Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Nolans Wells Autopsy Furor as FBI Swoops in

Episode Date: July 25, 2026

Questions of how Nolan Wells dies multiple as the results of an independent autopsy are  revealed. The pathologist who conducted the second autopsy rules Nolan Wells’ cause and manner of death are “undetermined,” pending investigation.  The FBI has joined the investigation as family lawyer, Ben Crump,  says foul play could not be ruled out.  What do Nolan's friends, with him on the island say?  Joining Nancy Grace today: Josh Kolsrud  - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, Co-Host of the Podcast: "No Contest", website: kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices  Dr. Bethany Marshall -  Psychoanalyst,  Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away". featured on the hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock and "The Valley, Persian Style" on Bravo,    Netflix and Hulu,.  Host   "On The Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall,"   Website: drbethanymarshall.com, Instagram FB & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter:@DrBethanyLive Brian Trascher  - Vice President of the United Cajun Navy, https://unitedcajunnavy.org/ Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", YouTube Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,  Caitlyn Becker - Senior National Correspondent at the New York Post,  Host of podcast: ‘NYPostCast’   Dave Mack  -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Nolan Wells Autopsy Furrar. This as the FBI swoops in.

Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. I find it very difficult to believe that not one, but two, medical examiners cannot figure out why he had deep red subcutaneous markings. And this is significant. Focal area of red discoloration in the soft tissue. of the back of the head, the occipital region.

He said the ideology is unknown at this time. He said the body was received after the initial autopsy. He said the body had marked decompensation. Another limitation faced by this forensic pathologist was the absence of the anterior and internal neck structures. neck structures. The trachea and the larynge cartilage,

the thyroid horn, and the hyoid bone were not received with the body. So he's saying that the throat was not received with the body

when he got Nolan Wells body in Washington, D.C. to perform the second autopsy. The only question that we have is what happened to our son. That is the only question. We have consistently been degraded by the public. There's been questions about our parenting, our GoFundMe, this, that and other, I've been

called a racist. I am a health care provider, and I take my job very seriously. I love everyone. And it's just, it's been difficult for us, but we are leaning into our faith, leaning into one another, also leaning into all of you. You were saying family attorney Ben Crump, followed by Nolan Wells's mother speaking, dear Lord in Heaven, what is wrong with people? If this were your child, wouldn't you want to know what happened? he goes out with friends, they all come back, he's dead. I don't understand the hate directed toward Nolan's family and to everyone looking for answers.

At this hour, I don't think anyone is guilty, but I do know that there is a conflict, a conflict in the stories, and we are not stopping until we know what happened to Nolan Wells. So you can send all the hate and vitriol you want. Have at it. That from our friends over at NAACP, straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan. We got an all-star panel lined up to analyze what's happening at this hour. As we are learning, the FBI has swooped into this investigation.

and that is not disparaging local law enforcement, although they did apparently jump the gun at the get-go and say no foul play suspect foul play. Because I don't know any differently. Maybe it will turn out to all be an accident. But as of right now, we need a full-on investigation. Joe Scott Morgan, before I give your very, very long intro bio, where's the throat?

I know we have deep red markings on the occipital bone that's in the back of the... Thank you. This is directly from the autopsy. We want you to see what the family has seen. Don't you think Joe Scott Morgan that the second medical examiner might need the throat to figure out what happened? I mean, Joe Scott, it's on fire, claims that Nolan Wells has... had been lynched, that he had been strangled, asphyxiated? Do I believe a lynching occurred?

No, I do not believe that. But I do know I need to see the neck. Yeah, and let me tell you where the neck is. Or the organs of the neck, as it's referred to. These neck structures are actually being held by the Mississippi State Medical Examiner's Office. And they don't just arbitrarily hold things like this, Nancy. This is something that would commonly go with the body when the body is released. So I deduce the fact that they have seen something there that they're trying to hold on to from an evidentiary value.

Remember, the state still has an ongoing investigation in this case. And they see evidentiary value in this. And yes, I know that the second autopsy pro sector up in D.C. would have liked to have seen this. but he understands this, why they would retain it. And it is being retained. I can promise you that as are other tissue samples. But the problem is, is that when you get into these structures in the neck,

one of the things you're trying to assess is, was this a drowning? Also, is there any kind of trauma? People will just put their hands right here in the middle line of your neck. You'll feel that kind of cartilaginous body there, that's cartilage, right? That can be fracture. Need I remind you, Epstein, right? So you have to examine this.

Also, here's our word, Nancy. They're talking about the hyoid is missing as well. So they don't have that. Show me, Joe Scott, Morgan, because show me, Joe Scott. You and I, hyoid, we know what it is because you and I have handled a ton of asphyxiation, ligature, manual, strangulations, you name it. Hyoid, explain. So delicate.

Yeah, and it's very, very far up the neck, Nancy. And one of the things that happens is that with the hyoid, it's generally only traumatized as a result of direct pressure that's generally applied by a throttling event, our C clamp like this, throttling meaning like this. So manual strangulation. And an outlier here is ligature strangulation, but primarily hands on. So they're looking for little fractures in here all along the way. So that has to be dissected along with these other. a couple of other structures that you look at as well. They've held on to this for some reason.

I don't have the answer for that, but I can tell you it's being preserved. I don't know if they're getting further consultation on their end. That is the state. And I'm sure that... Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Joe Scott, you're giving me so much information.

Let me tell everybody if they don't know who you are, why you're here tonight. Okay. Joe Scott Morgan is a death investigator. He has investigated over 10,000 death scenes of all nature. You've only got a few choices. You've got homicide, suicide, accident, natural causes like a heart attack, and unexplained. Tonight, we've got two unexplained medical examiner's reports.

Why? We don't have the lungs in a potential drowning case. Why? We don't have the neck in a potentialing, as you said, throttling case. Why? Those are the two main things I want to see. Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, with a world-class criminal procedure department. I've toured it myself. He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and he is a star of a hit podcast, Body Baggs with Joe Scott Morgan and so much more.

But that would take the whole program. Joe Scott, really? with allegations floating, very incendiary allegations of lynchings, of throttlings, of ligatures. The main thing I want to see, the lungs and the neck, and they're both missing. I have a problem. Well, I don't know that the lungs are necessarily missing. Let me tell you how this works. They have done sections of the lungs at the M.E.'s office in Mississippi.

Now, the one thing that is included in this report relative to the second autopsy that's been released is that the doctor here, who is a fantastic doctor, highly credentialed, knows what he is doing, former chief medical examiner for DC. He is stating that he has taken tissue samples. He repeats this over and over again in the report. He submitted this for his own histology. Why is that important? Well, if you get into the lungs, that lung tissue, and he can identify it even in it, I'm going to be real graphic here, it arrived in a bag, okay? So he would have to pick through this fine lung tissue in there and then sample that.

And he's going to be looking microscopically for signs of drowning there. And he'll make his own assessment. One of the things I'm concerned about, Nancy, and I hope that they did this down in Mississippi, is that when they do this initial examination, did they do? diatom testing, which is you're looking for these little bits of algae that are distinct to both freshwater and salt water. If you find that within the system, that's also an indication that the individual may have been submerged and taken on water. So right now, we've got a lot of questions, but as the second doctor says, this is all still pending investigation. There's no shortcut for

saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I'm trying to digest and make sense of everything Joe Scott Morgan just told me, but what I know is that I don't have the lungs and a potential drowning and I don't have the neck and a potential throttling, as he called it. And, And again, Joe Scott, we don't have evidence of any strangulation, be it manual or ligature, except that deep red discoloration. And I read in the autopsy report, it was about 12 by 8. How can that be?

Explain to me what they're talking about. Yeah, can we please put that drawing up that the dock rendered there? You know something interesting about that, that Mark, Nancy. This thing has got kind of, as he has drawn it out here, that red indication that he's done with a pen on this anatomical diagram. And you see, that's got what is referred to as kind of specific margins, doesn't it? It almost appears as though there is a pattern there. And it extends if folks at home will take their hand and put it on that kind of bony prominence in the back of your head, that's called your occipate. Okay, that's where the occipital bone is.

So it looks like it's just beneath there. So right along that edge, this thing's got margins. It almost looks like it could potentially have a pattern, hard to say. But do you see how he has it drawn out there? It's almost like a rectangular shape. When you talk about decomposition, which he does extensively here, and he says he can't make a full assessment because of the status of the decomposition. Decomposition is what's called diffuse.

That means it kind of spreads out randomly. what he has drawn there, at least from his estimation there, or his rendering that he's done there, puts margins on this thing. You've got a top in, a bottom in, and you've got sides. Okay, you know, all that said, what does it mean? Because to me, Dr. Kendall Crowns, who I respect deeply, by the way, suggesting it was blood pooling, I'm not buying that because it's nowhere else. We don't see that anywhere else on the body.

Hey, Caitlin Becker joining me, senior national correspondent at New York Post. She is a star of New York Postcast, like podcast, but postcast. Caitlin, thanks for being with us tonight. Caitlin, I had it out with Dr. Kendall Crowns yesterday. He has superior knowledge, so I was at a disadvantage,

but I'm still sticking to my guns. I don't see how the blood in his body can pull in one location on the whole back of his body, even if he's laying on his back. Hold, hold, hold. Brian Schrasher, Vice President, United Cajun Navy, Brian, isn't it true that when Nolan was found,

he was face down, repeat, face down on the beach, just at the water's edge. And let's see the aerial video when I'm talking to Brian, so everybody can see what he's talking about. Go ahead, Brian. Yes, ma'am. was face down on the beach right at the water's edge. I'm not sure if he was spotted still floating and they brought him in or if he washed up right there, but I can only describe where I saw him

as we flew over the island. Brian Trasher, based on the photo that I received from an undisclosed source, he was face down, almost as if he were asleep with one leg slightly out to the side. Okay, face down. Do you agree with that? Brian? Yes, ma'am. That's correct. Okay. Back to Caitlin Becker's

Senior National Correspondent, New York Post, star of New York Postcast, Caitlin, what can you tell me about claims that his body was sent to the second

autopsy, the independent autopsy face down? There seems to be a lot of questions about how Nolan's body was received, found, sent. If he was sent face down, that also doesn't make sense to me for the claim that it would be blood pooling in the back of his head because if he's face down, wouldn't blood pool just by nature of gravity this way if he was found face down.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense. But as I was listening to you and Joseph Scott Morgan talk, I mean, I don't know the terrain here, but if they're keeping the throat for a potential throttling and, you're, you see this mark on the back of the head. If you're thinking in terms of someone's head pressed up against it, if there's something behind my head and you're pressing me this way. But by not knowing the manner or cause of death, we're kind of jumping to a conclusion there.

So it just seems like every single layer there is more questions than answers. And the mark on the back of the head and not seeing in the autopsy report that there were really marks or signs of trauma anywhere else was really particularly curious. I mean, why just there? what caused it. And we don't really have those answers about whether or not there was significant trauma to the flip of that to the front because, as you said, Roe wasn't sent for the second autopsy. So back to you, Joe Scott Morgan, I'm going to bring in the rest of the panel in just one moment. Joe Scott, how could the deep reddened markings at the back of the

back of the head, the occipital, how could that come from the blue, the black of the head, the occipital? How could that come from the blood sinking down post-mortem. First, he was face down, so it would sink to the, the blood would go to his face. That would be the lowest point. But after that, after he's dead for a period of days, I don't see how the blood could then continue to pull in a different direction. And we are getting reports that he was sent to the, exactly, to the second autopsy, face down.

I find that hard to believe, but that's according to reports. Yeah. And so understand this with decomposition, okay? Like I said, it's going to be diffuse. And this second autopsy, I don't know if people are aware of this, but you can read through the report itself. And it's very, let's see, it's very, very graphic in the sense that this doctor that did this case, that did the follow-up.

He did such an extensive dissection here. I'm talking about stuff that we don't normally do at autopsy. He's done the back. He's done the buttocks. He's done the backs of the legs, the arms, the hands, even the back of the head. He took this even further than the people in Mississippi did. And this is something that we normally do so folks understand.

This is something we normally do with an in-custody death. all right, where it is this extensive. And he doesn't see anything from a hemorrhagic standpoint, like direct trauma. The big question is this pattern on the back of his head. And I'm calling it a pattern because of the way he's demonstrated this with his diagram on the back of this thing. And he doesn't go into great detail about that in the autopsy report. So how did it get there? What I want to know is all these witnesses are right there.

here, Brian Trasher, don't like planes have a tail number. Can't you identify who these boats are by their markings, by their numbers, by their identification? They've got names written on the side. They've got tail numbers, so to speak. Have all of these people been brought in? I mean, tell me how to identify a boat and how to locate the driver and bring them in for questioning about what happened that day. because listen, Brian, the friends say we left him with Katie. Katie apparently has been found and says, no, he left with his friends. Okay, right there, I've got a problem.

How did everybody leave Gilligan on the island, waving, hey, I'm here, and they all left him? I find that hard to believe. I've got to find out what precipitated him going into the water. how that fits in with the marking on the back of his neck. Do you see where I'm going, Trasher? Absolutely. And yes, to answer your first question, you know, some of these boats, just by the names, people that name the boats.

And if you can detect registration numbers, if it's registered in the state of Mississippi, that's easy to find. I'm told that over 60 people have been interviewed by law enforcement. I don't know who they are or how they were brought in. But there was a lot of interviews that have been conducted. I'm assuming there's going to be more. Yeah, with regards to, you know, what happened, that's always been the question. That's why his parents want to know.

There's just absolute black hole from about 4.30 p.m. on July 4th until he washed up Monday morning, where nobody seems to know anything. Nobody seems to have seen anything. There's conflicting stories, as you pointed out, from his friends and people that saw him that day about who he was supposed to leave with. Did he want to stay back? All that. It's all hearsay.

It's all secondhand. And so, yeah, there is a massive. massive hole in the story. And that's why this has gotten national attention that it's gotten. As far as the markings on his head, I mean, I was told by some of the people who recovered the body that it was obviously come in contact with marine life while he was in the water. I'm not sure if that's possible explanation of those markings. I'm just telling you what I thought so experts can weigh in on it. Brian, Brian, hold on. Joe Scott, I'm going to try to get a quick answer from you on that because it's valid what treacher just said is valid because if

there were if his body had been attacked by marine life you know fish turtles whatever that would be all over the body what we're talking about is deep raddening of tissue subcutaneous tissue on the back of the head unlike the rest of the body so that is not the same as the decomp on the rest of the body is something. I mean, why is it so hard for everybody to get? We've got a problem with the back of the head. It's marked unlike any other part of his body. And, and you said something very significant, Joe Scott Morgan, that the original medical examiner kept the throat for a reason. Did he, she keep the hand, the fingers, the toes? No, because they weren't probative. They didn't prove anything. The neck proved something. what? What do the neck prove? That's where I'm going. Help me. Yeah, well, either to include or exclude any kind of trauma that could have impeded his ability to breathe. There's another part to this, Nancy,

that I forgot to mention relative to the neck. We have what are called strap muscles that kind of lay over the center part of the neck. What do we look for there? Well, that's also where we see hemorrhage relative to any kind of pressure that's applied there. You'll see those. The doctor doesn't mention anything about strap muscles because I think that those were probably retained as well. Now, back to the sea life. I'm from Louisiana. I can tell you what type of sea life would have affected his body. And if the body was right there on the shore, it would be crabs. And the reason I know that is because this is where they kind of feed, if you will. all right so you don't hear any mention by the second medical examiner talking about any kind of degrading of the body as result of contact with marine life that's feasting an post-bordom state we had roughly 20 to 30 people coming on three separate boats with us and so we were all following each other out there as one big group you know it wasn't just me and nolan and a couple of my buddies there was 20 or 30 people that spread out where we all met at the dock before and then we departed to go to horn island it wasn't

just a couple of us i mean we were there were so many people we had to split up between three votes and we all left and all got there at the same time and that is from our friends i read the officer tatum show and that is warren hudson's and acquaintance of nolan wells he was in the horn island group are you hearing what i'm hearing josh coles root i mean i don't know if this happened to you in law school, but it makes you think differently out of that whole thing. I heard this. 20 to 30 witnesses. 20 to 30 witnesses. Josh Coles Rood, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney, former assistant U.S. attorney, founder Coles Rood Law Offices, and star a podcast, no contest at coalsruidlawoffices.com. 20, 30 witnesses. That's what I just heard.

Absolutely. You know, this is going to be a huge investment. investigation. It already is. You know, one of the questions that I've seen online about the friends is that, you know, why do they leave him? And, but let me ask you something hard, you know, those that are saying that, you know, look what we're talking about. You know, we're not talking about hardened men. These are teenagers, they're kids. They're 18, 19 years old on the water on the 4th of July. And, you know, what happens when a teenager experiences something traumatic? You know, they freeze, they panic, they go numb. Sometimes they cry, sometimes they don't. But, you know, what they're not, they're not experts at, like, dredging the waterways. And, you know, I know that the family wants answers from the friends, you know, and I get that.

And, you know, one of the family members said, you know, are they getting their lies straight when they went back to the mainland and called for a cab? But, you know, we don't know what happened yet. And one of the things that I'm really looking forward to seeing is the data from the cell phones, right? Because that'll tell us exactly where everybody was at what point in time, and including hopefully the victim. Now, you know, that's another question. You know, how did they obtain the victim's phone? Well, it was in one of the hands of his friends.

So how did that come there? So, you know, there are a lot of answers. There's a lot of questions here, Nancy, that we need answers to. And right now, we don't know if it was an accident. We don't know if it was a death. We just don't know. Caitlin Becker, who called who that night? Did Mom call the friends?

Did the friends call the Mom? How did Mom end up looking for Nolan? It seems like Mom was on the case pretty immediately when Nolan didn't. She had him on Life 360. So I think that became the biggest kind of issue of where's my son, where's his phone? And the only thing she could go off of is where's his phone, which she could locate through kind of Life 360 where it was pinged. So it seemed like she was on the hunt for the phone there.

And from all of the accounts that we've been reporting on, the phones were left in the boat because they didn't take them to the shore. However, you can see all of those people were back and forth on the boat. So clearly they were using them. but the phone was on the boat that went back without Nolan first. So it seems that the friends took the phone with them to their house and then what happened with it between then and when his mom got it seemed to be the question of where it was and who was touching it,

who was using it, what was done on it. But it seems like the location on the Life 360 is how mom tracked down the phone when she realized that her son wasn't where he needed to be. So that night, Nolan doesn't come home. Mom, Christine, starts looking for him. She is a family nurse practitioner. She starts looking for him. She looks on Life 360 and follows it.

You can get that on Life 360. Show me the route to the phone. And she did that to the friend's house that had all been out to Horn Island. And she's like, and she goes, where's no one? His phone's here, but he's not here? And they go, yeah, it's out there in the truck.

So they wait 15 minutes to go get the phone and come back with it. Everybody's just sitting there in the dark watching TV. Nobody said, hey, where's no one? Nobody said that until she came over looking for the phone. which could kind of point to, if I'm hearing it, it could kind of point to two things. I knew there's a plenty, there's a huge faction online saying, what are they doing? What are they covering up? What are they hiding?

But then on the flip of that, just to play devil's advocate, if you don't think there's anything wrong with your friend, if you assumed your pal was in another boat with another group of friends, why would you even think to be concerned about that until his mom comes knocking at the door and says, where's my son? So, I mean, like the teen behavior, it reminds me so much of the teen or the young people in the Idaho murder case, just looking at them to be like, why are they not reacting the way you would think someone would react in a situation? And while the circumstances are so wildly different, I think we have to remember that we're talking about, you know, teenagers here and teenagers who

were leaving in a large group who admittedly were drinking, who were partying in three separate boats. So I think it might have been easy to lose track of one another. That doesn't explain anything, though. That doesn't explain why no one not out of one person out of that 20 to 30 said to themselves, where the heck is Nolan? I mean, if you and I were out with 20 to 30 of our friends, someone at some point probably would have raised, you know, scratch their head and said, where's Nancy? Have you heard from Nancy all day if it had gone to that point of the night? I assume his phone had a password. There are certain things that you need the password to do, such as delete activity. But if you don't have a password and you pick up your phone,

if you're touching the screen, that leaves a trace. If you're trying to power it off, that leaves a trace. So we should be able to see people without a password trying to actively interact with that phone as well as someone that has it. So we would do a forensic acquisition, and that's really important here. Someone just looking in the phone, you can get a glimpse, but you can't see what's deleted and hiding below the surface. We need a forensic acquisition to do that. We can tell if it was just soft deleted, so like sitting in a trash can or a hard delete. So if you empty your trash on your phone and then you go and throw it into a dumpster and the trash is taken away, There is a log that tracks everything.

Also with timestamps on when that activity occurred. If you get a full file system acquisition, and I realize that's really nerdy. But this is where acquisition and time to evidence matters. Deleted data exists and sits there for a period of time. So time to evidence is everything here. Apple's more forgiving and you have about 30 days with Android. You could have just a few days until location artifacts are purged. That's Heather Barnhart, Digital Forens.

expert. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Belair Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

To Dave Mac, I want to, before we launch into the phone tracking and the phone investigation, I want to clarify something. I understood that Warren Hudson, one of Nolan's friends, called the mom around 1107 telling her Nolan was missing. Now, which is it? Did the mom call the friends or follow the Life 360

or did the friend Warren Hudson call the mom? Christine Wansley, Nolan's mother, says she received a phone call from Warren Hudson. Now, she identified him by first name during one of the press conferences and interviews, okay? Now, she has not disclosed what the entire details of that call were, but we know that right after that conversation from Warren calling Christine that Christine contacted a friend who had two sons who had also been with Nolan to ask if they had seen him. It was after that call that the family began checking Nolan's location through Life 360 and Snapchat, and that's where we end up with the discrepancy of locations.

We also learned tonight the FBI has been called in. Anything that you can get us? Okay. Are y'all, can I confirm that you're working with the FBI with the case? Yes. Okay. Any other agencies that you're working with at this time? All right.

And is this case still under investigation? It is actively under investigation. Okay. So I was told by the district attorney, everything is going through her office at this time. And everything else should be referenced to the district department's office. Okay. You know, Caitlin Becker joining me, Senior National Correspondent in New York Post, I just learned two very important things.

Number one, the FBI is involved. Why? And number two, at the outset, I understand that local law enforcement first said that no foul play is suspected. It was a simple drowning, if there is such thing. But now the FBI is in, and... everything's being referred to the district attorney. Is that correct? From what we understand, our reporting says the exact same thing,

that the district attorney is dealing with everything. This is going to go to a grand jury, which we understand is very typical, especially in this area. I think it's typical pretty much everywhere if you have a suspicious unnatural death that something would go to a grand jury. The local police do seem like they may have jumped the gun in calling this a simple drowning with,

however exactly that they worded it, you know, just a drowning with no foul play suspected. That doesn't say there was no foul play at all or there couldn't be or they're not investigating. But to just write this off as no foul play suspected off the bat, I think got everyone's kind of hackles up. And I think that's particularly something that the family didn't want to hear. You have a strong swimmer, young guy, athletic person who went out, didn't come home and no one had saw him struggling. you didn't see him go in the water and struggle. That's a simple drowning. We saw someone go in. We tried to help. They drown. That to me is a case closed, simple drowning. But now the feds are involved and the FBI is involved, perhaps because there is more to it than it seems.

Right. Josh Coles-Reed, I got a question for you. The FBI is now part of this investigation. That is significant. The FBI is only brought in under certain circumstances. That is within in the state jurisdiction, and this thing has mushroomed from no foul place suspected to the DA is handling all of this. And I'd like to point out that the sheriff was not responding. Well, guess what, everybody? When I would be besieged by reporters when I was prosecuting case, you're not at liberty to comment on an ongoing investigation as much as we on the outside looking at him feel stymied

I'm surprised the law enforcement officer even stopped to talk to the journalist WDSU because they shouldn't be revealing evidence. So don't make it look like he's hiding in his office. He should not be revealing evidence. That said, address, this is now at the district attorney level and the FBI is in. That's what I need you for, Coles Rude. Yeah, so great question. Well, let's separate the two.

The district attorney works for the state. The FBI works for the US Attorney's Office. Now, just because there's a homicide does not make this a federal case. So ask yourselves, why would the FBI be here? Well, there's two possible reasons. Number one, we know that the family has hired a very prominent civil rights attorney. And there might be a civil rights component here. And civil rights always includes the federal government.

So if, for example, there is an allegation that the local law enforcement didn't do something or there's a racial component to them not doing something, that of course can bring in the U.S. Attorney's Office. The second reason the FBI could be brought in is that this small town just can't, needs help with his resources, right? They don't have the manpower for this type of investigation. And we've already seen that they've had a couple of missteps with the media, like you just said where they want to be closed lips,

lipped with the investigation without giving some type of... It's not just missteps with the media. They said this was a natural causes, accident,

no foul play. That's more than a misstep. That's a COD. Cause of death, manner of death. The FBI has been brought into work with law enforcement. And you know what, Dr. Bethany, Marshall, joining me, we're now psychoanalyst out of L.A. She's an author. She's on Bravo. She's on Peacott, Star of a New Hit Podcast, on the couch with

Dr. Bethany Marshall. You know, I don't like the way Coles Rood just said that. They're from a small town. They need help. Well, you know what? Not every jurisdiction is New York, L.A., Houston, Atlanta. they don't have this type of investigation all the time. So I commend them for bringing in the FBI. Okay? That said, Dr. Bethany, I want to find out if every single person has been brought in and questioned separately. I want to hear your take on what you're seeing.

Hey, Nancy, in terms of Poles route, he gets paid a lot of money to muddy the waters, so at least he's doing his job. In turn, there's very important behavioral evidence that is not being discussed. I don't hear it online in any news reports. And that is, is there empathy for the victim? In a forensic interview, that's one of the number one things we look for is like, oh, my God, where did he go? Somehow we lost sight of him. In the online chatter, there's a lot of digital evidence here.

Are the kids communicating back and forth saying, I don't know. Did we lose him? What happened? He was my best friend. I can't sleep. You know, that is what we want to look for in terms of innocence. In terms of guilt, what we would look for is lack of empathy towards the victim. Like, ah, he was always drinking too much.

It's his fault. He didn't get on the boat. We never liked him anyway. Attempts to rationalize, attempts to form a cohesive. story amongst co-conspirators, that is going to come out in the digital evidence, because at this point, I'm sure the investigators have separated every possible perpetrator. Joe Scott, also missing in addition to the neck are the lungs. Don't you think that would be an important aspect of a potential drowning case? Yeah, yeah, it is. And just so that we understand,

those lungs have been dissected. So there was an organ bag that came with the body to DC. The attending that the family retained actually did histos samples from all of the tissues there. He even states that in his report. Now, I think that what he is saying and what you have to understand, there's no way after following an autopsy, an initial autopsy, that you can see the lungs intact. They have to be dissected.

They've been previously dissected. those lungs probably accompanied the body in that back, unless, of course, they've retained the lungs as well. And that remains to be seen at this point. Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter. Can he shed any light on it, Dave? See, what we're seeing is that Dr. Roger Mitchell, who was the independent pathologist doing the second autopsy on Nolan,

reported that he did not have access to the lungs or airway structures when conducting the family requested independent autopsy? The lungs, the neck, very disturbing. They are critical. They've got to be analyzed by the independent medical examiner. And that's not saying the first medical examiner was wrong. But that's going to hold the key to the cause and manner of death, I believe. And back to you, Brian Trasher, what can you tell me about an offer to the family

regarding cadaver dogs. Yeah, so, you know, obviously the online chatter started right away. People were coming up with all kind of bizarre theories about how he was, you know, he came back to the island, they took him back out there and dumped him all this kind of stuff. So we just said, hey, one of our top, you know, canine teams happens to be in Jackson, in Jackson County, Mississippi, Jackson County Canine is their name. I said, we'll be happy to have these cadaver dogs go over and inspect the boat. And we told us to Crump's legal team.

And so we'll have to go inspect the boat and they'll be able to tell if there's decomp on that boat. And they said, oh, well, we heard they cleaned the boat. I said, no, there's only one chemical that you could, you could possibly get rid of decomp with. And I guarantee these people don't know what it is. So there's no way they could be a month later. These dogs would be able to smell the decomp. And they would also have Nolan sent if he was on the boat alive. They would also know if there was a dead body on that boat.

And they declined. They said, no, we don't think so. So I'm not sure why they didn't want to dispel that right away. we would have known right away if the dead body had been on that boat. Okay, Crump, why aren't you allowing the cadaver dog team onto that boat? We need to know. You know, Brian Trazier, you made it sound very mysterious. What is the solution used to get rid of human decomposition?

I'm not going to say that on the air. It might be somebody watching that's trying to hide a dead body as we speak. Are you referring to myriatic acid? No. It's a specific kind of product that's on the market that is used. Matter of fact, some of our team just went through a training in Texas, and one of the things they did was show them how to clean out a vehicle or something that had decomp on it with this particular solution.

And they would have to take screws off, and they would have to be very detailed if they were trying to hide something. So there's virtually no way that the dogs would not have picked this up. Did they give any explanation as to why they didn't want the cadaver dogs on the boat? there could be an explanation. Did they give one? Not to us, they didn't. No, we just assume that, you know, again, I'm speculating,

but if we would have known right away that there was no dead body on that boat, it might have defeated some narratives that were being pushed out there at the time. The investigation goes on. And for all of the detractors on either side, we're not stopping. So you're wasting your time. As the case is being built, remember, if you know or think you know anything regarding this case, please dial 228-769-3063. If this were your child, wouldn't you want the answers?

Even if it brings down the roof of the courthouse? I would. Tonight, we remember an American hero, Sergeant Jeremy Brown, Clark County Sheriff's Washington, shot in the line of duty, leaving behind wife Jill and five children. American hero, Sergeant Jeremy Brown. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.

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