Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Natalie Wood death mystery episode 1: Cold case warms up!

Episode Date: June 21, 2017

Natalie Wood was one of Hollywood's biggest stars when her body washed up on a beach Thanksgiving weekend, 1981. Robert Wagner, also a huge star, has acknowledged that he and his wife argued before she disappeared off their yacht, which was anchored in a Catalina Island, California, harbor. Crime Stories re-examines the cause of death, which the Los Angeles coroner recently reclassified from "accidental" to "undetermined." The first episode in our series is with Sheryl McCollum, head of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Natalie Wood was one of the most popular, sought-after actresses in Hollywood. This is America's sweetheart. This story is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend, 1981, when Wood and her actor husband, Robert Wagner, went sailing on their yacht, the Splendor. they were joined by actor and friend Christopher walk in. This is crime stories with Nancy grace Wagner notified Captain Dennis Davern that would was not on board and I said to Robert Wagner I let's turn on the searchlight to see if we can see her and he says no we don't want to do that right now do you believe that maybe robert wagner has been hiding the real truth of what happened that night all these years i fully believe that we have received information which we felt was substantial enough to make us

take another look at this case it's old information that was never looked at that should have been looked at. She's a beautiful brunette, a mother. Once you look into those brown eyes, you'll never forget them. And oh yes, she's dead. I'm talking about Natalie Wood. Can you believe the saga of her watery death goes on? It's still not settled. What happened to Natalie Wood? Was she murdered? With me right now, the director of the Cold Case Institute, Cheryl McCollum. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. You know, Cheryl, I have never felt any degree of, you know, when we would try a case, when we were both duking it out in the courtroom. You finish a case, you get a verdict, and you feel a sense of not really peace, but like you have achieved something. You did it. It's done. Next. I've never felt that way about Natalie Wood. I've never felt,

okay, now I can go on to the next case. Something's not right. Several things are not right, but yes, you just get that feeling that it's unsettled. Robert Wagner changing his story. The ship's captain changing his story. The evidence that, you know, there was some type of struggle on board. There was some type of fight. The fact that they did not search for her, even though he says he did on board. There was evidence that he did not completely search that boat for her.

Well, what concerns me is they did not completely search the boat for her, for the ship. Correct. And that night, according to reliable sources, Robert Wagner insisted they not use the searchlight to try and find his wife out in the water. I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Let's start at the get-go. With me, special guest Cheryl McCollum, the director and founder of the Cold Case Institute. Natalie Wood, superstar, was found drowned near her yacht. Repeat her yacht. During celebration Thanksgiving.

The cause of death seemed to be apparent. That she drowned. But why was she out in the middle of the ocean all by herself? Why was she? Was she trying to escape something that had happened on the boat? This is a woman, by all accounts, that had a dread fear, a dread fear of water. In fact, a so-called fortune teller had foretold her death by water many years before, and she had been afraid ever since. She would even have night terrors about drowning, nightmares about it.

She would not put one little toe out in the ocean. That just, no, that was not going to happen. And I'm supposed to believe, Cheryl McCollum, that she and the husband, now remember, he was a TV star. She was the movie star. And he made comments about it all the time like sources say that for instance when they were going out to dinner he gave well you're the star natalie you pick where we're going you know what i'd want to slap my husband sideways if he said something like that i mean i'd be thrilled to get to pick where we were going. But, you know, it's my daughter.

She runs the house because she won't eat, all right? I have to make everything. Cheryl, you know this about Lucy. I have to make, when I cook, it's got to be a veggie. I know she will eat, blah, blah. So, you know, while we just cut the chase and go straight to her, what do you want tonight, okay? That will save me a lot of trouble.

So I'd be thrilled if I got to pick, but not like that, like some side-handed, back-handed insult. But so at the time, that was a big, big differentiation. I guess it still is, but whether you're a TV or a movie star. Sure. So he was all like hung up with that. Lots of jealousy. So I'm supposed to believe that that night they have a fight over her co-star, Christopher Walken, who I love, who happens to be with them on the yacht.

And they have a fight because Ragnar's jealous and he admits that. He admits they have a knockdown drag out. He admits he breaks a bottle of wine, some glasses or something like that in his anger. And that she decides that night, Cheryl, correct me if I'm wrong, because you know the facts a lot better than me. She decides she's going to crawl off the yacht in the dark, and unrope a huge dinghy on the side of the yacht, and then crawl down in it in the dark, out on the ocean, on the waves, and row herself to shore or turn on the motor.

And, Nancy, she decided to do this in a flannel nightgown in Woolsoft. And no underwear. And no underwear. Now, I am not saying you can't go commando when you feel like it. You know, fine. Yeah, right on. Every time I turn around, I find out John David's running around without underwear. You know, I just find out by accident.

Okay, I'm like, what are you doing running around without underwear? And i just find out by accident okay i'm like what are you doing running around without underwear he just starts laughing and runs away but she was you and i cheryl mccollum have poured through photos of natalie wood tell me your observation there's not one photograph where she's not flawless. Her hair, her makeup, her outfit, her jewelry. She is a movie star in every single photograph you can find. Picture perfect. So for me to believe that this woman in a flannel nightgown with her makeup off with half of her jewelry off with a down jacket and wool socks it's fixing to go to shore in the middle of the night how many times do i get irritated with my husband you know after supper and i'm you know still cleaning up the kitchen he's sitting there reading his ipad i just want to go snap his little nose off his face. And I think, you know what, I'm just going to stomp out.

And go where in the middle of the night in my gym shorts and socks? Where am I going? What, to Target? You know? I'm just going to just stay here. I might as well just stay here and sulk. And it was cold. And it was dark.

And, again, not only did she have a fear of water, dark water was debilitating. She would not even go near her own swimming pool in Beverly Hills in the dark. She wouldn't do it. Did she know how to swim? No, ma'am. Oh, not a bit. You're not getting me out on a dinghy in the middle of the night. And I can swim with wool socks on. And that's another thing. Natalie Wood, as you said, was always dressed to the T. Her hair was done.

She would not even go to the grocery store without being made up. Now, you know me. I'll just put on a hat and some sunglasses and ride, okay? But that's not the way she rolled. That did not happen with Natalie Wood. Absolutely. I remember one time I was called into a crime scene after leaving your show. So I had all the studio makeup on and my hair was perfect. And when I got to the scene, one of the detectives said, are you in drag? So, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, the favorite thing of Lucy's is to peel off my false eyelashes. I mean, it's like, ew. Okay. So they don't like all that but natalie was a whole different that's that's a whole different thing she knew her public or she thought her public wanted to see her that way they did they want she believed they wanted the allure of natalie wood you know in those doris day movies how Doris Day always wears the cute little outfits to bed? I'm sure Natalie Wood would not want the world to know she slept in flannel socks

up to her knees and a flannel gown. Okay, absolutely. That is not glamorous. Okay, just telling you. So see, we're getting bogged down in the details. But you know what? What's funny, Cheryl? Do you remember all the times, all the cases I prosecuted? I would sit there and talk and talk and study and study exactly this. All the little details. Oh, yeah.

And you have often said, the devil's in the details. Mm-hmm. This woman, and you know Natalie Wood was not going anywhere without her underwear on. No. Not judging you, Cheryl, for going around without your underwear on. But what I'm saying is this woman would not do that. So, okay, off her flannel nightgown, what else do we know about that night, Cheryl? We know that they had a fight, and we know that Robert Wagner changed his story.

The broken wine bottle specifically, he said, oh, it must have been because the boat, you know, was rocking some, and it must have just fallen over. Well, that yacht wasn't moving in that water. And then he later changed the story and even wrote in a book that he smashed it over jealousy of Christopher Walken so again in my world once you change your story I'm focused on you completely you know that's what I always say Cheryl embell your story. Add to your story as much as you want to. But when you change your story, you've got a problem. Because I always learned, working with witnesses, that when I would sit down with them, which, of course, I would do before I put them on the stand, if you sit down and take time to talk to them and ask them question after question after question

you learn so much more than it's in a police report and they will embellish a lot of facts and details and descriptions as best they can but when they start changing the story then there's a problem. Now, let's talk about how, if he did, did Robert Wagner change his story about that night? What is his story about the sequence of events? His story was that she went off to bed. He went down later. She wasn't there. He looked for her. He went to the ship's captain. They looked through the whole yacht. They could not find her. And then they became panicked. But he still waits and waits and waits before he calls for help.

He waits and waits and waits before he calls for other people to come help and search and find her. He never turns the lights on. He never goes to Christopher Walken's room. So again, if I'm quote looking everywhere for her, the person that I was jealous of, the person that I thought she was flirting with, I would have at least gone to his stateroom and that never happened. Right. The big blow up that night was he, Wagner, was jealous that Natalie was paying attention to Christopher Walken. And they were having fun and talking.

They'd been working on a movie. As I recall, it was some kind of thriller, Brainstorm. That was the name of it. Her co-star was Christopher Walken. So Walken comes along. Bad weather was predicted that night, November 28th. There was a cold rain over isthmus bay it was pummeling the faces of anybody going ashore for dinner the sea wasn't that rough

however although it was a horrible night um let me understand so they are all three on the that's called the splendor was natalie's yacht they're celebrating it's thanksgiving and then the fight breaks out you know once you add alcohol into a scenario like this it's just like putting gas on a fire. So R.J., Robert Wagner, gets mad and starts a fight and actually says, What, do you want to F my wife? He says that to Walken. I guess that ended the party. Okay. Walken stomps off to bed, slams the door, and then the two of them continue to fight.

Also on board, the ship's captain. Then what happens? The ship's captain. Then what happens? The ship's captain is panicked. And he said, we've got to call for help. We've got to turn the lights on. And he said, no, leave her there. He said, leave her there. So that would make me think he knew where she was.

So then finally, after four hours. How do you know she's, he, Robert Wagner said, leave her there. That's what the ship's captain said that he told him. And I met with him personally. So then they decided to call for help. So Robert Wagner calls for help. And he tells over the radio, we have someone overboard in a 20-foot rubber dinghy. We.

So he includes other people in this and then says someone. He doesn't say my wife. He doesn't say Natalie. He doesn't identify her at all. So that, to me, is very important. If you remember, like, with JonBenet Ramsey, when Patsy referred to that child, trying to distance yourself at all is a clue to me. It wasn't someone. I know it sounds like a small clue, Cheryl, but it is a clue. And that has been repeated over and over in criminal cases.

When you refer to the victim or someone else, not by their name, but as, for instance, that child or someone. Now, remember, it was about 7 p.m. that evening that they had all been seated for dinner, and they ordered more and more champagne. And this was on, I believe, on shore. And the manager of the restaurant was so worried. He was afraid they were also intoxicated they couldn't get back to the yacht but they did okay and the drinking continued the fight breaks out walken storms away slams his door the fight continues and then suddenly how is everybody

alerted that natalie is missing and robert Robert Wagner went and told them they supposedly searched. And then that's when they called for help. And once help arrived, they had helicopters and everything. The dinghy was actually found a mile away from the yacht. And Natalie was found in the other direction, almost a mile away. A mile away? Almost. Now, was there a witness on a nearby craft that believed?

There was an ear witness, yes. She heard a lady screaming. Saying what? Help me. Wow. Okay. What else do we know we know that she had the wool socks on when they recovered her and that's key because if she would have been flailing around trying to save herself from drowning those socks very likely would have come off. We know that she had 300 cc's of urine in her bladder, which again makes you think she may not have been conscious when she went into the water, because normally if someone is drowning, they void.

And that's very typical. In fact, it would be abnormal for her not to urinate if you drowned. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's one of the things that leaked off the page to me when I read the autopsy. Which means the alternative to that is that she was knocked out before she was thrown in, and therefore she didn't void in the water. Correct. out before she was thrown in and therefore she didn't void in the water correct now that does not jive with a fellow crafter hearing her yelling help correct which is one of the things law

enforcement should have keyed in on at the time so again the socks the urine those things do not appear that she was actively drowning, but could have gone in the water unconscious and drowned. So that would equate for the urine and the water in her lungs. Repeat. She had water in her lungs, so she did take in water. But with the urine, that would explain she went into the water possibly unconscious, but still drowned, but was not flailing around. The night manager of the restaurant where they had eaten that evening, was that reading a book in the cabin of the boat where he lived year-round?

He heard the radio, the CB radio crackling, and he heard the conversation between Wagner and Miller. He radioed a friend, the night manager, Don Whiting, on the isthmus to go to the Wagner yacht pronto and report back. And 30 minutes after that, finally, 30 minutes after he did that, light beams from the Harbor Patrol boats, private boats from Baywatch, Coast Guard helicopters began to crisscross the ocean. They shined down on the waves, swept over yachts, ships. Nothing was found in the sea. It was 7.30 the following morning. A sheriff's helicopter headed toward Catalina.

Suddenly, a crew member saw a spot of red in the ocean waves. And they go down, and it is, face down, in a red jacket, Natalie Wood. Her hair splaying out around her face down in the water. The dinghy was discovered on shore even further south. The key, still in the ignition, turned in the off position. The gear neutral. The oars still tied down. Correct.

What does that mean? Here's what it means to me. The down jacket is what allowed them to find her. So, again, down float. So when they talk in the autopsy report that, oh, the jacket would have weighed 40 pounds, it would have just, you know, drawn her all the way down into the ocean. That jacket didn't weigh 40 pounds in the water. The jacket is the reason, again, they found her because down float.

So that jacket did not kill her. Police were shocked, yes, because the boat obviously had not been used at all. But here's another key thing. They said she failed getting into the boat. They just accepted that. She failed getting in. Nobody unties a dinghy and then gets in it. That dinghy being rubber on that water with that wind, as soon as you untie it, it's going to start moving.

Like a balloon in the wind it's moving so if she untied it first there ain't no getting in it that boat's gone she wouldn't have done that we already know here's the contrast it was clear she was not dressed to go on a boat ride but police believe she had to untie the dinghy. Why does she untie it if she didn't intend to go out in the boat? And again, you get in the boat, you get it all ready, you get the oars, you turn it on, then you untie it. Correct. That's how that works. And she knew that much.

And Nancy, look at it pre and post behavior. Look at post behavior. Even when this horrible thing happens, Robert Wagner doesn't even go and identify her body. Once again, he goes to the ship captain and makes him do it. Dennis DeVern identified Natalie Wood at the morgue. You know, another thing is, who told their children? Correct. Had passed away? Nastasha learned about it on the radio at a friend's house.

What? Nastasha learned about her mother's death, breaking news over the radio while she was at a friend's house. He didn't call her. He didn't go over there. He didn't call her. He didn't go over there. He didn't go pick her up. Now, you and I both have recently lost loved ones. My immediate concern became my children, how to explain it to them, how to help them through it.

I wanted to get to them as fast as I could. Not Robert Wagner. Did we learn anything from the search of the boat, of the yacht? Yes. Their stateroom was in disarray, the wine bottle, and again, the fact that he did not completely search it, the fact that he did not turn on searchlights, the fact that he did not call for help immediately, but allowed great time to pass. The fact that there was some jewelry in the room, part of her jewelry was off. So it looked like something disrupted her nightly routine. So her sister will explain to you, she took her jewelry off, she took her makeup off, she put her nightgown, and sister will explain to you she took her jewelry off she took her makeup off she put her night down and then she went to bed so that's how she did it so at some point

she decides she's going to put a jacket on because they're going outside so they're either going outside to finish arguing which the captain can hear um or he makes her put the jacket on and says, come with me. We don't know for sure, obviously. We weren't there. But at some point, she stops her nightly routine and puts on a jacket and goes outside with Robert Wagner. So Robert Wagner is the last person to see her.

He was arguing with her at the time. The ship's captain, Dennis DuVern, will tell you he saw her like shove her away shove her away or shove her toward the water we also know that according to the autopsy a widespread bruise diffuse it was about four inches by one inch spread over her right arm above the wrist. On the left wrist was a superficial fresh bruise about a half an inch in diameter. There were small superficial skin bruises scattered over her right Lower legs, fresh. The knee area on the left, recent bruising. The right ankle, recent bruise. And superficial bruises on the posterior, the back of both lower legs, covered. Covering her legs were covered in bruises. A vertical upwards brush type abrasion was on her cheek, her left cheek, as I recall.

That was her only head wound. What do you think? Correct. What do you think? I think that's a hell of a fall. If you can manage to hit the front of your legs and the back of your legs and both the wrists and your face. The front of your legs and the back of your legs. Well put.

That's not a fall. You don't fall and get bruised front and back. Not at all. It reminds me of the Kathleen Savio in the dry bathtub. And she had bruising everywhere. It looks to me like she might have had some type of physical fight and then hit maybe the swim step going in or maybe the swim step and part of the dengue, like she fell in between. But again, that doesn't appear completely accidental.

Some of those bruises were fresh, so possibly before she hit the water. What's happening right now in the investigation? Why has there never been an arrest? Well, right now, detectives are actively working the case. They have re-interviewed Christopher Walken. They have re-interviewed some other principal people, and the death certificate has been changed from accidental drowning to undetermined. So that's very significant to me that they would make that move. The case goes on. With me, the director of the Coal Case Institute, Cheryl McCollum. I'm Nancy Grace. Crime Stories signing off.

Goodbye, friend. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace presents another episode in our continuing focus on the Natalie Wood death mystery tomorrow. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.