Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - New evidence in tot mom Casey Anthony’s murder trial just revealed

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

Saturday June 16, 2018, marks 10 years since little Caylee Anthony was last seen alive by anyone other than her mother Casey Anthony. It's a case that changed the lives of many people involved in the search for answers about what happened to the 2-year-old Florida girl, who was found dead nearly 2 months later. Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who bailed Casey Anthony out of jail before she was rearrested, and Tim Miller, whose Texas Equusearch group helped in the search, join Nancy Grace to relive those tragic summer days. Psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, juvenile judge & lawyer Ashley Willcott, and RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk also take part in this discussion. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Why fork out thousands of dollars to a private eye when you can do the job yourself? Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Tot Mom. No two words sum the whole horrific story up better than them. Those two taught mom. Casey Anthony's name will be remembered that way forever. And she will go down in history as the woman most of America believed murdered her child, disposed of her body as if it were trash, and beat the rap, acquitted at trial.

Believe it or not, 10 years have passed, and still the truth is not known. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. It was June 15, 2008, when two-year-old Kelly goes missing. It had been a tumultuous night in the Anthony home where top mom, Casey Anthony, lived with her mother and father, Cindy and George, and have a huge argument about the way she's raising the baby. At this time, they believe tot mom actually has a job at Universal. Little do they know, she's sitting around the house all day, sponging off them, trying to land a boyfriend, and pretending to have a job complete with uniform and work credentials. That night, when Top Mom storms out of the house, the baby is never seen alive again, even though Top Mom has a date that very night, spotted on video at a blockbuster with her new lover, walking around without a care in the world. He says later he never saw the baby. Joining me,

Tim Miller, renowned for his work finding missing people with his own company, Texas EquiSearch. He has devoted his life to finding the missing since his own daughter went missing also with me leonard padilla the man who helped tot mom get out on bond when she was first arrested on a minor offense this was before the body was found he knows what happened on the inside of the anthony home due to his bondswoman being in there. Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst out of LA. Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, and founder of childcrimewatch.com. Alexis Tereschuk with RadarOnline.com. Alan Duke, Jackie Howard, all here to analyze why even today we still don't know what really happened to two-year-old Kaylee. Let's kick it off with Alexis Tereschuk. Take me back.

In 2008, Kaylee Anthony was the happiest little two-year-old girl. She lived with her grandparents who really were her major caregivers. Her mom was very young and never told anybody who the father of this baby was, but she was taken care of in a loving home. She, the mother, Casey, decides that she really doesn't want to be a mom anymore. She starts going out partying. Her parents take full, not legal, but they are the main custodial parents of this little girl. And then she goes missing the parents george and cindy anthony who love this little girl so much she's their only grandchild they take care of her are incensed they are calling their daughter frantically where is this

child she's always lived with them she's never lived anywhere else they haven't seen her hours go by they haven't seen her days go by weeks go by they well she was tricking everybody including her own parents that knew her and knew pretty much her bag of tricks listen to what her mother cindy anthony says on the stand about all the reasons top mom Casey Anthony gave her why she, Cindy, just couldn't speak to little Kaylee. So I started texting her just to make sure that everything was okay, and I'd leave messages, and then she'd call me back. I just wanted to, you know, talk to her at least every day to make sure she was okay, And I did persist every day asking if I could speak with Kaylee because I miss hearing her little voice. All right. And were you given an opportunity to speak with Kaylee at all? No. Okay. Were you told at that point

where Kaylee was? Yes. What were you told? I was told at various times that either Kaylee was napping or with Jeff's mother and Zachary, maybe at the beach in Jacksonville, on a boat, just various places. You know, I can hear Cindy Anthony on the stand reliving that. And you know what, to Dr. Bethany marshall they george and sandy have been much maligned but you got to remember the way they appeared to the world the way they came across were portrayed was the worst time of their lives they were raising kelly she was for all intents and purposes their two-year-old. They were paying all the bills. They were loving her, supporting her, feeding her, taking care of her, putting a roof over her head, clothes on her body, a bed, toys, everything for her.

They loved her more than life. And so when we first meet the Anthonys, Bethany, I remember that clip of George Anthony. He was on his front yard he was yelling and screaming at the media to get off his yard i know do you blame him really i mean how nuts would you go if your child was gone if you're what you perceive as your child your daughter suspected of murder and then 24 7 365 there is literally a media circus in your yard. Every time you come out, they hurl questions at you about your dead granddaughter. And, you know, this household had already been a pressure cooker. Prior to Kaylee's birth, George and Cindy had already drawn up papers for divorce. So there was already troubles in the marriage.

Now, wait a minute, Dr. Bethany. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Okay. Now, Ashley, Alexis, Bethany, I think Leonard as well. Tim, I don't think you ever got the pleasure of meeting my husband. He's the most easygoing person you'd ever want to meet. But I would say every two or three weeks I threatened to divorce him. Okay. And for good

reason. I'm not just making that up. Okay. If he leaves one more cough drop stuck on the furniture, I mean, the other day I had to get it off with a utensil, like a knife. And then it took the paint, a hand painted tabletop, took the paint off. You know what I had to do? I had to get super glue and glue the cough drop back on the table and hope nobody noticed. Okay. That was a divorce threat. So what I'm saying is if I can threaten divorce over a cough drop and they've got this freeloader living there with the baby, with money problems and pressures of every marriage. Yeah. People threaten divorce. They, you know, it happens, but as of right now, they're still married. So that's a testament to love, I guess. Anyway, back to the drama unfolding in their home. Well, I guess where I was going with this

was that George moved back home to help raise Kaylee. The initially this little girl glued the marriage back together. They were devoted to her. Have you ever seen the pictures, the picture of Cindy with her face over the newborn baby? They were gazing at each other, gazing into each other's eyes. They loved this little girl. But throughout the first two years of Kaylee's life, the mother, Casey, increasingly took less and less responsibility for the granddaughter, right? And so I think what happened in that household is George and Cindy saw everything unravel between their daughter and granddaughter, and they kept trying to get her daughter to take more and more responsibility. The more they pushed her, the less responsibility she took.

And I think they really couldn't organize their thought process around the fact that their daughter was not bonded with the granddaughter. I don't think it's until George smelled the car that was in the tow yard and it smelled like a dead body in it that he began to conceptualize that maybe there was foul play in the household.

And can you imagine what that does to a marriage? They've been under extraordinary pressure. You know, I want to go to a special friend of mine, Leonard Padilla. And Tim Miller, I'm going to get right to you regarding the search that you helped conduct trying to find Kelly. And, you know, Miller was not taking money for this, just barely getting enough money to pay expenses in his effort to find Kelly. Leonard Padilla, so when they realized after 30-plus days, which I'm going to circle back to it, but I want everybody to know what you know.

After about 30-plus days, they finally realized Top Mom has lied to them. And they charge her with something like obstruction. So she's in jail just for a little bit. Then she gets out. And knowing that they may end up charging her with murder, they have a bonds person, you. You help her get out of jail. Now, a lot of people would be angry at you, but the reality is you put a female bonds person with her at all times who went into the Anthony home. That's correct. When she bailed out, part of the deal was that one of our people would be with her

at the residence or wherever she went 24-7. So there was Tracy McLaughlin and also Rob Dick were the two people that were assigned to be with her 24-7. So the woman, the one that you told me about, is Tracy. I remember the other guys well. We're in the home. I remember the story you told me. The night she got out of jail

on obstruction for lying to cops. Still hadn't found the body yet. And she comes home. Leonard, you told me she walked in the door and the first thing she said it was not about Kelly or the search she said what'd you cook for dinner mom you know it it was amazing to me that was the first thing that she said when she got out of jail I want to circle back to Alexis. So we know now the baby goes missing that evening. We know that she storms out of the home that evening after an argument with Cindy.

What happened then, Alexis? So then she goes over to her boyfriend's house and they have a date. They go out to Blockbuster, which I feel like nobody knows what Blockbuster is anymore, but it's where you would rent movies together. You didn't just download them on your television. So they went out, so they were caught on a security camera. But you know who was not caught on the security camera? Little Kaylee. So the theory is, and this was presented during the trial,

that Kaylee was killed between leaving the house and Casey going to her boyfriend's house. What many people say and what the evidence pointed to was that she used chloroform to put the little girl to sleep and then put her in the trunk of her car. And little Kaylee was never seen from again. Soy is with her boyfriend she's on a date she's they are in his house and this little girl is dying in the trunk of her car i want to go now to tim miller with texas equisert who has devoted his life to finding missing people tim when were you and your team called in? We were called in about two weeks after little Kaylee was reported missing. And I'll never forget the moment I walked in the house.

Casey actually walked up to me and said, well, thanks for being here. But during that conversation, she says, I know she's out there somewhere and hopefully you can bring her back which caught me by surprise as many cases as i've worked and it wasn't the typical reaction that a mother has when the daughter is missing and what but she never said the word kaylee and she's never said the word home wait a minute minute. Wait a minute, Tim. Tim, first of all, let me apologize up front for interrupting you. But every time I talk to you or Leonard, I get so much information that I don't want to have you keep talking. And then I don't circle back to what you just said. And guys, Tim is the one out there in the woods, in the swamps, going through on foot, on a horseback with ATVs, getting volunteers together, doing all the heavy work. All right.

That's him out there. You just said that she had this odd affect, her demeanor. What do you mean by that? I want to understand what you remember well i remembered i mean she actually walked up to me and she was smiling and uh and it's like a mother's not smiling you know a mother's in distress at that at that period of time and again she said i know she's out there somewhere and hopefully you can bring her back. But she never said the word Kaylee. She never said home.

And she said, my attorney's going to be here to talk to you. And then when her attorney got there, when Jose got there, we sat on the couch, and he said, I'm glad you're here. I want you to do everything you can do to find little Kaylee. But do not ask my client any questions about her daughter, which like, oh my God, you know, that's the first person we want to talk to. What did you ask Sarah? What was going on? And so we knew in the very beginning, this is going to be difficult. I knew beyond any shadow of any doubt that Casey had everything to do with little Kaylee's disappearance. I've been on too many of these cases, and I knew we had a big struggle ahead of us.

You know, I'm thinking back about her demeanor. I want to go to Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, and mother. Ashley, think about it. You have your children that I know very, very well. Can you imagine as a mom? I'm just going to put it out there. Your girl that's like my girl,

Lucy, same age, everything goes missing. And you say, my lawyer will be here to talk to you in a minute no well miller is there sweating soaked through and through looking for your child and you go you know my lawyer will talk to you really yeah no can you imagine so my kids are my heart your kids are your heart every parent i know their children are their heart. This is why she

has been described as the most hated mother in America, because mother's parents cannot understand how she could possibly act this way. Your heart would be ripped out. I've always said, my husband has said, put me in a straitjacket, God forbid anything ever happened to one of my children. And this, she had no compassion. It's like somebody said, oh, her necklace is missing and she wanted to find it. She has no emotion for this child. That's her own child. It's really unfathomable to parents.

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Visit truthfinder.com slash Nancy. Enter your own name. Get started. Throughout June, Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three-part limited series of Haley Dean Mysteries based on characters from the New York Times bestselling books by Nancy Grace. The series concludes this Sunday, June 17th, with Haley Dean Mysteries, A Will to Kill. Emotionally ready to confront her fiance's 15-year-old murder, Haley finds herself caught up in the case of a missing college co-ed. But the deeper Haley digs into the young woman's disappearance, the more she's convinced the two events are related,

starring Kelly Martin and Chad Lowe. Join us at 9 p.m. Eastern Time this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy Grace for Haley Dean Mysteries' A Will to Kill on Hallmark Movies and Mysteries. What is it about this story that has gripped America, do you think? Well, Piers, that's an excellent question, and a lot of people have wondered about that, and I think it boils down to something very simple. The little girl you see on the screen, there's something about Kelly herself. Her smile, her persona, we see her in video, we hear her voice. A lot of times when children go missing, we don't have the photos or the videos to really get to know them.

And also, Piers, I believe that when you look at top mom, Casey Anthony, it's almost as if the mind is tricking the eye. Because you hear this damning evidence about her, and you look at her in court, she's sweet-looking, petite. She looks pale and frail with her hair back in a ponytail like a cheerleader. And it's hard to take in and assimilate that what you're seeing is not what the evidence is telling you. That is me talking to my friend Piers Morgan, now editor with Daily Mail, to Tim Miller with Texas EquiSearch as we get to the 10-year mark after little Kelly goes missing and still don't really know what happened to her other than she was killed. Tim, you were around top mom Casey Anthony.

You were there in the midst of the search for her. What else did you observe, Tim? Well, the tension in the family. I mean, you could have cut it with a knife. It was a very uncomfortable place to be. You know, I remember probably on the fourth day we was on that search, I told George, I said, you know, George, I don't know anything about Orlando. I've got a map here. And just in case something did happen, little Kaylee,

where do you think we need to start searching? And he actually got Casey out of her bedroom. We had the map on the counter. George gave her a pencil and said, all right, Casey, mark the spot where they need to go. Casey threw the pencil down, went in the room, slammed the door. And you can only imagine the tension that happened at that time. Tim Miller, wait a minute. I've never heard that story before. Tim, did you testify at trial? I wasn't called in to testify at trial.

I just, what a huge, huge blunder because i tell you if if my child is missing and i go to hay with you throw the pencil down and go back to bed instead of trying to help you and another thing is you'll you'll recall guys the theory was that george anthony had something to do with Kaylee's death and disposal of her body. And this shows, this one story. Tim Miller, just bear with me. Will you tell that story one more time? I've got to hear this again. It was the third or fourth day.

I went in the Anthony's house, and I sat down with him, and I'll never forget, we was at the kitchen counter. And I said, said George just in case something has happened to little Kaylee I think we need to start an actual search at the end of the day if we don't find her we still hold on to that hope she's alive but I don't know anything about Orlando I've got this map where do you think we ought to start she calls Casey out of her bedroom she comes in she hands her a pencil. It says marked on the map where they need to go. Casey threw the pen down, screamed at her dad,

and then Cindy started yelling at me and said, well, you came here to find a life. Kaylee and I said, well, just in case something has happened, we need to start a ground search. And, you know, I wasn't welcome in that house there for a pretty good while after that. It was unbelievable, the tension and the yelling that was going on. What did George do? Tim and Cindy actually started arguing because that's when Cindy yelled at me and said, you came here to find a live Kaylee. What do you mean you're going to start a search?

I said, oh, something has happened to her. And I said, well, in case something has happened, the sooner we find her, the better chance there is to determine the cause of death. And then the investigators could move forward with their investigation. And Stanley did not want to hear that. Of course, Kaylee ran into the room and slammed the door. And the tension was unbelievable. And then I left and then got with the detectives and said, we've got a real problem here. Man, don't you know it.

To Leonard Padilla, bondsman. Remember, everybody, Tot Mom was first arrested on sort of an obstruction charge because she led police on a wild goose chase alex i'm gonna come back to you on that trying to so-called find the baby um padilla's bonding company bonded her out on that simple charge and she stayed out until around the time kelly's body was found. Leonard Padilla joining us. Leonard, I want you to think back. What were your and your team's observations of top mom Casey Anthony?

Well, when we first got involved, it was by contacting her attorney, Jose Baez, who was in New York at the time. We had several conversations. He didn't know much about the situation either. The first evening we were back there, we actually had a meeting with Cindy George and I think Lee Casey's brother was present and we told him what we would be doing and our tactics are different than law enforcement or even Tim Miller's situation. And we did not interview Casey at the jail, which is something that is usually done by one of the bail agents.

I'm not a bonding person myself. I'm the bounty hunter for the company. We made as part of the deal that Tracy McLaughlin would be with her 24-7 in the house and at all times. What did you, Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, learn about Tot Mom's behavior. The bond had been posted. She got out of jail, and it was at her parents' home. And I told her, I said, Look, I want you to tell me, as best you can, remembering that there's no privilege here.

I mean, anything you tell me, I might have to someday repeat to the law enforcement people or whoever. But I want you to tell me as best you can what happened that got you arrested. She told me that she had come home with her child on Father's Day evening. And she had talked to her mom about leaving the baby with her. Cindy has the baby all day at her father's place where he was staying at, a senior citizen housing, and they got in a big row over it.

And the outcome was that Casey said, look, I've got to be at my friend's house, which was this new boyfriend she had. But she couldn't take the baby. And the reason she couldn't take the baby and a lot of people didn't understand. And I didn't either until finally somebody, one of the people there said that there was a lot of drugs and they were afraid that the baby might ingest a pill or something. Casey told me that her and her mom got in a big row and Casey grabbed her baby and left. Now my best memory is that the baby didn't come back to the residence that evening or the next morning and yet every time I turn around I'm listening

to somebody testify that they you know that they had seen the baby the next morning. But that is not my memory. But nobody has ever asked me. You know what's really interesting about what you're saying is that she was bending over backwards not to take baby Kelly with her over to her boyfriend's house. I guess that would have totally cramped her style. Alexis Tereschuk, listen to this. This is that night, that day, when Keely is at her granddad's at the rest home where he was, and she's singing his favorite song.

I don't know, dear she's singing his favorite song. Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter. Let's get to the night in question, the night that Tot Mom, Casey Anthony, leaves the house in a fit of anger over who's going to take care of the baby. The baby's been with Cindy all day and now she wants to go party and not bring the baby. What happened? Little Kaylee has been with Cindy. They went and visited Cindy's dad. It's the cutest thing ever. The cutest little video of this tiny little two-year-old singing in her little sweet little girl voice. And Casey wants to go out and party. She gets in a huge, huge fight with Cindy because Casey has never taken any responsibility at all for this little girl.

So she storms out of the house with her. Goes away. Nobody ever sees this child again alive. There are no sightings of her. There's then Casey basically shuts down with her parents. She goes over, she goes over to her boyfriend's house. They go out, they go on dates. Casey at this point concocts all of these crazy stories that she tells because her parents

have taken care of this child. She's lived with them for two years. Cindy and George keep calling Casey saying, where's Kaylee? Where's Kaylee? Casey comes up with these stories like, oh, you know, she's with a nanny. Casey, who doesn't have a job and has zero money of her own, is claiming that she's paying a woman to take care of her child. She's also just saying that she's out with a boyfriend, with the boyfriend's family. She lies to everybody.

Let me say a couple things to you. A lot of times people would ask Tracy where the baby was. She's with Zanny the Nanny. Do you know who Zanny the Nanny was? Xanax? Xanax.

When she ran out of Xanax prescriptions from her friends to pick up Xanax with and when her friends had no more Xanax. When she ran out of Xanax prescriptions from her friends to pick up Xanax with, and when her friends had no more Xanax to provide for her, she had to come up with something. Somebody came up with something, and that was the idea of, hey, have you ever thought of making chloroform? Now, Casey is an accomplished liar from the gate. I don't know where she picked it up, but she is great, and I'll tell you

how great she is. The morning after we bailed her out, I was sitting there talking to her, and I told her, I said, don't ever lie to me about anything. If you lie to me, I'll put you back in jail quicker than the cops can. I says, but when you get through

with this case, and you will, you're going to beat this case. You come see me, I'll give you a job. Because you're as good a liar as I've ever met. Wow. So she leaves to go to the boyfriend's with Kelly. She gets there.

They have their date. They're caught on video at Blockbuster, as you pointed out. No Kelly in sight. And the boyfriend says he never saw her that night. She makes up all these lies to the mother and father, George and Cindy, about where is Kelly. Won't let them speak to her. You know why? Because Kelly was dead that night the very first

night after the fight with Cindy Kelly was never seen again ever then the car which George and Cindy are paying for gets impounded now see I always thought Tim Miller with Texas Equisource joining me that that was intentional that she knew she leaves the car alone for 30-plus days or however long, it's going to get impounded or stolen, and then the evidence may be lost because she thinks nobody will ever find the car, Tim Miller, but they do. What are your thoughts on that car, Tim? Well, I think that she drove around with little Kaylee in that car and then finally got that odor of her own self.

Because, I mean, she doesn't think five minutes ahead of time. She thinks about the moment. And then she decides to go ahead and dispose of the body. Then when George gets that car out of impound, that's when Cindy dials 911 and says, it smells like there's been a damn dead body in this car. Take a listen to this. Hello, what's your emergency?

I called a little bit ago to Deputy Sheriff's. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. Okay, what is the address that you're calling from? We're talking about a three-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the baby's in the store. I need to find her.

Your daughter admitted that the baby is where? That the babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter's been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the car. Okay, what is the three-year-old's name? Kaylee. C-A-Y-L-E-E. Anthony. Tim Miller, Texas EquiSearch. I think that's when the lid blew off the pot.

When George and Cindy smelled the, and George a former cop, Cindy in the healthcare business, they smell body decomposition. It's something you never forget. You know what it is when you smell it. I really can't describe it. So, Tim, right then, I believe, is when George and Cindy know for real that something horrible has happened. Yeah, they know at that moment,

no, little Kaylee's not coming home alive. And then the panic set in. And, again, the tension in the house after that, it was an unbelievable tension, something I've never experienced before and never want to experience again with a family. Especially, Tim, you know, I say, people ask me how I keep trying to stop crime and dealing with crime after my fiancé was murdered. I really can't explain it. It's almost like a gut instinct. You have to do something. And I have often wondered, Tim, about your search for your daughter. And you turned that into a lifelong mission of trying

to help people that are missing. But it takes such a toll. Like he's just saying, Dr. Bethany Marshall, he has never felt it and doesn't want to feel it again, what was going on in that home. Because I'm telling you, George knew. He knew from the get-go. And what's so critical about what Tim Miller is saying, I wish they had put him on the stand. I wish they had too.

He saw with his own eyes George. So you remember they blamed George at trial, claiming he molested Top Mom, which I don't believe for a minute. They blame him for disposing of Kelly's dead body. A former cop, as if he wouldn't do CPR and call 911. But what Tim Miller is saying is that George Anthony goes and grabs Taught Mom, gets her out of the bed. I mean, don't you think she'd wake up and be there bright-eyed and bushy-tailed when Tim Miller gets there to help find Kelly? No, she's laid up in the bed. And he says, help us.

He says, help us. She throws the pencil at him and goes back to bed that shows to me george did not have anything to do with this and he wasn't in some conspiracy with top mom to hide the body which was their defense because that one story shows that's not true bethany and you know george it's george, George and Cindy were in completely different places in terms of realizing what a pathological liar Casey was. Because Cindy had gone to see a therapist to deal with the fact that Casey was not taking responsibility for Kaylee. Remember that? She goes to see a therapist sometime prior to Kaylee's disappearance. And the therapist

advises Cindy to tell Casey, Casey, if you don't start taking responsibility for Kaylee, we're going to kick you out of the house. And I think that set the homicidal plan in motion right there for Casey, because what happened was she was going to lose her meal ticket. The minute Cindy forced Casey to take responsibility for Kaylee, Casey had to make a choice. Either I take responsibility for my daughter, in which case I have to bond with her, take care of her, or I can get rid of her, hold on to my parents' resources all for myself. They'll never figure it out. And then I can go out party, you know, hang out on the stripper pole, go out with Jesse Grund, my boyfriend, hang out on the sofa, eating chips. So I think that when the worm turned for Casey and she realized that the grandparents were not

going to let her treat her daughter this way anymore, I think George and Cindy took divergent paths. I think that George started to see his daughter as a pathological liar. I think he started to become very concerned. And so by the time Tim Miller got into the household, and remember, it's always the outsider who sees clearly. It's not the people in the household who knows what's happening. You're right. So you're saying that George was further along in understanding what was going on than Cindy. I'm just transfixed with Tim Miller's recounting what he recalled. And then after Alexis during this time, give me a nutshell. We've got to go back on how she led police on the wild goose chase culminating at Universal. So Casey is finally Cindy has called the police.

They are involved. This this is not any that she's not buying Casey's lies anymore that Kaylee's on a boat or she's with friends or she's with a nanny in a park. She has now involved the police. Finally, 30 days later, 30 days after the last time she saw her granddaughter alive. But she didn't know. Wait a minute. All this time, she didn't know she was gone. She just knew that Top Mom had her.

Right. When she finally, when it all culminated and Top Mom tells the lie that Zenaida Gonzalez, her pretend nanny that she made up, sadly, there is a woman named Zenaida Gonzalez that nobody will hire now. She tells the grandmother, Cindy, that Zenaida, the babysitter, has run off with the baby and she's been privately trying to get her back. I guess by hanging out at Fusion nightclub on the stripper pole. But that's another can of worms. So Cindy calls police, and the 911 call we just heard, and it all cracks wide open. Police get Tot Mom and ask her to retrace some of her steps and what happens, Alexis.

So she tells them that she, you know, has been going to work every day at Universal Studios. And they say, well, let's go there. Let's see your office. And she takes them. They go. She has two police officers. They go to Universal Studios. And the interesting thing is that Casey doesn't work at Universal Studios.

But Universal, of course, lets the police in because they're trying to help out an investigation. And Casey's literally like leading them down a hallway of part of Universal Studios. And she finally turns around to them and confesses, well, you know, I don't actually work here. She has taken them to a theme park, you know, to this huge family entertainment place. And Universal lets them in to help out the police and then she has to confess well you know what we can't really go through any more doors because i don't work here i don't know what i'm doing here insane it's amazing to me ashley wolcott

what she takes what a set of cojones okay because she is in the car with the police she takes an universal. She tells the security guards, hey, I work here. And they're like, well, we don't have you unless you guys. Oh, well, blah, blah, blah. And they get through security because she's with the cops. Then the cops, they know she doesn't work there. They're seeing what's going to happen.

She gets in the building. They get out of the car. They get in the building. They walk all the way down the hall. They walk to where she, she's still lying. They get all the way inside to where her so-called cubicle should be. And she goes, okay, you got me. I don't work here. Like it's some kind of a joke, right? Lie after lie, after lie, after lie, which is exactly why I believe she's completely lying about what happened to her daughter. She knows she killed

her daughter and she has no remorse. She has no ability to even care that she's lying and is caught in the lie. It's really unbelievable, again, unfathomable to any person that she's doing this. And this is while she knows her child is missing. And she's focused on lying about where she works. It's really unbelievable. And she maintains the lie. This is the crazy part. You know, that scares me. You know, I'll say, Lucy, did you brush your teeth? Yes.

I go in and feel the toothbrush. It's bone dry. Bone dry. I'm like, Lucy, did you brush your teeth? Yes. And she actually likes a little indignant that I keep asking her. I'm like, Lucy, I had brush your teeth? Yes. And she actually likes a little indignant that I keep asking her. I'm like, Lucy, I had to pay over time for those braces. And I am not having those teeth right out of that mouth.

And she looks right at me and says she finally, after intense grilling, she finally will say, okay, I'll brush my teeth. But back to top mom, how can she keep up the lie as they're walking down the hall at Universal? And I think you bring up a really good point. Lucy is doing what is age appropriate as a 10 year old girl, because they learn then not to lie. And it's part of the development of a child. It is like this mother, though, never grew developmentally. Listen from the onset. She storms out of the house with her child because she's mad. She acts like a child and she lies and she lies and she gets caught and she still lies. It's like she is stuck in a little 10 year old mind. And she it's unbelievable. She's an actual adult, the mother of a child you'd never

know it from her behavior what amazes me to tim miller with texas equi search who i don't even want to know how much money you lost bringing a team horses the works trying to find this baby man man man man when i think back on those those days and you out there tromping through the woods day after day after day at that headquarters, what amazes me is, okay, everybody lies here and there. It happens. And I'm not proud of any lie I've ever told. I'm not proud at all or trying to explain it away but the way that she can maintain the lie even as they're walking down the hall at universal until she finally there's nowhere to go she confesses

what was your experience with her day in day out as you were out there trying to find the baby well i've seen firsthand how she's capable of storming out. That's what she stormed out after George Hammond removed the pencil. We had over 4,200 people show up from all over the country on that search. We were probably three feet away from little Kaylee's body, but that's when the water was high because we've got to remember that tropical storm came in after Kaylee disappeared. And I remember going to John Allen. I said, John, I said, you know what? I think we need to suspend the search at this time, because if little Kaylee is under the water somewhere,

and an ATV drives over, a person steps on her, a horse steps on her. You know, we're going to make this far more difficult. We're going to destroy evidence. That's one of the best calls that I ever made. I mean, one of our members actually has pictures that John Allen got when we were searching in that exact area where little Kaylee was found. And, of course, as we know, she wasn't under the water for a period of time. When the water went down, guess what?

Little Kaylee's body was found. And probably one of the only civilians that went behind the crime scene tape and went up to that area. And then I'll never forget, the detective said, listen, we need to get out all your forms and see who was in this immediate area. And, you know, the search was difficult. It was emotional. We spent $117,000.

I filed that suit against Casey. We came up to an agreement, finally, that if she ever got any money, that she would pay $75,000. But I don't care if Casey Anthony gets $20 million. We'll never get 75 cents. It all culminates with a 911 call from an innocent meter reader who was immediately thrown under the bus by so many. Roy Cronk outworking spots Kelly's body

just 10 houses down from the Anthony home. The 911 call. There was something round and white underneath of it. And I don't know what it is, but it just didn't look like something that should be there. There was a swamp area that I saw something that I called in and said the other day, and they said there was a dispatcher officer out to me when I got there, and I'm here. Roy Kronk finds Kelly's body in a wooded, quasi-swampy area. Tim Miller, wasn't it in the vicinity behind one of the schools

where top mom Casey Anthony used to hang out and go smoke? Yes, it was in an area right by the school. It was the area that we were interested in. It was an area that we really could search effectively at that time because of the high water.

Undoubtedly, we would have found a little body if it wasn't for the water. You're right. Take a listen to what Roy Cronk says. I called that night about 9, 30, 10 o'clock, and they said okay. And then nothing happened. No one called me back.

I called them again the next night about 9, 30, 10 o'clock. They told me to call a crime line. I didn't want to call a crime line. I just wanted to stay call a crime line. I just wanted to stay as anonymous as possible. And so I called crime line and they said they'd have an officer meet me out there. So the next day when I got off work, I drove over there. I called. The officer showed up. He pulled his experimental metal baton out, went down to the water's edge. I pointed in the area. it was at. He just

swept his head back and forth and said, I don't see anything. And pretty much that was it. I had to go to the bathroom. So I went in there and I looked over and I saw a shape that didn't look quite right to me. And when I pulled the bag up, I basically looked down and there it was. Except there was no water there this time because it all dried up. No good deed goes unpunished. I mean, all the speculation that there was, like, tips and all, nobody tipped me off. I figured this out by myself. That's meter reader Roy Cronk, much maligned, but he is the one that once the water subsided following those tropical storms and hurricanes, he's the one that actually found the body just down the street from the Anthony home.

I mean, think about it. Think about it. What killer in his right mind would get the body, wrap it in a blanket out of the baby's room with some of her belongings in there, put in a trash bag from the Anthony home, go a few houses down and dump the body. I mean, clearly it's someone within the area. For instance, in the Robert Blake case, the murder weapon was thrown away near the body because the killer couldn't get away from the scene. That's what happened here. Okay. Thinking back on what went wrong at trial, we've thought

about it and thought about it. You know, just recently, taught mom Casey Anthony gave an interview to the AP. And in that, what really happened to Kelly? And you know what she said? I really don't know. The last time I saw her, she was alive and well. That's not what they said at trial. At trial, they suggested that George Anthony fished the child out of the swimming pool and said he would dispose of the body. We've shown you today through what Tim Miller says that George, and you can see this in those jailhouse recordings where Top Mom screams at him when he tries to find out what happened to Kelly. George didn't know where Kelly was, nor did Cindy.

The only one that knew was Totman. Then, in just no time at all, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, she tells AP, when I saw her, she was fine. She was alive. She still can't keep her story straight. The line goes on and on. Do you remember the jailhouse phone call when Cindy calls her up and is trying gently to get Casey to confess where Kaylee is. And then Casey goes, Mom, Mom, I just want to know about Jesse Grunt. All she wanted to do was talk about her boyfriend. She didn't want to talk about where Casey was.

You know, the line has a very particular quality to speak to what Tim Miller said about the fact that she probably didn't just drive around and then leave the body in the car, hoping that it would be impounded so that there was a place to sec lacks an awareness of what's happening to her. She lacks big picture thinking. She does whatever it takes to feel good in the moment. Right. What's been speculated so often is what went wrong at trial. Tim Miller, Texas EquiSearch, what went wrong? Oh, I think when Jose Baez's opening statement, when he said that the reason Casey never reported Kaylee missing, because she was never missing, she drowned in a swimming pool.

And then when they said that George had something to do with it, I don't even know how they allowed that stuff. There's not an ounce of truth in any of it. I don't think I'm the stupidest jury that ever walked the face of the earth to start with. And I don't know. I just took my head in the south when they came up with it.

They're not guilty verdict. But I think going back to George and Cindy with all the things that were going on in the house, you could only imagine grandparents that are literally raising their grandchild, and then they know their daughter had something to do with it. And I think that denial set in. How could this be happening? And I think any household would have been the same. And everything went wrong in this case.

You know, it was a cold case before it even became a missing person case. So, you know, detectives had to catch up on 30 days and all the lies, even the work studios. And I think it's pretty obvious that George was certainly frustrated being a police officer, and this is not the first wife that Casey ever sent in her entire life. I can guarantee you that. I think that she's been a compulsive liar her entire life and lived in such a delusional

world, I think at times she even believed her old lies. It's hard to believe that we are here now today, the 10-year mark of little Kaylee's death and disappearance. It's a message to all of us to be ever vigilant, ever loving, and ever caring toward not only our children, but the children all around us. And when you're a dear, how much I love you. When you don't think

and just don't go away. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the Internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder.

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