Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Perps Accused in Rape, Death of LSU Coed WALK FREE ON BOND

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

LSU student Madison Brooks is killed after being hit by a car. Brooks was standing in the road at the time, but why?  Police say Brooks left a Tigerland bar with four men. Two of the men, then allegedly rape the very inebriated 19-year-old. When Brooks cannot give the men her address, she is dropped off around 3 a.m. in a random neighborhood. That is when Brooks is hit by the car. That driver showed no signs or evidence of being impaired. The four men who left with Brooks have been arrested. They claim the sex was consensual, but hospital staff says Brooks' blood alcohol level was nearly 4 times the legal limit.   Kaivon Washington, 18, and an unidentified 17-year-old minor are charged with third-degree rape. Everette Lee, 28, and Casen Carver, 18, were charged with principal to third-degree rape, which means they were there when the incident occurred but did not take part in it.   Joining Nancy Grace today: Renee Rockwell - Criminal Defense Attorney; Facebook: "Renee.Rockwell" (Atlanta) Dr. Mindy B. Mechanic- Professor of Psychology (Emeritus) at California State University Fullerton, Forensic Psychologist Focusing on Trauma/victimization, Intimate Partner Violence, Sexual Assault and Stalking Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder:  Atlanta's Cold Case Investigative Research Institute; Twitter:@ColdCaseTips; Host: "Zone 7" Dr. Monte Miller - Director, Forensic DNA Experts LLC; Specialist in Sexual Assaults and Murder; Former Forensic Scientist for Texas Dept. of Public Safety State Crime Lab Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department; Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide;" Forensic Consultant  Jen Smith -  Chief Reporter at DailyMail.com; Twitter: @Jen_e_Smith See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Outrage. A teen girl, an LSU student, absolutely stunning with the world before her, is now dead. But was she raped before her death? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WAFB. An LSU student is reportedly on life support in the hospital after she was hit by a car while standing in the middle of Burbank Drive early this morning.

Deputies with the East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff's Office tell us the crash happened at around 3 on Burbank Drive near Pelican Lakes Parkway. LSU's Tiger TV says the student is sophomore Madison Brooks, who is a member of the Alpha Phi sorority. Deputies are still trying to figure out why Brooks was standing in the middle of the roadway before she was hit by a vehicle. We're told the driver showed no signs or evidence of being impaired. This investigation is ongoing.

If you get any new updates, we'll be sure to pass them along to you. Well, I can tell you why many people believe that she was standing in the middle of the street. Because she had just been dumped out of a car by a bunch of guys that had sex with her when she's practically unconscious. Now she's dead. She was on life support. Now she loses her life. How badly does one teen girl have to be treated before there are formal charges. I'm wondering if charges of felony murder may arise in addition to third-degree rape charges currently existing, because we all know that felony murder does not require intent to kill. In other words, if the law believes that this young girl was gang raped by four suspects ranging in age from 17 to 28, if they raped her when she is unconscious and drunk

and a death occurred during the commission of that and a perceived kidnapping, that is a textbook case of felony murder. Why did Maddie Brooks have to die? Take a listen to more from our friends at WAFB9. An LSU student has died after being hit by a car while standing in the middle of Burbank Drive. According to the university, sophomore student Madison Brooks died in the hospital. The East Baton Rouge Sheriff's Office tells us the crash happened around 3 a.m. on Burbank Drive

near Pelican Lakes Parkway. Brooks was standing in the roadway alone when she was hit by a vehicle. The investigation is ongoing at this time. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, but I want to go first to high-profile criminal defense

attorney joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, often known as the Queen of Dope. Now, I don't know exactly what that means. Renee Rockwell is joining us, and you can find her on Facebook at Renee.Rockwell, who also went to LSU as an undergrad before her law degree and launching her practice in multiple jurisdictions. And let me also remind everyone that the law in Louisiana is somewhat different. It is a hybrid of what the rest of the country has because it is a mixture of our jurisprudence brought here from Great Britain and the Napoleonic Code because, as we all know, it was controlled by the French for a long period of time. Renee Rockwell, before I launch into a discussion of the Napoleonic Code with you, let me just ask you, are you familiar with Burbank Street and or this bar where she allegedly had worked either serve, probably serving food?

It may have had another name then, but right now the bar is named Reggie and Burbank Street, where she was mowed down after the alleged sex attacks. Okay, Nancy. So what we're talking about, this is an LSU bar, but this is not a bar that's right next to campus. This is in Tiger Land. Tiger Land is where a number of kids live. My nephew lives out there. He knew this young lady. are bars that that turn over names i know this place i know these bars i know these kids i know about underage drinking over there fake id and and let's just talk about her blood alcohol content 0.319 nancy i know she's not on trial but can you say lawsuit at reggie's bar which in the last hours has lost its liquor license is it the liquor license he lost they lost or they shut down the

whole yeah they shut the whole place down but you know uh Renee I know you're um I almost said antics but let me just say your methods in the courtroom and you've won a lot of cases at jury trial. But when you say something like the victim's not on trial, but I know something inappropriate or something I don't want to hear, it's about to come out of your mouth. And I want to follow up on you said she's got 0.39 blood alcohol, but you know what? I don't mind that you said that because that supports my theory that anybody that and i'm putting this in air quotas for the use that can only hear my voice anybody that quote had sex at 0.39 could not give consent and if you cannot give consent to consensual sex, then it's rape. Case closed. Bam. Now, if that's to me, Nancy, I can tell you that I have read some of the transcripts about

these young men that have appeared before the judge, and some of them are taking the position that she was well enough and alert enough to consent. I will tell you that. Oh, I'm sure they are. Like every other rape defendant. They all say, number one, I've never seen her in my life. That didn't happen. And you say, well, there's video surveillance of you with her at the

bar. Oh, was that her? Yeah, that girl came and sat by me at the bar. Yeah, I guess I do know her face. And, sir, you were seen by three witnesses leaving the bar with her. Well, yeah. You know what? Now that you mention it, I was going to walk her to her car because I'm a gentleman.

And your DNA is found in and on her body. Was that that girl? That was totally consensual. Yeah, I know what's coming next. I know your playgroup. No, not only the DNA, not only the DNA, but there's some video I hear that there may have been a video of the sexual encounter. Just putting it out there. Did you just say sex encounter?

There may, may have been video of the, quote, sexual encounter. That's how they're calling it. Which, let me just go to Jen Smith before I just reach through the camera and grab Renee Rockwell. Jen Smith is joining me. Jen Smith is the chief reporter for DailyMail.com. Jen Smith, you guys were the first ones,

I believe, to report that Reggie's Bar has been closed down, had its liquor license suspended by Louisiana authorities. Hey, Louisiana, day late, dollar short, because this young girl, Maddie, is dead. Jen Smith, what am I hearing about a potential video of the Azranay Rockwell, a.k.a. the Queen of queen of dope calls it the sexual encounter yeah i mean it's a pretty disturbing detail but nancy this video is what these defendants claim will actually

exonerate them now renee pointed out that they're saying this was consensual as you rightly say many rape defendants are going to default to that when they face these charges. But what's unusual in this case is not only do they say that she gave consent and that she participated in the sex act, but they have a video of it, which they say will prove that she was able to give consent. Now, of course, this video could work in their favour or very much against it. It depends what it shows. Obviously, we've not seen it yet. It's something that many people, especially a jury, are going to insist on if this case moves forward. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jen Smith with me, chief reporter with DailyMail.com.

Jen, could you just outline for our viewers and listeners that are not familiar with Maddie's case, what we believe to have happened that night? Without me claiming that I believe it should be felony murder charges and without Ms. Rockwell claiming that it was all consensual and it was really nobody's fault but the victim's. Yeah, absolutely. So these are the facts as we know them. January 15th, Madison Brooks, a 19-year-old sophomore at LSU, goes to Reggie's bar in Tigerland.

She's been there many times before with her friends. We see her entering the bar on surveillance footage at around 10 p.m. Inside the bar, she meets four young men. Some of them, well, one of them at least, is under the age of 18. Uh-oh,mm-mm. Uh-oh, uh-oh. The unnamed minor, under 18. Whoopsie, Reggies.

Go ahead. Right. So over the next four hours, inside the bar, Maddie is drinking. These four young men are also drinking. Now, it gets to around 1.50 a.m. By this point, Maddie is drunk. She's been seen falling inside the bar, falling outside the bar, but she and these four men decide to leave the bar. They walk to a vehicle that's being driven by Cason Carver. He is one of these co-defendants.

They leave Reggie's, they drive a short distance where they pull over. Now over the course of the next hour, let's say we don't have the exact timeline yet, Maddie, we know from the interviews that these men gave, is either raped or has consensual sex with two of these young men. They take turns, One gets out of the vehicle while the other has sex with her or rates her. Then they swap over. Now, while this happens, Cason Carver, the driver, and the oldest defendant, his name is Everett Lee, they're in the two front seats of this vehicle. Now, eventually, at 2.50 a.m. approximately. The driver, Cason, tells, well, this is according to his interview with police,

he says, we've got to cut this out. It's time to go. I'm taking her home. Maddie can't remember her address, again, according to these young men. She insists on getting out of the car. That's what they say. So they drop her off on a subsection.

She gets out of the vehicle, and she is then hit by a different car and she later dies in the hospital those are the facts as we have them right now and the fact obviously why we're all here is that these four men have been charged in this case two of them with third degree rape the other, the two who were in the front seat of the vehicle, they have been charged with principal to third degree rape, which means that they were present for the alleged crime, but they did nothing to stop it. The four men are in custody now. They have had their bonds set the highest at $150,000. The lesser crimes, the bond has been set at $75,000. And we are waiting for them to go before a judge. But the question is, as you pointed out at the

top of the show, was Madison Brooks raped before she died? And did any of these events that led up to her death cause it? Nancy, I can't take it anymore. I got to jump in. You know, Cheryl McCollum, I was about to say before I go to Cheryl McCollum, I just want to pose a question to Renee Rockwell. who was seen falling down drunk in the bar leaves with four guys she reportedly met in the bar reminds me so much of Jorn Vandersloot gets in the car and that she willingly consents to pulling a train in other words having sex with not one but two guys in the backseat of a car while two guys are up front watching and videoing her, including, and correct me if I'm wrong, Jen Smith, anal sex. That would be your defense, Renee Rockwell? I am telling you where these

defense attorneys are going, Nancy. just telling you where they're going. That one of them has already said, well, we, you know, of course she consented and the other ones are going to provide video to say that she participated. Uh-huh. Okay. Sharon McCollum is joining me now, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute. And Renee, I don't want to kill the messenger, which is you. Cheryl McCollum is joining me now, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute.

And Renee, I don't want to kill the messenger, which is you. And I guess Cheryl McCollum at ColdCaseCrimes.org and star of a new hit podcast, Zone 7, which I have yet to be invited to. But that's a whole other can of worms. Cheryl McCollum, you heard what Renee Rockwell said. And I guess it's better to know what the defense is going to be. Of course, you need to know what the other side is going to do so you can defeat it before they even get a chance to bring it up in front of the jury. So, okay, Cheryl McCollum, help me out. Bottom line, she could not walk. She could not speak clearly.

She had to be helped to the car. She was that intoxicated. She could not consent, period. Number two, the autopsy is going to show injury consistent with sexual assault. And what do you mean by that? She's going to have injury to the vaginal area, possibly the anal area. There could be tearing, there could be abrasions, there could be lacerations. She could have bruising from fingertips where she was being held in position. Again, the doctor notated, the pathologist notated that she had injury consistent with

sexual assault. That is going to be something that they're not going to be able to overcome. And I also want to point out that we had a case in South Georgia where somebody thought videotaping a murder was going to absolve him. It actually helped solidify the fact that a young man jogging near Jekyll Island was murdered. So the videotape, I do not believe, is going to help them. I believe it's going to show a girl that is clearly too intoxicated to know what she is even doing in that car, much less consenting to something consensual.

Well, I guess if bruises are found on her body where she could have been held down or there was vaginal or anal tearing, the next defense, I might even give this idea to Renee because she's probably already had it, will be the Robert Chambers preppy killer defense. Oh, we had rough sex.

That was consensual too. And can you believe somebody actually believes that? Nancy, this is Doc. You know, we can tell through an autopsy. Is this Dr. Michelle Dupree? Yes, it is. Dr. Michelle Dupree, you are the next person I'm going to. Dr. Michelle Dupree, let me do the honor

of introducing you. In addition to Jen Smith, Cheryl McCollum and Renee Rockwell, joining me Dr. Mindy B. Mechanic, Professor of Psychology, California State. Dr. Mindy B., mechanic, professor of psychology, California State, Dr. Monty Miller, expert in forensic DNA at ForensicDNAExperts.com, and Dr. Michelle Dupree, pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Okay, Dr. Dupree, weigh in. Okay, so during the autopsy, we can generally tell if it was rough sex or sex by consent

or if it was actually forced, right? And the reason we tell, it is the injuries, but it's the location of the injuries that is the most important. And, you know, when we look at the clock of a face, injuries at six o'clock typically are those of forced rape. And those others are, could be, you know, consensual rough sex. Why is that? It's because anatomically, our bodies, the way that they're shaped and the way that we will struggle, if you will, when it is forced, right? That is the position that the injuries typically occur. Understood. I'm trying to figure out what we really know about the autopsy

report by the medical examiner. Jen Smith joining me, DailyMail.com chief reporter. What do we know? Well, we know not a huge amount. We only know what's in the arrest affidavit and i'll read from it right now nancy for the benefit of your readers and your listeners for all of our readers and listeners it says during the autopsy the pathologist reported that the victim had injuries consistent with previous sexual assault anally the other thing that's really interesting that came as a result of the autopsy was that she tested positive as well for THC. Now, that's one of the most intoxicating elements of cannabis. So not only had Maddie been drinking excessively, she also had cannabis in her system, this decision compromising drug, which I think is another really important detail.

Take a listen to our cut for our friends from WAFB. I'm told deputies have known about this rape angle to the case almost from the start and have been conducting multiple interviews before making the arrest that happened late today. Less than one day after a vigil was held to honor the memory of LSU sophomore Madison Brooks at the LSU Lakes, deputies have arrested four men who they say were seen leaving with Madison Brooks in a vehicle from Reggie's Bar in Tigerland. Investigators believe two of the men raped Madison Brooks before they dropped her off near that scene on Burbank Drive near Pelican Lakes Parkway at around three in the morning, where she was later hit by a car driven by a rideshare driver. This would not be

the first time an alleged rapist got off Scott gets off Scott free because the victim may have been intoxicated. Take a listen to our cut 19. I'm talking about the infamous Brock Turner case. These are our friends from NBC. With a hard push of the jailhouse door, former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner was met by a crush of cameras. He spent only 90 days in jail for sexual assault. Are you going to apologize, bro? NBC News was given exclusive access to evidence in Turner's case file. Pictures show him with a torn shirt hours after he was tackled by students who saw him on top of an unconscious female behind a dumpster on Stanford's campus. Interrogation

tapes taken after his arrest showed a calm Turner responding to questions from a detective saying, my intentions were not to try and rape a girl without her consent. I was just trying to hook up with a girl. When pressing Turner about the victim, the detective asks, If you saw her again, would you recognize her? Turner responds, Probably not. Mark Turner's rape victim was assaulted outside of a fraternity house by the dumpster on the ground in the dirt in the pine straw. And the rape was only stopped when some other college guys walked by and saw what was happening and the defense there was consent. To Dr. Mindy B. Mechanic joining us,

Professor of Psychology Emeritus, California State University, Fullerton. You know, Dr. Mindy Mechanic, it seems as if so many rapists get off scot-free or a slap on the wrist if the rape victim has been drinking. What is that phenomena? Well, I think it also depends on whether or not there's any corroborating evidence. In this case, at least, we do have a BAC, but oftentimes in these cases, there is no BAC. A victim hasn't gone to the hospital right away, and you may or may not have other people that can provide statements about her level of intoxication, at least behaviorally. In this case, you have people saying, excuse me, that they witnessed her falling down drunk. They witnessed her slurring her speech. So it's helpful to be able to say

we've got at least some behavioral evidence and we've got the BAC to be able to, you know, estimate what her level of impairment might have been. You know, at a point, was it 0.319 0.32 that's a pretty significant BAC where a person's ability to engage in deliberation decision making all of that is significantly impaired my question was why are male rapists let off the hook or get a light sentence when the rape victim has been drinking? That is the question. Yeah, so well, it first goes to conviction, right? So that's why I was talking about the behavioral stuff. And if you don't have that, it's harder to make a conviction.

And then if there is a conviction to sentencing, I don't know in terms of data, like the Brock Turner situation, was that an anomaly in terms of sentencing? That certainly got all our attention. No, it was not an anomaly at all. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut 20. In this case, I'm talking about another rapist who gets a slap on the wrist, Bowen Turner. Listen to our friends at WCSC. The father of Dallas Stoller says in 2018 his daughter was the president of her senior class. Smart and outgoing. A friend to almost everyone she met. That was just her. She had a huge heart. One night Dallas came home from a party intoxicated, distraught, and covered in these bruises saying she had been sexually assaulted. It was very upsetting,

obviously, and very disheartening. And very, I like to use the word tragic once we found out who the alleged individual was. Dallas's family says they later pressed charges against her classmate, 16-year-old Bowen Turner. Public records show he was arrested and charged with first-degree criminal sexual conduct in Bamberg County in January of 2019. Turner was released on bond but was required to wear a GPS monitor. A few months later, a judge allowed him to remove it. Released on bond with an ankle monitor that he was then allowed to remove. But that's not the end of Bowen Turner and the rape of Dallas Stoller.

Take a listen to our cut 21. But less than five months after that first arrest, while he was still out on bond, court documents show Turner was arrested again. He was slapped with that same charge, first degree criminal sexual conduct. An affidavit reveals the arrest also stems from a party, this time in Orangeburg County. The victim was not named because she was a minor at the time, but Chloe Best says she was the one sexually assaulted by Turner in June of 2019 when she was 16. I just remember being like so petrified, like I was frozen.

I honestly just remember sitting there looking at the stars, just like praying for it to be done. Praying for it to be done. Light sentences out on bond, no ankle monitor, just another. I've got stacks of examples where the woman, the girl, teen victim has been drinking. It's like nothing happened to dr monty miller director on forensic dna experts specializing in sex assaults and murders you can find dr miller at forensic dna experts.com worked for a long time as a forensic scientist for the te Department of Public Safety. Dr. Miller, I have great, great respect for all the scientists at every state crime lab facility. You have a crush of work, too many cases to even get to, and you learn the hard way. You learn with a crush of cases about everything in the book, the book that could be thrown at you. It's like learning in the trenches.

Dr. Monty Miller, how do we know that there were just two alleged rapists, not four? And how do you differentiate between the victim and potentially two perpetrators' DNA? Well, as long as we have everybody's DNA, they'll be able to match it up to whatever's found. You know, maybe one of them raped her vaginally and one of them raped her anally. Okay, hold on right there just a second. Dr. Miller, again, I don't want to kill the messenger, but has anybody seen this girl, Maddie Brooks? She just, I mean, I've seen her in a cheerleading outfit. I've seen her dressed up for some kind of a shindig with her mom. I've seen pictures of her, you know, at school.

And she is so precious and so full of life. And to hear it thrown around, well, maybe one raped her vaginally, maybe one raped her anally, it just struck me. We are talking about a young girl. Yeah. Renee, Cheryl, this girl is only four years older than Lucy. I know, Nancy. Can I say one thing? Can I stop you?

Well, you're going to stop me. You'll just mute my mic. Well, Nancy. Can I say one thing? Can I stop you? Well, you're going to stop me. You'll just mute my mic. Well, yeah. But I want to throw something in because this is what happens. She's beautiful. She's smart. She's sweet. And you know what? She's dead. And let me tell you what the difference makes here. A lot of rape cases, Nancy, you get a slap on the wrist

because the victim does not want to participate. Not in this case, because she's not with us any longer. So they're going to go full force against these guys. Dr. Monty Miller, I'm sorry, I veered off when I was thinking about my little girl. No, it's awful. And we should stop to think about it. We should stop to think about it. Dr. Miller, how are we going to do this thing with the DNA? Well, they'll have everybody's DNA, which, you know, everybody has their known DNA,

which they'll be able to take, you know, from their blood or their mouth. And so comparing it will be a lot easier in a case like this, where the suspects are known rather than trying to find the suspects. So everybody's DNA is so unique. Even if it's mixed together or it's separate, the statistics will be so high that they'll be able to tell who raped her and where because the bodily processes will have stopped when she died. So it's not like this went on for, you know, three days before she notified the police or anything like that. They got her body.

They got it shortly after all of this happened. They did an autopsy. So they'll collect samples shortly afterwards. She hasn't taken a shower or any of those other things that people oftentimes do. So the evidence will still be there. They'll be able to compare it to all of the individuals, and they'll be able to verify probably the things that we see on that tape. Well, earlier, Jen Smith, joining me, DailyMail.com chief reporter, I believe it was Renee, could have been Cheryl, mentioned there's going to be a big fat lawsuit against Reggie's Bar,

as it's currently named, because they have a long history of crimes, attacks, incidents in the bar and in the parking lot. Is that true? Yeah, it is true, Nancy. Like you pointed out, there is a disturbing history of incidents in this bar. As you mentioned before, someone was once stabbed behind the bar. We've heard reports of someone else being shot in this bar. And let me just talk about the bar's social media presence. We've seen pretty horrifying videos of just what goes on in this bar. We're talking about kids jumping behind the bar, being thrown behind the bar, drinking straight from the bottle. It's clear that no one was really following the rules in there. Now, when it comes to criminal culpability or even civil culpability,

that might be a different matter. We have heard from an attorney representing the bar. They've now lost their liquor license. This attorney says that the bar owner, who's not yet been named, I think it'll only be a matter of time before they are, but they are cooperating with the investigation. You know, there are claims that the, as some of our guests

like to call it, sex encounter was consensual, but I don't think that's going to work. Take a listen to our cut six, our friends from WAFB, and this is why. Arrest documents reveal that Brooks allegedly consented, but that Carver says he personally thought she was too drunk to know what she was doing. Third degree rape usually involves a case where a person is too intoxicated to consent. LSU's President William Tate released a statement saying in part, quote, By all accounts, she was an amazing young woman with limitless potential. She should not have been taken from us in this way. What happened to her was evil, and our legal system will parcel out justice.

So what do you do with that, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney? You've got one of the defendants, 18-year-old Kacen Carver, stating that the victim was too intoxicated to consent. Carver says he personally thought she was too drunk to know what she was doing. For Pete's sake, she was so drunk, she didn't even know her home address. At the end of the day, Nancy, this is what happened. You have four defendants, and somebody's going to make a deal and testify. Maybe three against one. Who knows?

But you know how it goes. There's not going to be a trial against all four young men. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. If I was trying the case, which I'm sure that prosecutor doesn't want to hear about, I would put them all on trial because I've done it both ways. Take a plea with a

few in exchange for testimony against the main bad actors. No, I've decided best way to go, put them all in the same pot and let them stew together. And then we'll see what happens once they get on the stand. But yeah, if it does work out the way that you said, I could see Everett Lee, the 28-year-old, and the 17-year-old unnamed minor turning state's evidence because the others... Wait, hold on. Let me get these charges straight. The 17-year-old minor is charged with rape and Lee is charged with accomplice. Carver is charged with accomplice. Carver is charged with accomplice.

I could see Carver and Lee, who are charged with accomplice, turning state's evidence against the two that are charged with the actual rape. Is that what you're saying you think is going to happen, Renee Rockwell? Exactly. Happens all the time, Nancy. And the defense attorneys are going to go to the prosecutor and say, hey, look, please don't put me through this. I'm willing to give you A, B, and C.

Another issue is how they got to the video. Was the video procured legally? Did they get into the phone without a search warrant? Those are issues that will be explored also. I think one of the defendants handed it over thinking it would exonerate them. Is that right, Jen Smith? Yeah, that's correct. The attorneys for at least two of the defendants. We don't know which yet, but it's definitely not Case and Carver.

So the attorney representing likely Kayvon Washington and maybe his uncle Everett Lee, he's claiming that this video will prove that Maddie, not only was she able to give consent, but did so verbally. Yeah, you know, the Constitution protects you from the state violating your rights or looking at your phone videos without consent. It does not protect you from

your idgit co-defendant that hands it over and gets you in hot water. Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Jump in, Cheryl. There are layers to this thing. The first thing, we have a video that i think is going to be a money tree second we have injury to this victim indicative of sexual assault and third they just dump her at three o'clock in

the morning in some random subdivision so again you've got four people and this crime started long before they left that bar you've got an adult that takes three minors into a bar where they're drinking that adult allows the youngest to walk the victim out hugging her supporting her getting her in the car he sits while two people sexually assault her. His own words say, we have to stop this. Stop what? That doesn't sound like you think it's consensual. So I'm just telling you, the layers of this thing, when it started, how they all got together, we're looking at pre and post behavior. What law enforcement is going to do is look at the video, text messages, and calls between these folks, plus their social media, the days before, during the crime, and after. Nancy, the driver has to worry about the liability of letting her out in an intoxicated.

I tell you what, I'd be a lot less worried about them taking my bank account than I would be about spending the next 20 behind bars on accomplice to rape and potential felony murder. You know, speaking of felony murder, I think this is entirely an appropriate case for a felony murder charge because if this girl was raped and she was moved even one inch against her will, one inch or less, there is no degree of exportation, which is movement under the law, required for a kidnapping charge. If she did not want to be raped, and they put her in the back seat and wouldn't let her out. That is a felony kidnap. And if a death occurred during a felony, that is a felony murder, Renee Rockwell. It is, Nancy, but the point I was trying to make is...

Oh, I bet you were. Whether or not the driver gets out of the race, he's still responsible for letting an intoxicated girl out of the car. That's what I was talking about. He had the last chance to save her life. And Dr. Michelle Dupree, tell me again in a nutshell, how can you look at the body and tell me if this was a rape or a consensual sex encounter? Nancy, we look at the injuries and we look at the location of those injuries. And we know just anatomically when there is a struggle, those injuries are going to appear in certain places, particularly at the six o'clock position of the point of entry. And so that's one

of the ways we tell. We also look for bruising on the inside of the thighs and we look for any type of defense wounds. And Dr. Monty Miller, ForensicDNAExperts.com, you're telling me we can separate the DNA and determine how many people had sex slash raped her that night, correct? Well, we can't always separate the DNA, but we can compare them. Even though we combine the DNA, it's just so unlikely because we can take her DNA and separate that out.

You know, if it came directly from her body, we can say, okay, that DNA we know came from her and we can say what's foreign to her here. And statistically we can determine if there's one extra person, we can tell who it is. If it's two people, we can tell that, you know, it's almost certain to be these two people. And under the circumstances, nobody would believe that it wasn't. Jen Smith, DailyMail.com. What is next for these four? Well, we're going to have to watch as they move through the court process.

Like you pointed out, it's very possible that at least two of them might try and cut a deal to save their own skin. And we have this very problematic statement by Kaysen Carver, the driver. He states in very clear terms that he did not think she was able to consent. So it's a court process. We are still waiting to hear from Maddie's family. That obviously is going to be a huge moment. And I think they should be heard from. We should hear what they want to happen in this case. And, you know, personally, I'd like to hear from the families of these young men, too. What do they have to say about this? Well, I can tell you what they're going to say.

They're going to say, my boy would never do that. And I've got a pretty good idea what Maddie's family is going to say, but I'll let them speak for themselves. I can tell you one thing that I think is going to happen, and that is this 17-year-old unnamed minor is not going to remain unnamed for long because he is old enough to be bound over to felony superior court and treated as an adult. Rape is one of the seven deadly sins, including accomplice two. That means he will be treated as an adult. Why that hasn't already happened, don't know. I assume the Napoleonic Code has something to do with it. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

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