Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - O.J. Simpson living the lux life in Vegas mansion, one year out of jail

Episode Date: October 11, 2018

O.J. Simpson has managed to stay out of trouble while on parole from prison for a year. Nancy Grace takes a look at the convicted robber and kidnapper's post-prison life in Las Vegas and shares thoughts on why he should not be free. Southern California prosecutor Wendy Patrick, Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall, Atlanta prosecutor Kenya Johnson, Atlanta criminal defense lawyer Eric Johnson, private investigator Vincent Hill, and syndicated radio host David Mack join the discussion. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Just when you think crime cannot, will not happen to you, it does in a flash and there are no second chances. I can't stop predators from coming into this world. I can't stop crime all alone, but I can sound the warning and I can pass on to you what I have learned about keeping you and your family safe. And that is why we are announcing a brand new online course, Justice Nation Crime Stops Here. This brand new five-episode video series allows you to go at your own pace as world-class experts in personal safety and child protection share life-saving tips and resources all for you.

Get action information that you can apply to your everyday life with a focus on preparation, not panic. Go to nancygrace.com now. Use promo code NANCY to get 15% off for your sake, for the sake of your children, your family, and the people you love. Know what to do, know when to do it, and how to do it. Class begins Tuesday, October 16. Go to nancygrace.com and register using promo code NANCY. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You get into a fight. Nicole comes out.

A verbal fight. Got a little loud, and by that time, Nicole had come out. And we started having words about, who is this guy? Why is he here? What's going on and she says this is my house get that the f out of here yes and uh which i didn't like because once again this is the same person and if you read the book you'll see some things that happened in the two weeks

leading up to this that were uh very very irritating you know. And I think Charlie had followed this guy in to make sure it was no problem, and he brought the knife. As things got heated, I just remember Nicole fell and hurt herself, and this guy kind of got into a karate thing, and I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? And I remember I grabbed the knife.

I do remember that portion, taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, after that, I don't remember. Except I'm standing there and there's all kind of stuff around and... What kind of stuff? Blood and stuff around. I hate to say this, but this is hard. I know we've got to back up again. That's okay. I want to back up. This is hard.

This is hard. I want to back up to... It's hard to try to make people think that I'm... I know. You wrote in the book, I had never seen so much blood in my life. Yes. Covered.

You're covered. The scene. Can you describe it? It's hard for me to describe it, I'm telling you. I don't think any two people could be murdered the way they were without everybody being covered in blood. And of course, I think we've all seen the grisly pictures after. So yeah, I think everything was covered, would have been covered in blood. If you don't't know that voice i don't know what cave you've been living in the last couple of years that's orenthal james simpson oj simpson speaking to fox tv's judith regan oj simpson quote the lost confession what a crock of lies

what well he didn't like that nicole brown had a friend over they were divorced he didn't like that Nicole Brown had a friend over. They were divorced. He didn't have a say in that. He found it irritating. Things got heated and Nicole fell. Right. In other words, he beat her again. There was a lot of stuff around, he says. What he's talking about are dead bodies and blood.

And right now, O.J. Simpson has escaped justice again. He's been out one year, and he is living the life. Let me tell you, every bar in town knows his favorite drink. I even know it, 2,000 miles away. It's a dry martini, three olives, extra cold. Can I tell you something else? He can afford a $20 drink. Oh, yes, he can.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. It never ends with O.J. Simpson. With me, all-star lineup, Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, veteran, and joining us from Simpson's former jurisdiction, Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst, and new guest joining us, criminal defense

attorney, Eric Johnson, right now to David Mack, syndicated talk show host. David Mack, a year out. You do know that one bar in Vegas has already kicked him out, right? He was so drunk and angry and belligerent. What happened then? I don't understand why he's not behind bars on a parole violation. What happened with that fiasco? You know, he got booted out like his first couple of days of freedom. You know, the guy, Nancy, I'm probably the only person on this panel that for a long time has gone back and forth on his guilt on those murders.

I'm not kidding. Yeah, you probably are. You may be one of the few people left in America. You didn't hear that, quote, lost confession he just gave Judith Regan? You didn't hear that? No, that's what gets me every time. See, I always thought that Jason was involved, his son Jason. And there's a whole history there.

Can I just ask you something, David Mack? Can I just ask you something? Yeah. Give me one shred of evidence that, Jason. And there's a whole history there, but whenever I hear it, Can I just ask you something, David, Matt, can I just ask you something? Yeah. Give me one shred of evidence that places Jason Simpson's son at the scene. One shred, please. Well, there's a problem with his alibi where he was supposedly at work. The police checked it out, but they didn't check out the fact that there was a problem with when he left the restaurant that night. He was a sous chef. He had his own bag of knives.

We all know OJ was frightened of blood and made him sick. And, again, every time I hear that confession, it just turns my stomach. Okay, other than he left early that night from his job, that's it? That's all you got for me? Because if that's all you've got, I don't want to hear that again. He was on probation for assaulting a previous girlfriend, where he held a knife to her neck and threatened her life and then cut all of her hair off. He was on probation for that. He actually was picked up

from his job that night at 9.35 with his girlfriend. They both have two different stories. He claimed they went back to her place and he didn't leave and they watched TV. She claimed that he left there at like 10.05 and came back around 11.30. So he was, according to the girlfriend that picked him up from work that night, by the way, he was supposed to be cooking for Nicole and that whole gathering. They weren't supposed to go to Meta Luna. They were supposed to go to the restaurant where Jason Simpson was the chef. He had told everybody they were coming. He had prepared the table.

He was preparing their food when they didn't show up, which is why he got off work early that night. So there's a gap in his alibi of an hour and 20 minutes, and it happened to be during the time when Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered. So let me understand. Let me understand. You think because he didn't cook dinner for them, he decided to commit double murder. Let me mull on that just one moment.

Okay, to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, Simpson has been out on another charge, an armed robbery charge that he was convicted on. After walking free on the double murders of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, he ends up with a guy that I put in jail for drug trafficking many, many years ago. He gets out, Ehrlich, and hooks up with Simpson in Vegas. So they decide to rob a memorabilia purveyor at gunpoint. He gets about nine years and they let him out. One year out of jail, he's living the life, Wendy. Did you ever believe this was going to happen? You know, unfortunately, we did believe that he would be released. However, what I don't believe is that he's already lasted a year out of custody without being remanded. He gets so close to the line, and you know, you've already talked about some of it, getting kicked out of a bar, drinking in public. Remember, he's supposed to be under a certain

blood alcohol level. But it's fun in the sun for O.J. right now in Las Vegas. He did not go to Florida. Remember, that was the original plans that were expressed at the parole hearing. But so close to the line, so many people watching him, so public, he's going to take it too far and he's going to end up back in custody. I don't think the question is if, but when and for what. So I know we're watching this and people are resentful that he seems to be living the life. But if history is our guide with his behavior, it's just a matter of time, Nancy. I mean, Eric Johnson, criminal defense attorney, no offense, Eric, but how do you do it? I mean, Simpson is living in a mansion with a heated pool and driving a Bentley around town.

He's making cash hand over fist by signing memorabilia and photos for cash because he doesn't want Fred Goldman to make a rightful claim on that money. He's rolling in dough, Eric Johnson. I mean, that is not justice. Well, the fact that he has money is attributable to his career earnings and what he did before that. The fact that he's able to support himself after he's paid a debt to society, serving his time in prison, the amount that he's able to make should not be something that everyone has a trouble with. I mean, he has a capacity to earn money more. He has a capacity to earn money more than the average person. Eric, Eric, hold on. Let me just bring you up to date. You know what? I think I'll let Kenya Johnson bring you up to date. Kenya, isn't it true? He had a $33.5 million civil verdict against him for the murders of Ron Goldman and Denise Brown.

And because he hasn't paid one red cent on it, it's blossomed. It's now $70 million he owes. Absolutely. I would say that he has not paid his debt to society, especially not to the father of Ron Goldman, to Nicole Brown. So they have to – he still has a lot of work to do. So he should not be living a lavish lifestyle. He should be reporting all of his earnings and continue. And once he has paid that judgment in full, then he can live the life that he feels that he's earned.

I must disagree with Eric that O.J. should not be having such a great time. Well, hold on. Hold on now. One thing you'd have to say now, that is a civil matter. He paid his criminal debt to society. And so, therefore, if he is legally able to make an income that is not going to be attributable to the settlement, then that is something that he can do. The laws are set up this way. He has attorneys to set up these things almost like the way rich individuals avoid taxes. So the bottom

line is he has to make a living for himself. He's out. He can't be a bum on the street because that would definitely violate his probation. And we don't want that. So he does have a right to make an income. And the fact that he's not paying the settlement right now, I mean, those are something that the lawyers will have to take up in a civil matter. Yeah, I don't even know what you just said, because his civil judgment, which is now $70 million decided by a jury, attaches to every penny he makes. So far, he has not paid anything. He has not willingly paid one cent. Well, that may be true. To Ron Goldman or Denise Brown's family. Well, then the Goldman family and the Brown family have legal measure to go to try to attach income. If he's

making these appearances, then they have the ability to do that. So it's not that they don't have any recourse. So the fact that he hasn't voluntarily paid this money, that is something that the legal counsel would have to take up. Let's take a listen to Simpson in his so-called last confession. What was the hardest thing for you at that time? That people, you write in the book that you couldn't believe that people thought you were a murderer. It was hard to believe that. It seemed so easy listening to TV that week that it was that easy for people to believe that I could, I could kill two people. I thought that my whole life meant something. I thought the type of guy that I had lived my life, being a pretty upstanding guy. I mean, like everybody, I had my faults.

Like most men in my position, sometimes temptations of the flesh is there. You get into a fight. Nicole comes out. Verbal. A verbal fight. Got a little loud. And by that time, Nicole had come out.

And we started having words about who is this guy why is he here what's going on and she says this is my house get that the f out of here yes and uh which i didn't like because once again this is the same person and if you read the book you'll see some things that happened in the two weeks leading up to this that were uh, very irritating, you know. And I think Charlie had followed this guy in, wanted to make sure it was no problem, and he brought the knife. As things got heated,

I just remember Nicole fell and hurt herself. And this guy kind of got into a karate thing, and I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? And I remember I grabbed a knife. I do remember that portion, taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, after that, I don't remember, except I'm standing there, and there's all kind of stuff around, and, um...

What kind of stuff? Butt and stuff around. You know, we... you know... I hate to say this, but this is not even that local. I'm sorry. I know we got to back up again. Right. That's okay. I want to back up. But this is hard. This is hard. I know.

I want to back up to... It's hard to try to make people think that I'm a... I know. I know. I know. You wrote in the book, I had never seen so much blood in my life. Mm. Yes. Covered. you're covered, the scene. Can you describe it? It's hard for me to describe it, I'm telling you. I don't think any two people could be murdered the way they were without everybody being covered in blood. And of course,

I think we've all seen the grisly pictures after. So yeah, I think everything was covered, would have been covered in blood. You're hearing Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson, in the, quote, lost confession as he's speaking to Judith Regan, formerly at Fox. This marks the first year of Simpson's freedom after a conviction for armed robbery in Vegas. He was Lovelock CI number 1027184. And now he's walking free, driving a Bentley, living in a mansion in a heated pool, ordering his favorite drink every night at various bars, dry martini, extra cold, three olives. Okay. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned LA psychoanalyst. I got to hear your take on what he just said. I love the way OJ minimizes the severity and the horrific nature of this attack.

First of all, he says, I got a little irritated rather than I had a rage attack and I slashed her throat almost to the vertebrae. I love the way he says, this guy got into a karate move rather than poor Ron Goldman was cowering in the corner trying to defend himself. I love the way he says, I didn't like this guy being in my house rather than I was stalking my wife

and making her feel that she couldn't even entertain people in the privacy of her own home. I love the way he says blood was everywhere as if it magically appeared without the fact that OJ slashed everybody. Nancy, I live six blocks from where this crime occurred. She lived three blocks below San Pazanivard, and I lived three blocks above it at the time of these crimes. And I went to Mezzaluna for dinner all the time. We had the same nail person. We went to the same spa in Brentwood. And the reason she hung out with Ron Goldman, who was a waiter at Mezzaluna, was because she was too terrified to leave the neighborhood.

She cherry picked her friends from that small community and she entertained in her home because she was afraid to go anywhere. And even in the privacy of her own home, she was attacked. And the one last thing about these comments and this so-called interview that OJ Simpson is making. He says people will see that in the two weeks leading up to this, as if everybody is so fascinated with the story. This is the sociopath's grandiosity, wanting everybody to peer into his life and judge the details and to feel sorry for him in some way. There's just sociopathy is just written all over the place in this. To Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, he's out on parole. What exactly are the terms of Simpson's parole? He has to, he's supposedly supposed to stay out of trouble, which you pointed out several times that he isn't doing. He's skating by on that. He's supposed to have

income coming in. He has to check in with this parole guy. That's pretty much it. I mean, he can travel anywhere he wants. That's the other part of this. I didn't even know that until I was looking at this for today. I didn't know that he was free to roam wherever he wants to go in the United States of America. He's free to go. He can do whatever he wants. He's as free as you or me. He is under an alcohol ban to the extent he's not supposed to exceed.08.

That's the legal limit. I mean, that's like everybody else. You're not supposed to drive at.08 or over. He can't use any drugs unless legally prescribed. He's not allowed to be around weapons. He is subject to random drug and alcohol screenings. He can travel, but he has to have the say-so, the okay, by his parole officer. They did not order him to get a job, which typically parolees are ordered to get a job.

But in my mind, to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, these conditions are very lax. He doesn't even have to hold down a job. Yeah, you know, that's right, Nancy. He is 71 years old, but in today's day and age, that is not old at all. Many would say that's the prime of life. And you see enough footage of him to know, even if we didn't have the description of his ideal day, which he apparently lives over and over again, he has the wherewithal, the physical ability and the mental ability to have a job. So then the question becomes, why would it have been so burdensome to order that? Particularly as we have been discussing as a group, he owes this massive

debt to the Goldman's. So taking these selfies, and by the way, you got to wonder where are these people posting the selfies they take with OJ Simpson? They would be crucified if they posted them on social media. But however he is making this cash-based income, to order him to get a legitimate job would at least have gone a long way, or at least a little bit of the way, in trying to pay back some of what he owes. I mean, that would at least help this public perception that he's living like a wealthy retiree. Which he is. I'm not living in a Vegas mansion with a heated pool, driving a Bentley, ordering $20 drinks all over town. No, uh-uh. I'm holding down multiple jobs and raising the twins.

This guy is living the life. And speaking of not paying what he into the hands of the goldmans. And you were heard on the tape making reference to them as the gold diggers. That was then. This is now. So you put your group together and you went to the palace station to get those items back. And what you didn't know, and also you, Mr. Stewart, didn't know, was the planning was taped. The event was taped. Phone calls were taped.

Conversations were taped. They had videotape of you going in. They had videotape of you going out. And the party afterwards were taped. Everything in this case was on tape. Just when you think crime cannot, will not happen to you, it does, in a flash. And there are no second chances. I can't stop predators from coming into this world.

I can't stop crime all alone. But I can sound the warning. And I can pass on to you what I have learned about keeping you and your family safe. And that is why we are announcing a brand new online course, Justice Nation Crime Stops Here. This brand new five episode video series allows you to go at your own pace as world-class experts in personal safety and child protection share life-saving tips and resources all for you. Get action information that you can apply to your everyday life with a focus on preparation, not panic. Go to nancygrace.com now. Use promo code NANCY to get 15% off for your sake, for the sake of your children, your family, and the people you love. Know what to do, know when to do it,

and how to do it. Class begins Tuesday, October 16. Go to nancygrace.com and register using promo code Nancy. The back gate, you go through the back gate? Yes. And it was open or broken or? I don't recall. Okay. I go to the front and I'm looking to see what's going on. And I can see that it appears, like Nicole had candles all the time. She really did to keep her overhead down, I think.

And music was on. And while I was there, a guy shows up. So Ron Goldman comes in the back gate. Yeah. A guy that I really didn't recognize. I may have seen him around, but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone. And in the mood I was in, I started having words with him. He says to you, I just came by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them at the restaurant. Yeah, words to that effect, yes. And he was...

I don't know if I believed it or didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because, you know, I was more concerned about everything that was going on, you know, and was fed up with it, I guess. You are hearing O.J. Simpson in, quote, the lost confession speaking to our friend Judith Regan, formerly at Fox. When you hear that, is there any doubt he committed double murder and never went to jail for it?

Simpson has been out of prison for one year after being convicted on another felony, this armed robbery. Take a listen to this. If you thought O.J. Simpson would be treated like a pariah, look at these images. It seems that everywhere he goes, strangers want to take selfies with him. Simpson, now 71, is living like a wealthy senior citizen in a gated community in Las Vegas. He's not hiding out. One of his regular activities is attending Golden Knights hockey games. He takes a shot, he scores! Simpsons attorney Malcolm Laverne.

He's a senior citizen. He's a 70-year-old man. So he intends to do exactly what we've always said he's going to do, which is to be a retiree, golf, spend time with his family and friends. Spend time with his family and friends. You're hearing our friend Jim Marais at Inside Edition talking about the life Simpson is leading to Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst, who wants a selfie with OJ Simpson. And Nancy, people are confused and they are so desperate for their 15 minutes of fame that they will even inject themselves into the notoriety of O.J. Simpson. But can I make a comment about something O.J. said? One of the primary features of

narcissism and sociopathy is self-aggrandizement and devaluation of others. He calls Ron Goldman that guy who's entering through the back gate. he says about Nicole, I think she was burning candles to save money as if Nicole was poor and broke and desperate on the edge. He can't even, the devaluation just leaks out in everything he says. She was a beautiful woman in the prime of her life. And have you ever seen Ron Goldman? So handsome at the beginning of his life, chopped down in his youth. And he describes them as if they were those bodies with that blood all over the house, as if they don't even matter, as if they're just pieces of garbage.

Simpson has been out of prison for one year and living a life of luxury in Vegas. The disgraced football star spends almost every day on the golf course. Four or five times a week at the very least at Arroyo Golf Club. If you thought he would be a social pariah, you're wrong. Now, I want you to take a listen to Simpson. This is actually taped at the time of the armed robbery when he storms into a Vegas hotel room and steals his stuff back at gunpoint. Listen. Don't let nobody out of here. You brother of a bitch. I'm going to kill you. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me.

You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me.

You know, as I'm hearing that tape of him cursing everybody out, saying, don't let him out, don't let him out, as his henchpeople are waving guns at their noses, you know, it just, all I can see in my mind, Kenya Johnson, is that big blow-up of Nicole Brown in life. After she called 911 one of the many times Simpson beat her to a pulp, her whole face just swollen up. I could hardly even recognize her. Black and blue and red with her lips all busted and her eye black. That's what I think of. And I think of Simpson towering over her, a football star, beating her and beating her and beating her. You know, Nancy, this was certainly a tragic offense.

However, this brought the nationwide spotlight on domestic violence. And since this OJ case, and as prosecutors cite the OJ case, for the shift in culture related to domestic violence. More laws have been enacted, more protections for the victims of violence, and more resources are available. And so that's one good thing that came from this horrendous murder in the face of how we're able to help victims of crime. So, Dr. Bethany Marshall, as you hear the tape that I just played, that was the actual crime scene when he burst into that Vegas hotel room, everybody waving guns, saying, don't let him out, don't let him out. Can you imagine Nicole Brown alone in her living room with this guy beating the crap out of her? Cowering, frightened, bloodied, bruised, with a perpetrator who's devaluing her for lighting candles to save money. You know,

Nancy, sociopaths are drama queens. At the end of the day, they love attention, which is what we can see right now. His whole life is organized around people taking selfies and bellying up to the bar and getting as much attention as possible. So not only is this a dramatic attempt to steal merchandise so that the Goldmans can't get any recuperation for their crimes, but he just loves the noise. He loves the attention. In any form he can take, he will get it. Take a listen to this.

I asked, I said to Mr. Simpson, I didn't know if he was arrogant or ignorant or both. And during the trial and through this proceeding, I got the answer. And it was both. At the time, not now after you've been locked up for 64 days. And at the time I saw you at the bail hearing. It was clear to the court that you believed you could do in Las Vegas what you couldn't do elsewhere. You could get your stuff back.

In the book, The Hypothetical, there's a... Charlie. Charlie. This guy Charlie shows up, the guy who I had recently become friends with, and I don't know why he had been buying Nicole's house, but it told me you wouldn't believe what's going on over there. And I remember thinking, well, whatever's going on over there has got to stop, right? So we kind of hooked up together, and, you know, I'm kind of broad-stroking this.

We go over, get into the Bronco and go over it. Let's just go back and do the details. Where did you park? I'm about to do the detail. You parked in the alley. In the alley. You parked in the hypothetical in the alley right you park in the alley and you put on a wool cap and gloves uh in the hypothetical i put on crap and gloves right and um you reached under the seat for um a knife i always kept a knife

a not car for the crazies and stuff because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember Charlie saying, you ain't bringing that. And I didn't, right? But I believe he took it. Charlie took the knife? Yeah. In the book. You are hearing If I Did It.

It's a confession by O.J. Simpson to Judith Regan at Fox. So, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you're the shrink. You're the high-profile the high profile LA psychoanalyst. Who is Charlie? And yes, I'm using air quotes. I think Charlie is his evil twin. He is the alter ego, the person that he displaces all responsibility into. What he really is, I wanted to kill her. But he knows that that would be a bridge too far, which is kind of surprising for a sociopath. So he actually displaces it into somebody else. You know, Nancy.

Hey, Dr. Bethany, it reminds me of little children. And when you catch them doing something wrong, they say, oh, Charlemagne did it. They make up somebody. So-and-so did it. And there is no so-and-so. I'm being joined right now by cop turned PI, Vincent Hill. It's the oldest game in the book.

In fact, I had a name for it. The SOD defense. Some other dude did it. That's right, Nancy. Yeah. I can't tell you how many times. They make up some. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some other dude did it. It was the other dude. These aren't even my pants. It's the other dude. Yeah, these aren't my pants. Like, I don't know. It was that guy. OJ says, I don't know why Charlie had been to the house.

Why? I know why. Because Charlie is OJ. He had been stalking her. I saw this guy. He shows up. I had seen him before around. I don't know who he was. The reason you saw him, Charlie, a.k.a. OJ, is because you had been stalking Nicole in the weeks and the months before you killed her. And that sadistic laugh when he starts talking about this blood, Nancy, if there's anybody left in this country besides David Mack who thinks OJ didn't do it, he did it. He is Charlie. he was there that night in 94 he was there that night in vegas that

was charlie that you heard on that surveillance tape you know what it's reminding me of dr bethany marshall do you remember when lindsey lohan one of the many times she was busted one of the times she had cocaine in her pants and she said that those aren't mine that's not mine it cocaine in her pants. And she said that those aren't mine. That that's not mine. It's in her pants. Her pants on her body. What the pants aren't yours or the Coke's not yours. It's just the same thing.

Some other dude did it. And you know, I think it's so childlike and so unbelievable that people fall for it because they don't want to think something so ridiculous can come out of another person's mouth. And I'll tell you what else is ridiculous. He said that he and Charlie didn't like what was going on over there, which to me really means that he was obsessed with Nicole. He was stalking her. He was preoccupied with her. He was simmering with rage. But oh no, he and Charlie were going to just

check out the scene and make sure nothing bad was happening over there. You know, interesting to Vincent Hill, cop turned PI, have you noticed that guys, well, criminals, well, all of us do the same things over and over and over. We repeat the cycle. I mean, when Simpson walked free from the double murders, I said, he's going to do something else. This is not over. He can't, he can't help himself. What is that impulse in a criminal? They don't get out of jail and go, hey, you know what? I'm going to get a job. I'm going to go the straight and narrow. I'm never going back to jail. Nuh-uh. No. They get right back with their old crew and start all over again. What is that, Vincent? Well, I think part of it, Nancy, is that I'm untouchable factor, right? Like, I beat this double murder. I can't be touched. I'm

going to go here. I'm O.J. Simpson. And you see that in a lot of criminals. Like, yeah, so what? I did a stint here in prison. So what? I'm still untouchable. OJ is a prime example of he believes he's so untouchable that he can do whatever he wants. What about it to Eric Johnson, a veteran Atlanta criminal defense attorney? Do you ever ask when your clients, why can't you just get a job like regular people? Well, I mean, that is definitely something you ask a lot of a lot of your clients to see to make sure that they want to get their life back on the straight and narrow. But I mean, I think it's kind of hard to over characterize the OJ situation. I mean, he was found not guilty of this particular crime. I mean, he did not have a history of criminal acts before that outside of the domestic violence. I'll give

you that the allegations of that. So to assume so to assume those were not allegations. Those weren't allegations. You didn't see that. Well, I did see the picture. However, when I say I'm speaking as a defense attorney, as far as charges being filed and things of that nature. But going forth, so there's nothing to say that he's going to get out and he's definitely going to beat another woman again. And as far as the Las Vegas situation, I mean, he felt that those were rightful his items. However, he went about it the wrong way.

So I think this characterization that O.J. is just this super criminal, just this big, big person who thinks that he can get away with anything. You have two separate incidents. And because of the severity of the incidents and the hypersensitization behind his celebrity, that's making it seem a lot worse than it is. Because if you take OJ out of it and made this just John Doe in a regular situation, it wouldn't be viewed the same way. Okay, let's just start with the actual facts. There were multiple domestic violence assaults on Nicole Brown by OJ Simpson, okay? Then there were the double murder, because you said he didn't have any other record, but you know, he did. Then there were the claims he was acquitted on the double murder. Now there's this, multiple victims of armed robbery.

So to say he doesn't have a record, that's just not true. Well, no, the statement is when people say that, oh, because OJ was acquitted, I knew that he was going to go out and do these things. You have a situation where he was trying to take back property that was his own, and he went about it the wrong way. That's not true. Why are you saying it was his property? That property belonged to the memorabilia seller. That was not O.J. Simpson's property.

There was a dispute about it because you heard the judge even refer to it as you believe that you were going to get your property. He may have been incorrect. He may have been incorrect on that and he served time for it. And what that means is it's not true. That means it's not true. And that's why he served time for it, Nancy. I'm just talking about the characterization that once he was found not guilty in 1995, that everybody's going to say, oh, I knew OJ was going to do something. I just knew he was this big, big bad person. There's no further allegations of domestic violence against him in that time. So that's the only thing.

Oh, really? Have you heard the name? Have you heard the name Christy Prody? Do you remember the girlfriend that he beat to a pulp? I remember. Is that name ringing a bell to you? I've heard. I've heard as far as once again, we have allegations. If Mr. Simpson, and once again, with the sensationalization behind his name,

we know as everyone on here said, he's skating on thin ice. So if he did these things, I'm very sure that prosecutors would have jumped on these matters to find him accountable for these matters and all of these things. Well, sadly, isn't it true, Dr. Bethany Marshall, that you typically have to have the victim go along with the prosecution? Absolutely. And the victim has to be willing to side with the prosecution. And in order to do that, they have to put aside all kinds of feelings, fear of retribution, fear of getting the perpetrator in trouble, fear that the perpetrator's family will be mad at them, fear that they'll be aggressed against again. You know, I disagree with your last guest. OJ's criminality is evident in every aspect of his life. Even right now, as you're saying, ordering the extra cold martini with three olives,

he carries a breathalyzer with him so that if he gets a drug or alcohol tested, he won't test positive. He goes up against the line, as Wendy said, in every area of his life. He just comes up to the line or when he can get away with it, he crosses the line. And that includes beating women. And these women are terrified of him. And now we know why. Look at what happened to Nicole. Well, what do you make of Simpson's girlfriend, Christy Prody, his ex-girlfriend, who says that he was obsessed with Nicole Brown, talked about her every day, and even made Christine dye her hair blonde

specifically so she would look like his dead ex-wife, Nicole Brown. To me, that's very clear. OJ ultimately triumphed over Nicole. He had the ultimate power over her. He put her six feet under. He didn't just beat her to a pulp. He slashed her throat. That's the ultimate glory for a sociopath. Those are the glory days. That's why he gives the interview. That's why he tries to recreate it. That's why he's obsessed with Ron Goldman, because it's not just trying to keep the money from the family. It's not just punishing the family for trying to seek justice. It's a part of the original obsession that led him to stalk Nicole. She's the object of his fantasy. She's the one he wants to triumph over.

She's the one that he feels got away, even though he killed her. So nothing's going to live up to that in his life. Those were the glory days, Nancy. He keeps going back to that. This marks the first year OJ Simpson is free, walking amongst us. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.