Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Parents Killed, Dismembered, Bodies Decomposed for Days

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Justin Beck is used to talking with his parents, especially his mom. When Miriam Beck begins texting only, and not answering phone calls, Justin Beck goes to see his parents and sister to see what's wrong. Inside the home is a terrible odor and what looks like a body wrapped in a sheet.  Beck talks with his sister, Verity, for nearly 30 minutes. When the police are called, Verity Beck admits her parents, Reid and Miriam Beck, are dead. Officers discover a chainsaw and human remains in trashcans, wrapped in sheets. Joining Nancy Grace today: Matthew T. Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States" Caryn Stark- Psychologist, Trauma and Crime expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, Host of the new podcast, "Zone 7;" Twittier: @ColdCaseTips Dr. Kendall Avon Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner for Tarrant County (Ft. Worth), Lecturer for University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Do you have that couple in your neighborhood, that sweet little old couple that everybody adores because I did growing up and it was our next door neighbors the Andersons and then down the street maybe four houses the Wilsons and the Andersons raised all their children and they were like family to us. We'd see them every single day, every single night. That's who these people remind me of. And I'm talking about Reed and Miriam Beck, ages 73 and 72.

So what does the sweet couple next door have to do with a double dismemberment? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friend Dave Mack. Miriam and Reed Beck have been married for more than 43 years. The couple set up a good life in Havington Township, Pennsylvania, where Miriam works as a been married for more than 43 years. The couple set up a good life in Havington Township, Pennsylvania, where Miriam works as a school nurse for more than 20 years

and Reed works as a training director for the Steamfitters Local 420, long enough to retire. The Becks have two children. Their daughter works at a Catholic school for special needs children. Their son, Justin, has a special relationship with his mother, communicating every day, either through text or phone calls. And even after all these years, the couple still have a loving relationship. Neighbors report the Becks can be seen walking daily in the neighborhood, hand in hand. And that's just like Grady and Beulah Anderson that lived next to us my whole life growing up. Every evening, not when it was dark, but not when it was still hot during

the day in middle Georgia, about when everyone had come home from work and had had supper and maybe were settling in to watch TV, they would go out and go for a walk hand in hand every single night, very slowly. I always noticed that they would stop and like if someone had planted a new bush in their yard or, you know, raked the leaves, they would stand there for the longest time. I don't know what they were saying to each other, but they would stand there hand in hand and then look at the bush and then look at the roses and then they'd keep walking.

And needless to say, they had a beautiful yard, perfect yard. And so they would stop and look at everybody else's yard and just the sweetest people you'd ever want to meet. And that's what I think about these two. And when I'm reading about Mr. Beck, it reminds me of my dad. My dad was in the union and worked on the railroad. This guy was a training director for the Steamfitters local 420 his whole life, it looks like, because he retired with them. Now, back to how does this fit in with a double dismemberment? Take a listen to this.

Neighbors become worried as newspapers begin piling up outside the Beck home. Son Justin, who talked with his mother often, begins getting text messages only. Then, for over a week, nothing. Justin Beck goes to the home. The lights are off, but his parents' vehicles

are parked outside. Inside, Beck finds something resembling a corpse wrapped in a bloody sheet. 911 is called and police find the Beck's dismembered bodies. Okay, now that I've got this in my head, all I can think about are Grady and Beulah Anderson. And I remember asking my mom, I would be at Court TV or at HLN or at Fox Nation now. And I would

call my parents on the way home from work and go, how are you? What's going on? Have you seen Grady and Buell out walking? And mother would say yes, or daddy would say yes. And so they're fine. And whenever we'd have a big meal, we'd always take food over to Grady and Buell. And now I'm thinking about this couple, and I'm also looking at their pictures because they're really, really a lovely couple. A double dismemberment. Let me go to, well, we've got a fabulous panel, and I'll get to them one by one. But first to Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute.

She's also the host of a brand new podcast, which I love. Haven't been invited on yet. I guess invitation in the mail, snail mail. Zone 7 is her new hit podcast, and you can find her at coldcasecrimes.org.

Cheryl, you've been with me many times when we would be in court or wherever we were, and I would call home to check on mother and daddy. And what's interesting, and I'm talking about probative value, something that you can prove, is that this son of the two would always call and text every day. But his main MO, motorcylopyrindine method of operation, was to call home and speak. And, you know, that's just like my mom and dad because they weren't good at texting at that point. My mom's great at it now.

But we would call and talk. And when then suddenly mom no longer picking up the phone but it's continuing to text right there i smell a rat because there's a change in routine no question you and i talk all the time about patterns patterns patterns once that pattern is broken that should be the first red flag this crime took a lot of time to commit. But the cover-up, the length of time the person had from the time the crime ended until when the son really began to be concerned to go over there, they had a week, Nancy. Oh, a week to stage and to do everything. You know, I want you to take a listen to our friend Maggie Kent at WPVI.

How do you go from no calls for service to probably one of the worst crimes that we have seen? Abington police got the call for a wellness check at 1165 Beverly Road, made by the son of the couple who lived there. Responding officers could not have imagined what was going on inside. What they discovered, you can't unsee that. A married couple in their 70s, Reed and Miriam Tony Beck, were found murdered and dismembered by a chainsaw. Murdered and dismembered by a chainsaw. Has everybody and their cousin been watching Dexter and they think it's so easy to dismember a body. I've got news for you. It is not easy to dismember a body. Not at all.

The Lord made us pretty sturdy. And I'm going to go to an expert. If you thought I was going to say Cheryl McCollum, no. She has never dismembered a body. Not that I know of anyway. But I've got a guy with me who can tell you all about it. Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, Lecturer University, Texas, Austin, and Texas Christian University Medical

School. That's not shabby, Dr. Kendall Crowns. Dr. Kendall Crowns, could you tell me how difficult is it to dismember, saw apart a body? I mean, think about it. Hold on. Hold on, Dr. Crowns. Let's go to Karen Stark. She's this little bitty, petite, beautiful, precious. She looks like a doll that would just break apart.

Psychologist or an else psychologist, as a matter of fact, joining us out of Manhattan. She's a trauma and crime expert. You can find her at Karenarenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, have you ever tried to saw anything in half? Ever? I've never used a saw, Nancy.

But I have to tell you, anybody, and we both know this, anybody who would even attempt to dismember a body who is not a forensic expert trying to be there as a medical examiner, anything like that, it takes guts. Can I ask you, Karen Stark, aside from the moral and physical fortitude you believe it takes to saw a body apart, even though you've never picked up a saw in your life. Could you give me, in less than five words,

why you've never tried to saw anything in half? I never do any of that kind of work. Because it's too hard. It's too hard. Cheryl McComb, have you ever sawed anything in half? Yes, I have absolutely. I knew you were going to say that. I knew it.

I knew you were going to say that. Even me and my sister Charlene. Uh-oh, uh-oh. Now Charlene's getting into the whole thing. You and Charlene have sawed something in half. What was it? We would enter the log sawing contest. And I'm going to tell you, nothing will wear you out quicker.

Where were you in a log sawing contest, and I'm going to tell you, nothing will wear you out quicker. Where were you in a log sawing contest? At the Sogham Furrow Festival. Okay, see, that's my fault. See, this is totally my fault, because isn't it true, Matthew T. Mangino, high-profile lawyer, you never ask the question, you don't know the answer. See, I asked. I knew the answer with Karen Stark. She's got the perfect nails, the slender arms. I knew this girl had not picked up a song. Now, I didn't ask Cheryl to start because I knew she probably had. But I didn't know she entered the what, Cheryl? The Sorghum Syrup what?

Sorghum Syrup Festival in North Georgia. Yeah. I asked yeah, Nancy. I asked that, Matthew. That was poor cross-examination. Very poor. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace let me ask you matthew mangino high profile lawyer former district attorney author of the executioner's toll and can i tell you what i like about the book it's the crimes arrest trials appeals last meals and final words of 46 people in the U.S. Because I'm always interested, what do they say to explain away whoever they murdered,

and what do they decide they want for their last meal? That's why I like your book. I mean, Gino, have you ever sawed anything in half? I have sawed things in half. Not very well. What? Wood, other things that around the home. I'm not a

handy guy. So, basically not so much. Alright, I've got one other person I need to ask and I'm hearing in my ear, we're just being joined by CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Nicole Parton. Now, Nicole Parton is not just an investigative

reporter. She's a mom and she has adopted. How many children have you Now, Nicole Parton is not just an investigative reporter. She's a mom, and she has adopted, how many children have you adopted, Nicole? Five. Wow. You know what? Five, and I only have eight in my home. You are an angel, and you have earned your way into heaven, according to me. Of course, I'm not the ultimate authority on that, but I don't think I'd even be a very good reference, so don't use me when you get to the pearly gates.

Nicole, with all those children, you had to have sawed something in half. I have, Nancy. I must confess, I do own a chainsaw and I have cut a tree in half. Why? I was just, you know, handling business myself. You know how it is. Why did you have to cut a tree in half? I'm just curious.

The tree had fallen and it was going to take a long time for for workers to come out and okay got it out of the way so just got out there with the chainsaw well i'm all about diy as you guys know but i remember i was in um off on a trial somewhere and there had been a horrible snow, sleet, ice disaster back home in Georgia. And my then, now husband, was here and he was grounded because he travels all the time with his job and he happened to be Atlanta to catch the blizzard. And I called him. I said, hey, are you okay? I'm so glad the phones are working. He goes, yeah. I'm like, what's that in the background? He goes, it's his chainsaw. I'm like, what? He said, yeah, I went and got a chainsaw. I'm like, you put that down right now, and you leave the trees right where they are, or you'll be missing a leg the next thing you know. Anyway, thank you, heaven. He only destroyed one tree before he put the chainsaw down.

Now, leading up to Dr. Kendall Crowns. The reason we don't like to saw things in half is because it's really hard. Oh, Cheryl McCollum, did you and your sister win by chance? Or did you place in the sorghum syrup? What did she say it was? Log splitting cutting contest we were champions two years running undefeated you know what i don't believe her i want to check that out because i think she's totally lying dr kittle crowns how hard is it to cut up a human

body it's really hard so it depends on where you cut at so So if you go to joint spaces, it's actually quite easy to dismember a body. I've done that a few times over the years. But if you go to like mid shaft of the bone or something like that, it is. Why were you dismembering a body? Well, we occasionally have to remove sections of the body to evaluate them with anthropology. So you have to remove remove parts legs arms i've even removed head for the anthropologist well you just have all the fun don't you that i do every day dr crowns but wouldn't you have to know where exactly where to cut to make it so easy

because I think it's really hard. I mean, I can barely pull a chicken apart to fry the darn thing, much less. Well, so, yeah. Yes, you would have to know, but just by saying you pulled a chicken apart, you know the basics of joint spaces. I didn't do it very well, Dr. Crowns.

I had to get out a knife. Well, practice makes perfect. And it went from bad to worse. You know, as I've been told, you can buy them already in pieces. That said, Dr. Kendall Crowns, you're making it sound easy, but it's not easy for a layperson to dismember a body. If you don't know what you're doing and you're cutting through bone what happens so commonly the mistake is people don't go for joint spaces you're correct

most people try and cut in the mid portion of a bone and it is very difficult to cut through bone especially if you don't have an electric saw because most of the ones most people have a hacksaw that they try and cut through bone with and they get very tired so uh a lot of the dismemberment cases we see is they become frustrated or fed up with trying to cut through the body and just end up giving up or lighting them on fire which is also a very inefficient way of disposing about you know what unless you wrap them in tires matthew mcgin, have you ever had a case that you had to defend where the victim had been dismembered? Well, I actually had a prosecution,

well, I actually defended a case in which there was some effort at dismemberment. It was prior to when I was a prosecutor, and it was a very futile effort at dismemberment, but there was an effort to dismember a person who ultimately was charged, as in this case, with first-degree murder. Guys, we're talking about a beautiful couple, a couple who, by all accounts, as far as we know right now, certainly did not deserve this. Take a listen to our friend Kevin Steele, the Montgomery County District Attorney. He was wrapped in a white sheet and comforter.

And they were also, unfortunately, able to see that there was evidence of Miriam in the house also and she was deceased. There were signs of extreme trauma. I'll tell you that a chainsaw was found. Both Reed and Miriam were found in different stages of dismemberment. Various stages of dismemberment. So whoever started didn't finish. And this would never have been discovered if the son hadn't gotten concerned because his mom was only texting back and he couldn't get her on the phone.

You know, to you, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, the shock of finding your parents not only dead, but dead and dismembered. I mean, you and I talked forever after I sat in the room with my dad when he passed away. And I almost wish I hadn't, but yet I'm glad I did because I could never forget those moments. I'd rather remember him alive and happy as opposed to that. But that sticks with you forever, Karen.

Yes, it does, Nancy, and I do remember what happened with your dad. And what a way to discover that, I mean, at least you understood what had happened to your dad and what a way to discover that i mean at least you understood what has happened to your dad but can you imagine if you walk into a scene and you realize that your parents are dead but personally something happens and they've been dismembered or hidden or something horrific, and that's the thing that you walk into. You will never get over that. Cheryl McCollum, you and I have dealt with so many crime victims. It's the shock, the shock of not only your loved one being dead,

but from violence, much less a dismemberment. No wonder crime victims are never the same. This would be something that your mind would not even allow you to process almost. Like you would not even be able to understand what you were seeing. And again, he probably had some concern that something had happened. You know, maybe they weren't feeling well. Maybe something was going on with his mom's phone. But again, it was enough care and concern that he had to go over there personally when he could no longer reach them by phone. Guys, now take a listen to Kevin Steele, the district attorney. The autopsy revealed that both Reed and Miriam were shot in the head.

We believe that happened first. There is evidence that a pillow was used in the shot, and it was one shot to each of their heads. So we hope and pray that that happened first. Dr. Kendall Crowns, medical examiner out of Fort Worth. When someone has been dismembered, it makes it so difficult to determine COD cause of death. How do you do it? As in this case, it was by gunshot wound.

So usually with the dismembered bodies, if there's an intervening cause of death, like a gunshot wound, stab wound, something of that nature, the wound itself will have blood throughout the wound course. So you know the individual was alive when they were shot or stabbed. with the cutting of the tissues and ripping away of the bones so that the wounds will actually be fairly bloodless and they will kind of have a tannish dry appearance to them. So you can separate out post-mortem injuries versus anti-mortem injuries or before death injuries versus after death injuries based on the tissue reaction of the blood. And that's usually what we find with dismemberments is they always are occurring after the fact, after the individual's dead. Okay, let me try to translate that into regular people talk. I think you said that dismemberment usually occurs after the murder and therefore the

cuts due to dismemberment do not bleed or do not bleed very much. And you look at the body parts to determine if you can find a bullet wound or a stab wound, which would have bled. Is that what you just said? Correct. Because when you get the initial gunshot wound, your heart's still beating. And then when they're cutting parts off of you, the blood is just oozing and there's no beating heart. Do you ever just hear what you're saying, like an objective bystander, and it all seems so normal? You sound like you're describing a painting by Monet.

It's just very calm, and you're talking about the blood still is pumping while you're alive, and then after the murder, the blood's not pumping anymore. And so when you cut the body apart, there's not a lot of blood. You said that as cool as a cucumber. Well, if I present my findings in an emotional manner, I am no good at court because I don't come off as logical in thinking and instead am an emotional basket case. So it's best to be in a logical manner when presenting findings. You know what you are, Krabs?

You're brilliant. You're absolutely brilliant because nobody wants an agitated or excitable professional. Like, I don't want a lawyer or a doctor or an accountant, not to compare you to an accountant, of course, you don't want them to be excitable and agitated and emotional. No, no, no. You're absolutely right, Dr. Krause. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we're talking about this as if it's a theory. But these are two lovely people, a mom and a dad, two seniors that walk hand in hand through the neighborhood every day. And again, I just keep thinking about Grady and Beulah, our next door neighbors. And who would do this? Trying to determine the answer to that question. Who would have done this to such a lovely couple? Well, when you don't know who did it, you look at the victims.

In this case, did they have any enemies? Were they involved with drugs? Did they sneak away to Vegas on the weekend and blow a lot of money? Who are these people? Take a listen to our friend Maggie Kent, WPVI. The community is reeling. Miriam Tony Beck was a school nurse for 20 years at Lower Moreland High School. Reed Beck was a retired training director of Steamfitters Local Union 420. Just a friendly, nice man who, you know, when you think about it today, you step back and reminisce. I mean,

he taught the generation of apprentices. Understandably, it is really difficult for neighbors and friends to talk about the Becks in past tense. But there is a few stories that they wanted to share. One being that the Becks would go for a walk almost daily. Every single day, they were seen walking down the street, holding hands. So to Matthew Mangino joining us from near this jurisdiction, Matthew Mangino, high-profile lawyer and author. Matthew, it's not them. They don't have a risky lifestyle. They're not shooting up on the corner.

She's not a hooker. He's not selling drugs. They don't sneak away to Vegas and blow all their money. They don't have any enemies. They're the people in the neighborhood that everybody loves. It's like clockwork every day. They walk around the neighborhood. She was a school nurse for 20 years. There's no mystery there because defense attorneys very often will somehow try to blame the victim in some way. a school nurse for 20 years. There's no mystery there. Because defense attorneys very often will somehow try to blame the victim in some way. But these people are spotless.

They're pure. Right. And if I was looking at this case initially, you know, I would want to know, you know, was there a robbery? Were there things taken from the home? And was there other things that might be indicative of a stranger intruder? But the thing that would catch my eye would be the aspect of dismemberment. And dismemberment indicates someone who is trying to get rid of the evidence, get rid of the body. And so someone who comes in and commits a robbery, they're going to get the money, they'll kill you, and they're gone.

They're not going to try to dismember your body and put it into a garbage can and dispose of it. So I'm thinking right off the bat, if I'm investigating this or advising investigators, is who would want to kill these people and then dispose of their bodies, dispose of the others. You know, Matthew Mangino, that is very clear thinking and extremely astute. And in that line, take a listen to the DA. We are looking for what motive could have been behind this. I can't share one with you at this time. We did find evidence in the house of a safe that had been attempted to be broken into.

And we also believe that this happened over a period of some time. Their voices were last heard by a family member on the 7th of January, so we believe that they may have been decomposing in that time, Also, unfortunately, the smell that the officers got when they first came into the house. To Dr. Kidnell Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Fort Worth. Dr. Crowns, why do decomposing bodies smell? And it's a smell you'll never forget. It's unlike anything else it's a decomposing body smell because the bacteria that's in your intestines that help you digest food and all that after you die

are no longer kept in check by the body and begin digesting or deep or breaking you down into a more breaking your body down so it's the bacteria in your body that breaks you down and when they break the breaks the body down it creates kind of sulfur and other compounds that create that distinctive odor and that's and then gases as well as methane is one that's produced by the breakdown of the body by bacteria so again it's your body's bacteria breaking you down into simpler matter. You know, Cheryl McCullough reminds me of top mom Casey Anthony. Remember when her truck was opened by her own mother, Cindy Anthony, and the mom said it smells like a dead body's been in the car? Right. There is a smell about a dead body I really can't explain. It's unlike any other smell, and you'll never forget it.

And there's no way to ignore it. There's no way to say it's anything else. Casey Anthony tried to say it was a rotten pizza box or something. Not even close. You know, the sad thing, again, in this situation, it seems like they were in that state for some period of time in their home alone. And that's a real shame. And that's a real indicator.

Because as I've said about many other high-profile cases, who would take the time and the effort to do this? To Nicole Parton joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. So someone did try to get into the safe, but seemingly was unsuccessful. Do you know if there was a forced entry? Was anything else taken? Were either one of them sex assaulted before or after death? Do we know any of that? There was no sign of forced entry, no signs of any sexual abuse, sexual assault. We do know that there were holes that had been drilled into the family safe. So obviously someone that did not have the code or the key had tried to get into the safe, but were unsuccessful.

We're also being told that nothing else was missing from the home. So someone came into the home, no forced entry, and drilled holes into the Beck's safe in their home? Correct. So someone was trying to get into that safe that didn't have a key, didn't have the combination. They were unsuccessful, but they had drilled holes into the safe trying to get into it. Nicole Parton, I'm sure you have. Have you looked at their home? It's perfectly kept. Like their yard is perfect. The shrubs are perfect. There is not one leaf from those trees. Most of them are evergreens though. Not one leaf on the lawn. Nothing. The walkway up to their front door is perfectly clean. The sidewalk in front of their home, everything's perfect. But my point is, the home is not a mansion.

It's a pretty ritzy area. I'll grant you that. Isn't that a suburb of Philly, Matthew Mangino? Yes, it is. It's in Montgomery County, about 15 miles from Philadelphia. It's the home of Pennsylvania's new governor, Josh Shapiro.

So it's a nice neighborhood, but this home itself is not a multi-million dollar mansion. It looks like a family home that somebody bought back in the 50s or 60s maybe and raised their children, their two children, and that

the parents still live there for a school nurse and a union man. You know, it reminds me a lot of the home I grew up in, as a matter of fact. But who would want to break in to a home like that and try to get into the safe? There is no way somebody would break into that home and murder two people and then be unsuccessful with that safe. There's no way. If anything else, they would try to, you know, take it off the wall, take it with them. This sounds like somebody that almost Googled how to break into it and failed miserably. But back to Dr. Kendall Crown, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, Fort Worth. I know that their voices were last heard on the 7th of January.

They had been decomposing for many days. To that degree, if you have that degree of decomposition, doctor, can you still determine COD cause of death? Yes, you can. You can still figure out what people died from. The injuries are still there. You'll still find damage to the organs, even though they may be decomposed or liquefied. But you will also find injuries to the bones as well that will be significant for gunshot wounds or fractures that are significant for beatings and things like that.

So what would have to happen to the body in order for there to be an undetermined cause of death? They would have to be literally cremated. Otherwise, most of the time we are able to figure out a cause of death. Cremated, and to be cremated, you have really high temperatures, not like an oven or a fire in the back of the yard. They have to be incinerator gray temperatures to get rid of it, right? To get rid of evidence.

That's correct. So, guys, I want you to take a listen to Ann McCormick, WPVI. It was a couple's son who grew concerned after he hadn't spoken to his parents in a week. He went to their home, saw a body inside, confronted his sister, and then left and called 911. The couple's son told authorities he believed that he was texting with his parents all week. Now authorities believe his sister was using the parents' phone to make the son think that they were still alive. Cheryl McCollum, what do you make of that? Someone going to the lengths of fake texting. We saw that with Brian Laundrie and Gabby Petito,

where he referred to her, I believe it was her uncle or grandfather, by their name, like Tom, instead of saying Grandpa. How's Grandpa? Right. She said, How's Tom? And they went, That's not right. Correct. how's grandpa right she said how's tom and they went that's not right correct i think everything she did after these murders to cover up the crime is very telling hiding them under sheets the head men and dismembering trying to you know hide the bodies she had to get chainsaws and

dollies she had to keep the phones charged n, in order to do this text messaging. She told him that she herself was sick, trying to get him not to come over. She turned the lights out. She wouldn't answer the door. She moved the bodies with that dolly, creating the marks in the carpet. She did something every single day, every single minute after these murders to try to cover it up. In furtherance of a cover-up, take a listen to Marcus Espinoza, Fox 29. Steele believes that the parents were killed on or around January 7th. The daughter is a resident of the home, and Steele says it's clear she tried to hide the bodies,

both by dismemberment and also may have impersonated the parents via cell phone. That's when their voices had last been heard. And I say that specifically because it seems like the daughter may have had access to their phones and may have been texting on their behalf. Wow. Okay. There's no way around that. Matthew Mangino, if that can be proved, that is serious intent. Well, yeah, there's no question. I mean, there are certain situations here that lend itself to the fact that she understood what she was doing and she understood

right from wrong. Although this is macabre and you're in a house for a number of days with your deceased parents while you're trying to dismember their bodies, that is indicative of someone who knows that they did something wrong and are trying to cover it up. So it doesn't look like insanity is going to be an option in this case. Nancy? Yeah, jump in. Dr. Karastar, go ahead.

So this type of person, I want to That's Dr. Karen Starr. Go ahead. So this is this type of person I want to tell you is not mentally ill. And certainly doesn't have any kind doesn't suffer from what we know of severe abuse. She's an antisocial offender. What do you mean by that? That means that she's doing this for selfish reasons. Her parents are in her way. She wants something like their money or freedom. In this case, it seems like money because somebody tried to break into the safe, and I assume it must be her. And so she lacks emotion. She lacks empathy for others. She doesn't, she knows exactly what she's doing, but she doesn't care. Antisocial, you know, I hear that phrase used a lot, of course, in common vernacular. But when you think of it in the sense of a psychiatric or psychological disorder, it takes on a whole different meaning, Karen Stark. That's right, because it really is describing a personality, somebody that we have trouble really comprehending because they don't have a conscience and they don't care. Makes you think of

the brothers, Lila and Eric Mendez, right? Right. Mendez, who killed their parents and they knew what they were doing. They really wanted the money. I still have in my head about that Karen Stark, which we've talked about a lot. The mother, Kitty Menendez, crawling down the hall begging for her life and they just followed her with a gun and killed her.

To Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Nicole, take a listen to Maggie Kent, WPVI. Their 43-year-old daughter, Verity, was inside, as were three guns. Police knew they needed to approach with caution. They used drones. They threw in a camera, which was able to search most of the area. When they breached the door and made their way inside,

Verity walked down the steps, hands raised. She just confirmed that her parents were deceased and was concerned about her cats and dog. They were the only words that she uttered. It's evident that the Becks had been deceased for some time. They were both shot once in the head. Whether they were sleeping or not, you just hope that they were. Nicole Parton, what can you tell me about the arrest of the adult daughter, Verity Beck? Verity Beck is a schoolteacher at St. Catherine's School of Special Education. She's now facing two counts of first-degree murder for the death of her parents. Decapitated her father and severed her mother into eight pieces

nancy with a chainsaw okay hold on will you say that one more time what decapitated her father and then cut her mother into eight pieces threw her in the trash cans in the garage the chainsaw was still laying there with the biological material on it from her family and she was karen stark boy do i need to shrink again all she said was she was worried about her cats and dogs uh let me tell you nancy that she can connect to animals because animals just they give to you you don't have to really interact with them in an important way. And think about that. It's just amazing that she had no hesitation.

She was able to decapitate her father and take apart her mother in eight pieces. I can't even cut up a piece of chicken. I mean, think about it. She just chopped her mother up, Cheryl McCollum, in, what, seven or eight pieces. And when the cops come in, she goes, well, what about my cat and dog? That's right. And even before that, Nancy, she spent 30 minutes talking to her own brother in that scene with their parents dead, with blood everywhere. Like nothing was wrong. Like she was just sitting in the living room reading a magazine. And there's like eight pieces of her mother over there. Guys, take a listen now to WPVI. Verity used this chainsaw

and then had put parts of her parents into trash bags. This 55-gallon trash bin, authorities say, held some of the couple's remains and was transported to the coroner's office along with her father's decapitated body. Tuesday evening, the couple's concerned son entered the home, found a body with a sheet over it, spoke to his sister, left, and called 911. When police arrived, they made the grisly discovery and they asked Verity, where are your parents? And Verity replied, they are dead. Shooting her elderly parents in their heads, dismembering their bodies with a chainsaw, stuffing them in trash cans. This all comes to light after the adult son tells cops he had not spoken to his parents verbally since Jan 7.

Possible motive? Do we care what the motive is? Take a listen to more from ABC Philly. They also found guns belonging to Verity and believe they found the murder weapon. The crime left neighbors dumbfounded. I'm completely stunned. It's a quiet neighborhood, very friendly, kids all over the place. Authorities are still searching for a motive. We did find evidence in the house of a safe that had been attempted to be broken into. A daughter shooting her parents in the head before using a both worked on dismemberment cases where portions of the victim, well,

where the victim was in portions. I think that that's very difficult for a jury to take in, not only the murder, but the dismemberment when the person is actually sane, because you would expect the defendant to be insane to commit a dismemberment. You would. And, you know, you're also talking about somebody that was a special education teacher. So you have this idea that they are a comfort to people and understand and are patient and kind. And then she's able to do something like this for seemingly no reason at all. But if you take everything step by step, this was not somebody 18 or 19. This was a woman, middle-aged, still living with her parents. That's a flag. The fact that she's going to buy all these

guns, for what? That's a flag. Now you've got these issues that are probably well known to the brother, because again, when he goes over there, he doesn't flip out. He's able to talk to her calmly for 30 minutes in order, I believe, to save his own life. Matthew Mangino question. This is in Pennsylvania. Now, Pennsylvania does have the death penalty, but is it correct that no one has been executed since around 1976? Well, yeah, there have been three executions since 1976 in Pennsylvania. They were all volunteers, people who gave up their rights and just agreed to be executed. was in 1999. And Governor Wolf, who just left office, had imposed a moratorium on signing death warrants. So, you know, the death penalty, while it's on the books and there's a hundred and some people on death row, it's not working in Pennsylvania. Karen Stark, what do you make of a person that is legally sane, but not only murders their parents and then dismembers?

Well, we go back, Nancy, to the fact that there are no feelings. She has no emotions. She can only connect to, I guess, children and animals because they don't demand much from you. They just care about you and love you. She is not like anybody that we usually know. She doesn't care. And now the son is left with nothing but memories of his parents walking hand in hand through the neighborhood. I know he will never be able to reconcile that image, that loving image, with what he saw in the home that day. His parents murdered and dismembered and his sister sitting there like nothing had happened.

We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.