Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Newborn Girl Found Stuffed in Wally World Trash Dumpster

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Decatur, Alabama, police get a call for a welfare check on 36-year-old Cindy Crow.  WAFF reports a family member believed Crow to be eight months pregnant. Crow, however, looked like she had lost a lot of weight, overnight. The family member, a sister,  told police that she had seen Crow leaving her home, with a large, white trash bag in the back floorboard of her car.  In the home, bloody feminine products were found in the trash.  Police contacted Crow at work, where she agreed to go to the hospital to prove that she was not pregnant.  While waiting for the test results, Crow gave an officer consent to search her cell phone, where he found the app LIFE360. This allowed the detective to trace the route Cindy Crow took when she left her home with the white trash bag.  Using information garnered from the LIFE360 app, detectives found a location with a dumpster, Wally World Mini-Mart. Investigators searched inside the dumpster and found the trash bag containing the deceased body of a newborn baby girl. It was stuffed in the bottom of the dumpster under several other large bags of trash. Cindy Crow was arrested and so far is charged with abuse of a corpse. Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted “My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022” Irv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Michelle Fingerman - Vice President of National Programs for Childhelp, Childhelp.org and childhelphotline.org; LinkedIn: @michellefingerman   Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A newborn baby girl found dumped, literally in a dumpster behind a Wally World mini-mart. Of course the baby is dead. You know how many people would pay tens of thousands of dollars to have a baby to love. But no, let's just throw the baby in a dumpster to die. In a dumpster. I mean, I'm not a shrink, but even I know the meaning behind putting your child in trash.

It's almost more than I can take in. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. It is reminiscent of another case I recently covered. Listen. Hello, 911? Yes, we just found a baby in the trash behind the...

What is it? Damn, I can't think straight. The hogs... Hey, where are we at? The mall. Halls Broadway. Behind. We're behind Halls Mall.

Okay, I'm showing you 1218 North. We just found a infant child. Is it breathing? Yes, ma'am. Okay. The middle of the mall, behind the mall, the Halls of the Faith. Okay. Is it breathing? Yes, ma'am. Okay. The middle of the mall, behind the mall, the house of my faith. Okay. Is it closed? Closed and used. Closed and used. Does the baby have any clothes on? Yes, it is making noise. Okay. Do you have a blanket?

It is a boy and he is still alive, I believe. He looks pretty good. That baby lived. That little baby boy lived. And one day he's going to be told that he was so hated as a newborn, so unloved. The only thing anybody could think to do was just throw him away in the trash. He's going to know that inside the rest of his life. This baby girl doesn't even have that opportunity. She died. Listen. In Decatur, Alabama, a newborn baby has been found in a dumpster behind the Wally World Mini Mart. Police investigation began with a tip called into police about possible human remains in a dumpster. Decatur police found the newborn baby dead inside a bag in the bottom of the dumpster. The body has been sent for autopsy

to determine the cause of death. No arrests have been made. This was at Point Mallard Drive at nine o'clock in the morning. Joining me in All-Star panel makes sense of what we know right now. But first, I want you to listen to more about what we know about the location where the baby was dumped. Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack. WTVY is reporting that a baby was found in a dumpster behind a convenience store in Decatur, Alabama. One employee of the store, Carrie Hall, was shocked to realize a baby had been thrown in the dumpster. Hall is quoted as saying, Consider that sight. It's probably somebody in the neighborhood,

probably somebody close to just throw their baby away and not care. Unquote. Police have not made an arrest yet. Again, joining me in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now, but straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Nicole Parton. I want to start with the narrow line of questioning regarding the discovery of the baby. Who, what, where, and why? Explain.

So the local police department there received a tip that they should check this dumpster behind this gas station, this Wally World Market. They went out and they dug through the trash beneath the large trash bags that the convenience store had put out from their pails of trash every evening by the gas pump. They found a smaller white trash bag and in that that trash bag, they found this beautiful baby girl who unfortunately was already deceased. Wally World, my understanding, is kind of like Six Flags or a Disney knockoff. I mean, it's a fun place. And this was a Wally World mini mart. Explain that to me, Nicole Parton. Yeah, it's just the name that they used. It's actually just a gas station.

It's just a convenience store there in kind of a rural area. Decatur has about 50,000 people who live there. This particular gas station at Point Miller Drive is Point Mallard Drive is in a rural area. It's kind of where you go get your cup of coffee in the morning and you know the guy that you see in front of you because you see him there every day. So this community is shocked to think that someone in their area has placed a baby girl outside in the dumpsters. Wally World was a name used later in a National Lampoon movie, and it was based on a short story named Vacation 58, where the stars of the story were trying to make a trek to an amusement park. So the irony behind the name of this Wally World Mini Mart, you think about children

having fun and being with their families. And now you're at a Wally World Mini Mart and behind it in the trash in a dumpster left to die or already dead is a beautiful baby girl. Now you are hearing, and I'm on call earlier regarding the case of Alexis Avila. And I'm always stunned that this doesn't end. It goes on and on and on. Babies thrown in dumpsters like they're trash. I mean, I need a shrink. Dr. Angela Arnold is joining me. We're now psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Angela, I'm just a trial lawyer. You'll have to explain to me, not the symbolism, but the psychopathy behind putting your baby in a dump. Have you, you know what a dumpster, well, I don't know,

because you've never looked for evidence in a dumpster as I have. It was a dumpster behind a restaurant, and it smelled to high heaven. I can't imagine putting a baby in there with the flies and those big green flies that bite and maggots and worms and rotting food and everything out of the bathroom, the bathroom trash, and you put the baby in there? Well, Nancy, I believe that that speaks more to an act of desperation by someone who is either not attached to the baby through the pregnancy and or scared to death of what this means for their life. So they've not formed an attachment to this baby that has been growing inside of them for nine months, that they've

probably tried to hide this pregnancy for the whole time. So instead of becoming joyous over bringing a baby into the world, these people are scared and they do not know what alternatives they have. James Shelnut is joining me, renowned lawyer with the Shell Nut Firm. And what I like about him is he did 27 years in Metro major case. He was also a detective, former SWAT, former judge, former municipal prosecutor. And you can find him now, shellnutlawfirm.com. James, Dr. Angie Arnold sounds suspiciously close to defending the mother that we believe put this baby dead in the dumpster or put the baby in the dumpster to die with all the bathroom trash and the refuse and rotting food and the flies and the larva. Yeah, she seemingly is defending the mother. Oh, I agree.

And nothing against Dr. Angie Arnold. I'm an Angie Arnold fan, but I will tell you, I adamantly disagree with this. I was a fan until about two minutes ago. Go ahead. Well, I will tell you why. You know, if you look at just the mere fact of where this child was discarded, like you said a minute ago, like a piece of trash, this child wasn't placed somewhere on a doorstep. It wasn't dropped off at some hospital. It wasn't dropped off at some family home. It was thrown where you would throw trash that you never want to see again and never remember again. And to me, as a detective, that looks like a person who is selfish,

who is self-absorbed and has no concern whatsoever for the human life of this innocent child. And you know another thing? I'm not saying abortion is right or wrong. But if you don't want a baby, why do you wait until you give birth and then you kill the baby I don't understand that thinking and also Shelnut there are safe haven spots all over the country where you can take the baby you can take the baby to hospitals, to law enforcement, to family, you know, but to kill the baby, that's murder of a defenseless infant, the tiniest, the most helpless in our societies.

That is murder, Shelnut. Yeah, you know, it's concerning. And, you know, I don't know what the excuse will be as far as to why this person did this oh dear lord in heaven are you asking me to prove motive do i need to prove motive why does anybody do anything why did scott peterson kill lacey because he wanted to be free he didn't want to be married anymore. Why does anybody do anything? Well, I will tell you, in Alabama, which is where this happened at, Alabama has some interesting laws.

One of the laws Alabama has is a chemical endangerment that causes the death of a child. Now, I don't know what the autopsy will show. So basically, you're flapping your wings into a flight of fancy because you have no idea whether there was any drugs or alcohol involved. And P.S., voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Oh, I agree with you. My point is she could be trying to save her own skin because at some point this child is going to be serologically tested. This child is going to be looked at for any signs of physical abuse.

And under Alabama law, if there is any type of controlled substance in this baby's system, then now this turns into a Class A felony for the death of this child. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining me, not just a medical examiner, but chief medical examiner. You know how hard it is to become chief medical examiner? You can't have a single complaint from any of your clients ever. Oops, sorry, you don't have any clients that can speak. You're the medical examiner.

They're all already dead. Chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, Fort Worth. But joking aside, you have to climb up the ladder, perform thousands and thousands of autopsies to become the chief medical examiner in Tarrant County, lecturer, University of Texas, Austin, and Texas Christian University Medical School. So I defer to you, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Go ahead. The discussion of whether the mom is using a chemical or something like that. If she placed a breathing baby into a trash bag, that's asphyxia. So I think that you're dealing with a homicide, not only if you place the kid in a trash bag where they cannot breathe, but then jettison them into a trash can. So I'm unsure of why there'd be even a question of whether the mom was intoxicated or not.

OK, before I get off into whether the mom had a cocktail before the baby was thrown in the dumpster. Joining us right now, a very special guest from National Programs for Child Help at ChildHelp.org and ChildHelpHotline.org. They are an establishment that I really believe in. They truly care about children. When you donate to them, your money is going to help children, not to the president and the vice president and the vice vice president. It goes to help children, childhelp.org. Michelle Fingerman with us. Michelle, when will it end? When will we quit finding babies in dumpsters? We talk about it all the time, Nancy. I mean, we hear this time and time again,

and we're devastated each and every time. Another innocent life lost. So we talk a lot about how can we prevent this from happening? What resources? There's no defending the action. There's a baby that's dead now because of these actions. But what can we look at to prevent these from occurring in the future? And that's part of the role that we play here on the hotline is talking to people that may be in crisis, talking to family members when they have concern about somebody? What options do they have so we can intervene before something like this happens? I'm thinking back on John, David, and Lucy, who, believe it or not, are about to turn 16.

It's been the best 16 years of my life. They were extremely premature. They were both in the NICU, neonatal intensive care unit, for weeks. Lucy was born at two pounds. Two pounds. She was smaller than a kitten. And that little thing lying in the incubator at the hospital would hold up one arm in the power sign, and she would lay there like that. And oh, of course, they were both in incubators. We would sing to them. We would stand there. We would watch them. They had so many tubes going in and out of their bodies, and they were so fragile. And I'm thinking about this little baby in a dumpster, covered in trash, either dead when she's thrown in there or dying there, not understanding what was happening around her. Nobody holding her.

Nobody loving her. Nobody feeding her. Or short little time on earth. Just awful. nobody feeding her or short little time on earth just awful and i'm trying to figure out too dr kendall crowns how do you look at a baby and determine its age how many days how many weeks how many hours old it is so there's actually a number of measurements that have been put together over time one of them is foot length. You can use the foot length to determine the gestational age of a baby and get pretty accurate from it.

Foot length, what else? I believe hand length is another one and then overall length of the baby, although that one isn't as specific as foot length. Dr. Kendall-Krause, do you have children? I do. I have five children. Well, you do remember what they looked like when they were first born, don't you? Yeah. Okay. So do you remember what they looked like a month later when they started to get a little baby fat on them and they were rounding out and they're no longer that pinkish reddish color when they're born

and they're starting to get hair and their eyes are focusing, their eyes look different when they're first born. You can tell they can't really see. They're looking around. They can't really see. But in a week or two, you can tell the eyes are focusing. The eyes actually physically look different. Would you agree with all of that?

Yeah. physically look different. Would you agree with all of that? Yes. But you're telling me the only way that you, a renowned physician with thousands of autopsies under your belt, lecturer at two fantastic universities, the only way I can tell how old a baby is by the foot and the hand length? And overall length of the body, yes. They look different, doctor. I mean, I'm a JD, not an MD, but I know a newborn baby from a baby a week old or six months old. You can look at them and tell.

So are we talking about gestational age once you've been born and then you've aged over time? Or are you talking about a child that has died in utero and has come into the office? The baby in the dumpster! That baby! Why would I be talking about a baby in utero? That's not even a topic today. Often with these dumpster babies, they are born prematurely and die at the time of birth.

So you have to get an idea of what gestational age they were at to move forward with a determining cause and manner of death. I know what you're doing, doctor. You're using all of your fancy medical jargon on me because you know I don't understand it. No, no, that's not my goal. Isn't it true you can look at a baby and tell if it's newborn, just born, or three weeks old? Newborn, just born born or three weeks old newborn just born or three weeks old so newborn and just born would to me be the same yes you can tell that they are had a survival time period okay and that james shell nut is why you never put a doctor on the stand unless you really have to because they will out thank you if you ask them any medical question.

Just, you know, forget about it. Would you agree with that? Unless you really have to. Oh, I think you stay within your specialty for sure. When you don't, you get exposed. Yes, I've been exposed. I'm not an OBGYN. There, I said it. Okay, I want to get back to this baby and what the H-E-double-L happened.

But I'm just thinking about what we just talked about to Dr. Angela Arnold. I'm trying to figure out which one is really worse, to leave your baby to die in a dumpster just after you've had the baby, just given birth, or you have it around for two or three weeks and you take care of the baby just given birth or you have it around for two or three weeks and you take care of the baby and I assume you would get attached to the baby and then throw it out. They're both horrible or oh are you going to defend the the perp again? No I'm not but you know Nancy when you talk about and I do believe it's worse to keep the baby around for a couple of weeks and then kill it but I also think it might be two different disease processes. So the first one, when you get rid of a baby, when it's just been born and it

comes out of you, I do believe that it has to do with number one, a lack of attachment. And number two, some sort of feeling that there's trouble and she's not going to be able to take care of the baby two to three weeks later if a baby is disposed of that has more to do with some sort of postpartum depression episode depression is not a defense but but okay but i'm just telling you as a doctor as a psychiatrist who practices who takes care of these women all the time, there is a difference. I'm depressed. Can I just go ahead and shoot Jackie right now? No, no. And Nancy, I don't believe you're depressed. Okay. But when you take care of people who truly are depressed, Nancy, it is, they can't see their way out of it. You can't shake them out of it. They literally can't see their way out of it.

Okay? So, yes, there is a difference in getting rid of a baby at those two different times in the baby's life. Okay? You know what? You're not the only baby specialist on today because we've got Nicole Parton, who is mother of 10. Yes, 1-0-10. And she did it willingly. It's not like I accidentally got pregnant.

She adopted many of these children, and many of them have learning disabilities and all sorts of issues they're trying to overcome. So, Nicole Parton, I can't say enough what a hero you are to so many. But you have taken in children and adopted them that have been abandoned by their parents. How has that affected them? Absolutely. I can speak firsthand. I'm raising four beautiful little girls who were abandoned by their mothers. And even after being in a loving home where I adore them, I have a daughter who's been with me for seven years now, and she still is traumatized remembering the day that her biological mom left her to die. And she'd feel on days when she's feeling less than or having a hard day, will say, Mama, you're not going to

leave me, are you? You're not just going to give me away, are you? Even after therapy, even after seven years of love in a stable home, these children suffer tremendously knowing that the mother who birthed them, the person who's supposed to protect them, just threw them away or set them aside or left them to die. It's tragic. And even though we do everything we can to help them overcome, it is a struggle that they deal with. Sadly, sadly, these biological parents who do this, I don't even know if they have any clue what they're doing to their children. So who is the perp? Who did this? And not just throwing the baby into the trash, but quote, according to the cops, stuffed in the bottom of the dumpster under several other large bags of trash.

Take a listen to our cut six from Crime Online. Police in Decatur, Alabama, were contacted about doing a well-being check on 36-year-old Cindy Crow. According to WAFF, a family member believed Cindy Crow was eight months pregnant, but when she saw her, it looked like she had lost a lot of weight overnight. Her sister believed she'd given birth and was concerned about where the baby was. Before calling police to check on her sister, the family member said that as Cindy was leaving her home, she noticed a large white trash bag in the back floor of the car she was driving. When the family member tried to look in the bag, Crow refused to let her. Crow then left,

headed to their aunt's house. While Crow was gone, her sister looked into some other trash in the house and found bloody feminine products. When she arrived at her aunt's house, she noticed the trash bag was no longer in the car. Wow. That is a lot of information from CrimeOnline.com. The family noticed that suddenly this woman, Cindy Nicole Crowe, had lost a lot of weight, a disturbing amount of weight. Then when asked to look in a white trash bag in the black back floorboard of her car, she wouldn't let her. There are some real indicators right there, but there's more. Listen. Police followed up by contacting Cindy Crow at her job.

They were able to convince Crow to go to the hospital and prove that she was not pregnant. WAFF48 reports, while waiting for the test results, Crow gave an officer consent to search her cell phone. A Decatur detective found that Crowe had Life 360 on her phone. That app allowed the detective to trace the route Cindy Crowe took when she left her home on Monday to go to her aunt's house. Joining me right now, Irv Brandt, Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector, DOJ, Department of Justice, Office of International Affairs, author of multiple books, including Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone, Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon, and inspired by all of his trips around the world investigating cases and tracking down fugitives. Irv Brandt, that's a lot of police work that has actually gone into this case. And it all started, Irv, with family members asking for a welfare check on a relative that

had lost a ton of weight, a ton of weight. And I don't mean over a period of months if they're on a Zympic or something or Wegovy, but a drastic amount of weight just gone. Then they get suspicious of a white trash bag in the back of their car. I'm suspicious about them being suspicious. If I see a white trash bag in somebody's car, I don't really think anything about it. I certainly don't want to look into it. So something must have made them very suspicious about that trash bag, Irv Brandt. I agree, Nancy.

And from the way the facts that we know about the case right now, it appears that these family members suspected this all along. That's why they Yes, exactly. That she's lying. Then when they got consent to go into her phone, that investigator was looking for something very specific. And what would that be, Irv Brandt? Looking for what? Her movements. Explain how Life360 works. The app. I love it, by the way. Parents love to use it, put it in their children's phones.

There's a lot of different uses for these apps. And that police officer, that investigator, had something specific in mind to track her movements. If they possibly thought that this baby had been disposed of in another location, which ultimately it turned out that it was. Now, Dr. Angela Arnold joining me, a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Now, remember to be a psychiatrist, you have to get your medical degree, and then you go on after that.

So we're talking, let's say, four years of undergrad, three or four years of medical school, and then more. Then you get your specialty in psychiatry. Now, Dr. Angela Arnold tried to tune up earlier about this poor, young, maybe a teen girl that had gotten rid of her baby because she didn't know what to do. Okay. B.S. The woman's 36 years old.

I think she knows what's happening, Dr. Angie. I completely, completely agree with you. So it's a completely different story. And why was she hiding the pregnancy from her family? My other question is, which I imagine many of your viewers have also is, was she denying help from the family? Did the family try to help her through this or were they all just sitting back from afar going, I think she's pregnant, but nobody was helping her because that could have been the case also. Or was she denying help from her family? And by the way, that baby didn't get there on its own. Where was the father in all of this?

Yes, where is the father in all of this? And remember, at the hospital, she took that pregnancy test. Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack. W-A-F-F-T-V reports the test results for Crow came back positive for pregnancy. Staff at the hospital said Crow was seen at the hospital in February 2023, and she was six weeks pregnant at that time. Her due date, October 13th. With this information, Crow agreed to go back to the Decatur Police Department,

where she was interviewed by the detective. Crow told the detective that she was at the hospital in February and she was pregnant at that time. Crow then told the detective that she had a miscarriage not long after the hospital visit. Okay, I almost said, wow, I wonder if the cops felt bad about, you know, aggressively questioning a woman that apparently had just given birth and chosen to throw her baby in the trash.

What was going on in her mind? But wait a minute. She has the wherewithal to lie. She's lying. Oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage a while back because help me out, Dr. Crowns and Dr. Arnold. Why would you still be testing positive for pregnancy if you had the miscarriage a couple of months before? I don't know if a couple of months, if you had the baby a couple of months before, if you would still be showing the hormones that would give a positive pregnancy test. February 2023. She said she had a miscarriage shortly after the hospital visit in Feb 2023. Those are months, months before. Why would you still have pregnancy hormones?

It wouldn't make sense that the pregnancy hormones would still be there months later. I can't give you a good explanation for it. So that's a lie. I would think it would be. That she still had pregnancy hormones and her miscarriage, according to her, had been seven, eight months before. OK, but then we learn more. Listen, Cindy Crowe agreed to speak to the detective and was taken to the Decatur Police Department.

W.A.Y. 31 reports that during the interview, Crowe confirmed the hospital February 2023 hospital visit and that she was pregnant at that time. She claims that she had a miscarriage shortly thereafter. She then admitted that she did have a white trash bag, but claimed that it contained trash from the car she was driving. When the detective asked where the trash bag was, Crow provided multiple locations that were all determined to be false. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practiced to deceive. Didn't anybody learn anything from Watergate? The cover up was much worse than the crime for Pete's sake. Here we're we've got a horrible crime and now a cover up lying about it. All the locations she gives about the trash bag are false.

Her fake miscarriage is false. Everything is false. And it shows she has the wherewithal to lie. In other words, she's not insane. She's not having a break from reality. She knows enough to lie and lie very well. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, how can you tell when you look at a baby if the baby was stillborn or if the baby lived and was then killed? So one of the things you can do is what we call the float test, where you take the lungs from the baby and place them in a jar of water.

And if the lungs float, then the baby took a breath and survived the birthing process. If they sink to the bottom, then the baby was more than likely stillborn. The unfortunate thing with the float test is if there's any decomposition, because especially with these dumpster babies, they're not often found right away. And the decomposition process starts, bacteria starts producing gases, and the gases make the lungs actually float. So that can throw that test off. The other thing you can look for is histologically looking for expansion of the air

spaces in the lungs, which again can show that the baby possibly took a breath. But if any CPR was done, that can disrupt that test as well. So there aren't a lot of good tests to determine whether the baby was alive at the time of birth or not. We just have a few that we can use. To Irv Brandt, how do you go about proving this case other than you've already caught the mom in a lie, a couple of lies? Well, that's going to be mostly with a homicide investigation. Once it starts, it becomes a homicide investigation, once it starts, becomes a homicide investigation.

Yeah. The suspect, Crow, is already given statements that's, like you said earlier, a weave of lies. And it's going to come down to her admitting, and it's going to be an admission on her part. It almost always is in cases like this. When confronted with the evidence, when confronted with the lies that she told, she's going to end up admitting to what she's done. And there's also the issue of following her trail. Does Life 360 show that she went to the dumpster site? Does her nav system in her car show she went to the dumpster site? Does her nav system in her car

show she went to the dumpster site? Do surveillance videos behind or around Wally World show her pulling in and leaving? If so, what day? She obviously is not going to have a mental defect defense because she knows enough to lie to her family, to go to a location, put the baby in a dumpster, to lie to police about where she's been, about her miscarriage, about the white trash bag. Her lies are becoming intricate and they're very hard to keep straight once you start a tangle of lies. I was speaking earlier to Michelle Fingerman, VP of National Programs for Child Help at ChildHelp.org. I can't really stress ChildHelp.org enough. It never seems to end.

Take a listen to our cut 15. Another example. This one out of Florida. This is the dumpster where the baby girl was found on Wednesday. Her apartment is just beyond in that back corner. She told investigators she didn't think the baby was breathing and put her in the dumpster. Investigators released new details about a newborn baby girl found inside this dumpster at a West Boca apartment complex. The arrest report says the baby had a plastic bag around her head and was placed inside another plastic bag.

Investigators dug through the trash and found a matching plastic bag with a receipt to Fantastic Beauty Supply. They found her like that. Jessica Reyes says she was working the day detectives came in and remembers the suspect, Rafaela Sosa, coming in the store on Tuesday. Employees were able to help investigators because their computer system stores clients' names and phone numbers. We have

to put in the client's information in order for us to process the order for that. The arrest report shows Sosa told deputies she thought her baby wasn't breathing and took the baby to the dumpster. Why not have a funeral for Pete's sake? And that's the Florida baby. And what about the Vegas baby? Take a listen to our cut 16. I do want you guys to take a look. Neighbors who know nothing about this baby are out here leaving flowers and candles because it's just such a devastating situation. I did spend the day out here and neighbors told me a man who lives in this area found the baby's body inside one of these dumpsters inside a duffel bag. He tried to lift the bag, but it was heavy.

This woman didn't want to share her name, but told me what happened Sunday morning in the alley behind her apartment. A neighbor who lives two buildings away from here, he was looking into the garbage and he saw a duffel red bag. Her neighbor couldn't lift the bag, so she told me he unzipped it. She says he called 911. North Las Vegas police haven't stopped investigating sin. And there's the Delaware baby and our cut 18. The lead line in Newsweek said, They were the perfect teens. Then she got pregnant.

They got scared. Amy Grossberg and Brian Peterson. Brutalized and discarded in a dumpster, the victim of Amy and Brian was their unnamed newborn child. It was November of 96, and Grossberg had hidden her pregnancy from her parents before moving to Newark to attend the University of Delaware. Peterson was attending college in Pennsylvania, but rushed to Newark when Grossberg's water broke and checked them into the Comfort Inn.

Conflicting stories have made the subsequent events a mystery to anyone except the couple, but Peterson and Grossberg claim they believed the infant to be stillborn, wrapped him in a garbage bag, and disposed of him in a dumpster. If they believe the child was stillborn, why was it brutally beaten dead? But in this case, Dr. Angie Arnold, the mom is a 36-year-old grown woman. Right. So, Nancy, we all know that that means that she knows better. But, you know, but Nancy, I agree. What's going to happen is what she's going to find out is that there's so much information that's going to tie her to this that there's no way she's going to get out of it. She's going to have to admit to this. So the fact that as you were talking about the dumpster and the fact that she literally dug under the trash in the dumpster to put the baby, she did know what she was doing.

She didn't want that baby to be found. And she dug under all of the trash and put the baby under the trash. Michelle Fingerman joining me, VP National Programs, ChildHelp.org. Michelle, what are alternatives for mothers that don't want the baby? Listen, I don't understand. I can't relate to that. I wanted a family so badly. And again, these have been the best 16 years of my whole life or the time I've had with John David and Lucy, my children. But for moms that don't feel that way, what are the alternatives? What can they do, Michelle Fingerman? There's choices.

There's obviously positive choices that don't have to result in babies dying. There's adoptions. We have safe haven laws. You know, there's free confidential help where somebody in the situation can pick up a phone or send a chat or text and understand what options that they have that will give this baby a chance in life. What alternatives, when you say safe havens, could you explain that please? Yes. So taking babies in Alabama, there's safe haven laws, taking babies to emergency room departments.

Recently passed a law where they're going to expand that where you can take babies within so many days, three days. I think that's expanding to 45 days in Alabama where they can go to a fire station and take the baby there. So from there, the professionals can handle it to make sure that this baby gets the medical attention that this girl needed, can be on the pathway to finding a family that wants, wanted to raise her. If you or someone you know doesn't want the baby. Dial toll free to ChildHelp.org. They will help you find a safe haven to take the baby and you won't get is 800-422-4453. Repeat, 800-422-4453. You can find all the information at ChildHelp.org.

And as for Cindy Nicole Crowe, book her. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.