Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - New hope for families of 8 murdered along Virginia's Colonial Parkway

Episode Date: July 27, 2018

At least eight people murdered along Virginia's historic Colonial Parkway starting in the late 1980s are believed to be the victims of a single killer who is still uncaught. But new evidence is giving hope to family and friends of the victims. Nancy Grace discusses the case with Bill Thomas, brother of Colonial Parkway serial killer victim Cathleen Thomas, Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum, Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, and CrimeOnline.com reporter Leigh Egan. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. today at P.I. Magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for your special discount at P.I. Magazine dot com. Subscribe today. Use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo code Nancy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. A serial killer stalking Virginia along the Colonial Parkway. Still no resolution. Who? What? Where? Why? When? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. How has a serial killer managed to elude law enforcement?

Four couples, eight people that we know of, dead? As a result, at the hand of the Colonial Parkway killer. With me, Bill Thomas, the brother of serial killer victim Kathleen Thomas, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, renowned L.A. psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, and CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Lee Egan. Let me first start with Bill, whose sister Kathleen lost her life to this Colonial Parkway serial killer. Bill, what is the Colonial Parkway? Well, thanks, Nancy. The Colonial Parkway is a national park. It's a beautiful 23-mile-long ribbon of land that was created by the National Park Service to create the feel of an old-time highway.

And it connects the historic sites of Colonial Williamsburg, Jamestown, and Yorktown. And you say it's beautiful. Why is a serial killer named Bill Thomas after the Colonial Parkway, this beautiful stretch of road? Well, sadly, two of the four double homicides, including my sister Kathy Thomas and her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski, two of the double homicides happened on the Colonial Parkway, and then the other two murders of couples

happened in other Lovers Lane situations, about a half an hour in either direction from the center point, which would be the Parkway. And newspapers and the media named the case some 30 years ago, and they began calling it the Colonial Parkway murders. Wow. Okay. What I don't understand is the M.O. to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You know, it sounds a lot like son of Sam's M.O., David Berkowitz, who would target people sitting in cars and just with no connection to the victim, didn't know them before, didn't have a grudge,

wasn't angry about something that happened in the neighborhood or at work, well, just unload, shoot them dead. And that's the hardest kind of case to solve when there is no known connection between the victim and the killer. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It's got a very Son of Sam feel as well as Zodiac, very spontaneous, just, you know, there's no rhyme or reason for it. There's no clear motive. There's no confirmed signs of like robbery or rape. It looked like he literally stopped them, watched them, and then approached them and killed them. Let's talk about serial killer victim Kathleen Thomas. Bill, tell me about the moment you discovered Kathleen was dead.

Well, for me, it started on a Sunday. I got a phone call. I was at my apartment in Philadelphia. I was working for RCA Video back then. And the phone rang. It was my mom and dad calling from Lowell, Massachusetts, up near Boston, where my family's from. And it was both my mom and dad on the phone. And they sounded so serious from the word go. It wasn't unusual for me to hear from them on a weekend. And usually the calls were fun and just, you know, family updates for kids. I'm the second oldest, but my folks sounded so deadly serious from the word go. And I remember the first thing my dad said is, are you sitting down? And I remember thinking, what a weird thing to say. And then my dad began telling me, he did most of the talking. And he began by telling me that

my sister Kathy had been found murdered along with her girlfriend, Rebecca Dowski, in her car on the Colonial Parkway. And so I just sat there and listened and asked questions as they laid out what they knew. We knew it was an FBI case right from the beginning, which we thought was a good sign because it was on federal property. But they weren't 100 percent sure at that point exactly what Kathy and Becky were doing there. But the car had been discovered that Sunday along the York River. It had been somewhat obscured from the parkway itself by being pushed down an embankment. So they actually thought they'd been there for several days. And he walked me, what we knew. And it occurred to me years later

that, you know, back then, uh, the only way you could get ahold of somebody was either call them at home or call them at work. That was it, no cell phones. And it occurred to me later that my parents had to make that same difficult call three times in a row. First to my older brother, Richard, then me, and then my younger brother Jack in New York City. And, you know, I was thinking about how difficult that had to be. I'm analyzing this as we go, Cheryl McCollum. So you have not just the murder, but the murders, a double murder, but also trying to cover up the murder by pushing the vehicle over an embankment. Now, that's interesting, and I'll tell you why, Cheryl.

Because if it's a random killing, typically there's a motive like a theft, a sex assault, anger, revenge, and the person hits and leaves. Now, if it's random, there's no prior connection. But the fact that the killer took so much time to hide the crime scene suggests not random. Take a listen to what Special Agent Irv Wells says. Both young women's throats were deeply cut, their heads almost severed. Diesel fuel, as has been reported, was poured over the bodies and attempts were made to ignite it.

The totality of those circumstances made us start looking at possible watermen. It's also my opinion that there had to be two killers because these vigorous young women fought back. It's my personal opinion that the killers in the Dowski-Thomas case were not the same as the others. I find that very hard to believe that you've got essentially the same M.O. along the same stretch of scenic highway and they're not connected to Dr. Bethany Marshall, a renowned psychoanalyst out of Los Angeles. Bethany, weigh in on the mode of murder.

Well, here's what I think. The person who perpetrated this was acting out of the part of the brain that is not responsible for white-hot rage. White-hot rage is part of all mammal brains. It's like, you've stepped on my territory. You've taken something from me. I'm enraged out of all mammal brains. It's like, you've stepped on my territory. You've taken something from me. I'm enraged out of our attachment system. You've gone over the edge, and now I'm going to protect myself in some way. That is not the MO for this killer. The MO is cool, cold-blooded, predatory murder. This comes from the part of the brain of sort of the lion that's out

in the savannah and the springbok runs by and he just grabs the springbok for lunch, doesn't even think twice about it. Yummy lunch, doesn't think about the ruthlessness of having killed the springbok. So this guy, because most serial murders are men, as we know, this was deliciously satisfying in some way to perpetrate murders on couples. Why couples? I'm not quite sure. Maybe there was some significance of the sexuality or the romance or two people being together caught his imagination.

But I imagine that the slicing of the neck, the rope burns around the first couple's neck, the placing of the bodies, that there was something methodical, ritualized, and sort of exciting and fun. It might seem like a strange word to use, but it failed to unite. I think there was some sort of haphazard attempt to cover up this crime so that he could go on and eventually commit another one undetected. Joining me also, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal Case Research Institute. Cheryl, what about it? I agree completely that there was an attempt to cover it up. By using diesel fuel, though, he made a mistake by trying to ignite it with a match, which diesel won't do with such low-level heat.

And then he pushed it into these bushes going toward the water, again, trying to conceal the crime. So he either wanted more time to commit other crimes or more time to get away or just wanted to go undetected completely. But this crime scene, starting with Kathy and Rebecca, had such a level of rage, Nancy, the strangulation could have killed them. Cutting their throats could have killed them. Setting them on fire could have killed them. I mean, he used different methods at the same scene.

So that level of rage should be really clear. I'm looking at who the victims are, Cheryl and Dr. Bethany. With me also Bill Thomas, the brother of Kathleen Thomas, who was a victim of the Colonial Parkway serial killer, and Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Let's look at who the victims are, okay? Number one, Kathleen, just 27 years old, was actually a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy. You know how hard it is to get into the Naval Academy?

I mean, for over a year, Cheryl, over a year, almost two years, actually, the family that sits in front of us at church, and there's several of them, I think there's five or six of them, were trying to get their oldest boy into the Naval Academy in West Point. Anyway, I know the Naval Academy was in there. Oh, my stars. What that family had to go through. You have to get politicians involved

to write recommendations. And, oh, my, all A's. Pass this test. Do that. Do this. Be an Eagle Scout. The works. This girl had actually graduated

from the U.S. Naval Academy. I mean, she was not, you know, so often, and this is wrong, but I've experienced it and seen it happen to other murder victims' families. The rest of the world looks on them like, well, what were you doing wrong? It was your fault. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time you were partying late you were drunk you were doing drugs you were this you were that no this is a naval academy graduate Kathleen Thomas 27 years old with her life in front of her and her friend Rebecca just 21 now interesting their bodies were found Columbus Day weekend. Later on, we have the

Colonial Parkway Killer striking again around Labor Day. What does that tell me? That tells me he, we know it's a man, is off work. That's significant. That means, most likely, he has a job. See, that means a lot to me because I'm getting a profile of who the perp is, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Well, not only does he have a job, but there is some possibility that he has a family. That's the scary part because we know a lot of these serial killers. There's this idea of the guy in the black trench coat lurking in the shadows, but a lot of these serial killers there's this idea of the guy in the black trench coat lurking in the shadows but a lot of these stories we covered the perpetrator has actually been a family man middle-aged beacon at a church of family vehicles you know three kids and a dog so i think it's a mistake to just you're're killing me, Bethany. I'm dying right here because you know who that sounds like.

It just brings to mind BTK. BTK. Bind, Torture, and Kill. Dennis Rader was a dog catcher with a family, with children. He held down this municipality job for years while he was murdering people left and right. Nobody suspected. That's what I'm thinking about here. Let's go out to the lines.

Joining me right now, Joe from Boca. Hi, Joe. What's your question? The question really is, with Kathleen's background, graduating from the Naval Academy, were there any signs that she tried to fight anybody off, to fight the killer off? Good question. Hold on, Joe.

Stay right there. I know this. The autopsy report tells me that there are rope burns on both the young lady's necks and wrists. Interesting. Why on the wrists? Were they trying to fight back just like you're saying, Joe from Boca? Why would they have rope burns on their wrists? There were signs of strangulation, but their throats had been slashed.

Diesel fuel poured over their bodies, but the car wouldn't ignite, as Cheryl McCollum described. Their purses and money in the car car so it wasn't a theft. It looks, in answer to your question, Joe, that Thomas, the Naval Academy grad, struggled with her attacker. A clump of hair was found between her fingers. Now, that clump of hair, whose is it? Is there any way through Ancestry.com or all the many other genealogy websites, can we track the guy?

That technology wasn't around when these first started happening. Both women fully clothed. So no robbery, no sex assault, as Cheryl pointed out. So what's your motive? Let's talk about did they fight back with me? And Bill, I hate to put such blunt questions to you, but I want to know about the Colonial Parkway killer, a serial killer who has claimed multiple lives

and it's never been solved still to this day, stalking Virginia. Bill, what do you know about whether your sister and her friend tried to fight back? Well, from what we're told by the FBI, Kathy definitely put up a struggle. And one thing that's probably worth mentioning, both Kathy and Becky are fairly tall, you know, 5' seven or so very athletic women in top physical condition. And Kathy had taken martial arts training at the Naval Academy. She definitely knew how to take care of herself. As a matter of fact, I remember her jokingly with her three older brothers and my parents showing us at Thanksgiving one year, all the things they learned in martial arts training

at the Academy. I would not, despite the fact that I probably outweighed her by 50 pounds back then, it would be more now, I don't think I actually would have wanted to take Kathy on in a real fight because she was very tough and athletic and, you know, toned and conditioned. And from what we understand from her autopsy and talking to the experts, she did put up a significant fight. And she had tearing on the webbing of her hand

where she probably put her thumb underneath the rope that was put around her neck, you know, trying to pull it away. So she clearly struggled. And from the cuts and bruises, you know, there was some sort of struggle before he assumed ultimately control over both women. That's hard to subdue two athletic, physically fit women. Very difficult to do. How did it happen with me? CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Lee Egan. Do you think, Lee, does the evidence suggest that he got into the car?

Was the car parked? Was the car moving? Had they stopped to pick somebody up, a hitchhiker by chance? What do we know, Lee, about the mechanics of how he got to them? Well, what I'm hearing, Nancy, is that he walked up. This is just a theory at this point, but he walked up and he may have been posing as a park ranger or a law enforcement officer because they found Kathleen's driver's license out of her wallet and sitting there as if maybe he came up in and asked

for her ID. And that's how that threw them off. And then I also think that they found like some kind of hair in her hand as if she was pulling it. Yes, that's what I just mentioned, that there was a clump of hair in her hand. Lee Egan, you're absolutely right. Is it the perp's hair or her hair? It's not her hair. I know they did DNA testing and it was not her hair. So I'm assuming it's probably going to be the perps. Got to be the killer's hair. Now that puts a whole nother layer on it. To Cheryl McCollum, you know who posed as a cop, Ted Bundy.

That was one of his things. Absolutely. No question. And very similar to Bundy, he evolved. So Bundy went from strangulation to bludgeoning to, you know, attacking people at night to snatching a 12-year-old girl off the street in broad daylight. This killer seems to be doing the same thing. So at Kathleen and Rebecca's scene, it's overkill. At another scene, he's shooting people.

So again, as he's evolving, as he's changing, it tells you he's finding what works best for him. Yeah, and Cheryl McCollum, I mean, I've prosecuted many serial killers, spree killers, and it helps. Yes, it does. If the M.O., modus operandi, method of operation is always the same. I know you remember the red rapist case I prosecuted in Atlanta, and his MO always the same. It was him, whether I had DNA or not. It was such a fingerprint crime. You knew it was him.

So if I could prove one, I could prove the other based on MO alone. Here, eh, not so much. But what unites them all is the colonial parkway, the fact that it's always along this scenic drive in virginia that it's always couples they're always connected to or in a car it's always around a certain time of day and now we're identifying us all very often around a holiday weekend all extremely significant and to identifying who the serial killer is he still remains at large did you know about a recent law that could leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find if you've turned on the news

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front seat was pulled forward. My dad thought maybe he had just went off with some friends and left his car there. Or either they had walked down to the beach. And he said that, you know, that is not like him to do something like that. I get a phone call from my mother, and she sounds kind of frantic. And she said, Joy, you got to meet me down at the parkway. Park rangers called, and they that keith's car is down there and so i jump in the car and i'm going across a bridge and i get this terrible feeling in my gut and i come around the corner and i see this yellow caution tape blocking the entrance to

where his car was they were all walking hand in hand, trying to find if there were any bodies in the water. What was really strange was some of Keith's clothes, his underwear, his watch, his eyeglasses, Cassandra's wallet and a bra and one shoe. They weren't in there when my dad stopped the first time. That would have freaked him out. That's something he would notice. That is so bizarre. The story that Keith called Sister Joyce Call Canada, describing the day her brother Keith's car was found. That is chilling chilling the way the car was left to Bill Thomas. What does she mean by the fact

that those items, including the wallet, the watch, the girls underwear, and some of her clothing were not in the car the first time he looked at it? Were those items later placed in the car? Well, what Joyce is describing is a situation where her father, who's since passed away, he's Richard Call, which is what, and Keith is also Richard, goes by Keith, his middle name. Mr. Call is on his way to work at the Bush Brewery. He normally drives the Colonial Parkway on the way. He notices Keith's very distinctive Toyota Celica parked on this little pull off next to the parkway. It's, it's completely impossible to miss. He, Mr. Call pulls over and notices the door is somewhat ajar and that Keith's car is there, but there's, there's no one inside. He, according to Mr. Call, he stopped, he called

out for them, uh, looked around, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. And then ultimately, you know, kind of gets it into his head. Well, you know, kids will be kids. They must have gone off with some other friends. So he heads off, this is early morning, the following morning, he heads off to work, but he swears that nothing seemed out of the ordinary and that he looked inside the car. Now, a couple of hours later, when National Park Service rangers are investigating the scene and realizing they're dealing with a missing persons case, this couple are nowhere to be found. They say that there's the clothing that Joyce described. And Mr. Call was troubled by this to his death, saying he never would have continued on to work

had he seen those items of clothing and the shoes and so on. So there's this disconnect. Some of the reporting recently seems to have highlighted the possibility that National Park Service rangers may have removed the clothing and other items the crime scene a second time by going back and placing the articles of clothing back inside the car. Okay, that sounds fantastical that they would take the items out and then go back and put them back in. I'll tell you where it takes my mind, Cheryl McCollum, wrong or right. In light of what Bill Thomas told me, Kathleen Thomas' brother, wait, maybe it was Lee that told me, that her, Kathleen's driver's license was out, as if she had taken it out of her wallet when a cop pulls you over and says, license registration, you take out your driver's license.

And now we see movement of crime scene evidence within the car, and then it's mysteriously back in the car. My mind races to the question, is it a park ranger? Absolutely. Several of the scenes, Nancy, the to the question, is it a park ranger? Absolutely. Several of the scenes, Nancy, the driver's side window was rolled down. In a couple of scenes, the glove box is open as though someone is getting their registration, their insurance, and their driver's license. Again, the wallets were open.

So it does lead you to think that. That's another reason how you can easily get somebody out of the car. If you are approached by a police officer that says step out, you've got one person out of the car easily. And if you handcuff that person or ban them, then it's easy to go get the second person. Bill, I want to go back, if you don't mind, to your sister Kathleen. Were both her and her friend Rebecca's bodies in the vehicle? They were. They're the only case of the four where the bodies are found with the vehicle.

Kathy is in the way back, as we used to call it, the hatchback area of their 1980 Honda Civic. So, you know, those were pretty small cars. And Becky's body was on the diagonal in the back seat with her feet extending toward the passenger door. And as I mentioned, both of these women are pretty tall. We're not talking about, you know, five foot tall, 95 pound women. We're talking, you know, five, seven, five, eight. So just the idea of, you know, squeezing Kathy into that hatchback area and then Becky into the back seat. They think the murders themselves took place outside the car and then the bodies were placed

inside the car before, um, he, he moved the car. And in all of the examples, they think that there's movement of cars post-mortem that the, umem, that the killer is moving the cars and maybe even staging the cars to create certain impressions. Well, another thing that tells me to Dr. Bethany Marshall, L.A. psychoanalyst, is the killer's not afraid of getting caught because they're taking a lot of time. As I always say in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, somebody did not mind kicking back inside the Ramsey house and writing, what was it, a three-page ransom note plus a practice note? I mean, not worried at all. If I broke into somebody's house, I'd be a nervous wreck, thinking they're going to walk in at any moment.

Not the JonBenet Ramsey killer and not the Colonial Parkway killer. They've got time to get the people, pull the people over, get them out of the car. In this case, put the two women back in the car, move the car. They're not worried somebody's going to spot them. Why? What does that tell you, Bethany? But Nancy, it starts prior to that with the procurement of a park ranger uniform. I mean, this is ritualized and time consuming from the get go.

This person has to go get a uniform. I mean, that takes time. Then they have to troll the parkway, finding the right victim. Unless they already have one, unless they already have a uniform. Think about it. That's actually a really good point. Go ahead. Or in terms of time consuming, they became a park ranger because the fantasy of killing was already in their mind. I mean, the seeds of this were fomented over many years of the perpetrator's life, and they finally got the courage to do it.

And I think that whoever did this loved toying with the victims. The analogy that comes to my mind is a cat with a mouse. If you've ever seen a cat with a mouse, they flip the mouse this way, they flip the mouse that way. There's something cool and predatory and kind of playful about the interaction with the mouse. And it seems, especially with Kathy and Becky, that, you know, there are the rope burns around the neck, then around the wrist, and then there's the slashing of the throat, which also suggests, to your point point that this perpetrator took his time with them. He didn't just shoot them or slash their throats, but there were multiple modalities of aggression against these young women. Joe is popping back up again. Joe, you've heard the story of Keith and his dad and the girlfriend. I know you have an opinion.

What's your question? When they were stopped, the person who stopped them didn't have to be in uniform because there are always police out there. I saw one the other day in an unmarked car having stopped someone on the Sawgrass Highway near where I live. And so a uniform wasn't even necessary. And likely when she reached out to give the person that stopped her her license and so on and insurance, that's when he likely put her in handcuffs or or slipped on a handcuff not metal necessarily but a rope kind of handcuff and that's my opinion but that they were lost

after that you know they they couldn't yeah i mean once that happened it was over. You know, listening to Joe's theory, Cheryl, Bethany, and Bill Thomas, and I'm hung up on all the indicators that this person either was or was impersonating a cop or a park ranger. The driver's license out, the getting them out of the car, the wallets open, the glove compartment open. Now, typically, that would make me think that it was a theft, but no money was taken. So all of that goes toward the people, the victims, quote, cooperating with a park ranger or a cop. Is there anything else to suggest that scenario?

When you're a ranger, you have a large area that is all of yours, and you basically work alone. This person in that 30-mile area could virtually work undetected by anybody, even a supervisor. And I came home with Danny, which was her boyfriend's brother. He was going to help move in with them because they were young and they were living with a rent. They were living with his sister, his older sister. And then she moved out, so the brother was going to move in to help.

And Clint, her boyfriend, had to work that night. So it was Labor Day weekend, and she wanted to come see her family. And since he was coming to Amelia, she said, I'll ride with you. And I think he dropped her off at Mom and Dad's, and he went to his house and got his stuff, gathered his stuff. So it was really late when they left. And Mom, of course, locked her door and told her, you know, don't unlock your door. She always did that, locked her door and told her you know don't unlock your door she always did that locked her doors and when she called me she said Anna never made it

home she called me the next day she said she didn't make it home and you know that in itself set a panic you know with the family because we knew that wasn't the norm for her she was supposed to call when she got back and I don't really remember a lot of the details. It was a lot of phone conversations, a lot of looking. We, we, William and I and my dad, my other sister, we all did searches in the woods and family members. You are hearing Rosanna Savitti giving details about the last time her family saw her sister Anna, Anna Marie Phelps. Now this is what I know about Anna Marie Phelps, just 18 years old. She and her boyfriend Daniel Lauer, who is 21, were found in New Kent County. They were discovered by hunters out in the woods near a rest area along the interstate.

I believe it's Interstate 64, and that runs between Richmond and Williamsburg. Now, Anna Marie had been dating Lauer's brother at the time they went missing. It was Labor Day weekend, and they vanished on their way to Virginia Beach. Their bodies were not discovered for a period of time. They were off a logging road about a quarter of a mile away from Courthouse Road off I-64. There was a rest stop there and at the rest stop, Lauer's Chevy Nova had been found heading in the wrong direction away from Virginia Beach where they were headed. At least one of the bodies, very decomposed, appears to have suffered wounds from a knife. Okay, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, what does this tell you? It tells me again, this killer is evolving. Nancy, if you go back to April

10th with Keith and Cassandra, they were never found. That means they were transported somewhere else and hidden better than the first two. When you get to Annemarie and Daniel, again, this killer is going to make sure his tracks are covered. He has now evolved to the point, not only am I going to transport you, I'll use your car to do it. And they were found, but they weren't found for six weeks. And at that point, there's some evidence they were stabbed, but, you know, a lot of the evidence was gone. Yeah, the evidence is gone after a period of time. To Bill Thomas, brother of Colonial Parkway serial killer victim Kathleen Thomas, what do you make of Anna Marie's death? Well, there's a couple of things that are notable. This is the only one

of the four where it takes place exclusively on the land. All of the other murders, including the second murder of David Nobling and Robin Edwards, they all take place right next to the water and there's an attempt in a couple of those examples to place the bodies in in the water in this example the fourth example with Anna Marie and Daniel they go missing along this wooded stretch of highway on I-64 and are found just a couple of miles away in the woods by hunters. And it, it, the crime scene seems different, but there are a lot of strong similarities again, with the, the odd movement of the car from one side of 64, there are rest stops on both sides of the highway and you can get to from one to the other by walking. Um, but you know, we have this odd detail where the car is found,

you know, it's been swung around on the highway and then headed back in the opposite direction of travel. There seems to be just this effort made to change up how law enforcement investigators would perceive things. And, you know, one odd detail regarding Anna and Daniel's crime scene, his Chevy Nova is found in the opposite direction of travel with a roach clip very prominently placed on the window. And some law enforcement investigators have said to me that that felt like a taunt, that this was something that the killer did to just kind of literally put that in their face as they were examining the Chevy Nova. What do we know, Cheryl McComb, about potential DNA testing by the FBI? Testing, genetic testing that could not have been done at the time.

Well, they're doing MBAT testing, which is they're trying to get DNA off the clothing of the victim. And then with that DNA, they will try to do paravon to try to get a composite of this person, as well as the ancestry DNA on the different sites. So they're going to try to develop all of that to see if we can get an ID of this person. You know, I'm thinking about the MOs. I'm thinking about the location. How do you connect the

locations? And what does it say to you, Cheryl McCollum, where the people are killed? I'm going to go back to being a ranger for a minute and that possibility. You basically work alone. This person could virtually work undetected by anybody. So they had places they could hide. They had places they could sit and watch. So if you've got your truck, Ranger truck, parked up above and you're watching people pull into this lover's lane, it would be easy for you to wait and look down the road. You could see 15 miles down the road. You know nobody else is coming. So if you swoop down at that point to attack, you know you've got at least 20 minutes before another person could possibly get to you. I mean, it's almost an unbelievable watch zone for a killer. You know, the family of Keith Call has been quoted that they feel completely forgotten, that they never hear from law enforcement, they don't even know if anyone is working to solve the case,

that this was Keith's first date with Cassandra Haley when they fell victim to the Colonial Parkway killer. Their bodies were never found. They say that even now, they still have some kind of hope after all this time, that they know inside of their mind that he's not coming home, but that they keep hoping, and that they see on TV and read in the news where other cases are reopened. Why not their? Why not their case, Keith's case? So I'm concerned about the effect this is having on the justice system

when victims feel they're totally left out, that they have no idea what's going on with their case. To Bill Thomas, Kathleen Thomas' brother, what about it, Bill? Well, this is probably the hardest thing of all. You know, we've, over the last eight years since I got more heavily involved in the case, we've gotten very close as a group of eight families. But I remember my father, who's still with us, saying back in 2010 that as difficult as our situation might be, he said very quietly from the backseat of my car while we were driving back from meeting with the FBI, he said, at least we know what happened to Kathy.

I actually think the missing persons aspect of the Carl Haley case is actually, in my opinion, and I'm 31 years into this now, is actually a greater heartbreak because there's always the thought in the minds of family members that maybe someday, somehow, Keith and Cassandra are going to walk back through that door. And I think you're almost better off knowing as opposed to not knowing. What about two more recent murders of two Blacksburg College students? I'm talking about students Heidi Childs and David Meltzler. Their bodies were found being shot dead, and many people believe that there is a connection to the Colonial Parkway Killer. They were found at Caldwell Fields near the Jefferson National Forest property.

That's about 12 miles, 15 miles from Virginia Tech. Now it's a common area for hikers to go to. There's hardly any cell service. We don't know exactly how many shots were fired, but we do know there is talk that these more recent murders could be connected to the Colonial Parkway killings. That would mean the killer is back in action. Response, Bill? It is possible that the Childs Metzler murder could be related, and there are other murders of couples and individuals that could be related to the Colonial Parkway murders. There are things about the Childs Metzler case that that do remind me of the Colonial Parkway murders.

It's probably also worth noting. I don't remember which set of parents it is. It's not critical, but one of their parents is an investigator for the Virginia State Police. Again, I don't know that that's pertinent, but there are a lot of things about the circumstances of how Heidi and David were killed that do remind people of the Colonial Parkway murders. What do you make of it, Dr. Bethany Marshall? You're the psychoanalyst. Well, it's so interesting to me that these are all young people educated in the prime of their life. They're couples. Cheryl McCollum talked about a literal watch zone where this perpetrator could watch down onto Lover's Lane.

And I think about all the serial murders we've covered where they target family constellations of some sort, like BTK. He targeted mothers and young children as well as entire families with young children. Pedophiles, it's a different type of crime, but they target entire families. This perpetrator targeted couples in the prime of their life. So what is that about? Is it, as you said earlier, a type of couple envy? Is there something about the emerging sexuality between a young couple? And the serial killer is also a voyeur. So there was a watching component to all of this. You know, is there the M.O. also bringing the couple under his control?

One couple was found on the bank of a river. One was stuffed back into their car. Did he want to control them in some fashion, like I said earlier, like a cat with a mouse, you know, for minutes or hours on end until he finally killed them? But I think there's something about the interplay between two young people who possibly have some sexual relationship with each other, that this perpetrator wanted to insert himself into that dynamic, either by watching it, controlling it, or quite possibly destroying it so that they could not enjoy what the couple had created for themselves. You know, another issue, Cheryl McCollum, I want to revisit

that it is someone within the Rangeranger division, within the police department or sheriff's department or an impersonator. What can you tell me? How do you connect these cases together under that scenario? Again, I think you've got somebody that takes great time. They're not in a hurry. They're not worried about getting caught. They may even leave and come back. They stage the crime scene. So so again there's a lot of thought there's a lot of time and they're not worried about being seen so let's say they do have a ranger truck or they're in uniform or they have a police car if somebody were to see them people drive right past that thinking whatever the situation is being handled so that person doesn't

have to worry about and again if they're a ranger, if anybody does make a call, it's going to them anyway. So it's a great setup if that's what's happening here. And, you know, Nancy, now, you know, the Corleone Parkway, you've got the four crime scenes, you've got three secondary scenes, and you've got one secondary scene that was never discovered. So he's either gone back to what he feels comfortable with and feels like, hey, I don't have to hide it anymore. But we do know serial killers do go dormant for a period of time. So it could very well be. Right now, there may be a break in the Colonial Parkway serial killer case. New DNA testing could possibly crack the murders. Relatives of Kathy Thomas are among those confident testing can lead to a break in the murder case.

What about it, Bill? Well, we're hopeful. You know, we recognize that if we have evidence, we've been urging the FBI and the Virginia State Police to move forward, you know, with additional testing. And, you know, we have faith in law enforcement, but it's been slow. It's been a slow go. And I think I can say that at 31 years. But we're hoping that with all of the new advancements in technology, we can finally get some results with some new approaches. If you have any information, whether you think it valuable or not, please call 804-674-2000.

That's the Virginia State Patrol. 804-674-2000. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket? Received a lien from the IRS? Did you forget about an embarrassing social media profile? That info may already be online. Truthfinder can

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