Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "NAKED NANNY'S" DAMNING FACETIME, STABS TOT'S GRANDPA DEAD WITH SCREWDRIVER

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Psychotherapist Katie Ong calls her regular nanny, Samantha Rae Booth, when she is going to be out-of-town. For two years, Booth has cared for Ong's 3-year-old without incident.  Katie becomes concerned when she can't get Booth on the phone just before 8pm, so she calls her dad, David Ong, to go by the house and make sure everything is ok. David Ong arrives at his daughter's Royal Oak home to check on his granddaughter, but once he arrives, he too goes silent. When Katie can't get her father back on the phone, she calls her brother-in-law, Douglas Smith, explains the situation, and asks if he will go to the house and see what is going on. Smith arrives at the home at 9:25pm. The front door is wide open. Smith hears noises coming from the basement and calls out to the nanny. Booth does not respond, so Smith goes down to the basement and is shocked to find Booth covered in blood in a "manic state" and David Ong lying on the floor with severe head injuries. The 83-year-old grandpa, called  "the gentle giant" by his family,  did everything he could to protect his granddaughter from a screwdriver attack.  Douglas Smith and his niece are sent to the hospital while first responders try to save David Ong in the basement.  The elder Ong is pronounced dead on the scene in the basement.   Joining Nancy Grace today: John Day - Criminal Defense attorney of John Day Law   Dr. Janie Lacy - Licensed Psychotherapist and CEO of Life Counseling Solutions, Author of "How To Heal From A Toxic Relationship: A Guide To Reclaiming Your Mental Health and Happiness", Host of “The Resilient Professional” Podcast on YouTube, janielacy.com, Instagram & Facebook: @JanieLacy  Tom Green - Former Chief Deputy Washoe County Sheriff’s Office; Homicide Detective & Cold Case Squad Burglary/Fraud Detective;   Private Investigator, Owner Nevada Investigative Services LLC Dr. Thomas Coyne - Chief Medical Examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida; Forensic Pathologist, Toxicologist, Neuropathologist; X: @DrTMCoyne Allen Lengel - Editor of daily publication, Deadline Detroit, Former Washington Post reporter, deadlinedetroit.com   Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The so-called naked nannies damning FaceTime just before she stabbed the little tot's grandpa dead with a screwdriver. What? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

David Ong, the beloved patriarch of a thriving family, was living the dream with his wife and many grandchildren. But this picture perfect family was about to face a threat from someone they trusted. There is so much misinformation out there right now regarding the so-called naked nannies attack on an 83-year-old grandpa. First of all, who is Samantha Ray Booth? Let's take a look at her social. I'm having one of those days where I literally want to tell everybody and everything to fuck the fuck I was today years old when I realized how much f***ing has happened to me that I did not deserve it's like I'm ready to

throw down for my inner child right now like all of this she went through and she didn't deserve when do I get to be a f*** look at me I'm going to fuck me right now I fear for everybody in this neighborhood okay that is from at impath dot illuminated on TikTok what is empath dot illuminated, you're going to find out. But that was so revealing. Okay, leaving me with the question, does nobody look on social before they hire someone? That's a theoretical, that's a rhetorical question. Let me get back to the screwdriver attack on an 83-year-old grandpa, but control room just amuse me just for a moment. I've got to see Samantha Ray Booth again. Let's watch this.

I'm having one of those days where I literally want to tell everybody and everything to f*** the fuck. I was today years old when I realized how much f***ing has happened to me that I did not deserve. It's like I'm ready to throw down for my inner child right now. Like all of this shit she went through and she didn't deserve. When do I get to be a f***? Look at me.

I'm going to f***ing me right now. I fear for everybody in this neighborhood. I hear a lot of whispering there on the end. I almost said I don't even want to know what she's saying, but I do because it may be probative in other words, prove something. That's from at Empath. Dot illuminated on TikTok with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning.

A 35-year-old woman who has been working periodically for a family, a very loving family, for two years, suddenly attacks the grandpa and stabs him dead with a screwdriver. Now, what do we know happened that day? Listen. Psychotherapist Katie Ong calls on her regular nanny, Samantha Ray Booth, when she's out of town. Booth has been caring for Ong's three-year-old for two years. Katie becomes concerned when she can't get Booth on the phone just before 8 p.m.

and calls her dad, David Ong, to make sure everything's okay. Okay, now first I'm going to go to Dave Mack, joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Some people may think that that's out of the ordinary, that you've got a nanny with your and just because she doesn't pick up the phone, you then call someone to do a welfare check. That would be the grandpa. In this case, the grandpa, 83, lived in nearby. See, I don't find that odd at all when I can't get a hold of the twins

or I couldn't get a hold of the nanny. You darn right. I checked on them. I don't find that odd at all. Dave Mack, exactly what happened. Katie Hawn calls her father, David, and says, go check on Samantha and make sure everything's okay at the house. And the police say that that's what he did.

He went to the house to check on Samantha and the three-year-old. David Ong arrives at his daughter's $500,000 home in Royal Oaks to check on his granddaughter. But once he arrives, he too goes silent. When Katie can't get her father back on the phone, she calls brother-in-law Douglas Smith and asks if he will go to the house. So now she's doing a welfare check on the welfare check on the nanny. You know, I'm very curious, straight out to special guests joining us, the editor of Deadline, Detroit, former Washington Post reporter, Alan. Alan Langel, thank you for being with us. You know, this mom is no schlump. She has known this nanny, and the nanny, Samantha Rebooth, had been nannying for her for two years periodically.

I've done that a million times when I've had, here's a great example, when I was working at HLM, I had several, I had a nanny to watch the nanny, watch the children, two nannies with the twins because of all the cases I had covered and investigated, I didn't trust a nanny, so I had two nannies for just the four or five hours I would be gone plus a nanny cam, and they knew I was watching them constantly. That said, fast forward, Alan, all these years later, I mean, the twins didn't need a nanny or a babysitter once they started play school, because I could take them and pick them up. But that said, years later, when my mom, who's going to turn 94, moved in with us, I was worried about her when I would be at work. So I called those nannies,

the very same ones. Now they're granny nannies. Okay. So when you know somebody, you don't think to check them out, see if they've gone crazy on social media, because you know them. So I don't like people attacking the mom in this scenario. But tell me their history as we know it, Alan. Well, you know, I think particularly, I mean, supposedly they knew each other for two years. She was doing work.

I thought it was particularly interesting is that Katie Young, the mother, is a psychologist who on her website says she specializes in, ADHD to the tension deficit hyperactivity disorder assessments. And basically, she works with patients and assesses them. And if they have ADHD, then she refers them to either psychiatrists or works with that psychiatrist. So it happens to be that Samantha Ray Booth is supposedly one of her issues is she's ADHD. So I find it interesting.

And so it makes me wonder, and I don't know. the answer to it, but it makes me wonder if she was aware of the situation and she knew how to deal with her or what, but I think it's an interesting, at minimum, coincidence. To Dr. Janie Lacey joining us, licensed psychotherapist, CEO Life Counseling Solutions, and author of How to Heal from a Toxic Relationship, she is the host of the Resilient Professional podcast on YouTube. Dr. Janie, thank you for being with us. According to Samantha Rebooth's brother, she had no history of mental illness or drug use, none. So let me ask you about ADHD.

ADHD does not make you have either auditory or visual hallucinations. ADHD is not any sort of a mental illness at all. It's a learning issue. You're absolutely right, Nancy. ADHD is a common diagnosis that many people have when it comes to mostly focus and hyperactivity. So relating ADHD to potentially what happened, I would say that there's no correlation. It's not relatable at all. There's probably other possible contributing factors that probably contributed to this.

Dr. Janie Lacey, I find it really interesting. You mentioned psychotic break. to John Day joining us, a veteran criminal defense attorney of John Day Law Day. I'm sure that you're dancing up and down the hallway now. Psychotic break. First of all, I don't think a jury is going to buy psychotic break that leading up to the moment she stabs grandpa dead and then brags about it to police, by the way. She knew darn well what she had just done. said that was so easy. I can't believe how easy that was. I F and did him. Okay. A psychotic break to my understanding means you're fine up until a certain moment when you kill somebody. Then

right after that, you're fine again. Nitz, she's 35 years old, right? Never, apparently never had any contact with the police, no police record, no history of criminal behavior. She's worked with this family for a couple of years. Mom's a psychotherapist. You would assume that mom had some insight into behavioral issues. They trusted her with the infant for at least since she was born, apparently. So, I mean, what else happened? I mean, you've got police saying that there were some mushrooms maybe when she was arrested in marijuana. I've never seen a case where mushrooms in and of themselves led to some type of a violent murder. So, something, there's an anomaly here and we don't know what it is. And if you're trying to defend

this person who's charged with a horrific homicide, something is not right based on the fact that her 35-year history, she's clean. So if we talk about a psychotic break, there's something leading up to that? Was there other potential drug use we don't know about? Is something else going to come up? But also, I want to look at what's the behavior now and what's the behavior while she's sitting in jail? And is there something here that somebody just obviously missed a sign, including mom, who's a professional therapist? You know, we're putting a lot of the burden on the mom.

I want to remind everyone, Dave Matt, crime stories investigative reporter, she babysat periodically. She was not the full-time babysitter for the baby when mom was gone. But the mom had known her for two. years. There is no indication at all that she was using drugs at the time she has no history of drugs and her brother says she had no history of drugs or mental illness. She just stabbed the grandpa. Okay, now the mom who is reportedly out of town for work has her father come over to check on the baby. Then she can't get the father on the phone. It sounds like one of

those horrible horror movies where you pick up the phone, there's somebody creepy, and they're in your home. So she says the dad on over, he disappears. So now she can't talk to the baby. She can't talk to the babysitter. She can't talk to her father. So then she sends the brother-in-law over. Listen. Smith arrives at the home at 9.25 p.m. Front door wide open. Smith hears noises coming from the basement and calls out to the nanny. Booth does not respond. goes down to the basement and is shocked to find Booth covered in blood and David Ong lying on the floor with severe head injuries, the 83-year-old doing everything he can to protect his granddaughter. Alan Langel, explain to me what happened. The brother-in-law comes over and then what

happens? The brother-in-law comes over. He goes in the house. He hears some noise. He calls out the name of the nanny and he doesn't hear anything. He goes downstairs and he sees the grandfather on the ground there in the basement, stabbed, you know, multiple times. He grabs his niece, his, I think it's either two- or three-year-old niece, and he tries to get out of there. She comes at him and tries to attack him. He fends her off, and he tries to get out of the house, and she's coming after them. They go outside, and she's still, they're trying to run away, and she's still trying to

attack them. Finally, some neighbors let them into the house, so they call 911. She drops the screwdriver, and then she takes off all her clothes and starts running. It's crazy. I want to address one thing when we talk about drug history, and we don't know if drugs played a role or if there was just, you know, separate from that, a psychotic episode or whatever. But when people say drug history, we don't know. I mean, she was, you know, marijuana, nobody has, you know, A lot of people who don't know the person may not know their personal habits, how many drinks they have, what type of drugs they have. I mean, obviously, she had some drugs in her purse, whether she, we assume that she used those drugs at some point or another, but we don't know on that particular day. Alan, I'm asking you and Dave Mack for the facts.

Did you just say, we don't know? do you have even a scintilla of evidence, a shred, that this 35-year-old woman had a drug problem? Anything to base that on at all? No, you know, no, I mean. Oh, okay. Why do we keep talking about it? Well, only because they found the drug. I mean, you're trying to figure out this very irrational behavior.

A person turns on the grandfather, strips her clothes off, running down the street. I mean, obviously, this is not normal behavior. So you're trying to figure out what it is possibly, whether it has nothing to do with drugs, whether it was a psychotic episode or whatever. But we don't know. You know what I think, Alan? We're looking for answers.

I think that you, like many other people, are struggling with an issue I have whenever I tried a female. And I'll tell you what that is. To Tom Green, former chief deputy, Washoe County Sheriff's Office Homicide Detective, Cole case squad, it goes on and on and on, owner Nevada investigative services. Tom, here's the deal. Whenever you have a woman, particularly a woman that some people would find attractive, not me,

she looks like Billsabobb, the devil's hench person to me. But a woman that some people find attractive, they have a really hard time imagining that she's responsible for a murder. So we do all sorts of contortions to find a way to explain it away. And of course I'm going to need a shrink on this, Dr. Janie, but have you seen that? I mean, let me just throw out, here's a good one, Totmom. In comes Totemomom, Casey Anthony into court, and acts demure and sweet and pitiful and scared and diminutive, actually scrunching down in her seat to look smaller. And the jury looked to her and thought, no way.

Way. That's just one example. Have you ever encountered that time where people just, they'll say, oh, she must have had a drug problem. She didn't. She must have, fill in the blank. She didn't. Why do we do all these contortions when the killer, the defendant is a woman? Well, I think it's just a natural reaction where people want answers, like the why.

And we don't always know the why. You know, I worked a case one time with a, the woman was beautiful, but she brutally murdered her husband. And people could not wrap their head around. Why would she do that? She looks so nice. She looks so sweet and innocent. But, you know, we heard her own voice on the video that you played. She has some underlying issue of some sort.

I'm not a psychiatrist. No, you're not. So you can just stop right there. The fact that she may have an under, you know what? Is everybody on this panel trying to think of a way to absolve her of stabbing an innocent, unarmed grandpa dead? Because I am not having it. We're pretending she's on drugs. We're pretending she had a drug history.

We're pretending she had a mental illness history. Somebody said maybe she had ADHD. We know none of that. have you all lost your minds? When this mother brought her in, she was behaving perfectly, coherently. But somehow, everyone's doing somersaults and backbans to come up with an excuse. She has an issue. Well, guess what, Tom Green?

We all have an issue. I'm a woman taking care of children, a house, three pets, a crippled guinea pig, and a 94-year-old grandma. I got a lot of issues and I deal with murder every day that does not absolve me from stabbing an unarmed man with a screwdriver. Well, I listen to the lieutenant, provide his I listen to the lieutenant

provide his assessment of the crime scene and the response. He's the one that brought up drug use. He's the one that brought up potential psychosis. When I tell you I'm going places, the real ones are coming with me. I will come back for you. You know who the fuck you are. the ones who sat there abandoned me

who watched me struggle didn't support me you don't have a seat at my in a quiet Michigan town Katie Ong hires a nanny to care for her young daughter trusting her completely little does she know the nanny might be harboring sinister intentions

guys I want you to see more of this woman. Her name is Samantha Ray Booth. She's a 35-year-old female. This is what she posted online. Watch. I used to be so insecure and I had no confidence in who I was. It was in constant survival mode. Struggling to keep my anxiety at bay. I was like a walking panic attack. I drank almost every day. I hated who I was. I had an eating disorder. My relationships were tumultuous, especially the one with myself. I finally feel at peace and I feel so confident

in who I am. Do not give up hope. Of course I'm going to play that about a hundred times in front of a jury if there ever is one. That's from at impath dot illuminated on TikTok to Janie Lacey. That's Dr. Janie Lacey

renounced psychotherapist and CEO. Dr. Janie, have you ever heard of a lightning round? It's on game shows. You ever heard of that? Yes, I have Nancy. Okay, so you know the rule is a very quick answer as in yes, no. Okay, here we go.

Lightning Round, Dr. Jamie Lacey, number one, is hating yourself a mental disorder? No. Is an eating disorder a mental defect? It's diagnosable, but no. So then you just violated the lightning round rules. So no and no. Is drinking a mental defect? Okay.

No. Is anxiety a mental defect? No. Okay. Is insecurity a mental defect? No. Is being in quote survival mode a mental defect? defect.

No. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. John Day, joining me, did you just hear Samantha Ray Booth online describing all of her issues? Somebody who said that? It was either Langel or Tom Green or probably. Dave Mack said, she's got issues. Yeah, she's got issues. They're not mental defects.

None of those issues. And she was very forthright with all of her issues, aiding disorder, anxiety, no confidence in myself. Boo, who, no confidence in myself, a walking panic attack, self-hating, self-loathing, tumultuous relationships. Okay. None of those are mental defects. none of them

you're going to be hard pressed to use any type of a mental defect defense in this case because she's laying it all out there if she's talking about that she drank too much you don't think she'd blurt out on social media that she also did weed and mushrooms of course she would have

you know when you don't know a horse John Day look at her track record she's blurting everything there is to say about herself on social media she doesn't mention a thing about weed or mushrooms does she so nancy respectfully i think you're missing the point everything that all these great people on this panel has said means that i want each one of them on my jury if i'm

defending her because what everybody's doing is using their personal experience they're using their observations here they're trying to figure out a an unfathomable situation and that's what i want my jurors to be doing they're trying to use their own life experiences to come up with some reason, because it's hard to wrap your mind around what happened and why it happened. And if you don't have an easily graspable, understandable explanation for that, you're going back to your own life experience. You're going back to what you know about people. And what everybody on this panel is doing is coming up with things that might explain this away. And if I'm defending this woman, that's what I want my jurors to be doing. I don't necessarily care if there is a puzzle piece

that fits perfectly in an explanation, I just want all of them thinking what everybody on this panel has just been doing, coming up with reasons, coming up with things that might fit into a rational explanation. Before you finish your closing argument, let me stop you. Isn't it true that you said the jury will try to figure out what might have happened? isn't the standard in criminal cases beyond a reasonable doubt, not a hypothesis about what might have happened. Little green men from Mars may have beamed down and stabbed the grandpa dad.

That may have happened, but it's not a reasonable hypothesis. So without information that she absolutely was on drugs, we don't have that. falling up, even if we did have that, assuming arguendo, that we do find out she was on drugs. John Day, isn't it true that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense? Absolutely true. The voluntary use of drugs. Yeah, but what you're doing is exactly what I want the jurors, again, to be doing, because you are trying to rationalize an irrational situation, and beyond a reasonable

No, I'm not. You are. You and Tom Green and Alan Langel and Dave Mack are trying to rationalize an irrational situation because to me it's very rational. Grandpa came home to check on the baby and he was stabbed dead with a screwdriver and he's unarmed. If she had gotten into magic mushrooms or some weed, that's on her. The law is very clear.

Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is. not a defense, period. Now, in some states, in jurisdictions you have, unless and until that person is comatose. But if you're comatose, you can't move and stab somebody with a screwdriver, so that's irrelevant here. So no matter which way you guys want to turn, you're going to have to accept that this woman, who you may think looks like your daughter or your sister or your mom, that she stabbed an unarmed senior just coming to check on the grandbaby dead dead you know what let's take

another look at this woman being a light worker feels like speaking an entirely different language that most people around you cannot understand you feel alone you feel isolated you feel like how do I have this understanding of this language that I was not taught society didn't teach me this language, but it came from the inside, it came from your heart, and you have this knowing that there is another path that we can walk down, another way of operating and navigating the world and how we treat ourselves and treat nature and treat community. Okay, you know, there's just so much to drink in from that. That's from at MPF. dot illuminated on TikTok. Okay, Dr. Janie Lacey, you're the psychotherapist. I'm just a trial lawyer.

but I am coming at this from the side of the 83-year-old grandfather and his family because I know every day, every day I miss my father, Mack, who was my soulmate. I miss him every day. And I imagine, I know that I am projecting, that the victim's family feels the same way about him. He goes in to check on the baby and he gets stabbed dead multiple times. with a screwdriver. And I can't help it. I'm putting my dad in his shoes.

And I will be D-A-M-N-E-D if I'm going to let everybody argue, oh, she got into magic mushrooms, poor thing. Oh, hell no. That is not going to work for me. Now, here she's saying she is a, quote, light worker, and she speaks an entirely different language that most people, I guess that's me, cannot understand. You feel alone, isolate.

those are not mental defects. How do I understand this language I was not taught? She may be zany, but she is not insane because she gets in this car. You can see her in her car. She sets up a video cam on herself. She loves to post online. She's coherent. She's well kept. She's got on makeup. She's done her hair. She's talking about, I guess, the cult that she's starting. this woman is not insane dr janey i agree with you nancy she had extreme of violent behavior she took this poor innocent man's life who was protecting his daughter so when we look at the behavioral presentations of what is the documented digital uh record of her life she's very conscious in a sense that she's using a lot of language that shows that she was actually

doing her inner work. She used the word inner child. She's using the light worker. She believes that she's a light to humanity and has a higher consciousness. So this is the record from her saying that she's sane. She's present and that she's doing her work, so to speak, from her potential trauma that she alluded to in some of her previous videos that you show. That is not someone who I got to ask you a question, Dr. Jamie Lacey. I'm just wondering if you function. You know when medical doctors don't like you to go to WebMD. They hate it when you Google what you perceive. And of course, I do it on myself. Everybody around me, I Google their symptoms and I diagnose them. Do you just hate it when somebody has read so many self-help books that they diagnose themselves and start

treating themselves? What is an inner child? I've heard that a lot. What does that mean? as she refers to the inner child and the third person. So basically what the inner child comes from. It comes from childhood trauma work. So the childhood trauma work is if someone has experienced trauma in their history, that they get stuck at that point or they had some type of emotional needs that was not met. So the inner child means the adult self goes back and protects. It's kind of like you become your own parent and you go back and you acknowledge the things

that you needed as a young child or the things. that you, that happened to you were not your fault. So it's connecting your adult self with your inner, with the parts of you that were frozen and what we call frozen that were unhealed of things that have happened in your history. It's related to a lot of trauma work. Okay. I'm going to try to drink in everything that you just said. That's a lot.

And I'm very curious about why Samantha Ray Booth is diagnosing herself. She does not have a mental defect, except that she had an eating disorder. She has self-loathing and she drinks too much. That said, let's listen to her on her higher purpose of bringing light, love, and healing to the world. Being a light worker feels like speaking an entirely different language that most people around you cannot understand. You feel alone.

You feel isolated. You feel like, how do I have this understanding of this language that I was not taught? Society didn't teach me this language, but it came from the inside. It came from your heart. and you have this knowing that there is another path that we can walk down, another way of operating and navigating the world and how we treat ourselves and treat nature and treat community. From impath dot illuminated on TikTok.

Concerned after not hearing from the nanny, Katie asks her father, David, to check on her daughter. Upon arrival, he discovers his granddaughter missing. What happens next? The grandpa comes in, 83, the daughter doesn't hear back from him. she sends brother-in-law over. He walks in and Samantha Ray Booth comes at him like a bat out of hell. Just keep that visual wielding a screwdriver. He somehow manages to pick up the tot girl and run. Listen to this. Smith and his niece are sent to the hospital. First responders tend to David Ong in the basement.

The 83-year-old man, his family calls the gentle giant, is laying on the floor. Massive injuries to his head. Ong is pronounced dead on the scene in the basement, giving up his own life, protecting his three-year-old granddaughter. Straight out to a special guest joining us. Dr. Thomas Coyne, the chief medical examiner, district two medical examiner's office, state of Florida. He is a forensic pathologist. He's a toxicologist. He is a neuropathologist. And you can find him on X at Dr. T.M. C-O-Y-N-E.

Dr. Coyne, thank you for taking time away from your crushing schedule of autopsies. Tell me about a screw driver attack. And I've covered and investigated myself so many homicides. I've often thought a knife attack is worse than a shooting. It's just a gut reaction having investigated so many cases and tried so many cases. but I haven't contemplated death by screwdriver. Are the punctureroons with a screwdriver different from the puncturoons from a knife? Well, they tend to be smaller, right?

Because the diameter of the screwdriver is much smaller than the blade of a knife. And so you tend to have either circular or flat wounds depending on the type of screwdriver. So you can imagine if you've ever used the Phillips had screwdriver, the tip of that screwdriver comes down to a point There's like a little X there. And in the skin of a person who's been stabbed by, you know, Phillips has screwdriver, you may actually see a circular hole with an X mark where that tint penetrated through the skin. Whereas a flathead screwdriver, you may see a small little flat slit with blunt,

little abrasions. And so you tend to have characteristic wounds that are smaller than a knife wound. And you'll see them distributed very often, you know, in critical areas. Okay, now, Dr. Coyne, I'm going to do it yourself,er, and there are a lot of different sizes of screwdrivers. It could be the little e-d-p-d-one that you do your eyeglasses with, if you wear eyeglasses, or the really big ones that we use when my son was doing his Eagle Scout project. So, why are you assuming it's a small screwdriver? Well, I'm not assuming. I'm just saying the actual diameter of the screwdriver itself.

So regardless of whether it's a long screwdriver, the actual diameter of the two portion itself. So for instance, you know, when you see a wound on a person, that may be like a, you know, less than a half of an inch where a bleed, let's say, of a regular, let's say, steak night that you have in your house, maybe an inch or two inches. And so the actual wound itself tends to be smaller, often circular, especially if you're using it, Philip said. you know there's something about an attack with a screwdriver dr coin i feel that it would be even more painful than a knife attack because the screwdriver the point is more blunt and it would be harder to pierce the skin i'm sure you can verbalize my reaction what would you how would you respond to that well i think you know i mean it's a lot easier for a night to go in because it has a cutting edge so it'll go through the skin much easier requires less

force. When you're using a more blunt object, you have to use much more force. So yeah, I would imagine each blow would be more forceful. I'm assuming a person who's being attacked is probably also in a state of shock. So they may not feel the pain up front. But what's really the problem here is if it's a long screwdriver, number one, it can go in further so it could penetrate the heart. And if you hit a critical area like the temporal portion of your skull, the thinnest part of our skull. That screwdriver, if you're using it in a force, can go right into the brain. And so you can incapacitate a person pretty fast if you hit the right spot. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

You know, Dr. Coyne, I was noticing what we've been able to glean so far is that the grandpa, 83 years old, had a lot of injuries to the head. and face, which I find not only probative as to why someone stabs a victim in the face, but you just said temple, temple area.

You think of a temple as somewhere you worship. Why is that part of your head called the temple? That's a good question. I don't know the original Greek anatomists who were naming all of the bones. It's the temporal

bones, so that's probably where it derives its name from. And so the temple region is the area of skin that overlies our temporal bone. I don't know the meaning behind why they chose that particular word, but that's why we refer to it as a temple. Well, she's not called the naked nanny for nothing, but try to put your prurient thoughts aside and listen to what Samantha Ray Booth said after the killing. Samantha Ray Booth drops the screwdriver and her clothes. When police arrive, she's completely naked, covered in blood, and takes off running through the neighborhood. Officers apprehend the 35-year-old nanny and place her in the squad car, where she begins to brag about the damage she just caused to the Ong family.

Allegedly telling officers, I effed him up, and yes, I did it. It was too easy. Okay, there you go. Alan Langell joining us, editor of Deadline, Detroit, formerly with the Washington Post as an investigative reporter. That's not easy to get to. Alan, let me rephrase the so-called naked nanny says, I have him up, and yes, I did it. It was just too easy. There's your poor wounded deer that you're all trying to,

exonerate with an acclaimed drug problem or mental defect bragging about killing grandpa. I don't think any of us are trying to exonerate. I think as other people have said, we're trying to understand how the switch got clicked from this very, what appeared to be a caring nanny, a very articulate, introspective person to really an insane person who just lost it. And when we talk about the circumstances, she's charged with first. degree murder, which if you look at the totality of the circumstances, and I defer to the lawyers here, be pretty hard. First degree murder in Michigan is mandatory life without parole. Second degree murder can be life, but with the possibility of parole.

And so in the totality of just all the circumstances, I think you'd be hard pressed to convict or plea to first degree in there. But I don't think any of us are trying to say she should be exonerated. It's insane. I mean, it was a brutal, brutal thing of an elderly gentleman who seemed very loving and caring. He had four children, had a very successful career, cared about his grandchild. It's a tragedy. It's horrific. And none of us are saying she should go free.

The question will be whether she's currently mentally competent to stand trial. if she were to go to trial, but I'm not, I'm not trying to make excuses for her. Just because she's stripped, just because, well, you are, you are. Why are you saying she's merely incompetent? It's insane behavior. It's insane behavior. I'm sorry. So what, oh, so her murder is insane while all the other murders, they make perfect sense.

Oh, yes. No, I'm, no, well, you are doing this because she's young and cute and you like what she's doing on TikTok. Yeah. You're all making excuses for her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what else you did? You know what else you did? You can't be on the jury because you're already worried about sentencing. John Day, I know you're not going to like this, but you have tried a lot of cases and isn't it true? The jury is not to be concerned about sentencing. They are to speak. They are to render a verdict that speaks the truth. And you guys don't like it because she's young. And to you guys, she's cute. And you can't imagine. her committing a murder. So she's got to be insane or have a mental defect. He's already saying, Langel is already saying, she'll get life without parole. We can't do that to her.

Oh, yes, you can. No matter what the judge says, every juror considers the effects of a conviction, one way or the other. And no matter, the judge is going to say, put that out of your minds, it's not your job. But the reality is, Nancy, we both know from doing trial work that that's not what jurors do. They have that somewhere in the back of their mind. We can't pretend that they're not going to be thinking about that. But again, what everyone's doing is what I, if I was defending this case, as a private lawyer or public defender, would be thinking about.

We'd want the jury to think about. Hey, Samantha, can you cover yourself and come to the window? Like the attorney said, this is going to happen whether you want it to or not. So we might as well just be done with, okay? He's trying to help you. He's laying on the floor at the moment. Completely naked. You're in the middle of the cell with no close on.

John Day is joining us, veteran criminal defense attorney, who founded John Day Law. John. Do you have children? I do. Did you ever have one throw themselves in the floor and have a fit? I'm sure it happened, but it may have been, you know, age two or three, possibly. Yes, okay. Both of my children, one time.

each one of them, Lucy and John David, flung themselves in the floor and had a fit, kicking, screaming, yanking at their clothes, the whole thing. I just looked at them and walked off, and guess what, that worked. Here to Alan Langel, we have Samantha Ray Booth, throw herself in the floor of her cell, and strip when it's time for arraignment. Not before, not after, but just when it's time for arraignment. Talk about attention seeking. I'm just putting it out there.

Thoughts. I mean, she could be manipulated. She could be, you know, I mean, the message is, I'm crazy, I'm insane, just in the totality of the whole thing there, but could she be creating drama? Does she know what she's doing? You know, it's hard to say. I think obviously she needs to be evaluated to get in a, you know, so. With that, Alan Langel, I agree. I don't want to. anyone with a mental defect put into GP general population. They will be horribly tormented, tortured, taking advantage of. I don't want that.

I also don't want a killer to walk free. Dave Mack, did I just hear you state under your breath, Pretty is as Pretty Does? Did you say that? Yeah. What do you mean by Pretty Is as Pretty Does? Because you've mentioned that, you know, we might think, she's attractive and that's why we're trying to justify her actions and I'm saying no absolutely

not you know you're as pretty as your actions are and her actions are filthy and evil and I'm not looking for a reason to justify her actions I am looking at Satan who just showed up and put a screwdriver in an 83 year old man's head over and over question what happens now Dave Mack, she has been naked, arraigned for premeditated murder. What's happening next? No bail for her, and she actually is scheduled for her next court appearance on the 7th. Well, John Day will have a field day putting all of you on his jury. He's already revealed his trial tactic, and he might just succeed.

This case is being built now, and we have heard from her boyfriend who says just before the stabbings, that she stated she knew the grandpa was coming over to relieve her for a meal break. That's damning. It's damning because she was in her right mind, and she was not surprised by the grandpa when he came in the door. That is a damning face time, and I expect he will be called as a state's witness. If you know or think you know anything about this case, please dial the Royal Oak PD 248, 246, 3,000. Repeat, 248, 246, 3,000. We remember an American hero, senior patrol officer Daniel Ellis, Richmond, PD, Kentucky. shot and killed in the line of duty after seven years serving and protecting,

leaving behind his wife turned widow, Katie, and son, Luke, American hero, Senior Patrol Officer Daniel Ellis. Nancy Gray signing off. Goodbye, friend.