Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - MURDER DAD CHRIS WATTS BLAMES WIFE SHANNAN FOR NOT BEING LIKE HIS LATEST AFFAIR

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Shanann Rzucek never expects to fall in love with a man who sent her a random friend request, but two years later, she marries Chris Watts and moves from North Carolina to Colorado with her new husband. Just after celebrating their first anniversary, the couple welcomes baby Bella into the world, and she becomes a big sister to Celeste at two years old. Despite financial struggles, the family is incredibly happy to learn they are expecting a little boy and break the news to Shanann’s parents on a summer vacation to North Carolina. While Shanann Watts is in North Carolina with Bella and Celeste, Chris Watts makes his move on co-worker Nichol Kessinger. The pair has their first date just a week after Shanann left. Watts tells Kessinger he’s in the process of divorcing Shanann, and the relationship quickly becomes serious. Kessinger is even looking at wedding dresses! Cheryln Cadle, a grandmother of eleven who has only previously written short newspaper stories about true crime, feels an intense calling to reach out to Chris Watts—serving five consecutive life sentences for the murder of his pregnant wife and two little girls—and write a book about his story. Cadle is surprised to receive a letter back, knowing Watts receives hundreds of letters. When Cadle meets with Watts behind bars, he says he will not speak to her about the murders—but he will write letters about what really happened on August 13th. Watts writes to Cadle that he “never would have killed his family” if he hadn’t met Nikki, his Anadarko co-worker, Nichol Kessinger. Cadle says Watts was ‘mesmerized’ by Kessinger and felt she gave him a respect Shanann never did. Watts writes as his relationship with Kessinger grew, he actually contemplated killing his family for weeks. Even before his homicidal daydreams, Watts tries to end Shanann’s pregnancy by giving her oxycodone, because Nikki tells him she wanted to give him his first son. Watts addresses some of his letters to Shanann and the girls directly, discussing how badly it hurts that they’re gone. Watts often refers to them in the present tense, and Cadle observes Watts acts more like they died in an accident than that he murdered them. Cadle also notices Watts never once apologizes to them for what happened. Confronted with that omission, Watts tells Cadle he didn’t realize he never expressed his remorse and says he is sorry. Cadle says the few times Watts discusses the murders with her in person, his eyes turn almost black. Joining Nancy Grace today: Cheryln Cadle - CC Publishing, Author of “The Murders of Christopher Watts” and “The Many Faces of Christopher Watts: A 5-year Update”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We go behind bars and frequently into the mind of a murder dad, Chris Watts, including why he justifies murdering his wife and two little girls, actually blaming his pregnant wife Shanan for not being more like his latest sex affair, his latest mistress. Really? It's her fault. She's dead. Then how do you wrote Bella and Celestin to that? Long story short tonight, behind bars, and into the mind of Chris Watts, a place I thought I would never go. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. I'm concerned about a friend of mine. I dropped her off at her house at 2 in the morning last night because we were out of town together and we were on the way back to the airport issues and she's pregnant. And I haven't been able to get a friend for this morning. Did you tell your mother-in-law that she went to a friend's today?

Uh-huh. Yeah? Who's what friend? That's what she went to a friend's off, so that's all I'm in. Who was she supposed to go to? That's all she told me. I wear my sunglasses at night and indoors. Okay.

Did you see him going back and forth and back and forth? I'm just a trial lawyer, but I know that that's off. And with good reason, take a listen to this. My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He helped me un-snuggle too. He reads me books, he tied my shoes. If you're a hero, blue and blue, my daddy, daddy, I love you.

Shanan Roochek never expected to fall in love with a man who sent her a random friend request, but two years later, she married Chris Watts. Just after their first anniversary, the couple welcomes baby Bella, and she becomes a big sister to Celeste at two years old. Despite financial struggles, the family is incredibly happy to learn they are expecting a little boy and break the news to Shanan's parents on a summer vacation. Baby Nico was never born unless you count coffinbirth after Shanan Watts was murdered and placed in a shallow grave. Her body expelled baby boy Nico. This raised the first red flag of alarm.

because I'm concerned about a friend of mine. I dropped her off at her house at 2 in the morning last night because we were out of town together and we were on the way back from the airport. And she's pregnant. And I haven't been able to get a hold of her this morning. And I've gotten to her house and her car is there and stuff like that.

But she won't answer the door. She won't answer phone calls. She won't answer text messages. And I'm just really, really concerned. And she had a doctor's appointment this morning and she didn't go to it. and I'm just, I don't know what to do. I've called him and talked to him,

and he said that she went on a play date with her other two daughters, but, like, if she went on a play date, they're both in car seats. Why would she not take her car? Shanan's friend, rightfully disturbed, you know, that's called routine evidence, not stereotypical or normal evidence, evidence of a routine. Why would Shanan take her children on playdates

with their car seats, still in the back of her car. Shanan would never have done that. What more do we know? Listen. Pregnant Shanan Watts sets off again for a work trip with close friend Nicole Atkinson. Shanan confide her marriage has been strained, but she's hopeful to reconcile when she returns. The pair's flight is delayed, and Atkinson dropped Shanan off at home just before 2 a.m. Monday. Shanan has a 9 a.m. doctor's appointment, but the expectant mom misses it.

Watts says Shanan told him she was taking the girls to a play date when he left for work at 515, but he has no idea where Shanan or their children are. Well, what about that missed doctor's appointment? Shanan pregnant with baby Nico at the time, so rightfully, and SOP, standard operating procedure, they speak to Chris Watts, the husband. Any friends that you know she would be hanging out with? I mean, I know I guess her parents. are out of state across country North Carolina oh yeah so that's not happening

all they go is blankies they're gone um they're blankies they sleep with they don't leave anywhere without them good nothing else beers be missing though just stuff you'd take for a quick trip Not moving out. I mean, the last time talked to her was this morning, she said she was going to take the kids to a friend's house, and that's where she was going to be. And then I've texted her today and never heard anything, but the car's here.

Right. Unless somebody can't pick her up. But the people that I know, nobody's heard from her, nobody's seen. Am I just projecting, or can you tell he's lying right there? You know, I picked up a lot. If we could put that on mute and see the video again, you see Chris Watts leading the police along. They're trying to find his wife, his pregnant wife, Shanan.

Check out the closet that I noticed immediately. Everything is in perfect order. She wanted to give him the perfect home. She had designed it. She had painted it. Look how organized. She even has her husband's clothes. Color coordinated.

See the sports shirts on the end? Then you've got dark. Then you've got blue, then you've got plaid, orange, white. It goes on all the way around. She had in her mind the perfect home, the perfect marriage, the perfect family. Where does he fit in? Another thing, oh yeah, another thing that jumped out at me as he's walking through the home, he points out the baby's blankets are missing.

He knows exactly where those blankets are. They were with the children, Bella and Celeste. When he murdered them and he has a straight face, this guy can lie like a rug. So when we are judging someone's demeanor, you can really be fooled. This is Chris Watts, aka killer dad, but you've got to see this. this, the inevitable begging for their return.

Shannon, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back. If somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete with without anybody here.

Please bring her back. That's where our friends at Denver 7. That was his emotional plea for his wife to come home. for the unknown perpetrator to bring her back, that the house was not complete. That was your doing once. You're doing in such a horrific manner. Even the neighbor noticed his behavior was very odd, uncharacteristically odd, watch.

As a matter of a, if I, you just want to go talk to him, I'm going to get his info real quick. No. He never loads of stuff in and then out of the garage ever. Right. And it doesn't look like he came from that here because he came from down the street. To be completely honest with you, my wife and I were kind of wondering when she was on vacation if something happened because I've heard them full out screaming at each other at the top of their mom and he gets crazy. It's crazy.

Does he? And that's pretty recently. Yeah. And that's why she went and visited people because she wanted to get away from the situation. I love the neighbor. I want him to be my neighbor. So from his door cam, he could see what was happening at Shanan's home. She shared with Watts.

And he could see Watts loading things in and out of the car. He could see Shanan's car parked there. Now, he referred to her going out of town. She had gone out of Tamperi or two her murder. She was with her family in North Carolina with the two little girls. She did not leave the two little girls with daddy, took them with her. The neighbor noticing uncharacteristically odd behavior on the part of Chris Watts. But then there's more.

We waited the time we were told the mom called him again. He said he was still on it and to wait another 45 minutes. So he's just been in this false times and everything. We know he's been lying because his stories aren't going to have enough. Right. I tell everybody different stories. Because we have one story. She's with a friend right now.

And then there's another story. She's on a play a day with her kids with another friend. And then she left him in the middle of night. So he told us three different stories. Now that's the son of Shanan's best friend, Nicole Atkinson, speaking. Now, I've always believed and observed that, if your story gets embellished, like you add facts to it, that's totally understandable. Maybe you were not asked the right questions. Maybe you remembered something in addition,

like, hey, now I remember X. But when your story changes, that is a problem, all right? You're hearing Nicole Atkinson's son describe how Chris Watts' story was changing. That's a big red flag. and then, of course, it culminates here. We have been able to recover a body that we're quite certain is Shanan Watts' body. We have strong reason to believe that we know where the bodies of the children are and recovery efforts are in process on that.

That's where our friends at ABC 11, her body recovered and recovered in a horrible way. pregnant shenan was found buried in a shallow grave. I told you earlier that she then, baby Nico was born by coffinbirth. Her body expelled her only son. She had Bella and Celeste, her two little girls. Not far from that shallow grave, Bella and Celeste, these two babies were found, forced, their bodies forced into oil drums, long cylindrical drums, and their bodies decomposed

in that liquid, not far from where mommy was buried. Now, of course, Watts was then questioned. Listen to what he had to say and watch his demeanor. You have to trust me that when I tell you that these two beautiful girls are right here, I did nothing to them. And to my beautiful wife, I did nothing to her. Like, you have to trust me and believe me. Like, I know you don't know me as a person.

You've known me for like two and a half, three hours. And I don't know what your opinion is. But you have to realize that these two beautiful girls right here and my wife, I had nothing to do with the disappearance. Like, they vanished. They were taken. Someone has taken them. They're safe somewhere.

We don't know. I had nothing to do with this act of evil cruelty, whatever has happened here. Because my love for these two girls and my wife, like, I don't want anything to happen to them. I've never

wanted anything to happen to them. Like, I need them, I want them just to run through that front door and just grab me or just bear up, tackle me, knock me to the floor, bust my head up, I don't care. The amount of love I have for my family is exponentially. and it's never going to die.

And they need, I want that back. Okay. I have to have it back. Mm-hmm. Listen. I don't think anything I could happen the last thing I ever do it, but I did.

I know. Keep going. She used me of it. I denied it. I, and she just aren't her enough to have a horrible for it. Like, she was pregnant. And it was, I don't want to...

I didn't hurt her. I cheated on her emotionally. I cheated on her. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Listen. Well, then. She hurt. Huh?

She hurt. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm telling her. Oh, now? She's all right? She started her and she started her and she started her begins. Oh, my stars. Not only does he murder her, he then blames her, that she then blames her, that she is the bad person. there's a tiny bit more listen and then what happened

I looked at her and I just come on top of her and you got to talk to the same thing okay did you have to knock her down no she was already on the ground

I was like I just pulled her off on the bed and all kind of one moved in okay so it's not as though yeah I didn't hold her out you know like I went up and pulled her down and I did that I didn't know

I lost it. Sure. Okay. So you're an ammo flame on the ground? On the bed? On the bed. Yeah, like, when she was on top of the she was, that's all of what's happening. I pulled her and went down off the on the bed.

Okay. I try to get it full, clean, you know? I think it's a, probably a queen of some sort. Okay. I'll pick for it some more. And then finally. And the babies are gone. And I put my hands around my wife's neck and did that same thing.

Did Shannan fight back at all? You did that? The raises I had after seeing that, I... Not much. So you know she in with her dead Joining me right now is a very special guest that I've wanted to speak to again for a very long time

Cheryl Lynn Cato the author of The Murders of Christopher Watts and the many faces of Christopher Watts a five-year update Helen, thank you for being with us. What led you to speak to Chris Watts? Well, just as you saw him on the front porch that morning, it seemed more like he was trying to not laugh. And I told my husband, there's a lot here to uncover, and I'm going to write this man, and I want to write a book about him. I felt very led to do so. I, I felt very led to do so. I

I just felt like it was meant to be. And so I did write him, and he responded and accepted my proposal to write a book. Wow. I've never been interested in hearing what he had to say. But I'm curious. The way I would be curious, like looking at a spider under a glass case, I'm curious in that way, like when you go to the, snake house at the zoo. So I'm very curious what Chris Watts had to say. Tell me everything.

Start at the beginning. Well, the very beginning was he wanted to clear his wife's name. So he was he was willing to speak with me. He invited me to come to the prison. Actually, his mother was very much pushing for it, and I think it's because they thought they could control the narrative of a grandmother that they thought was someone that they could control, that he could control. So I went to the prison, and I sat with him the first day for five hours as he poured out everything that had happened. But telling me there was some things that he couldn't tell me face-to-face, but he would write them to me in a letter. He said that there were guards listening

and that type of thing. And I don't know why he was trying to protect at that point. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And now that's curious. He didn't want to talk because guards were listening. What would that have to do with him telling the truth? Just because a guard was listening. Right, exactly.

But this is a man who wants people to think that he is the good boy next door. That's the way he came off to everyone. And he's a monster, absolutely a monster in sheep's clothing. When I went to the prison to meet with him, he just acted like the nicest guy. And would hang his head not look me straight in the eye. I could tell you it's very ashamed. At one point I said, Christopher, look at me. Stop looking down.

Look at me. When you talk to me, I want you to look at me. Well, he was lying so much, I realized later. Because he was blaming what he did on other things. So we, from there, he started writing me letters, many letters, 12-page letters. And he, one of the things he was trying to hide is the morning that he killed Shanan. He, the girls were still alive. As he was rolling Shanan off of the bed and wrapping her in a sheet,

Bella walked in the bedroom and said, what's wrong with Mommy? What's happened? And he told her that mommy was sick and they were going to take her to the hospital. But he was mortified that that child woke up, as he put it. Not far behind her was Cece. Cece was stumbling. My opinion, she may have had a little bit of brain damage from where he had smothered them

and thought that he had completed the job. It takes more than a couple of minutes to do that. and I think he stopped too soon. Wow. One of the most horrible things that can be imagined is he put those two baby girls in the backseat of his truck. Bella asking why they weren't in a car seat or a seat belt and him telling them it was okay.

It would be okay this time. He laid Shanan across the bottom of the floorboard of that truck under the girl's feet. and the girls kept saying something stinks daddy something smells what's wrong what's wrong with mommy he took them to the oil field where he had them wait while he rolled shenan out onto the ground he pulled her over away from the truck and he buried her where those baby girls could watch

if you can even imagine. As he rolled Shanan over, he noticed that Nico had been born and he was like amazed of what had just happened. He went back

to the truck. He smothered Cece, he said, first. And then he smothered Bella. Well, first, when he smothered Cece, he said he took her up to the oil battery and put her in, but he put her in an eight-inch hole. Now, if you think of ordering an individual pizza, it's about eight inches around. And he put her in this eight-inch hole, and he had

to stomp her in. He couldn't just drop her in. He had to stomp her in, and he heard the splash as her body hit the oil. Then he went back to the truck, and Cece said, Daddy, you're not going to do the same thing to me that you did to Bella, are you? But he took that child, and he put a blanket over her head, and he smothered her, and she fought him. She may have only been four, but that child quite. him with everything she had and it has still made me wonder to this day if CC may or I'm sorry if Bella may have been alive when he dropped her in that

oil battery because she had tearing in her mouth she had bruises it kept me awake at night Nancy it is the most horrible thing of things of what he could have possibly done to his own flesh and blood. And the reasons why he did it are even more horrible. And he pulled away listening to a song by Metallica. And I just... Okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. Cherylyn Cato, he pulled away.

You mean drove away in his car. car listening to Metallica? Yes. Yes. What is his demeanor as he's telling you this, or was this in the letters? Some was in the letters and some was in person. In person, he could not tell me that they woke back up. But he said in the letters that he didn't know what else to do with their bodies. At that point, he was afraid they were going to wake back up again. He thought, according to him, that it was a spiritual thing that they woke back up and he had to kill them the second time. He did not look at it as he just fumbled the murder the first time. So he was afraid they would wake back up. I don't understand that. How did he think

them reviving was a, quote, spiritual thing? Demonic? I mean, what is he talking? about yeah he thought it was demon he thought he thought he thought that there was a some sort of a darkness over him that made him kill chinan and the girls something that he had been dealing with for a couple of weeks when in fact those couple of weeks were his planning stage he he would dream daydream about how he was going to kill them he knew the night that he put those girls to bed he says in a letter to me, I knew that was the last night, I would be tucking my babies in. He knew they would never wake up again and carry on another day. And so he waited for Shanan to whey her. He surprised her with the way that he treated her. He had sex with her before

he murdered her. When he's talking to you and dive, Involging these details, what is his demeanor? He didn't want to look at me. He was acting, and I want to emphasize acting, that he was remorseful, telling me about how he's having nightmares in prison, how Cece is visiting him in prison, and he thought that she knocked off some papers off of a tape, right next to him and he jumped because he was afraid she was going to the table was going to

fall on top of her and hurt her really so his demeanor was as a concerned dad as I'm you know I can't believe I did what I did but it was so fake just like the porch you know I find all of this so hypocritical. I mean, he's got the children's pictures up on his wall in his jail cell. But he was of sane mind at the time he murdered them. In fact, isn't it true Sherilyn Catole, that he murdered Shanan and Bella and Celeste and Baby Nico because he wanted to be with another woman. And the entire time, Shanan was visiting her family in North Carolina, he used that opportunity to hit on a co-worker.

Exactly. And they had a six-week affair up to the date that Shanan came home. And he didn't want to let go of her. He didn't want to go back to his real life and give up his girlfriend. But now, after my husband. murdering his family and being found guilty of everything and or he admitted to it. He then turned to blame his girlfriend that she was dark and somehow she transferred this evil, dark spirit onto him, which made him kill his family.

Just another way of blaming. One thing I wanted to say because we see him so fidgeting, and everything on the videos with the neighbor's house and talking to the police. He told me he never considered, never gave one thought that he would ever be caught. He thought he was so smart that he could literally pull this off and never be caught. And he could go off and have his life with his girlfriend and everything would just be wonderful. Yeah, that's a monster. That's a real monster.

When he would talk to you, Sherilyn, what was your impression of him? Because I find that really not only interesting, like I said, studying a rattlesnake, but I find it probative. In other words, it proves something to me that he was so arrogant that he believed he would never be caught, that he can manipulate everyone. The girlfriend, well, the media. girlfriends he had, his wife, his children, his own family, the justice system, his co-workers. I mean, he's been hooking up with women for, you know, one-night stands forever.

Right, right. And Christopher is good-looking. He was. At one time, he was good-looking. I believe that this crime has eaten him. He's not as good-looking as he used to be. But he's a good-looking man and he comes across very sweet. He was very gallant in the way he even treated me. He was very kind. He wanted me to just feel that he was the good boy next door. And he took on a role with me almost that I was a mother figure to him. And he would tell me that because I mean I went into it at 60 years old, I had no intentions of any kind of a romance, and I've made that up front in my letter. That's not what my letter was about. And I find it interesting that he has a lot of issues from growing up that he may think is okay, but I would be very concerned if my son had those kind of issues.

What kind of issues? Well, he would go into the bathroom at home, and his mother told me this. He would go into the bathroom at home, and she would hear him crying and saying, oh, God, please forgive me, please forgive me, please forgive me for what I did, please forgive me. She said that she would ask him about it that, and he wouldn't answer her. And so she decided to leave him alone because she felt like he had his right to moments of privacy. Well, that is far beyond privacy. That was sick. Something had happened.

Something a 12-year-old boy was in the house. I don't know so much that something happened or that he did something. Sounds to me that he did something that he was anxious to be forgiven. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And so he would do things like that. And he was very much kind of a loner. He did have a friend that he grew up with that lived close by to them or next door or something.

But I think there was a lot of dark things in his childhood that he did. And I don't think it was killing the cat down the street. I think there was some things that he did. He told me once in the jail that there was some things he would take to his grave. that he would never talk about one of those things. Oh, my star, whoa, whoa, hold on. My head just blew off. Let me attach it.

He's murdered his pregnant wife, the unborn baby, his two daughters, Bella and Celeste. But there's something so bad he won't tell you. Yes, and that was one of those things happened during the surrounding the murders. I would question him about different things. I think the thing that he wouldn't talk about that he was going to take to his grave, I think it had to do with the fact that he gave Shanan a heavy dose of oxycodone. When he had met up with her at her family's house in South Carolina, he spent the night, the first night at the house there with the family.

And he so wanted to get rid of the unborn baby that he gave Shanan. He made her a shake and he put oxycodone in that shape, thinking that it would cause her to miscarry. The poor girl drank it unaware of what he was doing to her, and it made her very violently ill. She threw up all night. He couldn't even console her. He allowed her to literally sleep in the bathroom with her head on the toilet, vomiting and sick. Her brother had to come in and help console her. She was so sick, but she did not lose her baby.

I believe that one of the things that he will take to his grave with him is who gave him that oxycodone. He wouldn't tell me. Okay, hold on just a moment. Hold on. So disagree. and I admit that you're the expert because you've had all these conversations with him, but he would sell anybody down the river. He's now blaming Shanan.

She was the problem. She was a control freak. He's blaming the girlfriend. It's all her fault. She was a, quote, dark spirit like cult mom, Lori Valo said. He blames everybody else for everything. I think it's something much worse than who gave him the Oxycontin that he slipped into her drink to kill the baby and maybe her.

I don't think that's it. He would sell out anybody and their mother. I think it's something worse than that, something he did to Shanan or the girls or to their bodies, something that's so horrible, he won't confess it. Now let's just let our minds follow that through

to its logical conclusion. Right, right. And I have wondered if the girls were alive when they hit that water. that has been because it's he was a time crunch getting out of there you know he had to appear like everything was okay at work at eight o'clock and so it took time to smother those girls it took time to walk them up those battery steps if you've seen a picture of them they're huge they're huge they're tall up in the air

So were they alive? So he had sex with Shanan right before he killed her. I wonder if rape kits were done on Bella and Celeste. I wonder if he, let me just say euphemistically, tampered with Shanan's body post-mortem. Whatever it is has got to be something that's so horrible he can't bring himself to state it. And I don't know what could be more horrible than what we already know he did, what he's confessed to.

Right. Question, how is he twisting this around and making this all Shanan's fault? Shanan was an accomplished woman in her own rights. She sold a company Thrive that she worked for, and she was very successful. They gave her a car allowance for a new Lexus. When she would go to the large campaigns that they have every year, she won awards. She had something like 400,000 people under her.

She was very accomplished woman. And she liked to spend money. She liked to impress. They lived in a huge home. she made him look very little in his eyes he felt like she made him look little he told me that she would okay wait wait what how how does her working her fingers to the bone and creating this beautiful home that she artfully designed i've looked at every room that she designed she painted she furnished now how does she makes the money she brings home the money she takes care of the

children she designs the home she cleans the home what how does she make him look small I thought you can only do that all on your own that's only in his eyes not in I don't believe Shanan felt that way about him I don't I know for bad because in laws did not feel that way about him but he had to have some way to blame all this. See, they went on trips. It shows right here you're looking at them at a beach. That trip was furnished by her, by her company that she worked for. She earned those things. And he had a job, a decent job, but he only made $60,000 a year. She made twice what he made. And he felt belittled, he said, by her. She was very...

Oh, but he didn't mind spending her money, did he? somebody had to pay for all those motels he shacked up in yeah that's all the dinners he took his girlfriend to and the gifts that he bought her that's right uh yes and and so shenan was like you said working her fingers to the bone the girl worked day and night uh to do what she uh accomplished and yet he would say that she was just you know just onto him all the time and you know just whatever he could to blame her for everything. Yeah, because she probably knew he was cheating or at least suspected. Look, you can't have a house that beautiful that you design and you keep neat as a pen

and not look at your husband's credit cards when he doesn't show up for supper. Right, right. Isn't that why we all have Live 360? Yes, right. Yeah, no, no. She was blindsided in the beginning, I believe. She trusted him because she was so busy. I don't think she had time to follow him around and see what he was doing.

And so in the beginning, I think she was very trusting. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cheryl in? Yes. I want to throw something at you. I mean, I know you're not a shrink, but I'm just thinking about her. and I admire her well she's beautiful

and she always is so put together and she's trying so hard to get that hallmark family and home and keep it perfect and beautiful and she has to wonder what's wrong with me why is he not coming home at night why is he

at the do drop him motel. I mean, she had to be suspicious, and that probably manifested by her being, quote, on him. Like, what are you doing? Where have you been? And I'm sure he resented that. But this beautiful woman on the end, not her, I'm talking about Shanan. That's one of his many, many girlfriends, her, Shanan. She was always feeling like she was overweight, like she wasn't pretty enough. Like she wasn't exciting and funny and witty and blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank because of him. Right, right. He didn't do anything to feed her ego, but he wanted his fed well.

And he went to the gym and he lost weight and he buffed up and she had to have known something's going on here because she was a smart girl. She wasn't just, you know, she wasn't stupid by any means. And so, I mean, we all have things about us that we wish we look different or we were weighed loves. What is wrong with men? I don't get it. I just, I do not get it. Of course, I guess you could say the same thing about some women, but they've got it all. If you can't be happy with her and the beautiful girls and the baby boy and the picture perfect home and the perfect neighborhood. I mean, what does it take? I don't know. I don't know. What does it take? That's everybody's dream. But listen to this. I'm quoting from Sherilyn Catole's book. Now she's got two of them.

I know if Nikki and I were going to be together, I had to kill all of them. That's a quote from the murders of Christopher Watts. It was all to be with another woman. Hadn't he ever heard of divorce? Yes. Think of that. And the other woman, I don't know anything about her,

but... Shanan was, in my opinion, far more what he should want. I mean, he built a life with her. Why do people always cheat down? Yeah, exactly. Cheat down. Cheat down, that's a good one, yes, definitely. I mean, look at Shanan. She's beautiful. She's laughing. She's, she's got a wonderful

personality. She treated people so well. People loved her. She had a huge group of friends. I don't understand at all. I don't understand why he would not be happy with what he had. He tries to blame it on anger, that I was so angry I would have killed anything. Like anger is some type of a beast that did the deed. It was him that did the deed. Did he ever shed a tear? Never. Never did he shed a tear. And here's another thing. And I asked him about this point blank, because I said, it seems like that this monster in you, that whatever it was that you were having to go to the bathroom

and pray for forgiveness, and this didn't happen just once, this is something that happened on a kind of a regular basis that his mother could hear him as a child. I said, it seems to me like there was a monster inside of you, and it was boiling and boiling, and it had to come out. And that's why. you killed Shanan is because that monster just had to come out. I don't know what you think of that, but it's like something in there,

and it wasn't caused by Shan, that monster inside of him. You know, you mentioned that when he left the disposal scene, which is a really euphemistic way to put what he did to Bella and Celeste, Shanan and Nico, that he was playing Metallica. What he was playing was a Metallica song, battery battery and some of the lyrics are

pounding out aggression turns into obsession cannot kill the battery cannot kill the family that's he knew exactly what he was doing

and the motive was to be with another woman who would probably start cheating on the moment he could yes what is your takeaway of Chris Watts and the books are amazing the murders of Christopher Watts

and the many faces of Christopher Watts a five-year update what's your takeaway that you can give us all of these women that are that are writing to him and sending him

love letters and sending him money through the mail that has overloaded his commissary my takeaway is that there's something in him that he thinks he can just woo any woman and woman beware because let me tell you anyone that has that personality i would definitely be very careful of there i don't think that there is a man or a woman alive that is willing to kiss your feet that much, to woo you that much and not just be themselves. But these women,

they want to marry him. They want to support him. They want to visit with him. They want to talk to him on the phone. Oh my gosh. My takeaway is just beware. Women beware. You know, you mentioned that he was good looking. I've never once found him good looking. Even before I knew for sure he murdered Shanan because he doesn't have a kind face, you know? No, this why am I seeing him without a shirt on? Why are you doing that to me? I don't want to see his body. He's yuck. You know what? Control room showing me that. You might as well show me a picture of a coral snake or anaconda or a poisonous spider. That's how I view him. I've never once seen a kind look in his eyes.

I mean, he may smile, but there's something cold in his eyes. You know, when my husband smiles, his eyes smile too. Yes. It's just like my dad and my mom. Their eyes smile. His eyes always look cold to me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's so many women think that he's good looking to the points

that all these women that have written him. Nancy, they send him money in the money. male. He has a fan club. It's unbelievable. The fan clubs that he has and the people that believe that he didn't really do this or it was more caused by Shanan. Oh my stars. He confessed. And people still believe he didn't do it. Yes. Yes. People still believe he did not do it. What an artful deceiver he is. You know, that's what the devil is often called. The Deceiver. The deceiver. That's what he is. You know what? Just to irritate Chris Watts, I'm going to close our time together for now anyway, and I hope we meet again. Your books are

amazing, and you work so hard and so meticulously to do this. And thank heaven, you didn't fall for that P.O.C. Chris Watts, the murders of Christopher Watts and the many faces of Christopher Watts, a five-year update. Now to irritate Christopher Watts, I'm going to close out, remembering someone decent and good and true. An American hero, Corporal Michael Roberts, Tampa PD, shot in the line of duty after 11 years of serving others, leaving behind a grieving wife, Cynthia, and a lonely son, Adam, American hero, Corporal Michael Roberts. Rest in peace. Nancy Gray signing off. Goodbye, friend.