Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Parkland School Shooter Spared Death Penalty; Attorney Under Investigation After Flashing Middle Finger in Court

Episode Date: November 6, 2022

A Florida jury has recommended life in prison for teen who killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. Nikolas Cruz was spared the death penalty because in Florida, the jury must unanimously agreed.  The 12 jurors deliberated for about seven hours. Ultimately, three jurors voted against the death penalty.  On top of the life sentence, now an attorney who represented  Cruz is being investigated by the Florida Bar Association. While a spokesperson for the agency did not disclose the probe's scope, many suspect the investigation is related to the fact thatTamara Curtis was caught on camera apparently filmed flashing the middle finger in court.  Curtis was reportedly seen raising her middle finger while rubbing her cheek, eliciting laughs from herself and Cruz. Many parents of the victims expressed the immaturity of the action.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. The families of the victims of the Parkland shooting massacre enraged when the mass killer Nicholas Cruz does not get the death penalty. Speaking out, begging for justice. To top it all off, to add insult to injury, now, the court of shame. In the last hours, Nicholas Cruz's lawyer investigated for flipping the bird in court, right in front of the victim's families. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. That's right.

Tamara Curtis, one of the lead lawyers in the fleet of attorneys defending mass shooter Nicholas Cruz, was actually recorded shooting a bird in court. Listen. A member of Parkland school shooter Nicholas Cruz's defense council is under investigation by the Florida State Bar. Tamara Cruz was caught on camera during a pretrial recess hearing where she appears to flash a bird at the court. In footage, Curtis appears to catch the side of a courtroom camera and waves.

She makes an inaudible comment to a woman sitting next to her. That woman seems to suggest the gesture, flashing a brief middle finger herself while looking at Curtis. Curtis then raises her middle finger, looking at the camera, placing it flat against her cheek, then rubs it up and down her cheek. Curtis is laughing and sitting beside a smirking Nicholas Cruz. What prompted the gesture isn't known, but Fred Guttenberg, the father of 14-year-old victim Jamie Guttenberg, has said that the attorney has been frustrated by how the judge was responding to her courtroom arguments. Little is known about when the investigation began,

but an investigation has indeed been confirmed by the Florida State Bar. Now, the last time I've actually seen that happen was when Jodi Arias who was convicted of murdering her lover Travis Alexander 29 stabs we think I think there were 30 plus a shot to the head left to decompose in a damp shower she shot a bird at me in that Arizona courtroom. But an attorney is held to a higher standard than a killer, a convicted killer. An attorney is the officer of the court. You are bound to at least try to always do the right thing. Now, let me jog your memory. Nicholas Cruz murdered 17 people and injured 17 more when he went on a shooting rampage at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland, Florida.

Parents, raw with emotion, furious. Other family members, not only does Nicholas Cruz escape the death penalty after mass murder of children, his lawyer is shooting birds in court. Family members call it disgusting and also slammed her for being so chummy with the man who murdered high schoolers. Why? Because she is recorded on camera joking and laughing in court. Listen to Fred Guttenberg, the father of a 14-year-old victim. The defense, to be a defense attorney in a situation like this, I get it, you have a job, but it doesn't mean you need to lose your humanity towards the victims, which they did.

And their inability to ever, for a second, either in the courtroom or outside of the courtroom, have a human moment with us, a civil moment, was despicable. Looking at attorney Tamara Curtis take her middle finger and rub it up and down her cheek when she lost an argument in the courtroom and then to start laughing with the killer over it like an immature punk child, I will never, ever, ever forgive that moment. But that's who they were. So I will tell you, the state did its job. bodies of the victims possibly autopsy photos bloody clothes recordings of parents screaming trying to find their children that day everyone running around the high school trying to figure out what had happened and these two are yucking it up in court and then to top it all off

tamra curtis an officer of the court on the defense team, shoots a bird. Now, the defense team actually complained they were being unfairly attacked by the victim's families. That prompted the judge, thank heavens, you got a smart judge, Judge Elizabeth Scherer, to defend the victim's families. What you are doing right now is highlighting something and making more of a spectacle. So if your office in general does not want to facilitate or incite violence, then we need to just sit down and move on. That's it. There were 18 witnesses, 16 or 18 witnesses that testified today. There was nothing that was said until Ms. McNeil made her point made.

And, you know, we're moving on. But is the court going to do anything about maybe stopping it from happening again? When these people are upset about specific things that have gone on from that table, like shooting the middle finger up at this court and laughing and joking miss mcneil be quiet when these people have sat in this courtroom and watched this behavior from that table and they want to say that they're not happy about it what is the problem how did the jury end up letting this guy who murdered so many children escape the death penalty? The jury said it could not unanimously agree Cruz should be executed.

And that's kind of a default in our law. Like you win by default. If they can't agree on the death penalty, it defaults to life behind bars. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. How did the whole thing begin? My son is in Stoneman. He said he heard noises in the house and he thinks there's a shooting going on at the school.

Okay, we do have police on scene. 911, what is your emergency? I think I hear gunshots. What is the address where you heard it, sir? I don't know. I'm in Parkland, Ohio. It sounds like it's over towards the high school, towards Douglas. Might have been gunshots maybe 15 minutes ago or so, and then I just heard four or five right in the road just a few minutes ago. What you don't want to hear, a 911 call about gunshots near a high school?

Listen. 911, what is your emergency? I'm sorry, I can't hear you. What's happening? Someone is doing what? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello?

Is being shot up? Are you at the school? I can't hear you. Are you at the school? The 911 caller trying to whisper into the phone that the school is being shot up and then hangs up. Joining me, an all-star panel, but first, I want to go to David Avaya, crime reporter, Miami Herald. David, thank you for being with us. Why was the 911 caller whispering?

Well, the 911 caller was whispering because there was a shooter inside that was shooting up the school. And of course, you know, just like we saw in Ubalde and other places where we have people who are desperately calling 911 from inside the premises on these school shootings. So that 911 caller is actually inside Marjorie Stoneman while trying to call 911 and he's trying to whisper so the shooter doesn't see him. He's trying to not attract the shooter's attention. Yes and you know this was obviously a huge stunning event for a lot of the students that were there so there was a lot of confusion about where the shooter was, when help was coming, whether there was more than one shooter, right? So there was a lot of confusion. So that's why, hence the whispering. Take a listen now to our friends at ABC.

At two in the afternoon, gunshots ring out in this South Florida high school. Terrified students hiding in classrooms during the gunman's rampage. The shooter reportedly first pulled a fire alarm to get more students out of the classroom maximizing potential victims. As soon as the fire drill got pulled, the fire alarm got pulled and kids were evacuating. I heard five pops. He was just very focused he was very focused on what he was doing I was in the classroom and all of my ear was shocked and I was just like oh my gosh what's happening and we're just

sitting on the floor and we're just panicking crime stories with nancy grace how did the jury end up letting this guy who murdered so many children escape the death penalty the jury said it could not unanimously agree Cruz should be executed. And that's kind of a default in our law. Like you win by default. If they can't agree on the death penalty, it defaults to life behind bars. Take a listen to our friends at ABC. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my understanding that you have reached a verdict in this case. Nicholas Cruz spared the death penalty. A Florida jury instead recommending the Parkland gunman spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole.

One by one, the judge reading the jury sentencing recommendation for each of the 17 victims. Many of the families angry and stunned. Some walking out. What it says to me, what it says to my family, what it says to the other families is that his life meant more than the 17 that were murdered. The jury's foreman says three voted against it. Prosecutors argued Cruz was a sociopath and that the massacre was premeditated. In the end, the defense appears to have convinced at least some jurors that Cruz was mentally ill after his mother's drug abuse and drinking while pregnant.

The evidence this jury heard and this court heard and these spectators heard is just beyond your worst nightmares. Speaking of the evidence, our friends at ABC. The jury seeing graphic security footage showing victims shot multiple times at point blank range. Joaquin Oliver also shot in the head. Did Joaquin get justice today? No, he did not. He did not. The only one who got the way to get out of this was the defendant. 17 Julia 5, I have the gunshot victim.

I have the gunshot victim. He's by the entrance to West Glade on the west side of the school. 4, virus is being notified. Mary, does anyone want to shoot or not? We don't know, but we're entering the building, 13 building, building 13. 17, Kilo 4, myself are entered. Does anybody have bolt cutters? I can get this kid out of the fence. He's stuck in the fence, I need bolt cutters. The coach is with him of the fence he's stuck in the fence i need bolt cutters

the coach is with him see if he can help him over the gate with me now michelle michelle ditmeyer who was barricaded trying to save her own life inside the school michelle what happened so we were in class there was about like 20 minutes left in school and the fire alarm went off Michelle, what happened? students but she said no it's an emergency we have to go and if that student didn't try and convince my teacher i probably would have ran towards the area where the shooter was because that's where my evacuation zone is but since it was a little later there's a security guard downstairs telling us to run the other way at that moment i still thought it was a fire drill so i ran out of the red gate but then our assistant principal told me to come back inside and go in the auditorium. And as I'm walking in, my aunt called me because my uncle is an emergency personnel, so he knew the news right away, and they let me know what was happening. Every single person around me, including the teachers,

thought it was an active shooter drill because they were told we were going to have one soon just so we can know what to do in that situation. And I was the only person there who knew that it was not a drill and I had to tell everybody no, like let everybody know to tell their family members they love them because there is a shooter it's real and wait a minute wait a minute michelle so you find out because you have a

relative in law enforcement or emergency personnel and you start telling everybody guys this is real what what what was happening around you what was everybody doing and saying everybody was just like acting calm like it wasn't serious and they're telling everybody like even the teachers were saying like it's just a drill like remain calm and I had to tell the teacher I'm like it's not real my aunt just called me and let me know what's happening and you know we just need to stop speaking and get down and lay quiet. So that way he doesn't know that we're in here. And it broke my heart having to tell all these people that it was on campus. Like, I was the one who had to do it. And I just sat there on the auditorium floor shaking for the whole entire two hours that I was there.

What did you hear? What could you hear in the background? There was a security guard in our room, so he was, like, giving us updates about what's happening. And, like, there was just a bunch of cops outside, and they would come in and scream at us to get down because some students weren't. And then cops came in to, like, search behind the stage,

and it was just all very scary of everything that was happening. So you were lying on the floor? How were you barricaded? Yeah, like, we were in between the seats of the auditorium on the floor. Take a listen. Sound of the auditorium on the floor. Take a listen. Sound of the shooting. Joining me right now, John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. John, what do we know about the shooter, Nicholas Cruz? He had been expelled from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High campus, especially with a backpack, that students,

teachers were to immediately alert security because he had been posting for quite some time, especially on Instagram, photos of this arsenal of weapons he had at 17. These posts about how he was going to take down law enforcement, how he was going to shoot up the school. And as we now know, that is exactly what he did. I don't understand this. How everybody at school knew about a teen boy having an arsenal and posting about shooting up the school but the parents didn't know and another thing I

don't understand joining me is Wendy Patrick California prosecutor if the school knew about it how come the parents didn't know about it you know what if I had a gun in this house it would be out in the trash dump pronto how did they not know about it if the school knew about it and another thing wendy patrick when you post photos and threats about blowing up the school that is what we call in the law a terroristic threat and that is a felony why was this kid just walking free making all these threats threats, Wendy. Yeah, one of the things, Nancy, you and I know from our careers is it is tricky when you talk about how to analyze things that are posted

online and distinguishing between free speech that is completely offensive and crime, threatening crime, something that's actionable, something that can be acted upon. You know, the problem, one of the problems, I should say, with cases like this is, first of all, we have to assume people saw what was being posted online because let's face it, that's why. Wait a minute. Well, wait, wait. Wendy, we just heard that from Limley that the school was already on alert if they saw the guy come on campus. So they knew. Right.

But that's only the first step. Secondly, they've got to analyze whether or not it's something they can go arrest somebody for. So it sounds like it's stalled with the first step people saw this they knew about it uh they knew that he was a threat and they actually worked administratively the question now is was there sufficient evidence and we're now seeing it we're going to be seeing more of it to actually decide well this is something we can charge criminally and then we'll be able to arrest him we can get restraining order so it seems like be able to arrest him. We can get a restraining order. So it seems like it stalled between steps.

Boy, it did it. And when I hear stall, that's the worst thing you want to hear with me is Michelle Dittmeier, who actually a teen girl who had to barricade herself to Michelle Dittmeier, also joining me, her friend Sarah Derby. Michelle, did you know this guy or know of him? I have seen him around school before, but he got expelled before I was in the school for a long amount of time. But everybody at the school would call him and just kind of knew he was creepy and psychotic. I mean. Mass killer Nicholas Cruz does not get the death penalty. To top it all off, to add insult to injury.

Now, in the last hours, Nicholas Cruz's lawyer investigated for flipping the bird in court. She should have been held in contempt immediately. How did it get to that? Why wasn't she held in contempt? Now, she's being investigated by the Florida Bar. I don't know what they're going to do with her. One father, Fred Guttenberg, the father of a 14-year-old victim, Jamie Guttenberg, says he will never, ever forgive the moment that attorney Curtis laughed with Cruz in court, laughing, likening her behavior to, quote, an immature punk child another parent of a victim accused cruz's defense team of quote losing their humanity toward the victims last month it's just it's so painful in court i mean i've been there so many times it. It's so painful what the victim's families are going through.

I know I went through it myself in court as the family of a loved one that had been murdered. You're raw. You're upset. You can't think straight. And to see the defense attorney shooting birds seemingly at the victim's family and then laughing about it like Beavis and Butthead. It's so painful in court. Listen. On the day of the medical examiner visits where they discussed Jamie, I need you all to know, because this gets back to the word endure, what we endure. Now, while I was sitting there,

I was having chest pains and shortness of breath. And do you want to know, I didn't say a word because I didn't want to hear you call to the judge because it happened in front of the jury and ask for a mistrial. And so I sat there with chest pains.

And the second the public, I'm sorry, the second the medical examiner finished talking about my daughter, my wife immediately got me out of the room. And I ended up with weeks of testing from a cardiologist. And thankfully, I am okay. I have a broken heart, but I am okay. You don't know me, but you tried to kill me. I will have a scar on my arm in the memory of you pointing your gun at me, ingrained in my brain forever. The Florida Supreme Court should look at the law that was changed in 2016 that allows the minority rule

in the case of a death sentence verdict. If killing 17, my innocent people, and wounding 17 more does not warrant the death penalty, then what possibly does? I hope your ever-breathing moment here on earth is miserable and you repent for your sins, Nicholas, and burn in hell. Christopher Brent Hickson was an extraordinary man. He was a father. He was a husband. He was a son, a brother, an uncle, a cousin, a a godfather and friend to many he was stolen from us by an unimaginable act that you planned and executed you stole him from us and you did not receive the justice that you deserved the evidence this jury heard and this court heard and these spectators heard is just beyond your worst nightmares. We understand that a math teacher, Jim Gard, who taught Cruz, says, quote,

we were told he was not allowed on campus with a backpack. There were problems with him threatening students. He was asked to leave campus. Apparently, he had been suspended. You know, other students claim, quote, I knew it was going to be him. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst joining us, you know, I've had so many victims say, I knew this was going to happen. I talked about it. We knew this was going to happen everybody knew bethany i find it very difficult to believe this guy was not already behind bars i don't care if he's just a teen

all of these school shooters in fact mass shooters in general always brag about it to somebody they write a letter they post online they have pictures of themselves on Instagram and Facebook, they predict their own crimes. So these do not come from out of the blue. It's very easy to tell who is going to become a mass shooter because they do not keep it to themselves. Even though often they are loners, they do share their thoughts. And so the idea that somebody just snaps or you know all of a sudden they just go crazy and grab a bunch of guns is not a very sound way to think about all of this they contemplate it unconsciously and consciously for months if not years well i'm not looking for anybody to blame that's not what i'm about i'm anybody to blame. That's not what I'm about. I'm trying to figure

out why this happened, what could have been done to prevent it so it won't happen again. And to me, they're all the signs. Vincent Hill, private investigator, joining me. I mean, online, line, this guy shared photos of him brutalizing animals. He literally had posted on Instagram pictures of animals he killed gruesomely. He physically assaulted other students.

And from what I'm understanding, Vincent, made threats on the school. I mean, when you tell a kid you can't come on the school with a backpack, it's because you think they've got a gun in it. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And I think Wendy touched on this. You have to question what you can make arrests for,

what you can investigate on social media, because people live vicariously through social media. But I think there's a much bigger issue that no one's touching on. Yes, the school was on notice. Yes, the school said he can't come on with the backpack but you're talking about a very large structure that holds about 3 200 people with two uh school resource officers that that is a lot of ground to cover a lot of bodies to watch to try to prevent one person from getting on to that school. So we need to start talking about how do we secure our schools better to prevent this?

Or if it does start to happen, how do we make it go away a lot faster than what we saw yesterday? And more quickly, with less lives taken, also with me in addition to Michelle Dittmeier, who had to barricade herself in the school as the shots rang out, is Sarah Derby, her friend.

Michelle, what was going through your mind as you're in there barricaded, knowing there's a shooter stalking the campus, opening fire right at that moment? My mind was blank. I just was thinking about all my family members. I was trying to not let my grandma in New York know, but the news reached there. I didn't want my family members to worry about me, even though they would. And honestly, that's all I was thinking about with all the people outside of that school that I might never see again. Can you even imagine the desperate parents of these students still in lockdown,

rushing to the scene to find out if your child is one that was shot dead? I can barely even put words to it. Sarah Derby, what is your recollection of what happened, dear? I was disgusted. I was driving home, and we got a call, and they said there's been a shooting at Stoneman, so I automatically get on the phone to call Michelle, because we'd been texting five minutes before any of this happened. We were in contact all day, and she didn't answer, and I was like, okay, maybe her phone's dead, because her phone's never charged. I was going through these things, and I called my other friend Samantha and she said no this is this is real this

is happening and my first instinct was truly like I started like head booking at home like I was like I have to get home I have to get home like this is I have to do something and it's just like this other feeling of like both like disgust and just like anger that like someone like i know multiple people i know this close have to deal with something that like you said her senior year is not going to be the same that's what i thought like now we're seeing you should tell someone that she survived a mass shooting which should never have happened Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 17 dead. When a teen boy opens fire with a semi-automatic rifle at a Parkland, Florida, high school.

14 others wounded. The teen boy, Nicholas Cruz, concealed himself in a crowd fleeing Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. He clearly had planned this, even wearing a gas mask to cover his face when he went in. Can you imagine your child sitting at school, looking up and seeing a man with a gas mask covering his face, wielding a semi-automatic weapon? He took Uber to campus. That's how we know how he got there. 17 dead, 14 wounded. This guy wielding an AR-15 semi-automatic. On YouTube, he says,

I'm going to be a professional school shooter. I'm going to be a professional school shooter. Insult heaped on injury. That's what we have here. Not only does Nicholas Cruz escape the death penalty after mass murder of children, his lawyer is shooting birds in court. Family members call it disgusting and also slammed her for being so chummy with the man who murdered high schoolers. Why? Because she is recorded on camera joking and laughing in court. These families dealing with the loss of their children and others

now have to have Nicholas Cruz's lawyer shoot a bird in court. Really? after hearing painful testimony and the graphic nature of that testimony nancy started on day one take a listen to this from our friends at wpbf prosecutors opened this trial by promising the jury they would show nicholas cruz planned this attack wanted to kill students quoting crews from a video cruise made three days before the massacre. Hello, my name is Nick. I'm going to be the next school shooter of 2018. The jury then heard from three witnesses. A teacher and two students all were in three different classrooms when Cruz opened fire. I heard what I described as just the loudest noise you could possibly imagine. We were just sitting, kind of like sitting ducks. We had no way to protect ourselves, no way to stand up for ourselves.

Eventually, the shooter started shooting through the window, and bullets were flying through. Almost instantly, I called 911, just out of instinct. They couldn't hear me over the sound of the gunshots. I looked over and two people were dead and multiple people were shot. But the most emotional part of the day came when prosecutors played two videos of the shooting. The most graphic parts where you hear gunshots and hear students screaming and calling for help. During that part, many family members were sobbing in the gallery.

A few had to walk out. Cruz sat with his head in his hands as he watched and listened to himself shoot 34 people, killing 17. Among other things that jurors heard was testimony about how Nicholas Cruz pulled the fire alarm to send students out into the hallway and his firing. David Katz, CEO of Global Security Group. What does that mean to you, David?

Well, you know, there's a lot of things that we just mentioned, too. That's one of the things going back to the same room multiple times that happened to Virginia Tech. So that's not uncommon. The bunch of things that that stand out. Number one, as a former student, he knew how to gain access to the building. Number two, he knew that by pulling the fire alarm, he knew exactly the response.

Number three, he knew that there is a protocol in place that probably he was able to exploit because of his knowledge of the procedures and able to gain access to potential victims before they could react. You know, there's a, there's a bunch of things that, that, I mean,

here in New York city, for example, the NYPD, the fire department, they've mandated an active shooter response in high rise buildings in, in a public assembly venues and hotels. In addition, there are school mandates and everything that we teach,

every bit of the curriculum is exactly diametrically opposed to what was done in this case. To John Limley, I'm reading about all the acts of heroism. One coach dies trying to save other people. One math teacher and miss shanti this one of fun known as miss V to her students when she heard a second fire alarm that day she knew something was wrong they had had a fire drill earlier that morning instead of letting her students out of algebra she made them all get down on the floor in the corner of the room, put paper over the windows so nobody could see in. She wouldn't even let the SWAT team in, John. They had to come in through the windows because she would not let them in. She didn't know

for sure. It was a SWAT team for real, John. Exactly. And another teacher, Scott Beigel, a geography teacher, was killed as he was trying to usher students back into his classroom when the shooting broke out. One of the students told CNN that he was shot outside the classroom door right after he locked all of the students in. It's stories like this that make all of this all the more heartbreaking. Killer Nicholas Cruz does not get the death penalty. Insult heaped on injury. That's what we have here. With evidence like what that jury heard, what spectators heard, what the court heard, how can a veteran defense attorney lawyer, Tamara Curtis, shoot a bird? How can they sit there and laugh?

As court is, it's just, it's just so callous, so disheartening to see a member of the bar carry on like this. It's so painful. The families of the victims of the Parkland shooting massacre enraged when the mass killer, Nicholas Cruz, does not get the death penalty. Take a listen to our friends at NBC. I thought that the devil did not exist until death put us in front in this path. All day, the pain poured out. You are a revolting entity. Parents, family members, survivors speaking without restrictions on time or subject directly to the man who killed their loved ones. I wish no peace for you. I wish nothing but pain. I am disappointed and disgusted with the verdict that was handed to you.

You do not deserve the best case scenario. The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history to reach trial ended without a death penalty verdict because there wasn't a unanimous decision, as Florida requires. My brother Chris, on February 14th, died a hero. You, however, you will die as nothing because you are nothing. Ultimately, those here left with one simple feeling, emptiness. I am broken. I am broken and I am broken. Some parents using the time to lambast the defense, which they say misrepresented the killer's lack of access to mental health care. This individual didn't fall off the grid. He was the grid.

He was getting every service that they offered. That totaled hundreds of hours of therapy. Salt poured in the wound. These families dealing with the loss of their children and others now have to have Nicholas Cruz's lawyer shoot a bird in court? Really? The defendant's action of seeming to throw a middle finger at the court had parents reacting, including Manuel Oliver, father of victim Joaquin Oliver. Four times.

You blew his head. His marvelous brain and ideas and dreams. You destroyed them. You shot him four times. You needed an AR-15 to do that because otherwise Joaquin would have beaten the shit out of you but you were coward enough and you can be coward

in this life hiding your actions and you can be cowards in this life, hiding your actions. The middle finger, like, apologizing for a middle finger. You need to learn how to do a middle finger, so you don't need to apologize to anyone. At this point, Oliver can be seen giving his own demonstration of flipping the bird. If this lawyer is not reprimanded or thrown out of the bar entirely, it will be a travesty.

At a moment like this, in these victims' families' lives, to see her shooting a bird and yucking it up in court with the killer is just beyond the pale. We wait. As justice unfolds, Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.