Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - PARANORMAL SOLVES NURSE'S MURDER?

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

Whether you've lost a loved one to an illness, time or a crime, death affects us all.  How we deal with death is extremely personal.  Paranormal investigator and host of Kindred Spirits Adam Berry 's new book "Goodbye Hello," looks at how supernatural and psychological research can help us understand what happens after death. Is there an afterlife? Why do spirits remain on earth, and what can they teach us about ourselves? Can paranormal activity help solve crimes? Police looking into the murder of a nurse in California do not think so, but one woman's visions lead to a body.  Join Nancy Grace and her panel as they discuss the nature of death with Paranormal investigator and host of Kindred Spirits Adam Berry.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Darryl Cohen  Former Assistant District Attorney -  Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, CCEAlaw.com, Facebook: "Darryl B Cohen", Twitter: @DarrylBCohen Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist,AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2023  Adam Berry - Paranormal researcher, executive producer and star of Kindred Spirits on the Travel Channel and Discovery+, Author: “Goodbye, Hello Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through the Paranormal” just released, www.AdamBerryBooks.com, Instagram @adamberry, Twitter @AdamJberry, TikTok @TheAdamBerry  Nicole Partin – CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Twitter: @nicolepartin  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In all my years of prosecuting, yes, I was approached by psychics that told me they could help with the case. But all I could think about was how can I bring this in as evidence? It's just that black and white, actually. If I bring in this evidence, will it harm my case? I want to talk to you about a brand new book called Goodbye, Hello. Processing grief and understanding death through the paranormal.

Now, how does that relate to crime stories and criminal investigations? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, I want you to take a listen to Adam Barry at the Waverly Hills Sanatorium on Kindred Spirits. We're trying to lure John out of hiding. If we succeed, we'll capture an image of him on this SLS camera. Do you have a name? How old are you? He's eating them.

Our reason for being here is to help Tina. What about it, manic? We've been nothing but nice and courteous to you this whole time. Right? Thank you. You're welcome. Do you need help? This is Amy. There's a lot of voices I'm having trouble keeping up.

And more. I found a story in a local paper about a man named John, and it was about how his wife was murdered. She was murdered while John was here as a patient. And because his seven children did not have someone to look after them, they were given to the state.

And that's a terrible story. He turned off my equipment again, so I'm not gonna use it. Just not gonna use it. Okay. Okay. He wants off my equipment again, so I'm not gonna use it. Just not gonna use it. Okay, okay. He wants me to use it, so I'm not gonna use it. Okay. So my question to you is,

are you or do you know who John Mitchell is? Okay, you are hearing Adam Barry and others at a sanatorium called the Waverly House. I just want you to hear one more tiny bit of it. Listen. Do you feel like your life was taken from you? Why did it all of a sudden? This breeze all of a sudden.

Like out of nowhere. Yeah, like only in those hallways. Like it's moving back there. I don't know. It sounds like footsteps. Yeah. John, if that's you, we want nothing but the best for you. We don't want you to be here.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Where did you see him? I saw somebody standing in the hallway. It was literally a person. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we are hearing with me is Adam Barry, paranormal researcher, EP and star of Kindred Spirits on the Travel Channel and Discovery and author of Goodbye, Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through the Paranormal. You can find him at adambarrybooks.com. His new book just released. Adam Berry, warning. You've got a lot of skeptics on the panel today, right?

You understand that? Yeah. Okay. However, if it's real, then some people could be persuaded to bring it in front of a jury. Also with me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlantic jurisdiction, Dr. Angela Arnold, and you can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com, and high-profile lawyer, former prosecutor who deals with the black and white of the evidentiary code. Now, defense attorney, Daryl Cohen. Daryl, thank you for being with us. You can find him at Daryl B. Cohen, C-O-H-E-N. Daryl Cohen, first to you,

would you ever dream of introducing this type of evidence in court? Nancy, I guess the word never is very, very important here. The answer is never. Having said that, if I have nothing else and I have to try this person, I reach for the stars and maybe it's in the stars because that's where it's coming from. Okay. Dr. Angie Arnold, weigh in. Do you, you've dealt with thousands of patients in your psychiatric practice. Do any of them really believe in ghosts? That's really a tough one, Nancy. I've got to tell you. It's a yes, no. Okay. Lightning round. Do any of your patients believe in ghosts? No. You've never had a patient believe in ghosts? No. I find that really hard to believe. But okay. Adam Berry with us who has just written this book and Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I haven't gone to you guys yet, but I wanted to prepare you, Adam Berry, for what you're wading into. And I'm almost through with your book. I can't wait to get to the end of it.

A lot takes place regarding Waverly House. What is Waverly House? Waverly Hills is a sanatorium hospital, tuberculosis hospital that was open for a long time outside of Louisville, Kentucky. And it was a place where a lot of people died because the procedures that they were doing were very new. They were experimenting a lot.

And it's said to be one of the most haunted places in America. Do you agree? Oh, 100%. Yeah. It was one of the first places I ever investigated. I've investigated there four other times. And I have had experiences. I mean, in that clip that you heard, we literally saw someone standing in front of us, you know,

appearing out of nowhere and disappearing. I've seen, you know, things crawl across the wall. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Adam? Yes. Yeah. Are you sitting down down I'm definitely sitting down Adam you want us to believe that you have seen a ghost you know here's the thing I'm not in the business of making people believe in ghosts or not I'm in the business of telling you what I know and what I think I don't believe in ghosts why would I buy your book if you can't convince me and tell me, I mean, okay, let's start over. What is your background? Because you sound perfectly rational. I'm not saying I do or don't believe. I'm a fact finder. Tell me your background. So I grew up in muscle shoals alabama i born and

raised in the south really yeah now where exactly is muscle shoals muscle shoals is in that corner between tennessee and mississippi it was the recording capital of the south and uh i was you know grew up surrounded by church family and good food you know what i'm saying yeah i do as a matter of fact, where is that as it relates to Mobile? Directly north, like top of the state in the corner, directly opposite. Got you. Got you. Okay. You grew up in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. When do you believe you saw your first ghost? When I was a kid, and that's the funny part. So I've always been sort of a skeptic first, always, because my whole rationale is, let me try to explain how this can naturally occur, because nobody wants a ghost in their house, point blank. So if I can explain

how it can occur naturally with natural things that are explainable, then that's better. And so when I was a kid and I had my first experience, it was literally a ghost. I heard a dog in my room and we didn't have a dog and I didn't see a dog and it was playing in my bedroom. But thinking about that as an adult. Okay, stop right there. Stop right there. Right there. Daryl Cohen is joining me. Daryl was an incredible prosecutor with an incredible win record, has gone on to a civil practice and a criminal defense practice. And to do this, usually trial lawyers, not always, but usually are very cut and dried. We know what can come into evidence. We know what we can try to get into evidence.

When you speak to witnesses, Daryl Cohen, and you are judging them, you're judging their veracity, their truthfulness, how they'll do on the stand. Can I put this person on the stand? Will they fold on the stand? Will they lie on the stand? Will they get nervous and vomit on the stand? When I'm looking for veracity, I look for a story rich in detail. Now, when he said, I saw my first ghost when I was a little boy, I did not expect him to say it was dog and it was barking in my room. To me, that is a sort of a detail that is a rich detail that tends to indicate, not necessarily, truthfulness. Nancy, I completely agree with you. When I have a witness, whether I was a prosecutor or now a defense lawyer, I first want to hear their story.

I watch their face. I look at their facial expressions. I look at their body language. And when I hear something such as he just mentioned, oh, my gosh, absolutely. That is a detail that juries like to hear, and it's an unusual detail. It's something that will resonate that a potential juror or jury will listen to and pay attention to rather than what I call a PFA pick from air. This is something, oh my gosh, what did he testify to again? I need to hear that. And that's extremely important. I love it when a juror resonates with what a witness is saying from the stand, testifying to under oath, saying, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. crime stories with nancy grace at a very question you said you heard a dog was the dog barking uh the dog was scratching on the bathroom door and then it would walk into my room. I could hear the dog tags.

I could hear the nails on the floor. And then when it got to the foot of my bed, we had one of those knob and tube TVs that when you push the button in, it would glow a little bit after it turned off. And every time it reached the TV, the TV would glow. And then it would repeat. And it did this for at least five minutes. And I, you know, sat there watching it. I'm just trying to take in everything that you're saying. Okay, guys, you heard Adam Barry, author of a new book called Goodbye, Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through the Paranormal.

Adam Barry, according to you, are you able to see or hear or feel the ghost? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Way to put it when other people with you cannot. No, that isn't. I am not a psychic. So I don't believe. I mean, I believe in psychics and some psychics, but I am not psychic. And so all of my experience are coming from things that I can rationally experience with other people in the space. And it's actually better when it's verified by somebody else, because it's more likely you're not imagining it or making it up. Take a listen to Adam Barry and Amy Brunei in Haunted Farmhouse, Kindred Spirits. Listen. Wait a a minute something weird and black just went across the floor on this camera what yeah i've honestly never seen anything like it so this is upstairs

in the master bedroom right right in front like it's crawling toward the fireplace that's weird it's so strange so in that sound at a berry were you still at Waverly? No. So that is the Harrisville Farmhouse, known mostly as the Conjuring House from the Conjuring movies. And when people say, oh, you've been to the Conjuring House, it was terrifying, wasn't it? And the answer is yes, slightly, because I was afraid of what could happen based on what Hollywood has told me that can happen. However, it wasn't like that at all. We did have activity. It was intense at times, but nobody got flown, like thrown against the wall. What do you mean activity? I mean, anything that you cannot explain, supernatural or paranormal, something that is not natural or

something that is above the normal. Such as what? Phantom knocks, footsteps happening in front of you, voice, disembodied voices, like a voice where a mouth should be, but nobody's standing there. Things moving on their own objects, catching images on your camera when nobody's in the space, being touched, being scratched, being pushed, those kind of things. So do you believe, Adam Berry, that the supernatural can actually have physical contact with a person you said pushed? Yeah, I believe it can. And it's happened a number of times for sure. I want to circle back. So when you're a little boy, how old were you when you felt you perceived a dog in your room? I was in

fourth grade. And the thing about that experience, when I look back on it as an adult, you know, things come to mind. Well, it was at night. Was I sleeping? Was I sleepwalking? I tried to rationalize why this thing was happening. But even in the fourth grade, I did the same thing. I remember pinching my cheek, hitting my face to make sure that I was awake, looking to see if my brother, who we shared a room, was awake and he wasn't. Wanting to run to my parents, but I couldn't because the sound was coming through the doorway. And then at one point, I hadn't had enough, and I grabbed the sheets and I yelled, stop. And the sound completely quit. It just instantly stopped.

And it's stuck with me ever since. I believe it. Question, Adam, when was your next supernatural experience? That's fourth grade. So the next time I had a life-changing experience was when I was old enough to know better. I was about 23 years old. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, right there. Yeah.

Daryl Cohen and Dr. Angela Arnold and Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com. And everyone jump in with questions while I've got Adam Barry, author of a brand new book, Goodbye. Hello. Processing grief and understanding death through the paranormal. I'm guessing I'll let you explain this later that you're you're the gist of the book is I can confirm there is a supernatural out there, which means there is life beyond death. That's what I'm my take on your title is. But Daryl Cohen, my question to you is he has one episode in the fourth grade and the next one is not until his 20s. Again, if a witness told me that if someone was lying, I would expect them to go, okay, then the next year this happened, and then three months later this happened. I would expect a much more embellished story.

Well, Nancy, it seems real. Now, I am a skeptic. I'm the first to tell you that. Because if no one else saw it, did it really happen? Is it in his mind? Is it something that he is PFA picking from air? But the fact that it happened. Or wants to believe. Or wants to believe.

Or wants to believe. Bottom line, if you don't have a witness to it, it didn't happen. If you don't have scientific proof in my world, it's not real. Not unless there's something else to go with it. Not unless there's something tangible that can be seen, felt, or touched by someone else. Let me correct my statement. If there's not a witness and it cannot be supported by scientific evidence as we know

it, I can't get it into court. I'm not saying it's real or not real. I can't get it into court. And if I do manage somehow to get it in, I will be discredited in front of a jury. So that would be my thinking. I do laugh that. What? You laugh that. I just discredited, but humbled, embarrassed. Now, according to what I know, Adam Barry, your family has observed supernatural activity as well. Is that correct? When I was growing up, my parents didn't really pay attention to it that much. My father was, you know, in his early 30s, working a full-time job, didn't have time for ghosts,

and never really noticed anything peculiar except that the person that they rented the house from told them that it was haunted and gave them a few stories. My mother, on the other hand, had small experiences but again brushed it off uh until i started saying something about it until i came to them describing things that you know a kid about the dog specifically uh and then that's when she takes what about your mom and the keys uh so uh that not not my mom there was a there was a my mother's uh makeup would go missing uh in the house and then it would show up in places that she had not placed it and uh they blamed uh the gertrude is who the previous owners called the ghost right uh things go missing sometimes

uh in haunted houses and people don't know for, we were on a case where this lady said she couldn't find her keys and it kept missing, kept missing. And she said, can I just need my keys? I have to go to work. And they fell through the ceiling fan that was on high onto the floor out of nowhere. And she picked them up and went to work. And it was one of the cases that we had to work on. You said your next event, your supernatural event, according to you, was in your 20s. What happened? I was in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and I took a ghost tour.

I was completely sober at this point, meaning that I didn't drink before the ghost tour. And it was at 1230, and the gentleman was describing the Battle of Gettysburg, which is something that we all should remember. And he said, down in the field is the most haunted place in Gettysburg. And I said, can I go down there? And he said, I would not go on my own.

And I was not him, so I went because I wanted to see something. It was this moment for me where make or break. If something's going to show it to me, it's going to happen. And so I went down by myself and I know what you're already thinking, nobody else is with you. So how can you prove it? I went down, I saw what looked like large, misty anomalies, like walking in the trees that I could not explain. I heard gunfire. And in the middle of all of that, I went back and got someone else so that they could see it so that I could know that I wasn't, you know, imagining it. And, you know, we both had experiences and it was as if a battle was being replayed in front of me. You couldn't see anything, but you could hear it. And it was wild. And it really pushed me over the edge.

Now, this was before I would try to debunk it, right? Like I didn't, wasn't thinking about this at the time, but like if I, if it happened now, I would go in and look for speakers. I would go in to look for something that somebody's trying to do to trick me to see if it is actually real or not. It was that real to you? A hundred percent. And what's crazy is we've taken, I've taken friends back there over the years to that same spot, which anybody can go to, and people have experienced similar things. And so it's not just a one-off thing.

It happens all the time. It's Gettysburg. Guys, how does paranormal activity relate to a veteran, dyed-in-the-wool trial lawyer? How does it relate to cases that we are working on? I want you to take a listen to Hour Cut 7. I was listening to a news broadcast on a radio, and the night before, a girlfriend had called me on the phone

and asked me if I had heard about a nurse who had been kidnapped and was missing in our area. And I said, no, I hadn't heard about it. The following day at work, I listened to the radio, and they said that they had found the lady's vehicle on a dead-end street and that they were making a house-to-house search for her. And as soon as they said house-to-house search, it was as if I heard someone speaking to me said she's not in a house you are hearing the voice of etta smith who i personally interviewed here she's speaking to oprah listen and as soon as that thought registered i saw exactly where she was it was like there was a picture in front of me i i didn't know the name of the street but i knew the area i knew how to get there and i And I just knew.

Well, this was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I was at work. I get off work at 3.30. And I'm arguing with myself all the way home. Because when I get to a certain intersection, I either turn right to go home or I can turn left and I'll be right in front of the police department. Well, when I got to that intersection, I said, let them think I'm nuts. I have to stop. And more.

I talked to a homicide investigator, told him exactly the area. I said I knew that it's on the right-hand side going up this canyon road and that there was a dirt path going towards this person and with the hill behind her. He said they had not checked that area, that they would. And I said, well, you know, I have a feeling I will also. Inside, I wanted to be wrong, but I also felt that if I didn't check, I'd never know the truth. I didn't go with them. I went home. I told my children why I was late coming home, and they wanted to go with me. I told them I was going. I feel bad about that now

because at the time I wasn't thinking properly. I wouldn't have taken the children out to look for someone. I took two children with me plus a niece who was 21 at the time. And you found the body? Ultimately, yeah. This is a woman, perfectly practical. I spoke to her and she was just as down to earth as anybody you would ever meet.

Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. This woman, Etta Smith, has, I can only call it a vision. And she sees, as she told me, something white. As I recall, out in a canyon area, the nurse was wearing her white uniform, having just got off from work. Nicole Parton, when she tells police what she and her children, she takes her children out there, have discovered. What do they do? Well, obviously the body is found, but now she's in trouble because who would know this much detail about where the body was unless you had something to do with the murder. So they arrest this poor lady thinking that she has something to do with the crime. You're absolutely right, Nicole Parton.

Take a listen to Our Cut 11. Well, they said I knew too much about it not to have been involved because I had described in detail where she was, up this canyon road, on the side, on the right side, with a dirt path going to her and a hill behind her. They said I had to have been there to have known that. The questioning of Miss Etta Smith went on and on. Listen to Cut 12. It went on for hours. It went on until 10, 30, maybe at night. I don't think they're believing me.

I kept telling them the same thing. But this one officer, he became really belligerent through a chair and raised his voice to intimidate me. What, you think I'm involved in this? If I was capable of this, my husband would have been dead a long time ago. I'll take a lie detector test. I'll prove to you. I don't know anything about this other than what I've told you. They take her up on the offer. They said, you failed.

At that point, all conversation was over. They transported me to the Van Nuys jail, and I was booked and put in a cell. You're hearing curious true heroes but that's not all that happened to Miss Etta Smith. Take a listen to Hour 13. I am strip searched. I am cavity searched. I try to do the right thing and I end up in jail. She went out on a limb to try and find someone although in an unconventional way and and she was successful. And for that, she was literally brutalized for four days. I got dysentery and lost 12 pounds in 72 hours. There was no probable cause for her to be arrested,

simply because she found the body in an unusual way, and arresting her for that, for murder. I'm glad the jury agreed with us, and the judge agreed that having a psychic phenomenon is not probable cause to arrest someone. Isn't it true, Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com, she turned around and sued the police department and won. She did, absolutely, because she in fact had nothing to do with the crime, nothing at all. And she had been falsely accused and mistreated in this horrific way. And what really happened is, as she told me, is that the nurse victim got off of work from a late shift and was at a red light. And a group of guys pulled up beside her and started heckling her.

And they decided that they would kidnap and rape her. And then they killed her and dumped her body out in that canyon area. Her body would have clearly, over time, disintegrated, decomposed. The case may never have been solved if not for the vision Miss Etta told me that she had. And there's really no other way to explain it. Now, would I bring it into evidence? I don't know that I would. I don't know what I would do in that situation. I'd have to think long and hard about it because isn't it true, Daryl Cohen, you bring in one fact that the juries, the jurors reject, and that can cast doubt on your entire case. And your whole case could go, as I like to say, legal term, right down the crapper. Oh, absolutely, Nancy. If everybody is focused on one thing and one thing only.

Like the glove. The glove. OJ Simpson's glove. The one glove that didn't fit. Well, there was more to it, but that was a Johnny Cochran antic that worked. But that's another story for another trial. But absolutely, you bring in something picked from air, out of the blue, didn't exist. Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? All that we previously heard is not true? Yeah, like the glove. Everybody focused on that. If I were to introduce Ms. Etta,

who I found to be very credible, the jury could focus on that instead of all the other evidence, Daryl Cohen. Take it away. We're focusing on everything. All of a sudden, something from the far left or the far right shows up, and it's unusual, unique, and we're going to focus on that, and we're going to forget everything else that took place because they took away our staring, our ability to be completely precise, and this is something that we have to consider now because it's different. It's not what it was.

Are you kidding me? Are you really serious? But just because we can't introduce it into evidence does not mean it's not real take a listen our cut to um something what is running down my back like yes like a full like pet down my back. Like gently? Yeah. So what Roger was describing? Yeah.

She'd just do this to my back, right, to let me know that she was there. That was crazy. Crazy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Adam Barry is with us, paranormal researcher, executive producer, star of Kindred Spirits on the Travel Channel and Discovery. He's got a brand new book, Goodbye, Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding a, let me just say, a denigrating way. I'm not saying I don't believe or do believe. I'm arguing with Daryl Cohen about the practicality of introducing paranormal activity of any sort, including clairvoyance, in at trial. And Miss Etta was one.

We would do multiple shows when I was guest hosting for Larry King on Psychic Detectives because Larry absolutely did not believe in psychics in any way, and he did not want to do the show. So I'm, you know, working at Court TV at the time. I'm like, I'll do it. I'm like, I'll do it. Whatever it is, I'll do it. So I had never even considered supernatural activity or psychics in any way until then. And we would do entire programs where I would walk off the set going, what just happened? I can't make sense of it. I can't explain it. And that's where you come in, Adam Barry.

You applied to get on with Ghost Hunters. Why? I wanted to travel the country and search for the afterlife. I wanted to see if it was real. I wanted to have my own experience. I wanted to see it for myself. I didn't want someone to tell me that ghosts were real or not real. I wanted to make up my own mind. And that is why I started to do what I did. And about introducing it to evidence, like I honestly, I don't think you can introduce paranormal like things that I capture like on on video or on audio. I think that would be very hard to introduce into court because, you know, everything that we do is theory, right? It hasn't been proven 100%. Even psychics, it's hard. I mean, that story, it's crazy that she found this body. That's an insane story to me. And it was like, literally a modern day witch hunt from the police department. They took her, they arrested her,

because they could not grasp it. They could not understand it. And, you know, there are things that happen in this world that we don't have to understand. For instance, Amy and I were investigating an old Masonic temple, and we got evidence from a spirit that said, I was left down here, that their body was left in the basement. And I said, where? In the front part of the basement, in the middle part of the basement, or in the back? And it says the back. And so what did we do? We called in a cadaver dog to search the basement. And lo and behold, the dog landed on one specific spot in the back of the basement.

Didn't go anywhere else. So then we called in a ground penetrating radar. The guy said, yep, there's an anomaly under here. So then we called the state police of Massachusetts, Massachusetts State Police. They immediately said it was a crime scene. We all had our IDs taken. They were interviewing all of us because, lo and behold, they're like, what do you – why is this cadaver dog hitting on human remains? They bring in the state cadaver dog who hits on the same spot, and then they bring in a forensic team to start digging now the remains that they found were very very old they were they were not of any interest to

them because it was so old and they started getting water as they dug deeper but they took it so seriously because it was real and it was true and we had no idea did they find remains uh they said the remain that they said that there is something down here, but we've gone so far that it's just not feasible. You know, it's not here. And they said if the owner wants to continue the dig, they should call in the local archaeology team from the college and they can do further work. But it was real. And we were told that. Adam, let me ask you a question.

You wanted to have your own experiences. What would you say is the most compelling experience you've ever had that convinces you that there is a supernatural, that there is life after death? That's a very hard question. Oh, I feel the same way when people say, what's your favorite case? Like one murder or rape or child molestation is somehow a favorite. You know, no. But just give me an example. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I think it's a culmination of things. It's not just one thing because one thing doesn't make the truth.

One thing isn't convincing, but a number of things are convincing. Like I have seen apparitions. I have talked, there was a lady that I talked to, physically talked to as if she were a real person and standing in front of me. And I was with a group of people around and I'm talking to this woman and I turn my back and then she's gone and she disappeared. Nobody else saw her. Can I ask you what she was saying? Yes. We were at the Mount Washington Hotel in New Hampshire and she wanted to know what I was doing and why I was up in this space with this group of people. And she was wearing red sweatpants, a gray sweatshirt and holding a dirty Coke bottle. And I thought she was,

personally, I thought she was a party cratcher. I thought she was really weird looking. And something seemed very off about her. And I couldn't explain it, but I was trying to be very nice. And the second I... You mean she looked like a human? Yeah, she looked just like you and me. And what's funny is people say, well, how's that possible? And I said, how many people live in New York City and are on the subway

and see that weird guy at the end dressed in like 70s clothes acting a fool and they think he's just a someone who's like deranged or have a has a mental problem I was like how do you know that that person isn't a ghost did anybody talk to him did anybody go over to him and touch him okay Adam Adam now look you do know that what you said might sound crazy to some people. Yeah. But I know enough of you to know you are not crazy. You believe this has happened. Right. You have just published this incredible book. My question to you is, generally speaking, what is the most common message that these entities are trying to send?

What do they want? Most often, those that have passed on that are still here want help or recognition or communication. They want the same human interaction that they had in their living life, but they don't get it because they're hard to see and they're hard to hear. Why are they still here and not in either hell or heaven? Right. So there's many different reasons. Some stay behind to look after their legacy. Some stay behind to look after their family. Some stay behind because they don't know they're dead. Some stay behind because they refuse to go, whether they, you know, maybe they were a terrible person in this life,

and they think that hell awaits them, and for some reason they're not going. Now, that doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean that that's the case. But what we find is that these spirits need something or want something or have unfinished business. Adam Barry, why the book? Why the book? I wanted to write a book that wasn't just a ghost book. I wanted to write something that could help everyone better understand our own grief and mortality through the only lens that I know it. And that's the paranormal. You don't have to believe in ghosts. You don't have to believe me. But this book maybe can give somebody a different option if they're stuck in their sadness or if they want a different thought or feeling about the afterlife. It may give them something else to ponder.

You mean you can comfort grieving people by convincing them through these experiences, your experiences, that there is an afterlife. Right. And it's not even about convincing. It's just saying, hey, look, these stories are real to me. I've been doing this for a very long time and they mean a lot to me. Here's my story. Take with it what you will. And if it helps you, great. And I think the consensus so far is it does help. And I've been messaged by people who have gotten to the book who don't believe in ghosts. And they're like, you know, that religion chapter, I feel you. I grew up Southern Baptist. And I understand what you're saying about, you know, the spiritual body of our religion.

And I get it. And I think it's a universal concept. Well, I've got to tell you something, Adam Barry. If this were coming from anybody else, I would kick it right out the door. But I know that there are so many things that we as humans can never understand. We just don't have the capacity to do that.

This new book, Goodbye, Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through the Paranormal. Adam, I would absolutely consider putting you in front of my jury. Thank you. Thank you. You know what? Break a leg with this book and I hope and do believe that it can help many, many people that are grieving. And I want to thank

you for being with us, Adam Barry. And I expect that I'll watch it just climb straight up the charts. Thank you, Adam Barry. Goodbye. Hello. This is an iHeart Podcast.