Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Obsessed female staffer murders glamorous lady senator & orders hit on victim's hubby?

Episode Date: June 17, 2020

There's a twist in the murder of Arkansas state senator Linda Collins-Smith. The suspect is facing new charges as details are released of an attempt to hire a hitman to kill the senator's ex-husband.The body of Collins-Smith was found wrapped in a carpet at the end of her driveway. The remains so mangled that she could not be immediately identified. Who killed Linda Collins-Smith?Joining Nancy Grace today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author of "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant" Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Levi Page - Investigative Reporter CrimeOnline Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. How does a gorgeous young state senator end up dead wrapped in a carpet? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us here at fox nation and sirius xm 111 Take a listen to our friends at THV 11. Jordan Howington Randolph County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene at around 5 45 PM and immediately began securing the crime scene.

Deputies joined by Arkansas State Police's criminal investigation team. A sea of investigators spotted combing through the former state senators property. Neighbors living around the crime scene chose not to go on camera because they said they're scared to speak out, but they said this whole ordeal is like a mystery. Colin Smith's home located right off Highway 90 in the Edgewood neighborhood, one that people here told us off camera is typically quiet. You can see the vehicles behind the crime scene tape. Neighbors told us

the red truck belongs to the former senator. That's the vehicle she was spotted driving in about two weeks ago. And the others, we are told, belong to her father and son. As investigators arrived, neighbors said those vehicles were left on the property. The body found outside the home has since been taken to the state crime lab. The condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. Okay, that's not good. When they can't look at you and make an identification of your body. We are talking about a gorgeous young Arkansas senator found dead, wrapped in a carpet. With me, an all-star panel, judge and trial lawyer,

Court TV anchor Ashley Wilcott, renowned psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 of that in homicide, author of Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University,

and author of Blood Beneath My Feet, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, but to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I want to talk about the victim, Linda Collins Smith. Stunning, successful Arkansas senator. But let me ask you this. What was the state of her marriage? She had been divorced, Nancy. She was married to a judge and had been divorced. Uh-oh. You know what? To you, Ashley Wolcott, you're a judge and a trial lawyer, Court TV anchor. When you mix a judge with politics, I mean, what did they talk about at dinner?

Can you imagine? Yeah. Yeah. No, you can't because you're going to argue. I mean, that's what I think is going to end up an argument. Unless you say we're not going to discuss at the home, in which case you have nothing to say to each other. So, first of all, as you know, when a death occurs, when a murder occurs, this is such a murder, they can't even identify her body. You immediately look at the spouse, but let's talk about the fact they cannot

identify Linda Collins Smith's body. Talking about an Arkansas senator to Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and professor of forensics. What does that tell you right off the bat, Joe Scott? They can't even identify that it's her. Yes, it's near her home. Yes, she's wrapped in a carpet, I believe came out of her home, but they can't identify her. That's not good, Joe Scott. No, it's not, Nancy. And here's the problem. She's been down or deceased long enough where decomposition has advanced to the point where she's not recognizable. You can't look at her body and say, this is her. That means that they're going to have to go to greater scientific links in order to try to get her identified. And one troubling part to all of this is the fact, where's she been?

You've got her wrapped in a carpet and she's found on the property, but where has she been all of this period of time so that she could get to this point of advanced decomposition where they can't identify her? And as an investigator, that tells me a lot. That means that somebody had possession of her, that they had sequestered her or hidden her away at some point in time. And that, that's going to be where this is going to be. Hiding her dead body. See, when I hear that the body was in such a bad state, there could be no visual identification made. I just assume that somebody used a shotgun and blasted her face off.

But you're thinking it was because of decomposition. Yeah, that's the first thing that I'm thinking of, that she's been down that long and that they can't identify her. Now, if she was disfigured as a result of some type of trauma, that's only going to add another level to this as far as getting her identified. You know what, Joe Scott Morgan, it's always a treat to talk to you because now I get to think about who would hold her dead body and keep it. What? At the dinner table? What do you do with the dead body as it decomposes and you keep it for that long? Now, this is Joseph Scott Morgan's theory, but I mean, we definitely need a shrink to Dr. Bethany Marshall keeping a dead body as it decomposes. And that's a whole nother mindset

right there. You know, people who keep a dead body while it decomposes, I think fall into one of two categories. One category is that they're grossly mentally ill, schizophrenic, something like that. They have a paranoid delusion. They kill a family member. Then they're too low functioning to dispose of the body. But I don't suspect that was the case in this particular incident. The second category is somebody who kills the victim, in this case, the senator, but has not thought in advance to prepare a dump site for the body, has not thought about what they're going to do with the body. And as we've discussed repeatedly on this show, it takes an enormous amount of energy to get rid of a dead body. I mean, some people will, you know, cut the body into pieces, put it into a suitcase, drop it into the river. But whoever the perpetrator, the killer was in this particular

instance, did not think it through to the end. So those are the two choices you're giving me. Someone who's so low functioning, they can't figure out how to get rid of a dead body or two. What's the second one? Two, two. Well, the second one two two well the second one would be somebody who's angry and murderous enough to kill her but they have not planned i got another category for you let me just call it the ted bundy category where you kill the victim yes but then you keep the body for fun remember how he would then continue to molest the dead body? He would bathe the dead body. He would apply makeup and do the dead body's hair.

That is not somebody low-functioning. That is not somebody that hasn't planned. That is a freak. I don't know what you call him dr bethany i'm sure some really long word go ahead hit me with the long word well well this would be like the woman that the young woman that went missing from the uh the coffee kiosk in seattle and the killer who took her then um samantha koenig samantha koenig. Then her body was frozen. He moved it to another location. Killer Israel Keys. Israel Keys.

Sewed her eyes shut. Put her, didn't he get her? Sewed her eyes open. Sewed them open. And took pictures of her. Applied makeup. Braided her hair. Took pictures of her.

Yes, that's the third category. That is the third category. There's a lot of reasons, apparently. Yes. I mean, not to tell you your business, Beverly Hills psychoanalyst. I'm always impressed with that. But I guess you don't see a whole lot of bodies with their eyes sewn open out on Rodeo Drive. So that gives me a whole nother category of who would keep this body.

And again, this is Joe Scott Morgan's working theory that the body was kept. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the death, the murder of a gorgeous young. Arkansas state senator. Take a listen to our friends at KARK4. This is Tyler Thomason.

When the former senator was found outside her Pocahontas home, authorities say she was unrecognizable. Less than 24 hours later, a judge sealed all documents pertaining to the case and detectives remain tight-lipped about the ongoing

investigation. Crime scene tape covers every corner of Linda Collins Smith's home Wednesday, outlining the beginning stages of a murder investigation. Police say a woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday.

The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. Police say a woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was

found dead outside the home Tuesday. Police say a woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. Police say a woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's

Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday.

The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the woman was found dead outside the home Tuesday. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office said the THE VICTIM WAS FOUND DEAD OUTSIDE THE HOME ON TUESDAY. THE RANDOLPH COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE RESPONDED TO THE SCENE AT AROUND 5 45 PM. THE CONDITION OF THE BODY PREVENTED ANY IMMEDIATE POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION. AUTHORITIES HAVE STOPPED SHORT

OF CONFIRMING WHETHER THE VICTIM IS THE FORMER STATE SENATOR, BUT SOURCES SAY IT WAS HER, INDICATING SHE WAS FOUND SHOT TO DEATH. AS FAR AS WHAT HAPPENED, THE VICTIM WAS SENTENCED TO THE HOME ON TUESDAY. THE VICTIM WAS SENTENCED TO THE HOME ON TUESDAY. THE VICTIM WAS SENTENCED TO THE HOME ON TUESDAY. THE VICTIM WAS stopped short of confirming whether the victim is the former state senator, but sources say

it was her, indicating she was found shot to death. As far as what happened, investigators haven't said much else and don't plan to anytime soon. Third Judicial District Circuit Judge Harold Irwin has issued a sealed, an order sealing the documents and statements ordered or obtained by the police during this investigation. Okay, let me go to you, Cloe Steiker, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 of that homicide, and author of Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. Cloe, why would the judge seal the investigative files? Yeah, you know, that's a really unusual thing. Usually it's some high-profile case, which it obviously is, but there has to be something in there that the

prosecutor and the detectives do not want released right away that they think will hamper their investigation. That's the only reason that would ever happen. You know what else is interesting, Cloyd, is that under Joseph Scott Morgan's theory, the body was kept for a period of time until it went into advanced decomposition. But yet it's brought back to the home and wrapped in a rug when it's found. That's odd. What do you make of someone wrapping the body in a rug, Floyd Steiger? Well, wrapping a body in a rug is relatively common because the rug's on the floor, you just roll the person in it. But I'm not sure if the body was transported away and transported back, but that takes a lot of work.

It is very, very difficult to do. And again, why would you bring it back to the house? So, I mean, it's just, they're trying to conceal the body, obviously, and wrapping it in the carpet will actually, or wrapping it in anything, will accelerate the decomposition. And so she's probably a mess when they open her up. Yeah. And you know, another thing,

Cloyd Steiger with me, 36 years, Seattle PD, 22 without homicide. Another thing we cannot discount is when it's a random killing. Let's just say a burglar broke in to steal stuff. They see her, and they shoot her. They don't usually stick around to conceal the body. Yeah, they don't. Random killings.

Even just wrapping the body in a rug there'd be no reason you don't see that when it's random reason the other thing is first of all burglars when they get interrupted run they don't shoot people or kill people that you know a lot of people try to use that when they're staging a scene it must have been a burglary interrupted but that almost never happens the person runs unless the reason for the burglary in the first place was to kill or rape or something like that. You're absolutely right. Random burglars, random killers do not take the time. They may shoot and go, uh-uh, and leave.

They're gone. They want out of there. And they don't take time to stage the scene. To you, Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the death investigator. What does it tell you that she, Senator Linda Collins-Smith, was wrapped up in a carpet? Well, I think that as was pointed out earlier, if I recall, the carpet originated from within that very residence. And so that gives us some kind of connection between the perpetrator or whoever it was

that wrapped her up and deposited her there. That means that they were within the interior of that residence at some point in time and grabbed that carpet, wrapped her body up in it. Another big thing here is also, why would you go to the trouble of wrapping? Well, I think that you want to contain if she's been traumatized, which obviously she has, you want to contain the blood, but also does this go to an issue of maybe like face covering,

which is something that we see where people that are intimately involved with an individual will shoot an individual or kill an individual and then cover their face because literally, and this is more in Dr. Bethany's area, but literally they can't abide having that person's face in their field of view because they have an intimate relationship with them. And we'll see this acted out periodically in these cases of intimate violence where, you know, you don't want to see the person's face that you've just literally slaughtered. You know, I was thinking about a case where a young woman, 21-ish, accused of murdering her mother put a wicker trash basket over her mother's head. We see it all the time. I don't necessarily understand it, but I'm with Joe Scott Morgan on this. There's something about seeing your murder victim's face. You can't stand. What is that,

Dr. Bethany? He's right. This is your province. Well, it could either be that it's a final superficial act of kindness. You want to provide some covering, but I think most often... Wrapping you up in a carpet, putting a trash can over your head? I would think the trash can over the head is you don't want the victim looking at you. You don't want them to see what you've done, which I think is often why victims are shot in the back of the head. It's because the perpetrator wants not only an element of surprise, but they don't want that person to know what they're going to do. They don't want to be seen. Even in death, they don't want recognition on the other person's face. But, you know, in this case, Nancy, she was wrapped in a blanket under a tarp at the end of her driveway.

And I'm not a death investigator, but I know human behavior. whoever did this to the senator did at some point decide they were going to get rid of the body, but they only made it as far as the end of the driveway. So I also wonder, you know, who could have carried a body in a tarp, you know, wrapped in a rug to the end of a driveway? Why deposit it there? Most surely it's going to be found there. Was this person trying to make a hasty getaway and then just thought, oh, screw it. I'm just going to leave her there. And then they just drove off. Or did they stage the body at the end of the driveway because they wanted everyone to know that they had killed her? I mean, that to me is a very curious part of this crime scene. Nancy, I got to say one more thing and you know relative to

what Bethany was just commenting on and maybe this is really far afield but what else do we put at the end of our driveway those of us that live in neighborhoods and maybe yeah we put trash at the end of the driveway and so if you continue with that, did this individual that had taken this poor woman's life, did she view her as something that can just be tossed away? Just like a piece of debris. Or could it have been, to Chloe Steiger joining me, 36-year Seattle PD, just go with me for a moment. Because Joe Scott just gave me an idea. Could the killer have possibly thought that the body would be picked up by the trash and disposed of without realizing what it was, Cloyd? Maybe. You have much more likely success than that if you're in a garbage can or a machine picks it up.

But if some person has to pick that up, they're going to go, hey, what the heck's wrong with this? And it's going to be much more heavy than a rolled up piece of carpet should be. But Joe Scott and Bethany were both right. I've been to many scenes where the face was covered or turned on a murder victim, and it ended up being, it's either someone the person knows intimately or someone who kind of displaces a person they know intimately with that victim or that person represents. And so that's really, really common. Haven't thought of that symbolic transference of hatred and homicidal intent that you know the victim or the victim is replacing someone in your mind that you want to kill. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young Arkansas Senator Linda Collins Smith, dead, rolled up in a

carpet, blanket, tarp, and her body vastly decomposed, then left on the Senator's own property. Well, immediately the investigation starts. Take a listen to KARK4 Tyler Thomason. Court documents reveal the former senator was in the process of divorcing her husband, retired judge Philip Smith. A hearing in that case was scheduled later this month, and according to documented testimony, the couple were at odds over money after selling a local hotel for more than a million dollars. The ex-lawmaker's former spokesperson tells us the divorce, quote, was not pleasant. He also says Collins-Smith remained active on social media, but appeared to go silent more than a week ago.

An old campaign sign sits just beyond the police tape, marking a time when constituents looked to Linda for answers. Now they look elsewhere for answers in her death. The sheriff says state police are leading this homicide investigation. Okay, out to you, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page. Levi, you told me the divorce was over. I didn't know they were fighting over a million-dollar sale of a local hotel. You're correct, Nancy.

That was the business that she owned with her. Spanky, spanky. Yes, that was the business that she owned with her ex. He got married right after she passed away. The divorce was finalized after that. Whoa, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Stop. Right after his former wife, the senator, the one rolled up in the tarp, the blanket, the carpet at the end of the driveway with the traps, the Dixie dumpster? Yes. How soon after that did he remarry? Immediately. It sounded like he was with her while the divorce was ongoing. And then when she died, the divorce obviously is finalized. So he remarried very quickly. Well, I guess that's one way of finalizing a divorce is for your wife to end up in a tarp at

the end of the driveway. Money, money. You know, another thing, whenever I hear of a police officer or an investigator, we just covered a female cop, I believe in Long Island, planning to kill her husband and her boyfriend's daughter. I think, wait, how did they suddenly end up on the wrong side of the law? Chloe Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD. Do you think sometimes that cops, investigators, DAs are around criminals so much? I mean, can you walk through the mud, even if you're wearing hip boots, walk through the mud every day and not check some home to the living room carpet? I mean.

Well, yeah, that's part of it. You know, they see this stuff and some of them may think, I can get away with this. But also, police departments are made up of humans and have human emotions just like everybody else. And sometimes those emotions go haywire and and they do stupid stuff like this Nancy Nancy there's actually robust research that indicates that sociopaths and psychopaths gravitate towards positions of power so they want to become cops they want to become death investigators they want to carry a gun and hand have have handcuffs and all of that and that's why there's very specific a psych testing that police officers have to go through before they can get a job within a police department is to screen out these kinds of unsavory characters.

I have a colleague that does testing for police departments here in Los Angeles. And so she does fitness for duty reviews. And she says that there are a fair number of cadets who come into her office and will all of a sudden start talking about guns and how they love guns and they have a stash of guns and they've been fascinated with guns since they were little kids. And she will write a letter to the police department and say, denied, don't hire this person. Joe Scott, just so you know, you definitely heard her mention death investigators. Okay, so I think that's pretty much aimed right at you.

Picked up on that really quick. Have you ever noticed that? Because I remember in all the years that I prosecuted, I would come across a cop and I would visualize, I could actually see them committing a murder. There was just something snaps. And all the years they're devoted to crime fighting and doing the right thing, they've been around criminals. I saw it a lot with defense attorneys.

I'd be trying to reach a defense attorney about a trial on Monday. I'm like, where is he? Oh, he's down at Magic City, the strip club with some of his clients. I'm like, where is he? Oh, he's down at Magic City, the strip club with some of his clients. I'm like, okay. Not judging. But some of his cocaine clients at the strip club. So my point is, when you start hanging around with criminals, somehow at first you're shocked. Then somehow you become desensitized to it.

And then after a while, maybe to some people, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea, Ashley. Yeah, I was going to say, Nancy, I see it often, unfortunately, and they do become immune to it because they're absorbed into a world that at first is shocking and criminal. And then they're absorbed into a think of, well, this is the norm. This is what I know. A criminal defense attorney who only represents criminals does become a little bit immune to, and it's like, this is the world I live in. This is what it is. It's quote unquote normal. And I do think the same happens to officers, law enforcement. Now, it doesn't mean they become criminals, but it does mean that they live in an underbelly of a world that's very different than the rest of us live in,

and if they have any predisposition or if they have any not good morals, that's really good English I know I just used, but if their morals are not good, then they can cross that line and become the criminal themselves. And I've seen it in court with criminal defendants. And another issue to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page. I mean, the husband who rushed down the marriage aisle as soon as his ex is found dead, down with the trash dumpster at the end of the driveway, he's a judge or a former judge. And I assume that police handled him with kid gloves because of having been on the bench.

Yes, Nancy, he was questioned immediately after Linda Collins was found murdered, but he was not considered a suspect. You know, it's ironic as a senator, Colin Smith introduced multiple bills to expand the places where concealed weapons could be carried and then ends up dead by gunshot wound. You know, Joseph Scott Morgan. Nancy, can I correct something? Yeah, jump in. So earlier reports said that she was shot, but in affidavits that were released, it turned out that she was not actually shot. She was actually stabbed to death multiple times. You know, for some reason, for some reason, Dr. Bethany,

a stabbing seems so much more violent than a shooting. Why is that? I mean, both ways you end up dead. Well, a stabbing is so intimate. I mean, when you stab somebody, you don't just want them dead, say as a drive-by shooting where you want to see your victim drop to the ground, but there's nothing personal in it other than that. When you use a knife, it's extremely personal. And also, you've gotten close enough if you're in the victim's home to gain that person's trust. You have to be close. If there was no sign of a break-in or a home invasion, this person was in her home. This person knew her. This person used a knife.

And this person had intimate homicidal rage. I know the husband was ruled out as a suspect, but I think whoever did this did know her. And as you know, the preponderance of murders are committed by our intimates, not by strangers, because it's in the context of our most intimate relationships, as we often talk about, that humans experience envy, rage, jealousy, rejection. And if you look at her picture, Nancy, she's gorgeous. She's powerful. She's at the peak of society. She's passing legislation and bills. So there are a lot of people who could envy her, admire her, stalk her, want a piece of her, want to get close to her, want to be intimate with her. It seems like there's a pool, endless pool of people who either knew her because she was powerful in society or imagined they knew her and wanted to be up close and personal in some way. Nancy, relative to kind of dovetailing with what Bethany said

regarding the knife trauma and how this is almost a ripping to shreds of this individual, this gives us an indication as to what condition the body was in when a medical examiner does an initial assessment or the police, for instance, if that's who it was at the scene. When they cannot differentiate between a gunshot wound and a sharp force injury, that gives you an indication that they're looking at something that's be muddled by severe trauma or it can be muddled by decomposition, where you have to get the body into a position where you can examine it in very intense circumstances. They like back at the problem. Bottom line, the stabbing was so bad, at first they thought it was a gunshot wound. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want you to listen now. We're talking about the murder of a gorgeous young state senator. Take a listen to T.J. Holmes on GMA. A shocking mystery that turned heads.

News of Arkansas police investigating a cold-blooded killing of a former state senator, Linda Collins-Smith, who was found wrapped in a blanket outside her home on June 4th. Police remained tight-lipped for days, but later they say they found the suspect, friend and former colleague Becky Lynn O'Donnell, who is now facing charges of capital murder, abuse of Colin Smith's body, and tampering with physical evidence. She is sad that this is hurting her family, but she's angry and she's strong. Who's she mad at? Whoever arrested her and why. O'Donnell is spending a second week in jail and her fiance Tim Loggins claims police have made a huge and inexplicable error. She has been

arrested now for capital murder and you and Becky don't have any idea why? None whatsoever. Loggins says he was the one to break the news to O'Donnell. I just told her they found Linda dead and she collapsed. You are hearing our friends at GMA and speaking is the senator's aide, her right hand fiance. That's who you're hearing speaking, O'Donnell. Her right arm, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell, had been this close to her for so long. And now she's arrested for the senator's murder. Take a listen again to TJ Holmes. After O'Donnell's arrest, Colin Smith's family was stunned, releasing a

statement saying, we are sickened and upset that someone so close to Linda would be involved in such a terrible, heartless crime. Bud Loggins is asking for help to clear his fiance's name, saying he believes the real killer is still out there. Has it crossed your mind for a moment just in some late night alone where you question well maybe Becky is capable of this. Becky's not capable of this. You haven't had that moment at all? No. I mean either she is a best actress in the world and a sociopath and completely fooled me. Well, there's not a chance she did this. Straight out to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Levi, who is Becky O'Donnell? So Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell is Linda Collins' brand and business manager for her business and she was the last person to see Linda Collins alive. She dropped food lunch off at her home May 28th and security cameras set up in the home captured

her on the security camera and it also captured her taking down security cameras in the home as well. Wow. Okay. Floyd Steiger, 36 years, Seattle PD, 22 without a homicide. Why would you go into a home and take down the video recording cameras unless it was for a nefarious reason? Yeah, in my business, we call that a clue, right? I mean, obviously, she didn't want to be taped inside the house. And, you know, i would also look at um she was her business manager maybe she was in belt uh uh stealing from the business and got

caught and that's what started this whole thing i don't know but that's that's interesting i hadn't heard that she was a business manager and she was a friend and with her yeah me too dr bethany marsh, do you remember Selena? Yep, I was just looking her up. Beautiful, gorgeous Tejano singer who was murdered by her number one obsessive fan. Here, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell was all up in Linda Collins Smith's business. And now she's charged with murder. So I think what we saw with the head of the fan

club for Selena and what we might be seeing with Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell is Rebecca might have been one of these kinds of women who wanted to be the senator, admired the senator, wanted to gain proximity to Linda Collins Smith, put her on a pedestal, idealized her, but then envied her all at the same time. And in my field, we feel that envy is the belief that if you have something good, I have to destroy it because I don't believe that you can have something good and I can have something good and we can collaborate and create something good together. So people who are envious always want to destroy the object of their envy. And in this case, O'Donnell may have just taken it to a murderous pathological level. But Nancy, we don't think of females as being stalkers in this kind of way. But it could be that this so-called business manager was putting her

tentacles in everywhere, like Hoyt Steiger mentioned. Perhaps she was embezzling. Perhaps she was thinking, oh, you don't deserve this money after the sale of this motel. This should be my money. I'm the one who's done all this work for you. Why are you benefiting? You shouldn't be in Congress. You shouldn't be a senator. I should be there. I'm the more beautiful one. I'm the smarter one. So in a way, she has to blot the senator out because she can't stand the senator's success. No one in the inner circle seems to believe that Becky O'Donnell could murder state Senator Linda Collins-Smith. Take a listen to ABC News correspondent Marcy Gonzalez.

New insight into the connection between a former Arkansas state senator killed in her home and her former campaign staffer arrested in connection. It comes as a shock. Linda Collins-Smith was found shot to death on June 4th. Days later, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell updated her Facebook profile picture to this smiling image of them together. Then Friday, without explanation, police took O'Donnell into custody. The investigation is presently at a critical juncture and no further information will be released at this time. ABC News station KAIT reporting that O'Donnell recently appeared

as a corroborating witness in Colin Smith's divorce case. We're told the two were good friends. They were all fighters for the Second Amendment, and so they would, you know, you'd see them at events, travel together. This weekend, family, friends and colleagues gathered for Colin Smith's funeral, remembering her as a loving mother and tough legislator. She was courageous. She was undaunted. I mean, a lot of the behind-the-scenes things in politics that were so bad and, quite frankly, brutal, she would keep fighting. What I don't understand is motive. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what do we know about potential motive?

Well, Nancy, a lot of people think that money may be the motive here because Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell managed the business of that hotel where it was sold as part of the divorce. And also, Nancy, what we haven't mentioned is you played the audio of Rebecca O'Donnell's fiance, Tim Logan. He actually was the power of attorney for the murder victim, Linda Collins-Smith. Guys, when you don't know a horse, look at her track record. For those people still insisting that Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell, aka Becky O'Donnell, is innocent, well, it ain't over yet. Listen to this. I hope you're sitting down. Here's KLRT Fox 16 Mandy Noel. She's accused this morning of trying to set up a murder from behind bars. Rebecca O'Donnell is in jail now charged with murdering Linda Collins. On top of the capital murder charge, Rebecca O'Donnell is now

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DECLINING OF THE CRIMINAL DECLINING OF THE CRIMINAL DECLINING OF THE CRIMINAL DECLINING OF THE CRIMINAL too. Court documents claim she offered to pay the inmates in gold and silver. All this happening from inside the Jackson County Jail. Pay them in gold and silver? You know, I always watch those commercials on TV about getting gold instead of, you know, having a checking account. What are you going to bury it in the backyard? You're going to pay these people with gold and silver okay that's a whole nother can of worms but in a nut that was judas iscariot didn't judas yes levi page now she wants the ex-husband

and the and the wife did yes nancy so this started when she was behind bars and she was talking to fellow inmates and allegedly she was devising this plot to have Linda Collins ex-husband Phil Smith a former judge killed and she said I want him to be killed and I want you to leave a suicide note behind and I also want you to kill his current wife to make it look like a murder suicide and they she said in their, they have gold and silver worth about 30 grand. Take that. And that would be your reward. Well, you know what? I guess one dead body was not enough for her. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Signing off. Goodbye, friend.