Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NEW CLUES In San Antonio Mystery Of Tot Boy’s Disappearance: Where Is Baby Gabriel?

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

Elizabeth Johnson gives birth to a boy on May 3. She and Logan McQueary name him Gabriel. Logan says Johnson has trouble adjusting to motherhood. When Gabriel cries, Johnson sometimes puts him in a room by himself so she does not have to hear him. After a heated argument with Logan in June over her parenting, Johnson flies to Boston with Gabriel to visit her grandmother. Returning to Arizona in August, she meets Tammi Peters Smith during an airport layover in Indianapolis. Johnson, crying and holding Gabriel, attracts Smith’s attention, leading to a conversation about Smith and her husband adopting the baby. Johnson returns to Arizona without Gabriel. The baby is later found safe at the Peters Smith residence. After Gabriel’s return to Arizona, a family court judge grants joint custody to Johnson and Logan, with Johnson having Gabriel first. Three days later, when Logan tries to pick him up, Johnson tells him he will never see his son again. Johnson initially claims she smothered Gabriel and dumped his body, but Logan does not believe her. Police confirm Johnson drove with Gabriel from Tempe to San Antonio, Texas, and was last seen with him nine days later. The next morning, she boards a Greyhound bus to Miami alone. She later tells officers she gave Gabriel to a couple at a park near their hotel. Despite extensive searches and investigations, Gabriel, who would now be 15, has never been found. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Logan McQueary - Father of missing Gabriel Johnson Sandy Peters - Great Aunt of missing Gabriel Johnson Tim Maloney - Logan McQueary’s Lawyer, Law Offices of Maloney & Campolo;@MaloneyCampolo (X, FB) Caryn Stark - Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; @carynpsych (Insta), Caryn Stark Private Practice (FB) Abel Peña - Former FBI Agent, Director of Project Absentis [a nonprofit organization with a mission to offer investigative assistance to families of missing persons]; Project Absentis (FB, TikTok, Linkedin) Yami Virgin - Anchor / Reporter at KABB and WOAI in San Antonio; Facebook: @yamivirgintv (FB) @Yami_Virgin (Insta)  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. New clues in the San Antonio mystery of a taut boy's disappearance. Where is baby Gabriel? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Childhood friends Elizabeth and Logan have

kindled a romantic relationship and welcomed a baby boy by the name of Gabriel in Arizona. But the happy family is troubled by Elizabeth and Logan's strained and rocky relationship, which soon leads to disaster. Tonight, where is baby Gabriel? Has mommy sold the tot boy? Everyone, thank you for being with us. But first, straight out to the bio dad. Logan McQuarrie is joining us, the father of baby Gabriel. You and the mom had a very, very tumultuous relationship. Where do you believe baby Gabriel is tonight? Couldn't tell you. Just hope he's out there and he's doing good wherever he's at.

How did the whole thing start? Listen. Elizabeth graduates from a college preparatory high school in Boston near her grandmother with a 4.0 GPA and a full-ride scholarship to Southeastern University in New Hampshire. Elizabeth Johnson's grandfather, Robert Johnson of Scottsdale, Arizona, says two weeks into her first semester at Southeastern University, Elizabeth drops out because she doesn't like her roommate. Johnson says his granddaughter is impulsive, prone to fits of rage, and secretive. As a teen, when she was living with her grandmother in Boston, Elizabeth flew from Boston to California to sell her reproductive eggs for cash to someone she contacted online. I know that she sold her eggs for cash when she was a very, very young woman, still actually a teen. But does that indicate in any way that she would have sold baby Gabriel as she now admits that she did? Let's start at the beginning. Joining me,

an all-star panel to make sense of where is baby Gabriel tonight and can we bring him home? Let me give you the tip line 210-207-7660. Repeat 210-207-7660 or the FBI 210-225-6741. We're convinced if baby Gabriel is alive, he has been taken across state lines. You know, I want to go quickly out to, we're now a psychologist joining us from Manhattan today, Karen Stark. Karen, very often she actually tried to give the baby away. She tried to sell the baby. We know that she has an MO, modus operandi, method of operation, dating back to her teen years when she sold her eggs for money, right? Not judging.

I'm just trying to find baby Gabriel. What does this indicate to you, Karen Stark? It indicates that she doesn't see this baby as a real human being separate from her. It's like a narcissistic attachment, Nancy, where this baby is an extension and she could do whatever she wants, like sell her eggs or sell the baby. And so you wonder the psychological state that she actually is in, just the fact that she's so impulsive and keeps remarrying over and over again, using people manipulative, and she's smart. She's really smart. So she was able to get away with this. And it's just confounding that all this time has passed and this woman is not really revealing

what happened to this child, who has this child, if the child is alive. She doesn't care. Did mommy sell her top boy, Gabriel? Back to Gabriel's dad, Logan McQuarrie, by all accounts, a very loving and attentive dad to Gabriel. Isn't it true that quite often she would lash out at you and use baby Gabriel as leverage? Yes, she would several times. Like what? If he was crying too much or anything like that, she would just say, shut him up. And she would get really mad.

If I wanted to do something, she wouldn't let me. And so I had to stay home and take care of him. Guys, you're seeing shots of baby Gabriel. Now, this is how the whole thing started. Listen. Elizabeth Johnson gives birth to a boy on May 3rd and she and Logan McCreary name him Gabriel. At times when the baby is crying, Elizabeth places baby Gabriel in a room by himself and goes to a different room so she doesn't have to hear him crying. With Gabriel crying, Logan asks Elizabeth what she's been doing. She replies for him to, quote, deal with rather than like we expect moms to do, right or wrong, to love the baby, to be attached to the baby, baby heart, mind and soul. She did not have that attachment to baby Gabriel at all. No, it was more like he was a thorn on her hip.

She didn't really want to do the things that she needed to do to take care of him. She just didn't want him around. Was the pregnancy intentional or was it an accident? It definitely was an accident. We didn't plan on getting pregnant. We talked about back and forth if we wanted to keep it. Ultimately, it was her decision. And she said that she wanted to keep them.

What happened afterwards was not what I was expecting. When did you first notice, Logan, that she seemed disconnected to baby Gabriel? Once we got home from the hospital and she just didn't want to get up and feed him or do anything, I just kind of took over and I had to go to work too. But whenever I was home, I was helping her out with whatever I could and let her just kind of lay in bed. Just don't know how to explain it. Leaving for work in the morning and Gabriel would be in his crib and then coming home and he would be in the same clothes, diaper, everything. And it's like she didn't get up and take care of him at all. Joining me is Tim Maloney. This is Logan's attorney. You guys have been through it trying to find Gabriel, baby Gabriel.

What do you make of what Logan is telling us that the baby would still be in the crib where the baby was when Logan went to work, when he would get home? Well, Nancy, I think it's indicative of he's got a very troubled young woman. And I think ultimately what played out was the fact that she just couldn't bomb with this child. And we have this kind of narcissistic tendencies that she was clearly demonstrating that it was just a matter of time before disaster was going to happen. The saddest part of this whole thing, besides the obvious, is that I think a lot of these answers could have been had at the beginning of this investigation, that there was some competent work done by the police departments in the various jurisdictions. You have Yami on with you today. She and I have been really with this story from the very beginning, and we have done probably as much investigation along with Abel than any police department looking for Gabriel. And the sad part is really is that there were so many clues early on that could have given Logan answers.

That's what we promised him was to just give him some answers. And to this day, that's what we'd still like to do for him. The hope and dream is that Gabriel's still out there. We've had some recent events of children who've been disappeared for many years who have materialized. And that is the hope. But really, one of the saddest things I think about this is the fact that there are so many clues, so many things that could have been done early on in the investigation that could have gotten answers. You are seeing shots right now of baby Gabriel and you're hearing Tim Maloney. This is the dad, Logan McQuarrie's lawyer who was joined in the search to find baby Gabriel.

Is baby Gabriel out there? Did mommy give him away? As she said, she did. Did she sell him? Would this be just another incident of her disassociation with her baby, treating him like he's an object to be sold or given away.

You heard Tim Maloney refer to Yami Virahim joining us, anchor reporter KABB Fox 29 in San Antonio. Yami, thank you for being with us. Tell us how the whole thing started. It started New Year's Day, you know, photographer and myself sitting in the newsroom when we got that fax that came in saying that they were looking for a missing child out of Arizona and that they believe he may have been near the Fiesta, Texas area, which is I-10, runs from the East Coast to the West Coast.

And there's a park there. So we decided to go out and start looking. And I mean, I don't even have the words to explain to you how massively law enforcement has dropped the ball. And I'm going to say it for the family, because they've been more than fair. Law enforcement has dropped the ball on this case. It is two different jurisdictions. All we've heard is it's not our case. That case belongs to Tempe. Tempe, that case belongs to San Antonio. I mean, we even did a report where Aunt Sandy called asking about the case and missing persons in San Antonio told her, oh, that's not our case. That's a Tempe case. This may be part of the reason why they have no idea what happened to Gabriel. Aunt Sandy, as Yami just referred, is with us. Sandy Peters is the aunt of baby Gabriel.

Sandy, take me back to the beginning. What happened? Logan had called me the 1st of December and told me that things were going bad. He was trying to get partial custody of Gabriel and Elizabeth was fighting. And he called and said that he thought Elizabeth was going to take Gabriel and run, and he would never see Gabriel again. I couldn't fathom that that would really happen. I'd known Elizabeth through the last year and a half or maybe two years, I a year and a half. And I knew she was reluctant to have a child, but I also knew

that she was very against having an abortion. And she made it sound like she was going to try to make this work. So when Logan called me and said that, that he thought she was going to run with Gabriel, and he'd never see Gabriel again, I told him that that just wasn was going to run with Gabriel and he'd never see Gabriel again. I told him that that just wasn't going to happen, to hang in there and we'd get it figured out. And within a couple of days, she was gone. We weren't aware of the relationship that Elizabeth had, that she had somebody who she was thinking that she wanted to get Gabriel to. She had met

this Tammy and Jack in an airport. They appeared to have a lot of money. They had offered her some kind of a deal because they were interested in adopting Gabriel and getting Gabriel. Guys, you are hearing Gabriel's aunt. Also with us is BioDad, a very loving and supportive father. Joining me now, special guest, Abel Pena, the director for Project Absentist, composed of former members of FBI and federal agencies to find missing children. They're FBI agents of 26 years experience. Abel, thank you for being with us.

So with the dad, the bio dad, the legal father of the baby, she was looking up people to give the baby to, and she meets them at an airport, a couple she's never seen in her life and decides to give the baby to them. Yeah, that's our understanding is that she she made efforts to give the baby away. We've undertaken just a lot of efforts to interview witnesses, friends, acquaintances, family members to try and get answers for the family. And it's just been very difficult. We've gotten various answers from different people about what happened to Gabriel. We have the story that, you know, Elizabeth met strangers in a park and gave Gabriel away here in San Antonio.

There's also other stories circulating that Elizabeth did harm to Gabriel. So at this point, we're still searching for answers for the family. We're still talking to people. We've traveled to Arizona a few times and met with additional witnesses that we believe are helpful. And we're going to continue searching and talking to people until we get the answers. Logan McQueary and Elizabeth Johnson argue often over her treatment of baby Gabriel. After an extremely heated argument in June, Elizabeth flies to Boston with Gabriel to visit her grandmother. Returning to Arizona in August, Johnson meets Tammy Peter Smith during an airport layover in Indianapolis, Indiana,

and Smith initiates a conversation that leads to a discussion about Smith and her husband adopting Gabriel. Baby Lisa Irwin vanishes from her crib in the middle of the night. Then a key witness sees a suspicious man that night carrying a baby. This potential suspect has never been interviewed before, but Megyn Kelly tracks him down. Megyn Kelly Investigates is a five-part series releasing every weekday beginning Monday, March 10. Available on YouTube, SiriusXM, and wherever you listen to the Megyn Kelly Show podcast. Click the link in the description of this episode for more. Arizona mom Elizabeth Johnson wants to put her month-old son Gabriel up for adoption and believes she may have found the right couple at an airport. But Father Logan strongly disagrees and a heated custody battle ensues.

Give the baby to a couple you meet at the airport. Let me understand. Yemi Virheim with us, K-A-B-B. He's been on the story from the very beginning. That's been confirmed, right? We know that mom wanted to give the baby away. Probably, I would say, taking a fee, I guess, from a couple she just meets at the airport. That's been confirmed, correct? That's been confirmed. And Nancy, actually, I'm going to take you back a little bit.

You interviewed Tammy and Jack Smith when this first happened. They went on air with you and they were talking about them trying to help to find Elizabeth. And pretty much we found them on MySpace. Back then it was MySpace. There was no Facebook. So when we found them, we started sending messages and getting information from them. And they told us that, yes, he had traveled to San Antonio, that they were trying to find her, that they wanted to get them back, that they basically had wanted to adopt him, that they were just trying to get her back to Tempe and get the baby back to Logan. Because at that point, it was custodial interference since Logan was supposed to have the baby back. Back to Abel Pena joining us from Project Absentis. Abel, I know in your line of business, you know what MO, Motorcycle Prandi method of operation means. And with

practically every criminal I took to trial, there was a precursor. You could see a pattern emerging before the ultimate crime. And here we see her all the way back to her teen years when she was selling her eggs. She had no intention of ever having children, not judging, don't care. I just want to find baby Gabriel. And then it goes on from there. It graduates to her trying to give away the baby to strangers in an airport, which leads me to think that is what she did again. Well, I have had conversations with Tammy Smith, lengthy conversations with her. And at that time, she was somewhere in Africa. She's back, actually, back in the United States.

I believe she's living in Arizona again. But I came to the conclusion that, you know, Gabriel, that Tammy did not have custody of Gabriel over there in Africa. I don't believe Tammy, I think Tammy and Jack wanted Gabriel. I think they were making efforts to get Gabriel, but for some reason, things just didn't materialize, and Elizabeth had maybe

some other ideas about what she was going to do with Gabriel, but things, I don't believe, happened that way that Tammy and Jack wanted, and I happened that way that Tammy and Jack wanted. And I do not believe that Tammy and Jack ever took custody of Gabriel. Guys, where is baby Gabriel? What does that mean? What does that mean probatively to Tim Maloney, the dad, Logan McQuarrie's lawyer? I've argued this a million times to jury. When you don't know what

someone is going to do, you look at what they've already done. This wasn't the first time she tried to give the baby away. The thing about it is her pattern of history is so erratic that, and also, you do understand, you know, what the audience loves to stand, that she did, in effect, confess to the murder itself and then recanted. And, you know, that's to stand that she did, in effect, confess to the murderer itself and then recanted. And, you know, that's where we're getting back to the issue of that night that, as you know, that critical 48 hours you have to really make a decision as to where the investigation is going to go. I think the current incident of baby Gabriel potentially being given away or sold goes back to something that happened on December 9. Listen. On December 9th, Johnson is arrested on suspicion of providing false information to law enforcement when she lies to authorities about where Gabriel is, telling Tempe,

Arizona police that McCrary kidnapped the baby. Gabriel is found at Tammy Smith's residence, but police let Gabriel stay after Smith shows police a document in which Johnson signed over temporary guardianship of Gabriel to Smith. Logan McQuarrie, baby Gabriel's dad, did you have any idea at the time that she was trying to give your baby away, even pretend somebody else was the bio dad? No, I didn't know that at all. Did you ever agree to putting your child up for adoption? No, there's no way I was going to. I told her I wanted to try to raise Gabriel on my own. If she didn't want to be a part of it, then that was up to her. Logan McQueary says he never supported giving up Gabriel for adoption and seeks custody of his son in family court, where a judge

awards joint legal custody of baby Gabriel to Johnson and McQueary on December 17th. On December 18th, the Smiths return Gabriel to Elizabeth Johnson. The judge orders McQueary to have physical custody of his son for a period beginning December 20th, but when McQueary calls Johnson to make arrangements to pick up his son, Johnson tells him he will never see his son again. When McQueary goes to Johnson's home, the place has been completely emptied. Against his dad's wishes, baby Gabriel is left in the care of an Arizona couple Mommy Elizabeth met while at an airport in Indianapolis. As Logan tries to gain custody of the child,

Elizabeth leaves a worrying message on Logan's phone. It seems as if this mom, Elizabeth, will do anything to strike out at the bio dad, Logan McQuarrie, who is joining us tonight. Police desperately try to put together a timeline. Putting together a timeline. Police determine after the custody hearing on December 17th, where Logan McQuarrie is granted shared physical custody of Gabriel, Johnson borrows her grandfather's 1995 Olds Delta 88, meets up with Tammy Smith, who had been taking care of Gabriel, and drives to San Antonio, Texas. Arriving on December 22, Elizabeth and Gabriel stay at the Quality Inn Fiesta Park, then move to the Homegate Studios and Suites. Hiring a babysitter on Craig's list to watch Gabriel at the hotel, Johnson instructs the sitter to give Gabriel a bottle about every hour,

and if he cries, give him medicine to shut him up. Logan McQuarrie, did you have any idea where she was at that time with baby Gabriel and hiring a babysitter online and telling the babysitter, hey, if he cries too much, just give him meds, So we'll quote, shut up. Did you have any idea any of this was going on? No, I had no clue at all. I mean, we were looking for the whole time, but just I wouldn't even imagine that was going on at the time. Logan, did she ever threaten to hurt baby Gabriel to get at you? One time he was bouncing in his chair and screaming and crying and she went over and kind of flicked the back of the chair and he flipped over on his face and I got really pissed off and told her she can't do that and she just yelled at me shut him up. So I'm trying to make

sense of what this woman Elizabeth Johnson did with baby Gabriel because she gave so many conflicting accounts. Every time she would speak to Logan McQuarrie, the bio dad, she'd give another painful explanation of where is baby Gabriel. But isn't it true to Abel Pena joining us, director of Project Absentis, who is dedicated to finding baby Gabriel, that her phone pinged where she says she handed the baby off to this couple at a park. Yes, there were pings in the area. I know that police made efforts to try to locate the park. And I believe it was Wayne and Rinka's park that they here in San Antonio that they identified. They went out there. They checked for any kind of evidence, forensic evidence.

I believe they even combed the area for anything out there, just suggesting that she was out there. Again, she described what she did. She describes the park, I guess, too, describing the parking lot where she sat. So, I mean, we do know that she liked going out to the park. She could have visited that park at some point in time. There would have been pings that she was out there. Again, you know, we just don't know who she met, you know, what she did with Gabriel or where Gabriel was taken to after that. Listen. In San Antonio, investigators looking for baby Gabriel focus on the hotels where Johnson

stayed after arriving in town. Investigators did find Elizabeth Johnson's grandfather's car, the Delta 88 she drove from Arizona to Texas. It was discovered parked at the Motel 6 near Interstate 35, close to a bus stop. Inside the vehicle, investigators found a baby seat, but no visible signs of violence. And we learn more the story about a surreptitious adoption of sorts. This story involves underground adoption of children and that she met a couple in a park in San Antonio who took Gabriel. And that's the story she's still sticking with today.

When investigators talked to her, she was able to describe the park in San Antonio who took Gabriel, and that's the story she's still sticking with today. When investigators talked to her, she was able to describe the park in San Antonio, including the parking lot that would hold about 20 cars. Yami Virahim joining us, KABB. Tell me about her description of that parking lot and what she says happened there. It was actually in her journal, the directions how to get there. Like when someone calls you and you're writing down directions, that was inside the journal that the FBI has. So she had directions on how to get there. And once she got there, she described it in these recordings that you're playing exactly what she did, that the baby was sitting in the car seat,

that she went to the park and was waiting for the couple. But more interesting to me is the fact that we actually got to that hotel that she had been at before the police even got there. And we were able to talk to a clerk who described a couple that she had seen at the hotel talking to Elizabeth a few days before. Police tell me that, oh no, that's not true. I talked to the clerk. It was a young woman that was going to school here in San Antonio from the Rio Grande Valley, and she remembered specifically seeing Elizabeth with a couple. Now, again, Elizabeth claims that she gave the baby to a couple in the park, handed over the bag, handed over the baby.

And that was the last time that she saw him. That gives me hope. That gives me hope, Logan, that baby Gabriel is still alive and he's out there. He may not even know that his parents are not his bio parents. He may not know what Yemi Virheim is telling me corroborates what Elizabeth said. Yes. And that's why this whole time you could convince me either way. It's 50 5050 for me.

I want to believe he's out there and well, you know, we're searching for him and just hopefully we find him someday. I mean, we just we try to hold a faith and that he'll come home someday. Very often. And I think that Abel and Tim Maloney will agree with me that when you have a statement rich in detail by a witness, that it is more believable. I want you to listen to what else bio mom Elizabeth Johnson said. At the bench that you met this couple at? Where were they at a bench that was seated next to anything in particular? Was it a bench near a water fountain, a bench near a tree, or the jungle gym set?

I don't know. Okay. Anything else about this park that you can call it? And this is an important thing, so I want you to take a minute Anything else about this part that you can call it? And this is an important thing, so I want you to take a minute to relive that moment. It's a fast moment. Okay.

Well, I know it's a fast moment, but it's also a very crucial moment in your life. He's right. The investigator there is saying, yes, it was a fast moment, but it was a crucial moment. We all have those moments that stick with us forever, and they are just that, a moment. Not a minute, not an hour, a moment. Listen to what else she says. I looked over the whole park, and as soon as I started walking, I saw a couple sitting down on the bench. And I said, that was them. So I walked up and they said my name. So it was in the bench. Was the bench that you saw the couple in basically within your

vision pretty much as soon as you got to the park? No, I didn't see them there. I walked out of my car into the park and walked around and saw them after looking around. She says she walked into the park and was looking around for them, which tells me, Yami Virheem, that this was set up ahead of time. And I'm thinking back to what was in her journal. And those notes in her journal were contemporaneous to that time where she was writing out directions to get to this park. Now at the park, is it true there's a bench that has been described? Yes, there is a bench. There are picnic tables. There's an area for the kids to play. There's, I mean, it's a normal park. You do have to walk a little bit to get to some of those picnic tables and benches that are there. Now, again, if you look at her journal, it's there.

But even more important, if you look also, we have the log of calls between Jack Smith, Tammy Smith, Elizabeth, Logan. We were able to get all of that from the phone. And there's a flurry of activity going on. I mean, it's there. It is there if you look at the phone logs. And right before she went, who did she talk to? Again, it was in that journal. Now, do we believe that, you know, maybe it was set up and it never happened? That could be. Or it was set up and she did meet a couple in the park. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Karen Stark with me, renowned psychologist, TV, radio, trauma expert at karenstark.com.

That's Karen with a C if you were looking for her. Karen, this woman, Elizabeth Johnson, seems to manipulate everyone around her. And I could see this couple, Tammy and Jack, believing everything she said. She's very believable and believing that it was up to them to save baby Gabriel and helping her. Yomi Verheem believes that Jack, who would have been an adoptive dad, except bio dad was not adopting his son out. He wants the baby. He wants baby Gabriel. So with this flurry of phone calls between her, bio mom, and Jack trying to help her, that tends to give support to the story that she later told that she gave the baby away to the couple she met in this park. How is it narcissistic people can manipulate others so well?

Nancy, they're really so adept at being able to convince people. They're charming. They're smart. They're able to let you feel like, wow, I really need to help this person. And yet, if you hear her talking, you don't get any sense of attachment to this child. You have the twins. I mean, you love them. You care about them. This woman is all over the place trying to get rid of her baby like it's a doll, not a real person. And very convincing to people around her that they need help because they're worried that they probably have more connection to the baby than she ever did.

So it is plausible that this actually did happen. She wanted to get rid of him. She really wanted someone to take him. And people are always looking for babies, aren't they? Where is baby Gabriel? Did his mother actually give him away to a couple in a park? It would not have been the first time she tried to give him away or adopt him out without his dad having any idea what she was up to. Now, here's her description of the couple that took baby gabriel let me go back and begin with this with a couple

describe the man for me again this is this is something that's can be you know there's a crucial time and again middle-aged i know you know for me i just want to ask you what? Late 30s. Okay. I'm middle-aged. Yeah. Okay. To Abel Pena joining us, the director of Project Absentis on the search for baby Gabriel, what's the best description we have of the couple that she gave baby Gabriel to? Yeah, we don't have much of a description of that couple. I think she's very vague in the descriptions she gives. And I think really just the interview that was conducted, we've listened to the interview

that she had with police. And quite honestly, it's there needed to. There needed to be more open ended questions rather than there were kind of a lot of lead on questions. I mean, how many park benches are in a park? I mean, there's park benches in parks. There's playgrounds in parks. She could have described any park in the United States. I think there were. Didn't her phone ping in that area where the park was? It did ping there. She could have been at the park, but all this... And she could have certainly described Raymond Rinkus Park because the way she described it was Raymond Rinkus, but it's also a description of many parks here in San Antonio. Okay, let me understand something. To Yami Virhan, following up on what Abel is telling us,

I want to gather quickly, Marshall, what we know about that park. Her phone pinged at the park. She describes the park. She describes going in and looking around and finally seeing the couple. Another thing, in her journal, there are handwritten descriptions about how to get to the park. And not only that, an employee at that motel

describes seeing her speaking to a couple beforehand that resembles the description, we're given. Is all of that correct? Correct. A lot of those things do match up also with what the clerk said. And I'm telling you, I talked to that clerk. She gave the description.

She said where they were standing. The other thing that stands out about all of this, someone was with Elizabeth while she was here. That clerk told me that when she went to knock on the door to tell her that they had to move to the hotel room upstairs, that there was a man that answered that door. So who was the person that was with Elizabeth? There's many questions that have yet to be answered to the rest of the world. Maybe the police department in San Antonio knows more about it. But when I've asked the person who used to be the lead

investigator, who's now one of the deputy chiefs, oh no, that wasn't really anything. Well, I talked to the clerk before they did. I know what she told me. And this young woman had no reason to lie. She was actually quite scared to even talk to us. Then, and yet another effort to lash out at the bio dad, Logan McCreary, bio mom throws out the worst possibility. Even though Elizabeth Johnson told baby Gabriel's father she killed his son, many people believe she only said that to hurt Logan McCreary. At the time of her arrest, three days after leaving San Antonio by bus, she tells the FBI she gave the baby away.

She gave Elizabeth her diamond ring. It was about a $35,000 ring, her wedding ring. I wasn't there that day, but my granddaughter was at her house. And so she saw her give it away to Elizabeth. That was before the baby disappeared. So there was a money exchange. A $35,000 ring was given to Elizabeth Johnson just before baby Gabriel disappears. All of this supporting the theory that baby Gabriel was given away or sold by mommy. Yet, there's this. To Sandy Peters joining us, this is baby Gabriel's aunt. Sandy, I know when you and Logan hear that,

it's like a dagger in your heart. But what do you make of her reason for telling Logan she had killed the baby when all the evidence tends to point to the fact that she gave or sold the baby, gave away or sold baby Gabriel. When I first heard the recording of Elizabeth and her saying that she killed Gabriel, I believed her. And so, like you said, it was unbelievably emotional. However, I think, I think Elizabeth, she was very close to Logan and very jealous of Logan's relationship with Gabriel. And I believe that at the beginning, when Elizabeth told Logan that she killed the baby, she thought Logan would, she and Logan would be able to fix their relationship. Go back to what it used to be like. Gabriel wouldn't be with them anymore and things would be fine. She had no idea that Logan would

take this to the police and that it would go national and be the story that it ended up being. To Yami Virheim joining us, KABB, Fox 29, San Antonio, it wouldn't have been the first time that she lashed out at Logan, lying or even in her behavior, her physical behavior, just to get back at him, just to hurt him. So much of the evidence points to the fact that she sold her own baby. That may be the case. And there was a ring that was found in her possession. San Antonio Police Department downplayed it, said that wasn't worth anything.

But when we went back and looked at the records from Tempe, we were told that that ring was worth a certain amount of money. Now, we also had an adoption specialist that I had found independently, and she told us in San Antonio, San Antonio is known to be an area where children can be adopted out a little bit easier because of Texas laws, number one, and number two, that it is customary for the birth mom to get some sort of a quote unquote gift. So the gift cannot be money, but it could be a ring, it could be a car, it could be something. And that comes from the adoptive parents. So that's why we believe that that part of the story is also true, that something was given

to her in exchange for the baby. Did she give the baby for sure to a couple? We don't know. And I think that's part of the reason why Logan says 50-50. I'll be honest with you, I'm 50-50. To Logan McQueary, Logan, what is your message tonight in your attempt to find your baby? Just if anybody knows anything, come forward. The littlest thing could help. You know, we still want to believe that Gabriel's out there, and we just want to meet him, see how he's doing. Do you ever dream about Gabriel? Yeah, definitely. What do you dream?

Someday he'll be found and can meet my kids, meet my family. He has brothers and sisters that still wonder where he is and wonder if they're ever going to meet him. If you know, or even think you know, where is baby Gabriel? Please dial 210-207-7660. And now, we remember an American hero, Patrolman David Evans, San Antonio PD, shot and killed in the line of duty, 30 years with

LA law enforcement, leaving behind a grieving wife, Elizabeth, children Jennifer, Jeffrey, and Julie. American hero, Patrolman David Evans. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.