Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - OUTRAGE! Mandalay Bay owner sues VICTIMS of Vegas massacre

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

GM Resorts, owner of Mandalay Bay Casino in Las Vegas is filed a lawsuit against the hundreds of victims of the October attack across the street from the hotel in an apparent pre-emptive strike to avoid liability for Stephen Paddock’s gun massacre. Two survivors join Nancy Grace to discuss the lawsuit -- including Los Angeles lawyer Brian Claypool and Lisa Fine. Claypool and Fine co-founded the Route91Strong support group for the victims. Also on the panel are retired Las Vegas Police Lieutenant Randy Sutton, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Carole Lieberman — known as the Terrorist Therapist, and CrimeOnline.com reporter Ellen Killoran. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Subscribe today at P.I. Magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for your special discount at P.I. Magazine dot com. Subscribe today. Use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo code Nancy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. We refused to believe it was a shooting until it just kept going and going. And then Chase Haldane left the stage and then everybody started fleeing. And we started fleeing. We had had a hobby gate to get out sounded like just a firework something that you think normally happens in vegas and then it just started going through investigation in response we determined there was a shooter on the 32nd floor

of the mandalay bay i had no sense that we were in any danger at all. It felt so safe. No one will ever forget the shocking massacre at the Vegas Mandalay. Now, in another stunning development, Stunning development. Mandalay Bay hotel owner MGM is suing the victims of the Vegas massacre. Over 1,000 victims of the massacre at Mandalay Bay are being sued. I don't understand. The victims are being sued. Let me understand that. With me is Randy Sutton, retired Vegas police lieutenant, host offounder of Route 91 Strong, and representing Vegas

shooting victims, Lisa Fine, Vegas shooting victim and co-founder of Route 91 Strong, Dr. Carol Lieberman, author and therapist of Lions and Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My, and Ellen Killoran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Excuse me, Ellen. Do I have this sentence reversed? That the Mandalay owner is suing the victim? Shouldn't it be the victim's suing Mandalay? Have I missed something, Ellen? You're right. It's unbelievable.

It doesn't seem like it makes sense, but that's exactly what's happening. And what it seems to be is that MGM Resorts International is doing this as kind of a preemptive strike. They're not counter-suing. The thousands of victims that are affected by this lawsuit, most of them haven't even taken any legal action. So what MGM Resorts International is doing is sending a message that we're not going to cooperate with anything, any liabilities that you think that you have. Sending a message? They're sending me a message.

It'll be a cold day in H-E-double-L before I stay at the Mandalay. And I'm planning a trip to take John David and Lucy back out there to see who is it, Alan, who's the magician that does all the stunts. David Copperfield. Yes, yes, yes, him, him, him. You know, John David, the magic tricks go on and on. He attacks whoever comes to the house with magic tricks.

He loves David Copperfield. He saw David Copperfield. Blah, blah, blah. Well, I'm not staying at the MGM. I'm just putting it out there. Randy Sutton, Brian Claypool, Lisa Fine. Ladies first. Lisa Fine, Vegas shooting victim.

When did you find out the Mandalay, I guess, is suing you? Yeah, I found out a couple of days ago and I was completely disgusted. I started receiving a lot of messages, calls from our applicants for our funds. We offer financial assistance to gun violence survivors and they were just horrified. And it was like being re-victimized again. And I just, I take the calls a lot for the applicants that come in. And so, you know, I was in the kill zone along with Brian Claypool, my co-founder, and I know firsthand what it, what happened. And we, we are here for those gun violence survivors and they are just up in arms and they're refusing ever to participate in anything that MGM has anything to do with.

I can't believe it, Brian Claypool. You know, I'm a crime victim. And even to this day, the murder of my fiance so many years ago, it kind of runs my life in a way. It affects decisions I make regarding the children, my husband, everything I do, where I live, how I live, everything, because it could happen again.

That's the way I'm in bunker mentality all the time. You and Lisa were there, Brian. You've told me your story and how this has messed your head up so badly. How did you find out the Mandalay is suing you? You know, Nancy, that was very odd. I was actually conducting a press conference the other day for the family of a 10-year-old boy who was

murdered by his mom and a boyfriend because DCFS failed him. And right after the press conference, one of the local TV stations came up to me and said, hey, while you're here, can you comment on the Las Vegas lawsuit? And I was just in complete shock.

I was like, what are you talking about? And they're like, they're suing you and all the victims. And I just about passed out. And I was scrambling to try to figure out, A, why are they doing this? And B, what is the basis for it? I can't believe it. I've suffered through lawsuits before, and it's an agonizing ordeal, especially when you think that you have done nothing wrong at all,

much less, for instance, you and Lisa, living through a mass shooting, escaping with your lives, and now Mandalay Bay sues you. With me, Randy Sutton, retired Vegas police lieutenant, host of Blue Lives Radio, founder of the Wounded Blue. Randy, I'm stunned, Randy Sutton. Well, you're not the only one that's stunned. I can tell you that the entire Las Vegas community, when they read that headline, were just as stunned and just as disgusted. And I can tell you that the sentiment locally here is really anti-MGM. Now, keep in mind that the MGM is one of the largest casino property owners in the state. They wield an enormous amount of power. But what we're seeing here is the callousness of American business.

And this is unconscionable. Literally re-victimizing these people that live through living hell. It's horrendous. Nancy, this is Brian. I was just coming to you, Brian. Go ahead. They're suing dead people. Did you know that?

No. They have sued deceased. One of my, the mother, I represent a mother in Alaska, called me in tears. Her son's been sued. He's dead. They're also now going after attorney fees for the wife of one of the Las Vegas police officers who was murdered in the shooting. There's a hearing on August 15th. They're seeking $80,000 in attorney's fees now against the wife of the police officer who was killed in Las Vegas.

The lawyers for, yeah. So, I mean, this is just, this is, everybody said it. It's re-victimizing, it's re-traumatizing everybody. It's unnecessary. And one quick point I want to make on a legal issue is that I thought about this. Their argument about using this safety act is not going to win for one big reason. I finally figured this out in a preview on your show.

It's because the security that Mandalay Bay hired, or MGM hired, it was at the venue. They hired this company, CSC, at the venue. Well, the cause of the shooting had nothing to do with security at the venue. There wasn't a shooter that jumped over the fence and got into the venue. It has to do with internal security that's unrelated to an outside vendor at the Mandalay Bay. What failed is the internal security at Mandalay Bay. And they didn't hire CSC to do that. And internal security is not certified by Homeland Security at the Mandalay Bay. So they're going to get shot down. I'm just stunned. Dr. Carol Lieberman, forensic psychiatrist,

how does this compound the agony of these shooting victims? It is unconscionable. It not only triggers PTSD that they already had from being victims of the shooting, but anyone who is being sued has their own set of psychological stress just from the process of being sued. And so they're compounding it in lots of ways.

And also, this is a message that they're trying to send to any other victims out there who are thinking, who haven't gotten around to getting a lawyer yet, but who are thinking of suing them. You better not do it or you're going to be sued. It is despicable. who are thinking, who haven't gotten around to getting a lawyer yet, but who are thinking of suing them, you better not do it or you're going to be sued. It is despicable. You know, when you think Stephen Paddock was one twisted evil guy, but here it's hordes of lawyers and the upper brass of the hotel and MGM.

I mean, you know, in other words, it's not just one person running amok. It's people who have thought this out and who have gone through a detailed legal process and all that to hurt people, to hurt the victims. And I think that we should call for a boycott of not only Mandalay Bay, but of anything MGM. To Brian Claypool, our friend and colleague high profile la lawyer brian how has this lawsuit affected you after what you lived through at the shooting yeah nancy i've had to relive the entire shooting again um i was in therapy on Wednesday. I'm still in therapy once a week.

Carol's right. Look, up until getting this announcement the other day, and Lisa will echo this, I have still continued to struggle, trying to get through each day. Mundane tasks are hard for me, like getting a handle on my, like writing bills, for example, sometimes getting out of the house. My energy level is seared. And I still have the problem I was dealing with even before this announcement. I still have these catastrophic thoughts all the time. I feel like I'm living that movie, you know, that movie Final Destination. Every time I get a stomachache, I feel like I'm going to end up with cancer. I get a headache. I'm getting an MRI because I feel like I might have a brain tumor. So my life is already in chaos. I think I'm still destined to die sometime in the near future. And then I've got to get this

news that now, not only me, it's a double hit for me because I'm a victim dealing with a lawsuit. And then like Lisa said, I have countless clients, Nancy, calling me, emailing me from across the country, like Carol said, traumatized. They don't know what to do. They're being sued now. They have no clue what to do. What do I do next?

Am I going to go to jail? Am I going to pay money? It's just horrifying. It's a bullying tactic and intimidation that we didn't need. We didn't sign up for this. But Brian Claypool, you're the lawyer. How does this tactically help MGM? I mean, how does it stem future lawsuits? I don't get it because right now there are already over 2,500 lawsuits against the MGM. How does this help them? Well, what they're trying to do is it's a Hail Mary. They know that they're facing a potential mountain of liability. It could be a colossal, you know, financial hit for them. So what they do is they come out. It's kind of like a what's it called? Like when you get,

you know, blindsided in a fight, you get cold cocked from behind. So that's what they want to do. They want to try to take down the victims before the victims can take them down. And they're basing it on this nebulous law in 2002. They basically want to take the first punch. But what they've got now factors, what's the collateral damage that Randy's already talking about? It's going to be immense. And it's even going to be worse if they lose on this argument. They now have re-victimized everybody and they're going to lose. Well, yeah. MGM is citing a federal act, as Brian just pointing out from 2002, that says companies are protected from liability, you know, from fault,

if they use, quote, anti-terrorism services to help prevent and respond to mass violence. They also claim the security they hire, which was Contemporary Services Corp., was protected from liability and certified by Homeland Security to handle acts of mass injury and destruction. They say, MGM, that that should protect MGM from liability as well. Now, that act that Brian Claypool is talking about, it defines terrorism as an act that causes mass destruction, injury, or other loss. Huh. This shooting has not been ruled as a terror attack. And authorities are saying the shooter, Paddock, appeared to have no terrorist connections or political motive at all. He was just a freak.

The FBI and Vegas police have not determined his motive. They're still investigating. And that's why that's so important that we get his motive. Because if it's terrorist related, then this statute will kick in and relieve MGM of liability under that 2002 act. But let's talk in real terms. Lisa Fine, how has this MGM lawsuit affected you? You already lived through the potential loss of your life. Yeah.

Okay. It is. Now this. You know, witnessing a mass murder alters the chemistry of your brain. You don't sleep. You have nightmares. Anxiety times 100. And it's like we'll never be the same. The fact that they allowed a monster in the Mandalay Bay with 26

bags of weapons, then he shoots down monster from heck. He is, he is out of control. Then they sue the people that they, that they allowed this monster in to kill. It makes no sense. I'm disgusted and sick, and I don't even know how to process all this. We are completely devastated. I'm going to lose my head. They have a bad window. Uh-oh. That's a gunshot. That's a gunshot.

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nobody even knows which way to run. Thousands of bullets. Why doesn't anybody identify the source? Because it's high above where the shooter is perched in the Mandalay, picking off his victims below at the Aldine concert. With me, Lisa Fine, who survived the shooting. Brian Claypool, who survived the shooting. Together, founding Route 91 Strong. And Randy Sutton, retired Vegas police lieutenant, host of Blue Lives Radio, and the founder of the Wounded Blue Foundation. Lisa, you were describing how this lawsuit filed by MGM, as Mandalay Bay owners, against the victims has messed your life up all over again.

What do you recall of the night of the shooting, Lisa? The night of the shooting, before the shooting took place, it was the most incredible atmosphere. Energy was off the charts and people were beautiful. I've never felt more connected at a concert in my entire life. In one moment, I heard a pop, pop, pop. And in my head, I thought, that's a gunfire. And I begged my friends to get down, get down. And they kept saying to me, it's not real bullets. It's not real bullets because your brain doesn't want to believe that you're about to get killed. disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. Witnessing mass murder right before my eyes, listening, watching, and then later crawling through the blood of these beautiful people that I had just been celebrating life with is the most disgusting act of violence and evil that I've ever seen. And we had to do something. That's why Brian Claypool and I came together and founded Route 91 Strong, because to us, we will have to do

this the rest of our life, because we lived and they didn't. We have to live with that for the rest of our lives. Brian Claypool, I just can't imagine what everyone is going through. I mean, I had it bad enough with one murder to deal with, but being on the scene of a mass murder. Yeah, you can relate to this with what happened to you with your husband being on the scene of a mass murder yeah you can relate to this with your with what happened to you with your your husband and then another thing you can relate to is you have kids you know i have an 11 year old little girl right i'm a single parent and i love being a dad and i want to have another child right but imagine if you were at that concert right i was there my birthday was the following tuesday so i decided last minute to go out to Vegas I like country

country music and I was staying by the way on the 26th floor of the Mandalay Bay so when I eventually got back to my room I could look up and see paddocks blown out windows right above me that's how surreal it was but imagine this being a parent and then all you're going from relaxing to all of a sudden hearing sounds that you think initially are fireworks and then what I did is I started looking at Jason Aldean's face I was a little bit to the left of the stage and I was looking at his face because I was a little bit worried because I looked up in the sky and I didn't see any any residue from fireworks and he kind of stuttered when he was singing when that first – the first sounds popped. But then there was a second round of pops.

And when I saw him put his guitar underneath his – the cup of his shoulder and ran off the stage, man, I went – it was just complete panic. Because I knew at that time something horrible was going on. But I will tell you this. If I was, you know, in the first round of bullets, you know, I was trying to duck and trying to lay down, I fully expected to die. There's no question about it because of the pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. I mean, you just felt like the bullets were right on top of you. You could hear the bullets. You could hear them pinging.

I just expected to die now when there's a little gap in the shooting i went from i'm going to die to man i am really i've got to live to see my daughter but then i said if i live i am going okay wait a minute wait a minute you're just totally you're you're killing me right now because the thought of you brian i mean you and i go way back of you laying there on the ground with bullets ringing out and all you can think about is trying to get back to your daughter i mean yeah but nancy you know what that triggers it triggers post-shooting guilt in other words in other words because i had a talk with some people at the survivor meeting about this,

because there was a guy I met there who invited me, a guy named Taylor Winston. Taylor was a hero. If you look him up, he actually was a former Iraqi vet. He was at the shooting. He actually grabbed a truck that had keys in it and started transporting some bodies to the hospital. So when I hear his story, I then kind of spiral because I feel like I didn't do enough. But this gets to me having a daughter. In other words, I saw people down. Excuse me. I didn't feel like I did enough because I was trying to get back to my little girl,

whereas other people did more. So I'm dealing psychologically. I'm seeing a therapist. I'm trying to work on that aspect of it too. So that's the demons that I'm dealing with post-shooting. You've got to stop. You've got to. I'm so glad you're seeing somebody with survivor's guilt

because you were trying to protect the thing that means the most to you, your child. And I also don't like people attacking Aldine for leaving the stage because when you are confronted with death, you act instinctively. He wasn't standing there thinking, oh, what's going to look good with my PR aid? You know, that's not what it was about. It's about saving your life. So I really resent people attacking the survivors because something kicks in and I just am still imagining you on the ground with the bullets ringing out how did you get out of there and what what was it like what was going through your mind what was everybody else doing well I mean I mean it was like it was

pick your poison I mean death death was death was definitely at your doorstep. And what I remember is thinking, so when the first round of shots was going on, like I said, I thought I was going to die. Then I went from I'm going to die to there was a little break in the shooting. Then I'm like, oh, my gosh, I was feeling my body. And I'm like, and I was covering the side of my head while the shots were going on. And believe it or not, it was so surreal. I was pulling on people's pants. Like some people were still on. And believe it or not, it was so surreal. I was pulling on people's pants. Like some people were still standing.

I don't know if they were just in shock. I was trying to pull people to come down. And then I'm like, oh, my God, I'm still alive. And then I started running, and I saw people down. And then I was like running, actually, in an open area, which was not good. And then what happened is there was a really heroic young Hispanic man. And he said, get out. You're in the line of fire.

Get out. Come over here. And then there was this little area, like, under this little small bleacher to the left of the stage. And he goes, come in here. This is before the second round of shots, right? And I go in there, and I'll never forget seeing, like, five or six young ladies. They must have been probably between 19 and 22, and they were just on their knees crying hysterically, like, praying, like, all in a corner, like, in this little area.

So I tried to calm them down and said, you know, I said, it's going to be okay. Just relax. You know, I didn't say, just be calm. We I tried to calm them down and said, you know, it's going to be okay. Just relax. You know, I didn't say, just be calm. We're going to get through this. I said, but we've got to get out of here when this next shooting stops. Because then I started thinking about the Pulse nightclub shooting. You see what I mean? It was like, okay, I thought, okay, okay, wow, we're protected now.

But see, what people don't understand, Nancy, we didn't know where the shooting was coming from. So everybody, Monday morning quarterbacks, oh, we're protected now. But see, what people don't understand, Nancy, we didn't know where the shooting was coming from. So everybody, Monday morning quarterbacks, oh, we're just up in a hotel, what are you worried about? We were thinking it was people right across the fence. I was right next to the fence, contiguous with Las Vegas Boulevard. So while for a moment I thought we were safe inside that room,

I was starting to panic and I prayed. I was like, oh my God, if they shoot or comes in here, we're done, right? We're toast because we got nowhere to go. So then the next round of shootings going on, we're just, and I think you can relate to this being a mom. You know, I'm a middle-aged man. So I felt guilty that these young girls were going to die. So I instinctively stood in front of them. I'm really proud of this because I didn't feel like I did enough, but I felt like I was protecting them. I stood in front of them and didn't even get behind this barricade I had pulled in front of them. I stood in front of them because I was kind of feeling like, look, if this dude comes in here, then he can shoot me first because these girls are younger, right?

And they haven't lived enough of life. So I stood like right in front near the entrance of the door. And then there was another break in the shooting. And I'll never forget the most surreal moment. I peeked out the door and I literally am facing the Manilay Bay, looking right at the Manilay Bay. And then there was a really brave police officer across the fence who saw me, and he screams out. I'll never forget these words. Run north now. Run north now. North meaning go further away from the front of the venue.

And then, of course, I start, like, running north, and then I'm like, what about the girls? Right? So I did a quick 360 and ran back in the room, like, let's go. Come on. Let's go. We've got to get out of here. And then started going toward the back. But, Nancy, what people don't get is the entire time you're trying to exit,

you're waiting to get hit. In other words, then we're waiting to get hit from behind. Like we're waiting. Like we had to wait for people to try to get out. But the whole time you're expecting to get hit in the back because the shots are still going on. So, and then eventually kind of had to calm people down to get out of this one little small four-foot exit. And I just said to people, if you're going to fight, nobody's going to make it out of here alive. I tried to really just say we've got to all get in a single line and try to get our way through

and then, you know, praise God made it out. Dr. Carol Lieberman, when you're listening to Brian Claypool, it's just overwhelming, Dr. Carol. Yes, it really is. And Brian certainly brought it to life. I mean, you could still, I think we all got chills just hearing it. It was still so raw in his mind. Let me tell you the second thought I had after I survived through that first round of bullets. I said to myself, I am effing upset about this. And if I live, I'm going to get to the bottom of how this can happen and then do my part and kind of galvanize my godly purpose in the world. Why am I still here? I'm still here now because I'm representing a lot of victims in this case. We want to try to prevent

this from happening again. So I'm focusing more on what did the Mandalay Bay and MCM do wrong in terms of horrible training, having little or no security at all, allowing him to use the freight elevator, not having an alarm in the window when somebody's drilling holes in the window, not arming the security guards, things like that. The barricaded door, not doing anything about that. I'm focused – I'm galvanizing my focus on how could this happen in a civilized society with people that really care about safeguarding people. To me, the issue is about greed eclipses public safety. And I want to break up that culture of money, money, money at the expense of keeping people safe. So that's my focus.

I want to hear about when you finally, when you were running. You're crawling along Army Crawl. The shots are ringing out. You try to protect those two young girls. The guy says, run north now. You start running. Everybody's running. I can't even imagine what that was like, Brian.

Yeah, it's, what people, we talked about this at the Survivors Group, where a lot of the trauma that we're dealing with is what's called disassociation. I speak for me. I'm still dealing with this. Carol knows probably what I'm talking about. Disassociation, Nancyancy means that i'm more disconnected now from the average folk on the street because i don't feel like they can really relate to what i went through right for example like what we were talking about earlier which is

like i i feel comfortable talking to you you You have kids. You kind of get it. What people don't get, for example, is I don't know where the shooter – here's a good point. Shooters. I was just going to say shooters. I thought there were several shooters. We all thought – people I've talked to who were in there – this was a mass terror attack. We thought terrorists were taking over the city of Las Vegas. Okay, this upsets me.

It angers me because I'm so sick of people minimizing what I went through. Oh, you weren't standing over there where most of the people were killed. I'm not there. Yet a person was killed 30 feet in front of me. I saw it when I read through the investigative report. Oh, well, it was just a guy shooting up in the hotel. Are you freaking kidding me? I mean, thousands around. I mean, every move you made, you thought you were going to get hit.

But we thought people were coming over the fence. Imagine your caravan, Nancy, is magnified tenfold. You don't know where this is coming from. And every move you make, your body, to help you have a vivid understanding of what I went through, every move I made I thought could make the difference between life and death. And even when I got out of the venue, just to finish the story, I end up at the Tropicana, and I'm

standing there, and I'm breathing, and I'm like, oh my, I think I'm still alive, and then all of a sudden, there's an announcement, there's a scream, another shooter, and then we're told there's an active shooter shooting in the Tropicana, and then had to rush through the Tropicana and saw people's clothing, sweatshirts, shoes strewn everywhere throughout the casino. Okay, so this went on for hours and hours. To Randy Sutton, retired Vegas police lieutenant, host of Blue Lives Radio, founder of the Wounded Blue Foundation. Randy, here's your chance. What do you have to say to MGM in Mandalay Bay? Well, what I have to say you wouldn't want to put on the air, quite honestly, Nancy. Oh, I think I would.

That's where you got me wrong, Randy. Well, I, as a law enforcement professional, was very proud of the law enforcement and first responders. And they themselves are dealing with some incredible trauma as well. Post-traumatic stress is a true killer. And the fact that this mega corporation is so callous, cares so little about the people that were victimized here, is an indictment of the corporation, of the lack of humanity. And I quite honestly hope that the calls for boycotting MGM properties is heated. They have destroyed their, from their corporate greed, which is all, you know, this is all based on money. This is all based on money. This has nothing to do with the humanity of what took place. This is all based on cash. And that makes this even worse. And I personally and professionally feel that there

needs to be justice done here. And the only justice that they are concerned about is their pocketbook. Truer words were never spoken, Randy Sutton. Back to you, Brian Claypool. You survived. How has it affected your family? Yeah, so here's what I'm going through, Nancy. And I read a post the other day that really helped me deal with this trauma. The post on Facebook was, or it was in a survivor's group, it said, true courage is complete vulnerability. Think about that for a second. True courage is complete vulnerability. You've gone through this in your life with the tragedy you had, okay? That's how I've chosen to deal with this from the front. That's why I've spoken

a lot about not only the shooting, but I'm not afraid to say what I'm going through. Here's what I'm going through. I need to be vulnerable for me to get my courage back because I'm a little bit beaten down from this. Here's what I'm experiencing. Catastrophic thoughts. For example, and I know you're going to get sad hearing this, and I'm experiencing. Catastrophic thoughts. For example, and I know you're going to get sad hearing this, and I'm on the freeway, and I get this thought as I'm driving in the carpool lane, right? Carpool lane is close to the median, and then you have traffic coming on the other side of the freeway. So a week ago, I'm just driving with my daughter in the backseat,

and then a thought comes over me that a car is going to hit me from the side, fishtail me, and push my car into the other lane of traffic, and a truck is going to smash our car, and I'm going to watch my daughter die and need to kill. So things are happening in my world. I had a nightmare about an earthquake. An earthquake was happening, and my little girl and I are rushing to get out of the house as the ceiling is falling on us that's one thing that i'm going through catastrophic thoughts the other part of it is i'm very much more anti-social now um i don't really like being around people much i don't really trust people anymore i don't really feel safe anywhere I go. I kind of always constantly looking around my shoulders, wherever I'm at, I don't trust anybody. And, and then I

think the biggest, one of the biggest things for me is, is, is I feel like part of my soul was killed. I told people this, I might not have been physically hit by a bullet, but part of my soul died in that shooting. So I'm having struggles with the daily routines of life. In other words, you know me. I focus on my law firm. I take care of my daughter first. I keep my business going. brilliant everyday tasks of getting my bills paid, finally getting my car to the car wash the other day, having tons of stuff in my car that I hadn't taken out.

Little things in life that you think you knock out one, two, three, have become really, really big tasks for me because I just don't feel like I have the steam to do it. You know what's interesting, Brian, is that I don't know if this is good news or bad news. To this day, and Keith was murdered a long time ago, I, to this day, I joke about it a lot, and I joke about it with the other parents at school and the teachers and it's kind of a joke to them but I will go to the school at all times of the day and drive by and I make a joke I'll call my husband on the phone or I might have Alan on the phone and I'll go he'll go where are you I'm driving through the twin school I'm just making sure they're not in lockdown. You know that everything's okay. Ha ha ha.

I'm not kidding. And I still have the nightmares. I still. Everything. It affects you for the rest of your life. Now. I've gone on. I function.

I mean there have been periods of times that I really couldn't. And all I had was prosecuting or my job. But having your daughter, it's healing because you have to get normalized. You have to for her. You know, Brian? Yeah. Yeah, thank you for that guidance. I just wanted to say, Brian, you know that those are classic symptoms of PTSD, right?

Yeah. No, you're right, Carol. I'm treating with a therapist. I'm seeing her on a weekly basis. Yeah, that's what she's diagnosed. Here's another thing I learned, Brian. I learned that it affects your whole world. Like, you know, after Keith was murdered, I went on, I met David.

I couldn't let myself marry or be happy or, or love anybody. And that's why I was so crazy mean as a prosecutor all those years. I mean, I looked at everybody and they were like if I let this guy go on a theft he could get out and shoot somebody then it's on me oh hell no he's got to go to jail and everybody if they came to into my courtroom was just like woe is you because that's where I was coming from and I couldn't move forward and you know what and what it ended in is me and Lucy almost dying in childbirth because all those years I couldn't let go and be happy and have love I couldn't have love because it in my mind it was wrong what you know I still love Keith

and I couldn't let go and as a result you know because of my delay giving birth so late in life you know what Lucy almost died there so it affects every it seeps into every part of your thank you for sharing that by the way I really thank you for sharing that because you just validated something that I'm I I'm, I haven't really publicly mentioned this, but I'm going through something similar to what you're going through. Um, I, you know, I'm still single. I want to meet a woman and get married. I'd love to have another kid, even though it's later in life. But for me, I, I, even before the shooting, I had issues. My mom died when I was little, really, really little kid, breast cancer. My dad

was alcoholic, never around. I was basically orphaned as a kid and raising myself and my little sister. And so I've never had a feeling of trusting a family foundation. I've always, you know, I ruined my relationship with my daughter's mom. I should have gotten married. I couldn't trust. I already had trust issues with marriage, right? Trusting this could be a safe place for me. Then the shooting happened. Now it's like, I tried to go on a date. I was just so disconnected from the whole thing.

I'm like, now I'm feeling like, am I ever going to, maybe I will never have a family now because I just can't, I can't trust. That's what I thought. to? Maybe I will never have a family now because I just can't. I can't. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. But I'm begging you. I'm begging you. Don't do what I did.

That's my message to crime victims all the time. Don't stop your life like I did. Don't. That's if I had just been able to just move forward. I mean... Yeah, well, believe it or not, that part actually helps me. Being involved in this litigation and helping these victims, you know, I've got a woman who lost a loved one.

Her son was killed. She lives in Alaska. Excuse me. I've got about 15 people that have been physically injured. A woman who lost a loved one, her son was killed. She lives in Alaska. Excuse me. I've got about 15 people that have been physically injured in the shooting, and I've got about 20 people that are suffering from PTSD. And I have to tell you, Nancy, every single client that I represent in the Las Vegas shooting, it's an honor and a privilege to be representing them because I feel like I'm going to get answers through representing them in this case and being at the forefront of this case and then that is

going to be therapy for me to in other words carry out what my godly purpose is in surviving so that is actually fueling me. Lisa Fine, Vegas shooting victim. You already lived through the potential loss of your life. Okay? Now this. Our applicants that apply for our financial assistance through Route91Strong.org are in a dire place. They are at the rock bottom they've ever been after witnessing this mass murder. And we have applicants that have lost their jobs.

They're about to lose their homes. Some have lost their homes. They send us their eviction notices, and we give them immediate financial assistance to save them and their families from being on the streets. Lisa, wait a minute. You know, people may think, oh, they're malingering. That's not true. After my fiance was murdered murdered I couldn't think straight

at all I could not oh yeah and I dropped out of school I lost my job or quit my job I don't know I just didn't show up nothing formal happened where I was um I worked at the library at my university I just everything stopped stopped. Yeah. I mean, the last thing on my mind was trying to study or go work at the library. I couldn't even think, I couldn't even eat. Yeah. And so I feel your soul. I feel your soul. Oh, our applicants, they are at the rock bottom they've ever been after witnessing this mass murder. They're on suicide watch. And then this, if any of those applicants of ours die, you know, take their life because of this. Unbelievable.

Brian Claypool, I want to hear your message to other victims of the Vegas shooter that managed to survive. Yeah, thanks, Nancy. My message would be take the time to understand and crystallize why you survived. That's what's getting me through this. I've gone from why me, why am I alive, to what am I going to do for the rest of my life to make a difference. Now I'm on the impact part of my life. So I would encourage survivors, amid managing their trauma, like Carol said, the PTSD, try to figure out why it is you have these precious remaining years left on this planet and make a difference and impact people in this country in any way you can. That's my best message.

Randy Sutton, Brian Claypool, Lisa Fine, Dr. Carol Lieberman, and Ellen Kaloran. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the Internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket? Received a lien from the IRS?

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