Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Perps Charged in LSU Coed RAPE ATTACK VICTIM'S REPUTATION?

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Attorneys representing two of the accused in LSU student Madison Brook rape are asking a court to give them access to Brooks' phone data for the 72 hours preceding the alleged attack.  They claim the defense is entitled to find out if someone other than the defendants caused Brooks' injuries. The intent is to identify whether Brooks could have had sex with someone other than the defendants in the hours before the alleged rape. LSU student Madison Brooks was killed after being hit by a car. Brooks was standing in the road at the time. Police say Brooks left a Tigerland bar with four men and is then allegedly raped in the car.  When the inebriated Brooks cannot give the men her address, she is dropped off around 3 a.m. in a random neighborhood. That is when Brooks was hit by the car.    Kaivon Washington, 18, and an unidentified 17-year-old minor are charged with third-degree rape. Everette Lee, 28, and Casen Carver, 18, were charged with principal to third-degree rape, which means they were there when the incident occurred but did not take part in it.   Joining Nancy Grace Today:- Jarrett Ferentino - Homicide Prosecutor in Pennsylvania; Host: “True Crime Boss” Podcast; Facebook & Instagram: Jarrett Ferentino   Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice   Bill Hernandez - California Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault Detective    Dr. Michelle Dupre – Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department Rachel D. Fischer  – Registered Nurse; Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE); Expert Witness, Private Investigator, and Author: “Taking Back the Pen;” Forensic Nursing Consulting and Education LLC Toby Wolson – Forensic Consultant Specializing in DNA, Serology, and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis Kiran Chawla -  Emmy & Murrow Award-winning Investigative Reporter: "Unfiltered with Kiran;" Facebook & YouTube: Unfiltered with Kiran/ Twitter: @Kiran_Chawla23, TikTok: @unfilteredkiran  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young girl is dead. Her life before her doing great in college, loving life, Maddie Brooks is dead. Her mother will never have her back. But not only is Maddie dead, she was raped by one person, for sure, two people, for sure, maybe more, just before her death.

Yet now, believe it or not, the rape defendants are actually complaining about how they are treated. Yeah, that's happening in our great country. That is happening. The woman, the young college girl is dead. She's been raped by we're not really sure how many people before she's dead. And they're complaining about how they feel. This while their defense lawyers go on a fishing expedition trying desperately to get Maddie's cell phone data because they want to try and argue that, oh, someone else must

have raped her, someone else must have anally sodomized her, not our clients. Yeah, that's why they want her cell phone. They want to show she had another boyfriend or that maybe she's had sex before. Well, really? You know what? It's enough to make you take your daughter and go hide her under the bed. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WAFB. The defense, us, asked for the last 72 hours of Madison Brooks' cell phone data. In the coroner's autopsy of Brooks, he mentioned signs of anal trauma. Carver's attorney says it's their right to get to know the origin of that injury. We know from other things that my client certainly did not cause any injury to Madison Brooks. And so we are entitled then to find out if someone other than the defendants caused this injury. Well, correct me if I'm totally wrong to Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective with the

Lexington County Sheriff's Department. She is actually the author. She wrote the book on Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She shot to the forefront of our nation's consciousness during the Alex Murdoch trial. She has written Money, Mischief, and Murder, the Murdoch Saga. Dr. Dupree, as much as I'd love to go on and on and on about your three-page resume, if they want to know if somebody else raped Maddie, can't they tell from the DNA? If there's nobody else's DNA there, then there was nobody else. Ridiculous. Dr. Dupree, have you seen rape victims on the stand get totally eviscerated? Are you on the birth control pill?

Do you have a boyfriend? Were you a virgin before your rape? And the defense attorney puts it in quotas. You know what? They need to be run out of town on a rail, torn and feathered. I have, Nancy, and it's terrible the way that a rape victim is treated. Absolutely. No wonder it is hard sometimes to get people to testify. And we can tell, you know, they oftentimes say, well, it was consensual. We can tell whether it was by the

injuries to that person. We can tell whether it was consensual or not. And this sounds like a very horrible situation. And these defendants are absolutely crazy trying to think that they're going to blame it on somebody else. With me right now, Karen Chawla, Emmy and Murrow Award-winning investigative reporter. You can find him on Facebook and YouTube, Unfiltered with Karen. Thank you for being with us, Karen. Karen, let me understand this. So the defense attorneys, and oh yes, I would try all the defendants together. The defense attorneys want a jury to believe that this young girl, Maddie. Consensually had vaginal and anal sex in the backseat of their car with multiple of the defendants. While they videoed it.

Am I supposed to believe that's what she wanted? According to the defense. I think that's exactly what they want you to believe. That's what they're saying, that she was absolutely in control of saying yes to the sex and that it was consensual sex. And it all goes back to law enforcement saying that actually her blood alcohol content came back at point three one nine. Now, in the beginning, I myself kept saying, OK, that's four times over the legal limit. But you have to remember, she was underage. So the legal limit for anyone underage is point zero two. Actually, she was 16 times over the legal limit.

So for someone that age at 16 times over the limit, law enforcement has also said there's no possible way that she could have consented to it, making it rape. Isn't that true? Jarrett Fiorentino, homicide prosecutor, Pennsylvania. You can find him at JarrettFiorentino.com, host of True Crime Boss podcast. Again, I don't have time to read all you. You're all fantastic and wonderful. That's why we begged you on. I don't have time to read your full resume.

Look him up, Jarrett Farentino. Jarrett, there's no way this little girl consented to have sex in the backseat of a car while somebody's videoing and laughing and she's saying no and she's drunk and they find, I believe it's anal tears and bruising, and they find the defendant's DNA on her person. I mean, is it that hard for you to believe, Ferentino, that the perps withdrew and then ejaculated? I mean, there's really no nice way to explain that, but is that so hard for anybody to believe? Because I find it very easy to believe. Just looking at the numbers here, Nancy, this is what I'd call rape per se. 16 times the legal limit. No, we do not use Latin phrases on crime stories. I love Jarrett Farentino. I love to get on a packed elevator. And of course, there might be one or two girards

on there. And lawyers are on there and they start spouting out Latin terms they learned in law school that they, I mean, love it. But please, no per se, no res ipsa loquitur, nothing. Go ahead. You got it. So just looking at these numbers, Nancy, they're staggering. This is clearly someone who is in no position to consent to anything, let alone sexual behavior, with four individuals in a vehicle. If that number isn't staggering enough, it's how she was essentially dumped on the side of the road after what they're claiming was a consensual ride. In the middle of the night, in the rain, heavy traffic flying by. They put her out of the car and bam, she gets run over and dies after she gets raped. That's what the state says. That's not how someone who was part of a consensual sexual escapade is treated.

That's how a victim is re-victimized and thrown out like garbage. And that's what they did. Bill Hernandez joining me, domestic violence and sex assault detective in California. Bill, every time I start talking about Maddie's case, I get so mad I could chew a nail in half. Her mother lost her best friend that day. Her mother is being so strong and trying to get through this. But it seems like every time I turn around, there's another attack on Maddie. That's what this is. She's dead. She can't defend herself.

But you know what? We can defend her. Do you ever get tired of the victim getting blamed? I mean, you see it every day, Bill Hernandez. I do. I see it all the time. And it's so frustrating. And to walk a victim through something like that and to try to prepare them when they're living, it is so difficult to let them know, hey, this is what's going to happen.

And it's so embarrassing for them because their history gets attacked. They get vilified. They get embarrassed. And it's horrifying. You know, the other issue here is there is something called the rape shield law. I know a lot about it. In the state of Georgia, I remember that was one of two years that I worked with the Georgia Assembly, and I learned a lot about politics doing that.

But we were in a committee meeting, and we actually went out in the hall. I can't take much credit for it, but I can take a little credit for it. The guy who helped hire me in the district attorney's office, great, fantastic appellate lawyer, worked on the Wayne Williams trial, Joe Drolet. He said, we've got to do this. We've got to do it fast. We wrote the rape shield law. He did most of it. I threw in a little bit. And that is the rape shield law in the state of Georgia today. And I'm so proud that I had even a tiny part of that. What is the rape shield law? It's been enacted in practically every jurisdiction that when you have a sex attack victim,

their prior sex history, if there is any, cannot be brought in to evidence unless it is proven in a motion in limine, which means very simply, I'm explaining it in regular English, Faradino. It's a motion heard before trial, typically always outside the presence of the jury, where you try to get something in or you try to stop something before it happens. So the defense would approach the judge and say, hey, I want to get in evidence that she had sex with somebody else just three minutes before the alleged rape. Now see, that seems like it could be an issue, right? But here nobody else's DNA was found. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Back to our very special guest, Emmy and Murrow Award winning investigative reporter Kieran Chawla. Let's talk about what we know of the autopsy report. So the autopsy did reveal that she had injury, I guess, downstairs, for lack of a better word. OK, we don't do that. We use the actual words such as vagina, penis, anus. Hold on. I will give you a little. Actually, they say the same thing. Take a listen to Hour Cut 50 from WBRZ.

This report produced by the State Police Crime Lab. It's the DNA test conducted on Brooks after she died in January. That DNA test was finished 20 days after four men were arrested on rape charges. The DNA test examined her front and back private areas and found none of the suspect's DNA inside. Furthermore, a test of the area outside her genitals did detect Kayvon Washington's DNA, but excluded Everett Lee, Kaysen Carver, and Desmond Carter, who were also charged with rape. So Kayvon Washington's DNA is found outside her genitals. So it's going to be argued to the jury that he withdrew from her body and then ejaculated. That's what's going to happen right there.

And he can't get away from that. The other three, in my mind, Kieran, have the issue of a little video that was taken in the car. What's on the video? Well, it depends on who you talk to. Madison's mom says that on this video, you clearly see her daughter saying, get off of me, get off of me, get off of me. Isn't it true that even that night, one of the guys didn't want anything to do with the rape going down in the backseat? Yes. The driver actually,

Cason Carver actually did not want to be there. But then on the flip side, he's also the one who recorded it. How do you know he didn't want to be there? Well, that's what was in the reports. The initial reports when they were all arrested were very detailed. And I remember covering that he did not want to be there and he didn't want to use his vehicle. But then he also one of the main reasons that the district attorney actually upped his charge to first degree principal to first degree is because he did allow that and he didn't leave. According to reports, Maddie Brooks, his rape suspect, recorded

a very disturbing selfie video from the front seat of the car before the Louisiana co-ed was killed saying, quote, these guys are crazy, quote, they finna rape her. Joining me right now, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, TV and radio trauma expert. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. These guys are crazy. They're about to rape her. It's his car. He's videoing it. That makes him a party to it. They're all a party to this. He's definitely a party to it. He said he felt uncomfortable. He hated it, but he didn't stop it. And he videoed it and he knew what was happening. And actually, supposedly, allegedly, you can see in the video that you can see her legs, you could see one of them on top of her.

And despite very loud music, you can hear her say, get off me. You know, another issue here is, of course, Jarrett Fiorentino. Hold on, Rachel Fisher and Toby Wilson. Jarrett Fiorentino, the fact that you don't stop a crime is not actionable in our jurisprudence system. You don't have a duty to be a good Samaritan. You may be a POC for not helping, but it's not actionable. You can't be prosecuted for not helping or saving a crime victim. If you have a fiduciary duty, like you are the parent or the guardian or the chaperone on a trip, you have taken on a responsibility. There was no fiduciary duty to help here. However, if you aid in a bet, you let your car be used for a gang rape.

If that's what happened here, and according to the video and the state, it is. We'll see if that's proven in court. If you let your car be used, you video it. You egg it on in any way. That makes you part of it. Absolutely, Nancy. This was a conspiracy he was involved in. Him driving that car, which was essentially the crime scene, he set the table, he provided the location for this to happen. His videoing and his encouraging of this, he could regret all he wants when this is over. I'm sure he could say now in hindsight, I didn't want to be there,

but he could have driven her somewhere to safety. He could have tried to intervene. He's in trouble because of the affirmative acts he committed, which is he parked the car. He drove around and allowed for this to happen. He put her out of the car. And it was all his scene of the crime, and he was in control. So he's responsible for all of the acts of the conspiracy, essentially. Joining me right now, Rachel D. Fisher, forensic nurse expert. She is a sane sex assault nurse examiner. She's a private investigator. She's author of Taking Back the Pen. She is a forensic nursing consulting and education expert. You can find her at legalrnconsult.org. Rachel Fisher, I know you have studied this case and know it like the back of your hand.

What do you make of what we have learned about the evidence taken from Maddie Brooks' body? Unfortunately, the evidence was taken while she was deceased, right? So the losing of the coroner can do the sexual assault exam. And so you're working with a dead body. So the crime scene is her body and the evidence is her voice. And when you take swabs inside of her vagina, inside the anus, you can see the injury. So she has injuries that are known, acute injuries,

which means they happened recently. They're not old, they're acute. And then the evidence, that doesn't lie. That's the crime scene. That's her body. And the evidence and the swab, that's her voice. And that's what we have to work on. I want to talk to you about your characterization of her injuries as being acute. Could you explain that in more detail so us lay people can understand? So the defense,

what they like to say is you can't say when the injuries got there. And when a coroner looks at a body and says, well, there's a tear or there's a bleeding tear or there's bruising, you can't age bruises, but you can say that it's present. And she obviously can't say whether it's tender or not, but we can say it is there. There is a tear. It's not healed. If it's a healed tear scabbed over, then you can say, OK, it was prior. But these are acute, meaning this just happened. And it's consistent with the history that we know of her being intoxicated, the blood alcohol level that was drawn. This is a drug facilitated sexual assault. There being marijuana and alcohol in her system, you can't consent whatsoever. Whether you're underage or not, she can't consent. And

so the toxicology kit, the rape kit was done. And that is her voice. That's the evidence that we have from her dead body is that this happened. These are the samples of DNA. These are the injuries that were caused after she was seen stumbling out of a bar and intoxicated. This is our evidence. This is true. Nancy. Yeah, jump in. So Nancy, also, in addition to what she just said, we can tell that this was non-consensual by the location of the injuries. For example, tears at the six o'clock position in the vaginal area means that it was trauma because when it is

consensual, that doesn't happen. That's not the same location. And so not just by looking at the injuries to tell that they are acute or most recent, we can tell by the position where they are that it was not consensual. You know, another issue to Karen Cholla joining us. You can find Karen at unfilteredwithkaren.com. Big presence on Facebook and YouTube. Karen, again, thank you for being with us. Karen, I understand that an abrasion, which is a cut, and bruising on her backside, I'm using their language, not mine, prompted a forensic pathologist to note it was highly suspicious. A separate lab report finds male DNA, but on her body. Is that correct? I believe so, that is correct. Guys, take a listen to our friends at WAFB.

The state pushed back, arguing they did not have a right to her cell phone data or her sexual history. The judge, however, ruled in favor of Carver. They made a plethora of arguments. The judge denied all of their arguments and ruled in our favor today. Carver is not the only one asking for Brooks's cell phone data. Desmond Carter, who was 17 at the time and was charged with first and third degree rape, he and his attorney are asking for it as well. What they want is her cell phone. They want her cell phone to find out if she had been with another guy. But I believe their biggest problem is going to be the video one of them took for fun as she was being raped, according to the state. Karen, isn't it true that also someone hung a T-shirt up covering up the car window so no one could see what was happening? I believe so. And the other thing that I wanted to add on to it,

that the attorney for Case and Carver, Joe Long, in speaking with him, the other thing he's mentioning is that the reason he wants these cell phone records for the last 72 hours. He's claiming it is under the rape shield law that the exemption under Code 412 basically allows that. And he wants to be able to say that maybe this injury came from somebody other than these people who were in the vehicle and the defendants in this case. And how do you respond to that? To Rachel D. Fisher, forensic nurse expert, when you say if the injuries are acute, that means they just happened. Correct. It means that it happened within a relatively recent time period.

And by the time the exam was done, it wasn't done immediately. It wasn't done in the ER. It was done later while she was deceased. She was at the coroner's office, right? So it's not going to show healed injuries on an acute exam. So the fact that they found that and they found DNA, those are both consistent with every other piece of evidence that we have here. Guys, we are talking about an obvious bid to drag Maddie Brooks's name through the mud. Video has already been leaked. We are told by the defense of her slurring her words. She was at a bar where she actually had worked and was fed and fed and fed and fed alcohol.

A video has already been leaked where her words were being slurred, and it's said it was leaked by the defense to make her look bad. Now we understand that part of her autopsy report has been leaked. I mean, how many times does this young girl, even in death, have to be victimized? Toby Wilson is joining me, forensic consultant specializing in DNA, serology, and bloodstain pattern analysis at noslowforensic.com. Toby, jump in. Well, you know, I've been through many sexual assault cases in my career, and the defense is almost always one of trying to make the victim the problem.

They put them on trial rather than the defendants. And it always comes down to, well, consensual. But the thing is, is that in this case, consensual doesn't work. A 0.31 blood alcohol level is unbelievable. Normally, you only see that type of level with people who are alcoholics and have developed a tolerance to drinking. 0.31 is, you know, you can't walk as the articles or the indications are. You can't walk. You can't talk. You can't, you slur your words if you are able to talk. That is severely drunk. So, you know, this really comes down to the idea of consent. A person that drunk can't give consent to anything.

So the argument that it was consensual, you know, I can't see any jury buying that if they bring in forensic toxicologist to talk about the effects of a 0.31 level on someone, you know, you know, whose body size, you know, is small and how, how much the alcohol affects your mobility situation. As for the DNA,

the lack of DNA, it doesn't mean there wasn't sex. It doesn't mean there wasn't a rape. It just means that there's no ejaculation that occurs. And the one ejaculate that they do test, you know, ties the one guy in and it then becomes a case of, did she say you could? And as I said, 0.31 is not going to be working for a consensual argument. So the lack of DNA is not an issue that says there was no sex, that says there was no rape. It just means that there was no ejaculation. But it can also be argued the alternative interpretation of that is there was no sex. But, you know, I think with the video and all that, that's, again,

a moot point. So going back one more area, the male DNA that was found in her anal area, that's an interesting thing because there are other technologies that could be used now that are very sensitive to test that male DNA to determine the genetic line that it came from. So when you get a male-only profile, all you can say is it was that individual, his brothers, his father, anyone who's in a direct line of that, because male DNA, just like mitochondrial DNA, which is female, is passed down the same from generation to generation by the men in the family. So, you know, I'm kind of surprised that there wasn't further analysis. Speaking of the DNA, Jared Fiorentino with me, veteran homicide prosecutor, but he's certainly tried rape cases as well. This is how I would put this case together. Number one, you have the DNA of one of the defendants in her

genital area. I believe it's Kayvon Washington. And correct me if I'm wrong, Karen. So you've got Kayvon Washington with DNA. You've got the driver of the car taking the video. Isn't that right, Karen? Yes. Yes, that's correct. So you've got the driver of the car taking a video. Which one is the driver, Karen? Jason Carver.

And you have the driver stating they're about to rape her. And they're crazy. Okay, so you even have one of the defendants saying the other three are about to rape her. Nancy, do you mind if I add one other thing? Please do. So when he was pressed, Carver was asked, how could it be that it was consensual when she was so drunk? Didn't he think that she was too drunk? And allegedly he said, yeah, I guess, I guess. Exactly. So even he admitted that. And you also had them laughing. Laughing. And in the video, reportedly, you see guys swapping out, being in the backseat.

Is that true, Karen Chawla? You do. And in fact, they took turns. Kayvon Washington was in the back, and I believe Lee was in the back. And then the uncle of one of these kids was in the front along with case and carver so with the video that they took because they thought it was funny to video a girl who was completely inebriated being raped in the back seat they thought that was a good thing that fun video they took is now going to be state's exhibit number one. So in my mind, Jarrett Fiorentino, I don't need all their DNA.

What? I'm supposed to believe them or my lying eyes when I look at that video? What do they say, Nancy? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Okay, I'm totally stealing that. I said that, not you. Go ahead. You got it. It's yours. I stole it from someone. But this is just a cocktail of evidence that suggests what was going on. It's great evidence you have one of their DNA, but it's not dispositive of anything because some of other DNA was not on her body. They were there. The video, the ride, the statements, it all put together paints a picture of a horrific situation inside that car. This girl was gang raped. Matt, she was gang raped. And when you

have a situation like that, you're going to have some DNA. You're not going to have all of it. And you have just a plethora of other evidence here to play out in front of a jury. These guys are in big trouble. Nancy, may I add one thing? Please do. So in my conversations with Joe Long, and again, Joe Long is who is representing Case and Carver. The other reason he says he wanted the text messages from 72 hours before is to show that if she was texting, maybe in the minutes or hours leading up to what happened in the car, that he wants to be able to say that she was okay enough,

not inebriated enough to be sending text messages, possibly coherent text messages, and to show that she actually wasn't as drunk as everybody is claiming she was. You mean as her blood alcohol says that she is? Yes. Okay. Of course, the mom has also told me, Madison's mom, that she actually left her cell phone in the bar. So she didn't even have it with her when she left out for that night. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, believe it or not, the rape defendants, and they're really lucky, and I don't get it,

that they haven't been charged with felony murder because she is dead while a felony was ensuing. They raped her, according to the state. It's got to be proven in a court of law, of course. Then put her out of the car on a busy freeway, which is abandoned and malignant heart, which is a theory of murder, and she died. There's two theories of murder here. Felony murder, a death occurs during the commission of a felony. The death does not have to be intentional. It's like Jackie and I go rob another bank. I say, don't pull your gun. She gets a wild hair. She shoots the teller. I'm charged with felony murder because a death occurred while I was committing a felony. I didn't mean for it to happen, but I'm still charged with felony murder.

There's that theory and there is abandoned and malignant heart. For instance, if I get in my minivan and I plow through, let's say, a street fair in 90 MPH and I kill somebody, I was acting with an abandoned heart with no thought for human life. That's two theories of murder. So these guys should be thanking their lucky stars they're not charged with murder. Not quite sure why they're not charged with murder, but yet they are actually complaining. Take a listen to our cut 40, our friends at WBRZ2. Carver didn't say anything to reporters, but his lawyer had plenty to say.

That's correct. About the rape charge Carver is facing. My client has been devastated. The allegations on an 18-year-old, now 19-year-old man are very sobering, and he's getting through it the best he can. He's got a good support system with his family behind him. But the media publicity by the civil lawyer does not help. Going on Fox and trashing my client, calling him a murderer, calling him a rapist and a murderer, that does not help. Wow. Whose fault is it that he's being charged? Why was he even in the car when this was happening to Maddie Brooks? Kieran Chawla, joining me, you can find Kieran unfiltered with Kieran. Kieran Chawla,

what more can you tell us? When will the case go to trial? What more do we know about the defense efforts to get her cell phone? What else is happening? We're expecting a trial possibly next fall. So it's going to be at least another year. And I know that seems like it's going to be a very long time, but you have four cases that have to go to trial. The other one that kind of comes up as a caveat is Kayvon Washington. Now he's actually facing a first degree rape rape charge also in Livingston Parish. That's a neighboring parish.

Oh, dear gravy. He's got a similar transaction? Oh, yes. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I need to write this down. So Kayvon Washington, who I might add, is also on the video, according to Miller, pushing, shoving Maddie down in the backseat. He's the one whose DNA is in her genital area. Okay.

He's got another rape charge. Tell me about that, Karen. Yes, we covered this case. And after all this came to light, I had somebody reach out to us. And the young girl was 12 years old at the time that it happened. And she's now 15. So granted, this happened three years ago and an arrest was never made in the case. Not even, I think, the day after we did the report, Kayvon Washington was arrested in connection to this rape.

And the police department locally telling us, oh, the witness from three years ago just came forward, that her friend was with her and saw it happening. Total BS. They didn't follow through on the investigation. So yes, and he's been arrested in that case and he's facing another first degree rape charge there. And obviously first degree rape in Louisiana carries mandatory life. So that's a big play as well because he's facing two first degree rapes in two different parishes. Kayvon Washington and Desmond Carter have both admitted to, as they say, sex activity with Maddie. The young girl who's so out of it, she leaves her phone behind and is seen in the video being pushed down in the back seat. So with Kayvon Washington, who admits and has another rape

charge that was never prosecuted, it will be now. That's a day late and a dollar short because Maddie's dead. If he had been prosecuted in that case, he might have been behind bars and Mattie would be alive today. Kayvon Washington and Desmond Carter, according to reports, both admit to sex activity, as they call it, with the victim. The driver, Cason Carver, it's his car, and he says on video, they're about to rape her. Then we have Everett Lee. Now, if I were trying it, Jarrett Farentino, I would get the one who is the least culpable, if I could even figure out who that would be. Turn them over. Give them a deal, of course, that has substantial jail time.

And have them, that person, rat out on the other three so I could get them 20 to life. Thoughts? I think that's likely to happen here, Nancy. If you don't have that, I still think there's a strong case. Obviously, if you can get the driver or somebody to flip, it just seals the fate of these guys. You really don't need the flip though. I mean, I've said before to a jury, sometimes you got to go to hell to get the witness to put the devil in jail. I really believe if you tried these four together, put them all in the same pot to stew, that there would be a conviction on every one of them because they're in it together. And the video, it's really the video that they thought was such a great idea. That is the nail in their coffin

um rachel fisher what do you believe is the strongest evidence for the state as a a rape kit nurse so the the toxicology kit obviously because it shows the lack of consent because it was drug facilitated sexual assault um and then the evidence of an acute abrasion, meaning the skin is freshly off the skin and not a healed abrasion. And then the DNA on her, it wasn't in her vagina. From what I've read, it was found on the genitals, but anybody's DNA on somebody else's genitals being found, that just shows that you shouldn't be there. She wasn't consensual. The toxicology kit shows that. So whether they admitted to doing it and she wanted it, they could admit that all day, but it wasn't consensual. It was drug facilitated.

So either way, they knowingly facilitated it and it was done. It's there. Maddie Brooks, just 19, died in the hospital after allegedly being gang raped and struck by a car. As we all know, and let me emphasize strongly, these young men are presumed innocent. Everything that we have discussed is based on video that we have seen, the video we're talking about. We've seen it. The autopsy report and the statements of the defendants. That's where we're getting this analysis. That and more will be brought out at trial should this case go to trial. But in our system of jurisprudence, everyone is presumed innocent unless and until the state meets the burden of proving their guilt beyond a reasonable

doubt. If the state fails under the law, they walk free. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.