Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - NOTORIUS BALI SUITCASE KILLER KILLS U.S. GIRLFRIEND'S MOM WITH FRUIT BOWL, STUFFS HER IN LUGGAGE, WALKS FREE TO ENJOY LIFE?

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

A family vacation to Bali turns deadly. Sheila von Wiese-Mack found bludgeoned to death inside a suitcase. The socialite's 25-year-old daughter Heather Mack and her 21-year-old then-boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer charged and convicted by an Indonesian court. Police say Schaefer bludgeoned von Wiese-Mack with a bowl and then he and Mack stuffed her body into a suitcase and attempted to flee the scene. Heather Mack was pregnant at the time and gave birth to a daughter in prison.  After serving seven years in Indonesia for her role in the 2014 murder,  Mack was released from the Indonesian prison and returned to the United States, where she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to kill a U.S. national and was sentenced to 26 years in prison in June 2023. Schaefer was sentenced in Indonesia to 18 years in prison, but after receiving time off for good behaviour, he has been released from a Bali jail. The 33-year-old still faces US federal charges. He has pled not guilty to conspiracy to kill someone in a foreign country, conspiracy to commit murder and obstruction of justice. He says, despite a judge's warning, he intends to represent himself.  A trial date has been set for January 2027. If convicted, Schaefer faces a possible life sentence.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (October 2021) bw-institute.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Kristy Mazurek - Emmy Award-winning Investigative Reporter, President of Successful Strategies PR and Crisis Communications Firm     Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Do you remember the evil daughter, Heather Mack? Heather Mack had police called multiple times. I'm talking a dozen times to her mom's upscale home because she was beating and terrorizing her mother that fed her with a silver spoon gave her every advantage possible. Yes, her, Heather Mack. Her mother was found contorted, squashed into a suitcase oozing blood in Bali at a taxi stand.

Needless to say, dead. But Heather Mack didn't murder her own mother all by herself. She had her lover helper, the infamous Bali suitcase killer who killed his American girlfriend, and Heather Mack's mother with a fruit bowl and stuffed her inside a suitcase. Why? So the two of them, minions from hell,

could get a hold of mom's $2 million trust fund. He has walked free. And he says he plans to enjoy life. You know, I'm always surprised. You'd think by now I would be a completely jaded

heart of stone, but I'm always surprised. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. His name is Tommy Schaefer, and he just walked out of Corobican Prison, about 12 p.m.

After just about half of the sentence to which he was sentenced for the brutal murder. of his then-girlfriend Heather Mack's mother. I'm just, I'm just, I'm disgusted. As he walked out of prison, he proudly announced he was feeling, quote, happy, and that he plans to, quote, enjoy life. Now, the victim in this case, a beautiful mom, Sheila Weiss Mack, booked a vacation with her teen daughter Heather.

It was a luxury vacation at the famous St. Regis Resort in Bali. She wanted to try and mend her fractured relationship with her Hellian daughter that beat her up all the time. Sheila's friends were afraid for her life because of her daughter. She was just abusive. Um, technical legal term. F-in-brat Oh, who said that?

Oh, it was me. I can't even blame Jackie for that. Sheila had hoped the trip would repair their relationship. Their tensions had escalated. You know, I said a dozen or dozen times. Police were called to their suburban Chicago home 80 times, 80 times with the daughter beating the mom, unbeknownst to Sheila, her daughter, Helian, secretly invited her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer,

using her mother's credit card to buy a $12,000 first-class flight for Schaefer. What started this turn of events? Take a listen. Two neighbors who did not want to go on camera tell me that Sheila von Wies-Mack lived inside this Oak Park home for many, many years, but she moved about a year ago selling it to a developer. While this morning, neighbors here are horrified to hear of her murder. Police officials say the remains were stuffed into a suitcase and found on the Indonesian resort island of Bali. The discovery was made Tuesday.

The body was inside the trunk of a taxi parked in front of the upscale St. Regis Hotel. She was half naked with wounds to her head, according to police. Half naked, beaten about the head. her bloody bodies crammed into a suitcase and left outside of a hotel. I bet the St. Regis wasn't too happy to see a suitcase with blood easing out. You were just hearing reporter Jessica DeNofrio, ABC 7. We're talking about the murdered victim, but who was the murdered victim in life? Sheila von Wies Mack.

Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Friends describe Sheila von Weiss Mack as a lovely and cultured woman. well connected politically. Before her marriage, she was a political science student at Simmons College in Boston. She took a job working for Senator Ted Kennedy, doing research and other odd jobs. She told friends she even poured tea for Rose Kennedy a time or two. After leaving Senator Kennedy's camp, Sheila went to work for Jackie Kennedy. While studying for a PhD at the University of Chicago, she was friends with famed novelist Saul Bello, who was awarded a Pulitzer Prize, the Nobel Prize for Literature, and the National Medal of Arts.

Wow, that's pretty impressive. So that's the mom that's found stuffed in a suitcase, but who is Heather Mack's father? Listen to this. James Mack was a well-known educator, composer, and arranger. He first taught jazz studies at Crane Junior College, Chicago's oldest city college. Mack is credited for teaching a generation of up-and-coming musicians

who would go on to become internationally famous, including some of the founding members of Earthwind and Fire and others who were longtime session players for Muddy Waters, B.B. King, Phil Collins, and others. He also moonlighted as an arranger and producer for record labels, including Chess, Capitol and Columbia, and served as a guest conductor for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Mack already had a son and four daughters by two previous marriages when he married Sheila von Weiss, 22 years, his junior, at the age of 66, despite having health problems, Mac became a new dad. Wow. So both parents brilliant in their own way. She, a very culture, sophisticated, educated woman, married to a jazz star, a composer, and arranger. You know, before I introduce the whole panel, I just got to ask you, Cheryl McCollum,

director of the Cold Case Research Institute and forensic expert, how can two such wonderful, brilliant parents have a devil spawn like Heather Mack? How does that happen? This is a very unusual case. It's a very unusual situation. Normally you do not see this in a homicide case of this magnitude. So we know about the mom, we know about the dad. What about the area?

Where did this child who turns into a killer? Let me tell you. Matricide, killing your. mother is very, very rare. It's parentheside. Listen to this. The Mack home was well known by Oak Park Police. Between January 2004 and June 2013, officers responded to 86 calls on a variety of charges,

including domestic violence, theft, missing person, and 911 hang-ups. The relationship between mother and daughter was tenuous. Cook County Juvenile records show that Heather Mack was arrested in December. 2011 on domestic battery, aggravated battery, and battery charges involving violence against her mother. Many of the calls before this incident included alleged physical violence against Sheila von Weiss Mack, such as biting, punching, and hitting. Reports say one incident caused the mom to break her arm. A guilty verdict landed Heather Mack in mandatory counseling with a focus on anger management. Whoa. Why did they call? Why did they call?

it a tenuous relationship between mother and daughter. This girl was beaten the H-E-D-D-L out of her own mother. Did you hear that 86 calls to the home? And this is a very ritzy area. It's a mansion there. I said it. Beautiful area, no crime that we know of. 86 calls. And when you hear domestic battery, you usually think it's the husband or the male partner beating up the wife? Uh-uh. It's the daughter. Heather Mack beating on mom. Let me introduce to you our all-star panel.

Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of red flags on Amazon. You can find her at Wendy Patrick PhD.com or on today with Dr. Wendy, K.C.BQ in San Diego. Dr. Jory Crosin, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, research consultant, author of S-O-S-S-Stop Officer Suicide. Cheryl McCullough, founder, director, Cold Case Research Institute, Forensics Expert. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org.

Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But first, at Christy Missouri, Emmy Award-winning investigative reporter, joining us from CrimeOnline.com. Christy, Missouri, why? Wait, let me understand this.

So there have been 86 911 calls to this mansion where the victim, Sheila von Wies Mack, lives with the daughter. But the mom still wants to mend bridges with the devil daughter and take her on an all-expense-paid trip to Bali? What? Is it true, Christy, Missouri, that Sheila's friend said, don't take her on a vacation. Don't be alone with her. very concerned who created the dysfunctional codependent love-hate relationship. Really? Who had the broken arm? Right. She blamed her mom from cancer when she was about 10 years old.

Oh, because later on she claims her mother murdered her father. Correct. He died of cancer. Right. Take a listen to reporter Matt Doran and Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily. She was becoming, you know, very defiant and not why. wanting to listen to any rules. And Sheila and I had many, many talks. And, you know, I said, you know, there's a reason the term trouble teen is out there.

But did Heather's troubles go beyond that of a normal teen? She started skipping school, hanging out with a rougher crowd, and even began stealing large sums of money from her own mom. What did Sheila tell you about what was going on behind Clustores? Well, she told me that she was being abused by Heather. I mean, she was constantly being attacked physically and haven't had an explosive temper. Hey Ontario, come on down to BedMGM Casino

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531. 1,2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BEDMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So-called suitcase murderer Tommy Schaefer killed his American girlfriend, Heather Mack's mother with a fruit bowl and stuffed her inside.

A suitcase has walked free. I remember the facts like it happened yesterday. Heather Mack will absolutely right in hell, unless she begs forgiveness and changes her ways, which I see no indication that's going to happen. Unbeknownst to Sheila, her daughter, secretly invited her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer, using her mother's credit card,

to buy a $12,000 first-class flight for Schaefer. Instead of kicking her out, she decides to take her to mend bridges on an all-expense paid trip to Bali, Explain that to me, Dr. Jory. Mother for sure, and unfortunately is deadly. She's trying to do the best she can as far as, like you say, mending that relationship and thinking maybe if I can just get away with her

and relax and spend some time with her and maybe talk things out. Following up on what Dr. Jory Croson just said, Mom, Sheila, trying desperately to get her daughter to a different environment. more beautiful, some are calming, relaxing, joyful. What's more beautiful than Bali? I mean, I've never been there, but I've looked at pictures. And it just seems like heaven on earth. So she spends a ton of money to take her daughter away, just the two of them, mother, daughter.

It would be a great environment to start mending and starting the healing process in that relationship. exactly well she sure got a surprise when she got there take a listen to chris hanson at crime watch de lelling harmy shaffer heather's boyfriend suddenly arrived on a $12,000 flight from chicago she had no idea tommy was coming she had wanted heather to come on the trip to get her away from people she considered bad influences the last person in the world she wanted to see in Bali was him and so then the question is well how did you get there i mean it's $12,000 for an airplane type of it. In addition to the room he'd been staying in,

Tommy's entire trip was being financed by a credit card Heather had taken from her mom. By all accounts, Sheila was livid. Who is this guy? Christy, Missouri, at Jordanis from Crime Online.com. Who is this guy? He is the loan in jail.

Tommy Schaefer. I don't get that. What is that? Cheryl McCollum, you and I have seen that many times. Let me go to Wendy Patrick. California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, and host of today with Dr. Wendy. Wendy.

Wendy, I've seen that where teens, children are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, their parents bend over backwards to do everything they can for them, but they want to hang out with thugs and go get in trouble. That's more fun than going to a recital or a prayer meeting. No, they want to hang out with the bad guys. Yeah, bad boys and dark heroes and learning that bad company corrupts characters. we say. And, you know, my parents used to say, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. I think we should still see that today because this kind of dynamic is very common. And it's not

just common with young teens. You know, we wish that this would be something, you know, somebody would grow out of. But what cases like this illustrate is this permeates culture sometimes even when people are young adults and God forbid even when we become adults. You mean you gravitate toward that sphingali type person, the life of the party, the dangerous one? Is that something in human nature? You know, in human

nature, we tend to see that in some types of personalities. It is certainly not something universal that everybody needs to worry about. But when you see this kind of a pattern and when you see this kind of a pattern despite the upbringing that this young woman had, you have to wonder

how did this start? What role did, you know, the socialization process playing it? Or is this just somebody who preferred that kind of a dangerous living on the edge lifestyle? Whatever the explanation is, we certainly know how it turned out here. You know, Cheryl McCollum, you and I have been in court a lot of times together, and I have seen where children, teens, adults, with every advantage in the world, gravitate toward what is dark and evil. and end up getting dragged down with it. No question.

Sometimes that criminal element is just sexier. It's a more interesting story. It's kind of living on the edge and it's got this thrill to it. A lot of people get kind of sucked into that. But I think it's important to talk about the 86 times police were involved. This has nothing to do with the boyfriend. This is her. Nancy, if you were talking about 86 robberies or 86 DUI,

We would be losing our mind while this person was not in jail. Well, I'll tell you why she wasn't in jail. The mother would never wanted her prosecuted. She would beat the mother up this wealthy, cultured, educated mom. Her daughter would beat her to smithereens, but she didn't want her daughter to have a jail record. Finally, the police insisted, and she was found guilty of abusing her own mother. Oh, I'm not putting the onus on the boyfriend. She saw this out herself, and you're right.

She had horns sprouting from day one before she met the boyfriend, but it is quite the co-inkiede, right? That just 10 hours after the boyfriend's plane touches down, we got problems. Take a listen to Matt Duran and Chris Hansen, Crime Watch, daily. Ten hours after the wheels of Tommy's plane hit the ground in Bali, surveillance cameras capture him entering Sheila's hotel room with a handle of a metal fruit bowl stuffed under his shirt. About an hour after that, Heather and Tommy are seen heading to the lobby with a silver suitcase, which they place in the back of a taxi before running off. It's not until the driver takes the abandoned luggage to the police station that they find out what's inside. The bloodied half-naked body of Sheila Vanuese

smack. She had been bludged repeatedly before asphyxating on her own blood. So where were Tommy and Heather? For just less than a day, the media painted this pair as modern day Bonnie and Clyde. Young American fugitives wanted for a particularly brutal murder. But their time on the run would end here at this budget motel less than a mile from the crime scene. Staff alerting police after becoming suspicious that the lovers had checked in without any luggage. Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joe Scott, how did this loving mother who sacrificed so much? How does she actually die?

And then I want to talk to you about the phenomena that you and I have encountered many times of stuffing bodies in suitcases. Yeah. Let me paint a picture for you, Nancy. and in the report that was given forth by the forensic expert at the hospital. Keep in mind, this is not like being in America. They're in Bali, okay? But the report that came from there states that not only was she beaten about the head, Nancy, she's beaten about the face. And you want to know what that says to me.

She saw this coming. She was looking. She was looking for as long as she could. probably wound up being blinded either by her own blood or maybe maybe her optic nerves became dislodged but she had an awareness her facial bones were fractured her skull has been fractured and nancy i'll tell you how else i know that she uh had an awareness she had fractures on her arms and her hands multiple contusions otherwise known as bruising and her cause of death remember what the what was just said, she actually suffocated. Nancy, when she suffocated more than likely,

and this is just me opine in here, her facial bones were fractured. So she would have literally inhalated the bone and the blood that we can normally, you know, we can normally process something that it might be in our mouth, our airway. We can, but she was so debilitated, but still clinging to life. And so when they went to do the autopsy on her and they opened up her airway, Nancy, her lungs would not only have been filled with her own blood in the tiny little air sacs. You would have sent fragmented pieces of bone in there potentially as well. It would have been an excruciating way to die.

It is just beyond the pale. This gives an indication of the level of violence. and Nancy, I'm going to, I don't want to bury the lead here, but I got to tell you, I know where you're going with this. He came down there with specific intent. He flew down there. They had a plan. This was premeditated. He went down there as an assassin.

He assassinated this poor little woman. Yes, he did with her own daughter leading the attack. And then the horror of, you know what, I remember going to. to a circus with the twins, the big one, Barnum, Barnum and Bailey. And there was a contortionist. There were two of them, I think they were sisters. And they could wrap their bodies like they would fold them up. They'd fold up their body and go in a suitcase and close a suit.

It was a box, a suitcase. And we couldn't believe it because it's very small. and I remember thinking, how did she do that? And now I'm thinking about this mom, her body being crunched and folded over and crammed into a suitcase. How did that happen? Listen to Alex Perez, GMA. This morning, a gruesome discovery near the upscale St. Regis Resorts in Bali is setting shockwaves from there, all the way here to Chicago.

Authorities finding the body of vacationing American, Sheila Van Wies, Mack, stuffed inside this silver suitcase. The luggage left in the trunk of this cab. Retain for questioning. No cameras. Mack's own 19-year-old daughter, Heather and her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer. Heather Mack and Schaefer were arrested Wednesday at a hotel about six miles away from the resort, telling investigators they had escaped after being kidnapped by armed gang members

who murdered her mother. But investigators say surveillance video shows the mother and daughter arguing in the hours before the murderer. Later, police say the young couple called for a taxi, placing several suitcases inside before going back in the hotel to check out, they said. When they did it return, hotel security discovered the suitcase. So they put their mom's body, crunched up, folded up into a suitcase, stick it and leave it out front for a taxi to put into the taxi. And then they go into checkout and run. My understanding is, I guess, through the woods to get away out the back door, literally running out the back door to get away.

To you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, the way they treated her body, folding her up, literally folding her up and stuffing her in a suitcase. I wonder if Heather Mac sat on top of it while the boyfriend managed to close it. It is more grotesque than that. They used tape to wrap around her to hold her in place so that she would fit. So this took some time and it was bloody. It was a horrific scene. You can even see on the outside of the luggage when they take the garbage bag off,

it's just saturated with her blood. You know, we're so used to analyzing evidence, Wendy Patrick, that when you hear a comment like that, the suitcase was saturated with the mother's blood. A lot of times we just, you know, make a note of it because we're going to use that in a closing statement. Think about that for a moment, though, Wendy. The suitcase was saturated with her mother's blood. she bound her mother with a duct tape. Her body folded over and contorted to fit into a suitcase. Yeah, you know what that tells me and what, you know, even as a human being,

haven't been a prosecutor for so many years, is the amount of time that the mother suffered. I don't think anyone can think through what happened here, even if you were just to hear about the injuries and not feel how long that mother suffered. and at the hands of her own daughter, who she loved enough to forgive all of those years of abuse. But 86 calls to the house, you know, the mother's love, the family first mentality for this mother ended up being fatal. To you, Dr. Jory Crosan, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo, author, Dr. Jory, what does that tell you about how she considered her mother.

I mean, you can just about, there's been a lot of research to show the, you know, the more violence, the closer the relationship. I agree with Joe that, you know, this boyfriend showed up over there with a plan to kill her. And when they got together, Heather and the boyfriend, you know, there's energy, but there's also what's called synergy. I mean, it just synergizes this level of violence and it's, doctorate. documented in all the wounds to the body and how vicious the attack was. And I want to go to you, Joe Scott Morgan.

Patricide is very, very rare, actually, especially the murder of your own mother. Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's not something that you come across every day. I've worked cases in my career. And you know, Nancy, I've got to tell you, those cases that I have worked when you begin to rate them. And this is only my little slice of the world, my little slice of, but from what I have observed, those were traditionally some of the most violent cases that I ever encountered.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BEDMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sheila's actual death was asphyxiation from drowning in her own blood. After Tommy Schaefer hits her over the head with a fruit bowl, while her own daughter placed her hand

over her mother's mouth. They folded up the body. I don't know how else to put it and stuffed it in a suitcase, left it in the trunk of a taxi outside the St. Regis Resort oozing blood.

The police discovered the suitcase and traced it back to the hotel, of course, inside was Sheila's body. A nationwide search was launched and the two were soon located at another hotel the two idiots had booked it using Sheila's credit card. I mean, no shame.

Well, that's not all. Take a listen to Les Trent from Inside Edition. I don't regret killing my mother. And as evil as that may sound, that's my reality. A chilling confession from behind bars by the American heiress who murdered her wealthy mother on vacation in Bali. I made it up in my heart, my mind, my soul, my blood, oxygen running through my body, but I wanted to kill my mother. Now listen to why 21-year-old Heather Mack says she beat her mom to death and stuffed her body in a suitcase.

When I was 10, my mother killed my father in a hotel in Athens. Grace. Could Heather be making up the story? We spoke to family friend Elliot Jacobson, who says Heather's claims are nonsense. It's a kind of statement that doesn't even warrant a response. It's such an absurdity. He showed me this death certificate for Heather's father, James Mack. It gives the cause of death as pulmonary ambulism, a blood clot in the lungs. You were hearing not only our friend Lest Trent and Inside Edition, but you were hearing Heather Max saying she does not regret murdering her mother. She gives justification that her mother murdered her father when she was 10 in Athens, Greece. That could not be further from the truth.

You hear the family friend, Elliot Jacobson, saying that that was not his cause of death. The father's cause of death was a pulmonary embolism, a blood clot in the lungs, brought about through a battle with cancer. So even now, she's fabricating stories to justify murdering her mother. It shows me that there is no remorse, no acceptance of her crime. Okay, let's take a listen to more of what we've learned. Here's Matt Duran and Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily. Does the evidence support Heather's version of events?

It's one thing in the heat of the moment in a violent exchange to kill your own mother. but it's another thing entirely to map it out and for this to have been premeditated. So which was it? I think it was happening. In my head, I never thought what was going to actually happen. But police say there's a series of text messages, Heather, which go to that very motive, premeditation.

Yeah, the tense of us in here. I was such, I'll be... If you somebody hit me in the black, can I say you're in that? Sure. Yes, of course. course. You want to call me back? That call never came. We would lose contact with Heather after those final words. It shows premeditation, Cheryl McCollum, the text messages between her and her boyfriend. It's just like Dr. Jory said, he came there as an assassin. And now she's going to walk free. I only

worry about what's going to happen to the baby. Well, let's talk about that, Nancy, because I think that's a lot of her motivation. So she originally tried to ask her boyfriend, hey, do you know some that you kill my mother for $50,000. Then I think the two of them decided, hey, we can save 50 grand and do it ourselves and collect everything, all the inheritance. She right now, she wants that baby back with her. She's lying when she says she's worried

that the baby's going to find out why she's in prison. The baby visits both of her parents in separate prisons for murder. The baby's going to know why they were there. That's a given. And this is what I think. She wants that baby back in Chicago with her because her daughter inherited her mother's estate. Guys, take a listen to our friends at NBC5 Chicago.

St. Charles' based attorney Vanessa Fabia has represented Mac and Stella. She's definitely more mature now and being a mother has changed her drastically. So I think she's going to come back with a new lease on life and definitely a better person all around. Max uncle Bill Weiss tells NBC5 he has not had contact with Heather and does not want to. And he says he believes Heather's original tenure sentence was a travesty of justice. Still, he says the family's hearts continue to go out to Stella and they hope she can be raised in a safe and loving environment. Everyone she would know in America now was friends with her mother that she murdered. And as far to you, Joe Sky Morgan, I don't know how she sleeps at night.

thinking back on the way she murdered her mother, duct taped her body into a ball to stick her into a suitcase. I have no idea because, you know what, I see her cycling back into violence. This is not like something that just fell from lightning, like lightning from heaven. This is a premeditated event. This woman is evil, Nancy.

Well, there were the 86 phone calls to police. Those were just the calls to police. How many other times did she batter her mother? and as far as maturing behind bars, Dr. Jory Cross, and she says, I don't regret murdering my mother, then makes up a story that her mom is the killer, that it's her mother's fault. She's dead in a suitcase.

I am stunned and appalled that Tommy Schaefer is walking free. The good news is the U.S. is extraditing his sorry we were into the U.S., where he will face charges of conspiracy to kill a U.S. national while overseas and tampering with evidence. The gruesome thought there that evidence was Sheila's body. We wait as justice unfolds. And may it be swift.

Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.