Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NAVY WIFE IN FREEZER, medical examiner stumped

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

Elizabeth Sullivan, 31, was reported missing in 2014. Her body is found two years later in the San Diego Bay. Where has she been in the meantime? Investigators conduct a thorough search of her home. Forensic tests find Elizabeth Sullivan’s blood soaked into the wooden floor in her bedroom and the carpeting.A major clue, however, happens when a police cadaver dog reacts to a spot in the Sullivan garage where a refrigerator-freezer stood for several years.Joining Nancy Grace today: Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States" Dr. Michael B. Donner, Ph.D. - Psychoanalyst, Clinical and Forensic Psychologist, Author: "Tearing the Child Apart: The Contribution of Narcissism, Envy and Perverse Modes of Thought to Child Custody Wars", michaelbdonner.com @michaelbdonner Karen L. Smith - Forensic Expert, Lecturer at the University of Florida, Host of Shattered Souls Podcast, @KarensForensic, barebonesforensic.com Dr. Kendall Crowns – Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County, Texas (Austin) Levi Page - Crime Online Investigative Reporter, Host, "Crime and Scandal" True Crime Podcast, YouTube.com/LeviPageTV  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A body turns up in the San Diego Bay is part of a very long mystery. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A big mystery tonight in the waters of San Diego Bay. Police found a woman's body on the shore of the Liberty Station channel. NBC 7's Dave Summers is there with what might make this investigation quite challenging. Dave?

Yeah, well, the channel runs along NTC Park, Mark and Catherine. It's a popular spot to walk your dog, cycle, play soccer, just about anything outdoors. But San Diego police were called here on a grisly errand. A woman's body was found in the water behind me. Guys, the area where this body is found, San Diego Bay, is vast. Can you imagine a jogger or someone walking their dog suddenly seeing a body turn up? With me, an all-star panel to help dissect what we know matthew mingino attorney former district attorney author of the executioner's toll dr michael b donner psychoanalyst clinical forensic psychologist and author of tearing the child apart and you can find him at michael

b donner.com karen smith forensics expert host of shattered souls podcast and you can find him at MichaelBDonner.com. Karen Smith, forensics expert, host of Shattertolls podcast. And you can find her at BareBonesForensic.com. Deputy medical examiner. I believe that's deputy chief medical examiner for Travis County, Texas. That's Austin, Dr. Kendall Crowns. But first, to CrimeOnline.com investigator investigator Levi Page. Levi, hold on one moment. You were just hearing our friend Dave Summers at NBC7 in San Diego. Take a listen again. San Diego Police and Harbor Police began investigating just after four o'clock today.

Busy time here with plenty of park visitors because of the slope of the bank, though, the woman's body was not easily seen. Now, homicide detectives were not summoned, but that shouldn't rule out the possibility of foul play just yet. An investigator on scene tells NBC7 the woman's body was badly decomposed, that she had been dead for some time, and identifying the cause of death and her identity could be challenging. Straight out to Deputy Chief Medical Examiner in Travis County, Texas, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Dr. Crowns, when a body has been in the water for, let's just say, a week, let's start with a day versus a week versus a month versus a year,

what happens to the body as far as figuring out who it is? So when the body's on the water, you're going to get decomposition rates that are a little altered depending on the temperature of the water. If the water's colder, it'll slow the decomposition down. If it's warmer, it'll speed it up. But the other thing you get is scavenging by the aquatic creatures like turtles and fish and things of that nature. So you can still determine what the entries were if enough of the body's left intact, but you will see significant scavenging and increased decomposition rates, especially in warm water. You know, this bay is around 12 miles long

and three miles wide at certain locations. That's very, very tough. Let me just say, I want to call it terrain, but circumstances under which to search. Is there another victim? Is there a child victim? Are there items in the water that could identify this woman? Straight back to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Levi, what do you know about the discovery?

They could obviously tell it was a woman body. December 7th, 2016. And that is what appears to be a woman's body is found on the shore of San Diego Bay. And the body has been in a state of decomposing. It had been decomposing and they were unable to identify who it was when it washed ashore because it had been decomposing. It had been decomposing and they were unable to identify who it was when it washed ashore because it had been decomposing. But they could tell it was a woman. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, how long would it take for the body to be so decomposed you can't even tell who it is? Again, that would depend on the temperature of the water, but it could take several weeks to the point that you can't readily identify them

to the point that you would have to go with dental records and DNA, especially if there's increased scavenger activity. It'll quickly obscure people's faces. You know, you're putting that very delicately. Thank you. Guys, we're talking about the San Diego Bay and a body washing up. The first thing they know is that it's a woman. That's all they can tell. The body is so decomposed. Now, let's think about where we are. San Diego Bay is in a very highly urbanized area next to San Diego, which is the ninth largest city in the U.S., if I'm correct on that. So this could be anybody. And another issue to Karen Smith, forensics expert. Karen, that's just San Diego. What if the body were dumped somewhere off a bridge and it's not even someone missing from San Diego? That really complicates identifying the victim. Yeah, it does. I mean, two hours from Los Angeles, 12 million to one. I mean, yeah, it could be anybody, Nancy. And you don't know how this woman's body got in the water. You know, was it an accidental death?

Was it a homicide? We don't know. And until the medical examiner can hopefully find some evidence of cause and manner of death, the detectives at that point had to make identification and then wait for the information. What about currents in a bay that big? We typically think, Karen, of currents being in the ocean, but in a bay that big, or, for instance, in one of the Great Lakes, I remember seeing waves coming in off of a great lake. And I couldn't understand how there can be waves in a lake. But in a body of water that big, you have waves. So we don't even know if that's where she was dumped because of the water's motion.

That's right. I mean, the St. Johns River ran right through Jacksonville. And believe me, when we would get a large storm, that water would wash over the seawall. It was really torrential and really high waves. And that water would move very fast. So just because it's a bay doesn't mean the water is not moving. And sometimes it can move very quickly. And depending on the current, the direction, which way it was going. It can give some detectives some information,

but it's still really, really difficult to figure out where that body entered the water. And you have to start from the end point where you found it. To former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Matthew Mangino, author of The Executioner's Toll, The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words final words and executions of 46 persons in the U.S. That's a mouthful. Dr. excuse me, Matthew Mangino, as a an attorney, did you ever as a prosecutor, did you ever have to prosecute a Jane Doe where you did not know the victim or her identity? Well, yes. I mean, that's an unfortunate part of the job that you deal with,

you know, missing persons and persons that you can't identify. You know, here in this case, you know, we don't know what we have. We have a woman whose body's found in the bay. We don't know if her death was accidental if her death was suicide or if there's anything uh you know suspicious about her death certainly it's a tragedy certainly well wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute hold on matthew mangino when you find a woman washing up dead decomposed so you can't identify her right there i would say that's suspicious so i don't know what you mean by you got to figure out if it's suspicious. It's suspicious, Matthew.

Oh, no, there's no question. Are you trying to say you don't know if it's a suicide or a homicide? Well, yeah, I mean, we don't know if there's foul play. You know, that's the fundamental question here. Was her death, was it a suicide? Was it accidental? Did she fall into the bay? Or, you know Or was she murdered? Those are the three questions that have to be reviewed immediately and a decision made. Well, I agree.

But when you said you got to figure out if it's suspicious, if I find a dead body, I'm suspicious. I'm naturally suspicious. I think anybody would be suspicious when you find a dead body. But you're right. There's only three things suicide homicide or accident so yes you got to determine that and back to you dr kendall crowns joining us out of austin with a body this decomposed how do you figure out if which one of those three choices it is so what you would look if you have enough of the body left that you can still look for injuries, you would then look at the injuries and determine if you felt that they were accidental in nature or suicide or homicide. So it would just depend on what injuries are found on the body. Let's say it's someone who jumped in the water from a ledge.

You wouldn't necessarily find any injuries. So it would be consistent with a drowning. And it could end up being determined undetermined if you can't differentiate the injury. It would just depend on the injury pattern as how you would determine the manner of death in this particular case. crime stories with nancy grace guys we are talking about a body that washes up on the shores of the san diego bay nine or ten miles long about three miles wide at points. That is a huge body of water. And as I said

earlier, it's next to a very highly urbanized area of San Diego. So this woman could be anybody. Back to you, Dr. Kendall Crowns, joining us out of Austin. Dr. Crowns, question. So you look at the body, the body is decomposed. You can't even tell who it is. So I guess you're going to have to use DNA or you're going to have to use dental records. Which one of those do you do first? So first you start with fingerprints. If you can still get a fingerprint off of them, you will use that. Actually, you can still get a fingerprint from a lot of decomposed bodies. After fingerprints, then you go with a dental. Which finger do you

try first, doctor? Standardly thumb. Index. Actually thumb. Thumb. Ah, okay. Didn't know that. Go ahead. Well, actually the skin will de-glove and decomposition. So it'll come off like a glove and then you can actually put it on your own hand and get the fingerprints from that. But once the fingerprint option is out, then you go to... Wait, what did you just say? So... What did you say? So when you're skin, when you decompose your epidermis or the upper layer of your skin comes

off and you can actually take that upper layer of skin off the hand and then put it on your own hand and then get fingerprints that way because you can just get it from the epidermal layer of skin off the hand and then put it on your own hand and then get fingerprints that way because you can just get it from the epidermal layer of the skin. Okay right there let me just drink that in for a moment. So you take the skin off their thumb. Correct. You put it on your thumb and then do a fingerprint. Yeah I'm pretty sure. Are you sure? Well, I have. Because I've never heard that in my life. And it's really skeeving me out.

Even I can get skeeved out about criminal investigations. Well, it is something we do. I have pictures that you'd like to see. Yes. As a matter of fact, I would. Because I'm not sure I'm really buying your whole story. But, okay. So you start with fingerprints.

Then what do you do next? Dental records or DNA once fingerprints are out oh and by the way I do know what I'm doing I'm right but anyway once fingerprints are out you move on to dental records if you have a presumptive ID then you can get the dental records of that individual and make comparisons. After that, if they have any medical devices, you can use those to look for serial numbers. And then after you exhaust all those possibilities, we move on to DNA, which you can get from a tooth or a fragment of bone, specifically usually the femur or a rib. And then we'll send those to the state crime lab to do dna matches a femur is the long part of the leg that's correct above or below the knee above the knee

hip to knee is the femur what's below the knee uh tibia and fibula okay so you start with trying to get a fingerprint then you go to um dental dental then you try dna which can take longer so if this person doesn't have a record and their dna is not in the dna database yeah you have to have a presumptive id and they never have been to the dentist you're just up the creek without a paddle right that's correct when in those cases if we have no idea who they are uh it just ends up in being they become unidentified you know we're kind of talking inside baseball here but karen smith just to continue doing it um have you ever handled a jane doe where you never knew the woman's identity yes initially yes and it took some time to get that body all the way

through no no i never had a murder case where we never knew the woman's identity. That is so hard to crack a case like that because you don't know what her identity is. So you don't know her friends. You don't know where she was last. I'm referring to a woman I found. I didn't find her. It was reported. Then I went there. She was dumped out in a field and she remains a Jane Doe to this day. I had to prosecute a guy, never knew who the victim was. Wow. And it's very upsetting, Karen. Very upsetting.

Absolutely. It's heartbreaking because, you know, the one thing that you want to do is return that victim to their family. And you can't if you don't know who they are. Guys, we were talking about a body that washes up on San Diego Bay Shore. Back to you, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Exactly how was the woman's body found? It washed ashore and people called 911 that saw it.

Like joggers or people walking by? Yes, and then police came on the scene and discovered this decomposing body. We are talking about a woman's body that washes ashore. She's Jane Doe. Doesn't it make you wonder, is there a husband? Is there a family? Are there children out there? Are her mom and dad looking for her?

Who could she possibly be? Well, we get at least one answer in this case. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Elizabeth Sullivan's decomposing body was found just a half mile from her home, floating in the San Diego Bay. She'd been missing for two years, but a former San Diego County deputy medical examiner who helped conduct the autopsy says decomposition made it difficult to narrow down her time of death. It also led to another conclusion. The medical examiner did not believe that Elizabeth had been in the bay for the two years she was missing. He said the decomposition

would have been more advanced. The autopsy showed that Elizabeth's body was decomposing in a way that indicated she had lain for some time on one side. Sullivan was identified through dental records. Back to you, Dr. Kendall Crowns, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner joining us out of Austin. What does that mean? Our friends at Crime Online just gave a really weird twist to this case. What are they trying to say? What they're trying to say is basically that if they've identified an individual who's been missing for two years, but the body's still intact to the point that they're not skeletonized at two

years floating around in the water. I mean, they should have been at minimum skeletonized and probably not able to be found. And the fact that she washed up means that she was pretty intact. So what is being said there, it's not, it's incongruous with the amount of time she's been missing and the amount of decomposition that we've seen. There's some intervening factor that either she was alive during the time period she was missing or something else has happened that caused her not to decompose as much. I don't know how they can tell all that

from looking at the body, but that is what we are. That's the information that we're given. We are told that the medical examiner that first looks at the body does not believe that she has been in the water the entire time. So what does that mean? Guys, we're trying to figure out who is Elizabeth Sullivan and how has the medical examiner come to the decision that she was not in the water the entire time she's been missing. Obviously, they find out information about her. Take a listen. Matthew and Elizabeth Sullivan meet in Virginia. That's where Elizabeth grew up and where Matthew Sullivan was stationed in the Navy. In 2010, they get married and moved to San Diego after Matthew's transferred. The couple have two children, daughters, two years apart. Matthew serves eight years in the U.S. Navy and is honorably discharged

in 2016 with the rank of petty officer. Now we know who she is. So back to you, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. We now know that she moved around with her husband who has been in the Navy. They get married. They move to San Diego after he, Matthew, gets transferred. They have two children, daughters two years apart. And somewhere between learning that and the day her body is discovered, everything seemingly is a big blank. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories. A body washes ashore at San Diego Bay.

For a while, she's a Jane Doe, until somehow, miraculously, through methods that have been outlined by Deputy Chief Medical Examiner out of Austin, Dr. Kendall Crowns, we figure out her name is Elizabeth Sullivan. And somewhere out there, she's got two daughters and a husband. Let's digest what we have just heard. To Levi Page, brand new developments in a search for a Navy wife, Elizabeth Sullivan. According to

Search for Elizabeth GoFundMe page, she was in touch with her father every single day and then suddenly just seemingly dropped off the map. What do we know, Levi Page? Yeah, we know that a friend called police and said, I haven't heard from her. I'm worried about her. She's missing. This search is kicked off. And police say that the vehicle that she drives was still at the home with the family, but her cell phone was nowhere to be found, and it was turned off. So immediately things were a little bit suspicious. So you're telling me the cell phone didn't just go missing, that it was turned off? It was turned off.

So to Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor and now author, Matthew, that means either somebody turned it off or she turned it off herself. What clue does that give us? Well, it really doesn't give us much of a clue other than the fact that that we know that she's not having any contact with anyone. You know, and that's unusual. I mean, you know, cell phones are something that we rely very heavily on, and to just have a cell phone go dead and not have any further communication on that is obviously suspicious. And she hasn't been seen. No one's heard from her.

Her cell phone's not being used. Those are unusual conduct for a young woman. Well, we also have evidence of behavior or routine. To Dr. Michael B. Donner, psychoanalyst, Dr. Donner, for instance, they say here, she spoke to her father every single day, and then suddenly, out of the blue, that just stopped and she was reported missing. So I find that very, very strong behavioral evidence. Explain. It's very worrisome, Nancy, when somebody has a strong relationship with a family member or

friend and then disappear. Family's going to be very worried and it's a sign of considerable concern. I agree it's a sign of considerable concern. I agree it's a sign of considerable concern. You put it so delicately. You're quite the master at euphemism. I say it's a sign that something stinks. Something has gone horribly wrong. To you, Karen L. Smith, forensics expert, I know you deal with, let me say physical forensics, blood spatter, fingerprints, fibers, hair, all sorts of DNA. But what about behavioral evidence? That's part of a police officer's job, Nancy. You know, we deal with psychological stuff all the time. We have to get into the mind of people and figure out not only victimology, but if anything happens, we have to figure out what the motivation behind that was. And to me, when you have a cell phone that is used every

single day that all of a sudden is now turned off, that starts some kind of a timeline for me. That's what that tells me. It's the start of some kind of a timeline. You know what's interesting? Almost laughable. We were not talking about trying to identify a body and when Elizabeth went missing. Behavioral evidence is even proven through animals. actually started their timeline the night of the double murder with the, quote, plantive whale of the dog, the pet belonging to Denise Brown. I think the dog's name was Akita. The neighbors had never heard that before. I think it was there in Brentwood. Had never heard that before. And think it was there in Brentwood. Had never heard that before.

And they all knew the dog. The dog got walked. It got taken everywhere by Denise and her children. So they knew Akita. And when they heard that sound, it was so unusual, such odd behavior for the dog, that really began the timeline for many legal eagles the night that denise brown and ron goldman or were brutally murdered by simpson that started the timeline so if you can count on the behavior of a dog of course you can count on the behavior of a grown

woman and mother and from what i'm understanding, to Levi Page, there were no prior indications that she suffered any emotional or mental disturbances. Is that correct? You're correct, Nancy. So what about the husband? This guy apparently is really taking it hard. Take a listen now to Steve Helling at People. He says that he's lost 25 pounds. He's,

you know, not eating. He's not sleeping. And for a while he wasn't working. And then he finally decided that he would go back to work just to give himself some normalcy and also to give some normalcy to their daughters as well. Well, and we mentioned that family members are coming to San Diego. He must be holding out hope along with the rest of the family. Yes, everybody is holding out hope. You know, it's just, it's been a month. So obviously they're putting a brave face on it, but everybody's very worried. You know, somebody who's gone for a month, a mother of children, that's a scary situation.

It's so scary. What does he say about their daughters? They're so young, two and four years old. Do they understand what's going on here at all? Not exactly. They don't exactly know what's happening, but they still are giving them some counseling right now, you know, and trying to work through it. They're just confused. They're little, little girls. So that makes this a lot more heartrending than it would have been otherwise. Joining us is Dr. Michael B. Donner, psychoanalyst. And you can find him at michaelbdonner.com. These children were so little when mommy goes missing.

What effect does that have on them? And we keep hearing, as our friend Steve Heller from People Magazine said, they were confused. They didn't know what was going on. How does that affect a child to grow up without their mother? When young children lose a parent, especially a mother, there are going to be some very significant attachment issues. The children rely on their mothers for safety and security, for psychological stability. And when a mother just disappears, it's going to be terrifying for the child because they don't really have the capacity to understand what happened.

You can't explain it to them. They just know that someone that they relied on, needed for their physical and emotional needs, is just gone like in the blink of an eye. It's very distressing and very disturbing and has lifelong effects. I was just going to ask you that. How does that affect a child as they grow up? Well, it'll have an effect on their ability to form relationships and attachments, not on every single child, but on many. It'll be a challenge for them because they won't feel safe. They won't have the same kind of trust and security that a loved one will be there for them.

So they're going to tend to be a little bit more suspicious. Of course, it creates psychological difficulties in childhood and adolescence when they're going to be more likely to use substances, get into difficult and sometimes even abusive relationships because the nature of their internal world has been shaken, and the world just doesn't feel safe to them anymore. So, I guess, to put it simply, it haunts them the rest of their lives. I've noticed that it seems to affect children more when they lose their mother. Why is that? In most families, the mother is what we call the primary attachment figure, the primary caregiver. So the mother especially, again, this is in most families, not all, but in most,

the mother is the person that does the majority of the caretaking of children and has the primary bond and attachment for the child. The fathers are important, or the other parents are important too, but they are generally sort of more likely to be introducing the child to the outside world, where the mother's role is the psychological and physical development of the child in the very early, most critical stages of life. And I understand that those roles easily can shift depending on circumstances, but I see what you're saying.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So this woman, Elizabeth Sullivan, is a Jane Doe. Then she's identified, and then we find out she is a mother, a husband losing 25 pounds during the search. Take a listen now to CBS 8, San Diego. When Elizabeth Sullivan went missing in October 2014, no one knew what happened to her. Did she run away or was it something worse? Our missing persons unit did an extensive investigation trying to find her, find out what happened with her with negative results. Nearly two years later, on October 4th, 2016, police found a human body in the San Diego Bay. We went out there as a dead body. It was in a state of decomposition. And then through, obviously, forensically, we were able to eventually identify the body as that of Elizabeth Sullivan. It was just a few blocks from where Sullivan lived, and police now suspect

foul play. We believe she was murdered, and I can't get into details on why we believe that. It's an important part of our ongoing investigation. You know, it just strikes me right there at the beginning to Dr. Kendall Crowns. And I'm going to ask, this is the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner joining us from Travis County, Texas, Austin. Dr. Crowns, this is beyond your expertise in performing thousands of autopsies and your medical degree,

but this immediately reminds me of top mom Casey Anthony, where two-year-old Kelly was found about nine houses down from the Anthony family home. It reminds me of the Bonnie Lee Bakley murder, where Bonnie Lee Bakley, who many believe was murdered by movie star Robert Blake,

was found right there where Blake left her at an Italian restaurant, Vitello's, when he went in to go retrieve the gun he lost, and then the murder weapon was found in a dumpster a block or two away. In other words, convenience for the killer. The body here is found very near the family home. How often do you see that, Dr. Kendall Crowns? Yeah, it's quite

often. Usually when someone murders someone, they don't go to a lot of effort to take the body somewhere far from their home or to dump it or dispose of it. It's very rarely that we see in homicides where they'll cut the body up and then distribute the pieces all over the place so people can't find them or identify them. It's very rare. Usually most murderers are fairly lazy, and they either dump the body close to where they live or just leave it at the scene. Guys, now we realize, as we're trying to find out who this woman is,

she's been missing for two years, but her home is very near the spot where her body washes ashore. What does that tell you forensically, Karen Smith? It tells me that, I mean, something happened within that very confined area, Nancy. I mean, you know, it's not rocket science. You always look at the people closest to a victim first. And the fact that she was found so close to home, I mean, as an investigator. To her own neighborhood. Yeah, that just leads me right to the house as my primary place to start looking for evidence. Take a listen to Tyler Hunt at Crime Online.

Investigators conduct a thorough search of the home. Forensic tests find Elizabeth Sullivan's blood soaked in the wooden floor in her bedroom and in the carpeting. A knife found in the attic also has traces of Sullivan's blood. Matthew Sullivan says the blood in the carpet is a result of Elizabeth's self-harming and that she was also likely the one who hid the knife. However, another major clue. A police cadaver dog reacts to a spot in the Sullivan garage where a refrigerator freezer had stood for several years. Did you hear that? A refrigerator freezer. It's all starting to fit together. How this woman

was dumped in San Diego Bay. She's been missing two years. But at the first moment the medical examiner sees her, he, she says, this woman has not been in the water for two years. So where has she been? To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Austin, how can you tell if a dead body has ever been frozen? It's actually something that you can't really tell on the body.

You might get a bit of a reddish change to the skin coloration if they've been frozen. But other than that, really freezing doesn't leave any physical signs on the body beyond the reddish coloration and the lividity that occasionally appears. So I guess the medical examiner looked at the level of decomp and knew she, based on that alone, she had not been in the water for two years. He didn't know she had been frozen. Wow. Okay. Take a listen to NBC7's Wendy Fry. This is our cut 10. Listen. On October 13th, 2014, Matthew Sullivan, Elizabeth's spouse, told police he had been fighting with his wife about custody and child support for their two young girls, then ages two and four. In one of his statements to police, he reported Sullivan made a mess of the bedroom and took photos.

NBC7 discovered records from another 911 call made about six months prior to Elizabeth's disappearance. Elizabeth called 911 this time during an argument and told police there was a history of domestic violence between the couple. Shortly after her disappearance, Elizabeth's father flew to San Diego from the family's home in Virginia to speak with NBC7 and beg for his daughter's safe return. I feel like she's in trouble. To Matthew Mangino, veteran trial lawyer, you hear when the blood is found soaked down in the carpet. Now, this is two years later, okay, that the husband says it's because Elizabeth, quote, self-harmed. So she mortally self-harmed, and I guess what does that mean?

Committed suicide via self-harming, and then marched herself to the San Diego Bay and threw herself in? Yeah, I mean, the explanation of self-harm for the pool of blood that's soaked into the carpet, you know, seems to be lacking in any veracity. The issue is the evidence is beginning to mount in this case. Obviously, we know that it's a homicide because the pathologist said that, but didn't say the method. We now have blood. We now have a knife. We now have a history of some domestic abuse or domestic quarrel. So the evidence is beginning to grow in this case. And it all seems, you know, to point to something in the home that resulted in her death. Guys, take a listen now to Anjo Nomura, Fox 5 San Diego.

Neighborly romance that became romantic and warm very quickly, started to cool. Separate bedrooms, domestic violence, infidelity, financial issues, and threats of restraining orders. These are the hallmarks of a marriage in crisis. Prosecutors and defense attorneys presented their opening statements to a jury in the case against Matthew Sullivan. The former Navy sailor is facing a first-degree murder charge for allegedly killing his estranged wife, Elizabeth Sullivan. Elizabeth's body was found in the San Diego Bay in 2016 after she reportedly disappeared in 2014. She was stabbed to death and they found five different ribs on her left side and on her back that had nicks or cuts in them. Straight out to you, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Nicks and cuts on her back?

I guess they're referring to her bones? What does that mean to you? Nicks and cuts on her back. I mean, to me, if she has a possible sharp force injury of her back, which is difficult to reach if you're doing it to yourself. So it could be potentially sharp force injury perpetrated by another individual. Also, the Nixon cuts could be from depending on where she was recovered from the ocean or the shoreline rocks in the water things of that nature but how could they tell she was stabbed dead how could they tell she was found

stabbed i mean she would have stabbed wounds that would be they have a particular pattern to them when you see them you know they're stab wounds so depending on how they look on her body i'm sure the medical examiner assessed them and could tell they were stab wounds and then there was probably internal injuries associated with them. Is that why it's required sometime that the victim's skin be pulled away from their body to look for internal damages? Correct. That's part of an autopsy. The epidermal dermal layer or the upper layer of skin is pulled away to expose the musculature and bones and then those are pulled away to show the damage to the organ. The end of the story,

take a listen to NBC7. A judge is sending a former Navy man to prison for the brutal stabbing death of his wife. Late this afternoon, Matthew Sullivan was sentenced to 16 years to life in prison for the second degree murder of Elizabeth Sullivan. She disappeared in 2014. Her body was discovered in the San Diego Bay two years later. Sullivan heard statements from Elizabeth's closest friends today about how much her death has affected loved ones. There are no words to describe this pain that still sits in the pit of my heart. Show no mercy. Show no mercy.

16 to life. Her children have been sentenced to a life sentence without their mother. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.