Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - “Pet” dogs found gnawing rib-bone of gorgeous young owner, Plus: Nude photos of patient taken in surgery

Episode Date: January 4, 2018

Why would a dog attack its owner? Nancy Grace talks with animal trainer Dr. Grey Stafford about recent attacks on humans by dogs. Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and reporter Scott Kimbler join the discussion. Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reporter Ben Schmitt updates the scandalous story of a patient who is suing a hospital after she saw a nude photo taken of her by hospital staff during surgery. Psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall weighs in. How can your cell phone kill you? Nancy talks with Alan Duke about deaths blamed on people talking on their smart phones while in the bath tub. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. her own dogs. All I heard was don't come down here it's bad. There were various artists of clothing under clothing scattered about the area not far from the body and torn into small pieces there were patches of blood. They were out in the cold in the kennel and I'm not saying that the family was neglectful at all. They were kept outside and they previously had been inside dogs. A gorgeous 22-year-old Virginia woman found dead. Controversy swirling around her death, the cause of death at first unbelievable. As it turns out, police insist she was chewed to death by her own pit bulls. Now, there was a public outcry saying it couldn't possibly have been her beloved pit bulls.

And finally, police release another fact which really shut down the controversy. They said, oh, yes, it was because we found one of the dogs chewing her rib bone. Yeah, I think that pretty much settles it. With me, Crime Stories contributing reporter Scott Kimbler, Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and joining me, special guest, Dr. Gray Stafford, a zoologist, educator, animal trainer, currently at Grand Canyon University. And Gray and I, Dr. Gray Stafford, excuse me, were brought together by none other than Jody Arias. Now, I'll save that story

for another time. The sex siren turned killer. I want to go first, though, to Scott Kimbler joining us. It's hard for me to believe that pet dogs would turn on this gorgeous young girl and kill her as she's out giving them a walk. Let's start, Scott Kimbler, with how her body was found. Well, her body was found near her father's home. She had been taking the dogs for a walk, and she'd been missing for some time. And as the father went looking for her, he found her near a walking trail, actually being guarded by the dogs. And her body was badly dismembered along this walking trail.

To Joe Scott Morgan joining us and Dr. Grace Stafford, what I have learned is that the Virginia woman, Bethany Lynn Stevens, just 22, was found dead in a heavily wooded area. Her father is the one who found her body, And when he found the body of his daughter, and I can't imagine that horror of finding your daughter's body, he said her body was being aggressively guarded by her two pit bulls. Now, there's a Goochland County Sheriff, James Agnew, who says it was one of the most horrific crime scenes, horrific scenes he had ever seen. At first, Dr. Grace Stafford, who I met first at Wildlife World Zoo, I believe was the name of it, out in Arizona during the Jody Arias trial. We spent a lot of time together, Dr. Gray Stafford.

When you first heard, and I treasure every minute, and I've still got photos of you in my scrapbook with me and you and the twins and all sorts of exotic animals, exotic to me anyway, who grew up on a dirt road outside of Macon, Georgia. But, Gray, you know I would not let my children around any kind of a wild animal at all if you hadn't been there. Okay, so I truly trust you. When you first heard this story about Bethany's body being found in a wooded area being guarded

by her dogs, I thought someone else had killed her and they were the ones guarding her. Yeah, I think that certainly makes for a better story, right? But in this case, it appears that the dogs were, you know, attacking her and consuming her. And it certainly invites a lot of questions as to what the condition those dogs were in prior to this very tragic event occurring. So what do we know about that? Scott Kimbler, Crime Stories contributing investigative reporter, what condition was her body in? Her body was in very bad condition. It was considered to be dismembered,

and police describe it as a very, very grisly scene. To Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, how can they determine that the dogs, her pet pit bulls, were responsible? It's very specific, isn't it, Nancy, what we're looking for. We need to keep two terms in mind. That term is anti-mortem and post-mortem. The anti-mortem injuries, one of the injuries they're describing, they're actually describing as defensive injuries on her arms, which we'll see in any number

of different types of attacks. Do they marry up with the injuries that could be sustained by these types of animals? And then secondly, we have to try to determine if these injuries are post-mortem, which means after death. And that's the key here. What is, what's critical here is to determine what exactly is the manner and cause of death. I think that a lot of people, you know, parroting what the doctor said a moment ago about guarding the remains, that makes everybody feel all warm and fuzzy as much as they can in a circumstance like this. But the reality is, are they protecting a food source as opposed to their master. What we know also is that police responded, the sheriff responded to an outcry of animal rights activists that said these dogs couldn't

possibly have killed her because she took such good care of them. She was found dead in a quote grisly scene two days after she was last seen heading out to walk her dogs near her Goochland, Virginia home. Friends insisted her beloved pets would never have killed her, claiming the dogs would, quote, kill you with kisses and suggesting instead that Bethany was murdered. Dr. Gray Stafford, how can animals have such different personalities? I mean, the friends were shocked. Right. You know, Nancy, that's a great question. There's a phenomenon called displaced aggression, and humans experience it, and certainly animals do as well. And what I mean by that is the animals might have been loving, caring pets most of the time, but there may have been some triggering event in that walk or in their experience that

set them off, that caused them to be aggressive, that had nothing to do with the victim herself. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but it's certainly a very common experience where animals, quote unquote, can fly off the handle in a situation that they're not prepared for, that you wouldn't normally see them behaving that way. So I'm not surprised that you can see this kind of shocking behavior from any creature. Think about the last time you snapped at somebody because you were worried about some issue, and that person just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, friends insist the pets, her beloved pets, would

never have killed her but instead would kill you with kisses. But on the following Monday, the Sheriff James Agnew ruled out murder, describing the scene he and his officers found. Listen. I observed, as well as four of other deputy sheriffs observed the dogs eating the ribcage on the body. And so they became more isolated where the only contact that they had was with each other and it was on a and less and less human contact. There were various artists of clothing, underclothing, scattered about the area, not far from the body, and torn into small pieces. There were patches of blood.

The victim had defensive wounds on her hands and arms, trying to keep the dogs away from her, which would be consistent with being attacked while she was still alive. It appears that the first traumatic injury to her was to her throat and face area. There were no strangulation marks. The victim had puncture wounds in the skull and this was not a homicide. As you hear from the sheriff himself, the dog's eating the rib cage of the body. Okay, Dr. Gray Stafford, not only do they allegedly kill her, but then they're enjoying a little brunch out in the woods on their dead owner. Gray? Yeah, well, they are animals. And again, it goes to the question of what condition were these animals being cared for?

And were they uh were they being were they hungry were they malnourished uh in the in the time preceding this incident um i mean they're going to have to find a food source and it's it's it's ghastly but again it goes to the question of what condition were these animals in prior to this attack well if she uh to you scott kimbler investigative reporter has been taking such good care of them and they are her beloved pets, what is Gray talking about the condition they were being kept in? Well, being taken care of pretty well was the case when they were with her. But here, as of lately, she had some issues going on in her life.

And for whatever reason, she had left the dogs to be cared for by her father. Now, there, police say that these dogs could easily have been considered neglected. Where they had been inside dogs, they were now outside dogs that were being kept in kennels. And police also say they were not being fed daily. So these were neglected animals at this point that only saw their regular master, Bethany Stevens, a couple of times a week as opposed to where they had been her constant companion in time past. So they were likely angry, okay, that she wasn't with them every day. Dr. Grace Stafford, I've never been a cat person. I've always been a dog person. But when I was a prosecutor living in Midtown Atlanta, a stone's throw from the courthouse,

I found a stray cat, which I immediately named Coco. And I tried to give the cat away to a lot of cat lovers I knew. I was highly allergic to cats. But nobody would take the cat. So I took the cat. Well, can I tell you how much I love that cat? I still dream about the cat. I had Coco for 18 years.

In fact, I nearly broke up with my now husband over the cat because I went to New York and he was keeping the cat while I was gone, and he lost the thing. Can I tell you? because I went to New York and he was keeping the cat while I was gone, and he lost the thing. Okay? Can I tell you? I mean, I remember I was in Washington, D.C., doing a Larry King show. I had to ask. I said, how's Coco tonight?

And he hadn't even told me the cat was gone. Can I tell you? I was so mad at him I had to take the phone in another room to tell him that if he did not find that cat, we were breaking up, period. How could he be so careless and negligent as to lose my little Coco? And Coco was with me almost every day of my pregnancy. When I could not walk and was in a wheelchair, Coco would be with me. And he lived long enough to see me have the twins and finally find happiness. And then he went to heaven. So I completely understand being

connected to a pet. Okay, what was my question, Jackie? I carried away with Coco the cat. Oh, okay. My question is this. So the cat. When I would have to go out of town, I'm a bath person. I'll take a shower if I have to. The cat got mad at me one time and went and pooped in my bathtub, which was totally unlike him. He did that once in his life. And I chased him around the apartment with a rolled-up inquirer.

He never did. I never actually made contact with him because he hid under the bed. But he never did it again. But clearly, he was mad at me because I was gone. That was my point, Jackie. So what do you make of this? She is in the process of moving, so she gives the pit bulls to her dad to keep them, and they're mad.

Well, Nancy, you know, I'm a behaviorist, so it's important for me not to try to ascribe human thoughts and feelings to animal behavior. Okay, Gray, Gray. But however. I have always told you that some of my best witnesses on the stand were dogs i think they're a lot smarter than a lot of people i know i don't disagree with that but i i do think that what you describe and that's a great story about coco what you describe is that animals

well that animals don't handle change well in some cases some animals can handle change just fine you go to new y York to host Larry King, and the animal's upset and maybe wanders off from your husband. Not all animals handle change well. My now husband, as I like to refer to him, my current husband, because he almost didn't become my husband after he lost Coco. We all deserve a second chance, don't we? But the thing with animals is if they're not

prepared to deal with changes, that could be changing where they live, how they live, how often they're fed, who's coming to visit, who's not visiting. Those are really important things in the lives of animals. And in some cases, animals are very poorly conditioned behaviorally and socialized poorly early on. And so they don't handle these changes very well. But Scott, according to what I've read, family and friends say the dogs were very well socialized. Have you learned the same thing, Scott Kimbler? Yes, like the reference that if they were going to kill you with anything, it would be killing you with kisses.

But again, Nancy, their environment changed considerably. One would even consider drastically when they were an indoor apartment dog and then being kept outside and apparently not being treated very well, according to police. But what we know of it is that Bethany came home five times a week to see the dogs. They, true, had been moved to an outside kennel, but that was, you know, compared to the life they had before living with her in her home, I can see how they didn't like the change. But another issue is that it's extremely rare for a dog to just attack at random. So my question to you, Gray, is once a dog tastes human flesh, I have researched, and according to the sheriff, it is no longer safe to have the dog around humans. Why is it always pit bulls and Rottweilers? Why not a little Corgi or a Labrador or a Golden Doodle?

Why is it always the pit bulls, Gray? Well, I think that some of that is due to the reporting. I think a lot of dogs are misidentified in reporting. It's easy to have a blanket phrase like a pit bull, which actually can encompass several different breeds and hybrids. And so I think that there is an inflation, if you will, in the reporting and maybe some inaccuracy there. They're also very popular dogs. So if you go to different regions of the world, you may see dogs that have more bites per capita because they're just more popular in that part of the world.

And certainly pit bull are popular here in the United States. So they dominate the numbers a little bit. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. How can they tell beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was killed by her dogs? How they're going to be able to tell Nancy is matching the bite mark and the bite mark and also any kind of claw marks that were made by these animals. And the idea here is consistency. Consistency with the type of injuries that this particular breed of animal can generate. And that can come from, say, an examination of the dentition, the teeth of the dog,

as well as the paws with the claws and how the death was precisely facilitated. Many times I've seen in mauling instances, animals will go for an area like the neck, and that's kind of soft tissue. So, they would be able to match up to a certain degree of reasonable certainty the measurement of the mark on the neck as it compares to the marks that could be generated by these particular animals. I'd be very interested to know if they, how well, say a forensic veterinarian examined the teeth of these dogs after the attack. Dr. Gray Stafford, who is an animal trainer, a zoologist, an educator, a longtime colleague and friend, all the way back to the Jody Arias trial days, the first trial that is. Gray, were there reports that one of the dogs had been violent in

the past? Well, I think from the reporting, we know that these were litter mates. I think the victim had adopted the one at a young age, and the other one may have been adopted out elsewhere, and then she then took the animal in. And there's some indication that that other dog came from a difficult or abusive situation. Not a lot of reporting on that, but certainly you want to ask those questions about what sort of upbringing these animals had, how well socialized were they, how well were they conditioned to deal with changes. And as your other guests have pointed out, these dogs had gone through some immediate and dramatic changes in the days and weeks prior to this very tragic event. We are on it to Scott Kimbler, investigative reporter, Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, and my longtime friend, Dr. Grace Stafford.

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you know, high blood pressure can lead to a stroke. Hey, I'm going to do what I can do to maintain healthy blood pressure. Super Beats, thank you. Can you even imagine going under the knife? First of all, that's traumatic enough, okay, because I've had several operations, none elective, and every time the last thing I remember is, Lord, please let me get back to my children. Well, the last thing I want to worry about is somebody taking nude photos of me with some kind of a tube stuck down my mouth and I'm totally passed out and what's probably strung up around my neck as a nursing gown. I mean, I don't want that. But that's exactly what one woman claims happened to her. And the perp, the person who allegedly takes photos of her lying there in surgery,

butt naked and disseminating them amongst her so-called friends is a nurse. It's almost more than I can take in here for all the facts is Ben Schmidt with the Pittsburgh Tribune Review who broke the story. Ben, what happened? Well, hi, Nancy. Yeah, and I think this story resonates with a lot of people for that reason is people imagine, what if that was me? And so the version that I – there's two versions here. I interviewed the plaintiff in this lawsuit.

Her name is Sheila Hrosky, and she worked at Washington Hospital, which is a little bit outside of Pittsburgh. She was a unit secretary there for 15 years, and she had to have some surgery done. It was a minor hernia surgery on an old incision, and she had the surgery done, and she came back to work a few weeks later, I think four or five weeks later, and her colleague, a nurse there, said, hey, I have something to show you. It might be good for your scrapbook. And according to Sheila Horoski, what the nurse showed her was four or five cell phone pictures of her on the operating table naked.

And that's how this whole story and lawsuit broke open. Okay, let me understand. You're claiming the victim in this scenario also worked there. Absolutely, she did. Explain to me, Ben Schmidt, Ben joining me from the Pittsburgh Tribune Review, who cracked the story. Ben, was there a connection between the victim and the alleged perpetrator? They're colleagues. They both work in the operating room. And there's other people that were in there as well, including the surgeon. And there's another version of what the hospital says happened that I can get into as well. But yeah, she's in there with her colleagues. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst,

joining me along with Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert. You know, Joe Scott, when are you any more vulnerable than you are during an operation? You're totally knocked out. And this was allegedly a friend of hers, but explain Joe Scott, just how knocked out this victim was. Oh, you're, if for those, for those in the audience that have never undergone, you're, it's a, it's a, it's total and complete darkness. You're at the hands and the mercy of those individuals that are around you. There's, I don't know of any other situation other than possibly the dead that are any more vulnerable in these circumstances. And there's an amount of trust that goes along with this. And this is, this has certainly been violated in this case. Dr. Bethany Marshall,

psychoanalyst joining me out of LA, in addition to Joe Scott Morgan. Dr. Bethany, I know you heard what Ben Schmidt just said, and he has beat the streets on this thing to talk to everybody. But imagine it being your friend that you work with that takes naked photos of you, butt naked on the operating table, just lying there, probably your arms and legs sprawled everywhere, and then disseminates them. It's so horrifying, Nancy. And not only a friend, but a friend who's in a position of seniority, because my understanding is that this is a nurse who took the pictures, but the victim, the patient was somebody at more of a clerical level in the hospital there. So she was actually abused by a superior. And the shocking thing about this

too, is that there's such strict laws. You know, we think of HIPAA, we think of all the training that goes into being a nurse, goes into being an anesthesiologist, a doctor, practice, the surgeon has a license to practice, and all these people are operating as a team in this surgical unit. So you have a group of people conspiring together against one victim who's not even conscious or aware. Back to Ben Schmidt, reporter with the Pittsburgh Tribune Review. You know, I'm looking at a photo of Sheila Hrosky. She's 45 years old and she has sued Washington Hospital as chief executive officer and the doctor performing her procedure after nude photos were allegedly taken of her during her surgery. Hey, that opens up a whole nother can of worms ben schmidt i mean i really

just started thinking about this this is an aside man just go with me down the rabbit hole for a moment when my friend my longtime friend joan rivers passed away and there were reports that one of the doctors or somebody within the operating room and it was at a clinic it wasn't at the hospital took selfies with joan as she was lying there on the table. That's when I first started thinking about the possibility of this. But Ben, the other can of worms that I'm talking about that was just opened up, the doctor, I mean, weren't there other people in there when the photo was taken? Shouldn't they have said something?

Well, absolutely, and that's what the lawsuit alleges. And it's interesting, if you're ready for me to get into the hospital side, I can do that. I've got to ask one more thing. Is it true that Sheila had worked in the hospital for about 15 years, and then a colleague comes up and approaches her when she gets back from her hernia surgery with photos on the friend's cell phone saying, Hey, I got something for your scrapbook, buddy, and it's her naked. Did that happen?

Those are the allegations, but it is a fact that she worked there for 15 years. And if you're looking at the same photo that we printed, it's actually her hospital ID. She emailed it to me because she wanted to prove that she was who she was. Oh, my stars. Okay, back to what I was asking about the doctor. His name was Dennis Brown. I don't know if he was in there when the photo was taken. I know he performed the surgery, but what do we know? What's the hospital saying? You're right, Ben. Let's hear their side of it. Well, and this is interesting because, you know, you're a legal expert. When you write these lawsuit stories and there's a corporation or a hospital, the reaction you get is it's pending litigation. We cannot comment. That's fully what I expected to get. Instead, I got a statement. And the statement is that Sheila

Horoski was knowledgeable of this and she participated in a practical joke and that she had known the doctor and was friends with him. And what she did was she got one of those Halloween type zombie scars or something and placed it on her abdomen before the surgery to play a joke on the doctor. And that that's what this was all about. However, at the same time, that statement says that the hospital still did do an investigation and they still did fire the nurse. So you've kind of got, okay, well, did she play a joke and did she expect pictures to be taken? And if so, why was the nurse fired? And then also on top of that, you're still not supposed to take pictures in there.

So there's a lot going on here. Okay, let me understand this. The hospital is saying that one of the friends had, well, I don't know if I'd call it a friend, one of the colleagues had one of those zombie scars you wear at Halloween and put it on the woman's stomach and took a picture of the stomach. And it was a joke on the doctor for when he came in. But she, Sheila Horofsky, is saying they took naked photos of her. That's a lot different, Ben Schmidt. A naked photo of your body while you're passed out that's a lot different ben schmidt a naked photo of your body while you're

passed out unconscious is a lot different from a photo of a fake incision or a fake scar on your tummy that's correct and she does she did say to me up front that she participated in that joke but she still had no idea that someone was going to take pictures of her and then show her the pictures and then disseminate the pictures. So she was very upfront. Yes, I did do the scar and they will probably mention that. Go ahead. Well, I don't understand is Nancy. Yes. Yeah. Hey, listen, if I could just interject something right here real quick, I, one of the things here that's, that's really striking to me from a scientific background is the fact that, first off, they have this, I'm assuming this is being done from a phone in a

surgical suite. Surgical suite is supposed to be a sterile environment. And now you're talking about bringing in some kind of cosmetic appliance that's used during Halloween. How was all this stuff treated relative to the cleanliness of it? And now you're telling me that you're going to open up this woman in what is supposed to be a sterile environment using sterile procedures, gloves, instruments, and all this sort of thing, and you're introducing these items into this environment. This is setting the stage for something that is absolutely horrific when we think about things like septicemia and we're thinking about all these nosocomial infections, which are infections. Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow it down. I don't even know what you're

saying, nosocomial. Nosocomial infections. That means infections that come about as a result of the environment that you're in. And hospitals in and of themselves are notorious for being little breeding grounds of infection. It makes sense because of all the sick people there and these people are vulnerable. And, you know, this strikes a real chord. Yeah, I mean, her privacy has obviously been violated. She's been violated as a person. But if you want to take it down to the base level here, to the basement of this thing, we're talking about a life endangering circumstance that these people certainly should know better. And at the end of the day, at the end of the day,

the surgeon that is in that suite with that person, they are the captain of that ship. This means that the responsibility and the onus of this falls on their shoulders. It'll be real interesting to see how the hospital treats these surgeons or little gods, as I like to describe. I know, Joe Scott Morgan, you're the forensics expert. You're the professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. And I don't want germs either. Okay. I'm against germs. But Ben Schmidt, I'm a lot more against them if they're on my naked body, which is on a cell phone photo, which has been passed around.

I'm really against those germs. There's a big difference in these two stories. Ben Schmidt joining me from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. According to the hospital, it was a joke photo of just the victim's stomach with a fake scar, zombie scar put on it to shock the doctor when he walked in. They all worked together. As opposed to what she, Sheila Horofsky, is claiming in her 39-page complaint that naked photos, nude photos of her and specifically her genitals were taken and disseminated.

Ben Schmidt, those are two diametrically opposed stories. They cannot both be true that one is just the stomach and the other story is that were her genitals. Okay. I mean, maybe both types of photos were taken, but what do you know, Ben Schmidt? Well, and what we know about that is, and those are very valid points, but we do know for a fact that there was disciplinary action taken and that the nurse was fired. So the fact that the hospital, you know, went on record and said that, that tells you something as well, that they realized something was done wrong. We don't know exactly what the photos look like, but we know that somebody was fired and there were probably photos taken. You spoke directly with Sheila Horofsky. I have, yes. And did she show you the photos?

She did not. She does not have them. She saw them on the phone and she went home that day and then the next day went back to Human Resources and started reporting everything. Well, I guess so, if it's true.

Is her story, Ben Schmidt, that photos were taken of her genitals? That is her version, yes. When you spoke to her, Ben Schmidt, what was her demeanor? She's still very upset, but very detailed. And it's funny, she did actually, because she was the first interview I did through her lawyer. And she did say that they're going to claim that I used this scar and it was some sort of joke. And I didn't understand at the time what she was talking about. So I had

her, you know, go over those facts several times. And then sure enough, when the hospital did respond an hour or two later, that was their claim. But there was definitely, you know, she was emotional. She was crying on the phone, very upset. And the couple has requested a jury trial. They are not playing around. Now, she also says, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining me, psychoanalyst out of L.A., that she has been now treated as the bad person, that she has been harassed and approached and accused and mistreated at work since she went to HR about this?

Well, because she has challenged an entire hospital culture. You know the saying, Nancy, where there's smoke, there's fire. It's hard to believe that this is an isolated incident. These things do not just happen once. And as I said earlier, she was a little lower on the totem pole in terms of the staff there because she was, I think, the unit secretary. This is the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, the nurse. This is a whole group of people who have been in the OR together for a long, long time and somehow think that this kind of behavior is okay. I believe they lured her in

by saying that this was going to be a joke, that maybe even making her believe that she would be a part of their club, that she would be accepted by them in some way. And then once she was under and Nancy, not only naked, but intubated. When you think of somebody going into a major surgery and there's an anesthesiologist there, they're intubated. They have a tube down their throat. They're completely naked in the OR. Who knows how her body was posed. And they really took advantage of maybe what she thought was a benign or minor joke to actually photograph her entire body, her genitals.

She could not give consent. But again, you and I have covered so many hospital stories in the past where there's malpractice and all kinds of things go on. It's never an isolated incident. It's usually a culture of disrespect towards patients. And I think that that's what this story is going to uncover, that maybe more victims will come forward, maybe more patients. This nurse has a cell phone. What other pictures are on her cell phone? What is the hospital hiding? What other evidence is there out there? I think that that's what's going to be so

interesting about this case. To Alan Duke, joining me right now. Alan, what do we know? State investigators paid an unannounced visit on Washington Hospital's OR to see just how common it was for the staff there to have cell phones with them during surgeries. What they found? Many of the doctors and nurses had phones in their lab coat pockets. They ordered the hospital to take steps to educate the staff about the importance of not taking photos of patients. And it's worth noting, though,

the person who allegedly took this photo was a person of authority. To Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, every time I've had to have a surgery, which I just had one just recently for a mass that turned up in my chest that turned out to be benign. Praise God. But, I mean, during all my last multiple surgeries, the last thing, first of all, I insist that I smell everybody's breath to make sure that they are not drinking. That's the first thing.

Now that we've got that straight, as I'm sniffing their breath, I look at their eyes to see if they're dilated by chance. Then I bring up the specter of Joan Rivers. I bring up, you all read about what happened with Joan Rivers, right? Okay. And then the last thing I do is make everybody pray before we start the surgery. And hopefully between all that, everybody's sobered up enough that they won't take cell phone photos. I'm just thinking about this woman, and if these allegations are true,

and what Dr. Bethany was saying, Joe Scott, about she is, quote, just the secretary, and they are the OR nurses, and they are the doctor, and all these so-called professionals, how that must have made her feel. I mean, I know Bethany's a shrink, but Joe Scott, I mean, really, when you think of victims, I'd be very hard-pressed to say this was not a crime, Joe Scott. Yeah, I would be too, Nancy. I've worked in these environments similar to this with medical professionals for years and years, and there is a hierarchy in there and you,

and you hit, you hit the nail right on the head when you talked about being part of the club, um, and, uh, just to be accepted, just to be a part of it. And it's a horrible, horrible situation. Um, I think, I think it draws, draws to question this. If it had been the surgeon undergoing surgery, would they have done this to him? And I think that that really echoes here, that sentiment that everybody gets treated fairly in this kind of environment and respectfully. Because this is the ultimate violation. You really dehumanize this poor woman to the point where she'll be, you know, she'll be humiliated for years to come. And she might very well be a fantastic worker in this environment. That's a high stress environment. She's poured her life into it. And now you're

going to do this to her. It's absolutely, it's a terrible commentary on medical profession in general. And this is not an isolated incident, Nancy. This kind of thing has gone on in the past. And I would be very interested to know what else is on that phone, just as Dr. Bethany had mentioned. So where does it stand now? Ben Schmidt joining me, reporter with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. What's happening next, Ben? Well, the lawsuit was just filed last week.

And so that's, you know, I'm still processing that. But I think those are great points. And there's some questions I've asked. Was there a criminal investigation? Apparently there wasn't. And also, were there other incidents? Did the State Department of Health investigate? Those are some things that I'm going to be looking into going forward.

We're on it. Ben Schmidt, Pittsburgh Tribune Review. Joe Scott Morgan, Dr. Bethany Marshall. We are on it. I want to thank our partner today, LegalZoom. What will your story be 2018? The holiday rush is over, and now LegalZoom can help you make it a great year before all the distractions take hold. Make this the year you finally get serious about launching and running

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at LegalZoom.com. Get special savings if you enter Nancy, N-A-N-C-Y in the promo box at checkout. LegalZoom, where life meets legal. LegalZoom, thank you, not only for being our partner today, but for what you are doing for people all across our country. Thanks, LegalZoom. A pregnant woman found dead, submerged in her bathtub. Of course, they all immediately think, did the husband do it? But this time, we believe the culprit was her cell phone. I want to start with the story of a little teen girl who, just before she drops her phone in the bath and electrocutes herself to death, had actually taken a photo. This gorgeous little girl, Madison Coe from Lovington, New Mexico, had sent a text message just before her death. She sent the message to

a friend along with a picture of her phone plugged into an extension cord moments before she died, and she wrote, quote, when you use an extension cord so you can plug your phone in while you're in the bath, how many hundreds of times have I done that and put it on speaker so I could actually keep working while I was in the bathtub? Yes. Am I the only one that's done that? Okay, people in the studio are saying yes, you are. Okay, well, I don't believe that.

I want to first talk about little Madison Coe. This little 14-year-old girl electrocuted dead in her Lovington home using a cell phone while in the tub. She had just sent that text message photo I told you about. She was at her dad's home when she was fatally electrocuted after she touched a frayed extension cord she was using to charge her cell phone. Now at first, many of us, like police, thought that she had dropped her Samsung Edge Plus into the tub. But police say it had not been immersed in the water. As for the pregnant mom, we're not so sure about that.

To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. So Scott, I thought that when you drop a cell phone in the tub, first of all, what about when it is not plugged in for charging? Will that electrocute you? No, no, Nancy, it wouldn't. Because right then you're just talking about an energy source, which is strictly battery generated, which is only given off a very low amount of voltage. It's when we get into other areas that we have to be concerned. In fact, in this case, the little girl, Madison Coe, took extra precautions to keep the cords dry. You can see in the photo that she sent, she had placed them, kind of surrounded them with a towel. What she may not have known is that part of the cord was frayed. Now, what does that mean? While she's in the tub, police say she reached over and touched that

frayed extension cord, which may have caused the fatal shot. What does this mean, Joseph Scott Morgan? Well, what it means is anybody at home that you have an extension cord laying around, go take a look at it just for a second. You'll see that rubber lining that's on the outside of the cord. If that rubber lining, that rubber lining is there for a specific reason, because there are hot lines that are inside of that rubber lining. If they get frayed, if they get frayed, the outside of the lining gets cracked. that exposes you to this direct current that's coming out of the wall socket. And that's potentially what happened in this case, Nancy, because these wires were exposed as they begin to talk about. So then at that point in time, the electricity,

you know, you got to respect it. It doesn't understand. It goes directly into the body, and then it causes an electrical disruption in the heart. And this is a fatal, fatal event. To Alan Duke, joining me right now. Alan, what do we know? Well, we know that this is not the only instance of this happening. You mentioned the woman who, by the way, was eight months pregnant when she just very recently died in her bathtub. British authorities have been investigating this problem because they've also had deaths there. And one of the things that they found out, besides the extension cords, those lightning cables that cost so much if you buy the original Apple one, the ones that come with the phone, what are they? Twenty, twenty five, thirty dollars.

But a lot of times at convenience stores and other places, you find them for two or three dollars or less. And those are dangerous. British authorities tested 400 of those lightning cables that are used for iPhones. They found only three met safety standards. Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. And this little girl, according to the dad, she says she was my everything. And I know, I know how he feels. When I look at the twins, they're just my everything. She was smart, loving, recently

graduated eighth grade from Terra Vista Middle School. She played on the basketball team, on the band, made great grades, spending the summer with dad in Lovington where the fatal accident occurred on her way to high school. The family urging people, The bathroom is a place for showers and your phones don't belong in the bathroom. Electricity and water do not mix all it takes is a drop one drop i mean looking at this little girl she's just just beautiful to joseph scott morgan forensics expert what happens to your body even from a small shock well it's it's obviously very painful i think that many of us can identify with this.

And what happens is that the electricity that's coming out of the cord directly follows into the body, and it'll follow the path of least resistance. And just so that we understand, when our heart beats, that's a tiny electrical impulse that literally comes out of the brain. Okay? Just so folks at home understand that. And if this electrical impulse gets disrupted in any way, this can lead to a fatal cardiac event, which happened in this particular case, apparently. One more thing we need to understand, Nancy,

and I don't know if folks might be aware of this, but if in the bathtub when we're bathing and we use soap, soap actually makes our bodies more conductive to electricity than just, say, plain water. There's a whole electrochemical thing that goes on here. So if her hands were, in fact, soapy when she touched that line, it sets up for even a higher risk of lethality. I want to talk about the pregnant woman electrocuted, charging her phone as she used it in the bath just two weeks before she was to give birth. Just a beautiful, beautiful young lady. What happened, Alan Duke? This was on New Year's Eve, and she was at her home in the bathtub. Her husband had left the

home and realized that he couldn't get back in. He didn't have his keys, and he had to break the door down to get to his wife after she did not answer. When he rushed in, he found her submerged, unconscious in the bath. So many times we all of a sudden suspect the husband might have done something, but the paramedics came and tried to resuscitate her. Turned out she had suffered a cardiac arrest. They were unable to save her or the life of the baby. And the investigation subsequently concluded that it was the mobile phone charging quote in the immediate vicinity of the bathtub that caused electrocution. Her mobile phone was found, as police say, in the immediate vicinity of the bathtub and is believed to have caused electrocution, according to Ledefine Lieber.

To you, Joe Scott Morgan, how would that happen? If that is in fact what happened, I would not look at the phone so much. I would look at the cord, as Alan had mentioned earlier, because you're going to have to have a source itself where you have this direct line of current that is running. And essentially this water becomes electrified. One of the things I'd be very interested to know in this particular case, Nancy, is you've got this young woman who is in fact in advanced stage. She's just 21 years old. She is not going to have a heart attack. Okay. It had to be something else. No, but if one of the things I'd be interested in, Nancy, is she's in an advanced state of pregnancy at this point in time. How compromised she might have been, say, if this was just simply a jolt from the electricity. If she kept throwing around this term submerged in the water, I'd be very interested to know what the findings were relative to how much water she had on board in her lungs at autopsy when they went to examine her to see if this was safe. Well, they said she died of cardiac arrest. My interest is the electrocution.

How can you look at a body and tell someone was electrocuted? Most of the time when we take a look for electrocution, there will be a specific point of injury. And Nancy, this is a very fine, fine examination that has to take place. These marks, some people characterize them as burn marks. They won't necessarily look like burns sometimes. They'll have kind of a pinkish hue to them. You have to be very careful and you want to think about points of contact. What is the primary location? Well, first we're going to look at the palms of the hands, then any other kind of ancillary areas where her bare skin might've touched

that area. So the examination has to be very, very thorough, very thorough. Bottom line, cell phones and water do not mix. Charging your cell phone, electrical cords, extension cords, they don't mix. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.