Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Natalie Wood death mystery episode 3: The new evidence?

Episode Date: June 23, 2017

Natalie Wood’s death has been one of Hollywood’s biggest mysteries for over 35 years, but new evidence is emerging. It was ruled an accidental drowning soon after the actress’s body was found floating along a Catalina Island beach in 1981, but the death certificate was changed to “undetermined” based on revelations in Marti Rulli’s book “Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour.” This episode features Rulli, whose book convinced investigators to reopen the case. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Natalie Wood was one of the most popular, sought-after actresses in Hollywood. This is America's sweetheart. This story is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend, 1981, when Wood and her actor husband, Robert Wagner, went sailing on their yacht the splendor They were joined by actor and friend Christopher Walken. This is crime stories with Nancy grace Wagner notified Captain Dennis Davern that wood was not on board and I said to Robert Wagner I said let's turn on the searchlight to see if we can see her and he says no

We don't want to do that right now. Do you believe that maybe Robert Wagner has been hiding the real truth of what happened that night all these years? I fully believe that. We have received information which we felt was substantial enough to make us take another look at this case. It's old information that was never looked at that should have been looked at. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Joining us right now is a very special guest. It's Marty Rooley, co-author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, which is now available on Amazon and in audio on audible.com, Marty, thank you so much for being with us. The case against Robert Wagner, we have heard, has been reopened, according to sources. Let me rephrase that. Not the case against Robert Wagner.

The case of Natalie Wood's drowning death has been reopened. What do you make of that? I mean, when they say it's been reopened, what do they mean by that? The actual closed case in 1981 that was closed within days of Natalie's suspicious death was reopened in 2011, November 2011. And what I make of it is that I worked many years on trying to get that to happen and finally it did happen and the beautiful thing that came from it is that two new detectives were assigned to the case who left no stone unturned and they have ended up believing what I spent many years trying to get them to believe. And they interviewed hundreds of people, not just Dennis DeVern, who is the main eye and ear witness of Natalie's death, the night that she was actually in the ocean and Dennis saw everything that happened that led to her death. And these detectives now

believe that this homicide case should remain open because it is solvable. They have a suspect. They do not come out and say they have a suspect. It's been quiet, but it is not over. The Natalie Wood case is still an open and active case. Marty, after all of your energy, all of your time that you poured into the Natalie Wood death investigation, what do you believe is the most powerful evidence that suggests Natalie did not die by accident? It's more than just the argument and that more than one witness overheard on Saturday night. Everything leading to Natalie's death started months before this fateful cruise, that Thanksgiving weekend of 1981.

Robert Wagner traveled months ahead to visit Natalie in North Carolina, where she was filming with Christopher Walken on Brainstorm. He told Dennis DeVern he was going there to catch her cheating. He knew she was cheating. There's no evidence of that, but in his mind, that's what he thought he would go there and find. He came back. He seemed satisfied. He did not catch Natalie doing anything wrong. But his whole entire personality, demeanor changed at that time. He started disappearing at night. Dennis saw them on a daily basis, even in everyday life. And Robert Wagner wasn't coming to the boat. He wasn't available at night.

He was making comments to Dennis that were frightening. Dennis didn't know what was going on. He figured when Natalie was done, her location filming, everything would get back to normal. They'd start to come out on the boat. And that's what happened. Natalie finished her filming. It was Thanksgiving weekend, and she wanted to take her co-star of her new movie on the boat for a cruise. It's what that family did.

Robert Wagner had his people on board, the people he worked with. Natalie would have her co-star, Sean Connery, anyone she worked with, George Siegel, they would come on board. So Natalie invited Christopher Walken. There's a lot of speculation. Oh, she was cheating. It's like, who would have their co-star on board the boat with their husband and make him jealous? This is what that family did.

That's not what happened. So the Friday night of the cruise, the Friday night is the night people, the law, everyone should be focusing on. Friday night is when the arguing started. They were more, they were anchored in Avalon, where there's a lot of things to do on the island. Robert Wagner, late at night, did not want to stay in Avalon. He wanted to move to the remote, secluded part of the island where there's only one restaurant that closes about 10 30. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's Avalon? Avalon is the city on Catalina Island where there's activities, restaurants, curio shops. They were in a nice area for entertaining. Natalie just wanted to

entertain her co-star. Robert Wagner is who wanted to go to the other end of the island where it's very remote and quiet. Why? On Friday night when it's raining and cold, and that's the night the water was choppy, not the night Natalie died, the next night. Natalie refused. Robert Wagner went crazy with anger, pulling anchor, saying he's moving the boat. Natalie was afraid Friday night. And I think that's when the seed that was already growing in Robert Wagner grew to proportions that are sinister, that he wanted that quiet part of the island for reasons that have to do with what happened to Natalie the next night. So they stayed. Natalie left the island, left the boat, I'm sorry, with Dennis DeVern, and they went to Avalon, and Dennis and Natalie stayed in a hotel room together. Now, Natalie, she didn't like being alone.

She was afraid that night, probably more so of maybe her husband showing up than of strangers. Dennis stayed in the same room with Natalie, and she vented until four in the morning. They talked, and she was very upset with Robert Wagner why he was doing this to her. She was going to catch a sea plane in the morning, and how sad that there were no planes available, there wasn't a way off the island. She decided to go back to the boat. But they were going to go back to the mainland, which Dennis begged Robert Wagner to do. But Wagner was so apologetic. He was sweet again. He apologized to Natalie. Let's still go to the other end of the island is what he wanted to do. They went to two harbors at the Isthmus, and that's where they moored. And the only place there is a restaurant.

Robert Wagner is who told Natalie, go ahead to the island with Christopher and have yourself some drinks, and Dennis and I will join you later. And Natalie and Christopher took a taxi, a shore taxi, to the restaurant. Robert Wagner and Dennis joined them for dinner, for cocktails and dinner. But before that, Dennis still pleaded with RJ to leave and go home to the mainland. And RJ said to Dennis, no, Natalie will get what she came for and a lot more. And the way that Robert Wagner said that was so sinister that Dennis was so afraid something was going to happen that he pleaded again to leave for the mainland but they went to dinner and that's when the trouble started and then they got back to the boat the argument arguing started and that's it though that you say Robert Wagner

even though he was extremely jealous and he admits that of Christopher Walken, sends Natalie and Walken to go out drinking alone before he and Dennis get there. And they were all so inebriated, the restaurant owner was worried about them even getting back to the Splendor that night. Yes, that gave Wagner every reason to say she was out drinking with her co-star. He is the one who pleaded with them. You know, it was his way of apologizing. You two go have fun. I'm so sorry for last night. He was not sorry. A lot of people think that, you know, when Natalie went missing, Robert Wagner didn't know what to do. That's why he waited to call for help. I don't think he was worrying about planning what he would do. I think he was following a plan. You don't wait two and a half hours when your wife is missing to call a restaurant for help. And then another two hours on top of that to allow, he had to give permission for the

harbor master to call for help with the Coast Guard. And now medical evidence, since the new case has been reopened, medical evidence shows that Natalie was never conscious in the water. So there probably isn't much the Coast Guard could have done except maybe recover her body earlier than the morning time. But there are so many details in this case that, of course, do not reach the public yet. The media wants statements from the law. The law is hands off until they can make an actual arrest or form a grand jury because of the celebrity involved. Natalie's case is one of the strongest circumstantial cases ever. Any regular Joe

would already be in prison with far less evidence involved. And the case is, again, left in the hands of a few people who still care. I mean, thank goodness Lana Wood, Natalie's sister, is a blood relative who gave the nod to the Cold Case Institute now involved in this. And every single thing that they are investigating with experts and the forensic tests that I conducted in my own private investigation. The Cold Case Institution is now realizing everything that I've been saying for 30 years. And if, you know, a lot of people question Dennis DuVern, there's a lot of backstory there, too. But it's an open case, and I think that we will get to it. Let me ask you this. What's taking so long?

Celebrity. You know, the law is so afraid that a jury will not put Jonathan Hart behind bars, Beretta, Dr. Huxtable. It just happens. When celebrity is involved and the celebrity has a high-profile attorney attached, there's always the threat of being sued. You have to be careful how you word things. But now, Karina, in charge of this case at the LASD, he has come out in articles and said they do have a person of interest. They are focused on one person here. But, you know, the greater media just doesn't pick up on these things. They're not following a case where information isn't coming directly from the

authorities. And I understand that. And Robert Wagner, he's aging now. And the one thing that I would like to guarantee people is that even if this case does not make it to a courtroom, the truth will make it to be attached to Natalie's legacy because she does deserve that. I mean, my mantra is Natalie Wood didn't get drunk and fall off of a boat. Natalie is a victim, a beaten wife who was thrown into the ocean and left to die. And not because she did anything wrong, but just because her husband is a sociopath. And I'm not afraid to say it. I have the backup information to prove it. Tell me why you call him a sociopath.

All one has to do is read his autobiography. From page one, you can see that development in his personality. But there are a lot of people, psychologists, psychiatrists I've spoken with, you know, I've done my own profiling of Robert Wagner. And Dennis, now Dennis said, you never knew if this man was just in a perpetual acting job. I mean, he didn't change from being on a set to when he was on a boat to when he was at his house in the backyard barbecuing. He always had an act going. There are so many details that point to this sociopathic behavior. There are pathological liar behavior.

Even in an interview, you know, he'll sometimes slip and say things. Instead of Natalie fell into the water, that you would say if you know nothing, his words will be something like, and then she rolled off the swim step into the water. His visual, his mind's eye is probably verbalizing what he's seeing in his mind for what he saw that night. And an unconscious body doesn't roll off a swim step by itself. Question to you regarding calling him a sociopath. Of course, he denies any involvement in Natalie Wood's drowning death. It always struck me as very odd knowing her frame of mind, her MO, modus operandi, method

of operation, course of conduct. If you look at any photo of her, anytime she's out and about, even the grocery store, she's dressed up. When she's out even in a swimsuit with her family, she's got on a cover-up, wedge heels, one of those long scarves over her head, sunglasses, jewelry, the whole shebang. That was her deal. That was how she dressed there is no way in hell that woman went out in a flannel nightgown wool socks up to her knees no underwear and a flat and a down jacket in the middle of the night out on black ocean water and waves she was definitely afraid of yeah a five foot little petite lady gets down the side of that boat into a dinghy and plans to unrope it when

always she had the captain do it that's why they had him but so he could do it and she wouldn't have to do it. Okay? And Natalie never did that. Ever. That's why I don't change the oil. I break down. I pay somebody $25 to do it because I don't want to get up under the car and do it myself. Bam!

That's how that works. And she had the money where she could have this guy on board 24-7. And he was on board. So why is this woman who is, I'm not saying appearance obsessed, because she did that for her fans. I doubt she wanted to go through the drama of getting all fixed up every time she stepped out the door. But she did it because she said said people expect to see Natalie Wood. And I'm going to be Natalie Wood.

They expected to see a star. Yes. And that is what they're looking for. Natalie was from old Hollywood crossing over. But she still did what she thought her fans expected. And why out of this night of all nights now when she had rowed ashore. When she had gone ashore the previous night. She didn't drive the dinghy.

This is a crank-up ignition dinghy. It's not like you get out there and row, okay? But when that dinghy was found, the key was still in the off OFF position. Natalie never touched that dinghy. And that, Dennis DeVern does know. And Natalie never used the dinghy. But now Robert Wagner will say she used the dinghy that weekend. And a witness came forward and said she saw Natalie driving Christopher Walken in the dinghy. That did not happen.

Natalie never drove that dinghy on her own. There's ways to prove all these little nitpicking details that he said, she says, but the truth is documented now. And two homicide detectives are confident they have their man, but it's because of the department, they can't make a move. And it's because of a prosecutor. It is now time for the L.A. prosecution to come forward and do something with this case that still needs attention. They won't close the case, but they do need to do something with it. It's time. Why is Natalie Wood being treated differently than other victims?

What can you tell me? With me is Marty Rooley, co-author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor. It is found on Amazon.com. It's at audible.com if you want to hear her, if you want to hear it audibly. What is new? What information can you give us today? Well, the new autopsy results are, there was things missing in the original, overlooked in the original autopsy. Coroner Noguchi did not do a thorough job. And the main thing is that there is medical evidence that proves Natalie was unconscious before being in the water. But the bruises, Natalie's body was riddled with bruises, and they are now considered domestic violence bruises. There's no way that it could have come after these type bruises could have come after she was in the water. And so this new medical scientific evidence leads points to murder

and points to a victim here. And that is the main thing. It caused Natalie's death certificate to be changed from accidental drowning to suspicious undetermined causes. And now it's up to the authorities at the LASD to present the evidence that coincides with the new autopsy results. This case does deserve a grand jury. Now, a lot of new evidence has been uncovered since 2011. Well, it's documented evidence now.

It's not just someone saying this should be reopened. The case has been reopened, has been investigated. There are far more details than have ever been revealed. Such as what? Details about what happened the night before Natalie's death that leads to premeditation. There are details involved with new witnesses that came forward proving that Robert Wagner, since Natalie's death, went on missions to destroy other people's lives, Dennis DeVern being one of them, Lana Wood another. Anyone he thought could bring him trouble. He made sure he asked his friends, do this, do that. And they weren't nice things he was asking these people to do, to hurt these people's lives,

so that they appeared the uncredible people involved. So much misinformation has evolved with this death, this mystery death. But it's a simple, non-mystery. It's a classic case of husband kills wife. And authorities know that now, but celebrity is involved. There's a high-profile criminal defense attorney who's making videos and hiring people posing as experts in the Natalie Wood case. The experts are at the LASD. And maybe if the media, the mainstream media, started asking more questions. They might start to release more information. I am so relieved to hear that the cold case research investigation has came into this.

And it was her time to shine. She was back doing what she loved doing. And that irritated Robert Wagner so much led to why he did what he did that night. He was irritated. He was going to make her pay for it. He said those words to Dennis DeVern. She will pay for this. And as for Dennis DeVern, Robert Wagner, what he did with him after Natalie was missing was plead it with him, fed him alcohol, tried to make Dennis be on board with how he wanted to present this to the authorities. He pleaded with Dennis, don't hurt the girls, don't say anything. Dennis was put on an immediate guilt trip, and it started to eat away at him immediately. Dennis didn't come forward with his information 30 years later. He came forward with it just months after Natalie died, and no one would

listen to us. Nancy, it took decades for people to listen to us. And now it's still a full-blown homicide investigation. With me is Marty Rooley, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, available at Amazon.com and on Audible Books. We are hoping for justice in the Natalie Wood drowning case. Thank you for being with us. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.