Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Murder mastermind or misunderstood best friend? Real estate mogul Robert Durst on trial for the murder of Susan Berman.

Episode Date: February 21, 2020

It's been nearly five years since real estate heir Robert Durst was charged for the  murder of his college best friend. Susan Berman was found shot execution-style in the back of the head in her Los Angeles home 20 years ago. But this is not the first murder connected to the billionaire. His first wife, Kathleen McCormack Durst, vanished in upstate New York in 1982. She has never been found. Durst was also acquitted in the 2001 murder and dismemberment of his Texas neighbor, 71-year-old Morris Black. Durst's trial has just begun.   Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author "Seattles Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant" www.cloydsteiger.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, www.drbethanymarshall.com Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. What really happened to Susan Berman? Was she murdered execution style because she knew the truth of Robert Durst's wife, her disappearance, and I have gone to her home, her neighborhood. And let me tell you, people there have no doubt what happened to her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. They found her face down in her bedroom, and there was a single bullet shot to the back of the head.

There is no way on earth that Susan Berman let a stranger into her house that night. She was shot from behind while walking into a back room of the house. She had to trust that person when I first heard about what had happened that yes it had to be somebody that that we knew that she knew at least Bob Durst Bob Durst tying up some loose ends, killing his best friend to save himself. That's cold.

That's cold. Wow. That is from True TV, power, privilege, and justice. With me, an all-star panel, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, Red Flags at WendyPatrickPhD.com. Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, including homicide. Author, Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer. Gary Jean Grant at CloydSteiger.com.

Renowned forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. Psychoanalysts joining us out of Beverly Hills. They got a lot of problems, no offense, at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall with us, but right now, to crimeonline.com investigative reporter.

Crime Online, where you can find this and all other breaking justice and crime news as it happens. Levi Page, let's just start. You know what? I don't want to start at the beginning with Kathy. Kathy Durst. Dead. I think rolled up in a rug. Her body likely dumped into the waters. Let's start with Susan Berman. There's just so many places to start. Or wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Or should I start with Mr. Black? Do you remember him?

That's another of Robert Durst's victims. Remember when Robert Durst was caught dressed as a woman? I'm not judging. Not judging at all. Don't care what he had on. Couldn't care less, as long as he didn't raid my closet. In like a convenience store, shopping something like this it's not this but something like a roast beef sandwich okay I try not to eat the food at the gas station there's

just something wrong I guess some people don't mind eating their food sitting outside inhaling the gasoline fumes and diesel but he got caught shoplifting and then it all unfolded as i recall and then the poor old 76 year old neighbor's head was found by a little boy fishing out galveston bay that's how i remember i think his name was maxwell black sorry no disrespect to the dead morris black levi page let's just forget about the head in galveston because robert durst got let off by a jury on that they believed he dismembered the old man in self-defense okay let that sink in let's start with susan berman tee it up levi so nancy susan berman just so everybody knows who she is, she met Robert Durst in college.

They both attended University of California at Berkeley. And Durst dropped out, but Berman got her master's degree in journalism. They were best friends in college. Wait, you just told me something I didn't know. Okay, now wait a minute. Where did they go to college? UC Berkeley. You know, that's not as easy to get in as you may think it is.

That's kind of hard. All the California colleges, I mean, look what Lori Loughlin is accused of doing to get her kids into USC. So they're at Berkeley and he drops out. I'd like to know what he was studying, but he drops out. She goes on to get her master's. Interesting. Interesting that a brainiac like her hung out with the dropout, not judging. Go ahead. And she got her master's in journalism and she tried to become a journalist. She wrote a book about her father who was in the mob. His name was Davey the Jew Berman from Vegas. She wrote a book and she had planned to turn this book into a movie. But Nancy, that never came to fruition. She moved to Los Angeles. She tried and tried to get this book made into a movie. It never happened. She was broke. She had a trust fund, but she blew through

the trust fund, blew through the money from the book. And Robert Durst had been giving her money. He was connected to a real estate empire from New York, and he was giving her money, Nancy. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Levi, Levi, Levi, you got me drinking from a fire hydrant again. Let's just pause. Let's just pause. See, everything you're telling me is valuable to me. Every sentence.

I want to stop you because so much of what you're saying is significant. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, I kid her by saying to the stars. But Dr. Bethany Marshall, let me be serious for a moment. Did you hear what Levi just said? Robert, a real estate magnate, a mogul, he and his family had everything handed to them on a silver platter. I'm not jealous. True, I grew up on a red dirt road with a well dug in the backyard by my grandfather. But I was so happy and frankly still am, knock on wood. So I don't begrudge them that. But what I'm saying is it gives you a different mindset and view of the world. Everything is attainable.

Everything. And you think in a different way. I think your values are different. And not judging, not saying they're any better or worse than anybody else's. It's just a different mindset, Dr. Bethany. You know, Nancy, absolutely. Not only is it a different mindset, meaning he may have grown up in an environment the world was his oyster he could obtain anything there were no limits think about the fact that he

dropped out of UC Berkeley he was not worried about earning money or supporting himself and you know the requirement to work and to support one's own life is such an important precursor to good mental health. We all have to support ourselves. And when you grow up in an environment where that is not a requirement, where somebody else is not only are they supporting your life through childhood, but you will be supported financially for the rest of your life, that dramatically changes your mindset. And also, he was supporting Berman financially, which means that money didn't really mean much to him until he was giving it away. People who have a lot of money don't think much of it until somebody else wants it. And then they can be notoriously cheap. You know, the studies that people who have

less money are more generous. People who have more money are more stingy, and also he had endless resources to commit whatever crimes he wanted to commit in his life. I want to hear Susan Berman speaking to our friends at CBS. Murder victim, confidant of Robert Durst. Did she know exactly what happened to Durst's wife? My father, Davy Berman, who worked for Meyer Lansky and Frank Costello in Murder Incorporated, he came out of Sing Sing, I believe it was the end of the 30s. Lansky and Costello gave him a choice, what city do you want to run and we'll give you a million dollars? And he said, I just want train fare to Minneapolis and I want

to run the rackets in the Twin Cities. This, of course, is before gambling was legal. My father's only skill was gambling. So he went to the Twin Cities." This, of course, was before gambling was legal. My father's only skill was gambling. So he went to the Twin Cities. In that time, it was wide open, even though the police were paid off. This was the end of the 30s, the early 40s. And he ran Minneapolis for many years, and he was very, very good about it and good at it. And then he went to the war.

He volunteered for service. He came back a war hero in 1945. And Ben Siegel said to him, I have this fabulous idea. I've talked Meyer Lansky into putting our money into Las Vegas, taking some money out of Cuba. So in 1945, when I was two months old, we came to join my father. At that time he was partner in three downtown clubs in downtown Las Vegas. The Las Vegas Club, the El Dorado and the Apache. And Ben Siegel wanted him to go into partners. They were all part of Lansky's group,

but there were many competing divisions. Because of Ben Siegel's temper, my father always said, beware of a man with a terrible temper. He was his best friend, but he didn't want to be partners with him. But in 1946, Meyer Lansky talked my father into taking a partnership in the Flamingo.

I grew up in the center of the world, in my opinion. Of course, as a child, it seemed glamorous, and it seemed like we were very important, and our town was, because everyone came to Las Vegas. The end of the 40s, the early 50s, Las Vegas was like Monte Carlo in the United States, and my father was always saying, "'Oh, look, there's a king.'

It was from Thailand or something, or, "'There's a count.'" I thought it was the most glamorous city in the world, and all things seemed possible. Celebrities, of course, came to our house since my father owned the hotel. My father was kind of, they said, the Henry Kissinger of Vegas. He was very diplomatic, and he was the one that worked out all the, you know, arguments between everyone else. He was silent partner in all seven hotels when he died in 1957, so we were in the hotels constantly. My father was the boss. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Breaking news. Robert Durst, a New York real estate mogul whose life was detailed in an HBO series, has been ordered to stand trial for murder. Durst is charged with killing his friend Susan Berman 18 years ago at her home in Benedict Canyon. Prosecutors say he did it due to a renewed investigation about the disappearance of his first wife. He remains in jail without bail.

The HBO show The Jinx looked into the disappearance of his wife and Berman's murder, and Durst was caught saying that he had killed them all. Killed them all and maybe more, according to confidants of real estate millionaire Robert Durst. That's our friends at ABC7 LA. How many people did Robert Durst murder and why? With me, an all-star panel, Wendy Patrick, Lloyd Steiger, Joseph Scott Morgan, Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Levi Page. Will he ever be convicted to Levi Page?

Back to the way that Susan Berman, who we were just listening to about her childhood, growing up in the casinos with her dad in charge, running multiple casinos, the life she led. Then she collides with Robert Durst at Berkeley. He drops out. She keeps going, gets her master's. Tell me, I know you say she was a failed journalist. I don't necessarily see her as failed at anything, but she and Durst remained friends till the very end when she turns up dead. Tell me about the scenario of Susan Berman's body being discovered. So Nancy, the police got a note and it was to the Beverly Hills Police Department and it said cadaver with her address. They went to the home and they found her dead. She had been shot in the back of the head, execution style. They believe around

Christmas Eve in the year 2000. They discovered her body 10 days after she had been shot. So she had been laying in her house dead for 10 days. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University and author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. I'll let that sink in, and author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. I'll let that sink in for a moment. Blood Beneath My Feet. Okay. How do they know, Joseph Scott Morgan, that she had been lying there for 10 days?

My suspicion is, Nancy, is that she had been probably in a moderate state of decomposition by that point in time. And we can, in forensics, we can actually put parameters on our markers on how long someone has been dead based upon how advanced their changes after death are. So that helps us to establish a timeline. And in a case like this, where essentially the police have no suspects, that is essential because we can go back in marking time when this possibly happened. You can't make it, you can't make it an absolute, but at least it's a place to start. Justice Scott Morgan, isn't it true that medical examiners look not just at the body, but extrinsic evidence in order to make their decision? I'd like to imagine they can look at a body and magically determine so many things like the last moment they breathed air,

but they also look at, for instance, the last sighting of the person, the last email, the last phone message, the last text. They look at the last time they ate. They track the food through the body. That's why we have a fleet of medical examiner investigators that go to the scene and develop forensic evidence to determine a timeline, true or false. Yes, that is true, Nancy. Now, I want you to take a listen. This is called the bathroom audio. You know, those of us in broadcasting know that when you're mic'd up, somebody somewhere in some dark little control room that you don't even know where it is, hears everything that you say. We see that come out over and over in the media when somebody's

busted saying something they wish you didn't know about. That's what happened when Robert Durst agreed to a sit-down conversation with HBO when they were filming The Jinx, The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst. Now, they were questioning him about Susan Berman. Listen to what he was caught saying as he went for a TT break. There may be difficulty with the questions. I killed Rachel. Killed them all. Of course. I'm having difficulty with the question, I killed them all, of course.

Wow. Cloyd Steiger joining me, 22 years homicide detective, author of Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. Cloyd, what an idiot. Or is he? You know, some would argue he subconsciously wanted the world to know. I don't buy into that. I think he was just an idiot. Yeah, well, you know, that's what is gifts to people like me, is people when they're very cocky and confident,

and he's an entitled guy, and then he makes a stupid mistake like that and basically makes an admission against interest that he killed them all and says it out loud. I mean, that gift wrapped to the detectives and the prosecutor. To Wendy Patchett, California prosecutor, author, red flags. Wendy, weigh in. You know, one of those things about one of the pesky things about confessions is you have to prove that that's exactly what it was. Not somebody speaking off the cuff, role-playing all of the excuses and defenses, Nancy, you and I. Whoa, wait, wait. Role-playing alone in the bathroom while you're unzipping your pants and TTing?

Role-playing what? I have tried so many cases, Nancy. I have heard it all. And even scarier than that, I have heard jurors say, how can you believe that something somebody says in private is a confession? Why would they make a confession to themselves? These are the kinds of defenses I would already anticipate as a prosecutor. But I'll tell you, playing the other side of the coin, I think it's powerful evidence of really kind of rethinking, rehashing, what is this guy doing, giving this interview to begin with, and then following it

up with almost some talking to yourself about what just happened so now we've got the corpus plus a confession now we've got a case so it's highly significant i just want to point out that sadly there are two sides to every story as far as what a jury is going to hear man you are so right about that to dr bethany marshall psychoanalyst i don't know how you're going to twist this around in your psychoanalyst way. Okay, hit me. What do you make of what Robert Durst said, still mic'd up, gone on a bathroom break from the HBO series, The Jinx, stating, quote, what the hell did I do? What the hell did I do? Kill them all, of course. He mumbles to himself, unaware he's actually being recorded to himself, unaware he's actually being recorded still while he's in the bathroom. While the toilet's flushing, right?

Yes, that was the problem. No, that's the problem. He didn't flush loud enough, loudly enough. You know, Nancy, one of the things we see with sociopaths is that they have a very shallow emotional life. And that's why they do so many weird, kooky, thrill-seeking kinds of things, like him dressing up like a deaf, mute old lady. You know, strange things that, you know, I think are adding some color to his day because he doesn't have much else to do with himself. So the fact that he went on the jinx and he gave these interviews is a testimony to his shallow emotional life, meaning that he didn't have much else going on. He didn't think anything bad would come of it. And that's the grandiosity too, right? When you're grandiose, when you sit at the right hand of God, you never think you're going to get in trouble.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, hold on, Missy. Please don't drag God into this. That's the last thing I need. I'm pretty sure he's already mad at me. I don't know that for sure. But please don't drag him and put him in the same sentence as Robert Durst. Okay, pick it up. Well, and then the thing with sociopaths, because they lack conscience, and we see our FMRI brain imaging, that the part of the brain that's responsible for empathy is very atrophied. So they don't really have a sense of what other people are going to think and feel about them. That's why they kill so casually. They have no remorse. They have no empathy. But that same quality leads them to have lack of big picture

thinking, lack of cause and effect thinking. They think that they will never get into trouble for their actions. So if any normal person killed people, that's an oxymoron. Anybody who gets in trouble, if I get in trouble, if I'm speeding, I'm afraid the police officer will pull me, will track me down. But a sociopath is not going to be afraid that anybody's going to think anything about their actions. So that's why he said that in the bathroom. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He said, I guess to you, you know, that I think of myself as someone who was born with a burden that I couldn't carry.

Well, I said to him, you know, some people say that you are the unluckiest guy in the world because you lost your beloved wife, you lost your best friend in Los Angeles, and you lost your neighbor who is your good friend, your elderly across the hall neighbor in Galveston, Texas. And other people say you're the luckiest guy in the world because you killed your wife, you killed your best friend, you killed your neighbor, and you got away with it. Wow. You're hearing filmmaker Andrew Turek of HBO's The Jinx, telling Durst everything he's managed to get away with, but is his day of reckoning finally here? The multi-million dollar real estate heir on trial in LA for the 2000 murder of his closest friend, Susan Berman. Back to the facts, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Tell me why we think Berman was murdered by Robert Durst. Okay, so Nancy, the police, 10 days after they believed she was killed, got a letter in the

mail, and it was addressed to the Beverly Hills Police Department. And what is so weird, and it said cadaver, and it had Susan Berman's address. And what is so weird is that Beverly Hills was spelled incorrectly. It was spelled B-E-V-E-R-L-E-Y Hills with an extra E after the L. And they found letters that Robert Durst had wrote in the past to Susan Berman and he had spelled it wrong in that same way. Furthermore, they had also looked at his handwriting, and he does not use lowercase letters when he writes. Everything is in all caps. Both of those letters were written in all caps.

Wow. You know what? I've done a lot of handwriting analysis. My first was on a bank robber who was dyslexic, and he wrote, don't touch the L-R- this is a Robey L-RAM he reversed R and A he messed up Robey and throughout his handwriting example his exemplar he obviously had heard of punctuation he knew it existed but that was pretty much it. He would say, don't, touch, period, the, row, B, comma. This period is A, comma, row, B, period, comma.

When he did his handwriting exemplar, that was the bank robbery note. When he did the exemplar, he did the same thing. He put in commas and periods all throughout everything he wrote. It was incredible. So here, Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, we see not only the same handwriting itself, but we see the same mode of all caps and misspellings. It's like a dental x-ray. You see all the same cavities. Yeah. And what's fascinating about handwriting analysis question documents is that when it's generated from one particular or specific person's hand, it's really hard for these individuals to go against the tide.

What you've learned since you were very, very little and you first began to structure letters and write sentences and all of these things, it gets ingrained. So this idea that he's writing in all caps, that's a learned behavior, that he's misspelling. I think one of the questions I would have, this guy is obviously at least somewhat bright. I mean, he studied economics at Berkeley. I have to think at some point in time, he understood how to structure the English language. Is he doing this on purpose? Would he misspell intentionally? I don't know. Maybe it, you know, maybe it goes to this grander world he's created, but it's easy to tie this back to him that he generated this letter. It all depends on what

the prosecutors can do with it. Levi Page, tell me about her actual murder, the layout of her home, the time of death. What more do we know? Well, Nancy, here's the reason why police believe that she was gunned down execution-style Christmas Eve and was in the home 10 days before they discovered her. They interviewed a friend, and that night, that was the last time she was seen, she went to the movies with this friend, and they believe, police believe, that she was murdered by someone that she knew, that she opened the door and that she turned around. She was comfortable enough with this person that she turned around and they shot her in the back of the head. Robert Durst on trial right now for the murder of his so-called best friend, Susan Berman.

Durst has always been suspected in two other crimes, the disappearance of first wife Kathleen and the murder and dismemberment of Morris Black, his elderly neighbor. He was acquitted of that murder in 2003 by a nutcake jury. Here we have him on tape stating, what the hell did I do? Kill them all. Of course, it seems like a lot of people are afraid to come forward, take a listen to a witness, a secret witness, who tells Aaron Moriarty at 48 Hours they're afraid. This individual was listed as a secret witness. In fact, he came through a back door in the courtroom and he was accompanied by protection guards because he's afraid that because Durst still has $100 million that he could be killed if he comes. This is a longtime friend of Robert Durst.

He worked and his wife still works for the Durst Realty Company here in New York, real estate company in New York. And he says, there'll be a lot of questions raised about this, but he says that Susan Berman, number one, told him that Durst killed his first wife, Kathy, said that. And he even says at a dinner, Durst said to him, and in reference to Susan Berman, the victim in this case, that it was either her or me, insinuating that he may have killed, did kill Susan Berman. Wow. In addition to the murder charge, Durst is also facing felony firearms and drug charges because when he was arrested, he had a Smith & Wesson.38 revolver with marijuana, $42,000 in cash, a latex mask, a fake ID, passport, and maps of Cuba. He was expecting a package with $117,000 in cash and other personal items. You know, that sounds like a to-do list

for a killer to Wendy Patchett, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. I mean, Wendy, do you have a latex mask stuffed in your back pocket? You know, Nancy, that is like a swag bag of criminal liability. I can't believe all those items. I mean, I'm sure maybe one of each might be some innocent explanation, but to have all those items. I mean, I'm sure maybe one of each might be some innocent explanation. But to have all those together under the rest of the circumstances, you know, that's, as we all know, what putting two cases together is about. It's every piece of circumstantial evidence could be explained away by a crafty defense attorney. But when you have this many points that are together, we begin to connect the dots.

So, yes, what he had in his possession really lends some credibility to this idea, not only that he's guilty, but that he also had other plans maybe to escape, to flee the country. It's all so interesting, and it's also going to be interesting to that jury eventually. I mean, really, think about it. Floyd Steiger, all that cash and a map of Cuba and a fake ID. Could he have planted any more things to make himself look more guilty between all this and that? Sounds like Scott Peterson.

Remember Scott Peterson with a fake ID and all the money and all the condoms? Yeah. Yeah, and well, this guy also felt so, because he'd gotten away with it so many times. That's why he feels emboldened to do this type of stuff, because he keeps getting away with it. And so it's just, you know, he gets more and

more stupid stuff like that. We just, like I said, it's a gift. What about it to you, Justice Scott Morgan? I think that he showed up and he's well planned. This is commonly what's referred to as a kill kit. If you look at it from an investigative standpoint, he has the means at his hand to facilitate something like this. And going back to what we said earlier, the fact that he got into this house or someone got into this house with no struggle whatsoever. This young lady was taken unawares. And, you know, this actually happened in Benedict Canyon. And it's associated with a couple of other horrible things.

The Tate-Labianka murders, for instance. This is an isolated, exclusive area. You don't have homicides that take place in this area, and such a violent crime. Someone was prepared that showed up. They had knowledge of this individual, and she was taken unawares, shot in the back of the head. It's actually, you know, when I look at this, you have to think about who has access to this woman, who has the ability to pull this off. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She became more independent. It wasn't a fairy tale anymore.

No. In fact, Kathy's brother Jim told us it was more like a horror movie. There's a dark side of Bob that, you know, was fairly well camouflaged when they were first going out and getting married. But it escalated ultimately into psychological abuse, economic abuse, and physical abuse. Kathy warned all of us that if anything ever happened, look to Bob. Bob did it. Don't let him get away with it.

Then, in 1982, Kathy Durst disappeared. How did he take it? You know, he asked if we had seen her, if we heard anything, if we knew anything. But they didn't. No one did. Bob was typically almost detached in his demeanor. You know, almost, I don't know nothing, I don't know anything. That's from CBS 48 Hours, Robert Durst, The Lost Years, A Dark Side, Escalated to Psychological Abuse and Physical Abuse.

Kathy told friends if anything ever happened to her, quote, don't let Bob get away with it. Well, that is quite the irony, quite the coincidence, because we know years before her murder, Susan Berman, his best friend, warned another friend that if anything ever happened to her, her friend, real estate tycoon Robert Durst, did it. The bombshell allegation was made by Berman's very dear friend Miriam Barnes, who testified during a pretrial hearing in LA. The judge allowed some witnesses to testify early in the event they die before the trial is over. Hey, that's not a

good outlook. You know, you got Robert Durst on trial for murder, and they're afraid the witnesses are going to keel over. Hold on just a moment. Joe Scott Morgan wants in. Joe Scott, what do you make of the evidence in the Susan Berman murder? I think that it's significant, Nancy, in the sense that these are all specific tiebacks, potentially, to Durst. I go back to this idea of, and this is circumstantial, but who would have access to her? Who would know her schedule? So this ties back to the evidence, the physical evidence that we have, most notably the weapon that was utilized and also the attitude or the physical attitude, the relationship between these two when she was shot. So this is powerful stuff

when you combine all of this. What do you think is the single most powerful evidence against him? I think that probably from a circumstantial standpoint, the relationship he had with her, tying this back, she had information, at least some people believe, she had information relative to what happened to Durst White, which, you know, to this day is really a big mystery. You know, there's no way to tell. And he had to, you know, kind of get rid of anybody that might have firsthand knowledge, something that he had relayed back to them. And as tight as they were, I mean, this woman was literally his best friend, Nancy.

And that's chilling in and of itself, that he would go to these links. Who had the motive and the means to rub this lady out. And why? Why? I mean, she's kind of a passive character. You know, every photo I've ever seen of Ms. Berman, she's got a smile on her face. She looks like a very nice lady. People describe her as being bubbly. But you look at this and you think that just like a lightning bolt out of the blue, this woman is literally executed in her own home in this very exclusive area in Los Angeles. It all signs point back to one location. And, you know, that's Mr. Durst. Well, also, is it true, Levi Page, that Durst admits through his lawyer, admits he wrote the cadaver letter tipping off cops to the location

of Susan Berman's body. Yes, in court filings, his legal team has said that he is the person that wrote the letter. The question is, how would he know that she died unless he was at the home and saw the dead body or unless he killed her? Man, I'm looking at it right now. The famous note misspells Beverly Hills as Beverly L-E-Y, just as Durst had in a 99 letter with matching blot lettering. And it is uncovered in the documentary The Jinx. I don't know why the cops didn't find this, but that's neither here nor there. When you look at this, it's identical. Even a layperson, not anyone who is an expert in handwriting analysis can see it. You can see it at crimeonline.com. Take a

listen to this. Lewin told Durst he was here to talk about one particular murder, Susan Berman's. I know that she was somebody that was important to you and that you cared about. Best friend. Best friend and Lewin thought one death Durst truly mourned. When you killed Susan that was not something you wanted to do. I'm gonna stay away from killing Susan you know that the killer left a note right I know the cadaver note why would you think the killer would have left a note I'm gonna stay away from that let me go another way whoever wrote the note was a part of killing her yes you agree You agree, right? Yes. No question, right? Whoever wrote that note had to be involved in Susan's death.

Okay. That's our friends at Dateline NBC. That was Keith Morrison. So his own lawyers have admitted, I mean, there's really no way you can deny it when you look at the comparison to Cloyd Steiger, 22 years homicide detective and author. And then if you match that up with

what he says in the HBO documentary that whoever wrote the cadaver note tipping cops off that Susan Berman's dead body was in her home had to have something to do with her death. I mean, there's your conviction right now. I mean, this is for the prosecution to lose. It's happening right now. Yeah, that's another gift hand-delivered. And you know, the fact that he admitted through his attorneys writing this note reminds me of him admitting he cut up the body of Mr. Bullock in Texas and still got away with it. So he just feels emboldened that way too. And the fact that he just said actively, he has no question now that he wrote the note, whoever wrote this note did have something to do with Susan's death. Of course they did.

And I think the reason he wrote the note is because she hadn't been found and he knew that he'd probably been checking the news and he really didn't want his friend to lay there and rot maybe. So that's why he decided to send that note. That's just what I think. He's a bizarre guy.

He kind of reminds me of the guy from the DuPont family years ago that got involved in that wrestling team and ended up killing a guy. Just kind of reminds me of the guy from the DuPont family years ago that got involved in that wrestling team and ended up killing a guy. Just an entitled, rich guy with so much money, didn't know what to do. But I think it's all catching up to him this time. Way in, Wendy Patrick. Part of the problem with cases like this is what defense attorneys have to do is clean up the statements their clients already made. And when you're doing that in this case, trying to spin

the statements that Robert Durst already made, for whatever reason, decided to talk to HBO, deciding to sit down and engage in these interviews, you're going to have these subject to interpretations. You're right that this is prosecutions to lose, but it's also true, as all of us know, we have seen cases go sideways when there is some other plausible explanation, what fuels that defense theory is the fact that these women seem so wholesome and so likable, as we've already heard Joseph Scott Morgan point out, and yet they were with this man. How bad could he have been? That's going to be part of the defense. What, Nancy, you and I would say, having done this job as long as we have, is even well-educated, nice people can be fooled. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, you hear him say,

I want to stay away from the Susan Berman cadaver letter. He won't answer anything about it. You know, if my friend had been killed, I would be doing anything I could think of to try to find the killer instead of, quote, staying away from discussing the cadaver letter, telling cops where the body was and that she was sitting there decomposing, and also his emboldened attitude. Weigh in, Dr. Bethany. Well, Nancy, this guy has way too much money and way too much time on his hands and an enormous amount of energy combined with a homicidal instinct. And I keep trying to think, how did these killings unfold in the

context of each of these interpersonal relationships? First of all, his wife, who goes missing, the elderly neighbor who's dismembered and the head ends up in the bay, and then Susan Berman, who's shot in the back of the head. What transpired in these relationships? And it seems to me that he must have exerted an enormous amount of influence and control over these people. He must have had homicidal intent of influence and control over these people. He must have had homicidal intent for months or years prior to killing them. I can't believe that he just made friends with a neighbor across the hall because, you know, he wanted to go have tea with him. I think somehow he selected these victims and then the homicidal urge waxed and waned.

And then when the control slipped over each of these people, then he moved in for the kill. I mean, obviously, with Susan Berman, he had some motivation because he may have talked to her at great length about his other crimes. So that's a very simple motivation that we all understand. But I think there's more complex underlying psychological motivations like the wish to kill that just exists just in and of itself. Being kind of a blabbermouth like he is on all of these interviews, he probably blabbed and blabbed to Susan Berman, glorifying his crimes and reliving the satisfaction of them. He probably couldn't help but talk to Susan Berman about these crimes. So we think of all these people coming to trial and they're afraid, they're afraid for their lives, the judge is afraid somebody's going to kill over. The fact is he may have blabbed and confessed to

many people. There are many people out there who are saying, thank God, for the grace of God, go I. You know, I'm glad he didn't kill me. And they may know a lot, but they may be afraid because this man is worth $100 million. He comes from a great family financial empire. And they're afraid because not only did he kill three people, but there are other people out there who know his secrets and know he has this enormous amount of energy that he could probably even exert behind bars. It's been so many years since Susan Berman's murder to Wendy Patrick. How likely do you think it is he will be convicted? He's skated away from Morris Black's murder and Kathy Durst's murder. Yeah, that is really significant because

you have a guy that has gotten away with a lot over the years, at least that's the prosecution's theory. And why now would you decide to sit down and say what he did? One of the rationales could have been he thought he got away with it and it was okay now, perhaps to regain the spotlight through talking about something that would never then come up again. That was a big mistake. And I know, Nancy, you've pointed this out before, that that might be one of the reasons behind the sudden motivation, not only to speak, but to answer those very dangerous questions that his defense attorneys now are going to have to explain. And another issue to Chloe Steiger, is this the only chance we're going to ever have for justice? I mean, indirectly for the

disappearance and death of Durst's first wife? Oh, I think so. Because I don't think that, well, you don't have a body, you have circumstantial evidence, but not enough to charge or convict him of that crime. So this is your only shot for her. Otherwise, you have circumstantial evidence, but not enough to charge or convict him of that crime. So this is your only shot for her. Otherwise, you know, there's not going to be any justice in that case. Even if they find the body now, it'll be scalable. There won't be any physical evidence. So it would be very, very difficult. We wait as justice unfolds in a California courtroom in the murder of Susan Berman. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.