Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NEIGHBOR'S YARD DUG UP After Tot Boy Michael Vaughn Vanishes

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

It's been over a year since Michael Vaughn vanished from his family home. Tips lead police to the home of a neighbor, Sarah Wondra. The 35-year-old was charged with failure to report the death of 5-year-old Vaughan.  Police then spent more than a week excavating the home's backyard and announced their findings. FPD Chief JD Huff says police believe Vaughan's body was buried in Wondra's backyard and then moved to another location.  All the cadaver dogs used in the search "alerted" in the yard. Ground penetrating radar also detected "anomalies." Additional evidence was found in the home, but that information is not yet being released.   Huff also announced the identities of two other people thought to have knowledge in  Vaughan's disappearance,  Brandon Shurtliff, 30,  and Adrien Lucienne, 32. Both men are now out of state. Shurtliff and Lucienne were staying at the Wondras' home.   The search for Michael Vaugh's body continues.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself" Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA), DrBethanyMarshall.com, New Netflix show: ‘Bling Empire’   Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" & Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Robert Crispin - Private Investigator & Former Federal Task Force Officer for United States Department of Justice, DEA and Miami Field Division; Former Homicide and Crimes Against Children Investigator;" Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations, Inc.  Sydney Sumner - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A five-year-old little boy seemingly drops off the face of the earth wearing nothing but boxer shorts and a blue Minecraft t-shirt. In the last days, is there a break in the case of missing Tot Michael Vaughn? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at KTVB. We are in the fifth day of law enforcement and search and rescue crews excavating the backyard of that house behind me, the address 1102 Red Wing Street in the town of Fruitland, just four minutes away from the Vaughn family home. Today, however, was much calmer than it's

been. We've had heavy machinery here the last few days. Today, mostly people here with shovels, and already it's 4 p.m and crews are done chief huff though saying they could be out here for another week as they continue to process that backyard they're not done yet they're taking the dirt from that backyard and they're bringing it to a location off-site and they're analyzing that dirt okay that's never a good sign when people are searching for your child and they bring in an excavation crew. Now, you may ask, why are they taking soil samples from the backyard, taking it away from this home, several homes down from Michael Vaughn's family home? Why are they taking dirt to the crime lab?

We've got an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now in the recent development and the case of missing tot Michael Vaughn. But first, let me go to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Starving You, hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, please explain in regular people talk, Joe Scott,

why they are taking soil samples. And I want you to hearken back to the case of Kristen Smart. Remember, remember the killer's backyard had a deck and cops went under the deck with ground penetrating sonar and found a disturbance of the dirt and they went in and actually took soil samples. So this is similar to the Christian Smart case in that respect. Explain. Yeah, it is in the sense that you're looking for elements that would be connected to human remains and human decomposition. Excuse me, are you trying to say they're looking for blood in the dirt? Well, no, it's not just blood. You're not just looking, you're looking for any kind of biological sample. Human decomposition. Anything related to decomposition.

Certainly, blood is part of that. But you have to consider all elements. And the fact that they've brought in an excavator, this is not delicate work like Kristen's smart. They're taking huge, huge samples of earth. And they're going to sift through every bit of that but they're having to be very very careful nancy let's talk about ground penetrating radar um i guess robert crispin joining me private investigator former federal task force officer uh u.s department of justice dea it goes on and on and on you can find them at CrispinSpecialInvestigations.com That's CrispinInvestigations.com

Robert, you and I have both worked with ground penetrating sonar. It's just like sonar on a fishing boat. Right? Because the sonar on a fishing boat you can actually look, kind of looks like a sonogram. Get it? Sonar, sonogram. You see black a black area and then you see gray waves. When you do a sonogram. Get it? Sonar, sonogram. You see a black area and then you see gray waves. When you do a sonogram on a mom, you see the baby in a gray shadow. When you do sonar with a fishing

boat, you can actually see the fish, gray figures, swimming under or around your boat. Ground penetrating radar sonar would show the earth where you're looking is black or gray, but then you see waves in it. You can see where dirt has been disturbed that should not have been disturbed. And it's done with something that looks like a metal detector. Have you ever seen that done, Robert? Oh, I have. And it brings to light a couple of things. And it's only been a year since they've actually start to dig

and have a lead to do something like this. And they're hoping that because it's only been a year, that when they put this sonar out there, that they're going to see something that is either there and not decomposed already or a picture of a body that's still somewhat intact or dirt that hasn't been rained on so much that it's kind of filtered its way and gone back to its normal setting of how it was in the beginning so So this is a very, very amazing technique that they use, but there's some very specific things that are coming to light

about how much they're digging after they're doing the sonar. You know, they're saying they're going three and four feet. That's very specific. That came from somewhere. You're right. They're going down three to four feet, and that's a very specific dig. You said it's amazing technology, and I agree with you,

but Robert Crispus, it's not. It ain't rocket science, okay? It ain't brain surgery. It's like a metal detector. Haven't you been to the beach? Dr. Bethany Marshall joining me. Psycho-Analyst to the Stars

at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, have you ever been to the beach and you're enjoying the waves and the sand and the seagulls and for one minute you're not working? Yeah. And you see somebody, some guy, it's usually either kids or an old white male, with a metal detector, blipping along, trying to find somebody's, where they've dropped money, or a watch, or a ring. That's what this looks like.

You ever seen that? I have definitely seen that. Or they're looking for a wedding ring, a diamond, you know, some treasure there. And that's exactly what this looks like. Guys, we are learning that down the street from this taut boy's home, the backyard is dug up. But where did the whole thing start? Take a listen now to our friends at Idaho News 6. Fruitland police are searching for a missing and endangered five-year-old. The boy,

Michael Vaughn, was last seen in the area of Southwest 9th in Arizona in Fruitland late Tuesday. He was wearing a light blue Minecraft shirt and dark blue boxer briefs with sandals. Anyone with information should call 911, the Payette County Sheriff's Office, or Fruitland Police. Nancy, if I could jump in, you know, wasn't there a description of what he was wearing on the day he went missing? Yeah, we just heard that. And I said it earlier. Right. Sandals.

Go ahead. Well, they wouldn't just be looking for decomposition. They would be looking for that clothing. Right? It's been a year. Clothing doesn't completely degrade in a year. The body would not be degraded in one year. There would at least be skeletal remains at the very, very least, but I would suggest that there would still be, it's hard for me to talk about connecting it to this little boy,

Michael Vaughn, but there would be a substantial amount of his body left if it had been buried at the very least, skeletonized remains. But what they're looking for right now in this person's backyard, for Pete's sake, is any disturbance in the ground. Sydney Summer joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Sydney, thank you for being with us. Let's just go back to the day that Michael Vaughn seemingly disappears. Who, what, where, when, why? Just hit me. Gotcha. July 27th of 2021 is the last time anyone saw Michael Vaughn. He was at home with his father and his baby sister. And while his father

stepped out of the room to change the baby's diaper, Michael must have left. His mom suggests that he left through the garage, thinking that they would have heard him had he left through the front door. And there's reports that he was going around to several neighbors homes to try to find a child to play with outside okay let me just drink in what sydney summer has just told me okay let's go to high profile lawyer out of jack civil former fbi agent former cop author of arrest proof yourself you can find him at daleCarsonLaw.com. Dale, let's analyze what Sidney Sumner just told us. And everybody remember, this is not high tea at Windsor Castle.

Jump in. Dale, so dad changes baby daughter's diaper, and in that time, Michael Vaughn, five-year-old tot boy, wearing sandals, I think they're strap-on sandals, like, you know, Birkenstocks, boxers, and a light blue

Minecraft t-shirt, leaves the home, purportedly to find somebody to play with. I find that troubling, but believable. I think I told you this, but believable. I think I told you this story, Dale Carson. My longtime friend, Joy Jones, lives across the street from us growing up.

Very rural area. Four brothers and sisters in her home. Three in our home. The first time we ever met, I was about, I don't know, four. And I wandered over there, knocked on the door, and asked for a cookie. It can happen. So that is not, many people are arguing, Dale Carson, well, wait, why didn't he notice? How long did it take to change a diaper? It can happen. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, Dale Carson. I don't know why you're saying that.

You're stereotyping, but okay, go ahead. Let's see if I can dig a kernel of rationale out of what you're saying. Yeah, women aren't curious. Did you hear that, Dr. Bethany? Forget all the questions you've ever had in life because girls aren't curious, Dr. Bethany. Remember that. Okay, go ahead, Carson. I did hear that.

No way. This is personal experience. I'm five years old. I run away from the house on a tricycle. I'm naked running around the damn neighborhood. Finally, someone finds me and brings me home. I mean, that's certainly possible that the child simply wandered off. But, of course, those individuals with the last connection with the child are the most likely suspects in general cases. Well, what do we know?

Jackie, can you find out about that? Because I bet somebody has suggested mom and dad take a poly. And again, let me remind everybody, it's not mommy and daddy's backyard that's being dug up right now. It's a neighbor down the street, a female neighbor down the street. Nancy, if I could jump in just for a moment. Remember the case we covered about four years ago? There was a family, the back of the house backed up to like a national forest. And the mother turned her head for a moment. And the little boy, I think he was three or four and he was on the spectrum of

autism and he wandered out into the forest. And he was just like Dale Carson said, you know, a little boy, curious. And I think that what would be very important in this case is to look at the culture of that neighborhood and the culture of the family. Was it common for children to gather in the streets or to go door to door or to like want to play with each other without parental supervision? Because in some neighborhoods that does happen. Although five years old is awfully little

just to go out into the streets without supervision. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Anybody jump in on this. Once the dad changes the diapy of the little sister, does he not notice the child is missing? I mean, it doesn't take an hour to change a diaper. Max, Jack, jump in. You've changed plenty of diapers. I would say max 10 minutes. For a dad that may not always change diapers, maybe 15 minutes. But what if he suddenly had to bathe the little girl? But nothing over 30 minutes. So why was the alarm not raised?

Anyone on the panel, how quickly did dad call 911? That's a question. In the meantime, take a listen to our friends at Idaho News 6. The search for a missing Treasure Valley boy escalates as it goes into a second day. Police officers in Fruitland need the community's help in locating that little boy. Five-year-old Michael Joseph Vaughn is considered endangered and was last seen at his home near Southwest 9th and Arizona in Fruitland. It was around 6 30 Tuesday evening and search efforts have they began immediately to find him with teams walking through nearby neighborhoods searching by air with drones and even a helicopter.

The Idaho Mountain Search and Rescue Team brought their search dog to help with the effort. Vaughn is about three and a half feet tall. He has blonde hair and blue eyes. He also goes by the nickname Monkey. And what do we know about the actual search? Take a listen to our Chief J.D. Huff. Today, the Fruitland Police Department, in conjunction with the state police, multiple Treasure Valley law enforcement agencies, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, we continue to search for missing and endangered five-year-old Michael Joseph Vaughn, MJ, to his family and friends. Michael was last seen near his residence on Southwest 9th Street in Fruitland at approximately 6 30 p.m. on July 27th, 2021. Operations to date include the methodical search

of the area near Michael's residence, which included two irrigation runoff ditches, which were drained by the Fruitland Public Works Department in an extensive search and rescue effort, including the use of canines, aerial and marine and land support. Idaho Fish and Game officers are continuing to search the river by boat for four to five miles down river and back up and in the sloughs of the Snake River as well. Another thing that police have let slip is that this is really no longer a search for a live tot boy. They're no longer looking for a live five-year-old Michael Vaughn because they stated they have reason to believe more people know about the abduction and death of this little boy. Who? Who are they talking about?

Who knows more than they're telling about the kidnap and murder of a five-year-old little boy allegedly wandering the neighborhood looking for somebody to play with? Well, what are police saying about Michael Vaughn's family? What do we know about that? To Sydney Sumner, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what, if anything, are they saying? Police have actually said that the parents are cooperating much more. Tyler and Brandy are Michael's parents, and they are both being extremely cooperative with the investigation and seem to just want their son home. Interesting. Interesting because you know Dale Carson high profile lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville a lot of times the family is not entirely

cooperative. All right. Remember in the JonBenet Ramsey case, at a certain point, the family stopped talking to police without a lawyer. Go ahead. That's our first clue, is that when people are not cooperative, there's a reason that they're not cooperative, particularly in a situation where you have a child without yours that's missing. According to what the dad told police at the time, he was out of Michael's sight for 10 to 15 minutes. What does that mean in the real world, Robert Crispin, that the boy had to leave the home and get kidnapped in 15 minutes? How far could he have gotten on foot in 15 minutes? I mean, clearly gives him the window to get out if dad's distracted.

He doesn't really have to go that far. These kids get abducted right off their front lawn sometimes. You're right. That is exactly what happened in the case of Samantha Runyon with her grandmother looking through the window at her playing with other children in the front yard. And a guy pulls up in a car, grabs Samantha, who is two or three years old at the time, and leaves.

And within a couple hours, she's been raped and murdered. I just have a huge issue with, and correct me if I'm wrong, but he starts to look. But then doesn't he call the mother rather than 911 first? Yes, you're right about that. Guys, take a listen now to News Channel 7. Huff says that it has been a thorough search. They have looked at 200 homes. They have interviewed the residents. They have drained a septic tank. They have drained nearby canals. That search is up to 3,000 acres. Huff also says they've looked at 29 miles along

the riverbank and Huff added there are 60 different security camera footage tapes they need to look through. They are continuing to look through and 163 tips. They continue to ask people to come forward with any information. Huff is making it clear the department is committed to this search. It's my childhood neighborhood. That's where I spent my childhood years. My children are growing up here, and my law enforcement partners are mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, and friends of children that are just like Michael. So you need to believe me when I tell you that we are all in. You know, I'm comparing Joe Scott Morgan to the Kelly Anthony case, better known as Tot Mom Casey Anthony Case, the killer. But a huge search was conducted to find Kelly when she was about 10 houses down from the Anthony home the entire time.

And you just heard our friends at News Channel 7 talking about the thousands of acres that had been searched by land, by air, searching in the water, hundreds of tips. But now they're digging within a half a mile right there in the neighborhood. They're digging up a woman's backyard. Yeah, that goes to specific information. You know, why would you initiate that as a law enforcement organization, you know, to put those resources toward that specific area? It's not like it's a wide swath. You're talking about a location that approximates where this child was last seen.

And they're going to great efforts. And trust me, you know, you got to think they know that the media is going to be watching them as they're doing this. So they're really sticking their neck out on this. Why would you go this deep into this? Literally, you're talking about a depth here of three to four feet. That's pretty deep. We refer to that as layering through the strata of the of the of the backyard of this place. They're looking for disturbed soil that's back there. They would

have to have a targeted area to go into to see if the soil has been displaced in any way whatsoever. But now it sounds like they're just kind of going through the entire backyard. So again, from an investigative standpoint, that's very, very specific, Nance. It's wrong because when you look for a body buried in the soil you want to layer it out very specifically so you can find evidence that might indicate who buried the child and so to go into a backyard and simply take it all and put it in a dumpster is not the way it's supposed to be done yes it's kind of it's kind of non-scientific. You're not being very methodical about it. And again, you have to measure what's being said at this point in time.

Also, we don't know exactly what they did. They could have done the ground-penetrating sonar and looked and then start taking the dirt. Yes, I would agree. It should have been dirt taken in specific samples. We don't know that they didn't do that. Here's the other point. Here's the other point. It's been a year.

There's been no progress whatsoever in responding to the case from a criminal perspective. What do we know? And why are police digging in this woman's backyard? Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Fruitland police have fielded more than 1,500 leads and tips since Michael Vaughn disappeared and one of those tips considered credible leads investigators to the home of Casey and Sandra Wondra. The Wondras are neighbors of the Vaughns living just four minutes from where Michael Vaughn went missing. The tipster says

Michael's remains may be behind the home. Sandra Wondra has posted TikTok videos where Vaughn went missing. The tipster says Michael's remains may be behind the home. Sandra Wander has posted TikTok videos where Vaughn's missing poster can be seen hanging on her refrigerator. Police are conducting an extensive search of the property using excavating equipment and two cadaver dogs in their investigation. Fruitland Police Chief J.D. Huff says the intent is to dig three or four feet deep. Crews place what has been dug up in dumpsters. Huff says crews will not stop until the entire backyard is excavated. Joe Carson, what were you saying about this woman? Well, look, she has made a confession, but there's no... I don't know that I would call that a confession.

What exactly did she say? She said, God on high told me that my husband killed the child and buried him out back near a shed. But interestingly, we don't see the husband arrested. Well, because she's not right mentally. I don't know about that. And so they have to charge her with something. Well, I mean, she's in analysis right now. I mean, she's in analysis right now i mean she's in therapy right now to determine whether she's competent to stand trial dill carson you know the game better than anybody putting someone uh having someone analyzed or tested for mental defect does not mean that they have a mental defect look at uh laurie valid they've been analyzing her for a couple of years now and now they've decided she's fit to stand trial. I mean, defense attorneys always, as a last resort, argue they're mentally

unfit. Now, sometimes you actually do have a mentally unfit defendant, but that's just a card that's always thrown out by the defense when they don't know what to do. They declare mental incompetence. But when you say she gave a confession, what she did was that she said she had a vision from heaven that her husband was the killer and had buried the baby in the backyard. What more do we know? Take a listen to our friend Abby Davis, KTVB. A grieving community reeling from the disappearance of the five-year-old Michael Vaughn last July, now potentially one step closer to finding closure. We are all very emotionally tied to this case, just as our community is. I would say probably the country. Frueland Police Chief J.D. Huff spoke with us Sunday afternoon about a credible tip he says led authorities and rescue crews to dig up the backyard of a house in connection with Michael's

death. Huff said on Monday that credible tip came from someone inside of the house. We received a search warrant and we started excavating the backyard of this residence due to the fact that there's potential for Michael's remains to be in this backyard. Straight out to well-known private investigator Robert Crispin. What do you make of that? They got a serious credible tip because you hear how these cases have 1,500 tips came in, but how how many times you hear a credible tip came in? Let's talk about a credible tip. What is that? That's something that can be independently verified by law enforcement that they're going to run with. And I believe that this is probably why the affidavit is still sealed, because I think they're onto something. And I think that credible

tip from the person that came inside from that inside that house is not the lady who was arrested. Well, that's my concern. They say the tip came from inside the house. Is that her? I mean, is she the one that made the tip? I don't think so. I honestly don't think so. And if they think that she's mentally crazy, then they should have had her Baker acted.

You know, why do we have an arrest? We have a very specific arrest with a very specific crime so i mean if we she's confessed to doing that crime no she hasn't don't don't say that she did not confess that she did the crime she said she had a vision that her husband did it and buried the body in the backyard. I mean, that is not a confession. But she didn't report it. That's the crime she's charged with, failure to report a death. I know that.

That's a later down the road charge. That's what she's charged with right now. She's being held on failure to report a death. That $500,000 bond. Yeah. Does that mean she's the one that committed the crime? Not necessarily. And that's the hang-up right here guys take a listen again to abby davis kt vb chief huff told me they finished processing the yard and house that sarah wandra lived in wandra had has

been charged with failure to report a death but her status conference was reset rescheduled to december 23rd because a judge ruled that she is mentally unfit to assist in her own defense and she needs treatment just to clarify wandra was the person who lived in the house that they have been digging up the backyard and searching the house for so huff told me that they're not quite sure that he said that they're looking to provide more information about what actually came out of that search another thing I would be interested in is whether the husband that she's pointing the finger at, whether he also lives with her or is he long gone. Because we don't see him implicated in any way.

This after 1,500 tips in the search for five-year-old Michael Vaughn. Now, we also understand that she is about a half a mile from where Vaughn, Vaughn's father, said he last saw the boy. What do you make of that, Joe Scott Morgan? This is basically right under the family's nose. Yeah, it is. But, you know, for all we know, she's whipped up into a frenzy, you know, emotionally. And, you know, she thinks she's vested in this. She thinks that she's a junior investigator. And suddenly she starts getting visions from God where she's telling them that God told them that her husband, whatever his status is at this point in time, killed this poor baby and buried him in their backyard. You know, how does she not have an awareness of this already it took god it took god on high to give her this message that her

backyard had been dug up and a little boy's remains had been placed there i'm just not on that joe scott morgan is absolutely correct and i'll put clinical language to it she's what four minutes from the family home she She has the flyer on her refrigerator. Perhaps she has what we call involutional psychosis, meaning she goes in and out of psychotic states. Because the language, I got a vision from on high, has kind of a psychotic quality to it. Joe Scott Morgan said she was whipped up into a frenzy. Absolutely. People who are psychotic will incorporate into their psychotic episodes whatever the heck is going on around them.

And what's going on around her? A little boy's been missing for the last year. What's going to get incorporated into her psychosis? The fact that her husband killed him. Why? Who knows? Maybe she's mad at him that day. Maybe he threw his dental floss on the counter and she's pissed off at him because he didn't put it in the trash.

And, you know, she incorporates this anger into a psychotic episode. Psychotic people do this all the time. But another thing we know about missing children, psychosis and all of that is usually the body is found within less than a third of the mile from the family home. Right. We've covered these cases again and again. Stereotypical abduction where a stranger takes the child, transports them overnight more than 24 hours away or to another state is less than 1%.

Look at Kaylee Anthony. Everybody searched and searched and searched. Where was she? Near the house. So it's always in close proximity to the house, almost always. But I would say that most certainly this woman has some kind of a, I don't use the word mental illness. I would say loss of contact with reality and people like that become very preoccupied. What about the phenomena of people that just want desperately to be involved in a case.

Now, earlier I was talking about the husband. I do know that the husband, Stacy Wanda, does share the home with her. So that leaves me the choice of her or him that called in this tip. I'd be willing to put money on it, Joe Scott Morgan, that it was her. Fruitland literally sits, literally sits immediately adjacent to a major interstate highway. If there's a predator out there, they could be in that neighborhood and back on, I think it's I-84, headed toward Portland and headed up the western seaboard into Canada, if they so wish, in the blink of an eye. And no one would be any of the wiser at that point in time. If you just take a look at this place on the map, that's one of the things I'm thinking about. This child, this child to some

predator out there has much more value alive than he does deceased. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace We know that this woman appears in court, Sarah Wondra, charged with failure to report a death. When cops came to effect the search warrant and the arrest, she was standing there in her living room, not trying to get away. Although she has pointed the finger at her husband, who was the main player in her heavenly vision, he has not been arrested.

Stacey Wondra has not been arrested. She's age 35. Apparently, we haven't heard anything about children living in the home. What does that mean? That this five-year-old boy goes missing in her neighborhood, and now she's had a heavenly vision. Did she take the boy and kill the boy? Did she want to have a child?

Did she never have children? All questions to be answered by a shrink. I think I hear you, Dale Carson, jump in. Yeah, yeah. She has no children. She may have wanted that child for her own purposes. But it's all unlikely because certainly in digging up the backyards they have, if that were true, they would already have found adipose fat, some sort of evidence of the child.

You're right. And not only did they dig it up, Dale Carson, they also brought out cadaver dogs. And to you, Joe Scott Morgan, or to you, Robert Crispin, wouldn't cadaver dogs have hit on that earth where the body was buried? I think absolutely, of course. Sure. Yeah, and not just that. Even further, I think one point was made by Bethany earlier, Nancy. Any kind of clothing this child would have had on, if the child, assuming that the child would have been still clothed when buried, if there's any synthetic blends in there, this clothing is not going to degrade to any great degree. You would see evidence of that and it would it would really pop out against that you could see it with the unaided

eye essentially you know once you stuck the spade to show a spade of dirt at that point time started turning the dirt you would see it it would be there and not to mention the remains that had been left behind but what about this the specificity in her statement when cops questioned her, they said, where in the backyard? And she pointed to two places, and one of them was the backyard by a shed. She was very specific. Now, when you have specificity in a statement

that lends to its credibility, it makes it more believable. But let me also point out, she pointed to a spot near the entry of her residence. Psychotic people can be very, very specific depending on the nature of the psychotic episode they're having. So let's say she's obsessed with this case. The family lives four minutes down the road. She has the flyer on her refrigerator. She has an empty life, probably doesn't work or have much of a life. If she has a severe mental illness, she's trapped in the home all the time. What is she going to do? She's going to think and think and think about this case. Pretty soon she has a whole psychotic delusion about it.

I'm just guessing just based upon what I know about mental illness. And pretty soon she decides in her own mind where the body is and she calls the police. And, you know, this may be the biggest happening in her life this past year, that she was able to call the police, that she was able to share her psychotic episode with other people. Well, now she's sharing it with a cellmate. Guys, take a listen now to our cut 30. This is Joe Martin from KMTV. A hearing took place today for a woman arrested in connection with the disappearance of five-year-old Michael Vaughn. Sarah Wondra is charged with failing to report a death to the coroner. Her next appearance is scheduled for December 23rd after the court holds a competency check. Six-year-old Michael Vaughn has been missing for over a year.

Police in Fruitland spent most of last week digging in the backyard at the house where Wondra lives. But they haven't released any new information on what, if anything, has been found so far. That from our friends at KMVT. We also know police are asking for help. They're asking for help identifying a white vehicle. They believe to be a white Honda Pilot year 2016 to 2020 that was spotted around Southwest 8th Street, 647 p.m. on July 27. They're looking for the driver of that, and they're also looking for a blue Dodge Avenger. Now, why?

Any car could have driven through that neighborhood. What would it be about those two cars that have piqued their interest? You were just hearing from our friends at KMVT. Now, take a listen to this. The Vaughn family has no connection to anyone that has lived inside the home that is currently being searched. But they do live just a few minutes away and their street is completely blocked off and police say that is to protect them during this investigation since michael has gone to missing the entire town of fruitland still

has signs posted looking for michael and the community wants answers i find that critical let me throw that out to you, Robert Crispin. They're making it clear that this woman, Sarah Wandra, now under arrest for failure to report a death, had no connection to the Vaughn family. Why is that important? Well, it could be for a number of reasons to disconnect and do two separate investigations. And this is a great example of why law enforcement never releases the cause of death on a pending homicide. Just for this exact reason, they'll say that they have a homicide, but they won't say the cause of the homicide, a stabbing, a shooting, a strangulation, a decapitation. And why? Because you have people like this, I'm not saying she's guilty or not, but will come forward and they will say that I killed that

little boy. Okay, well, as an investigator, walk me through how you did it. Well, yeah, I abducted him and I pulled him and I strangled him and then I shot him in the head. And then the next thing you know, when we unearth the child, we find out that the child drowned. It's a completely different cause of death. But if somebody hears on TV, like out in Idaho with these four girls, which is just beyond me, how they release the cause of death being a stabbing. I mean, if somebody gets taken into custody and they're a suspect in any homicide, only the person who committed the homicide is going to know the facts of the crime scene. And the medical... All police departments, this is always a problem because everybody knows

everybody else and everybody loves a secret. Listen, Nancy, I had a guy confess to a crime to me who didn't do it. And he confessed to everything that was on TV. And I dissected his statement and it was everything that was released. And this is exactly why law enforcement stays tight-lipped. Well, I had it happen to my best friend in the DA's office. He prosecuted a person for a murder based on a confession. And the person matched the description. About a year later, it turns out the killer was wearing a wig and the real killer was apprehended.

Thankfully, a very brief time went by based on a false confession. Is that what we have here? Take a listen to our cut 28, Abby Davis, KTVB. Police arrested 35-year-old Sarah Wandra over the weekend who lived in the house being searched. She's charged with failure to report a death. Wandra appeared via Zoom for an arraignment Monday afternoon in Payette County. It is alleged that you did honor about the 12th day of November of this year here in the state of Idaho fail to notify the coroner of a death, the death of Michael Vaughn, with the intent to prevent the discovery of the manner of death. That is a felony here in the state of Idaho. Do you understand the allegation that's been made against you? I understand what

they've said is not correct. As you hear her state in court, I understand what you're saying, but it's not correct. And in the last hours, a critical police presser, the home search has been completed. During that excavation process, the Idaho Mountain Search and Rescue Mountain States Detection Dogs deployed multiple certified human remains detection dogs on the property, all of them alerting to the presence of human remains. Ground penetrating radar was also used and deployed detecting anomalies in the backyard. We completed the excavation of the entire backyard and removed over 250 yards of dirt. Prior to backfilling the yard, the dirt was meticulously sifted for any potential human remains.

We did not find Michael's remains. Although the remains of Michael Vaughn were not recovered, we strongly believe, based on evidence, that Michael was abducted and is deceased, and that his remains were buried and later moved from the property. As of today, the whereabouts of his remains are unknown. Take a listen to our friends at KTVB. Sarah and her husband, Stacy, both lived in the home that Cruz excavated and searched. This is Stacy Wondra. Once again, they are a married couple. He is currently in the Washington County Jail on unrelated charges. So we already knew that the Wondras lived in the home being excavated. What we didn't know and what Huff told us was that these two other men, they believe

also had some sort of knowledge about what happened to Michael. They are not in the state of Idaho right now. They believe they are in other states right now. One of them was actually visiting the Wondras at that house and the other one actually lived with the Wondras. This is Brandon Shurtleff, 30 years old of Cuna, Idaho. Brandon was living with Sarah and St and Stacy Wandra at 1102 Red Wing Street at the time of Michael's disappearance, and we believe Brandon has firsthand knowledge of Michael's abduction. Brandon is currently believed to be in North Dakota. Adrian Lucien, 32-year-old male out of Toledo, Ohio. Adrian was staying with Sarah and Stacy Wanderer at 1102 Red Wing Street

at the time of Michael's disappearance. And we believe that Adrian has firsthand knowledge of Michael's abduction. Adrian's currently believed to be in Toledo, but floats between Ohio and California. So once again, they believe that these four people have some sort of knowledge about what happened to Michael. Tip line 208-343-COPS. 208-343-2677.

We have not forgotten the kidnap and murder of five-year-old Michael Vaughn. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.