Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Mystery Swirls: Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead, Charred

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Georgia police say the murder of Athens mom Debbie Collier is not a random event. Detectives say this is a targeted event. Collier went missing after sending a bizarre text to her daughter.  The bizarre message reportedly sent by Debbie Collier to her daughter, Amanda Bearden, along with $2,385 through Venmo says, “They are not going to let me go love you there is a key to the house in the blue flower pot by the door.”  After receiving the message, Collier’s daughter tried to call her mom but could not get through. Collier was found the next day in a ravine, naked, her body burned.  Police tracked a rental vehicle Collier was using to a wooded area 60 miles away from the family’s Athens home.  Collier's husband told police that he last saw his wife at about 9 p.m. on Friday, September 9, as he was going to bed. The husband went to work on Saturday morning and told investigators that his wife’s vehicle was still in the driveway at that time.  The New York Post reports that the couple’s neighbor said they heard some sort of commotion going on at Collier’s home the night before she vanished. Anyone with information on the case should contact Habersham Sheriff’s Investigators Cale Garrison at 706-839-0559 or George Cason at 706-839-0560. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Renee Rockwell - Atlanta Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: "Renee.Rockwell"  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, CarynStark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"  Derek Ellington - Certified Forensic Examiner, Licensed Private Investigator, Ellington Digital Forensics www.ellington.net Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Michael Ruiz - Reporter, Fox News Digital, Twitter: @MikeRreports  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Deborah, a.k.a. Debbie Collier. Just think about it. A few weeks ago, we didn't know her name, but now her name will forever be connected to the circumstances surrounding her murder. A mystery, a puzzle that is still missing a piece. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. In the last hours, police have a press conference answering some, but not all, of our questions.

As of right now, this mom found almost completely naked down the side of a ravine, her body partially burned. But it seems as if based on video surveillance we have just seen, within an hour before, she was perfectly normal. Seemingly headed to a football tailgating party. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Fox 5. Lots of speculation about this case over the last several weeks. This was the first opportunity for reporters to go face-to-face on the record with investigators. What happened to Debbie Collier, found partially nude and burned on the side of this road, according to investigators, is clear.

We have not changed our thoughts about this being a homicide. We believe that this act was deliberate and personal. There is no information or evidence to this point that shows that this was something random, that there was something that was out, that was not from somebody that she either knew or somebody who she had some association with knew or had association with and all you legal Eagles called it along with this exact panel on day one a random killer such as oh let's just say a burglar that has no idea whose home he's going into. And I say he because it typically is a he. And you see the homeowner there and you nut up and kill them. That hardly ever happens, but that would be random.

Usually that burglar turned killer leaves, hightails it out. You see nothing but tail hole and elbows. They're gone. Why go to all the effort to stage the scene? Try to burn the body to dispose of it. Smash her cell phone. Just too much surrounding this scene. Screams targeted. Screams deliberate. Take a listen to more. So they must trace Collier's steps. This is a new snapshot from the day before her body was discovered. Her vehicle traveling northbound on Georgia 15 on September 10th around 2.15 p.m.

in the direction of the Clayton family dollar, the place she was last seen alive. You can see her buying various items around 3 that afternoon. Investigators have new video of her walking out of the store back to her car. And found that she stayed in that parking lot an additional 10 minutes. From that 10 minutes at 3.19 p.m., she leaves the parking lot and begins to head southbound on Georgia 15. Okay, let's just absorb what we're hearing. She's going north on Georgia at 15. I believe that's also known as Old 441. Going north, she goes to the Family Dollar. She comes out. She sits in her car for 10 minutes, which I do not advise. Ladies, don't do that. If you're in your car, lock the car immediately and try to leave as quickly as you can. Now, sometimes you have to, I don't know, turn on your book on tape or make a call and put it on speaker or get your directions into your Waze or your Google Map.

All of that you should really do before you get in the car. That said, she sat in her car about 10 minutes from 3.09 p.m. to 3.19 p.m. It was during that window, that 10-minute window, that a mysterious Venmo for nearly $3,000 was sent from her to her daughter who curiously had just moved home 48 hours before. Today, she's home and her mom's dead. She sends the Venmo to the daughter, we think, or did someone hack into her Venmo and send that? You don't have to have a Venmo sent from your cell phone as long as someone knows how to log in. What was her login? Was it her birthday? Was it her daughter's birthday? Was it some configuration of their initials plus he's got a son too plus their DOBs?

Was it easy to figure out? Could anybody do it? Well there's there's more listen keep in mind this is around the same time collier's daughter amanda bearden says she received a venmo payment and a note from her mother saying quote they are not going to let me go love you we're still waiting more information that we have requested to confirm or deny where the venmo was sent from but we can confirm that amanda did receive the venmo. I'll tell you straight up right here, as far as this investigation goes, it seems like once we get on track with something like a curveball comes in out of nowhere. Again, we may be several weeks away from learning autopsy results. So investigators say this case is a marathon, not a race.

Well, I can tell you one thing. Now, this is Latin legal talk talk she sure as hell was not being held hostage as she was sitting in her own rental car in the parking lot of the family dollar so day one when we heard that message part of the Venmo at the time time that message was sent, Deborah, Debbie Collier, was sitting in her rental car, a Chrysler Pacifica, black in color, in the parking lot of the family dollar. She wasn't being held hostage. Nobody was not going to let me go at that moment. So that message, as we thought at the get-go, seems so dramatic, like a fifth grade girl wrote it in a novel, is a lie. I don't think Debbie Collier sent that, so who did? If we figure that out, we might know her killer.

Earlier I was talking about video surveillance near one of the Tallulah Gorge, Tallulah Falls Schools has video surveillance, and they see her going north toward the Family Dollar. That's where the Family Dollar surveillance catches her coming in, dressed up like she's going tailgating in her Georgia Bulldogs outfit. She buys a few things, leaves, sits in her car 10 minutes, heads back the way she came, but we don't have any surveillance video going southbound on 0441. Why? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. Now, you were just hearing our friends at Fox 5, but they're talking about the

press conference that has just gone down in the last hours. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take a listen to the Habersham County sheriffs. She stayed in that parking lot an additional 10 minutes. From that 10 minutes at 3.19 p.m., she leaves the parking lot and begins to head southbound on Georgia 15, which is the main highway, the four-lane highway that connects Raven County to Habersham. She starts traveling southbound towards Tallulah Falls, which is just inside Habersham County. We are still in the process of trying to obtain videos from other locations and other businesses along that route, and we encourage any business along

that route that might have cameras, please reach out to us. That way we can have a meeting with you and see if we can kind of even narrow down our timeline even more. People, listen. Any business or home along that stretch of Georgia 15, check your surveillance video. See what you can see. It may mean nothing to you, but it can mean a lot to investigators. Was she being followed? Was there a car tailing her? Think about it. Her car was found not too far from her dead body down a ravine.

So what? Did the killer walk away? Take a bicycle? No. The killer had wheels. Was he or she following her as she went toward that ravine area? Take a listen to more from the Habersham County Sheriff's. This tells us that the time frame is actually narrowed a little further for this case to begin at 3 19 p.m. on Saturday, September 10th, and ending at 12.44, Sunday, September 11th, the time of the discovery. Please understand that this case is very complex in nature and has a lot of questions and unknowns

that aren't found in a typical death investigation. It is going to take significantly more time than the 19 days that have passed since the discovery to solve this crime. He's right about that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Haversham County Sheriff's Office made it very clear that they have called in outside help, specifically neighboring county law enforcement. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

But first of all, I want to go out to Fox News digital reporter Michael Ruiz, who has been on the case from the very beginning. And you hear his voice peppering the sheriff's office with questions. Michael, thank you for being with us. I'm going to get into the Venmo account and how that happens and the timing of it and what it means because they said something very curious that happens and the timing of it and what it means because they said something very curious that they know the money was sent to Amanda Bearden but they don't know where the money is. That to me is inconsistent but I bet there's a good explanation for it. I want to first focus on what we learned about the Family Dollar video because it's the day of a game,

and she is absolutely dressed up like she's going to some type of a UGA party with the colors red and black. Yeah, Nancy. First, thanks for having me, but also she walks into that store wearing, I mean, it looks like a Herschel Walker jersey, or at least it's his number. It's kind of hard to read the back in the video there, but she goes in, and what does she buy? Ponchos, a lighter, a tarp. I mean, if you're going to watch the game somewhere outside those are things you might bring with you what was the

weather wait a minute wait a minute the day she goes missing jackie can you look that up on the almanac the weather in athens on the day she goes missing which was september 10 because she was found September 11, which was a Sunday. So September 10, it had to be raining, which is another indication. Michael Ruiz, when I found out that she bought a poncho, I'm like, no way. Did this woman plan a suicide? She's worried she's going to get her hair wet? No, that's not the thinking of someone about to end their life. But there's so much more evidence to support it was not a

suicide. That said, Michael Ruiz, she comes into the family dollar. She gets a poncho. She gets a lighter stick, which I'm thinking is one of those clicky things that you hold out to the fire and you click it and start it, correct? Right. They described it as a torch lighter, but they haven't shown us an actual picture of it. But you could start lighting coals, light a barbecue, something like that. It makes sense to purchase for that scenario. Lighter, poncho, a blue tarp, which was found near her body, partially burned, a red tote bag, which was also found found which i believe she was going to use to carry her items to our imaginary tailgate party she's dressed up it looks like black boots

she may have on black hose i couldn't tell from the um surveillance camera could you if she had on hose and there's a reason i ask well we don't know anything about what she was wearing. The investigators have kind of kept a lot of the crime scene details. Well, I mean, look at it, man. I'm sure you're not that familiar with women's sheer black hose. Renee Rockwell joining me, a high-profile defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Renee.Rockwell. Renee with two E's. Renee, have you looked at the surveillance video at that family dollar?

Look at it, Nancy. The value is that it's starting to zero in on some better time references for us. And it may, in fact, start eliminating usual suspects. Can we talk about what we know please do but my question to you was what is she wearing hose is she wearing black eyes Jackie Sydney look at it because her legs look like she's wearing sheer black hose but I can't tell Oh 70 degrees no rain 90 degrees no rain it just look at the video Jack and Sid and tell me what you see go ahead Renee you

were telling me what we know okay what we know is that the interesting the Venmo 2385 whoever sent that money knew that that that amount would go through don't you have a problem with that Nancy yes I do as you and I both know in early days at the DA's office, I would have to actually go to the bank to check my balance, the drive-through, to find out how much money was in there before I would write a big check. Right? Exactly. Renee, explain it to the other people that may not have money problems ever in their life. Well, whoever. I'm not going to be able to send somebody $23.85 right now.

Random number, random amount. But guess what? The amount went through. So somebody knew that that amount would go through. That's just interesting to me. You know what? That is really smart. And I had not thought of that. I'm embarrassed to say it's a random amount, which I always use the example of the JonBenet Ramsey case where the ransom was $118,000, which coincidentally was Jon Ramsey's bonus amount that he had just gotten. Who knew that? But yes, what was that number? What was it to pay? What was it for? And also, who would know that she had that much in her checking account? That's a really good point Guys have either of you looked at the video yet?

Yes, does it look like she has on sheer black hose or no hose at all? No, no, she has shorts on you can see her legs Yeah, I could see her legs But it looked couldn't help it was a silhouette making the outline of the legs dark or was she wearing sheer hose? She's got that big black purse right in front of her. Yes, she's got the big purse. Michael Ruiz has got a lot of questions about the purse. I'm going to circle back to that in just one moment.

Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist out of the New York jurisdiction at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Did you listen to the husband's 911 call? Did you hear that? I did, yes. He sounds sincere. He not only sounds sincere, but when they looked into him, Nancy, he really was parking cars for the game.

That's right. He has an alibi that sticks what's what's most interesting to me as a psychologist is when you watch her in the video when she's in the store she is as calm as you could possibly be there is absolutely no indication that something is making her anxious that that people are holding her hostage, threatening her. And it's very hard to imagine. Think about yourself, right? You're in a situation where you're saying that, you know, they have me, they won't let me go. And you're buying all these things and you're calm, you're serene,

like, you know, nothing's going on. I'm about to go and have a good time. That just doesn't ring true to me. It doesn't make sense that somebody's holding her hostage and won't let her go. Nancy. Well, it doesn't make sense to me that she's writing that kind of a message sitting in her car, unless she's part of some elaborate kidnapping hoax that ends in her own death.

Go ahead, Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new hit series, and it is a hit. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You can find it at all the podcast destinations.

Jump in, Joe Scott. One of the things that really struck me about that video where she's walking in the store, Nancy, is the fact that she's looking at her phone and it looks like she's responding or sending a text at that moment in time. It's raised. It's in her hand. She's focused on that. And dovetailing with what Karen said, she's not frenzied. She's paced. She's taking her time.

You know, if a profiler looked at this, you know, like somebody from the FBI, you know, they would, you know, when it comes to kidnapping, you have this level of stress that they kind of measure. You know, they see, you know, tensed up. That's not what you're seeing. She's actually manipulating her phone in some way. If people will just take a look at that i'm wondering if those were not instructions or directions or something you know as to going in to kind of purchase these items that seem so out of sorts in this environment potentially telling her where to meet them you know another thing i want to know if any of you have noticed this let me go to you michael ruiz joining us

fox news digital reporter and that's him throwing all the questions at a lot of the questions to the Habersham sheriffs, which they answered, I thought, really well. Michael Ruiz, have you noticed that in every single one of her pictures, every one, except the one where she got the big shiner where she said she fell, she has on full hair and makeup. Have you noticed that? That's a yes, no, by the way. Yes, yes. She looks very well put together all the time. I knew you would not be able to. Did you go to law school by any chance? Because I've never known a lawyer be able to answer with one syllable and you're following suit. But that's exactly what I was getting at. You got to my next question. She's always dressed up. She always has on perfect makeup.

And if you look at her in this, she's wearing her little visor. She's all fixed up. Do you see it? Her hair is done just like in all the pictures so you want to tell me she gets a whole face of makeup and a whole head of hair done if she's not going somewhere like I'm just saying tailgating party it could be anything where is she going somewhere that's gonna be outdoors that's what I'm saying okay take a listen to more that presser that has just

gone down in the last hours. One of the first questions that was asked is, can you confirm the Venmo message from mom to daughter was sent to mom's phone? We're still waiting more information that we have requested to confirm or deny where the Venmo was sent from, but we can confirm that Amanda did receive the Venmo. She did receive money. That much we do know right now. Continuing on, our next question was, are you in possession of Collier's cell phone and where was it found? Yes, we are in possession of that cell phone. We do have it in evidence, and it was located at the crime scene.

They do have the phone. It was located at the crime scene. That was a really big question. We are talking about that Venmo message. Now, you were hearing the Sheriff's Office take a listen to this. We are, again, going back to the cell phone providers and search warrants we've done. We're working with multiple different cell phone providers to obtain necessary information. All we know right now as far as the Venmo message is that, yes, it was sent to Amanda. There was a question in there as far as do we know where the money is now. No, we don't. For the simple fact that we are still obtaining information when it was sent,

where it was sent, what device it was sent from. We're still trying to obtain that information right now. Okay, joining me right now is a digital forensics expert. He is also a private investigator, and you can find him at Ellington.net. Derek Ellington joining us. What in the hay does that mean? Yes, Amanda got the message. Amanda Bearden, the daughter, the adult daughter who just came back, blew back into town two days before and now her mom is murdered. How can she get the Venmo, but they don't know where the money is?

Yeah, Nancy, so this is all very interesting. What the law enforcement has been talking about as far as tracking her location and looking at the phone, we know that they were able to do that and get some cell tower data. What we also know is that they're working right now with Venmo and the other online places to see what information they can get, including text messages and things like that. So that's a wealth of information. I think for me, going back to that transaction is very interesting. Does it represent the sum total of money in her account? It's a very arbitrary amount. I know police are looking into that. Okay, my question is, and I agree with

everything you just said, Derek Ellington, what I'm trying to figure out is what police mean. Michael Ruiz, what could they possibly mean that the money was transferred in this unique amount, as Renee Rockwell pointed out, somebody had to know that that money was transferred in this unique amount. As Renee Rockwell pointed out, somebody had to know that that money was in her account to make this Venmo happen. That amount of money, nearly three grand. They know it was transferred to the adult daughter, Amanda Bearden, but they don't know where the money is now. What does that mean?

Well, it raises the question. Oh, sorry, I just wanted to add one thing, Nancy. When they talked about confirming that it went to the daughter, I think what they're also confirming is that it had to have originated from her phone, the victim's phone. The mechanism that would have been required for a total stranger to access the Venmo account from a separate device, there would have been a lot of security. Venmo is in itself fairly secure. So we need to work with the theory that the transaction did originate from her phone. Okay, it's my understanding, Joe Scott Morgan, and Michael Ruiz, hold that thought, please. Joe Scott, if someone has your login info, they can send Venmo money from your account, from Joe Scott Morgan's account.

I can send money from your account if I have the login info from right here in the studio. I don't have to have your phone to do it. Yeah, that's my understanding. However, I think that, you know, just as Derek had said, there are certain, you know, walls of security. You have to answer certain questions in order to be able to facilitate that. And I think where this is kind of interesting, if you're talking about that something's going to originate from the phone and it's going to originate from another location, you have to log off of that in order to log on to another one? And again, this might go again to Derek's premise here that they have matching data that kind of matches it up relative to the position of the phone and relative to the Venmo account itself. Is there something, some way these are kind of intertwined and tied together where they can go back? And again, you know, listen, what did they say earlier? She was specifically targeted. Maybe this is one of those little links in the chain that talks about this

targeting that somebody has intimate knowledge of. Michael Ruiz, I think it's very clear that someone had her personal information that could have logged into her Venmo account. Is there any way under the sun that this woman sat in her car, sent the Venmo account, and as part of the Venmo money transfer, and as part of that transfer wrote, they won't let me go key to house in flower pot. Does anybody really think she sent that from her phone in her car in a parking lot? The message is very confusing, but what's interesting is one of the last pings of her cell phone is at the same time as the Venmo was sent.

Now, does that mean she sent the Venmo or did something else with her phone? I don't know and investigators haven't told me, but I guess it's a possibility. Guys, take a listen to this. As far as Steve working, we have pulled video from Synovus Bank where he stated that he was working that day because of being a UGA gang. He works for a private company called the Optimist Club that private contracts Synovus Bank's parking lot to park vehicles for the game day. They use that parking lot to provide parking for people coming to the game. We have confirmed that he was there from 9 a.m. to 4.06 p.m. on Saturday. So what Karen Stark was saying earlier is absolutely true. I think at this point, unless he's working with a

partner, and I think there'll be, unless he's working with a partner, and I think there'll be a trail of evidence to that, the husband is in the clear. He's about an hour away parking cars at a Synovus Bank parking lot. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want to circle back to what we know regarding that family dollar visit. Listen. I pulled the video footage from the store and talked with everybody from the store. Based off of that with Ms. Collier, it was asked that if Amanda was in there earlier and Amanda, based off of our knowledge at this time, there was some confusion there

and the associate that worked there actually saw the mother and not the daughter I was able to provide photos to that store clerk to confirm that based off of what we were told and they told and she said no I remember seeing the mother not the daughter what we can confirm we know that Amanda talked on the phone with her mother on Saturday afternoon. The last time she spoke to her mom was on the phone. Back to you, Michael Ruiz, joining us Fox News Digital. There had been a lot of confusion as to whether or not the adult daughter of Debbie Collier, Amanda Bearden, was in the family dollar with her mother just before she's murdered. Apparently, she was not there.

Did she ever say she was there, number one? And number two, what time do we think Amanda Bearden spoke to her mother on the phone that Saturday, the day that she is murdered? Timing of that phone call is a big question that I have as well. Maybe it took place during that 10 minutes where she was sitting in the car. Maybe that's why she didn't drive out of the parking lot right away. And if you watch that video, she doesn't really clearly directly leave the parking lot. She kind of goes to the north end only to turn southbound. It's kind of like a meandering little exit there, which is kind of odd, almost like she's distracted and she doesn't want to drive. But I don't want to speculate on that. In terms of Amanda being at that store.

So actually, we were told when we went and visited the clerk that the clerk saw Amanda, not Debbie. So we reached out to law enforcement and they went and re-interviewed the clerk with photos and showed her. And they checked the cameras and they confirmed that it was Debbie, not Amanda, who was in that store. But I think that's where that confusion kind of grew out of. Gotcha. So we jump in. What I keep coming back to is, of course, if you have the time to send a financial transaction, you've got time to call 911. You've got time to send a message for help. Is it possible that there's a level of extortion or threat and she went willingly to a point? That's a question we need to ask as well

because the police have said this isn't random. She had some type of connection with these people. Okay, so that would be essentially telling a woman who's in her car with her doors locked and her seatbelt on, do this or else. Exactly. So her husband is out parking cars. Where's the threat?

Do this or else what? Maybe they did threaten her family. Perhaps it was a threat to her family. We don't know. Okay, that sounds far-fetched to me. Michael Ruiz, I'm understanding that all of the digital devices, cell phones, laptops, iPads, the works, have been seized and are being evaluated. Yes, no? Yes. Okay, so if there was evidence of a plot or a threat, unless it was over the phone and that call could be traced, there's no digital imprint such as an email or a text, is there?

Not that we're aware of, but they also have kind of kept all that close to their chest. Correct. Okay, let me ask a question to Derek Ellington, digital forensics expert. Her cell phone was found. There was a lot of confusion about that. It was found not far from her dead body, but it was smashed. It had been smashed. It had been smashed. That really means nothing because everything is most likely going to be found in the cloud. Yes, no. That is correct. Smash doesn't tell us a lot. Nancy, we get phones from plane crashes and car crashes all the time and we have to repair them. But the police have

two sources of data to work from. They have the cloud, and then they have what we hope they can recover from the phone. It tells me one thing, Karen Stark. It tells me a lot about the mind of the killer. They actually want to destroy evidence. So this is not some guy, a hitchhiker she picks up, who doesn't give a flying fig about her cell phone or anything about him being on that cell phone because it's not going to be there. It's not some person she just met and was tricked into helping like somebody on the side of the road with a flat tire. Not really. This is someone who believes that in that cell phone is digital data that could implicate them. Get it, Karen Stark?

I get it, Nancy. But what I also get is that there are things that they did to her that happened that clearly can't be a hitchhiker on the side of the road. There's somebody who's very angry. Why else would they take off her clothes or have her take off her clothes or try to burn her it's there are things that don't mix if you want to kill somebody quickly this is not how you do it this is too deliberate this is anger you are so right i mean renee rockwell i've prosecuted a lot of murders, spree murders, serial killers, mass murderers. You've defended a lot of them. It's going to be a cold day in H-E-double-L that a random killer takes the time to take off her clothes,

unless they're going to rape her, to try to burn her body, to try to get rid of evidence, smash her cell phone, and leave a completely pristine car, nothing in the car at all, not even a print that we know of. Okay, there's something in the car, Nancy. What? There is something in the car that we just don't know what it is. But what we do know is at some point when that message was sent, we're going to find out what time the daughter received the message. And Nancy, if I ever send you $23 and tell you somebody's not going to let me go, not $2,300, but $23 and tell you that? Please don't take hours to go looking for me or call the police.

That's all. Oh, no. Number one, I'd call 911 right there. I'd locate your husband, number two. You can count on that. And every one of the reguards, there's a lot of them, find out where they were, then I'd put down a seance and call your mother in because I would need psychic help right then. Okay, Renee is absolutely

right. The Venmo in itself is an issue. Who gets three grand from their mom on a Venmo? Or did she get three grand? Did it go to Amanda Bearden, but it went to somebody else's account? We don't know where the money went. And I say, once you find the money, jump in. I wanted to say that that amount of money, what we don't know is she has a history of supposedly, allegedly trying to get money from her boyfriend, her live-in boyfriend for drugs.

You're talking about the daughter, right? Yes. So perhaps this is not unusual where she's asking her mother for specific amounts of money. And I also want to add that in Venmo, you can, as long as it's your phone, they don't keep checking and saying, you know, show us proof of identity. You can just go on and send money from your account. You know, speaking of the grown daughter, listen to our cut 42. This is what we can confirm. She lived in Maryland with her brother. She lived in, I think the same apartment complex, correct? With her brother up in Maryland. I can't tell you what the city is because I don't have my notes and stuff in front

of me, but I do know it's Maryland. She moved down here on the 8th, which would have been Thursday, September of September 8th, when she moved down here to Georgia. So we know that she was down here at some point on Thursday. She gets into town on Thursday, and Mom is dead on Saturday. In the middle of all of this line of investigation, and again, no one has been named a suspect or a person of interest. Now we have a mystery convict thrown into the mix. Take a listen to who we believe to be Debbie Collier's sister, Diane Shirley, calling 911. Yes, ma'am. My name is Diane Shirley, and my sister lives in Georgia,

and my niece told me she was missing. Her name is Deborah Collier, or she could go by Debbie. Okay. And I'm wondering if you all have any information about it. As far as, I mean, no, other than with the officer or whoever is working on the case, I don't know anything. Okay. All right. We're just not getting information, so I'm just. Yeah, I don't know anything. Okay. All right.

We're just not getting information, so I'm just... Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I am really worried about my sister. Okay. And... Do you have any information where she might go, or do you have anything to add? From my niece, she said that she was in an accident about a month ago and she was, you know, on the road and she was following this truck and this truck lost a paint can and the paint can hit my

sister's car and the paint went everywhere. And the driver was trying to convince my sister not to tell the cops that he was driving because he was out on parole and there was you know a stipulation to his parole that he couldn't drive i guess i was going to ask you think that was told to anybody else well you think that was told to the officer that concern that standing from my niece that's the understanding from my niece amanda bearden so michael ruiz the information about the mystery convict that's coming from the adult daughter amanda beardon so michael ruiz the information about the mystery convict that's coming from the adult daughter amanda beardon yes no yes well was a report ever filed i'm thinking yes because she debbie took her car in to get it fixed that's why she had a rental car so to get

insurance to pay for it i assume you normally file a police report and that would have the convict's name on it? Absolutely. And we have a copy of it and we reached out to the guy. And I don't see any indication that he is this ex-con. I think that that is a mischaracterization that somehow got to Diane Shirley. Let me ask you, was that what happened? A can of paint fell off a truck? So the report that I have doesn't say specifically that it was a can of paint, but it does say that equipment fell off the back of a truck, hit Debbie's car, and caused the accident. And nothing about him being an ex-con? Nothing about him being an ex-con. He had insurance. They went through it like that. He got a couple of citations, but nothing that put him in prison or in jail or violated any kind of parole that we could find.

Yeah. Renee Rocco, have you ever heard of a parole condition? Well, Nancy, he could be on bond. That he can't drive? He could be on bond with a stipulation, do not drive. Do not drive. Nancy? Wouldn't that be as a result of a habitual violator or DUI? I mean, have you ever seen that other than an impairment defense? Yeah. Vehicular homicide, do not drive. Now. I know I just said that. I'm asking you, focus. In any other kind of case other than vehicular homicide, habitual violator or DUI, have you ever heard of a probationer or a parolee being told,

don't drive? Yeah, just driving under suspension. Don't drive. Okay, so I'm going to take that as a no, which means that story doesn't make sense. Typically, parole and probation wants you to drive to work and to church and to see your probation or your parole officer. Again, no one has been named as a suspect or even a person of interest. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace,

Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.