Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Naked Waffle House killer leaves 4 dead, on the run, swears star Taylor Swift is stalking HIM

Episode Date: April 23, 2018

The Illinois man suspected of killing four people with an assault rifle in a Tennessee Waffle House told police last year he believed Taylor Swift was stalking him and had even stolen his Netflix password. Nancy Grace digs into the weekend massacre, the search for the shooter, and the hero who saved lives. Grace is joined in this episode by defense lawyer Jason Oshins, psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan,  reporter Chuck Roberts and RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Grace also looks at the latest arrests of men who are stalking Taylor Swift. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A high school girl, straight A's, a hockey star, a lacrosse star is found brutally murdered and buried in a shallow grave at a local park, Lincoln Park. Her boyfriend is soon identified and he's convicted of the murder. But now after a high profile podcast called Serial insists that he's innocent, is he getting a new trial and set to walk to add insult to injury? The victim, little Hay, Hay Lee's family cannot speak English. They and she have no voice. Well, you know what? They're getting one. They're getting a voice.

Lady Justice, are you listening? A&E, Thursday night, 11 p.m. We want justice for Hay Lee. And that means to many court watchers that her killer Adnan Syed stays behind bars. Thursday night, 11 p.m. A&E, Grace versus Abrams. Please join us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. The manhunt intensifying for 29-year-old Travis Reinking. The central Illinois native accused of opening fire on a Tennessee Waffle House, killing four and injuring four others.

Witnesses say the suspect, Travis Reinking, was only wearing a green jacket when he opened fire. And the assault rifle Reinking allegedly used during the shooting was taken away from him by police last year, only to be returned to him by his own father. They say he started shooting outside before going inside, where he was confronted by a customer, 29-year-old James Shaw Jr. We were scuffling, and I managed to get him with one hand on the gun, and then I grabbed it from him, and I threw it over the countertop. After church Sunday, we went out for a big time at the Waffle House, and it was awesome. I saw all my favorite waiters and waitresses. We played music on the jukebox. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking about the naked gunman wearing just a green jacket with an assault rifle who stormed a Waffle House in Nashville early, early Sunday morning, leaving four people dead.

And right now, he's still on the run as we learn his dad gave him an AR-15. Could that possibly be true? Not only that, he thinks Taylor Swift is stalking him. You know, forget about the dad and the Taylor Swift fixation. He's on the run for already dead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star lineup, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, high-profile defense lawyer Jason Oceans, LA psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Crime Stories investigative

reporter Chuck Roberts. Chuck, let's start at the beginning sunday morning what happened it is uh nancy 319 sunday morning a little town just southeast of nashville about 20 minutes south of downtown nashville and uh travis ranking who is 29 years old sits in his pickup truck for four or five minutes before getting out with his ar-15 rifle, again wearing nothing but a green jacket. He shoots two people standing outside the restaurant and then goes inside and continues shooting. Four people die, a 29-year-old from Goodersville, a 20-year-old from Nashville, a young woman from Gallatin, and a young woman from Antioch, the actual city where this happened. You know, hold on, Chuck. Russell.

Chuck, hold on just a moment. When I'm hearing this story, guys, we're talking about the naked Waffle House shooter. As a former prosecutor, I try to piece things together and make sense of them. Why did this happen? Why do I care? Because it could tell me what's going to happen in the future. And what is one of the many disturbing factors about this is there is no known motive. That means we don't know why he did it or if he's going to do it again.

He wasn't trying to get back at a girlfriend. He wasn't angry having been fired from the Waffle House. He didn't trying to get back at a girlfriend. He wasn't angry having been fired from the Waffle House. He didn't have a bad waffle. Nothing. Which means he's out there, likely armed, and we don't know why he murdered four and wounded four others. But right now, hold on, take a listen to Nashville Police Spokesperson Don Aaron. A gunman who we fully believe to be Travis Reinking arrived in the Waffle House parking lot in a pickup truck at 3.19 a.m. He sat in that truck for three and a half to four minutes. of the vehicle at about 3 23 a.m. he immediately used an assault type rifle to shoot two individuals who are outside of the restaurant they were fatally wounded he then went inside the restaurant continued firing one other

person inside the restaurant was fatally wounded then an individual who was in the Waffle House a patron patron, when he heard the gunshots actually ran back to the restroom area. He watched the gunman. He reported that he saw the gunman looking at his rifle. At that point, the shots had stopped, so he decided to rush the gunman, actually wrestled that assault rifle away, tossed it over the counter. At that point, the gunman then fled. As he was in the Waffle House, he was wearing only a green jacket.

No pants, no shirt, just a green jacket. As he reached the corner of the street next to the Waffle House, he shed the jacket and continued southbound on Murfreesboro Pike. Our investigation to this point shows that he lives at an apartment complex in this area. We are suspecting, based on witness reports to this juncture, that he made his way to the apartment complex, either inside the apartment or somewhere near it, and has since clothed himself with a pair of pants. A witness at the apartment complex reported seeing a man in the wood line wearing black pants, no shirt,

moving away from the apartment complex in the woods. We know he has a driver's license from Illinois, from Morton, Illinois. We don't know what he was doing in Nashville. We have been in contact with other law enforcement agencies who are aware of him. Both federal and state law enforcement agencies have knowledge of Travis Ryan King due to previous interactions. Again, why he is in Nashville and what prompted this this morning has not been determined. I will tell you that our hero in this matter is a 29-year-old man, a patron, and it's very similar to the report that we gave at the church

shooting in Nashville last year. You had a citizen step up to intervene with an active shooter and that's what this man did. He is the hero here and no doubt he saved many lives by wrestling the gun away and then tossing it over the counter and prompting the man to leave. Don, do you all have any reason to believe he had additional rounds to reload while he was in there or planned to do that? The jacket that he shed did have ammunition cartridges in it. You were just hearing National Police Spokesperson Don Aaron describing what happened. We're talking about 29-year-old Travis Ranking, who has shot dead four people,

injured at least four others at a local Waffle House, Antioch, Nashville. Now, this is what we're learning now. His family says he, Ranking, believes Taylor Swift is stalking him in his Illinois hometown, which may be the reason he's come to Nashville. He, well, wait a minute. Doesn't, isn't Taylor Swift often in Nashville? Um, he tells his family, uh, about this. His family has called the cops before, and he believes that Taylor Swift is hacking into his phone and into his Netflix account. Now, remember this also. In 2017, he was the one arrested for scaling a fence near the White House. The White House, as in the nation's capital? This is the same House. The White House as in the nation capital. This is the same guy. Why is he out after trying to get into the White House? That's a whole nother can of worms. Dr. Bethany Marshall,

a high profile psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. Dr. Bethany, I remember the first time I actually met someone who had these ideas that they were being stalked or followed and it was a perfectly normal acting secretary she typed that was her job when I was a fed before I became a violent crime prosecutor I did antitrust and consumer protection. And Virginia's job was to type. She would type up letters or memoranda, whatever. She typed. She was perfectly normal, right? She brought her lunch every day.

She was very quiet, very sweet lady, great, great worker at what she did well long story short she missed a few days of work and we found out upon questioning she was um what do you say when you think people are stalking you she thought that the government was slipping poison under her doorstep at her apartment she thought that she was being hacked and people were listening in on her phone. What is that? That's something called delusional disorder. And people who have delusional disorder are very interesting in that their delusions are quite extensive. Like you said, usually they feel that somebody has planted a listening device. Usually the government is brought in on the delusion. Usually they have some high profile

or high ranking official or celebrity with whom they become preoccupied. But the interesting thing about these individuals is that they look normal. Delusional disorder does not make them look crazy or manic or psychotic the other thing is they're obsessed with delusions they will spend hours like writing on the internet or in their journals or talking to people about it i've never had a person with delusional disorder last more than one day in my office because the minute they sense that I'm not interested in the delusions and I want them to get better, they lose interest in treatment. And the other thing, Nancy, there is no medication or effective form of therapy that can help these people. Well, this is what I know on and on.

He may think Taylor Swift is after him, but who's after him is the long arm of the law right now because he's gunned down four people in a waffle house and you know who those four people could have been me david and the twins and grandmommy this past sunday all right so it's these are completely innocent people some of them just getting off late night jobs and they're hungry families are in there that have been on the road and this guy comes in and starts shooting and he would have shot more had it not been for a true hero named James Shaw jr. now I want you to listen to Shaw because like so many true heroes, he's awfully humble. Listen. No, I just consider myself, I was, like I said, in that cage and I had the opportunity to

either act or not act. And I chose to act because either way, in my mind, I saw if I don't act, it's death. If I do act, I have a stronger possibility of living than just letting him come through the door. So I just see myself like as a regular guy. I didn't mean to do this to be the hero by any means. It was just kind of like survival of the fittest type thing.

I'm sorry I couldn't get to the guy any faster. We could have got him out in the parking lot or something like that, but I didn't know he was going to come in there armed to the teeth like that. There was no way for me to know that he was going to come in there armed to the teeth like that. There was no way for me to know that he was going to do that. I'm sorry for your family, your loved ones. I'm kind of speechless. I really don't. All I can say is words, but it's going to hurt, so.

You were just hearing from a true hero who says he doesn't consider himself a hero. You know, Jason Oceans, high-profile defense attorney, joined me out of the Jersey and New York area. You and I have handled so many cases, me prosecuting, you defending. And you and I, Jason, would spend hours, literally hours, on the court TV set in a dark studio watching trials. And usually the trials we covered were murder or mass murder trials. And very often a hero would emerge. Isn't it true, Jason? And so often in the courthouse you see heroes. They can be EMTs.

They can be firefighters. They can be cops. They can be regular people like James Shaw EMTs. They can be firefighters. They can be cops. They can be regular people like James Shaw Jr. And almost to a fault, they never concern was for what he couldn't have done faster or understand what was going on. So that's just the nature of the good with the evil as we have in this situation, a really horrible, tragic situation. And I'm trying to figure out what's going to happen to this guy. Because when you look at him in some of his photos, he looks like he's like a freshman at Cal State. He just looks like a regular guy. He's anything but a regular guy. Right now, this guy, Travis Rankin, 29 years old, home, family home in

Morton, Illinois, is surrounded by FBI. They're trying to figure out, is he headed from Nashville en route to Illinois? We know this. He was armed with what we believe to be an AR-15. Right now, Travis ranking on the run. The Waffle House shooter, a naked guy, guns down four innocent people, still on the run right now with delusions singing sensation taylor swift is stalking him and his delusion goes further than that he's got it all figured out that she's hacking into his phone and his netflix account okay i'm gonna get off taylor swift hacking into

his phone and his netflix account and on to the crime and the victims in this case. For those of you just joining us, Travis ranking age 29 right now is on the run. Many believe he's headed from Nashville to his family home in Morton, Illinois. I want you to hear from an eyewitness, Brennan McMurray, who was at the Waffle House with his friend-turned-hero, James Shaw, as he describes when the carnage occurred. It was just like pow, pow, pow, pow. It was like somebody was just going to town on a bass drum, and it was, it wasn't the easiest thing. I just told people jump in the bathrooms as quick as you can. And so we pushed a couple girls into the back bathroom, and then me, a guy, and another lady, we went into my bathroom and locked it. And the shots just got louder.

I was totally scared to open the door, so we waited the 10 seconds. We heard no gunshots. Then you open the door and you cautiously peek out. We saw the magazine on the floor. There was a lady face down. She was gone. There was another lady with her head kind of tilted back on the bottom of the actual booth. She was bleeding. Her leg was like completely ripped up to shreds. And then we walked out the door and then literally there was a man right there, just head gone. Look up the sidewalk. There's another one gone, seeing that type of, yeah,

I'll never leave those, yeah, no, I'll never leave. We are on the lookout, Bolo, be on the lookout for 29-year-old Travis Rankin at this hour. Many believe he's headed from Nashville toward Morton, Illinois after killing four and wounding many others. You know, with me is forensics expert for professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, you are a death investigator. I've been on so many homicide scenes and autopsies, I couldn't even begin to count them. When you hear the hero, James Saw Jr. friend, Brennan McMurray, trying to describe what he saw, you know what, Joe Scott, unless you see it, you'd never believe it.

Because, you know, you watch these movies and the TV shows that are legal or crime dramas. They are so airbrushed. They are so produced. It's nothing like what homicide really is. It is nasty. It smells horrible. It's gritty. There is dirt and dust on the floor.

There's dry, coagulated blood. I mean, I don't even want to go on. It's nothing you ever want to revisit. And here you've got civilians trying to describe a mass murder scene, Joe Scott. Yeah, it's striking, Nancy, anytime. And I can reflect back to all of those cases that I've seen. And plus, you know, when I teach forensic science to my students, I always tell them this when you're working these kind of cases. You're always trying to make sense of the abnormal in the context of the normal. And you and I both are, you know, Southerners. You know, we've spent a lot of time, my family and I, we're at Waffle House yesterday, as a matter of fact, after church.

And, you know, you go into these places where you normally feel safe. And, you know, like you, I know the waiters at our one little Waffle House here in Jacksonville. It's a place of peace. It's a place of enjoyment for our family. We love going there. I mean, Joe Scott, when the children would get out of school early or say it was that they always have a half day when they go for Christmas or Thanksgiving, that's where we go. That's our big celebration.

We go to the Waffle House. Yeah, it is. And there were many nights when I was working, back in the day when I was still on, it was the only thing that was open. I remember spending Christmas Eve at about very late at night, it was the only thing that was open. I remember spending Christmas Eve at about, you know, very late at night. It was the only place that was open. I was working by myself. And it's just kind of like, you know, a little piece of home when you walk in. So, yeah, you walk in and then you contextualize it by seeing high velocity blood spatter.

You see where people have struggled just to try to get to a point of safety out of the line of fire, away from this great harm that they they sense. You know, this young man had described it. It sounded like somebody beating on a drum. And when you're on the end of that muzzle and it just it's a cacophony of sound that just surrounds this environment. And this and I can only imagine the context of a Waffle House. It's not huge. You know, you're in this little box with these other people, the screams. There's total chaos. And, yeah, he described this woman's leg being ripped to shreds.

That's what the nature of this weapon is and what it has the potential to do. And he walked in. It's a very, very scary situation. And what's even scarier, Nancy, is the fact that this person is still out there. He's walking around among us. He's driving around among us. No one knows where he's going. Dr. Bethany was talking about he's obsessed over this one point.

Who knows? Who knows where he's going? And it's very scary. I pray for these police officers i hope that they get this guy off the street immediately well you know correct me if i'm wrong chuck roberts uh chuck roberts joining me crime stories investigative reporter but he has had other incidents where he believes taylor swift is after him um ranking had several run-ins with police in illinois before he moves to Nashville,

where Taylor Swift starts her career. He knows that. He knows all about Taylor Swift. He had the run-in in Washington, D.C., when he tried to climb over a fence near the White House. On one incident, I told you that he thinks Taylor Swift is hacking into his phone in Netflix. And just May, he thought Swift was stalking him in person. In that incident, he told police that Swift was following him and wanted to meet him at a nearby Dairy Queen. So he goes to the Dairy Queen to meet Swift. And he says he sees Swift across the street who yells at him.

He chased her in an attempt to have her stop harassing him. He says he follows Taylor up the side of a building and onto the roof. And when he gets to the roof, Taylor Swift is gone. And he has had at least five run-ins with Illinois police before he moves to Nashville, as I said, where Taylor started her music career. Chuck Roberts, I don't think it's any coincidence that she started her music career there, and he leaves Morton, Illinois to go to Nashville. Exactly.

And, you know, in one of those incidents in May 2016 where he said Taylor Swift was stalking him, he had made comments to police about killing himself. So obviously, you know, he is not of right mind. He said that she's tapping his computer and his phone, and he talks about barking like dogs outside his home. He felt like he was being watched and that people are baiting him into breaking the law. But he said it all started when he started writing to Taylor Swift.

Now, curiously, Taylor Swift lives in Soho. She lives in Manhattan. And only this past weekend was another stalker hit with an order of protection after breaking in to Taylor Swift's Soho townhouse. That person is under arrest, as a matter of fact. She just can't catch her break. You know, there was the DJ. Exactly right. Now the stalker goes in her home and takes a shower and a nap in her home. And now this guy. Now listen to this to Travis ranking who is on the run right now after the incident Where he approached a Secret Service agent saying he wanted to speak to the president. He refused to leave He was given 32 hours of community service

To complete by a DC Superior Court and more to stay away from the White House catch this The case was dropped. It was just dropped in November because the judge said Rankin had completed the diversion program. And trying to get it to the White House, I mean, it just, it was over and done and nothing happened. And now four people are dead? Now, it was after this D.C. incident, the FBI coordinated with Illinois State Police

and Tazewell County to revoke his gun license. Listen to this. That's according to WKRN. He had a carry permit. He had a carry permit in Illinois. They got them away from him. They were given to his father. Did the father give them back?

All I know, four people are dead in a Waffle House, others injured. Take a listen to what another witness at the Waffle House says. This witness named Chuck. It's just all really surreal. It's just horrible. I mean, you see people laying on the ground, you know what just happened. And you're right, you see it happen all the time, but when it happens right in front of you, it's kind of hard to forget it. It's kind of hard to put it aside. It's sad. It's tragic. And your buddy, T, he was a cook here at Waffle House, right?

Yeah, he was a cook. He was outside on his cigarette break. He actually waved at me, which is why I got out of my car to go talk to him while I waited for the crowd to chill out inside, and it just didn't happen that way. And so were there a lot of people inside? Can you kind of describe the atmosphere to me? I mean, I know this is a place that people come just to hang out and, you know, grab a bite to eat on the weekend. Well, once the bars close, these places get quite busy. When I pulled up here, there was about 30 people inside. My normal spot was taken, and so I was going to wait outside

until the crowd died down a little bit and this all happened. But there were about 30 people inside. I found out the name of the gentleman who wrestled the gun away is James Shaw Jr. And if he had not done what he did when he did, I heard that the guy had more ammunition in his jacket. This could have been a lot worse. I mean, it's tragic and it's terrible as it is. It could have been a lot worse if not for James Shaw Jr. You actually saw the man who was responsible for knocking the gun away. Can you kind of describe to me the moments leading up to that and describe that moment?

Well, I guess when the shooting started, I wasn't inside. But from what I understand, when the shooting started, this gentleman went towards the bathrooms. And there's a door, so he was able to be behind this door. And he saw that when the gunman paused for a minute to look at his weapon, to either reload it or to look at it, he came from behind the door and started wrestling with the guy. So as soon as he saw a moment where he wasn't firing, he jumped on him, and he saved some people's lives. 100% true. You lost your good friend, T. Can you kind of just say a few words about him?

These are my Waffle House friends. I don't see them on the weekends. I don't see them away from Waffle House. But they take real good care of me when I come in here. T was always real friendly. You know, hey, what's up, man? We were just buddy-buddy. You know, I look forward to coming here and seeing these people

because they are so friendly. And he was just a great guy. I mean, I don't know him personally. I don't know his family or anything, but I know him from here. And every time I came here, we talked, we hung out, we joked, we laughed. Good people. Can you kind of describe the demeanor of the suspect to me? Like I said, I was sitting in my car looking at the crowd waiting for them to go.

I did not see him pull up. I only saw him get out when I got out. And his demeanor was he got out and started shooting his gun immediately. He did not say nothing to nobody. No hesitation. He just got out and shot the two people outside, shot through the windows and then stepped inside and kept going until Mr. Shaw took care of him. This is what we know. We know the weapon was an AR-15 that was used in the shooting. Another rifle and long gun were found in Rankin's apartment. They have not been able to locate the fourth, and that's what's worrying me. We believe the fourth weapon is a pistol. Many people are assuming Rankin's father gave him the four guns back,

or maybe he got them back on his own. But I believe those are the four guns we know of. The AR-15 has been found. That was used at the Waffle House mass shooting. Another rifle and long gun found in his apartment, the fourth, we believe, is a pistol. Now, how did he get them back? Don't know. We know this about the family. We know that his family owns a crane rental business in the area, so they own their own business. Neighbors described, quote, he was raised in a really good Christian home, but they haven't seen Rankin in months. Now, we also know that SWAT members went door to door at his apartment, Discovery Mountain View Apartments. That's in Nashville. Some residents in the building were asked to evacuate, thinking he might be there.

Others were told to lock their doors and stay inside. Can you imagine getting that message in the middle of the night? Now, neighbors also state that they hardly ever saw him, but they heard him playing really loud music, but they hardly ever saw him. We also know, to Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, that police have combed the woods where he was last seen slinking away from his apartment. Joe Scott, it's hard to get evidence out in the woods. Yeah, yeah, it is because it's such a convoluted area that's out there. And he's been on foot for a while now, I would imagine.

And I'm just speculating here that they've got dogs that are working this case. I would imagine dogs are a big part. And also I've been reading reports where you've got Nashville helicopters, that is Nashville Metro helicopters that are flying over trying to track him. I can't imagine that on foot he would have gotten too terribly far away. This is a densely populated area. So the police are having to be very, very careful. You can imagine how terrified people are when you best watch that. This guy's on the run. For all I know, he's still in Nashville.

Many people believe he is either en route to Taylor Swift's place. I don't know how he's going to find her, or back home to Illinois. We know that patients remain at the Vanderbilt University Medical Center, one in critical condition, another stable and our prayers go out to that one person, especially in critical condition. Four dead, many others injured at the Waffle House shooting. I want you to take a listen to this. The main

question we've been getting today is regarding confiscation of firearms. On August 24th, 2017, Tazewell County deputies confiscated the firearm owner's identification card of Travis Rinking and pursuant to revocation by the Illinois State Police. At that time, Mr. Rinking voluntarily voluntarily surrendered four firearms. His father was present and had had an FOID card, a valid FOID card, and had the legal right to take custody of the weapons. So he was allowed to do that after he assured deputies that he would keep them secure and away from Travis. We have no information about how Travis came back into possession of those firearms after August 24th. The bottom line is that the father had the legal right to possess the weapons.

Of the weapons that we see that you have listed here, one of them was a Bushmaster. Is that what we all call the standard assault rifle style weapon? A Bushmaster, I believe, is an AR-15 in this case. And that was confiscated from him? Yes. And turned over to his father, correct? Yes. The officers did not believe they had any legal authority to withhold the weapons. Seizure of a person's property is a constitutional rights issue, and it's a very serious matter,

and we need to be on solid legal ground in order to seize someone's property. And it's our understanding of the law that under Illinois law, with the father possessing a valid Illinois FOID card that he had the right to possess the weapons. That's something that's under investigation and as I said in the statement we don't have any information how the young man got the weapons back. I did see the Nashville chief of police on television a little earlier and he indicated that

possessing the weapons in Tennessee would not have been a violation for Travis so he's he was not legal under Illinois law to possess the firearms Illinois has has made a decision several years ago to pass a law requiring every firearm owner to possess a firearm owner's identification card. And those are issued by the state police, and that can vary from state to state. Tennessee has no similar law. Obviously, we're aware of him. We've had dealings with him before, and we believe that he was involved in an incident

at the White House last summer. So the federal and state authorities were instrumental in having his FOID card revoked in August. So he is someone we were aware of. I think anybody who reads the police reports that we have here that I've given you copies of would conclude that there's certainly evidence that there's some sort of mental health issues involved. You were hearing there regarding the gun seizure. The reward for capturing the alleged Waffle House shooter, Travis Rankine, is climbing. Here's the tip line, 615-862-8600. Repeat, 615-862-8600.

Now, the Waffle House shooting had a very odd, bizarre connection to music star Taylor Swift in that the Waffle House shooter believes Taylor Swift is stalking him. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, Taylor Swift just can't catch a break. Her third stalker this month has broken into her New York City townhouse, takes a shower, and climbs into her bed, I can only assume naked, for a nap. Does it never end for this poor girl? I mean, you never see her boozing, coming out of bars without her underwear like so many others. She's working. She's minding her own business. She's writing songs. She's setting a good role model. What? Her third stalker this month takes a shower and climbs in her bed for a nap.

What if she had been there? With me, Alexis Tereszczuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com. Does it never end for this poor girl? It doesn't. And this is the third guy this month. And what he did is, this is amazing to me because it's in the middle of New York City. This is not even one of her properties out that she has in Tennessee or in the Northeast that are secluded. This was in the middle of New York City. Someone takes a ladder and climbs over the wall at her place. She takes

every precaution to stay safe. She is very careful with this. Climbs over the ladder, breaks into the house, goes in her room goes in her bedroom takes a shower has enough time there this hasn't alerted anybody and then climbs into her bed and falls asleep this is all she is luckily luckily not there and then her security comes in and finds him she is so lucky that she has so many people out there protecting her. Because if she had been in there, this could have been terrible for her. I just don't understand how in the middle of New York City you can get a ladder.

It's a three-story townhome. You can get a ladder in plain view, put it up, lean it up against the building, and get into the building, and nobody notices. I can tell you this morning, heads would be rolling on the so-called security team. So Jason Ocean's a high-profile defense attorney in the New York area. Jason, to be a bona fide burglary, you have to go into the home for a felonious purpose. You enter the home with the intent to commit a burglary, i.e. stealing something, assaulting somebody, killing somebody.

He went in and took a shower and got in her bed. Is that a burglary? You got criminal trespass for sure. you still have a breaking and and entering i don't know if there's a commercial component to it to that type of building i would add into the charge in new york regardless of uh of what the uh you know her specific residence was he's being held on seventy five thousand dollars bail you know as part of the as part of the original arraignment he's got an order of protection you know assigned to him but he's being held on seventy five thousand dollars so they certainly took it very seriously beyond just what would be a you know seemingly a more innocent

criminal trespass hold on he's been charged with felony stalking, which I guess is the felony involved, you know, to constitute a burglary, because he's also charged with burglary, criminal mischief, and criminal trespass. But listen to this. This is why he got a felony stalking charge. This wasn't the first time Alvarado was arrested

at her address in February and was breaking the front door with a shovel. Hello? That turns this into stalking. That's the felony that supports the burglary. And he also skipped out on a court date. So there was a warrant for his arrest and they'll revisit that original charge as well just to adding to his uh i don't get it problem i don't get it dr bethany marshall la psychoanalyst dr bethany you know you've got the waffle house shooter on the run who i would guess is headed to either one of two places where he thinks Taylor Swift is or to his family

in Illinois his family and right now he is eluding the police okay so Taylor Swift has that going on now you've got this guy who's very likely wet and naked in her bed think about it Bethany not too much but just enough to give me a professional opinion. Well, one of the things that comes to mind is the enormous amount of energy both of these men are engaging in in order to gain proximity to her. about this current stalking case we're talking about um a ranking who has delusional disorder and perhaps is manic is that these men are so obsessed with her so focused on her both of them believe that they have a unique and special relationship with this victim and the type of disorder both of these men have is not a disorder that goes away they're going to be obsessed with her for the rest of their lives.

So the only thing that's going to keep her safe besides her security team is if these men are behind bars. So this is the problem with our justice system, like the guy that broke an inner, tried to break down the door with the shovel. Do they have enough on him to put him behind bars for the rest of his life?

Probably not. So he's going to continue to be obsessed with her and put all this energy into it and stalkers as you and i've talked about so many times not only do they believe they have a special and unique relationship with the victim even though there's no evidence to support that they go after the victim to punish the victim for perceived rejection. So they'll be like, well, why isn't she returning my calls or my emails? Why didn't she come home to go to bed with me?

Here I am naked in the bed. And this is where the agitation and the anger comes in and then the striking out at the victim. And this is what puts victims at risk. Well, it's not just Alvarado who's stalking and breaking in in New York. Last week, another stalker was arrested trying to get into her Beverly Hills home. The police report says the man was wearing a mask and rubber gloves, carrying a knife, live ammunition, and black rope. Okay, help me out. and black rope. Okay.

Help me out. It just never seems to end, and we can't keep the people in jail. Jason Oceans, you're the defense lawyer. Why is it a revolving door for these guys that are stalking her? They go in for 30 days, then they're out, and they start all over again. Because not enough states have strong laws relative to this. It becomes a bit of a revolving door absent any violence. It goes based on the

lowest level of what, you know, what the actual crime is like a breaking and entering. So, you know, it sort of rolls through. It's not fierce enough in terms of the So, you know, it sort of rolls through. It's not fierce enough in terms of the legislature, you know, really identifying beyond just the celebrity stalker that it goes on in domestic relationships as well. It just doesn't get the coverage. And I think if it did and the laws were tightened, we'd be in a better spot to try and stop these things prophylactically. You know, this guy breaks into Swift's townhouse in New York where he takes a shower and a nap. A neighbor calls the cops after spotting 22-year-old Roger Alvarado

climbing the fire escape with use of a ladder, a window and letting himself in okay the guy has come all the way from homestead florida to joseph scott morgan forensics expert you've testified in so many cases the guy comes all the way from homestead florida, to get into Taylor Swift's Soho townhouse. Breaks in. Nobody catches him, even though he's leaned a ladder up against the building and smashed a window to get in. This is not, it doesn't end like Goldilocks, okay? He breaks in.

He takes a shower. He gets in her bed. For what? After traveling all that way, Joe Scott? Yeah, oh my God, I'm exhausted just listening to this. It's idle hands are the devil's workshop. How do people like this have time? How do they have the resources in order to facilitate this? And going back to what you said i'm imagining this guy walking down the street in soho of all places carrying a ladder that would facilitate him getting up to this height how do they have the means the ability you know i'll look at this and

i think well who else in their life is enabling this behavior well i think a lot of it has to do with what esteemed counsel said just a moment ago. The states aren't taking a hard enough look and a hard enough line, and I think a lot of it comes back to families. Also, we talked about this ranking guy. You know, his family is obviously aware that he's delusional, and he's got his weapons back. And then you look at this guy.

You know, what's his story? How does he have the ability to make it all the way? That's a long way, Nancy, from Homestead all the way up to New York. Oh, my God. Another one, too. Alexis Tereshchuk joining me from RadarOnline.com. You're there on the scene from the last break-in there at Beverly Hills. This gun-owning stalker tries to break in wearing a mask with rubber gloves,

but in his car was a treasure trove of, I would say, felony paraphernalia. This guy is 38-year-old Julius Sandrock. Now, do you know what all he had in his car, Alexis? I believe. I'll give you a hint a 22 caliber handgun a nine millimeter handgun a 380 handgun and a temporary restraining order that's what's in his car he also had an empty gun holster, live rounds of Ferracci ammo, latex gloves, black gloves, a knife, multiple masks, a black half-face mask, 9mm ammunition, an empty box of.22 caliber ammo, and black rope. They found oxycodone, antidepressants, and a TRO signed by a judge the past Tuesday. Do you know more than that? What can you tell me about that guy, Alexis? Well, what I can tell you about that guy is Taylor has been aware of this, and what she has done in Beverly Hills, she has built, again, as I was saying, she's so aware of these stalkers, these men stalking her. She built a wall around her

house that was so high that the neighbors really started complaining about it. But then when you look at what happens to her, what else can she possibly do? Can she have armed guards standing on towers around her house? I mean, a bunch of German shepherds. So this guy, this is somebody that is very familiar to her. And, you know, something that we have a real issue with that you and I do is, do we talk about these people? Because the more that we talk about them, we feel that, you know, they are feeding into this fame

because they just can't get enough of hearing about themselves and Taylor Swift. And as Dr. Bethany Marshall was saying, it really shows that they have a relationship with her. And they're not afraid of anything. They're not afraid of the police. They're not afraid of a judge. Listen to the similarity, Alexis Tereshchuk. The last guy, Alvarado, who travels from Homestead, Florida, all the way to New York to visit with Taylor Swift who ends up naked and wet in her bed then you've got this guy Sandrock listen to this he's from Colorado where he's had all

sorts of problems in Colorado discharging firearms I'm sure his family couldn't wait to get rid of him. He goes all the way, he travels from Colorado to L.A. specifically to, quote, visit Swift. Both of them, hold on, Alexis, I need to give this to a shrink. Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A. psychoanalyst, also joining us from that location. Dr. Bethany, both of them travel thousands of miles to get to Taylor Swift, to break into her home.

Right. And so what I think about that is that both of them may have sort of a manic quality to their disorder, meaning excessive amounts of energy. And we saw this with Ranking 2, you know, that he bursts into this Waffle House and he's naked. Okay. This other guy has all the one we're talking about just now has all the guns the rope the paraphernalia and the trunk of his car they're coming from all over the united states most stalkers do not have a psychiatric disorder

but the ones that we're talking about today do appear to be manic to have enormous amounts of energy and aggression. They're very preoccupied with the victim and probably have organized their entire lives around gaining proximity to Taylor Swift. Dr. Bethany, are you sitting down? I am. Okay, you may need to lay down for this because the Beverly Hill Stalker, not Alvarado, but the Beverly Hill Stalker, his arrest was just three weeks after another man named Bruce Rowley was arrested in Connecticut for allegedly robbing a bank because he said he was trying to impress Taylor Swift. Oh, no.

Yes, Bethany, yes. They are coming out of the woodwork. Yes, Bethany. Yes. They are coming out of the woodwork. Yes, they are. There are so many of them. Okay, you know what? Taylor Swift somehow manages to land in the middle of this controversy at the Waffle House. Again, right now, back to the Waffle House shooter, the tip line

615-862-8600. We're hoping for a capture and that justice unfolds immediately. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.