they had taken fingerprints, if they'd gotten footprints, if they hadn't destroyed, if they'd preserved Maggie's phone with her GPS, if they had not, I mean, they misrepresented to the grand jury that they had a shirt with his blood on it. And if they, if, you know, if Owen had opened his email, he says he didn't get, we'd have told him a year before that there was no human blood on that T-shirt. I mean, it was a comedy of errors in terms of forensics on this. So do I have faith that they would find the real killer? No. We're about to be joined by a man we've all wanted to speak to, Creighton Waters, who led the prosecution against Alex Murdoch through thick and thin. This is a man who I earlier called pale and gaunt, but I heard from a super secret

courthouse source that he actually did lose 15 pounds while he was preparing and trying this case. Dale Carson, hold on just a moment. Here I've got Creighton Waters, the lead attorney in this case. Mr. Waters, are you there? I'm here. How are you? I'm great, and I hope you are too. Creighton Waters, congratulations on a very hard-fought trial and a victory for the victims in this case.

Could you tell me the single most difficult moment of this trial for you? Well, I think the most difficult moment was actually when you get up and rise to go cross-examine the defendant. Obviously, that was a moment that I thought was going to happen, and I was waiting for that to happen and anxious for it to happen. But as you know, when you do this job, you know, you get up there and you realize this is it. It's crunch time and you have to get it done. And that probably was difficult, but I think it's kind of like what you hear players say about the Super Bowl. You know, there's a lot of pressure and attention on it, but once you run your first play, it's just another football game and you get down to business. With me, guys, the lead attorney for the state in the prosecution of a legal error, Alex Murdoch.

Creighton Waters, again, thank you for being with us. I will never forget the moment just before you started closing statements. You got up. You walked out of the room, out of the courtroom. I thought, where is he going now? It's time for closing arguments. And then you were gone maybe two or three minutes. You walked right back in and you seemed like a man on a mission with just one thing on your mind and that was closing statements, and you walked right past all the spectators, right down the middle aisle. You didn't give one glance over to the defense. You went straight for the jury. And I knew, game on.

What was going through your mind when you were giving that closing statement? Well, it was focus, and it was how to take six weeks of testimony and distill it down for this jury. But it's also that chance, you know, you make eye contact with a jury, you get to kind of interact with them when you're examining witnesses, but that's not like the chance to give that closing argument, to really talk to them, to look them in the eye, to gauge their reactions, to interact with them, to explain the evidence from your perspective, to look them in the eye, to gauge their reactions, to interact with them, to explain the evidence from your perspective, to try to answer those questions. But it also was to go through just an incredibly complex situation.

It was a moment that I relished, and it was one that I felt like it's go time. And that's what I did. Creighton, were you surprised when Alex Murlock decided to take the stand? Not at all. I think that we often thought that this would be the case. This is a man. We kind of know the personality profile. I've done a lot of corruption and con man type cases,

and individuals like that, they've never had to face accountability they typically come from some sort of privilege they've always been able to talk their way out of trouble they've always been able to own a room and they can't resist it they're confident in their ability to do that and what a better example of that could you possibly have than Alec Murdoch and I was always believed that he would never be able to resist the temptation to sit down and try to look that jury in the eye and convince them of one last con. But that's why, how I went about that cross-examination was to let him talk, get him talking, have pauses where he could not help himself. And I knew that in the end, he would continue to manufacture things.

The jury would see him lie in real time, and that would be compelling, and I think that it was. You know, media went crazy, and they were, you know, attacking you on many fronts. But one was, why is he letting Alex Murdoch explain things on the stand? And it was really simple in my mind. You were just giving him some more rope to let him hang himself, to just keep talking, which we knew he would, and ultimately make a horrible impression on the jury. That's exactly right. You know, some cross-examinations you try to really control the answers, but that was not my strategy here. I went with initially a more constructive cross-examination and again, get him talking. I knew this guy was a master liar and he couldn't help himself and that this jury

would see the truth because they had heard so much about the fact that he was not really who anyone who thought they were close to him was. And ultimately, yeah, like you said, gave him a rope and that's what he did. He hung himself. We've got a lot of questions and this is a little bit of a tough question, Creighton Waters. Why did Maggie's family not appear in the courtroom or give a victim impact statement? Well, I'll say this. This is an extremely complicated situation for this family. And one of the things that we decided to do early on is regardless of a person in this family, regardless of their viewpoint of the prosecution or the case or whatever,

we were still going to be extremely respectful. We were going to have our victim's advocate provide them with services, regardless of which side they wanted to sit on. And we had to recognize that whatever you want to say about this, this family has suffered and they've had to suffer in a public way that just, I think, has added to that. And I think it's very complicated for a lot of people. I think it's very complicated because there still are relationships there. And ultimately, you never want to re-traumatize

any victim. We know and we believe that we were able, and the jury, more importantly, was able to speak for Maggie and Paul. That's what's most important about this case. It's become obviously a because it's such a unique situation has become what it has become but fundamentally we can't forget that this was about Maggie and Paul and I know that there are people who are happy and proud that the jury spoke for them yesterday. Well part of the rub there the fly in the ointment, is that anything that Maggie's family might want to say about Alex Murdoch could potentially hurt Buster, who

is also their blood relative, and they love him. So they were kind of between a rock and a hard spot. Like I say, all I will say is that it's a very complicated situation for all of the members of this family. And as the prosecutors, we wanted to be respectful and sensitive regardless of how they looked at the case. So, Creighton, how did you put your team together? Where did you find them all? Well, that's great. So what I fundamentally do is state grand jury,

and state grand jury focuses on complex cases, corruption, white collar, cartel dope, things like that. And this is a team that I've been fortunate to hire every one of them. And we do these complex investigations all the time. We have state grand jury terms, which are actually the way we do it, or kind of mini trials, three days a month from jurors all over the state. And so we're used to constantly putting together very complex things. And so everybody brought to the table differing skills. They all have differing areas of expertise. And in this case, which is unlike any other, all of those were relevant and I couldn't be more proud of this team.

It was a team effort. I may be the one sitting here, but every single member of this team deserves just as much credit and was just as important and frankly, there's no way I could have survived without each and every one of them. So I've never been more proud and we're also still speaking to one another as far as I know. So that's pretty amazing in and of itself after six weeks of going through this stressful process. Everybody wants to know what Creighton Waters is going to do tonight.

How do you get past a trial that you have been so involved in? Well, I can tell you that, you know, when you're sitting in that chair in that chair, the pressure of every decision is immense. And so it is a sense of relief. I think, Nancy, I think I'm just kind of numb right now. I think that this was weird, but yesterday I was probably less nervous waiting for that verdict than I've ever been in any other, you know, waiting for a jury before. And I think it was just because we had really reached peak exhaustion and laid ourselves out, put everything out there. So, and then, of course, we still had court today, so we really weren't able to celebrate last night.

But I think tonight was when we'll have a chance to reflect and enjoy it. And then the AG told me he's going to give me 30 minutes off on Monday. So that's good. But no, I'll probably take some time off and see my family again. And just, but here's the thing, you know, we got tons of other bad guys out there. We got tons of other cases. We got prison cases. We got cartel cases. We got corruption cases. And those have all kind of been on hold. And so we got to get back to it. And we also have to get back to the white collar offenses. Those are still very important because they go right to the heart of this profession that Alec abused. And that

deserves accountability too, regardless of what happened in this trial. And we plan to seek that. Grayton Waters, in South Carolina, when somebody gets a life sentence, is that life until the end of their natural life? Is it life without the possibility of parole? There are two consecutive life sentences here. What does that mean in real terms? Yeah, so in South Carolina, that's life without parole. And so he's got two consecutive life sentences.

And so ultimately, you know, what does that mean in practical terms? Well, having those two consecutive life sentences, if for some reason one got, you know, thrown out on appeal and the other didn't, which is an unlikely scenario, but you'd still have the other one there. But ultimately, that's without parole. Now, obviously, the legislature at some point could go back and change the law and provide parole eligibility for life sentences. So that's why that consecutive nature is still important. But as the law stands and how it stood, I believe since 1996, that's without parole and Ellick is not leaving the South Carolina Department of Corrections until he's leaving

in a pine box. Question to you, what do you see as the future for the white collar crimes? I think that we plan to aggressively prosecute those. As I just said, they go to the heart of this profession. We've talked about trust a lot with Alec and how he abused that. And you know, it takes the profession of being a lawyer depends on trust. And he violated that to its core. He abused the system to its core. Lawyers can be adversarial but we still depend on being able to trust one another, to look one another in the eye and to rely on each other's word even if we're doing the fiercest of battle.

And that kind of thing, that kind of abuse of those victims and those cases, they deserve a voice too. These were people that had been hurt, perhaps their family members had been killed, they had suffered, and this was compensation that was supposed to be for them. And Alex stole it, and he did it by betraying the trust of not only those victims, but also the system itself. We take that very seriously, and there's going to be a reckoning for that as well. Creighton, where did all the money go? Does anybody really believe he spent $60,000 a week? Or is that just something he drummed up, cooked up when he was in rehab over in Savannah or in Atlanta? I mean, where did all that money go?

Well, I don't think, you know, as I argued to the jury, that the amount of pills that he claimed to be taking is survivable by anyone. And that's assuming that you're getting real pills and not counterfeit ones that are laced with fentanyl. Because if you're doing that, it's only a matter of time before you get a hot one and all the Narcan in the county can't save you. But we found, in my experience in white collar cases, is that's always the question. So much money gets stolen and everybody assumes, well, it be somewhere but when you are living a life beyond your means and you're spending money like you're spending it, it can go quick and it can go very quick and that often is the case. People think that there's a chest in

somewhere and most instances there's not when you say spending money like they're spending it on what what were they spending money i mean i mean i know they've got three homes which is unusual for most of us i know they would take private planes here and there i know they had beautiful furnishings and beautiful insides to the homes but I mean nine million dollars what were they spending it on well here's the thing I described it as an incessant roller coaster or a constant hamster wheel you know this kind of thing builds and builds and it started over a decade ago clearly this man had a greed this man also

who wouldn't concede to these jurors that were looking at him that he was even wealthy, that even became a point of contention, which was baffling to me, but that's just who he is. But you get on this roller coaster of constant borrowing, you know, interest gets expensive, and you've been spending like you're never worried about money. And as each year progresses, when you're in that kind of cycle, so much more and more of that money goes to interest, on top of the fact that your lifestyle continues to increase. It's an old adage that the more you spend, the more you make. And then if you're a thief or someone like Alec, it just gets beyond that.

So he was really spending money in a manner that was out of control. But if we certainly had found a chest of money somewhere, obviously we would have brought that into evidence. You know, I was listening to what the defense said and their defense presser, Creighton Waters, you guys with me, is the lead counsel in the prosecution against illegal heir Alex Murdoch, who's in court every single day duking it out, handling the huge majority of the case himself. Question, when you heard the defense and their pressure, they just gave a few feet away over there at the courthouse, they claimed that you and the state are the ones that destroyed

Alex Murdoch's reputation and that you brought it in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they bring up a financial misdeed, a financial crime? Yeah, well, he did. And I didn't destroy Alex Murdoch's reputation. He did that on his own. But we obviously litigated very heavily at the beginning of the case and filed a pretrial motion ourselves, the state, to seek to admit this evidence, which was very important. It was very important to understand this unique individual and this unique situation. And there's no way to understand and to explain that

most important of questions is that what can possess a man to get to the point where he murders his wife and more importantly murders his son. And there's a lot of factors there of which the finances are just one. But they were all leading to a gathering storm, as I described it, a perfect storm that was arriving on June the 7th. We litigated this prior to the case. We made the defense aware and the judge aware that we were intending to rely on it, that there was a chain of circumstances that connected together with all of this that led to pressures arriving on that day.

And we knew that this was consistent with, you know, even though you can't admit this kind of evidence, this idea of the family annihilator. It's actually a very recognized phenomenon where you typically have a white male in his 50s who's had great success and prominence and who's facing a breakup of the family. We knew his father was dying and he's facing potential family ruin. He's got this dope addiction and family violence is associated with that. This is a common phenomenon. And so Alec fits all of that to the T, and maybe even more so,

because, again, this is a man that not a single person who thought they were close to him, not a single person who knew him actually knew who he was. And as I said in sentencing, that's just chilling. It's just very chilling. And it was chilling when he tried to every day stare me down as he walked out of the courtroom. I could look in his eyes, the eyes are the window to the soul, and I could see who this man was. And thankfully, the jury did as well. I got to ask you another question. While I've got you, Creighton Waters, you know, the whole roadside shooting incident, I never bought that it was really for life insurance because, you know, when you orchestrate

a shooting, you're not going to get the insurance. I always thought it was a way for Alex Murdoch to suggest or to plant in everyone's minds that the real killer was still out there and coming for him. Right. Yes. Well, and that's it. I mean, this is all I'll say because this is how we did it in evidence and how we discussed it. It doesn't really matter what his supposed intent was on the side of the road. What really matters is what he did in the aftermath and that's of course to call 911 and to tell the ambulance driver and to tell law enforcement at the scene that he had been just simply dealing with a flat tire and had

been suddenly and without warning shot in the back of the head by an unknown assailant. And that's clearly what it was. It clearly was meant to try to create in the minds of people, oh my gosh, the supposed real killers are back. And that's precisely what he did. And there's also a symmetry there between what happened on June 7th and what you see happen on September 4th. When accountability was finally arriving for Alec Murdoch on both those dates, bad things happened. Violence happens. And I think that he was trying again. He had just faced things he could no longer deny at the law firm.

And it's certainly no coincidence that within a short period of time, the side of the road happens. And all of a sudden, Alec, who was about to face accountability like he never had, all of a sudden he's a victim again. All of a sudden he's in the hospital. All of a sudden he's in the hospital. All of a sudden everybody's rushing to his aid. All of a sudden everybody's worried that the threat is out there. And it was all BS. And once again, we hear Alex Murdoch very fluently lying to 911 on the phone and establishing a big lie. With us, Creighton Waters. I can't thank you enough. We watched you throughout

the trial and it's a real honor and privilege to get to speak to you. Thank you for joining us. It was great to talk to you Nancy and thank you very much. Guys we are here outside the courthouse and bringing you the sentencing and the aftermath in the case of Alex Murdoch, now convicted and sentenced to two consecutive life sentences in the murders of Maggie and Paul. It has been a long, long journey to this day of justice. I want to thank you for being with us every step of the way. Guys, so much has been happening in and outside the courtroom. I only wish you could be here with us and seeing people still milling around,

people still questioning what happened at the defense presser, what happened in the courtroom. Guys, the defense attorney is vowing an appeal, a vigorous appeal. I want you to take a listen to our Cut 21. This was Dick Hartputlian at his best. Take a listen. Ten days, we'll be filing an appeal. What do you believe the strongest grounds for an appeal are? It was the admission of all the financial crime evidence.

And that was offered up as evidence of motive. That because he was confronted about one financial transaction involving attorney's fees by the chief accountant of the law firm that and that was being offered as motive for why he would go home and kill his wife and son which we thought was illogical and ludicrous and and um and there really was no evidence linking one to the other and we did not think it should come in the um not only did that come in but every other uh financial misdeed that they could bring in over the last 10 or 15 years was allowed in and and we think that we strongly objected we respect the judge's decision but but we believe that that was erroneous decision guys uh an erroneous decision. Guys, an erroneous decision?

This is less than 24 hours after the jury verdict. But I believe him in the sense that they will appeal. Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Dale Carson, joining us out of Jacksonville, former Fed, with the FBI. What do you think will be their strongest point on appeal? Well, I mean mean clearly the character evidence is at issue here did they destroy his character in such an effective way that there was no way for anyone to believe his testimony and clearly when he testified on stand there were certain

characteristics that seemed to not be someone who's telling the truth. But there are two other points. One is that when he testified, there were a number of occasions during the testimony where the jurors could watch his reaction to questions that were put to him by the prosecutor. And it was clear that he was not responding properly and in a way that was disconnected from the truth. I mean, he never really answered many of the questions. So the other point here is that when they appeal the case, they have the issue of the juror who was removed, and they also have the other issues of presenting that

character evidence which made his testimony irrelevant ultimately but I would look for the appeal to come quickly and to ultimately not be supported by the appellate courts for a number of reasons this was an excellent trial judge who watched the evidence as it came in and made informed decisions about whether or not the government should be allowed to present it. And it seemed to me his rulings were appropriate given the circumstances. Well, as far as all the financial evidence, which, yes, attacks his reputation of course that's his own doing typically other crimes not related to the case in chief the murder are not allowed and it is

reversible error in this case however the state continued to assert that that was motive evidence that all the financial pressures and as they described like a rat on a wheel going around and around Murdoch was pushed to the brink and that he believes somehow by killing Maggie and Paul it would alleviate that pressure it would number one make the boat crash case the multi-million dollar lawsuit go away and it did it subs subsided. The lawyer who we just spoke with, Tinsley, said the case was worth a lot less once Paul was killed, because then you don't have a drunken young man responsible for a death. you have a grieving father. And that's much more sympathetic.

And there were rumors swirling, of course, that Maggie was seeking a divorce. And that would require forensic accounting, which would reveal years of teeth. The fact, South Carolina was considering returning to a jury trial for divorces and had that happened. And of course, he was in a position to be aware of this. He could all of his testimony would point to the financial crimes that he was engaged in. So what an easy way to get rid of that possibility. I mean, that bill is in committee now, but it's quite possible, we believe, that it could come to fruition by being passed, and that would have exposed him even more directly and would have allowed the now-deceased wife to get all of his assets.

Well, another thing, if you look at his opioid addiction, which he used as a defense, that in itself destroyed his reputation. He did that on his own. They brought that in. The defense brought that in. So his reputation was already shot to hell back because of that. Squandering 50 grand a week, according to the defense, on opioids, basically stealing that out of his wife and his family's pockets? Oh no, his reputation was in tatters before the financial misdeeds came in. People who use drugs are not predictable. I mean, a normal human being is not necessarily predictable, but certainly one who's using narcotics, whether licicit or illicit, you can't predict their behavior. And I think the judge got it exactly right.

Maybe you didn't do it, but the monster that you've become is what killed your wife and the son you loved. And I think that's just as accurate as it gets. I don't want to go too deep into complicated legal theories, but I want to tell you this. It's what's bothering me about the financial crimes coming in. Do I think that they were warranted in coming in? Yes, I do. Do I think his reputation was already shot because of the opioid addiction that they entered as an excuse? But here's where Murdoch may have a shot. And I mean may.

The fact that the defense opened the door to prior bad acts. I believe it was Griffin on the stand asked about a prior financial crime. And when he did that, it's like a vampire. You have to invite it in. It can't just come in on its own. And when Griffin opened the door, the state came in. Under the law, that is allowable. But now Murdoch is in the position of claiming ineffective assistance of counsel because because of Griffin's question all that financial data all those crimes previously ruled out came in I could see him having a leg to stand and do I think it'll work no I don't think it's going to work I mean if you look statistically Dale Carson when a defendant takes a stand and completely uh T-bones his case in front of the jury,

very rarely do you get a reversal on appeal. Very rare. That's the stats. But there's no question that the ability of him winning the appeal is quite limited, given not only the length of the information that came before the jury panel when they made their decision, but also the way the court handled the presentation of the evidence and what he allowed to appear before the jury, the admitted evidence. You know, I don't think he's got much of a chance of winning an appeal. However,

any question related to why an attorney is present and you don't respond to things, that's certainly something that could overturn some of this. But I think the evidence is massive against him. He was the only person there. Family guns were used, even though one of the firing was changed. You know, there was a lot of evidence that supported his conviction. Yes, ma'am. Hold on just a second. I want to get to Chris McDonough before we lose his satellite. Chris McDonough, I know you're hearing Dale Carson speaking.

He's a veteran trial lawyer. He knows what he's talking about. But if this thing does, by chance, get reversed on appeal, that's going to be such a kick in the teeth for all the law enforcement that worked so hard to put this case together. Yeah, it will be, Nancy, because, you know, all of that effort obviously will feel like, you know, okay, we got to do this all over again. I think they'll rally the troops if, you know, God forbid that happens. As we just listen to just the tone of the humility on the prosecution side, I mean, from the top down, every one of your guests here today have been, you know, so humble in transferring the, you know, the applause to the next person.

But then you hear the other side, and granted, the defense has to do their job, and they're doing a great job. But you almost hear Alec speaking again. And that in of itself, again, just tells us what these guys have been up against for the last year and a half, two years. But for it to come back and to start all over again, I think it would be very disheartening. Disheartening. And, you know, Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and so much more. That's why they get the big bucks. And let me tell you something, Dick Hart Putlian and Griffin, they don't come cheap. They're going to fight this thing, and they gave him a fantastic defense.

But look what they had to work with. I mean, the crime scene evidence alone, that's your billiwick, was damning. Yeah, it was. And they went out and got some top-notch experts. But I'd like to address something else here, Nancy. Three words, aiding and abetting. If anyone thinks that SLED is done with this investigation, you better wake up and smell coffee. Because my suspicion is they're going to continue to dig into this case. You brought up a very salient point a few moments ago uh when you were talking

to the prosecutor you were asking where did all that money go and it's a ton of money millions and millions of dollars this is not like some kind of uh it didn't just vanish my suspicion is somebody else has had a hand in this now i don't know if they were directly involved in what happened out there that night. But those weapons are somewhere out in the deep, dark hole right now. That money is somewhere right now. I wonder whose pocket it's in. And anybody that participated in the facilitation of this crime or cover upup, SLED is going to be on this. They're going to be looking at it.

You know, it's understood that a defense attorney is going to go out and get in front of a bank of microphones the day after his client has been found guilty. That's a given. But, you know, a few moments ago, it was mentioned that when the chief got up there from SLED, and he mentioned that kind of tangential comment that he made relative to others that might be involved. They're not sleeping on this, Nancy.

They're moving forward. And I can tell you, there will be no stone left unturned. Their focus here has been on Alec. And don't, you know, nobody kid yourself here. He's looking at a long time in prison. If he can soften the blow by rolling over on anybody at all, where he would get special privileges, I'm not talking about a reduction in sentence, but getting taken out of general population or anything like that, trust me, once that pressure is applied inside that institution, he will do it. If there's anybody else involved in this, he's going to start screaming pretty soon. Guys, I want you to hear our cut 15.

This is what it all is about. This is how this case culminates with Judge Newman passing sentence on Alex Murdoch. Mr. Murdoch, I sentence you to the State Department of Corrections on each of the murder indictments in the murder of your wife, Maggie Murdoch. I sentence you for

the term of the rest of your natural life for the murder of Paul Murdoch. natural life, for the murder of Paul Murdaugh, whom you probably love so much, I sentence you to prison for murdering him for the rest of your natural life, those sentences will run consecutive. Under the statute involving possession of a weapon during a violent crime, there is no sentence where a life sentence is imposed on other indictments. That is the sentence of the court, and you are remanded to the State Department of Corrections. And officers may carry forth on the imposition.

Alex Murdoch standing emotionless as the sentence is read. Two life sentences to run consecutively, one after the next. And that is much the way he responded when the jury found him guilty. He didn't seem surprised at all. Kelly Skian, did you notice no surprise registered on his face at all when he was sentenced, nor when he was convicted? Yeah, I think we're at an interesting juncture here, Nancy. We've heard up until this point that Alec Murdoch has played a big role in his own defense. And I think this tiger is going to change his stripes and probably, like we've been talking about, turn on his own defense team

and try and say that he got ineffective counsel, although he was part of that. So I think as all of these charges are being read, Alec Murdoch is looking forward to the future because according to the prosecution and according to the jury, he killed his wife and son. And deep down, he knows that. So as he's been planning his alibi and changing his alibi, maybe he's already been thinking ahead to the future and how he's going to fight this verdict and file appeals and continue to play a role in his own defense with different lawyers possibly. Yeah, Murdoch is wily and cunning like a fox. I guarantee you he's already planning his next move and he knows the system. He is a veteran trial lawyer himself. He's won a lot of cases. He

knows how to manipulate juries, how to make arguments, how to lay in reversible error if needed in a trial. But it was his decision to take the stand. Before he got up on the stand, the judge very carefully said, does anybody have a motion or does anybody have anything they want to say? Before Murdoch took the stand and they said no. And very typically at the end of a trial you'll hear a judge tell the defendant you have a right to remain silent are you sure you want to take the stand and then that's on the defendant guys many people are wondering how the jury reached their decision and we did hear from one juror early early take a listen to him speaking to our friends over at GMA.

He started deliberating, going through the evidence. Everybody was pretty much talking. And about 45 minutes later, after all our deliberating, we figured it out. So it took basically 45 minutes for you guys to come to a decision? Probably about 45, maybe an hour. If you really look at everything, it's all plain and clear. Wow. It was very clear to this jury and many people, Dale Carson, have attacked the jury already saying they rushed to judgment. They've been listening to evidence for weeks. I don't think there was a rush. No, I don't either, Nancy.

And I, you know, one of the interesting things that the defense brought up, which I thought was rather interesting and insightful from our perspective, at least, is that when asked, are you going to look for the killer, the actual killers, nobody's interested in that. Now, they said, well, SLED should have found them. Well, if you represent, if I represent you in a criminal matter of this magnitude, I'm certainly going to hire some investigators to look. And if nothing else, I'm going to put out a bounty for information connected with the actual killers. Because that's something that would throw a wrench in the entire operation if, in fact, it's true that he's not guilty. just threw that to the side and worried about the appeal rather than dealing with the real hard fact that if he's innocent, the real killers are still out there and they're getting away with it.

Well, the defense made it very clear in their presser that it's not their job to find the real killer, even though they are representing the husband and the father of the two victims. Guys, our time here at the Colleton County Courthouse is coming to a close, as has this case. And let me tell you, this case, like every other case that I tried, takes a piece of you. Takes a piece of you for the rest of your life. I still remember victims I represented 10, 15 years ago. But today, I think thoughts are on the victims in this case, Maggie and Paul. That's my takeaway. At the end of the day and at the close of the case, after all the motions and the arguments and the evidence and the slideshow, It's about them.

They lost their lives in that kennel at Moselle, but their voices were heard through this jury. Thank you for being with us every step of the way. Nancy Grace, signing off from the Colleton County Courthouse. Goodbye, friend.