Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Music Star-Sex-Perv R. Kelly Whines of "POPULARITY ' in Prison Turn to Fear

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

Recording artist R Kelly is serving a 30-year sentence for his racketeering and sex trafficking conviction. In the last days, the Supreme Court has declined to hear an appeal on claims that  prosecutors “stretched” the law in the  convictions against him.   The justices denied an appeal last month.  Now Kelly wants to be released to home detention claiming that federal authorities are plotting to kill Kelly in prison.  A defense motion claims Kelly's former cellmate conspired with prison officials to steal mail between him and his attorneys, and turn it over to prosecutors before his trial.  Kelly's attorneys also claimed prison officials recruited a fellow prison inmate to kill Kelly to keep him from exposing the plot.  Joining Nancy Grace today:  Lisa Van Allen - victim,  testified against R Kelly  Brad Micklin -New Jersey lawyer Dr. Bethany Marshall- psychoanalyst Vincent Hill -  private investigator, author of "Playbook to a Murder," Robyn Walensky - Crime Stories investigative reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. R. Kelly. Okay, I guess he's jealous. Sean Combs did he is getting all the attention. In the last days, another wrinkle. Let me say a bizarre wrinkle in the R. Kelly sex trafficking prosecution. R. Kelly, a renowned R&B singer, multimillionaire, just can't keep his yap shut, can he?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The I Believe I Can Fly hitmaker is behind bars. Yes, he's in the can serving a 31-year sentence for child sex abuse crimes. You heard me right. Child sex abuse crimes. He hears about Shawn Combs, aka Diddy, getting all the attention, and now he has demanded that he be set free and wants, quote, house arrest, citing fears for his safety, and claims there is a murder plot orchestrated against him by fellow inmates.

Oh, I hate when that happens when you get convicted on multiple counts of child sex abuse and sex trafficking and you get thrown behind bars and the other inmates Wow, I wonder why? Hmm What do we know? With me right now is a very special guest Lisa Van Allen I met and just her poise and her emotion her recounting her time with R. Kelly the the musical superstar, nearly broke my heart. Lisa, a father and mother of a girl say their daughter was 90 pounds and looked like a prisoner after she returned from the singer's tour bus and screamed quote

like a mad woman at the mention of R Kelly's name. Now these quote rumors have been swirling for years and I recall when R Kelly was prosecuted I mean it took a darn videotape being sent to the prosecutor's office. I guess the word of the victims wasn't enough. So they go forward with a video of R. Kelly not only having sex with a minor, that's called statutory rape, according to the prosecution, but urinating on her and in her mouth. Okay. The jury acquitted him, claiming that they didn't know if the girl was underage. Okay.

Lisa Van Allen, could you please, as best as you can, tell us how you met R. Kelly and what happened after that? I met him in 1998 at the Home Alone video shoot. I actually went with a friend of mine's girlfriend. She was an extra and I went with her and I was an extra as well. And he actually had his cousin come up to me and told me that he wanted to meet me.

I wasn't sure who he was when he told me. He said, Rob wants to meet you. And I was asking him who Rob was. And he said R. Kelly. So I went over to him. I was surprised because I was only him who Rob was. And he said R. Kelly. So I went over to him. I was, you know, surprised because I was only 17 years old. So I didn't expect to meet him. There were tons of grown women there, strippers and other, you know, things

like that, that he could have been interested in meeting, but he picked out the youngest girl in the crowd. And I went over and met him and he asked me how old I was. And I told him I was 17. His first question, well his second question was, will your mother let you come to Chicago? Lisa, hold on. For those of you just joining me, an alleged victim, the superstar R. Kelly, the creator of I Believe I Can Fly. Hold on just a moment Dr. Bethany Marshall let me ask Lisa one more question. Lisa yeah was this before or after he was tried on that video with the 14 year old girl? Before. So Dr.

Bethany Marshall the first thing he did and Lisa Van Allen has been consistent every time she's told her story. First thing he did, he seeks her out. There's all these strippers, grown women everywhere. He comes over to a teen girl and says, how old are you? What does that tell you, Dr. Bethany? It tells me that this is his offending pattern. He wants underage girls, minors, and he wants girls who are pliable, over whom he can have control. And you know, R. Kelly is setting up a sex cult. So what is he going to do? He's going to go towards the youngest, the most vulnerable members of any group, and

he's going to recruit them. He's on a recruiting mission. That's what it tells me. Back to Lisa Van Allen. She claims that R. Kelly took advantage of her sexually as a young girl and I believe her. I believe her standing on her own because I've met her. We're not just some disembodied voices over the airwaves. I have met Lisa Van Allen. I have looked her in the eye. I have spoken to her on and off camera.

I have evaluated her credibility, her demeanor, the degree of detail. I've compared her current statements to many, many previous statements for inconsistencies and corroboration. And I can tell you, as a veteran felony prosecutor, if I were a better, I would put money that Lisa Van Allen is telling the truth. And I believe a jury would agree with me.

Listen. When we first started having sex, Rob was behind the camera. And I started popping the tapes in to see what was on them. But I came across the one with me, him and the 14 year old. Bootleg copies of the tapes start showing up around the country. This is the one that makes it almost impossible for people to pretend that they did not know that this person had a thing for

little girls. So Lisa Van Allen, R. Kelly comes up to you. Amongst all the strippers and the women, grown women, he picks out a skinny little girl. And then what happens? Says how old are you? Then what happens? And will your mom let you come to my town? Right.

And then, I mean, of course he knows I'm not gonna ask my mother at the video shoot and there's no, you wouldn't have cell phones, you know, back then like now. So I'm assuming he asked that question just to see if I would agree to come pretty much. You know what I mean? So yeah, so after that, then- So what did you say?

Yeah, I said yes, my mother would allow me to come. But of course, I didn't ask her. You get what I mean? And that started it. Listen. R. Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. The charges they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. They filed child pornography charges.

It's the same penalties, but is easier to prove if you cannot pin it down to a specific date. There was no date on the tape. What about the child porn charges? Not right now, guys. He ultimately had to face the charges in a Chicago courtroom. He pleads not guilty and posts his bail, and he's released. After R. Kelly pleads not guilty, he goes straight to a Southside church.

He goes straight to an event where he is admired by young children. Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly having sex with an underage girl and ministers, civil rights leaders in the city of Chicago wanted to play up the side of him that did the, I believe I can fuck. And not the side of him with the raunchy lyrics

that kind of went along with possibly having sex with an underage girl. You are hearing from Surviving R. Kelly on Lifetime. As we all know, the musical superstar R. Kelly was arrested on child porn charges for making that grainy video with a 14-year-old girl in a sex act. And in the video, you can clearly see a mole on the back of R Kelly's back, which is the mole on his back. But the girl would refuse to admit that it was her. So the state ran up against a rock and a hard spot because they couldn't definitively prove it was her. But Lisa Van Allen is with me who lived R. Kelly, who I believe is one of his victims.

Lisa Van Allen, do you believe the girl was 14 years old in that porn tape? I know she was 14 because we actually had a, you know, a threesome with her. And at the time you told me she was 16 years old, I later found out that she was two years younger than that. So, because we were headed to one of his video shoots. On the way there, she told me that she was going to be getting a PT Cruiser for her 16th birthday. By me doing the math, you know,

of how long ago the first encounter was, it was two years prior to that. So if you're just about to turn 16 in a few weeks, then that would have made you 14 when we had the sexual encounter. And the tape that was on trial, she looked exactly the same, had the same hairstyle, the same, the same, just everything. Everything was exactly the same, the same, it was even in the same room. Well, I mean, Lisa, you had a threesome weather. Right. But I think you got to know her fairly well and you saw her. You saw her more of her than any of us have seen.

And I'm not judging. I don't care who does what with who, unless it is non-consensual or there's a minor involved. Exactly. And I think everyone is so in awe, not me, but other people, of R. Kelly that he has literally gotten away with felonies for decades. I mean, Lisa, his marriage to Aaliyah back in, I, this is off the top of my head, 1996, she was 15 and he coerced her to lie on the marriage certificate to marry her. And then when it came out that the certificate was a fraud, her parents had a fit, I'm sure, and they got the thing annulled. And would never speak of R Kelly is my understanding Lisa Well, I know he told me that they had a thing called pins and eyeballs

So no matter if it was pins and her eyeballs are here. They wouldn't speak about it so I Want to go back to you Lisa Van Allen with me who was lured into our Kelly's web. So he comes up to you on this video shoot. He picks you out of all these grown women. You're just a skinny little teen girl. Ask if you can come to his town, which I assume was Chicago.

Did you go? Yes, I did. I didn't go immediately. I waited about a month to call him. The main reason was because I didn't know what to talk to him about. I mean, that might sound a little crazy to grown people, but as a young girl, I didn't know what to talk to

a grown man, yet alone R. Kelly on the phone about. I didn't think he was gonna rush me to Chicago. I thought we were gonna have a phone conversation. So I waited a while to call him. And then once I did call him, it was no conversation other than him asking, when can you get to Chicago? And then what happened? So I told him whenever he could get me there and he put me on the phone with June Brown, which is his assistant.

And June talked me through everything of how to get there. He didn't book it for me, of course, because I was 17 at the time. So they sent me the money and they actually told me to get my own ticket and where to go and what hotel to go to once I got there and everything. And then they brought me to him once I got to Chicago. So they are killing his people told you how to book your own ticket. At 17, I would not have known how to book my own ticket. And you did and use the money.

Yeah, I didn't. No, I didn't even have an ID. So I had to go talk me into getting an ID, you know, telling me what's all I needed to do to fly. To Nicole DeBoer joining me, former prosecutor, now criminal defense lawyer, Nicole DeBoer, you've prosecuted a lot of felony cases. And I think this is diabolical. And I'll tell you why, because they knew how to erase all the evidence of their involvement. It's not him putting it on his credit card or his recording studio.

She did it. So in years to come, they could go, Oh, she just showed up. We didn't even know she was coming. Yeah. You know, it is heartbreaking to hear this account of what happened. And I have to agree that what adds to the credibility of this story here are the details, the many, many details about when and how and what was said and what the instructions were. So I tend to agree that this is a case that really ought to hold up if the charges would just be accepted. You know, Alexis Tereshchuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter, what a mind, let me just think of the right word for that, How to mess with your mind because one moment

he's having sex with these girls and the next moment people are cheering for him and he's singing gospel music. Nancy, the thing is so many people have come forward for so many years with stories about R. Kelly and the authorities never believe them. Reporters, I have spoken with people who said that they knew victims that were living with R. Kelly for years. We've written stories. The authorities have done nothing because he is so famous and so rich and so powerful and just no one believed these girls. This is one of the hardest stories to cover as a reporter when you write things and you write them and no one believes it and nothing happens.

The police do nothing. It's so frustrating. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Grammy winning singer and pop icon got 30-plus years behind bars for sex-abusing women and underage girls and boys and doing it over the span of decades. I remember when he was sentenced by U.S. District Judge and Donnelly. This is after Donnelly heard multiple statements from seven victims during hours and hours in court of victim statements in Brooklyn Federal Court.

And there was another witness, Jevonte Cunningham. I will never forget what was said, quote, with every addition of a new victim, you grew in wickedness. And the witness stared directly at him. She said, and I quote, you used your fame and power to groom and coach underage boys and girls for your own sex gratification. Another victim stated in open court quote, you made me do things that broke my spirit. I literally wished I would die because of how low you made me feel. She then turned to our Kelly Kelly in court and said, Do you remember that?

And R. Kelly wouldn't even look up at her. R. Kelly, Robert Sylvester Kelly, convicted on nine charges, racketeering, violating the Mann Act, that bars, interstate transportation of women and girls for quote, immoral purposes. Yeah, the judge threw the book at him. But now he says, people behind bars don't like me. I need house arrest. Fat chance, bro, fat chance. Let's just revisit.

The Cook County State's Attorney's Office, as we understand it now from two sources, has indicted R. Kelly. As you know, R. Kelly, back in 2008, went to trial. He went to trial on 14 counts of child pornography. He was acquitted in that trial. And in that trial, there was also physical evidence, including a tape, a videotape that prosecutors at the time says was a girl that was 13 years or 14 years old and R. Kelly involved in sexual acts that

had been recorded by R. Kelly, but he was acquitted on those charges because the jury said they simply could not positively beyond a reasonable doubt end up being able to identify R. Kelly or the girl, even though they brought a lot of witnesses to say otherwise. There were witnesses in that particular case that said opposite things. And so the jury just was not able to go forward with a conviction. R. Kelly has always maintained that he is innocent of all the charges and accusations that have been coming at him. You hear it from our friend, Sarah Seidner. Siris Sidner, R. Kelly behind bars indicted and booked on 10 counts of aggravated criminal

sex abuse. Straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Robin Walensky. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life, the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon. Robin, what happened? Well here's the story, Nancy. Uh, R Kelly has been charged with the 10 counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse.

These are allegations that stem from many years from 1998 to 2010, involving four females, three who were at the time, teenage girls, teenage girls. Teenage girls. When you say teen girls, Robin Walensky, are you talking 13 or 19? Oh, we're talking 13, 14, 15 young, very young who idolized this man.

Guys, we're talking about R. Kelly, Robert Sylvester Kelly, age 52, set to spend another night in jail. Robin Walensky, crimeonline.com investigative reporter. Tell me about the arrest and the booking. Well, here's the situation. He actually, R. Kelly, turned himself in in Chicago to the police department.

And there were many, many reporters, both in mainstream news and entertainment reporters, all there shouting questions at him. Did you do it? Are you guilty? And he said nothing. He turned himself into the police and he was booked. And then the next day, the judge, he had a bond hearing and he was being held on

a million dollar bond, has to put up a hundred thousand cash to get out. And so far, Nancy, he hasn't come up with the money. Here's this guy who allegedly has all this money and is worth millions and billions of dollars, and he can't come up with a hundred thousand dollars to get out. Prosecutors allege one of the women was an underage girl who Kelly solicited

when he was on trial for child porn back in 2008. Let me introduce my all star panel, Robin Walensky, crime online.com investigative reporter, Brad Micklin, New Jersey lawyer, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned California psychoanalyst, Vincent Hill, cop turned PI, author of Playbook to a Murder on Amazon. Brad Micklin, you're the high profile defense lawyer. According to sources, one of the women was an underage girl Kelly solicited while he's on trial for child porn back in 2008. Remember that? Brad Micklin, what if your client jumped up and he's on video with a 14 year old girl Having sex and then urinates in her mouth. I mean, I didn't want to say that but that's the trick That's what happened Brad Micklin and during that during that trial. He solicits another underage girl

Well, if it's true Nancy, it's obviously repulsive But with regard to the current charges facing him, there are many issues that they need to get passed first. There are going to be statute limitation issues because these a lot of these actions were back in the late nineties. You got this documentary out that's going to change the jury poll and yet adding naughty with his hands into the evidence before the prosecutors even get to it. So I think long before we start to judge him on whether or not he did this, we have to see whether there's a basis for him to move forward on it. Okay, first of all, the only thing that I heard that

carries any water with me is the Avenatti issue. You know what? Avenatti has seemed to land in the middle of every controversy. He's involved with the Stormy Daniels issue. Then he somehow injected himself in the Me Too campaign. And now this, I have a problem with him having state's evidence first as well. But that aside, this is a very interesting fact, Brad Micklin, and I did not know this until I started very carefully researching the law.

The law has changed in multiple jurisdictions where the statute of limitations no longer applies in cases like this and it's retroactive, which I was very surprised about, which means that if you commit a crime, say you committed the crime in 2000, the 2000 law doesn't apply anymore. You get the 2019 law that's very rare, very rare under our constitution, but it's happened. So statute of limitations is not going to help him. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned California psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany, I mean the nerve, while he's on trial for child porn, got a jury, the works. According

to these prosecutors, he solicits another little girl. Nancy, he's compulsive. I mean, he is a sex predator, predators predate. The attorney who was giving the press, sir, kept talking about the fact that there was more than five years age difference between him and his victims. She said it again and again and again. And what that tells me is she's trying to say, he's not your average run of the mill sex predator. He is a pedophile. The criteria for pedophilia is that there is more than five years age difference between the offender and the victim and that the victim victim is prepubescent. Now the youngest one was 13 years old, so she was on the cusp. But as you just mentioned, there was another case when he was brought up on charges of child pornography.

So this guy just can't stop himself. His whole life is organized around the compulsion. And I think Nancy, that this is why he doesn't have any money. How can you make money when all you want to do is have sex with little kids? It ruins your entire life. This is all he can do. He's a talented musician, but I bet most of his waking hours are thinking about obtaining access to children and having sex with them.

Well, also, if reports are true, he is keeping up at least six different properties in the Atlanta area alone, plus whatever he's got going on in Chicago, housing all of these women that are in his harem. And that is a euphemistic way to put it. You know what, let me just put it like this. I've told many a jury, and Brad Micklin is going to shudder during this, the story at the end of a closing argument about Mr. Scorpion and Mr. Turtle. Mr. Scorpion meets Mr. Turtle at the side of the river and says please

just carry me across and turtle says oh no mr. scorpion because you will surely bite me and we will both go to the bottom of the river and i will die but scorpion says i promise why would i kill myself so begrudgingly turtle takes him across the river halfway halfway across, Turtle feels a pain in his neck. And he says, Mr. Scorpion, you bit me. Now we will both die. And Scorpion says, I can't help it. It's just my nature. Earlier today, Robert Kelly was indicted before a Cook County grand jury on 10 counts

of aggravated criminal sexual abuse involving four victims. The first victim, initials H.W. was involved in incidents which occurred between May 26th to 1998 and May 25th, 1999. A grand jury returned an indictment on four counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the victim being under the age of 17 and Robert Kelly being more than five years older than the victim being under the age of 17 and Robert Kelly being more than five years older than the victim. The second victim, initials R.L., was involved in an incident which occurred between September 26, 1998 and September 25, 2001. A grand jury returned an indictment on two counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the victims being under the age of

17 and Robert Kelly being more than five years older than that victim. The third victim, initials LC, was involved in an incident which occurred February 18, 2003. A grand jury returned an indictment on one count of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the transmission of semen by Robert Kelly upon any part of the body of the victim for the purpose of sexual gratification during the course of an underlying felony of attempt criminal sexual assault. The fourth victim, initials JP, was involved in incidents which occurred between May 1st 2009 and and January 31st, 2010.

A grand jury returned an indictment on three counts, three counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the victim being under the age of 17 and Robert Kelly being more than five years older than the victim. Aggravated criminal sexual abuse is a class two felony with a sentencing range of three to seven years for account. It is also probationable. We anticipate that Mr. Kelly will appear in bond court tomorrow

afternoon. Thank you. You are hearing the prosecutor outline all of the charges against R&B star R. Kelly, Robert Sylvester Kelly. And right now he's sitting in the can. There's just no nice way to put it. He's behind bars trying to drum up the money to make bond. Joining me, Robin Walensky, Vincent Hill, Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Brad Micklin, to Vincent Hill, cop turned PI, author of Playbook to a Murder on Amazon. You know, they go all the way back to 1998 for these claims, which show me the statute of

limitation is not in effect based on new legislation. A lot of defense attorneys, probably including Brad Micklin, but certainly our Kelly's lawyer is going to argue to a jury that these claims are so old, why are they just coming forward now? You know, a juror might fall for that, but there are other counts as well. Vincent, what did they have to do to get this information, to get the evidence, to show the case? Well, Nancy, I'm glad they did update the statute of limitations for these gruesome crimes. I mean, this reminds me of a Monica Lewinsky. You heard, you got semen on dresses, you got semen on shirts, you got semen on blouses. So the physical evidence is there. Thankfully, if we can get past these statutory limitations, we can actually get a conviction. And it's no wonder he's still sitting in jail and he can't come up

with 100 grand. He's been paying off women for years before closed on his house in 2012 because he had to go and pay off these women in civil cases. So it's no wonder he's sitting in jail and that's where he belongs quite frankly. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned California psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany, you would think after the first jury trial where he's actually brought up on felony charges of creating pornography with a girl 14 years old, you would think that that would stop him, but it didn't, according to prosecutors. Offenders offend again and again and again, and they organize their entire lives around the compulsion to offend. Like, like, like, say a lesser compulsion. Let's take, for example, alcoholism. An alcoholic might get a job as a bartender.

A pedophile might get a job as a priest or as a school teacher. A sex offender pedophile might become a musician so he can lure little girls and he will remain undeterred even when he has to pay out settlements. This is what we saw with Michael Jackson. Remember settlement after settlement with little boys, but the crimes went on and on and that's because there's also something called institutional sociopathy where one sociopath bands with another and then bands with another. These people like R Kelly, and we saw this with Harvey Weinstein, they surround

themselves with people who accommodate to their crimes. So they are aided and abetted all over the place. And that's why the offending pattern never stopped. To New Jersey lawyer, high profile defense attorney, Brad Micklin joining us. Brad Micklin, what do you make of the fact that some of the charges date back to 1998? How would you attack that at trial? Well, and that's going to be a problem. that some of the charges date back to 1998. How would you attack that at trial? Well, and that's going to be a problem.

I mean, he's got at this time several victims and several incidences. So you first attack the statute of limitations because in Illinois, the limitations depend on whether or not there's corroboration, the age of the offender and the relationship that R. Kelly may have had with that, meaning was he in a position of authority

or were they personally acquainted? So as a defense attorney, you're gonna attack each specific event, each specific victim and date to try to knock out some of the claims. It's not gonna be a slam dunk on a statute of limitations issue, but at least you can get rid of some of the offenses

and some of the victims and reduce what you're facing at trial. Guys, when Brad and I are talking about statute of limitations, what that means is under our jurisprudence, under our constitution, after a certain period of time, years, cases can no longer be prosecuted. They're deemed too old. The evidence is no longer as valid as it was before. That's the rationale. So you have a limit on how many years pass until you can no longer try the case. This is what we know. Singer R. Kelly's prosecutors alleging he solicited

underage girls for sex even while he was on trial for child porn. While he was on trial back in 2008, according to prosecutors, Kelly still found time to talk to fans, to sign autographs, to take photos and meet an underage girl he invited to his home and according to them, solicited for sex. Other accusers include a little girl who met Kelly at her 16th birthday party and a hairdresser who expected to braid the singer's hair only to find out he wanted a sex act instead. It goes on and on and on, but now he's really looking at a heap of trouble.

Now this is the person you don't want to have a fender bender with and see Gloria already get out of the car in front of you. Oh no, you do not. Listen to this. We have an appointment today with the New in front of you. Oh, no, you do not. Listen to this. We have an appointment today with the New York City Police Department who have as asked to meet with faith in furtherance of their investigation

into potential victims of R. Kelly. We will offer our full and complete cooperation in their investigation. Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta are also seeking information from potential victims and we plan to offer them our cooperation as well. Mr. Kelly you may soon join the ranks of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein. Just as they have been and are being held accountable for their actions you also must be accountable. To Robin

Walensky author of Beautiful Life and CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, where you can find this and every other breaking news item in justice and criminal law. Robin Walensky, how did Gloria Allred get involved? Well, Gloria Allred is now representing one of the underage girls who has claims against R. Kelly. You know what, Nancy, when I've been researching this case and covering it over time, what comes to my mind though about this, remember what your grandmother used to say to you? Where there's smoke, there's fire. Now all of these are allegations, but you start building your case and it goes back

to 1998 and then, you know, there's stuff prior to that and then it goes on and on and on. In response to the allegations of his many alleged victims, as contained in the recent Lifetime documentary, Kelly's attorney has appeared to threaten a lawsuit against Lifetime. And according to news reports, someone associated with Kelly's team launched a Facebook page called, quote, surviving lies to allegedly discredit his accusers. Reports indicated that the page was, quote, swiftly taken down for violating Facebook's policy on bullying or sharing others' private contact information.

News reports also claim that Mr. Kelly is threatening to sue everyone involved in the documentary. Mr. Kelly's attorney, Stephen Greenberg, said the singer will, quote, hopefully sue Lifetime in his first interview with ABC News since the release of Lifetime's Surviving R. Kelly. I say to Mr. Kelly and his attorney, be careful what you hope for. All of these attempts to intimidate and threaten our clients and others will not work. Mr. Kelly, your disgusting tactics will not prevent women who alleged they were victimized from telling their truth.

That is attorney Gloria Allred and I've got to tell you something. I've got a soft spot for her and this is why. I had not always heard of her and I worked with her daughter Lisa Blum at Court TV for many many years fine fine woman and long story short when I was out covering the Scott Peterson trial and I was there in Redwood City for months and months and months I would get to the courthouse okay I'd get there around six o'clock in the morning to start doing morning TV, stay for the whole day, do court TV, and stay to do Larry King, which ended at that time at 10 o'clock at night, when I would finally leave the courthouse. I would notice that Gloria Allred was

there when I got there at six. When I left at night, I remember her standing there in her fancy St. John suit working two cell phones standing at a stop sign working were king. I'm telling you she's got a work ethic like nobody else. Gloria already when she gets a hold of your case. It's like a pit bulls got a hold of you. You got to get pliers. You got to get a utensil to get that her jaw off your case. Uh, joining me, Brad Micklin, dr. Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Robin Wolinski.

So let me understand this. Robin Wolinski, this guy, he's, he's a music sensation. He's an icon. Can't put together the bail money. Yes. Quite incredible. isn't it? Here's a guy who wins three Grammys for his songs. He's writing songs for other famous artists.

He's got all these videos. He's got all these homes. He's got all this fame. He has all this fortune. And oh, by the way, I can't come up with $100,000. It's actually $250,000 bond for each of the four women. That's a million dollar bond. So he's got to come up with $100,000 in cash.

Kelly's lawyers asked for a lower bond amount, arguing that his finances are a mess, because he has just been dropped by a second, by another record label. But so far, that hasn't happened. The bond remains at $1 million. I want to outline exactly what the charges are to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills.

He is accused of basically operating compounds, homes, town homes, condos, at least six of them, where he houses young girls. They start around age 16 or so or younger and they live there for years. Everything they do, their food, what they wear, is controlled. They are given cell phones that can they can only dial R. Kelly or his henchpeople, they cannot come out of their rooms or go into the hall, they have to ask to go to the restroom, and apparently there is a den mother of sorts that explains to these young girls how they are to accommodate R. Kelly's demands, what he wants them to do, and if that video was any's demands what he wants them to do and if that video was

any indication of what he wants them to do urinating in their mouth I'm just very surprised it's taken so long dr. Bethany how did it get this far and what do you perceive of the acts that he is committing well okay Nancy you know that sex offenders on average offend for 17 years before they come to the attention of law enforcement or before they're incarcerated, prosecuted. So I'm not completely surprised by this. Look how long everything went on with Harvey Weinstein before he was prosecuted. But Nancy, we have to frame our thinking appropriately about what R. Kelly

is doing. This is not a school teacher in a classroom that has targeted a minor and is obsessed with that minor. This is a leader of a sex cult. That's what he fancies himself as being. This is a Warren Jeffs. This is a David Koresh. this is a John of God. This is somebody who has amassed wealth, properties, compounds, so he can bring as many women in as possible as a part of his harem. And then as with leaders of any cult, he systematically cuts them off from financial and social support.

He prevents them from calling their families. He begins to deprive them of food, clothing, and autonomy. And slowly he brainwashes them over time. So we're so fascinated by the sexual aspect of the sex cult that we forget that he is a run of the mill cult leader. As any other cult leader would be be again, cutting off his victims from outside support.

He wants to be the sole supplier of everything in their lives. And I think he believed that this would go on and on and on this idea of not being able to post bail. I'm sure she has a lot of money and properties, but you have to pour a lot of money into an obsession like this, Nancy. He's supporting scores of women and paying off other women at the same time in their families. Brad Micklin, he's got another problem with me. A veteran trial lawyer out of New Jersey jurisdiction, Brad Micklin.

Brad, he owes nearly $200,000 of child support. So his money problems don't stop with just his bail issue. Now, according to court documents, he owes almost $200,000 in unpaid child support. And catch this, the court ordered R. Kelly to make monthly payments of about $20,000 back in 2009. He didn't even show up at the hearing, according to the court documents. Now to avoid being held in contempt, a judge order, he paid the entire amount, 161,000 by March 6. Of course he didn't do it. And Greenberg, his defense lawyer says he doesn't have to pay the child

support before getting out of jail on this. I bet the court will disagree with that. Brad Micklin. I think the court's going to hold him until he pays the child support plus the bond. I agree actually with you, Nancy. I think even if they haven't ruled that way now, I think the family court should be making some decisions about not only what happens when he gets released, but

what happens when he does post the bail and comes to court, what happens to $100,000? Does it get returned to him? Or do we attach it and take it and pay it over to the child support, which I think is what ultimately will happen in this case. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, predator R. Kelly demanding he be released from his 30 plus year sentence on child abuse and sex trafficking because the other inmates don't like him and he's afraid. Wee-wee, how do you think those boys and girls felt while you were molesting them? You think they were afraid? You know, I don't even want to hear it. Let's just revisit what we know.

You're never going to believe this. The defense attorneys and all of R. Kelly's supporters, including his two girlfriends, were in court, want him released. Listen to our friend at WGN-TV. This is Nancy Lou. Kelly's attorneys are asking the judge to release the R&B singer while he waits for trial, arguing that he's not a danger to the community because many of the allegations are decades old. They also don't think Kelly should have

prisoners as roommates. Kelly's attorneys are arguing that he should get to live with his not one but two girlfriends in a secure facility such as a townhouse. A place that's appropriate that'll be safe for him and that can house the women that are part of his relationship. So we can't tell you where he'd be living. R. Kelly has just been moved out of solitary confinement and into GP general population, but prosecutors are fighting back against claims by his defense team. He was held in solitary against his will and they point very clearly to recorded jail house calls.

PS, all the calls from jail are recorded, okay? And there's a warning that you hear when you accept a call from the jail that it's from a jail, okay? On those calls he explained why he refused to go in the general population when it had been offered and he claims he was worried about his fame making him too popular among quote regular inmates who does he think he is special quote if I go to population I'm just up on everybody and everybody's up on me and I'm trying to figure out how to trust that or whatever he goes on to talk about why he doesn't want quote, too many people

up on you. I've seen too many movies. And it's just that I'm so popular here. Lisa Van Allen, then a teen girl when she meets R. Kelly. Lisa, what happened when you got to Chicago? Initially, when I got there, you know, being so young, it was a bit exciting to travel to another city and to meet, you know, him and to hang out and hear his music and things like that. But soon after that, you know, it kind of died down because he asked me to do a threesome with him.

And the way he got me to do it was he told me he had never had one before. And with me thinking that I'm his girlfriend, I felt, you know, kind of obligated to do that for him if he had never had one before and he's a superstar, you know what I mean? I'm like girls are always throwing themselves at him and he's never had one before so I'll just I'll go ahead and do it, you know it for him. We had the threesome and after we had it, it just became just something that he always wanted to do, threesomes with different girls. So what happened then? I would get very upset.

I cry more often than not, I cry about it. And he would always try to give me like pep talks about how it was just sex and it didn't hold always try to give me like pep talks about how you know it was just sex and it didn't hold any emotion to him and how a lot of times he didn't know the girl's names and you know if i could just do it and get it over with you know so it would be a lot of trauma involved for me because you know it was something that i didn't want to do and i felt you know that i had to do it for him, especially since I had already done it. You know what I mean? But, you know, once I realized once we did it more than once, I realized it was a lie, but I was

already caught up into it and I ended up living there with him. You know, he was taking care of me. You know, I didn't have my job anymore at the mall, you know, so it kind of was like, I really didn't have a choice. When he would try to give you, as you refer to it as pep talks, you told me that he would say things like, if you love me, you wouldn't try to change me. Yes, he would. Yes, he would say that.

And he would say things like that. He would say that that's what his mother told him. If a woman loves a man, she won't try to change him. So I'm thinking to myself, well, him and his mother would know better than me. If I'm, you know, I'm a child, what do I know about what a grown woman should do or what, you know, to please a man, you know? So I go off with what he told me. I'm like, okay, well, I guess he's right. At this time you were 17 and how old was he? 31. Okay, I guess that says it all right there. Another bizarre twist in the prosecution of R. Kelly, the R&B star multimillionaire.

In the last days, Kelly insists he should be released. That inmates want to kill him. that inmates want to kill him. Hmm, how about solitary? That's a good alternative, but not house arrest. You see, there were several reasons that R. Kelly's attorney sided for requesting house arrest. Kelly's legal team submitted a motion claiming Bureau of Prison Officials conspired to arrange for him to be killed by a fellow inmate.

This alleged plot included a terminally ill inmate who claimed he was promised early release in exchange for carrying out the murder. They also claimed he was given an overdose quantity of medication by prison staff resulting in hospitalization. They also claimed he was being denied essential medication and surgery for blood clots. Kelly's legal team also argued that continued incarceration under these circumstances, with threats to his life and potential denial of medical care, constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, a violation of his Eighth Amendment rights.

Federal prosecutors have called these allegations repugnant and have stated that Kelly is using these claims to promote himself and avoid responsibility for his crimes. Our Kelly, previously acquitted in a child pornography case, then arrested by feds and prosecuted. He catches a 30-plus year sentence for child sex abuse and sex trafficking. According to R. Kelly's lawyer, quote, his situation is emblematic of the weaponization of the DOJ to go after public features. Okay, So he is now what? R. Kelly is the target of a government conspiracy? Okay.

A federal judge denied Kelly's request for house arrest, citing a lack of jurisdiction in the matter. It's just another and a long list of legal maneuverings made by Kelly's legal team. The Supreme Court has denied multiple appeals from R. Kelly related to his convictions for sex crimes and racketeering. In October of 2024, the Supreme Court

declined to hear an appeal regarding his convictions. Kelly's lawyers argued a shorter statue of limitation should have applied. And just last month, June 23, the Supreme Court denied an appeal related to his Rico conviction. Kelly's legal team argued the prosecution's use of the Rico Act to define the terms enterprise was a misinterpretation. All these decisions mean that R. Kelly's convictions and his decades-long prison sentence will stand. Hitmaker or Kelly demanding he get out of jail early and have just house arrest. What is he jealous of all the attention Edie BD

Dee Dee is getting? Goodbye friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.