Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Natalee Holloway's Suspected Killer Flies to U.S. Trial

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Joran van der Sloot will soon be on his way to the U.S. to face extortion and wire fraud charges after demanding Natalee Holloway's family pay him $250,000 in exchange for the location of Holloway's body. Van der Sloot, who is serving a 28-year sentence in Peru for the murder of Stephany Flores, will be sent to the U.S. under a "temporary surrender" from the Peruvian government. The surrender is set to last for one year and could be extended for another in the case of any delays in the trial.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Matthew Mangino - Attorney and Former District Attorney (Lawrence County, PA); Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States;" Twitter: @MatthewTMangino Dr. Chloe Carmichael - Clinical Psychologist, Women’s Health Magazine Advisory Board; Author: ‘Nervous Energy: Harness The Power of Your Anxiety;" Twitter: @DrChloe Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Podcast Host: "Zone 7;" Twitter: @ColdCaseTips  Irv Brandt - Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Author: “Solo Shot: Curse of the Blue Stone” (available on Amazon) and "Flying Solo: Top of the World;" Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host of "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @JoScottForensics Art Harris - 2-time Emmy-winning Investigative Journalist See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The murder of an American beauty, Natalie Holloway, will not go unavenged. From what we are hearing right now, her killer, who I believe to be her killer, Jorn Vandersloot, the judge's son, is en route to the United States to face justice. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Vox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to our friends at ABC. It's been nearly two decades since Natalie Holloway was last seen. And now sources telling ABC News that the transfer process for the main suspect in her disappearance, Joran Vandersloot, was put into motion overnight. Now those same sources telling ABC News that the 35-year-old was being moved

from a maximum security prison in southern Peru to a prison in Lima, the capital, before making his way onto American soil. And that could happen as early as next week. In Peru, he has been serving a 28-year sentence for the murder of another woman, Stephanie Flores. And more from our friends at GMA. U.S. officials awaiting what sources tell ABC News is the likely imminent extradition of Jorn Vandersloot, the prime suspect in the 18-year-old unsolved disappearance of American teenager Natalie Holloway. Vandersloot currently serving a 28-year prison sentence in Peru for a different crime, the 2010 murder of a college student. But in the last few hours,

signs of prisoner transfer to the U.S. may finally be underway. Authorities say Vandersloot left a maximum security prison in southern Peru yesterday, flying to the capital Lima under guard. With me, an all-star panel to break down what we know right now, but first to Emmy Award winning investigative journalist Art Harris. And you can find him at artharris.com. Art on the ground in Aruba from the very beginning when Natalie first went missing. Art, I don't like it. I don't like hopscotch, number one, where you go from Lima to here, from here to here, from here, finally get to the U.S. I don't know why nobody can afford a direct flight to get him here. You know, Art, as you well know, because he was a judge's son there in Aruba, he slipped through the fingers of Lady Justice and he ended up

murdering five years to the day, Stephanie Tassiano Flores. Same M.O., Modus Operandi Method of Operation, Art Harris. Meets her at a casino. She's a young girl. Now she's dead. I don't want it to happen again, Art. Nancy, everyone knew on Aruba that this was his M.O., that he preyed on young women the night before they were to come back to the U.S. if they were on one of these trips.

And so he is not, he was more of a danger in Aruba, well, than I suppose he was in Peru, except he killed a Peruvian gal as well. But he is, you know, just beyond the pale. He is pure evil. He is pure evil, and I don't know how he's... Well, actually, I think you're right, Art. I started to disagree with you. But I think he was more dangerous in Aruba because he had free reign in the protection of his father, the judge, and the protection of the police there.

They did not remember Cheryl McCollum. Guys with me, Cheryl McCollum. She and I, along with Natalie's mom, went to Aruba to retrace the steps as we know them to see if we could dig up any information. And we did. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute and star of a hit podcast, Zone 7. Cheryl, he had the protection not only of his father, but of the police in Aruba. And that bore out with what Beth told us about how they treated her and would not help her in any way.

She's alone in a foreign country trying to find her daughter with no help from the police. And then they tried to arrest us. I mean, long story short, they did nothing. So he did have it, more of a free reign in Aruba to prey on young women. He had free reign and he had help. He had associates that would drive him. We were told when we were there that there were bartenders that would flip the Rohypnol to victims. We were told that. And then when we were there, not only did they try to arrest us, but they followed us around everywhere we went.

And then to me, the most shocking thing was when we went across the street to all the businesses and one by one, they slammed the doors, locked them and turned the open sign to close. They wouldn't even let us in a store to get a bottle of water. Nobody wants the truth about Natalie to be found on that island. And that is why it is so imperative that we get him here. Take a listen to our friends at NBC. Authorities may take the main suspect in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway to the U.S. in just a matter of days. Joran van der Sloot was moved on Saturday from one Peruvian prison to another, all in preparation for his extradition to the

United States to face charges of extortion. Holloway, you will remember, vanished while she was on vacation in Aruba in 2005. Her body never was found. But interesting, he is not, Jorn Vandersloot is not being brought to the U.S. even as we speak because of Natalie's murder. He's here or will be here on entirely different charges. Take a listen to Jay O'Brien. Prosecutors allege Vander Sloot promised Holloway's parents he divulged the location of her body and give them details about the manner of her death, allegedly asking to be paid $250,000 with $25,000 up front. He's then accused of giving information that was worthless. Vanishing in Aruba during a graduation trip, 18-year-old Natalie Holloway's body has never been found. She was officially declared dead by a judge in 2012.

VanderSloot was one of the last people to see her alive. Straight out to Dr. Chloe Carmichael joining us, clinical psychologist, author of Nervous Energy, Harness the Power of Your Anxiety. And you can find her at drchloe.com. Dr. Chloe, thank you for being with us. So here's a guy that I firmly believe killed Natalie Holloway, a teen girl, straight-A student, set to go to college in pre-med. I don't care how it happened, but he did it. He's given various accounts of how Natalie died over the years. They're all inconsistent with each other, and all of them amount to, if not murder one, premeditated murder, they amount to felony murder, a death occurring in the commission of a felony. That being rape, that being sodomy, that being kidnap, false imprisonment, aggravated assault.

It could be a number of various felonies and a death occurred during the felony, which equals felony murder. No doubt in my mind. So we've got a guy who I believe murdered this teen girl, now trying to squeeze $250,000 out of the victim's mother. What does that tell you, Dr. Chloe? Sociopaths. My goodness, Nancy, I think you hit the nail on the head and honestly I'm inclined to agree with your feeling that he appears likely to have done this

murder and then to essentially toy with the family by trying to extort them for for money. I'm glad that they are extraditing him back so that the family can at least begin to have some shred of accountability with what appears to just be a really vicious sociopath. And, you know, Matthew Mangino joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out of Lawrence County, author of The Executioner's Toll. And you can find me at mattmangino.com. Matthew, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Nancy. So often we hear about how prisoners are quote misunderstood. I'm sure that I misunderstand them. I don't want to understand them really because I don't want to go in their brain, in their mind and try to figure them out. Now, not everyone behind bars is a, quote, bad person, but think about Jorn

Vandersloot. He murders a defenseless teen girl that I believe he drugged with GHB, gamma hydroxybutyrate, and then she ends up dead. I also believe he raped her because he described in detail the designs, I believe they were flowers, on her underwear. Now, he's trying to extort money from the victim's mother, desperate to find Natalie or at least find her remains. You know, I'm not even mentioning the murder of Stephanie Tassiano Flores or the woman who got pregnant behind bars in Peru, who now he's divorcing for someone, quote, younger and prettier, or the drug scheme he has behind bars. Forget that. Forget all that.

Just the murder of natalie and trying to extort money from her mother yeah i mean certainly we know from from his track record here that he's he's not a good person man wait a minute not a good person right but okay that is certainly putting perfume on the pig not a good person he's a repeat killer that's a serial killer right there well but we we know that he's murdered one person because he's received a 28 year sentence you believe he's murdered another person uh and but that hasn't been proven in the court of law so and we can't but we can't just say hey uh you know he he uh uh you know this is his mo we don't just say, hey, this is his MO. We don't know that he killed Natalie Holloway.

Okay, I'm sorry. Is there something wrong with my IFB? Because I'm pretty sure I heard Matthew Mangino say, we don't know that he killed Natalie Holloway. Right. Art Harris, I'm pretty sure. Wait, no, I'm not pretty sure. I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Jorn Vandersloot killed Natalie Holloway. And again, I'm not saying he woke up that morning and thought, wow, I'm going to kill Natalie Holloway and had some long extended plans such as poisoning her over a period of time.

It could have been a matter of him raping her and she started throwing up the GHB on the beach and ended up dead. That's felony murder. There's so much circumstantial evidence. You have made cases in court. I've watched you with far less evidence than you have here. And the way you string it together, how can you align it? I'm not stringing it together. I'm not building something out of string and tape and paper mache.

These are the facts, Art Harris. That's right. But anyway, what I'm saying is you have a pile of facts that I've seen you weave together in a very convincing tale of guilt before. And this would be a cakewalk for a good prosecutor if they wanted to go that far and if we had jurisdiction to make a murder case. Yes, you're right. If we had jurisdiction. But the only thing we have jurisdiction on is this attempt to get a quarter of a million dollars out of a grieving victim's mother. Please join us now on Fox Nation for a brand new investigation,

Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation, we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas, who described their life before and after they were victims of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private investigator Bill Warner, who worked in the cases, and Ted Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We travel to Moscow, Idaho, to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors of Brian Koberger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Koberger.

Don't miss Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho killings, streaming now exclusively on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace I mean, you know what? Joe Scott Morgan, Cheryl, Irv Brandt helped me explain to Matthew Mangino why we know Jorn Vandersloot murdered Natalie, and we may never get a murder conviction on Natalie's death, because that would have to be done in Aruba, sadly. I'm going to dare to circle back to Matthew Mangino in a moment to explain why we have to try that case in Aruba. But Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University,

who has an incredible criminal science department. I've been there. I've toured it. I've seen it at work. It's amazing. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and host of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, he did it. And I hear Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. I get where he's coming from. He did it. I don't care what Mangino says. He did it. I don't know how he did it, Joe Scott, but he did it.

He killed her. The problem is. Oh, Lord. is that the problem is there is no. I need a double. There is no corpus delecti, Nancy. There is no body when it comes to the physical person of Natalie Holloway. You know what? Being a quote esteemed professor of forensics, I expected more that there's no body. Well, it's a it's a tough road, Nancy, when you don't have a body, because, you know, just the basic things like manner of death, cause of death.

Those things are you can only speculate about that. And I think that that's probably what Matt is getting to, at least in that one little segment but what we do have are circumstantial events surrounding natalie holloway and also his predatory behavior based upon what we're hearing from these other witnesses associated with him where he would actually uh spike drinks and this was a common occurrence at this one particular bar down there where he could take advantage. I think one of my big questions, Nancy, here is why is Ruben not motivated to look into a lot of other deaths that have occurred down there where we have missing young women that have never turned back up? Did he have a hand in that?

You used the term serial killer just a moment ago, and I think that that's something that should deeply, deeply be explored down there because it's quite troubling. And is there anybody else at work down there in that area that knows that their crimes will be assisted in facilitation? You know, Joe Scott, I've always respected you. I don't always agree with you, but let me just be blunt. What fairy tale are you living in, man? Aruba is no more going to investigate missing girls and women on their island than the man in the moon is going to. Because you just heard Art Harris pipe up. Tourism. Who's going to put a toe on Aruba when you know women go missing and drop dead like flies.

No, they're not going to uncover anything. You know, Cheryl McCollum, I'm deeply disappointed by certain members of our panel today, and they shall remain nameless, but they're saying we don't know if Joran Vandersloot murdered Natalie. What about his multiple confessions? They're all, you know, inconsistent. If somebody accused me of murder, I'd say, oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. I was so-and-so at that time. That did not happen. You're not taking me away from my twins. It's not going to happen. But here he goes, okay, let me tell you how it happened. She hit her head on a rock. She choked on vomit. She this, she that. We buried her. No, we threw her out at sea.

Why would he give all of these confessions? Help me, Cheryl. I obviously have some non-believers I must ferret out on the panel. Not only has he admitted it multiple times, but I want to remind everybody, he wrote a book. He wrote a book where he put his face on the cover and said the case of Natalie Holloway my own story about her disappearance he in the title he says it's a case because he knows it's a criminal case and in that book he admits the line in that book he said he found himself at the wrong place at the wrong time and made a wrong decision you mean he found himself with her dead body that's what he meant exactly and then we have the similar transaction with stephanie flores then we have his friend coming forward remember this guy that says oh uh we burn

her up and mix her bones in with some dog bones but they did find a human bone of a Caucasian European person. And Aruba did what with that? Nothing. They don't want it. They don't want any negative publicity because of their tourism. We know for a fact they have human bones that are not Natalie, but somebody else. And they will do nothing with it. Guys, how did the extortion scam begin? What is the genesis of Jorn Vandersloot

extorting Natalie's mother? Can you imagine that? You know, Art Harris, you and I, you on the media side, me as a felony prosecutor, handled a lot of murder cases. And there is no grief like a murder victim's mother endures. Nothing like it. You have children. You have your beautiful boys. I mean, that changes everything. And to take advantage of Natalie's mother in that way, What a POS, technical legal term. Nancy, he's a con man with less of a conscience than most

because he is willing to prey on someone whose heart is so broken that they are willing to do anything to find any information that they think this guy is going to cough up. And if they have to pay for it, fine. But they also know the FBI is watching and they're laying a trap, they hope, that's going to lead to what just happened, which is making the case for extortion and wire fraud against

Mandersleuth, which is going to get him back to the States where she can get a piece of him, at least a 10 to 20 year sentence that would let him spend part of his natural life here. And then he gets shipped back to the horrors of Peruvian prison. So life ain't looking too good for him. I can only pray, Art Harris. Guys, what is the genesis of the $250,000 demand? Take a listen to our friends at WCSC. In 2010, a $250,000 reward for information was offered.

Vandersloot stepped forward. According to legal documents, he would reveal the location of Natalie Holloway's body, the circumstances of her death, and identify those involved in return for a payment of $250,000. The Holloway's attorney went with Vandersloat to a home in Aruba, and a $25,000 down payment was given to him. Once there, Vandersloat pointed to the residents and said that Natalie's body would be found in the foundation. Vandersloat emailed the Holloways after fleeing to Peru, saying he had lied about the location of Natalie's remains. And what did he do with the $25,000 he scammed from Natalie's grieving mother?

Listen to this. Surveillance video from a Lima casino shows Vandersloot gambling. It is believed with the $25,000 he got from the Holloway family. There he met the daughter of a prominent Peruvian businessman, Stephanie Flores. Hours later, she was dead. I am truly regretful for what I have done. Vandersloot admitted to the violent murder and was sent to prison. Now headed to the U.S., but still no answers as to what happened to Natalie Holloway.

So he gets the $25,000 that he extorts from Natalie's mother, goes straight to Peru and spins it, spins it at casinos. And there he meets Stephanie Tosiana Flores. I want to talk about what's happening to Joran van der Sloot right now and how we're getting him to the U.S. Take a listen to this. Joran van der Sloot, one of Peru's highest profile inmates injured during a brawl in one of the country's most violent prisons. It was a fight among some inmates and my client got involved when he tried to defend his friend. Vandersloot is in prison for

killing a woman in Peru 13 years ago. I want to give a sincere confession. And the prime suspect in the shocking disappearance of American Natalie Holloway, May 30th, 2005. A sincere confession, my rear end, there's not one sincere bone in Jorn Vandersloot's body, but we do know that there is movement and that he is on his way to U.S. soil. Take a listen to J. O'Brien, GMA. His lawyer telling ABC News he was severely beaten in the Peruvian prison where he was being held, but that the incident is unrelated to Vander Sloot's extradition. He's now expected to be handed over to Peruvian intelligence agents, then delivered to U.S. officials and ultimately brought to Alabama, where the Dutch national faces more than a decade-old federal extortion and wire fraud charges tied to Holloway's disappearance. Joining me right now, an expert in extradition and foreign government relations with the

U.S. as it relates to our justice system. Irv Brandt is with us, Senior Inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service, their International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector, DOJ, Office of International Affairs, author of Solo Shot and Flying Solo on Amazon. Irv Brandt. Two things. I'm very suspicious of the beating incident, which caused him, we understand, to be moved to a different jail in Peru. I don't like it.

He could have been put in solitary. Any number of measures could have been taken other than moving him. And it is very often in a jailhouse move. I mean, look at Bundy. He escaped at the courthouse in the law library. Whenever there's a change of conditions, if you look at escapees, very often the escape takes place when they are being transported. So he gets in a fight and has to be transported to another jail. What? They don't have another cell at the current jail he was in?

I don't like the smell of that right there. No, Nancy, it stinks to high heaven and it arouses suspicions on the motivations of the people handling him. Maybe the motivations of the people handling him, maybe the motivations of him. Maybe he was intentionally trying to get into a fight so he could get into a medical wing. There's a lot to be considered when you're handling prisoner transfers. And why now? He's been in jail for murdering Stephanie Tosiano Flores,

same M.O., modus operandi, method of operation, as with Natalie at a casino. Young female lures her away. She ends up dead. Why now does he suddenly get in a fight and have to move jail facilities? They moved him from his facility to the facility in the Capitol. And that's probably what started the fight is he is in a brand new facility with inmates that have never come in contact with him before.

You're right. And he got into an altercation. And I'm sure he's in isolation now until he can be turned over to the FBI, who I'm sure have the paperwork done. They have the parole letter. They have a jet waiting. Just as soon as he's turned over to them, they're going to go wheels up and they'll be lands in the U.S., just as soon as they get him back to Alabama, they're going to bring him in for his initial appearance in detention hearing where he'll be remanded to the custody of the United States Marshal Service. And the Marshal Service will make sure that he makes all his court appearances and he's relatively healthy.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Herb Brant, with all the money that Congress extracts from us every year, we can't afford a nonstop flight. Why does he have to hopscotch from one place to the next? Why is that? I'm not absolutely sure on that. The FBI may have a jet that has the range. They may have a Gulfstream galaxy standing by that can go from lima straight in uh to alabama if the jet doesn't have that type of range then they can refuel in

puerto rico or miami or someplace like that um and bring them in it's it's not you wouldn't be getting off the plane if they're going to make a stop, the only thing they'd do is refuel the jet and continue on. They could turn in his paperwork, his parole letter to CBP and process. But it's not like they would be bringing him off the jet and putting him in a facility then going on. It would just be the jet on the tarmac to refuel, then it would be onward to their destination. I just don't like any room, any wiggling room for Jorn Vandersloot to make some sort of an escape or commit another crime

during the layover or the stop or the refueling or whatever it becomes. Another question to Irv Brandt joining us, U.S. Marshal Service International. Why is it shrouded in secrecy, the extradition process? They always get the prisoner in the middle of the night, and he will probably be brought to the Birmingham federal pen in relative secrecy. Why is that? It's just security precautions that are standard in every extradition with high profile cases, even more. If you announce it, you're going to have news helicopters flying around when you're trying to get a shot of him being loaded on the jet.

You're going to have people gathered around in terminals or places where they land. It's just something that you try to avoid. The less people who know, the more control you have over the situation. Like you said about fearing an incident in transit, it just cuts down on the chances of there being an incident. I mean, for Pete's sake, Cheryl McCollum, I couldn't bring a witness over from the Fulton County Jail to the Fulton County Courthouse without some incident on the jail transport bus, somebody getting stabbed with a pencil or a fight breaking out or the witness getting intimidated just on the 20 minute ride to the courthouse. Much less a transcontinental flight from Peru to the U.S. There's a lot that could go wrong. There's a lot that could go wrong.

But I'm going to tell you, the marshal service are top drawer. This man is going to be snatched out in the dark of night he's not going to know exactly when it's going to happen they're going to take him briskly to that aircraft he's going to be handcuffed they already know he's a con artist they already know what he's about they are not going to be fooled they are not going to be fooled. They are not going to be impressed. They are going to have zero issue getting him to Alabama. And once he's there, it's going to be a different world for him. I promise you he ain't going to be running drugs there. He ain't going to have no conjugal visit there.

It's going to be a completely different world immediately. So when do we expect him to leave art harris or anyone on the panel and when do we expect him to be here there's been several estimates nancy he can leave as soon as tomorrow and be here as soon as thursday that's uh two different networks so leave as soon as tomorrow and be here as soon as thursday how long does anybody know how long the flight is from the U.S. to Peru? How long will he be in transit? What about it, Irv Brandt? Well, if he was going, it's probably eight to 10 hours from Lima to Miami, then another two and a

half hours from Miami to Birmingham. So transit time, you're looking at 10 to 12 hours. A lot can go wrong, but as Cheryl pointed out, everybody knows he's a con person. This is what we expect to happen. Take a listen to Hour Cut 90, our friends at ABC, and former U.S. attorney Ken Nowaday. What happens is what happens in a regular federal criminal prosecution. He's presented before a federal judge in Alabama where he's arraigned on the charges against him.

In all likelihood, he will put in a not guilty plea. And then the case proceeds like any other federal criminal trial. There's an opportunity for the defense to make motions. The prosecution will provide evidence to the defendant and it will go to trial unless, of course, he pleads guilty. That's what we think is going to happen, and then the case will proceed slowly to trial. It doesn't always end the way we think it will when it comes to extraditions. It's frankly a miracle that we've gotten this far and it's taken two decades to get this guy extradited to the U.S. Do I need to say the name Roman Polanski? Take a listen to Euronews. Poland's Supreme Court has ruled that filmmaker Roman Polanski cannot be extradited to the U.S. over a child sex conviction in the 1970s.

The three judges rejected an appeal by the Polish government. A district court in Krakow had also ruled the American demand was inadmissible. The Supreme Court's decision is final. The United States had requested the Oscar-winning director's extradition after he made a high-profile appearance in Warsaw two years ago. Polanski, who's now 83, admitted unlawful sex with a 13-year-old girl in 1977. He spent six weeks in jail after a plea bargain, but then fled the U.S., fearing a lengthy jail sentence if the agreement was overruled. His victim has said the filmmaker's exile has been punishment enough. Polanski has dual French-Polish nationality and lives in France, which doesn't extradite its citizens. So there you have France refusing to extradite an alleged child rapist, Roman Polanski.

On the other hand, sometimes it all works out the way you want it to. Take a listen to our cut 107, our friends at ABC. This dramatic moment was the beginning of the end for Joaquin and Chapo Guzman after his long run from the law repeatedly escaping authorities he was now caught he had no idea where he was being taken in this never-before-seen video obtained by ABC News this was the moment when the notorious drug lord learned he had landed in New York he had been brought to the US to face justice we cannot emphasize the risk of escape enough. Now, whereas El Chapo had millions of dollars and thousands of henchmen at his disposal,

Roman Polanski shrouded in faux celebrity. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut 108 ABC. See what lengths El Chapo went to in order to escape justice. A man who famously escaped two Mexican prisons. El Chapo seen here slipping beneath his prison cell, going through the floor of the shower, disappearing into the elaborate mile-long tunnel. We saw that tunnel firsthand in Mexico. Even the motorbike that was waiting for him in the tunnel to escape. This is the house where he just walked into and disappeared. But months later, Mexican authorities would storm El Chapo's hideout.

Grabbing him outside one of his tunnels, turning him over to the U.S. And tonight, an American jury convicted him, likely sending him away for life. If we can get our hands on El Chapo, arguably the most notorious crime boss in the history of this world, I would say we can get our hands on anyone. It's just a matter of where and when. Really? Now, he was an infamous drug lord but what about a single female hiding out in Costa Rica take a listen his name Caitlin Armstrong ring a bell to our cut 100 our friends at Fox 7 Armstrong used a passport now the real identity of the person who had that passport were told was somebody who closely physically resembled where she continued using that alias while in Costa Rica, taking a bus, going to yoga studios. This enabled authorities to establish a paper trail

and eventually close in on her. And when Caitlin Armstrong was finally found, she had actually had cosmetic surgery to change her appearance. That said, Cheryl McCollum, it's a miracle that we are finally bringing Jorn Vandersloot to U.S. soil, but it ain't over yet, and I don't want to jinx it. When do you think he will be here, and when do you think he will go to trial, Cheryl? I think he'll be here by Thursday, but I also want to point out something. Several of those, you know, clips you just showed, those folks before they fled were free he's not free oh you mean like el chapo no several of them like polanski and the female you were just talking about they were already out so i'm just saying he doesn't know where he's going to wake up tomorrow he's going

to be handcuffed stay handcuffed he has no money he has no associates that are going to help him. He doesn't even have family that visits him. His wife has left him. She didn't leave him. He divorced her for a, quote, younger and prettier woman. She's still pining for Jorn Vandersloot. I can't really understand that. Matthew Mangino, high profile lawyer, extraditions are usually a simple matter. It's the transport in this case. Of course, it took a lot to get Peru to finally do it, but they did do it pursuant to a 2001 treaty, U.S. and Peru. But I think the extradition process in court is very simple. Yes, it is. And in fact, in this situation, Jordan VanderSloot waived extradition, which tells me that he he wants to come to the United States.

He doesn't want to be in a Peruvian jail any longer. He wants to be in a jail where, you know, there's going to be, you know, three males in a shower in a jail cell where, you know, he's going to be away from other inmates possibly. I mean, he wants this. I'm not sure that I agree with that either, Matthew, because he has drugs, alcohol, sex. He's even fathered a child behind bars, gotten married, is getting divorced, has a new girlfriend, all behind bars. I don't think that would happen in a U.S. jail, but we wait as Thursday approaches. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.