Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NICK REINER MURDER RAMPAGE TRIGGERED BC HOLLYWOOD WEIGHT GAIN FEARS?

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

Sources say Nick Reiner believes he’s the victim of a "conspiracy" after killing his parents. It is clear that Reiner knows he killed his parents, but doesn’t understand why he’s in jail. Reiner, delusional, thinks the people who put him there are "conspiring against him." Sources close to the legal proceedings claim it’s likely Reiner will plead not guilty by reason of insanity, placingthe blame on unbalanced schizophrenia meds. Now, claims are being made that a change in medication may have led Reiner to murder his parents.  Reiner reported complaining to his doctors that his meds had caused him to gain weight. Changes were made, and some are saying the new medication allegedly caused him to become increasingly "erratic," "dangerous," and isolated, marking a total physical and mental decline. Joining Nancy Grace today: Josh Kolsrud - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices; Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices, Dr. Bethany Marshall -  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Author of Newly-released Novel, “It Started With A Whisper," and Former publicist of Sean Combs; IG: @naughtygossip Dr. DeWayne Hendrix - Former Warden at the MDC in Brooklyn, also served as a Warden in Sheridan, Oregon, Former Senior Warden with the US Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons, Founder and President of A New Daylight Foundation, Author: "Who Are You?  See it Say it and Seize it;" @anewdaylight (IG), @drdewaynehendrix (LinkedIn), @anewdaylight (X) Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue," and Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)  Alexis Tereszcuk - "Crime Stories" Investigative Reporter; X @swimmie2009  Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter ‘Crime Stories’ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Nick Reiner, alleged murder rampage, triggered because of Hollywood weight, gain, fears. Two people dead to never be. And their children's lives, again, their grandchildren's lives. our lives, Rob and Michelle Reiner, dead?

Because of Hollywood weight gain fears? That triggered the whole thing? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Rob Reiner and Michelle Reiner brutally slashed dead in their own beds, slaughtered in their own home. It's just unthinkable.

It's unbathomable. We are fully confident that a jury will convict Nick Reiner beyond a reasonable doubt of the brutal murders of his parents. Rod Reiner and Michelle Singer-Riner and do so unanimously. Thank you very much. Sources say Reiner believes he's the victim of a conspiracy after killing his parents. Claims Reiner knows he killed his parents but doesn't understand why he's in jail. Reiner thinks people are conspiring against him.

Sources claim it's likely Reiner will plead not guilty by reason of insanity, placing the blame on unbalanced schizophrenia meds. That's right. Nick Reiner is sitting behind bars on the double murder charges of his father, Rob Reiner, and mother Michelle Singer-Riner. Yet he thinks he, Nick Reiner, is the victim. I'm not quite sure how that flipped around. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. We're now psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. Joining us from this jurisdiction, you can see her now on Peacock and find her at

at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com. How did that flip? They're dead. Their throats were slit in their bed. They sustained multiple knife wounds, indicating they fought back, yet he thinks he's the victim of a conspiracy. And number two, after I finish with Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm going to go to defense attorney Josh Colesru, because I think the defense is leaking all of this in dribbles to tank

the jury pool. But that said, how has he determined he's the victim, Dr. Bethany? Well, Nancy, there's two possibilities. One is that he has been drug addicted for so long, that he has a personality disorder that has developed that just compels him to manipulate people all the time, to always feel that it's everybody else's fault and he bears no responsibility. The other is that he could have a drug-induced psychosis that is still lingering that causes paranoia and that paranoia was an element in the slaying of his parents. For instance, feeling like they were the devil coming to get him or the devil was going to get them. So he had to kill them to spare their souls or some paranoid conspiracy like that that's still lingering on while he's incarcerated.

I mean, to Alexis Tereschuk in the courtroom, watching every move during the first hearings, Alexis Tereschuk, crime stories investigative reporter, Alexis, all of this is dribbling out, I believe, leaked by the defense because let's look at who has access to Nick Reiner to get his defense. Only his defense attorneys. They're the only one speaking to him behind bars. He's in isolation. He is not around other inmates because they don't want him to be killed. They don't want him to commit suicide and pull an Epstein.

So who else can he talk to? This is coming from the defense. These insanity theories, these schizophrenic theories, it's all coming from the defense. They are trying to skew public opinion before a jury is even struck, Alexis. And his defense attorney at the time when I was in court was, Alan Jackson, super high profile. You know him from the Karen Reed trial, many others. But he has said, point blank, he is not guilty by reason of insanity. And the way that he's going to do that is there are all these stories that are out there now about, so Nick was on antipsychosis medicine.

He was schizophrenic. He has been in rehab since he was 15 years old. He is now in his 30s, to 15 years of different rehabs in and out, in and out, in and out. His parents have tried to stop the addiction. They've tried to help him with a job so he'd have his own money so he wouldn't feel overshadowed by his father's amazing career. But then now the story's coming out allegedly that he was very, very concerned about the medicine that he's on because it was making him gain weight. And again, you're right, Nancy, no one else is visiting Nick except his attorneys. Dr. Bethany Marshall, much has been made of Nick Reiner using meth, methamphetamine. Isn't it true that psychiatrists, medical professionals, psychologists, psychoanalyst, all agree

that behavior while high on methamphetamine mimics schizophrenic psychosis? Absolutely, Nancy. when you think of the delusions, the hallucinations, the paranoia, the mood swings, you know, you can take those symptoms and assume it's schizophrenia, but it could be caused by many other factors. And in this case, my first thought was methamphetamine, methamphetamine when I heard this story. So methamphetamine mimics schizophrenia, which is organic and genetic in nature. And isn't it true that the use of meth, methamphetamine actually exacerbates. If you do have schizophrenia, it exacerbates it. Makes it much

worse. Absolutely, Nancy. Or let's say you have latent schizophrenia, meaning you're schizophrenic, but the symptoms have not yet emerged. If you start using methamphetamine, it will bring those latent symptoms out. So think about the fact that he was in 18 rehabs from the time he was 15 years old. schizophrenia develops between the ages of 18 and 21. It could be that he actually activated a latent schizophrenia, or because of all the meth use, he just presented with the same symptoms as schizophrenia. One way to know is how long those symptoms last once he's behind bars.

So let's say those symptoms of paranoia, the delusions, the hallucinations, go on for months once he's incarcerated, then you say, ah, okay, he's no longer using meth, but he's still acting schizophrenic, he's schizophrenic. But if those symptoms remit fairly soon, then we know it's propelled by the meth. Some psychologists claim methamphetamine psychosis, a possible effect of heavy meth use characterized by paranoia and hallucinations closely resembles schizophrenia. Typically considered a thought disorder, schizophrenia is also characterized by hallucinations and delusions, accompanied by reduced emotional expression, lack of motivation, social withdrawal,

and poverty of speech. Studies show nearly 22% of patients first treated for methamphetamine psychosis are later diagnosed with schizophrenia. I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it was Coke and something else and I was up for days on end and I started punching out different things in my guest house. Like a frame? Like what? Like a stuff? No, I. I think I started with the TV and then I went over to the lamp and then progressive, I just everything in the guest house got wrecked. From the dopey podcast and on that podcast, Nick Reiner has been very, very candid about his addiction to various drugs, heroin, marijuana, uppers, downers, including methamphetamine.

And the reason this matters now to Josh Colesruh, George, George, joining us, veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor and founder of the Coles Rood Law Offices, the reason it matters now which drug he was addicted to is because how can he argue some type of mental psychosis as a defense when that psychosis could be actually the use of methamphetamine or some type of psychotic state brought on by the use of methamphetamine. amphetamine because you and I know that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. So if he has now developed psychosis because of meth, how can that be a defense? That's voluntary use of drugs.

I've actually litigated this issue, Nancy, and the law in California actually covers this exact scenario. So what is important is what was controlling on the date of offense. Was it the drug use, potentially the methamphetamine, or was it schizophrenia? You can have both. You can have both schizophrenia and drug use. But what the judge is going to have to decide when he decides whether or not insanity is going to be even allowed to be used is what was controlling. So if we find that he had methamphetamine in his system and that he voluntarily took it within a reasonable period of time before he murdered his parents the prosecutors will have a decent argument that insanity doesn't apply in this case however the defense has a great argument

that he was suffering from psychosis that he has no control over first we know that he has a diagnosis for schizophrenia right and that second that his antipsychotic medication had just been changed. And in medicine, that is a danger window. You know, medicine is what keeps a psychotic mind tethered to reality. And third, look at what happens immediately following his arrest. He acknowledges that he murdered his parents, but he doesn't understand why he's in jail. And he believes that this case is a conspiracy. You know, that's not evasion. It's not delusion. It's a person who doesn't understand the wrongfulness of his actions. And under the law, that is what insanity really is.

Okay. You know what? I appreciate everything you're saying, Josh Coles Rood, but I believe his actions immediately after the murder show, he did know what he was doing was wrong. Number one, he fled the scene. Number two, he hid from his family and from police. And there was a serious search for him, and he managed to elude police. He checked into a motel under his own name. He knew how to do that. To avoid being caught, he blacked out the windows in the motel with sheets so no one could see him. He realized he was covered. This is the inside of the motel. He realized he was covered with his parents' blood, and he goes and takes a shower leaving a blood trail behind him, puts on clean clothes, clean shoes, clean shirt, pants, washes his

tear and then decides he's hungry and thirsty, walks to a 7-Eleven very calmly, and his matching outfit, goes straight to the refrigerated beverage area, gets a drink, and then goes and stands patiently in line and pays for his drink. He was hiding out. Then when police come to arrest him, he doesn't fight, he doesn't say anything. He holds his hands up. He knows why he is getting arrested. This video from our friends at CBS News and New York Post. I think that is going to be controlling no matter what is cooked up between now and the trial. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Joining me right now, guys, special guest Rob Shooter. He is the host of naughty but nice podcast, author of a brand new hit book on Amazon called It Started with a whisper. And you can find him at robsheeter.substack.com. Oh, you and Casey Anthony. You're both on substack. My, okay, I'll let that pass. Rob Sheeter, how does he think he is the victim?

What can you tell us? What have you learned from sources that have communicated with Nick Reiner behind bars? Yeah, a lot of information is coming out. First of all, I think I just want to emphasize there has been a sea tide in the sentiment of, of, Hollywood. Hollywood has really, really turned now when it was clear that the family were no longer

going to pay for this expensive lawyer and he was going to have a public defender. Hollywood now has turned. There was a lot of sympathy for Nick for his issues, for his mental health. Now people are really, really angry. And I think they're going to get even more angry as more leaks come out about state of mind now. I'm told that he is so original. He believes he's going to be out by March. for his father's birthday. I think Rob Reiner's birthday is March 6. We know they think he thinks there's a big conspiracy. Hold on just a moment.

A Rob Shooter, you may be a PR guru. You may have worked for Britney Spears and Sean Ditty Combs and so many others. But I don't see MD beside your name. Is that correct? You haven't graduated from medical school and gotten your specialty and your residency in psychiatric care. have you? It's correct, Nancy. Okay. So when you say delusional, you mean that in the street sense, not in the medical professional sense, that he's having a psychotic delusion, which equals,

in my world, Rob, a defense at trial. So when you're saying he's delusional, you mean that in the street sense? Yeah, absolutely. That's what I'm talking about here. Not a psychologist, a master's in political science, thank you very much, but not psychology. And so this is what people are saying. on the streets. I talk to sources in Hollywood. I talk to movie stars, to executives of studios, to people out there, and they're saying that this is simply, the reporting that we're getting, is simply delusional because like you, Nancy, they've all seen that video of him on CBS, where he's going to drug stores, where he's walking around after the murders. He seemed to be in a sound enough state of mind that he knew to shower and cover evidence, and yet now he's claiming

that there is a conspiracy out to get him. Okay, Rob Sheeter, I'm going to try something out on you that I usually do with the jury. And I've used this technique when proving a DUI homicide to counterclaims by the defense that it was just an accident. It's not an accident. Each step was volitional, was intentional. You turn your car off, you walk in the bar.

You have one drink, two drink, three drink. Then you get your keys. Then you pay your bill. Then you walk to your car. Then you put the key in the ignition. Then you start it up. Put it in reverse and start driving out on the open road. Each act is intentional.

Let's think, shooter. Think about what he did after allegedly murdering his parents. He leaves the scene. He leaves their bedroom. Leaves them to decompose in their bed. When Romy, the sister gets there, Rob, I'm going to force you to think about this. I don't like it either. Romy comes in and sees her dad.

She didn't even realize her mom was also in the bed dead. What was she like thought it looked like a bloody pillow or a lump of sheets? Had her mother wriggled down to the bottom of the bed and covered herself up in sheets trying to get away. Think about it. You have to think about it. A jury has to think about it. Why couldn't she tell her mother was there in the bed beside her father? How was she contorted so as to escape Romie's vision?

What did he do then? Goes to his poolhouse, gets into his clothes, his cabinet, his dresser drawers, his closet, gets out his clothes, clean clothes, packs them, leaves, gets himself to a motel, checks in showing his identification, taking the key, going to his room, getting in there, washing himself, washing his hair, putting on clean clothes. We don't even know where the bloody clothes are. Were they discarded? And where's the weapon? Did he dispose of the weapon?

We have sources telling us the weapon hasn't been found. So did he discard it like Brian Koeberger did? Did he have that wherewithal? Think, think, use your noodle. Then he's like, wow, I'm hungry. walks to a convenience store, goes in, gets a drink, and walks out. Perfectly composed. Pays for it.

Knows to stand in line. That from our friends at CBS. When you think of all of his actions, one after the next, after the next, and I've got so much more. That was the abbreviated version. That shows he was intentional and he knew what he was doing, Shooter. I can't argue with you, Nancy. I've seen that video. Hollywood has seen that video. People, as more information comes out. Why do you keep talking about Hollywood?

Because that's what the rest of the country cares what Hollywood thinks? I don't know. The only reason I cares because that's a jury pool. Yeah, that's why. That's why people in Hollywood, people in California are going to be on this jury. And so I think now as more and more information comes out, it's a very valid question you asked. How is all this coming out? That's a different subject. But when all these, information comes out. People are taking notice. This is still a story that people are fascinated by, are tuned into. Often in our world, Nancy, they move on very quickly to the next new thing. This has not happened in the Robb-Riner case. People are still talking about him just at the Golden Globes

a few nights ago. He was the talk of the red carpet. So there's still intense, intense interest in this, an intense interest in the evidence and information that is leaking out to reporters like me. to correct you again. Rob, this is not a story. This is real. I love my parents. I don't want to walk in and find them both, slaughter their throat slit in their bed,

plus multiple stab wounds. They sacrifice their whole lives to help me. That's what this is about. It is not a story. number one. Number two, red carpet, red smarpet. Don't care what's the talk of the red carpet. What red carpet? I don't care. Now, it is significant because these people all yacking and buzzing could make up the jury pool. That's the only reason that I care. Now, I want to talk to you about something else you said. You said that their attention has stuck to this story. You make it sound like the public has the attention span of a gnat. What, you think I'm going to, you think I'm going to, you think I'm going to, you know, to forget the Reiner's were murdered? We have an awful habit of consumers of information. I'm talking about everybody here, of moving very quickly.

Our cell phones, the way we consume information now, make stuff happen awfully fast. And I have been involved with, I have covered, I've reported on some really big stories, that tomorrow we're not talking about anymore. And I'm not saying that's a good thing. I think it's a bad thing. But I understand people's busy lives,

their families, their children, and why they've got so much on their plate, it's hard to stick with something. This story is different. It is sticking. People are talking about it. There's as much passion about this within the world of the media, maybe not within the world of the public, but there's still so much passion in the story. I think it's because it's such a horrific story. This is just so horrific. When you talk about your parents, Nancy, when you hear this story, everybody thinks about their parents. Everybody thinks about Romey walking into that bedroom and seeing what she saw and the scene was so horrific, she couldn't even tell that there were two bodies, not one.

There were two bodies there. And so I think all this added up together means that we're going to have a really, really deep dig, a deep look into this horrific story. And the evidence that is coming out slowly but surely. And there's a lot more video footage too. My sources tell me there are cameras in that hotel. There are cameras in the lobby. There are cameras in the hallway.

Anybody that's checked into a fancy hotel in LA can tell you that. There is a lot more evidence to come out. So at approximately 3.40 this afternoon, Los Angeles Police officers, along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department, responded to the 200 block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were two deceased individuals inside of the residence. LAPD responded to a residence, the residents of Rob and Michelle Reiner

located in West Los Angeles Division. At that location, they found two deceased adults, a male and a female. Through the night, working with the coroner's office, they were able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner. There were multiple stab wounds as they lie in their bed.

They fought. They knew what was happening to them. It was a horrific scene. There was blood everywhere. This is a tragedy. and just what beautiful souls they were. He was arrested in a public area, in the Exposition Park area,

near the University of Southern California campus. He was approached by the officers, and he was arrested without incident. There were no indications that, there was no indication that he was going to resist or anything like that. He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taken into custody without issue,

and he was transported to our police air court's facility. As we go to air tonight, we are learning that Nick Reiner behind bars on the double murders of his father, Rob Reiner and mother and Michelle Singer-Riner, says he is the victim. He thinks he's behind bars because of a conspiracy that he shouldn't be there. Also, we are learning about claims, and maybe this would only work with a Hollywood jury, that Hollywood fears of weight gain somehow triggered a murderous rampage, allegedly. What does that mean? I think to Sydney Sumner, a crime stories investigative reporter, I think what this means, and you know, I'm just a trial lawyer living far, far away from L.A.,

I think what they're going to try to claim or what they are claiming, what some experts are claiming, is that Nick Reiner had begun to gain weight on his meds, his prescribed meds. to combat weight gain because, God forbid, you gain a few pounds, especially in Hollywood, they changed Reiner's meds. And thereby that medicine changed, that medication change, pushed him into a psychotic state. Is that the claim? All because of weight loss fears, the meds, weight gain fears, the meds were changed. and that triggered a psychotic episode. That's exactly the claim.

Nick Reiner was complaining about the weight gain associated with his antipsychotic medication. And this is very common, Nancy. This affects a lot of people who are taking this kind of medication because it alters your brain chemistry. So people report excessive cravings for high fat and sugar foods and also not being able to tell. when you're full. That's a big reason people overeat on these antipsychotic meds. So Nick Reiner approached his doctor, concerned about his weight gain, and you can tell, Nancy. I mean, it's very clear those videos, the one that he posted to his YouTube as a young man. I think he was 21 at the time of that video. He's now 32. It's very clear that Reiner has gained a significant

amount of weight. And his doctor said, you know, this is a valid concern. We can try to adjust your medication to see if there's one that would lessen these side effects for you. And apparently that's what led to this psychotic break, that other medication did not have the same effects on his mental stability as the previous medication that he was on for nearly six years, according to these sources. And he gave that up just to try and lose some of this weight. Okay, Sydney, I've got another question for you. You know, you are reeling this off as if it's fact.

Have you considered the source of this information? Do you know the source? No, absolutely not. Because the only people that would know any of this would have to be the defense team. Right. So that's where you heard me say, sources claim. We don't know where this is coming from. And the people who are reporting this as fact, they're not revealing what that source is.

So, yes, it's all. all very suspect. This is best speculation because we don't know where this information is coming from. So Rob Schuter, the claimant is this is all overweight gain. Nobody wanted him to gain

weight, God forbid. Do you hear that? Do you hear how crazy, how ridiculous that is? It sounds crazy. It's being spun out by news sources. It sounds crazy because it is crazy.

And what we know about Nick looking into him, looking into his history, is he has been a very, very troubled man for a very, very long time. You played him on a podcast just a few moments ago. And he admitted on the podcast that he smashed up his mom and dad's guest house. In fact, he said the first thing in the house he smashed was the television, which is very interesting to me because that's where his parents and his grandparent became super, super famous. So he had rage there.

Nick has been an angry, toxic young man for a long time, long before he was frightened about gaining the weight. And so this story is ludicrous. It sounds ludicrous because it is. Guys, of course, our friend Harvey Levin, who, by the way, is also a lawyer, a very astute lawyer. He runs TMZ. Of course, he has rushed to the scene and is churning out a documentary. A TMZ documentary called TMZ's The Reiner murders what really happened. Interesting, Harvey, in case you're listening, that you already know what happened before there's been a single hearing on the evidence. Wonder where you're getting your information, Harvey.

But that said, listen to what Levin says. Before everyone knew, Nick was suffering from schizoaffective disorder. He was using meth. And that makes schizoaffective disorder even worse. and he had a violent outburst. Again, that's from the TMZ, The Reiner Murders, what really happened on Fox One. Question, back to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall.

The entire documentary is defense-fueled. It's all about the defense. I see this as a way to taint a jury pool. That said, what he just said fits hand in hand with what I'm arguing. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Was he using meth and it triggered a schizo-like episode? Did he have schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder and then used meth and exacerbated it?

I mean, any jury in their right mind is not going to forgive someone or give them a hall pass for double murder, which was triggered by their own voluntary use. of methamphetamine. You know, Nancy, I watched the documentary this morning, and I have to say when I was listening to Harvey Levin, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. In a case consultation, we would never, ever, ever talk about a patient like that. It's really premature to know if the schizophrenia or the attack. Wait a minute. I can't believe I'm in the position of defending Harvey Levin, but he is not Nick Reiner's shrink. Okay. So he's.

He's not bound by the same duty that you are. It's America, remember, we're not in communist China or Russia. He can say whatever he wants to. But he's putting a lot of information out there, like you said, that will taint the jury pool. But actually, also, he's making it sound so simplistic and so reductionistic. And we can't just say that because someone went off their medications and they became violent, it's usually a confluence of factors. What I'm going to say is the whole.

weight gain story makes absolutely no sense to me. From the standpoint that now when patients complain of weight gain on these psychotropic medications, we prescribe a GLP1, like think Munjaro or Ozempic, or metformin, which is a medication for type 2 diabetes. And these medications can be very effective in controlling the weight gain. You don't normally take somebody like Nick Reiner off a medication unless he's already becoming destabilized. So I would guess, I would hold this theory lightly, that he had started using, he was relapsing, he was using meth, and because of that,

they had to switch up medications because the other medications were no longer working. Okay? In program, in 12-step programs, what we teach our patients is when you pick up a drug, when you pick up alcohol, play it forward and try to anticipate the negative or dangerous consequences of your choices. Even our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ's documentary, TMZs, the Reiner murders, what really

happened, even though it's extremely defense-oriented and defense skewed, even Levin says the reason doctors change Reiner's meds was because he, Nick Reiner, was concerned that he was gaining weight. Listen. The reason doctors changed Nick's meds was weight gain. He was unhappy with his weight. TMZ, the Reiner murders.

Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle. They didn't deserve this. A son that they had spoon-fed every privilege possible. And they did everything they could with Nick. Tonight, Nick Reiner behind bars but thinks

he should get to go home. He thinks thinks he's the victim in this scenario. What is his life behind bars? Joining us there in L.A., Alexis Torres-Chuk, Crime Stories, Investigator, reporter. What about it? What can you tell me? So he has, he is in solitary confinement. He is not around any other inmates still for his protection.

He is no longer on suicide watch, but they are still checking on him every 15 minutes to make sure that he is okay. And then his day is just filled with nothing. He gets breakfast delivered at about six o'clock in the morning, five or six o'clock in the morning. Then lunch comes between 10.30 and 11. Both of these are cold meals, nothing fancy. And then dinner comes at six and it's a hot plate. And that's it. That's what he does.

That's his whole day. He has allowed, you know, he showered the day of his court hearing when we saw him in court last week. And he has had his haircut since he first appeared in court in December. But other than that, he's not doing anything. He's just in his cell, 23 hours a day. Put her up. Are you suggesting that it's that different from his life before? Did he have a job?

Was he a volunteer somewhere? Have I missed that? Because he pretty much did nothing before. So what do you mean? How was that different from his life before he was arrested? Well, before he was arrested, he was living at his parents' $13.5 million home in Renton, California, which is luxurious. I know that, but what was he doing?

You say he's got nothing to do. Well, what was he doing before, Alexis Tereschuk? Nothing. Well, he made a movie almost 10 years ago, but no, he did not have a job. He wasn't volunteering. He would go on various podcasts and talk about his life. But his parents were so concerned about him and his mental health that for a fun holiday party, they didn't even leave him at home.

They asked Conan O'Brien if they could bring him to the party. They couldn't even leave him alone. for two hours to go and enjoy a party. Joining me right now, Dr. Dwayne Hendricks, former warden, MDC. Brooklyn, also served warden, Sheridan in Oregon, former senior warden, U.S. Department of Justice with the Federal Bureau of Prisons,

the founder and president of a New Daylight Foundation, author of Who Are You? See it, say it, seize it. Dr. Hendricks, thank you for being with us. So let me understand something, Dr. Hendricks. He has three huts and a cot. In other words, three meals and a place to stay. Now, Alexis Tereschuk made much of the fact that two of those meals could be cold. That sounds like cereal and fruit in the morning with juice and a sandwich and chips at lunch.

So when she says cold, like it's the end of the world, it's not. Then he has a hot meal in the evening. He has practically unfettered right to see his lawyers. He has a right to go to a library. He has a right to see a spiritual counselor, if he wishes. He could likely see family, but I don't think they're visiting since he allegedly murdered his parents. She makes it sound like it's hell on earth.

It's not. In fact, hold on, Dr. Dwayne Hendricks. A lot of famous people have... survived the Twin Towers. If Paris Hilton could live there for a while, I think Nick Reiner will too. Robert Downey Jr., Iron Man, Harvey Weinstein, piece of crap. Let's see who else. The Game, Robert Durst, Conrad Murray convicted of killing Michael Jackson, Robert Durst. I don't know how many people he killed. James, Steve O, Danny Masterson from that 70's show, Eric Holder. Just so many people have been in Twin Towers and survived.

So Dr. Dwayne Hendricks, how bad is it? I don't think it is as bad as the L.A. County Jail. From all reports, they actually have a better food menu there at the Twin Towers. The other thing that I find interesting is that they have their own in-house psychiatry staff and mental house staff at this particular jail, which is unusual because at MDC Brooklyn and other jails that I'm aware of. Typically, you're psychiatrists and you have psychologists and those type of professionals. But for them to have their own in-house psychiatry staff, it tells me they're at a different level. as it pertains to their mental health treatment and their health care treatment for those individuals.

So I believe that this particular jail is probably a little bit more high-end than, you know, your L.A. County jail, Rikers Island, MDC. Brooklyn, and other places that we've talked about in the past. When Alexis Tereschuk says he has a cold breakfast and a cold lunch, that's not that bad if you're talking about,

cereal with milk and juice and fruit and a sandwich with chips? Is there something wrong with that, Hendricks? No, no, not at all. I mean, the national standards is for individuals to have at least one hot meal every three days if they're on lockdown. And obviously he's not. I mean, he's in some sort of solitary confinement. And I would beg to believe that it's more more of a mental health unit that they're probably keeping him without a cellmate. And whenever he goes out to whatever recreation they give him, you know, every couple of days or his shower or his phone calls, I'm sure he's being moved with multiple staff. And he's probably just not having any interactions with other, other inmates at the jail.

So, no, I don't think he's having a hard time there is the mental ward in the jail as compared to GP. Well, I mean, the thing about it is, you know, of course, being in jail itself can be mentally to, you know, cause mental issues, so to speak. Oh, you mean you get frustrated and lonely? I don't know that I would call that a mental issue, Hendricks. Well, I'll just say this. The fact that he's not in general population with the mental condition that he has will actually help both the defense and the prosecution in this case because documentation is going to be very important, especially upon his arrival, the meds that he was on, the evaluation that he had. I know their policy is for the individuals to see

the, I have a full physical and a mental health evaluation within 96 hours of their arrival. So the documentation, their decisions to put him on suicide watch, the decisions to take him on suicide watch, the decisions to keep him on the mental unit right now, I'm not sure if they're going to do an insanity plea or are they going to do any evaluation in that regard. But it's very important that they do all their, if they're saying they're going to be checking on them every 15 minutes, all that documentation is going to play a really key role. in this particular case because it's going to be a lot of back and forth in regards to his personal responsibility for these crimes. So he's got basically a private room

and he's got room service because where he is, they bring him his tray of food and then give him about an hour to eat a nice leisurely meal. Then they come back and collect the tray. Nick Reiner's getting room service. in his private room.

Sydney Sumner, I looked up the menus. You know what? Let me throw this to Rob Scheter. Sheeter, listen to this. Breakfast. Cereal, bread, cake, milk, coffee, fruit, fruit juice. Nobody brought me that this morning. Okay, lunch, dinner. Hamburgers, chicken, veggie patties, tacos, lasagna,

fish patties served with potatoes or fries. Special meals for dietary concerns. Wow, nobody's bringing me chicken or veggie patties or tacos or lasagna. I mean, really? And to hear Alexis Tereschuk tell it, he's having bread and water, that's simply not true. No, it's not true. They're eating fine in this prison. However, this is somebody who is used to eating lobster and caviar.

This is one of the most entitled, one of the most privileged. young men in that jail. And so it has to be a shock to his system. Do I feel sorry for him? Absolutely not, Nancy. But I don't think it is accurate to say that his life hasn't dramatically changed from the lap of luxury to a small prison cell. Wait, are you saying that he's not living in Daddy's poolhouse and getting a $10,000 a month allowance on top of the free car, the free home, the free gas, the free raid my sub-zero, refrigerator every night whenever you feel like it. Everything's free plus $10,000.

Yeah, I think this is different. Is there a reason it shouldn't be? It should be different. It has to be different. And I hope that he is aware of that. It just makes me so sad of the life that he squanded, Nancy. This is somebody who really did have it all. And now it has nothing.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Totally spun out on uppers. I think it was Coke and something else, and I was up for days on end, and I started punching out different things in my guest house. Like a frame? Like what? Like a stuff?

No, I think I started with the TV, and then I went over to the lamp, and then progressive, I just, everything in the guest house got wrecked. That from the dopey podcast. He was not crying. He was not upset. His face looked very clear. His head was completely shaved. He's aware of his actions. He's insane. A homicidal person who refuses to get sober who's gone to 18 rehab in 17 years. Joining us, Dr. Kendall Crowns. He is the chief medical examiner, Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth, never a lack of business. He is a star of a hit podcast, Mayhem in the Morg. And he is the esteemed lecturer at TCU's

Burnett School of Medicine. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Many people believe that, like we were told in the Coburger case, that the four students went to sleep and woke up in heaven. That's not what happened. One of the female victims was stabbed 30 times in the face. Her teeth were stabbed out as she fought for her life. Same thing here.

What did the multiple stab wounds, as well as the sleep, of their throats. What does that tell you, Dr. Kendall Kraz, about what happened? So usually when we see multiple stab wounds of this nature, it's always, almost always a homicide case. Occasionally you might see it in suicide. But what you're seeing is these individuals are attacked. They're laying in bed. Throats are slit. They're going to have a few minutes where they're going to survive as they're bleeding out. They're going to be in pain, depending on how deep their throats are slit, they may have had their trachea, which is their windpipe slit as well. So they're going to be inhaling blood while they're struggling to fight against whoever's stabbing them.

Now there's stab wounds, you know, coming to the chest and other areas of the body. They might be trying to fight back, getting defensive wounds of their hands and their forearms. And during this few minutes, while they're bleeding out in life is ebbing away and they're struggling against the assailant. before they pass out from loss of blood. They're feeling all the pain from these multiple stab wounds. And the thing is, is, you know, usually in meth amphetamine associated cases, we see this kind of overkill to the whole process where they just keep stabbing and stabbing. Even after they're dead, they'll continue to stab and leave more wounds on the body.

To Josh Coles Rood, veteran trial lawyer, joining us out of Phoenix. Josh, what do you believe will be gained from that motel room? I want to talk about the evidence. Do you think there was drug paraphernalia in the room which could defeat an insanity defense if it shows he was using drugs at that time that could defeat his claim that he did all of this because he was insane? Do you believe that his blood was drawn immediately at the time of arrest to show if drugs were in a system. A few days had passed since the murders with the drugs have dissipated. I mean,

what can we hope to glean from his backpack and from his hotel room? So the evidence that was seized is going to be very revealing. What's going to, what it's going to show is, number one, was this person using drugs? And they'll be able to tell through a variety of ways. Number one, they'll do blood draws to see exactly what was in his system and how much. Now, the blood draw doesn't exactly tell when drugs were used, but it does give us circumstantial evidence of how it was used and also how much was in his system at the time that the crimes took place. Typically, those results take between four and eight weeks before we can get them.

Now, they'll also look at other circumstantial evidence, such as what was discovered in his backpack. And they'll look at the drug paraphernalia. And they'll also test the drug paraphernalia for resin to see if it's consistent with methamphetamine use, crack cocaine, and other hard drugs to see if maybe he was using drugs at or near the time that he committed the murders. I believe that the book-in agent that booked him in the hotel is going to be a witness. I believe that possibly an Uber or taxi driver that drove him there, if there is one, is going to be a witness. I think that the hotel room, which, by the way, was oceanfront with a beautiful view, I think that evidence gleaned from that room could tell us, did he wash his hair, did he brush his tea, what happened to his old clothing? Should we trace his route to look for the weapon?

Is there drug paraphernalia in the room? Is there drug paraphernalia or drugs in his backpack? What is revealed in his blood? This investigation is going in 1,000 different directions right now. The state is building its case, as is the defense. If you know or think you know anything about this case, please dial toll-free. 800-22-2-8-4-77 repeat. 800-22-8-4-77. We remember an American hero, Deputy Constable Aaron Armstrong, Caldwell County's constables, Texas,

shot dead in the line of duty, leaving behind his grieving parents. American hero, Deputy Constable, Aaron Armstrong. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.