Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NEWBORN DEAD After Mom 'Mistakenly' Bakes Baby in Oven

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Mariah Thomas and her 1-month-old baby, Za'Riah, live with Mariah's parents. Za'Riah's grandparents leave for work just before 8 a.m. on Friday. After 1 p.m., Mariah Thomas calls her mother at work, hysterically screaming something is wrong with the baby. Her mother tells her to call 911. Mariah Thomas reports her baby daughter is not breathing. When Mariah Thomas' father comes home, he smells smoke and runs to the baby's crib. He sees that Baby Za'Riah looks burned. He picks her up, realizing his granddaughter is dead.  Mariah Thomas says she was putting Za'Riah down for a nap and thought she put her in the crib, but accidentally put her in the oven. First responders arrive to treat what they think is an infant who isn't breathing,  but instead, they find the baby with what appears to be thermal injuries on various parts of her body. She is wearing a bodysuit over a diaper, but the clothing appears to have melted onto the diaper and it appears very dirty, possibly burned on the backside. A baby blanket with significant burn marks is found in the living room.  Thomas has been charged for allegedly placing her child in an oven, resulting in the death of the 1-month-old child. Mariah Thomas faces the Class A Felony of Endangering the Welfare of a Child in the First-degree, death of a child.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Bernarda Villalona – NY Criminal Defense Attorney & Former Prosecutor, Villalona Law, PLLC.: @BernardaVillalona (FaceBook, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, Threads); Twitter: @VillalonaLaw Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. (voted ‘My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice’ of 2023) Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, and Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Wayne S. Promisel - Former Detective/Sergeant (Special Victims Unit) and Owner of Compass Investigative Services   Dr. Karl E. Williams- Forensic Pathologist, Former Chief Medical Examiner for Allegheny County in Pittsburgh, PA  Paula Rohde -  Child Abuse/Welfare Consultant and Expert and Former Child Protective Services Abuse Investigator; Paula Rohde Consulting LLC; Twitter: @PaulaRohde2  Amanda Yen - Journalist, Breaking News at The Daily Beast See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I Heart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Have you ever accidentally burned yourself? Because the other night, there they are. I burned myself twice in one night cooking dinner and it really hurt you know it takes a really long time for burn marks scars to go away they are some of the most painful injuries that I have ever observed with crime victims. I'm also thinking about my children, John, David, and Lucy, who are now 16, believe it or not, at age one month, how helpless they were. A beautiful little girl, Zariah, is dead. Her body, one

month old, covered in burns. I often see where moms or dads put their child in scalding hot water, believe it or not, unintentionally, not realizing how hot the water in your home for that very reason, because children can't turn the water faucet for themselves. So why is one month old baby girl, Zariah, dead and covered in burns? Not because of accidental scalding. Because her mother put her in the oven to bake. Let it sink in. covered in horrific burns, put alive in the oven to bake. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. I have an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning.

But first, listen to this. Mariah Thomas' mother calls Mariah's father daily about 1 p.m., and Friday is no different. However, when she calls on this day, she tells him something is wrong with the baby and he needs to hurry home. Mariah's father, Zariah's grandfather, arrives at the house before first responders, smells smoke, and runs to the baby's crib. He sees that baby Zariah looks burned. He picks her up, realizes his granddaughter is dead, and asks Mariah what happened. Mariah Thomas says she was putting Zariah down for a nap and thought she put her in the crib, but accidentally put her in the oven. B.S. Technical legal term.

B.S. You put a baby in the oven and turn it on and you thought it was the crib. Oh, H.E. double L.N.O. That's not flying for me. Again, with me, an all star panel to make sense of what we know. And I want to go first straight to Amanda Yen, breaking news investigative reporter at The Daily Beast. Amanda, thank you for being with us. Is it true the little girl's clothes melted to her diaper? Yes, that is true. When the police arrived, a mom that got pregnant when

she was 11 or 12. This is a 26 year old grown woman that I would like to report posted many, many times before the baby was born. Ugh, I'm tired of being pregnant. Blah, blah, blah. Take me up to the moment her father shows up and smells something burning, that something burning would be the baby. What we know is that that morning that this horrible incident occurred, the parents had left Mariah and baby Zariah in the house alone. They all lived together. Mariah and her daughter were living with the baby's grandparents.

And they often left Mariah and the baby at home while the mother went to work, while the father went out to look for work. So this should have been a day like any other. I spoke to one of Mariah's close friends who had been friends with her for years, who told me that she had spoken to Mariah the night before and that Mariah had reported not sleeping well. She was really tired. She woke up and she like just wasn't feeling her best. So when she was home alone, we know that the parents were out of the house, that is the baby's grandparents were out of the house. So Mariah and the baby were left alone. Let me follow up on a few things that you have just said. Joining me, special guest, Amanda Yen, investigative journalist with Breaking News at the Daily Beast. Amanda Yen,

a friend of defendant 26-year-old Mariah Thomas spoke with Mariah Thomas the night before the baby was killed and said that Mariah Thomas, the mother, did not, quote, feel her best. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. Did the friend mention any homicidal ideation, any out-of-control behavior, anything like that at all? Was it a normal conversation except the mom was tired? Nothing in their conversation that was reported to me showed any sign of intent of harming the baby. When I spoke to the close friend, the friend did say that she was shocked. Straight out to special guest joining us, renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Angela

Arnold. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie, we're always shocked. I'm always shocked with every child abuse or child homicide. I'm shocked. I've been doing this since I became a crime victim myself many years ago. I'm never not shocked. And if you ask the neighbor or the best friend or the person that sits beside them at church or synagogue, they're all shocked. All right. Everybody in the drop off in the pickup. I can't believe it. I'm shocked. Yes, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Believe me, I'm using air quotas. I know you can't see me, Dr. Angie, but a lot of nice people torture children and abuse them and hurt them. And in this case, kill them. I think it's a big red,

Jackie, I need a red flag, a big red flag being waved when somebody says, I'm so sick of being pregnant. Oh, it is a big red flag. Why can't the baby come? I mean, yeah, I was tired carrying twins, but I didn't blame the babies. And Nancy, this baby was only one month old. There are several red flags here. First of all, I wonder why this girl was ever left alone with the baby. Number one, she's not a girl. I believe I pointed out to you at the get-go, Dr. Angie, this is a woman going on 30. She is a grown woman. She's 26 about to hit 27. She's not a girl. Okay. Well, you know, Nancy, she's 26 and she lives with her

parents. So? To me, that's a red flag also. Why is a 26 year old who just had a baby living with her parents? Maybe because the parents were helping her. Okay. I mean, my mom and dad came up and stayed with me for months after I gave birth to the twins. And I'm not going to tell you how old I was when I gave birth. But she was living with them. And if they were there to quote unquote help her, then perhaps she should have never been left alone with the baby. You know, Dr. Angie, I really respect you, and I'm very proud for you about your recent honor where everybody in your jurisdiction voted for you as one of the prominent psychiatrists in your area.

But pointing the finger at the grandparents is not working. It's not working for me. They didn't put the baby in the oven. Mommy, mommy put the baby in the oven. And not only that, I mean, help me out here. Wayne S. Promissel, former detective sergeative Services in Leland, North Carolina. Not just put the baby in the oven. You think the baby turned the oven on herself? One month old? Zariah?

No. Mommy had to turn that oven on. How the hay do you think it's a crib when you have to turn it to 350? That is BS. I would agree with you. And a primary focus, other than what we've read in the news links about the crime scene processing, pretty much speaks for how Zaria passed. The focus is on that oven. That is the crime scene. And certainly a police focus and mindset is right away understanding that a defense that's going to come forward very quickly is what you've been, what people are circling around, mental health, this defect, disability versus the intention, which you're stressing,

the conscious actions of turning on the oven, placing the child in the oven, and then living through the pain that you earlier described you went through just burning yourself cooking. Wayne Promissel, can I just stop you one moment, sir? Certainly. And you have a stellar reputation. Thank you. Mr. Promissel, you know what I would force juries to do? The same thing I would force myself to do because it's easy for us to read the headline. Let's see, what's the headline right here that I was looking up earlier? Headline in Daily Mail.

Missouri mom 26 charged with baking her newborn baby daughter to death in an oven, all caps, after mistaking kitchen appliance for infant's crib, leaving tortured girl's clothes melted to her diaper. Okay, I read the headline and I stopped right there. You know why? Promise L? Because I don't want to think about a baby. I almost said my baby, but I can't. I'm not going to go there. At one month, opening the oven, putting your baby on the rack, closing the oven, and cranking it up to 400. And I don't want to think about that baby in the oven as it gets hotter and hotter.

And the baby is screaming, screaming as her clothes melt until she is burned dead. How long did it take? Five minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour? In an oven? I can't even stand a small space. The baby in the oven, screaming, crying, thrashing, melting. Yeah, it's easy, isn't it, Wayne Promissel, to think about, oh, did you hear Dr. Angie?

Say, oh, well, they should never have left the mom there with the baby. That's BS. Think about the baby, Promissel. I hear you loud and clear, Nancy, and I can't disagree with anything you just listed. However, I will say this. I'm not here to provide, nor did I ever try to provide defenses, but my investigative focus, my detective's investigative focus, is gathering that corroboration that leads to the ultimate question. And is this a premeditated and or other type of impairment? I mean, we look at the charge and that's Kansas City's basic charge for the cruelty.

But such other things. Was she actually alone that day? We would need to look. We need to do a thorough investigation, make sure she was, in fact, alone that day. That no mention of the father of this child, not that it comes in because she made the statement. She was there and responsible at the time. So, but police focus, emotions, somewhat detached or focused on grabbing and corroborating the evidence

that supports what ultimately happened to Zariah. Well, you're right. You're right, Wayne Promissel. And that's why you have your own detective agency. You're right. All of those facts have to be analyzed because if I believe that this mother is insane, I would never agree to her having a guilty verdict or a guilty plea. If she is insane, she needs to go to treatment and stay there for the rest of her life.

I don't mean treatment for six months and then get out. I mean treatment for six months. And if you're well, then you go to jail. Well, one thing, if I could, Nancy, I would circle back to what Dr. Angie said in respect to not blaming the parents, but interviews are a very important part. Profile of Mariah's history, very important. So I would just say with respect to the emotionality, is if the parents knew of known diagnoses of Mariah, then Dr. Angie's comment, not blaming the parents, but being cognizant. I'd like to point something out following up on what you're saying. Mariah Thomas, age 26, the mom that put the baby in the oven to die, she's in GP right now, general population. What does that mean to me? That means she has not been diagnosed with any

mental disorder that would preclude her from being in general population. Sidney, could you check that please? I want to make absolutely sure we know nothing about her being on the med ward. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Also joining me is Bernarda Villalona, high-profile criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. You can find her at VillalonaLaw.com. Bernarda, thank you for being with us. I know you're defending now, but is there ever a point during all of your prosecutions, your investigations, and your defending that you don't know whether to be spitting fire mad or just sit down and start crying. So Nancy, even when I went on the criminal defense side, I still said there were certain cases that I would not take. And this is one of

those cases having to deal with the death of a child. Here we have one of the most outrageous type of cases. We're talking about a one-month-old baby that was killed. I have so many questions, and I want to know, what is on her phone? What's the search history on her phone? What text messages did she send? Because we know that she did not give a statement to law enforcement. Hey, you just brought up something really good, Bernarda.

Not that everything you said wasn't good, and you're right, but I want to follow up on that before I go to Paula Road, former DFACS, Department of Family and Children Services, CPS Child Protective Services. I want you to hear this, what first responders find when they get to the home. Listen. First responders arrive to what they think is a call for an infant who isn't breathing, but instead find Mariah Thomas' father holding Zariah. He hands Zariah to a Kansas City Fire Department first responder who determines the baby is dead. Zariah has what appears to be thermal injuries on various parts of her body. She's wearing a bodysuit over a diaper, but the clothing appears to have melted into the diaper and it appears very dirty, possibly burned on the backside. A baby blanket

with significant burn marks is found in the living room. We keep hearing she, the mother, Mariah, 26-year-old Mariah Thomas, did not give a statement. Oh no. It's not because she is comatose with grief. It's because she exercised her Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. You want to tell me this lady's insane? Uh-uh. No. She hears her Miranda rights and goes, yeah, you know what, I'm not talking. Listen. The three adult family members are separated and interviewed separately. Mariah Thomas' parents say everything was normal when they left that morning. Mother and daughter both seem to be in good spirits. According to police records, the mother and father essentially tell the police the same story. But when it comes time for Mariah Thomas to be interviewed, she is advised of her

Miranda rights and invokes her right not to speak. The interview ends, but she agrees to sign consent searches for detectives to obtain a blood draw and access her phone data. Wow. I wonder if she had figured out that cops can get that information with a search warrant. It's just like you can get a search warrant on the phone with a sitting magistrate. So that could be obtained very easily. A blood draw is obtainable with a search warrant. Getting someone's phone is obtainable with a search warrant. You know what's not obtainable?

A statement from the defendant, suspect, target, person of interest. You can't get a warrant for that because you have a right, an absolute right under the US Constitution Fifth Amendment to remain silent and not incriminate yourself. So she is, she's crazy. She's crazy like a fox because she knew to stay quiet once she heard those Miranda rights. Anybody want to jump on that? Because I find that highly, highly suspicious. Of course, at trial, the prosecutor, let's just pretend it's me, cannot argue that in front of the jury because that's a comment on the defendant's right to remain silent. If you mention that in closing arguments or at any time during the case, that's a mistrial.

And it may be with prejudice. In other words, you don't get a second swing at the ball. Don't screw that up. So not only can she remain silent as she chose to do, but that cannot be commented upon at trial by the state or its reversible error. I want to go to Paula Rohde joining me, child abuse welfare consultant and expert, former child protected services abuse investigator. You can find her at Paula Rohde Consulting LLC. And I want to point something else out about Paula Rohde. She wasn't just with Child Protective Services. She was CPS in Orange County,

California. To put it euphemistically, never a lack of business. There are about three million people there and she did Child Protective Services there. I'm telling you, you had your work cut out for you. Paula Rohde, I want to hear your thoughts on this because if she's fine the morning when the parents leave, they're in good spirits, everything's okay. She dressed the baby in diapers and a onesie. What I would say that in terms of looking at this through the child protective services lens, you know, we look at safety and we look at risk factors. And one of the safety red flags, safety threats that I heard is potentially her statement about, I'm so sick of being pregnant. So any type of comments, posting, you know, anything she's expressing to others that describe that baby, that precious little baby in negative terms, in a negative way is a safety threat. In terms of risk factors, what would be an objective appraisal of the likelihood that this parent will maltreat the child.

Can you say that again, please? I got to let it soak in. About the appraisal, what? So when we do a risk assessment. When do you do a risk assessment? Did somebody do a risk assessment on me when I gave birth? Because I was not asking anything that I recall. When are you called in to do a risk assessment?

Well, that's what CPS does when they are involved. But so what I want to speak to is what is the history that, because the risk assessment is all based on historical information about Mariah and the father or even if she's living with her parents, it would look at that whole household. So, you know, for example, have there been prior investigations? What are the number of children in the home? What are the characteristics of Mariah? Does she have mental health history, as we're questioning?

Are there developmental challenges? What is her assessment of what occurred and what is her prior history of any type of cps involvement either as a child or as a parent okay i'm sorry i i don't mean to sound harsh but paula rhodie a baby just got burned alive in the oven. So unless the mother is legally insane, why do I care? I mean, am I the crazy one here? And that's rhetorical. You don't need to answer.

But the baby was placed alive in the oven to burn alive. And another fact, Amanda Yen joining me from the Daily Beast, who's been on the story from the beginning. Isn't it true that when the grandfather, Mariah Thomas's father got home, he could smell something burning and he saw where the baby had been placed in the crib. Like, let's just act like nothing happened. And maybe they won't notice the baby's dead. The baby had been taken out of the oven and put in the crib, right? Yeah. In his police statement, the grandfather of the baby said that he arrived home, ran inside the house,

smelled the smoke inside the house, and then found the baby in the crib with burns dead. But when the first responders got there, where was the baby? The baby was on a, like a car seat near the front door. Okay. So he must have, I'm just deducing that he was going to take the baby to the hospital and put the baby in the car seat. And that's where the baby was. But when the granddad got home, there's only one adult there. The baby had been placed by the mother, we can deduce, in the crib. Yes, no, Amanda Yen. Yes. Joining me right now is forensic pathologist, former chief medical examiner, Allegheny County in Pittsburgh, Dr. Carl E. Williams, who has literally performed thousands of autopsies. Dr. Williams, thank you for being with us.

My pleasure, Nancy. Dr. Williams, how much of your body has to be burned before you literally die from being burned? I mean, how do you die from burns? It's not like your heart shuts down or you can't breathe anymore. How do you die? From burns, you have to remember that the skin, the largest organ of the body, protects everything from fluid balance and things. So you die in a number of

ways to die. But you can die just from the burns themselves destroying the skin. But wait, I don't understand that. How do you die from a burn? How does that make your heart stop beating? Oh, it's secondary causes. Dehydration, infections through the skin, fluid balances all take place through the skin. And again, there are many different types of burns. People that die in fires die of carbon monoxide poisoning, typically, not burns. But for burns, you lose the outer layer of your skin. That's the largest organ of the body. That's what protects you against fluids, against infection. But this baby couldn't have died by infection in the oven. No, this baby dies from hyperthermia. And the exact sequence of events and how,

you will never know. I mean, you can't do an experiment that obviously shows the exact mechanism and things. The clearest thing in this case to me, and it's been since the first I heard about it, this mother is clearly crazy. Okay, now I'm not a psychiatrist. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hold on, boss. You're the medical doctor. Are you a lawyer? And nobody told me. And I'm not a lawyer either so crazy means you don't know right from wrong at the time of the incident i believe and i would argue no that by taking the baby out of the oven and trying to put her in the crib like nothing happened that indicates you know something was wrong at that moment this woman had no idea what she was doing because of the combination of whatever her psychiatric problem is.

OK, and at the moment, I'm sorry, I don't think there's any intent here. She's just deeply, deeply into some form of abnormality that we really don't know yet. Have you interviewed her and made a medical diagnosis as a psychiatrist. I mean, why are you saying that she was mentally disturbed? And it's got to be insane to be a legal defense in this case. So what leads you to say that? I'm very curious just because it's a horrible, heinous thing what she did. It is.

It is. I don't doubt that at all. I don't think she had any idea what she was doing. Why? At the time you say that well first of all let me just say that i talked to a lot of pregnant women that are very tired of being pregnant okay i don't think that has any effect on it whatsoever i'll tell you because it is extraordinarily easy okay to kill a baby okay Smothering is the obvious way. All right. If a woman had any intelligence, any perception, you know, in cases where you kill a baby by giving a mass at Tony, you kill a baby by smothering, you go to the phone and you see queries on all of this. I'm betting you're not going to find anything. You bet. I'm not going to find any what?

Oh, any. Well, I don't think you're going to find a Google search for killing babies in ovens. I don't think you're going to find a Google search for hyperthermia. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, well, I don't think you're going to find a Google search for Kevin Babies and Ovens. I don't think you're going to find a Google search for hypothermia. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that you believe Dr. Carl Williams, that if I ran a Google search, I would not find sane people that did this? I don't think in this case. Hold on just one moment then. Let's take a listen to our cut 12. Our friends at Crime Online, does the name China Arnold ring a bell? Because I will never forget that name. Listen. China Arnold had a baby with longtime boyfriend Terrell Talley, and they named the little girl Paris Talley.

The relationship between Arnold and Terrell was volatile at best, and during a drunken argument, Talley claimed that he didn't believe he was the biological father of Paris. In a fit of anger, China Arnold takes the 28-day-old infant, puts her in a microwave, and turns it on high. After at least two minutes, Arnold takes the baby out of the microwave and puts her on the table. The next day, Paris Talley is cold and stiff when her parents take her to the hospital, where she is pronounced dead. And more from Sidney Sumner on China Arnold.

May she rot in hell. China Arnold was arrested and charged with killing Paris Talley. Medical experts testified that the baby probably was in the microwave for more than two minutes. And Dr. Marcela Fierro, the retired chief medical examiner for the state of Virginia, said of Paris Talley, she died because she was overheated. She was overcooked. It's not just hot ovens. Take a listen to Hour 17. Hours after Troy Kohler is reported missing in Texas, investigators are trying to figure out if he is a runaway or if he was grabbed by a stranger. When his body is found, he never left home. During a search of the property, authorities find the seven-year-old inside a top-load washing machine in the garage. An autopsy reveals the boy suffered from asphyxiation,

blunt force trauma, and possible drowning. His death is ruled a homicide. Troy Kohler has new and old injuries on his body, and investigators uncovered text messages sent to the boy from his adoptive parents, where the mother threatens to put him in the oven and the father threatens to hang him from a tree. His adoptive parents, 42-year-old Jermaine Thomas, is charged with capital murder. His 35-year-old wife, Tiffany Thomas, is charged with injury to a child by omission. There you go. Washer. Well, that's not all. Lakeisha Adams, listen to this.

Lakeisha Adams calls Bogalusa, Louisiana police just before 7 p.m. with an unbelievable story. Sergeant Daryl Darden says the 18-year-old mother of two claims somebody came into her house, placed her three-month-old baby in the dryer, and when she came home to the house, she found her baby and got him out of the dryer. Police find the baby lying on Adams' couch. He is badly burned and has been dead for several hours. Police push for more details, and Lakeisha Adams cracks and admits she's the one who put her three-month-old baby in a clothes dryer and started the machine, tumbling and burning the baby boy until he was dead.

She doesn't say why, she doesn't have to, but she's now being charged with first-degree murder. I've got so many, I can't even get to all of them. Dr. Williams, perfectly sane people that murder their children with ovens, microwaves, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers. Yes. There's one thing that's radically different. All of the stories you've said, and I've got to say that every case you do as a forensic pathology is absolutely unique. It's different from all of the other cases.

Okay. And that's what makes this case different. You don't have all the ancillary stories of fights and other people seeing that they're going to do it or confessions and things. You got nothing in this case. Okay. Except at least at this point, except the fact that she does something that is so completely outside of the ordinary that you can't imagine that she has real

intent to do it. She is deeply embedded in some sort of a psychiatric problem, which obviously I'm not qualified to talk about. But no, this case, for what it is, I felt that from the first time you told me about this case without all of the other details. I knew that she had to have some sort of a psychiatric condition, and I knew she had to be on probably legal drugs. We don't even hear anything about illegal drugs, which are always a part of this. And that's the single most important part to me in this case in terms of the ultimate question of intent. If she intended to kill her baby because she was tired of being pregnant, there are a lot more ways to do it that would not be detected. OK, I think I understand where you're going. crime stories with nancy grace bernarda violona i want your veteran trial lawyer i want to address with dr carl williams who is a pathologist is saying whenever i've had a child homicide.

I wonder why. Of course, the state doesn't have to prove why. Because if you kill your baby, whether you put them in the oven or you throw them out the window or you smother them or you put them in the microwave or the dishwasher or some other appliance, the reality is you killed your baby. And I don't think one child murder is any more or less heinous than another. I've got

these stacks of perfectly sane people that murder their child by appliance. And they are no more or less guilty than any of the other adults that murder a child by starving it, by beating it, by smothering it. This is more rare, but there is no indication at all that this mother was on drugs, had a drug problem. She was fine the night before. She was pleasant that morning. We'll probably never find out why she did what she did. But what I do want to point out to you, Nancy, is that her father, I believe it's her father or mother, are going to be key witnesses in this case because the father or the mother, because it's not quite clear from the complaint, said that she said that they left her fine, that she was fine.

The baby and the mother were fine right before they left the house. Also, what I wanted to point out is that when the father goes to the house, the baby is in the crib. So how is it that all of a sudden you figure out and know where the crib is because that's where they found the baby, but you're saying that accidentally earlier on that you put it in the oven thinking that it was the crib. The parents are going to be key witnesses. I don't want to hear about a psychiatric defense because you don't have it here. Not yet. You're absolutely right. But of course, what Dr. Carl Williams is saying may be echoed in the minds of the jurors. So the state's going to have to address that because in street vernacular, anybody could say,

well, she's crazy. She put her baby in the oven, but crazy on the street does not mean legal insanity under the old McNaughton rule, which was brought over to our country from Great Britain. And it's a very easy litmus test. And that is, did you know right from wrong at the time of the incident? Really simple. And you don't need a lawyer to explain it. But I want you to hear this leading up to the birth. Remember, the baby's only one month old. Everything was fine. The mom seemed excited about having the baby. Listen to Sidney Sumner crime online. Mariah Thomas's baby is due in December and the mom to be is documenting her pregnancy on social media. On August 12th, four months before the arrival of her baby girl, Thomas writes,

Ugh, I'm tired of being pregnant. I wish Zalani came early. This comment is met with several posts of encouragement from friends and followers. In another post, she writes, Got an ultrasound appointment this Tuesday to see Zalani. I'm hella happy. I just love seeing my daughter on ultrasound moving around in my belly. Seems perfectly normal, natural, and happy to me. She can post online regarding her ultrasound. Let's go to cut three from Nicole Parton, Crime Online. After the birth of Zariah, Mariah Thomas continues to remain active on social media, posting pictures of

herself with Zariah together and separate. At times, Thomas Post are excited, and other days, not so much. January 21, she writes, my goal this year for 2024 is to be the best mother I can be to my beautiful daughter, and to stay out of drama, and to get a place for me and my daughter, and for only me and my daughter. Five days later, Thomas posed, I don't have any friends at all, this S-word sad man. And the ones I do got only F with me on their own time. Now, Nicole Parton left out all the curse words. That was, this S-word is sad, man. And the ones I do, the friends I do have only F with me on their time.

Okay. This is the mom that you guys are talking about with all her issues. Isn't it true to Amanda Yen, investigative reporter, Daily Beast, that just before the baby was killed, the mother, Mariah Thomas, age 26, posts a cash app link for people to send her money. Is that true? Yes, that's true. Okay. Dr. Angela Arnold, I think I know what you're going to say since your specialty is, one of them is postpartum depression.

Help me out here. Nancy, as I've been listening to all of this let's not forget we've done these kinds of stories before and we have ascertained when have you ever covered a baby in the oven with me we have covered children babies being killed by their mothers though on several occasions that is true and one of the things and one of the things in a in a recent story that we did which was very important was that psychosis can come and go. A woman can not be psychotic and then be psychotic. From what I see in the story that's being told here, in the events that are being laid out here, the woman was happy to be having the baby, and there was nothing wrong when the parents left that morning.

So why did she all of a sudden kill the baby and there was nothing wrong when the parents left that morning. So why did she all of a sudden kill the baby? What happened from that morning when she was seemingly okay? What do you mean? What happened? You think the baby slapped her in the face and she got back at the baby? What do you mean? What happened before she murdered her baby? What could the baby do?

Cry? Poop its pants? I mean, what's the baby do cry poop its pants what i mean what's the felony what's the what's the um trigger for mom to murder her baby exactly what was the provocation nancy i would say none intents and purposes the baby was everybody was fine and both of her parents left the house thinking that everything was okay before they left. And the next thing you know, she's opening an oven and putting the baby inside of it. And your point is? My point is the baby is one month old.

Okay, could you please say something we haven't already said? I want to know what part mental illness has played in this. Okay, can I ask you something? And this is a yes, no, Dr. Angie Arnold. Okay. Can I ask you something? And this is a yes, no, Dr. Angie Arnold. Okay. Do you have one fact, one fact of prior mental treatment? Do you have one fact about her not being in GP general population in the Jackson County detention center because she's in GP. Do you have one fact that she was talking out of her mind when cops got there? Nothing, nothing. Do you know something that I don't know that Amanda Yen hasn't told us?

She knows everything about the case. What if there are things that we don't know about? Oh, dear Lord in heaven. So bottom line, you don't. Amanda Yen did tell me something. She said that a friend of, oh, by the way, right before, a few days before killing the baby, um, the mom goes online. She's very proficient at online posting and social media. And she says shortly before she killed the baby, motherfuckers claim they my friend, but don't ever check up on me or Zariah. Hmm. Wonder who that could be. Who's the MF she's talking about? The baby's dad? Her friends? Who? Why is she angry? Why is she posting this? Why is she posting online for money and claiming it's for her birthday?

Can somebody tell me that? But Amanda Yen did tell me that a friend said that she, the mom, was mentally ill. Isn't that true? Amanda Yen, you did tell me that. Yes. And if I may add as well, this friend also said that Mariah had been on medication for her mental illness, but that the doctors had told her to stop taking it while she was pregnant because of things that could happen

with the baby. Now, the friend told me that when she asked Mariah, she had gone back on medication once the baby was born because she wasn't pregnant anymore and there was no more risk to the baby in utero. Mariah had told her, no, she wasn't going on medication. She wasn't pregnant anymore and there was no more risk to the baby in utero, Mariah had told her no, she wasn't going on medication. She wasn't going to go back on medication. And Nancy, that is a huge part to this story. Okay. She has been off of her medication for the entirety of her pregnancy. Then she delivers a baby.

And I'm just, Nancy, I don't know if she was mentally ill at the time or not, but that piece of this story is a very important piece to the story. Off of your medicine, nine months during a pregnancy, you deliver a baby. And if she's supposed to be on medication, then something could have gone wrong with her mentally. I'm just saying that. Let me tell you something, Dr. Angie. I've been in the very, very difficult position very often between championing one side or the other. And now I have to pick. Am I going to champion the mother who baked her baby dead, who was perfectly fine the night before on the phone, who was perfectly fine that

morning. I still don't know who turned on the oven, but I guarantee you the parents didn't leave that oven on when they left to go to work. So that only leaves her, unless you think the baby turned the oven on. That said, her or the one month old baby? Who is the innocent here? If this mother should have been on meds, it will have to rise under the law to legal insanity. It can't be street, vernacular, in other words, civilian taught. Wow, she must have been crazy. No. They will have to prove insanity in court.

Because I appreciate what you guys are all saying about the mom. Oh, poor mom. She had a mental illness. The baby died an excruciating, horrible death. And I want to find out what was on this mother's cell phone, on her social media postings, before I agree that there was any mental defect. Now, if there is, then she should be treated in a facility. And once she is cured, if that ever happens, may not ever happen, she may then do her jail time for murdering this child. And that's where I land.

But we wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye.