Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "NEW DIDDIES" REALTY BROS SEX TRAFFIC CASE, DISGUSTING TEXTS

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

The Feds expect to file additional charges against luxury real estate agents Tal and Oren Alexander, and their brother Alon, as the number of women accusing the siblings of rape climbs. The brothers plead not guilty at their first Manhattan court appearance, all three appearing in matching beige jumpsuits, slip on shoes, and handcuffs on their wrists and ankles. Prosecutor Elizabeth Espinosa informed the court that a superseding indictment in the works, will add new allegations against the three siblings.  While prosecutors previously alleged 40 victims, Assistant U.S. Attorney Elizabeth Espinosa now says the government has interviewed more than 60 people who have reported being sexually assaulted by at least one of the brothers. In addition to victim accounts, Espinosa said that investigators gathered a "substantial" amount of evidence, data from iCloud, Instagram, Facebook, dating apps, cell phones, laptop computers and electronic storage devices.  Joining Nancy Grace today Richard Klugh  -  Defense Attorney for Oren Alexander - Attorney at Klugh Wilson Law  Website: KlughWilson.com40 years of experience, graduate from Harvard Law School  Greg Morse  - Partner at the law firm of King Morse, PLLC. Current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida), Former West Palm Beach Public Defender's Office. Author: "The Untested" found on Amazon,  kingmorselaw.com Dr. Bethany Marshall -  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/, Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Irv Brandt -  Former Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Country Attache, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica, Author: “SOLO JOURNEY: BUDDA KNIGHTS" AVAILBLE ON AMAZON,  Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor; Lynn Shaw  - Founder and Executive Director of Lynn's Warriors,  Host of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube, lynnswarrior.org  X: @lynns_warriors Youtube: @LynnsWarriors Ken Shull  - Polygraph Examiner - Former head of entire FBI polygraph program Washington, DC; former Special Agent with the FBI in WDC Sydney Sumner - Crime Online Investigative Reporter    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The so-called new ditties, the ultra luxe realty brothers, their sex trafficking case raging on. This is tonight. Disgusting text on a group chat with them revealed. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Luxury real estate brothers plead guilty in a federal sex trafficking case. In the last hours, there's only one word for it that I can say on air. Disgusting texts have emerged between the so-called real estate bros, the new ditties, because their cases mirror almost exactly the sex trafficking charges and allegations in the Sean Combs case.

These texts are shocking. And if these texts come into court during the real estate bro sex trafficking case, they better look fast for a plea deal. Let's take a listen to one of them. Going to start collecting for the pot to fly down. There should be a fee per bank and after bank. Oh yeah, what's the lineup? Need to pick winners. Just warn him your boys are hungry. Girls look fresh.

I think we should all bring chicks and not rely only on promoters since we never met the girls. We need fun girls with good attitude. I'm sure we all met many recently this summer. Now, this is the Alexander Brothers, the Real Estate Bros, the New Ditties group text. They don't even have enough shame to text disgusting text just between themselves. It's a group going to start collecting for the pot to fly bitches down. OK, right there. Guilty. There should be a fee per bang and after bang. I guess that's referring to sex act. Starting to collect Venmo for girls flights. Oh yeah. What's the lineup? Need to pick

winners. Warn him your boys are hungry. The girls look fresh. We need fun girls with good attitude. I've got so much more to tell you, but right now let's go straight out to our shrink. Joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction who is deep, deep into the Sean Combs investigation regarding sex trafficking. Joining us tonight, psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com and see her on Peacock. Dr. Bethany. Okay. Whoever read those texts to start with, beeped out the word bitches. Well, the jury's going to see that and everything else. It goes on. I don't want anyone being upset if they don't run a 10 man train.

Dr. Bethany, you do know what running a train is, right? One train car after the next. Okay. And they all go by a train. When a victim pulls a train, she has multiple sex attackers. When a perp runs a train, he's coming from the perp's point of view. Okay, do you understand now? Nancy, I fully understand that this is gang rape, that these men fit the profile of what we would call anger rapists, meaning they're usually using a sex act for a non-sexual purpose to have power and to make the women feel degraded and frightened.

That's why they don't want the women on ecstasy, Nancy. When the victim takes ecstasy, it produces feel-good feelings. They do not want their victims to feel good, to get pleasure, to get satisfaction. They are not engaging in mutual intimate sex acts. This is violence against women and what we would call gender-based violence, not just because the women are women, but because they represent a swath of society that these men have hatred towards. So this rape, they're going to put them on drugs like cocaine that produce excessive amounts of energy, but do not produce the kind of good feelings that would make them responsive.

In fact, in the complaint, there was one victim who began to pretend that she was having pleasure when she was being raped because she had read somewhere that this would deter the rapist. And it did. The rapist climbed off her and said, F this, this is not working well or something like that. So it gives you insight into the mindset of these men. These texts are emerging and will be state's exhibit number one. Of course, you have to go through. OK, these two pulling a train. I mean, and speaking about women as bitches flying them down, collecting Venmo for the, quote, girls flights, you know, to special guests joining us in addition to Dr. Bethany Marshall, Lynn Shaw is with us, founder, director, Lynn's Warriors, a nonprofit set up to fight sex trafficking

and sexual exploitation. Lynn, you know, I prosecuted a lot of thugs that were John's pimps and drugging the women is nothing new. But now, because we've got two millionaires from a multimillionaire family, it's a whole nother thing. That's what they're talking about, drugging the women and who's going to be in charge of flying the women down. And we don't want to pay too much. We want a good return on investment. We want fun girls with good attitude. I guess that

means that won't complain after they're raped. I'm referring to them as bitches pulling trains. Jump in land, drugging victims is nothing new. You know what I don't like about this, Nancy? We're celebritizing, if that's a word, this case because it's power and it's money and it's Hollywood, it's Miami. It's all that put together with these dirty ditty wannabes, right? These crime bros. Every day we have cases like this,

maybe not to this extent, but we have so many cases that are overlooked, or we don't have the man or woman power to prosecute, or if we don't have the video evidence, everything we call them, we can call them bitches and let's call it what it is, the reality. Unless we have video evidence and these text messages in court to hold them responsible, we will not get anywhere with this case. Joining me right now, veteran trial lawyer Greg Morse out of the Florida jurisdiction where the real estate bros practiced. He is a partner at King Morse and author of The Untested on Amazon. Greg, thank you for being with us.

There are a lot of evidentiary hurdles that have to be cleared by the state before texts like these can be brought and they must be authenticated. Explain in a nutshell. I'm not looking for a legal treatise here. We're playing ping pong, not chess, Greg. Sure. Well, these texts are going to come in. They're statements of the defendants and the texts themselves, when you use, you know, the word bitches, running a train, while these may be offensive to normal people, you know, these cases can become challenging because a lot of these folks, these women go to these locations, they think they're maybe going to be famous, they think maybe they're going to party and meet someone, and then things change. We see it all the time. So these type of

cases are not always a slam dunk for the government. There's a lot of information. You know, Greg Morse, I hear you wandering down the garden path trying to take me down a rabbit hole. I asked you, what are the evidentiary hurdles the state must surpass in order to get a digital evidence such as a computer, a phone. First of all, the state has to prove that this device belonged to the suspect and that the suspect actually wrote that text. But if they try to argue in front of the jury, hey, I didn't write that, they're going to look even worse. Well, sure. And the hurdles are simply the authentication of were these devices, text messages sent by the defendants or did someone create? It's very easy to change the

name of a contact in a phone and send a text message. I've been in cases like that where there's manipulation of digital devices. Unfortunately, the courts allow screenshots of text messages in, but the forensic unit of the federal government's going to look into these forms. They're going to have the IP addresses. They're going to have the subscriber info, and that's how they'll link it to these defendants. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, joining me right now, in addition to Greg Morris, veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction, Richard Clue. I'm sure you've heard of him. He is the defense attorney for one of the real estate bros, aka the new deities. He's representing Oren Alexander. He is a graduate from Harvard Law School. He is at cluelaw.com with over 40 years of experience. Mr. Clue, thank you for being with us. And you will have to, I'm sure, draw on all 40 years of your experience in education in order to take this to trial.

Mr. Clue, thank you for being with us. Do you believe this case will, in fact, go to trial? Or are you going to take a plea? There's no way that this case ends with anything other than an acquittal or a dismissal. men or women address towards other men or women various encounters as evidence of some kind of crime just shows that there is nothing in this case, nothing in this case. And the polygraph examination of both of the individuals that I've been involved with in this case has been very conclusive in that regard, nor has anything developed in any of the many efforts to get money. You know, I'm so glad you brought up the fact

that the defense team polygraphed their clients. Would you share with me tonight the questions your defendant, your client was asked? What questions were put down? My client is charged with having had nonconsensual sexual relations with one individual. That's the charge in the indictment. That individual is not identified by name in the indictment. So we had to conduct a polygraph in terms of every other circumstance

relating to that charge. And he passed with flying colors with a confidence level that is off the charts and ready to have been polygraphed by any FBI investigator. And, you know, I want to point out that the willingness of this individual, my client, to take a polygraph should be contrasted with the unwillingness of anybody else on the government side to take a polygraph. My question to you was, what were the questions put to your client? Did he have any kind of non-consensual contact with any person with regard to the charge in the indictment in which he is accused of having done so? Were there any other questions? That's the only, we filed the report and I'm happy to make it available to you.

The full report by the polygrapher, which took a considerable period of time. Again, was that the only question asked to your client? The one question? No, it was asked in four different ways to get to the same allegation. It's only one allegation. In other words, we talk about, generally, sometimes we talk about fairness and objectivity and trying to analyze a situation. There's only one direct allegation against my client, and that is that he had nonconsensual sexual relations with one individual on one occasion.

I polygraphed him on that single charge. If there are any other charges coming, I will polygraph him on those other charges. But I polygraphed him on that one. We polygraphed him four ways on that. Right. So your polygraph, Mr. Clue, and I have arranged and been there to observe many, many polygraphs as they relate to rape charges and murder charges. Now, of course, in many jurisdictions, a polygraph is not allowed in a criminal trial unless both parties stipulate to it up front before the poly is taken. In some jurisdictions, in criminal cases, they're not allowed at all. So you're telling me your polygraph questions to your client consisted of four questions, each relating to the same issue.

Is that correct, Mr. Clue? Yes. Is that correct, Mr. Clue? Yes, the sole allegation against him, the sole allegation that he actually had non-consensual sex with anybody in his whole life, that allegation was tested four different ways every time he came out flying colors. And I'll test him any time there's a specific allegation. We still don't even have the names of it. I believe that the questions are, one, did you have sex with victim two when you knew she had been covertly given drugs, which is very different from the question you just described. Number two, in New York, did you have sex with? That's the allegation that was made. That's the allegation

that's made. You know, what am I supposed to confirm? No, you said to me, Mr. Clue, did you engage in non-consensual sex? That's very different from did you have sex with victim two when you knew she had been covertly given drugs? I may be available to you. I'm not hiding anything from you, Nancy. You have the report. I filed the report. Okay, let's go to this. And I'm looking at it.

Thank you for sharing that. That was non-consensual. In New York, did you have sex with victim two when you knew she had been covertly given drugs? It would be very easy for him to state, well, I didn't see her being given drugs, so I didn't really know she had been given drugs. Number three, did you have any kind of sex with victim two when you had known she had secretly been given drugs? And number four, in New York, did you have any kind of sex with victim two when you knew she had secretly been given drugs? Now, in his examination, according to your report, Oren displayed, quote, no significant reactions indicating deception in answering the questions. Twin brother, Alon, also but a polygrapher set up by

the state? And if so, why not do that ahead of time? Well, we're under tremendous time pressure in this matter. We were under tremendous time pressure. We set the polygraph as fast as possible before he was going to be transferred to New York. We made it clear to the government as soon as we could that he's available for a law enforcement polygraph at any time. They have not indicated any desire to polygraph our clients because, of course, that would implicate some kind of obligation on their part to polygraph their own witnesses, which they do not want to do. No, that's not true. And that's because. Just because your client submits to a polygraph does not mean they've got to polygraph all the witnesses, including the victims. But actually, part of this has to do with the judge.

The judge doesn't, quote, believe in polygraphs. Didn't the judge go on to tell the attorneys the exams, the polygraph exams that you have arranged are, quote, clearly a move for the media, but their results, quote, won't be moving her? I believe, in effect, that's what the judge said. Well, you know, again, we haven't had any litigation on it yet. And so I don't want to prejudge any initial comments as being a final resolution of the matter. But, you know, we have a long way to go. Are you trying to tell me you believe polygraphs are allowed in criminal cases in New York courts? Well, there is no question that there has to pass a Daubert analysis, an expert for reliability analysis. And there's at a certain point, given very old allegations, this is an allegation against my client that is almost 10 years old, that there comes a point where if you don't have an opportunity to have the polygraph admitted, if the polygraph is fully sound and fully justified, then we think that there are constitutional implications in terms of being able to defend the client. I understand

nobody wants anybody to be harmed. I don't want anybody to be harmed in any social or other situation. But the harm I'm most concerned about in my job is the harm to the constitutional process and making sure that we're getting the correct result rather than the anticipated result. Mr. Clue. So I will litigate all of these issues. I want your clients to enjoy and exercise all their constitutional rights. But you and I and everybody on this panel, including veteran trial lawyers out of your jurisdiction, all know that polygraphs are not allowed in criminal cases in New York.

So when you try to tell me, Mr. Clue, and I greatly respect you, when you try to tell me this issue hasn't been litigated yet as to whether these polys are coming in, they're not coming in. They are not allowed in New York. There will be no litigation as to whether these polys come in. But speaking of the polys. You're right. My only response is more is the pityies come in. But speaking of the pollies. You're right. My only response is more is the pity because we're trying to get at the truth here.

If I'm right, man, Google it. You don't even have to turn on your LexisNexis for Pete's sake. You don't have to get your law clerk to run in there and shepherdize it. It's not allowed in New York. But what I do have is a pollygrapher with me. The Second Circuit is not barred, finally, absolutely categorically barred. You ain't giving up, are you? Okay, I respect that. It's not allowed. Hey, Ken Schull joining me. You know him well. I'm sorry, I've got to run.

I appreciate it. It's been very nice talking to you. Thank you. It has been such a pleasure. Thank you, Mr. Clue. Ken Schull is other real estate bro, a.k.a. the new diddies. What do you make of those questions? They claim they passed a poly. Well, you know, it's just impossible to know. I mean, I know this is a respected retired FBI agent, quite honestly. I respect him. I believe he has the proper training and the experience to conduct a proper polygraph exam. But I would, you know, I'd like to see the charts. I'd like to see the entire report to see,

to see, you know, if there were questions, how they were asked, whether the, what format was used and whether the scoring was proper. But I believe they probably were because I respect Mr. Orr and the work that he did in the FBI and privately. I was asking you specifically about the questions themselves. So I'd like to direct your attention now to the questions, Mr. Shull. I find the questions to be very, very vague and containing so many facts that they are easily evaded. For instance, and this is something you look at when you are formulating polygraph questions. It's very important because if you leave room for evasion in the question, the polygraph means nothing.

For instance, first question, did you have sex with victim two when you knew she had been covertly given drugs? And there is the targets out. The question should have been at any time. Did you have sex with victim two? Not when you knew she had been given drugs covertly because there's a very strong possibility that the real estate bros

were not present when the women were secretly given drugs in their drinks, allegedly. So they can easily evade the real issue of non-consensual sex. Do you follow my drift? I do. I do.

And that's when I see the questions, those are the words that I have circled here that concern me a little bit. Covertly, covertly, secretly, and secretly. I don't know why that term has to be in there. Why does that jump out at you? And why did you circle those words, Mr. Shull? Well, because does it really matter if they were given covertly? I mean, you know, if that's my question, why is it or why are we only

concerned about him having sex with these women when the drugs were given covertly? Maybe they weren't given covertly. I mean, I don't know the reason for that term. I also notice that none of these questions refer to in direct opposition to what the defense attorney Richard Clu said. None of them use the word non-consensual. Not one of the questions use the word non-consensual. Do you see that, Mr. Shull? Right. I do. I agree. So to Greg Morris, let me ask you this, Greg, what I'm trying to convey, maybe you can phrase it better than me and take off your defense hat just one moment. We're talking about the actual truth, not what you and

I spar about. Okay. These questions are formulated in a way to allow the target, the real estate bros, pass the poly. There are too many exceptions to the question. For instance, if somebody said, did you see Greg Morris tonight? I could easily say, no, I didn't see him because I'm really just looking at a camera right now. I'm looking at a monitor. That's not really you, is it? There's a million ways to evade a poly question and pass. That's why the questions must be specifically formulated to hit the issue.

See what I'm saying? What's wrong with these questions? I agree with you. They actually violate the first rule of cross-examination. Don't ask compound questions in a polygraph, that gives the opportunity, like you just said, for the person to be honest and kind of split hairs in the questioning. Likely the polygraph was done to try to convince the government to make a different decision than continue to prosecute this case because it has no bearing, as you pointed out, on the actual evidence if there's a trial. These aren't coming into court. Morse, this is why I think the judge said this is a move for the media, but it's not moving me because everybody in that courtroom knows pollies are not allowed in that jurisdiction in criminal cases. So all of this is just a PR stunt. It's not coming in. Now Now I got to respect Clue because

he never quit, right? He kept arguing, well, it's not barred in this district and maybe it's not, it hasn't been litigated. It has been litigated over and over and appealed. They're not allowed. So this is a publicity stunt to argue that they passed a poly. A, the poly questions were evasive. They were set up to allow the real estate bros to pass them. And second, it's not allowed, even if they did pass it, with real questions administered by law enforcement. But here's the deal.

Here's my question to Clue, the defense attorney. Should I believe you or my lying eyes? Watch this Morse. I was behind him. He just pushed me down and had his knees and hands on my shoulders. Behind you? Yeah. Like right here.

Like behind me and holding me down like that with his knees and his arms. And then Oren and Ilana were kind of discussing of like amongst themselves, like who would go first. Oren raped and Elan Alexander charged with a federal sex trafficking scheme in New York as over 60 victims come forward with allegations. Joining us tonight, Richard Clue, the veteran defense attorney representing one of the new ditties, the real estate bros charged with massive counts of sex trafficking, more charges coming down the pike. He claims his clients are telling the truth that none of these charges existed. And let me remind everyone, the real estate bros are two twins and one other brother are not guilty until proven guilty in a court of law. Right now, they are presumed innocent. So should we believe their veteran defense attorney from Harvard, or should we believe

the alleged victims? Let's listen. And then what happens after that? Oren and Elan were basically debating, just saying, like, do you want to go first? Do you want to go first? Deciding who's going to go first. Oren was putting on a condom. Oren decided to go first. And they were both talking about who was going to go first. That's when I was, like, crying and asking them.

They were just ignoring me. And when Oren went first, where did he penetrate you? He gradually penetrated you with his fingers. Yes. Okay. You were hearing one of the alleged victim statements. We are hearing her initials known to us are M Mother W. M W.

Are those her true initials? I don't know that. Sydney Sumner joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Sydney, thank you for being with us. Where did we get these video statements of the alleged victims? Because they're very powerful. Did you hear that, Sid? Investigator, you're on your back. Your shorts and your bathing suit bottoms have been removed. That's a nice way of saying they were taken off. What happens after that? Oren and Elan basically trying to decide who is going first.

It makes it sound like who's going to get into the limo first. They're talking about raping her. Oren was putting on a condom and decided to go first. And I was there and I was crying and saying, please stop. And they were ignoring, they were ignoring me. And she says, Oren went first and penetrated her vaginally. Where did these videos come from, Sid? Fancy these allegations are absolutely horrifying. These are coming from Miami Beach Police. It's

three different victims. Three different victims have come forward and spoke with Miami Beach Police about what allegedly happened to them. And they all tell very similar stories where they don't know these men very well, but they feel like they're being invited into a safe space. It's a party with multiple people. In M.W.'s case, the brothers send photos of what looks to be a party. It looks like there's a pool party going on. They send her a photo with multiple people at their home. She shows up and no one is there except for the brothers and their friend, Ohad Fisherman. That's who is at the house. So she's been duped into coming over here thinking she's coming for a party.

And it's just her and these men. And of course, they overpower her. And the other two situations situations there is one woman who describes what she thinks is being drugged she describes having one glass of wine at dinner going home to have a better conversation it was a group dinner she goes up with his apartment to actually have a chance to talk to him it was supposed to be a date. She doesn't finish one glass of wine. And she describes not being able to move, not being able to speak, feeling locked in her own body. It's horrifying. You know, Sid, you're right. These are from the investigative files. And I'm so glad that they

took the statements and videoed them. You know, it's hard enough to interview rape victims. They don't like talking about it. They don't like reliving it, even if it happened years and years before, Sid. So as painful as it was, this is like a prep for them taking the stand. And I believe, I believe the defense attorney, Richard Clue, I don't see these guys entering any type of a plea. I think that they are so arrogant that they will go to trial thinking that somehow they can intimidate the victims. Hey, Sid, here is another portion of the video of one of the statements. Now, we were hearing M.W. This is more from M.W.

before we move to the next victim video. Listen. I don't know for sure, but I do feel like they reported it. Okay. Just because of where the phone was. It was on the chair when Alon was raping me. Whose phone would that be, or who was it that you saw with that phone do you know?

Um, Elan with Papafilm. Okay, that's the one that was, okay. But I'm not sure. Probably those three people or so, we don't know. Yeah, um, I'm just, I'm not sure if they recorded it, I just felt like after I realized where the phone was popped up, um, and then how he was on it and scrolling through it and stuff. It felt like he did.

So I tried it and then when it was on my head, I remember I was walking around, loafing around with him, being happy and excited. And then he just, like, I remember he just unzipped the back of my dress and, like, started to move me, like, onto the bed. And I just remember, like, kind of laughing because I thought it was a joke. Like, we hadn't, like, done anything sexually. We hadn't had a connection. We hadn't even, like, laid out or touched each other. So I was like, I thought it was funny. I didn't think that he was being serious.

But then when I was on the bed and I got scared and I said, no, no, no, I don't, I'm not ready for this. You were hearing a voice distortion of the victim, clearly not wanting her voice out there. And if you see her body language, she sounds like she's crying and fanned herself and starts picking at her nails as she's trying to recount what happened. She says, I was goofing around and then suddenly he just unzipped the back of my dress. I was laughing because we had not done anything sexually. We had never even made out or touched each other. I thought it was funny. And then I got scared and said, no, no, no, I'm not ready for this. This is victim to M.G., M. Mother G. Grace. Listen to more. I just feel like my body was kind of like not reacting.

I felt like I didn't have strength and I don't know what was happening. And it was scaring me because I don't know. I can't guarantee if he put something on my chest. I have no proof. And I don't know what that would feel like. But I just remember, like, I remember feeling really stressed out that I couldn't move. And I could barely, like, speak. And I remember I started crying and I had tears going down my face.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me right now is Irv Brandt, former Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshals Service, with their international branch, chief inspector, DOJ, Office of International Affairs, attache all over the world, hunting the bad guys, and author of a string of Jack's solo books on Amazon, his most recent Forever Solo, Night of the Dragon. Irv, I want you to hear when it comes to chasing down a bad guy, what happened in court when the real estate bros, the new ditties, asked for bond. Listen. Oren Alexander's defense attorney makes a final desperate bid for bail,

claiming his client is a changed man since becoming a father. Richard Clue, who refers to the alleged rapes as orgies, claims the danger of another one occurring is zero in or out of jail, now that Oren is a married man. Because it's considered a dangerous crime, I'm required to hold you with no bond. You'll see- Your Honor?

Your Honor? Yes, sir. Don't talk about the facts though, your attorney's here. Your Honor, my wife is nine months pregnant, due any day now with our first child. Her family's in Brazil. She's counting on me to be with her during labor. That's something you have a very good attorney.

And then the prosecution fired back. Listen. In prosecutors' arguments against bail, attorneys detailed a long history of the Alexander brothers' pattern, claiming evidence shows all three were participating in sexual violence all the way back to high school. Classmates overheard the brothers bragging about sexual assaults at school, boasting about running train on their victims and saying they wanted to do it again. One of the brothers even wrote in a yearbook, riding my first choo-choo train was the most memorable moment from high school. You know, it's very

rare, Irv Brandt, that I'm speechless. But imagine a teen boy, say 17 years old, when you write in somebody's yearbook, Irv, have a great summer, something like that, besties forever. He writes his most memorable memory, his most memorable moment in high school was quote, riding my first choo choo train. In other words, gang rape. Irv Brandt, you have tracked down people all over the world. There is no chance in H E double L that this judge is going to give these multimillionaire real estate bros a chance to abscond. They're 20 minutes from Teterboro.

Explain, Irv, how easy it would be to catch a private plane to another country. Look at Roman Polanski. He's been hiding out in, what, France all these years with a statutory rape charge waiting for him here in the States. You're correct, Nancy. Money makes all things possible. When you have that kind of wealth and you can use private planes, set up private airfields, you can escape this country. There are no restrictions the court could employ that could prevent that from happening. He said in court, Olin said in court, that his wife is pregnant, expecting their child, and her family's in Brazil, which leads me to

believe that she's a Brazilian national. If he managed to get to Brazil, we have an extradition treaty. But if he's married to a Brazilian national, that trying to extradite him out of Brazil would be complicated, if not impossible, especially given the amount of money that he has and the legal team that he could hire. So, no, Nancy, that judge is correct in keeping him in prison awaiting trial. Here's the thing. I'm trying to direct you to Teterboro or any private airstrip. When I was a prosecutor, we had to go to a lot of remote areas in the state of Georgia to find witnesses, to talk to witnesses. And very often we would take a sheriff's helicopter and we would land literally out in the middle of a field sometimes. So when you are taking a private plane, you don't even have to land in an airport. You can land on any strip

of pavement, any flat surface that you can find, right? So how easy is it, Irv Brandt from the U.S. Marshal Service, for a perp to get on a private plane? It's not like you're going through TSA at Hartsfield. You're not showing ID, nothing like that. They don't know if you've got a warrant or not. You're correct, Nancy. It would be easy, especially given the amount of money that he has. He could fly anywhere in this world.

It is all possible. Money makes it possible. You're absolutely correct. You just heard from a former senior inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service who's chased bad guys all around the world state that with money, all things are possible. We now know the reason the judge in this case denied bail for the real estate bros, a.k.a. the new ditties. New charges are being added as we speak. But take a listen to the real estate bros from the horse's mouth. Look what we got in New York. Check this out,

New York City. If you ever want property, a house or a condo, if you're not getting it from my man, you played yourself. Real estate brokers and brothers Tal and Oren Alexander did more than a billion dollars in sales this year alone in New York City. Those from our friends at CNBC and from the Facebook of Alexander Team Facebook. OK, there you have it. In one year, Brothers Talon or Alexander did more than a billion.

That's with a B as in brother of sales that year alone in New York City. So if they're given bond, okay, to you, Irv Brandt, how would they leave the country and how quickly could it be done? I say they drive straight from MDC where they're being housed and go straight to a private strip. There are plenty of private airstrips in the Hamptons nobody even knows about. That's exactly how it would work, Nancy.

They couldn't linger in the country. They would have to have a plan in place and they would leave the country immediately. And then they would likely go to a country where there is no extradition treaty or they know that it would be extremely difficult to be extradited from that country. I know this much. They've got a team of amazing lawyers, a dream team, including Richard Clue you heard earlier. I mean, if I didn't know better, he was trying to convince me that his horrible polygraph would be admitted in New York, which is, of course, disallowed.

I mean, these lawyers are good. Will they be able to surmount testimony from the alleged victims? Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.