Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - New Kohberger Search Warrants Prove Early Contact With Victims?

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Investigators are looking for a prior connection between Bryan Kohberger and his four murder victims.  Authorities submitted several search warrants to TikTok and Google, asking for user history dating to January 2021 for the three female victms, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20.  The dating app, Tinder, was asked for historyt on Goncalves and Mogen.  Kohberger reportedly followed the three women on Instagram.   Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum, founder of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute and host of Zone 7 podcast discuss what the results of these searches could mean.   In the meantime, reports say Kohberger spends his time behind bars watching news reports about himself.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Brian Koberger, the man accused in the murders of four beautiful University of Idaho students. In the last hours, we learned that the search warrants executed by law enforcement could be more crucial than we could ever have imagined. What do I mean? We learn that law enforcement looking for activity on multiple social media platforms, including TikTok, Google, and Tinder. Did Brian Koberger identify at least one of his murder victims as long ago as 2021. Now, what does that mean? We know that he left DePaul University where he had gotten his master's degree in criminal studies and he traveled to Washington State University after getting accepted there in the Ph.D. program in the same field, criminal justice.

Was a fascination with one or more of the Idaho slave students his reason for traveling over 2,000 miles from home. Guys, thank you for being with us. I'm Nancy Grayson. Joining me is Cheryl McCollum, who was just recently inducted into the Law Enforcement Hall of Fame. She's a forensic expert. She's the star of a hit podcast,

Zone 7, and she is the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. Cheryl, are you surprised? I'm not surprised, Nancy. You and I even talked long ago that law enforcement has got to go back. They work backwards now to see when, in fact,

he first, you know, connected with these victims, first intersected, first cross paths with. They've got to find that out because that's going to add to the timeline. When did he first see a photograph? When did he first email? When did he first, you know, visit with them at the coffee shop or at the restaurant or on campus. You know, I'm thinking about his trek from where his family home is in the Poconos all the way to Washington State University. Think about it, Cheryl. Why would he choose to venture nearly 3,000 miles away to get his PhD.

Why? Now, maybe they gave him a scholarship. Maybe that was the only place he got accepted. I'd want to know all those answers why he chose WSU. It's a fine school. I'm not saying that it's not. I'm saying what motivated him to do that. We learned that TikTok... Go ahead.

I was just going to say, I think that's going to be an important thing when they show how many programs did he apply to? How many was he accepted in? How many times did he visit the campus. Then if he had seen these girls online, he would have to then figure out, well, you know what, I was going to say how to find them, but they made that abundantly clear very innocently and without any guile by posting the lives they were living, their friends, what they were doing, where they were going like everyone does, and geotagging. So he knew exactly where they were, Cheryl. He knew. And again, he knew in real time. All you've got to even do is look on a sorority's website and they'll tell you when they're having day parties, when their formal is,

where it is, what time it is. So you can locate people very easily because their lives are so public now. I mean, look at this timing. We know that Koberger was in the very first weeks of his program. He had just really gotten started in his Ph.D. program. And that means 2021, he wasn't even there yet, Cheryl. Well, not only that, Nancy, it was a quick, you know, succession to when the crimes occurred. He wasn't on campus long before the murders happened.

So, again, this escalated very quickly. And, of course campus long before the murders happened. So again, this escalated very quickly. And of course, the girls were already there. Because remember, one of them had already graduated and had taken a job in Texas and only came back to show her friends her new vehicle, right?

Remember that? So they were there. Oh, that's so heartbreaking. Yeah, they were there in 2021. So did he find them? They were sophomores. Yes So they were there. Oh, that's so heartbreaking. Yeah, they were there in 2021. So did he find them? Yes, they were already there living the life and posting. So let's analyze this thing. In 2021, he was, I guess, looking for Ph.D. programs. He was there at DePaul and then travels all the way across the country. And the reason

we're getting this strand of reasoning is because we now learn that search warrants executed to various social media platforms date back to 2021. They want information all the way back to them. Now, they are looking at TikTok and Google for the three women, Zanna, Kelly, and Madison, and Tinder for Kelly Gonsalves and Maddie Mogan. They're not looking at Tinder for Zanna. And I noticed specifically that they're not looking at Ethan Chapin's social media back to 2021 at all. So what do you make of that? I make of it exactly what you and I said from day one. The targets were on the third floor.

There was no reason once he gained entry to that home that he would go to the third floor first. Men are A to B people. They like an exit route. By going to the third floor, he had no exit. He would have had to traverse back down the steps, passing another bedroom, you know, possibly getting caught, possibly being seen. But when he came in, he made the decision to go upstairs first. And we know that because you've got a witness that heard it. She heard a commotion that she thought was, you know, them playing with the dog or something.

And then she knew the other victim was awake on the second floor because she saw her talking to the killer. So we know that. So why would he enter that home and immediately, without searching, without looking around, go upstairs? Because that was his target. And he already knew the layout of the house. He already knew who was in what bedroom. And so again, law enforcement, working backwards, wants to know when not only did you maybe meet them, but when did you start following them on social media, which we already know he's a stalker. He took those 12 weeks, Nancy, and followed them. They've got him on video.

They've got his phone pinging. They've got him getting a traffic ticket. He was in that area for the 12 weeks leading up to the murders. Cheryl McCollum, Legal Eagles and sleuths have been hypothesizing that possibly Koberger met the girls on a school tour. Because if you go all the way from the Poconos, near New York State, near Pennsylvania, you go all the way across the country to Washington State University, you're not going to turn around and come back that night

after the school tour, right? And even though they're two different schools, he went to Washington State University, they were at University of Idaho, they're 10 minutes apart. When we were there going to every single site that we had heard of as it relates to this case, and then some we found on our own, we drove the distance. A lot of people from WSU come over and go to the Mad Greek, where one of the victims worked, go up and down that. There's a main street where all the stores and the restaurants are. There's just a main hangout areas, a pretty neat area where the Mad Greek is. I could easily see Koberger coming over there

to just look at it, walk it, see what it's like before he decides to go there. And coincidentally, that is where one of the girls worked. You know, when you're in a college town like that, like South Carolina, for example, South Carolina is right there. Well, there's like another private college 10 minutes away. Yeah. Well, they're shared restaurants,

they're shared bars, they're shared, you know, stores. So a 10 minute ride, there was some restaurants that were indicative of what he liked, like the vegan type restaurants, again, a possibility of where he met them because they worked there but it's not a far track at all and you did such a remarkable job because you and i preach you have to drive what the killer drove you have to walk where he walked you've got to see it literally boots on the ground when you did did the first drive-in tour from the apartment to the crime scene, and then you walked and you stayed out in front of the house so that we could literally see where the fraternity house was, where the other apartments were, it was a remarkable shift for me to know that not only was he stalking them, again, he took some exit routes away.

You know, their parking lot is in one way, out one way. And when he got the traffic ticket, again, he's right there. So we knew there was a great possibility that he was going to be on video from the stores and from that other apartment complex. It was an extraordinary job. Well, thank you. I'm just trying to place in my mind everything that I saw there, Cheryl McCollum, with what we're learning now, specifically about the execution of these search warrants. We're learning dating back as far as 2021.

Why? What does that mean? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What does that mean? It suggests that LA law enforcement believes that Koberger was communicating with, or at least trying to communicate with, at least one of these girls long, long before they were murdered. What else do we know? We know right now that Koberger is obsessed with coverage of his own case. We've been told that cable TV charged by the minute Cheryl McCollum and he is glued to his TV while the other inmates all have to share a TV. He has his own. Well, I hope he's watching you and i hope he realizes by watching you how much trouble he's

in and how many doors are closing to his defense they have got so much on him from his phone i guarantee you by now from his computer they're adding to that the social media from the victim. And when it shows that he knew them possibly prior to him going to school there, I mean, that's something a jury is not going to be able to do anything with, but just be shocked and disgusted. Can you imagine him going to one of the sorority or the fraternity parties and just blending in, although he doesn't seem like the kind of guy that could blend in. I mean, you see this guy. The other day I was on my iPad reading about Brian Koberger, and there's that.

Well, there's so many, but there's one photo in particular where he's got on his orange prison suit. He's handcuffed, and he's walking into the jail or the court one or the other he's being escorted by law enforcement and he looks over at the camera that was the picture up on my ipad and lucy just walked by my little girl and went oh my stars look at that death stare and she's just 15 so a death stare then of course john david ran over and started comparing it to other people that he thinks has a death stare long story short even my 15 year old twins said oh creep i wouldn't get near him stay away stay with lucy was saying stay Stay away, Mom. Stay away. So you think he could really blend in at a sorority party? No way.

Zero chance. Not blending in. Zero chance. Okay. How do we get off on him at a sorority party? I think that was my fault. I mean, you know, at a sorority party, can you imagine this guy after a couple of glasses of hooch? Wow.

What we're talking about is hooch juice, which is some horrible blend of something that is like in a vat. I've got a 19-year-old daughter. Wait, what is in hooch? What's in there? It's like grain alcohol and Kool-Aid. It's disgusting. Of course, I'm a teetotaler, but i have seen hooch before at parties what is that can you imagine coberger a sorority party on some hooch get a glass of that and i'll tell you something what he would stick out so bad because not only is he a creep to women men think he's a

creep too and that's rare that men would say say, yeah, there's something up with this guy. You mean that a man would pick up on any nonverbal communication? Is that what you're trying to say? Yes. You know, I say that to my husband all the time. Like, what's wrong with you? And, of course, he's found a way to deflect that, sadly. He goes, everything.

And then that kind of leaves me high and dry. I have nowhere to go after he admits and confesses so i just have to walk off and defeat but like i try to say something like the greatest thing about david's answer is if everything's wrong with him but you picked him yeah i always say you know what david it's my fault you can't help what you are but i selected you but um but i i turned the table on him with that, too. But wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay. We were talking about sorority and the hooch.

Oh, nonverbal communication. You should see this. I'm with the twins, and, of course, John David wants to watch John Wick 1, 2, and 3 to prepare for John Wick 4. And I'm like, no, your dad specifically wanted to watch the National Geographic, you know, the one where the animals fight each other. And I look at David and go, like, I'm making a face like, isn't that what you said, David? Isn't it? And, of course, David goes, what? What?

Yeah, what? The animals fighting each other. National Geographic. Anyway, my point is they don't seem to pick up on nonverbal cues as well as women. I'm not hating and I'm not judging. I'm just putting it out there. Well, I tell you what they're great at. They're great at summing up other men.

That's true. That's really true. They are. You know, and I always wonder why a guy can spot another guy loser a mile away, but women fall for them and marry them for Pete's sake. But, okay, wait. Koberger at the party with a glass of hooch in him. He's still not going to blend in.

But when you say that, okay, wait a minute, back to our train of thought, I blame you for driving this bus into the weeds. Let's get back into the middle of the road. You're right. Because wait a minute, this happens every time I'm alone with you, Cheryl McCollum. Okay. Where we were is that he's creepy. Lucy saw it. John David saw it. But it's not just them. Think about at the restaurant when he would go up, restaurant, bar, he would meet a girl and go, what's your home address? Of course, they ran from that. And to the point where he put off so many women that they asked him to please stop talking to women or just leave and don't come back. Remember,

there's that incident. And then there's the teaching assistant incident where he seemed to pick on women to the point that he was going to lose his teaching assistant position as a PhD student. It's not, oh, and I spoke to a student there and she told me that he had a reputation for being really hard and picking on girls. So if it was just one person saying it, you could discount it. But Cheryl, there's so many people saying it that he was just off-putting.

Nancy. What? I think we've got to be clear though. If you're somewhere and Denzel Washington walks up to you and says, what's your home address? Honey, I'm going to say 16 North Lake Drive. Come on. You may be tempted, but I will do nothing to

lose full custody of the twins. I don't care if it is Denzel Washington. You know, why am I fantasizing with you about Denzel Washington? This is about Brian Koberger and the search warrant and his obsessive watching of TV of himself. It's by the minute you have to pay.

By the minute. And he apparently watches it obsessively. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So we know he's obsessed with watching himself on TV and coverage. We also are learning his family has not visited him at all. What does that mean? Well, they may not be visiting him, but somebody's paying for that TV. Exactly. He's got his mom and them sitting and putting money on his books, or he's got some, you know, unfortunate female that thinks, you know,

he's going to now fall in love with her like they sometimes do. But again, he is focused on himself, which has been his problem since he was about four. And this is nothing unusual. His family probably is not going to make the trip as much as anything. You know, I think his sister has already made some statements. I think his father has made some statements, but they are in a horrible position. They are probably being ostracized by friends and family. They don't know where to go. They don't know what to do with this. I'm sure they want to support him on one hand and think this cannot be true. But on the other hand, they also know what they know. They know he came home

and washed his car for the first time ever. He took the trash out probably for the first time ever. He did dishes, which doesn't make any sense. He's never done that before. So they know he was acting oddly, that he's done some things that have been odd for years. This is not something that's going to catch them completely off guard. You know what's interesting? How many times in a murder case, in other cases, maybe not drugs, maybe not drug cases where you've got a doper in the neighborhood, but I'm talking about person-on-person cases like murder, assault, domestic violence, rape, sodomy, child molestation, person-on-person cases, when you go in the neighborhood, you

hear people say, I know that was a weird dude. That was one freaky guy. And they can never quite put their finger on it, and then they get arrested for a violent crime. Same thing here. All the time. All the time. And it is the same thing here.

Even not just the neighbors if you listen to what his quote friends said about him he was mean to them he would be rude to them he would say things that were off-putting he would say things that were bizarre and vulgar so these are people that are his buddies his cohorts the people he hung out, if the closest people to you, that's how they're describing you, well, there you go. Well, they may not recognize him now because another revelation is that he has lost a ton of weight behind bars. He was already tall and lean, but now he's apparently lost a lot of weight behind bars, and that brings to mind two things. Number one, Ted Bundy, who escaped from jail. Was that his first or second escape, Jackie?

He got small enough to get through a, what would you say, a square in the ceiling. And number two, he's a vegan, or he was when he went into jail, so he must not like the food. I don't want Kroberger escaping. I doubt there's two or three things he can eat a day, and it's not what he's used to. Again, if you look at the places that he frequented, they were nice, upscale restaurants.

That ain't where he is today. And also, the thing about jail is you're surrounded by other people, even if you have a cell by yourself. Right across from you, either side of you, it's loud, it's disgusting, it smells, it's constant. It's not like he's just relaxing and hanging out. This is a completely different world. He went from a college setting where he was a TA, where he was in control. He was revered, he thought. He was smarter than anybody else in the room, to now he's a number. In the months Ted Bundy spent in jail, he consistently lost pound after pound after pound and then had not one, but one of his two daring escapes.

Why is Koberger trying to lose weight? We also understand that he has, quote, found a God behind bars. And it seems as if he gets to speak to a spiritual advisor at will. Sure. And he's going to need them. I think that's one of the best things that could happen. somebody to help him because if he stays alone in that cell and he's talking only basically to himself and he has no parents visiting, no siblings visiting, no friends, nobody, the spiritual advisor can at least hopefully walk him through some of the issues that he's going to be having inside. You know what's interesting? I'm thinking about what you're saying about him allegedly finding God behind bars.

Well, another thing is the diversion because you get to talk to somebody else that's not an inmate screaming at you from the other side of the bars. He may be getting reading material from the advisor. I'm not sure about that, but it's a diversion. I remember very well prosecuting inmates would suggest they were going to enter a plea just to have the trip out of the jail on the county bus to come to the courthouse and be somewhere different than in their jail cell. So for all I know, that's what's happening with his spiritual advisor. It's just a diversion. Hey, we got people that plead not guilty so they can just go to trial to order what they want for lunch. I get it.

You're now stuck there. The reality of what the rest of your life is going to be is hitting you. But I am not going to discount anybody from trying to get right with whatever higher power they might need. Maybe he'll even come to it and say, you know what, I'm going to confess to everything. I mean, if you're really walking that path, then freaking walk that path. You know, Cheryl McComb, I doubt that's going to happen. But I just want to touch one last time on these search warrants. If this were anybody else other than someone like Koberger, I would say no way. Koberger is a whole nother

thing. He is the kind of person that would follow somebody from 2021 to the time of the murders. I could see him doing that obsessively, watching their every move. Could you see that? I can see that. And you remember, you and I have a friend in common that's an FBI agent that said that he taught his daughter not to smile at strangers. Because a stranger could take the wrong message from you smiling at him. And he taught her that all the way through college. He would say, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

Koberger might have got it in his head that somebody liked him, that somebody was his girlfriend, that somebody was going to be the love of his life. And if anything changed, like her moving, her moving out, her going to Texas, whatever prompted him to do what he did, I think, again, came from the third floor. One of the victims wasn't supposed to be there. And again, a strange caller did not deter him from going in,

I think, because he already knew it was her. We wait to find out the return on these search warrants that request information from TikTok, Google, and Tinder all the way back to 2021. And to you, Coburger, behind bars right now having your vegan food. Bon appetit, friend. Goodbye, everybody. This is an iHeart Podcast.