Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - PICTURE-PERFECT MOM BLAMES "VACCINES" FOR TOT-TWINS DEATHS, NOW PRIME MURDER SUSPECT

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Andrea Shaw's 18 month old twins are found dead in a bed they shared. At first, a reaction to vaccinations were blamed by the mom. Now, the 23-year-old has been indicted on two counts of first-degree murder.  The indictment alleges Shaw suffocated her children.  Shaw has filed a civil lawsuit against the American Academy of Pediatrics, linked to Children’s Health Defense.   Joining  Nancy Grace today: Franz  Borghardt -  Criminal Defense Attorney, Founder of Borghardt Law Firm, Former Prosecutor, Adjust Professor at Louisiana State University teaching Criminal Litigation, website: www.borghardtlawfirm.com, Insta/FB: BorghardtLawFirm  Dr. Leslie Dobson -  Clinical and Forensic Psychologist,  Host: "Intentionally Disturbing" on iHeart,   www.drlesliedobson.com  Author: The Friend Cleanse - How to Set Boundaries With Energy Vampires,   @drlesliedobson  Claudia King  - Former Law Enforcement Officer, Domestic Violence Expert; Host of two Podcasts "No Contest" and "Strong Enough," www.claudiamking.com, @realclaudiaking  Dr. Kendall Crowns  - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host: "Mayhem in the Morgue", Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Vanessa Walsh - Host: Unmasked True Crime,  Facebook and YouTube: UnmaskedTrueCrime, X: CrimeUnmasked  Dave Mack  - Investigative Reporter, "Crime Stories"  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, a picture-perfect mother is blaming vaccines, routine vaccines, for the deaths of her taught twins. That's right. Two twins dead, blue in the face, mommy is blaming vaccines. Oh, by the way, mommy now, a prime murder suspect. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. 18-month-old twins Tyson and Dallas Shaw

are healthy, happy babies until they receive their annual vaccinations. Their mother, Andrea, says their health begins to decline rapidly shortly afterward. The twins later die. Now, one year after their deaths, investigators are focusing on their mother as the prime suspect. were dispatched to the 1,300 block of North 9th Street regarding a possibly deceased child. Upon arrival, the officers actually discovered that there were two deceased children in a shared bed. This is a heartbreaking case that affects the entire community. Obviously, it's extremely unusual for two infants to be found deceased and be believed to have passed at the same time. From our friends at K-I-V-I and as you legal eagles know, there is rarely a coincidence in criminal law.

Two babies die at the same time after medical complications, allegedly from vaccines, with us an all-star panel. But straight out to Vanessa Walsh, you know her well. She is a star of unmasked true crime and shot to the country. consciousness of our nation in the Lynette Hooker Overboard case. Vanessa, thank you for being with us. Vanessa, what happened? What do we know? So, Nancy, this case really has two competing stories. Andrea Shaw says that her 18-month-old twins, Dallas and Tyson, went, became severely ill after going in for their routine vaccines, including a flu vaccine on April 23rd of 2025. They were taken the yard the next day and then of course tragically on May 1st about a week later they were both

found dead in their shared bed. Wait, way, way, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Vanessa Walsh, who found the babies dead? Well, Andrew Kleeves on the podcast that she did, that she went in, that she had peeped in on them earlier in the morning and that she figured that they were just sleeping in because they had been ill. She said that when she went in, that she noticed that they were very still, that they were actually cold to the touch, that she turned Tyson over and tried to shake him awake. After she couldn't wake him, she called 911 and then went back into the room and tried to wake Dallas, but noticed that she was in the exact same condition as Tyson and that they had both appeared to be gone for a while. Okay, so short answer, Vanessa

Walsh, star of unmastery crime, is that mommy found them. dead. Now, that doesn't mean, as we all know, straight out to Claudia King, joining us out of Durham, North Carolina, former law enforcement, domestic violence expert, and host of two podcasts, one, no contest, and two, strong enough. Claudia, just because you find the body does not mean you had anything to do with the crime. But it is a starting point for law enforcement. Is not. It absolutely is, Nancy. And the fact that two were found together dead is also what we would call a clue that there might be something going on here, nefarious. And that's where investigators would want to start. Vanessa Waltz, star of unmasked true crime, did you tell me that after the baby's

death in their sleep, mommy went on a podcast? She did, Nancy. Just days. Just days. after she found the twins deceased, both her and her husband Nathaniel went on a podcast for the children's health defense. What I found really interesting about the podcast is she gave a lot of detail from the very beginning from when they got their vaccines right up until she found them both deceased in the bed. What is children's health defense podcast? What is that, Vanessa? So the children's health defense podcast is a nonprofit activist organization. that's known for its anti-vaccine advocacy. Oh, okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

So to Franz Borghardt joining us tonight, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney out of Baton Rouge, never a lack of business in the Baton Rouge criminal division, founder of Borghardt's law firm, former prosecutor, he's at Borghardtlawfirm.com. Franz. Don't you just hate it? When your client

goes onto a podcast and gives a very detailed statement about what happened when her twins, her babies, are found dead. It's not like it's they're out on the street selling dope. It's not like they did themselves harm.

It's not a drive-by shooting. So Mommy takes it upon herself. to speak out on a podcast. Some would say, absolving herself of any neglect or wrongdoing. But out, because now you're stuck. You are stuck with that statement. Nothing you can do about it.

Because isn't it true, Borghardt, that the Constitution protects us all from police or state wrongdoing? For instance, did the state beat her into, a confession? No. Did they trick her, which actually is allowable under the Constitution? Did they coerce her? Did they offer her something, a reward or some tangible, positive, some beneficial result in exchange for talking? No. She sat in a chair and got on a podcast all of her own. The state, the Constitution, does not protect you from your own. blabbing. Isn't that true?

Yep. Those statements are all coming in. It's not an interrogation. So I have to deal with the fact if I'm representing her that all that garbage is coming in. And the only way you can make lemonade out of that, Nancy, is you've got to lean into the belief that she was trying to figure out what happened to her kids. And she believes that it was the vaccination that caused it, but I would definitely prefer for her to shut her mouth on that. Shut your pie hole, lady, but sadly, that cow is out of the barn. Okay, this is what, part of what, it's just so long that I can't even play at all, what Mommy said, and I find it very interesting to Dr. Leslie Dobson joining us.

I'm about to play, Mommy. Give me a sec. Dr. Leslie Dobson is a clinical and forensic psychologist. She's host of a brand new IHeart podcast called Intentionally Disturbing. Okay, that's a good name. Author of The Friend Cleanse, and you can find her at Dr. Leslie Dobson.com. Dr. Leslie, thank you for being with us tonight. I find it very interesting that instead of speaking on any other platform or giving a supplemental interview to police, speaking to her doctor, she goes on to children.

Children's Health Defense, which Vanessa Walsh has just told us is an anti-vax platform. Correct. All of this is smelling very, very funky. This lady enjoyed attention, and she was not mourning the loss of her babies. You know, if it's smelling fishy, there's a fish somewhere. Oh, I like that. I had just written down. Let me see, Dobson, please.

Dr. Leslie Dobson, is this out of the DSL. SM smelling funky because I was expecting a little bit more from you. I'm not laughing. I got two dead bodies to figure out and their babies and their boy girl twins just like mine. And it'll be a cold day in hell before I blame their ailment on a vaccine. Okay. That said, could you expound a little bit on your clinical diagnosis of smelling funky? Well, we're still in the alleged phase, but if we were looking at this and what we're seeing publicly, we are seeing things similar to Munchausen's by proxy, factitious disorder.

This is where individuals harm their children to get attention. They get validated by medical staff and individuals around them. And, you know, six to 10 percent of mothers who do this to their children who harm them end up ending their lives, six to 10 percent. So it's actually one of the most dangerous forms of abuse towards children. Guys, you're seeing shots of the tiny victims in this case, Dallas and Tyson Shaw. You just mentioned something, Dr. Leslie Dobson. I've never heard of factitious disorder. It sounds like you got your facts wrong, not you, but that the factitious disorder means you've got your facts wrong

and you're spinning them to support your theory. I call that a lying a hole. You seem to be calling it factitious disorder. What is factitious disorder? It's when we're fabricating things for secondary gain like attention. And it doesn't mean we're insane. It means we literally are willing to hurt people. They are seen as objects so that we can get something for ourselves. And in this case, it looks very, very extreme like the suffocation of babies. I want to warn Franz Borghardt joining us. For now, and criminal defense attorney out of Baton Rouge. Be careful what you say, my dear, because I've got Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us,

and he's going to be listening to you, Rompel Stilskine, as you spin out that moldy, damp hay into some defense attorney gold, okay? And I will call you on it. But that said, your worst nightmare is coming true. Here's Mommy on a podcast. When I went in there, two-wigs them up is when I found them the way they they were. Were the babies cold?

Had they gone long before? Yeah. Both of them cold. Yeah. And in the way I saw them, they looked as if they had gone in their sleep. They were in their sleeping positions. I think it's called Rick and Mortis.

They were, their faces were in sleeping faces. I, yeah. That's from, the Children's Health Defense podcast. And I just learned a lot. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining me, as promised. We're now in Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County. That's not easy to become the Chief Medical Examiner over teams of other medical examiners,

all of them brilliant medical doctors. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at T.C. you and he's the star of a hit podcast, which I listen to on Loop sometimes when I'm jogging, mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I want to talk to you about what Mommy just said. When I say Mommy, I'm talking about Andrea Shaw. Were the babies cold? Yeah, she says.

Both of them? Yeah. What does that tell me in ambient temperature? In other words, let's just pretend it sits 69, 70 degrees, room temp. They're cold. That tells me a lot about the time of death, doesn't it? So time of death can be difficult to exact, you know, drill down on because everybody goes through different stages at different levels. With babies, it actually can be very difficult because they have little body fat, little

insulation. So the fact that the children had equated to the surrounding temperatures probably of the room and didn't feel warm anymore, it gives you a window of they've probably been dead at least an hour or so. They mentioned rigor mortis in there. Usually rigamoros occurs in about two to six hours after death. Again, it's going to be faster in babies because they have less muscle mass. So, you know, it can't give you an exact time frame, but the children had probably been dead at least an hour. so. What is rigor? What is rigor mortis? Rigor mortis is the stiffening of the body. As the body dies, the muscle activity continues on and uses up all the reserves that are in the body. So then it causes the muscles to end up in contraction. Starts with the small muscles first, like your jaws, your eyes, going to the bigger muscles later, arm, leg, etc. And it occurs over a time frame of about two to six hours for it to traditionally set in. Now with babies it's going to be faster because they have less muscle mass, less reserves. I notice that she says they were in their sleeping positions as if they had gone to

sleep. I can't tell for sure yet if they were on their back, which is where they're supposed to be, or if they had turned over, they say their faces were in sleeping. Their faces were in sleeping. Their faces were in quote, their faces were in sleeping faces, right? I don't know what that means. Their eyes were closed. But here's Mommy. Okay, Franz Borkhart, please stop sniveling because mommy's still talking. Listen. I flipped over Tyson because I tried to shake him awake and he did it. I flipped him over and I saw him and immediately ran to the living room to grab my phone and called 911. and I went back into the room and sat on their bed and then that's when I flipped Dallas over and saw her the same way. Vanessa Walsh, joining us from Unmasked True Crime. This sounds like she is sleeping in the same room with the children.

Let's analyze what she says. I love parsing suspects statements word by word. I could just do it all night long. I don't know if anybody notices. She says, I ran to the living room to grab my phone and call 911. I went back into the room and sat on my bed. That's when I flipped Dallas over and saw her the same way. Is she sleeping in the same bed with them?

Are they co-sleeping? Are they in a bassi beside her? I mean, I always slept practically every night in the room with the twins at this age, but not in the same bed with them because pediatricians advise against that. but I was in the room with them. Does this mean they were in the same bed? Definitely the same room. Would you agree with that, Vanessa?

Yes. And she does talk about the fact that they do co-sleep. She said that it helped their twin bond. So they were in a shared bed at the time that they passed away. So I took that to be the same way that they were co-sleeping. I found it interesting when she said that she peeped in on them once and then came back later because it was 11.30 a.m. and she was wondering why they had slept so late.

Reminder, Andre Shaw, as we go to air tonight, is innocent under the law. Listen. And you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage. And breathtaking triumph. 2026 FIFA World Cup. The knockout stage. Every match.

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Franz Borchard veteran criminal defense attorney out of the Baton Rouge jurisdiction. That sound is from Children's Health. Defense, mommy chose to speak out and give all the facts to the anti-vax podcast Children's Health Defense. I'm learning a lot. It sounds like the children, the babies were turned over on their stomach, and she had to flip them over to see their faces. But wait a minute. She says earlier, they looked as if they had gone in their sleep. They were in sleeping positions. I think it's called rigor mortis. Their faces were in sleeping faces. So you know what's interesting. Franz, when you take apart her statement, that's a very important detail.

Were they face down or were they face up when she first saw them? Because right now, all these years later, I can still remember the last time I saw my fiancé alive before he was murdered. He drove away and he held up his left hand out of the steering, out of the window of the car, driving with his right and waved at me as he drove away. I'll never forget. I can see it right now in my mind's high. So, Mommy, were they face down or face up? You don't have a problem with that? I guess you're going to explain it away. Go ahead. So she had just been through a huge trauma. Don't have to explain that trauma to you. And while I can't explain why she's on a podcast explaining what happened to a podcast, I would say that

everything she's saying, it has to be seen through the lens of trauma. Now, my bigger concern, Nancy, is Idaho is a death penalty, a state that uses the fire and squad. So what I'm really concerned about is not so much guilt. I'm not worried about guilt if I'm representing her. I'm worried about is there any kind of mitigation that I might be able to put forth that keeps this lady alive if the state pursues the death penalty? Borkhart, while you're at it, can I get you to look at this photo?

I think this is the baby girl. What happened there? Marks on her face and potentially a bruise on the right side of her neck under the ear. Nancy, kids paint all the time. Come on. Come on. Kids paint all the time. It could be paint.

Kids also put him up. Do you even have children? Do you have children? Were you an absentee, dad? Because a child that can't even stand up yet, you're, it's, Picasso, all that is red paint. Seriously, and notice there's none on the clothing. How did that happen?

I'm going to push back on that. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. Kids, even who that can't stand about playing paint, they can also get hurt. It doesn't mean it's child abuse. You're going to need more than just supposition to get that in anyway. Hey, I didn't say it was child abuse.

You said that. You said that. You said child abuse. You were insinuating Nancy Grace. Oh, that's what I was thinking. Now you're a mind reader. Love it. See, this is where a defense attorneys go when they have nowhere to go. But her defense attorney had to latch onto this theory. Take a listen. She believes that caused death to be the vaccine. She's not a doctor. I'm not a doctor, but the doctors I've consulted say that it's a vaccine-related death. There's no way that this

happened, the way the prosecution has made it seem. If a mom was intending to kill her kids, why would she be taking them to the doctor? You can die to cucumber because there's no defense attorney. There's no one's asking critical questions. They were looking at it being a vaccine death, and that's still what I believe it to be. You think it is? Yeah. And what reasons you have to believe that?

Well, the medical experts, I'm not a medical expert, but the medical experts I have go through a series of looking at when they had different complications. Really? Is that so? that's from our friends at K-I-V-I-N-K-T-V-B, the defense attorney taking to the airwaves to advance the defense theory, possibly tainting the jury pool. But you know what? Go ahead. I'd be mad if you didn't. That's Shaw's defense attorney, Joe Felicity, speaking out. The reason he has grabbed the bone and is running with it, because he's, he's, got nowhere else to go. Whose fault is that? Mommy's fault because she goes on this anti-vax

podcast, Children's Health Defense and lays it out. Listen. Your children at 18 months were perfectly healthy, healthy, happy children until those three shots. Yes. Yeah. That you warn the pediatrician not to give the flu shot because of your history of illnesses after it. Yeah. That's from the Children's Health Defense podcast. Reminder, Andre Shaw, as we go to air tonight, is innocent under the law. How were Dallas and Tyson on that day before they got those shots, were they well?

Yeah, they were just as normal, perfect, happy little babies. So they had these three shots, the hepe, the D-CHAP, and the flu shot, despite your concerns. and you took them home and described what happened after that. They were okay. I think they took a nap when we got home because they seemed tired. But for the rest of the evening, it was, you know, business as usual. That is from Children's Health Defense. And I want you to watch it one more time and observe mommy's nonverbal communication.

Your children at 18 months were perfectly healthy, healthy, happy children until those three shots. Yes. That you warn the pediatrician not to give the flu shot because of your history of illnesses after it. Yeah. How were Dallas and Tyson on that day? Before they got those shots, were they well?

Yeah, they were just as normal, perfect, happy little babies. So they had these three shots, the hepe, the D-CHAP, and the flu shot, despite your concerns. and you took them home and described what happened after that. They were okay. I think they took a nap when we got home because they seemed tired. But for the rest of the evening, it was, you know, business as usual. I am certainly no expert at nonverbal communications.

That's from Children's Health Defense to Dr. Leslie Dobson joining us tonight. If you look at what is happening, okay, the hand covering the face, The husband now supporting her during the critical moment of discussion about what caused the death by rubbing her back, supporting her. Now, keep watching Dr. Leslie because she gets to a point, oh, right there, looking away, looking away, which is very, very probative, according to many, many nonverbal expert, nonverbal communication experts. It's way in, Dr. Leslie. Correct. She's not mourning the loss of her children. She's lying.

And we can see that through her covering her face, her biting her lip. She's using her eyebrows oddly. It's not in line with what she's actually talking about. And she certainly doesn't look sad that her children are gone. So I think it's this slow fabrication of a story. And she's already kind of screwed up what happened in her initial narrative. So now trying to lie upon a lie is getting confusing, and now we're lying about vaccines and the cause. And she's probably also terrified that they're going to get caught.

Speaking of suffocation, Vanessa, explain to me the condition of the children's bodies when they were found by L.E. law enforcement. They both appeared that they had been gone a while, is what they stated. They were both full to the touch. They both were in rigor. And it was their estimation that they had been, that they had passed away, most likely hours before that. Hours, hours before that.

Joining us, Dr. Kendall Crowns, chief medical examiner, Terrant County. I want to talk to you about the fact that we have been told, let me follow up with this real quick, Dr. Crowns. Dave Mack, I understood that they were blue in the face or the lips. What do you know? That's what we're finding out, Nancy, is that they were, they were blue in the face and in the lips. And, you know, as the mother mentioned, they were stiff.

They were cold to the touch. The mother is the one that suggested rigor mortis had sat in. So there's a lot going on in a, you know, a very protective period of time when you start thinking about these children, according to mom, had been not feeling well ever since they got that vaccination days earlier. and it's 1145 in the morning when they call 911, Nancy. I don't know what the regular nap routine for those children, but children in 18 months, you're going to be checking on them more than two or three hours, especially when they're sick.

So there's a lot going on in this that confuses me as a parent, as somebody who's been around small children who are sick. What would that mean, Dr. Kendall Crowns, if the baby's lips or face were, blue or blue tinged. Blue, blue tinge means they're not getting any oxygen and the color of the red blood when it's oxygenated, it's red, gives you your rosy cheeks, your red lips, etc. And when the oxygen is gone, your blood kind of gets a purplish blue coloration, which is

gives you the pallor or whitishness of the face, the blueness of lips. When they're saying that the children were blue and colored, lips were blue, that means the child had no oxygen going on in their body, and they had been dead for a while. Now, I don't understand if there is a connection between the vaccines and loss of oxygenation to the body. Could we be clear about the statistics relating to deaths following childhood vaccinations, Dr. Kendall Crowns? Certainly.

So in 26 years, of doing autopsies, I have not seen one instance of a child dying from routine vaccinations. Never have done an autopsy on a child that died from a vaccination. Statistically, it's a one in a million situation where a child might die. There might be an anaphylactic reaction, which means an allergic reaction. The child gets the vaccine and then has an allergy to it and then begins developing a fever, starts having trouble breathing, et cetera, et cetera. This will happen either upon the moment the vaccine occurs or within the first 24 hours,

especially with the vaccines we're talking about, hepatitis A, D-Tap, which is diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis, as well as influenza. These are all vaccines that are basically dead organisms that are injected. And so you don't see the anaphylactic reactions. Usually you don't get the reaction to the vaccine. where you feel sick afterward. They're very safe, and you should always get your vaccines because it's much worse to die from diphtheria tetanosa protresses.

Listen, and you're there. For heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage! And breathtaking triumph. 2026 FIFA World Cup. The knockout stage. Every match, every moment. Listen on TSN Radio.

Join the globe. On the road to the July 19th final. 2026 FIFA World Cup. Stream it all live on TSN Radio. Available on IHeard Radio. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Boise News reports the national MMR, that's Mops, Maisels, Rubella vaccine, I think.

Coverage by kindergartens in the U.S. is 92% of the children get the MMR vaccine. In Idaho, the rate is only 78%. That is the lowest in the country. Interesting. It's caused quite a controversy in Idaho, and I'm wondering if it will be argued that she's using that controversy as a defense.

very curious indeed. Now, I want you to hear more of what Mommy leaked on a podcast, Children's Health Defense podcast. So the doctor came in? And he assessed them a little bit himself, just kind of touched their faces under their neck, looked at their mouth, and then he said, he almost seemed like he didn't know what was going on. And then I had brought up that they had shots the day prior and what shots they were.

And that's when he went, oh, that could very much so be a bad reaction to the vaccinations they had yesterday. From Children Health Defense, okay, there you go. So to you, Franz Borchartz, one of the first witnesses the state's going to call is that doctor that said, oh, this is a bad reaction to vaccines because I bet you money that the doctor did not say that. Well, that's going to be a problem. I'm hoping she can find an expert. You're not helping her at all. Aren't you the defense attorney?

Hold on. Let me check your bio. Yeah, it says defense attorney. I'm assuming I'm going to find an expert that's going to align with the vaccination sentiment. I'm also assuming that during voir dire, Nancy, I'm going to find some anti-vaxxers since this state, apparently hates vaccinations. So if I have an expert, I'm going to have to lean in on that. I mean, she does not help herself.

I got to live with that. And heaven forbid, she tried to testify, which if I'm representing her, she's not going to do. But I've got to get an expert. The end of the day is I need somebody that's going to say it's possible. And if it's possible, it might be a reasonable. I love the way you just did that. I love what you did right there. I asked you about the doctor who said, oh, yeah, this is definitely.

result of vaccine being brought on to say, I never said that. And you immediately went, I'm getting an expert on antivax. I like the way you did that. Okay, I'm going to let you think about what you just did. And I want to point out another inconsistency because she just said they had the shot the day prior. And the doctor then said, oh, then this is vaccine related. But out to you, Vanessa Walsh, unmasked true crime, isn't it true that Mommy has joined in a lawsuit with the children health defense formerly led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.? The two of them have filed a lawsuit against the American Academy of Pediatrics for, quote, defrauding families about the safety of vaccine. They claim the twins died.

quote, quote, eight days after getting their 18-month vaccines. Whoopsy. Isn't that true, Vanessa? Nancy, that's correct. In February, she became a plaintiff and a federal lawsuit filed against the American Academy of Pediatrics, and in that suit, she does claim with the vaccines for the cause of the twins' deaths. I do want to mention she also does ask for monetary damages and attorney's fees. So while we don't No. But, but, but, but, stop, screeching halt.

Did you say mommy is suing for money? Suing the American Academy of Pediatrics? What is, I mean, I know there's a lawsuit. She's teamed up with RFK's old children health defense. And I'm not, this is not about politics. Don't care. And they're suing for money. They're not suing for justice.

How much money does Mommy want? There's no specified amount. in the lawsuit, but she does ask for monetary damages and attorney's fees in there. Yeah. Claudia King joining me, former law enforcement officer and star of No Contest Podcasts and Strong Enough, they didn't name a money amount because that would look bad on cross-examination for me to get a hold of them and go, isn't it true? You're demanding $10 million from the American.

Pediatrics Academy over this, you want money, right? That would look bad because it is bad. Reminder, Andre Shaw, as we go to air tonight, is innocent under the law. It's so bad. And this suspect is a law enforcement dream, Nancy, with all the statements that she's given on the podcast and now this lawsuit where there's no specification for damages or money, but she's asking for money. I mean, this is the suspect that we would love to see every single time.

I mean, Claudia, they can't even keep their dates correct because she says on the podcast, uh-oh, Franz Borghardt is crying again. She says on the podcast, they died the day after they took the shots. And then this lawsuit, a legal filing that she's the plaintiff says, and I quote, The twins died eight days after receiving their 18-month vaccines. That's over a week off. And that's what makes this so ridiculous. And when you start telling lies like she's doing, I believe,

it is hard to keep them straight. And I know a defense attorney is going to say, oh, it's trauma. She's getting confused. But if she were truly in a traumatic state over the loss of her children, Why is she days later even doing this podcast? And I would love to know if she got any compensation for the podcast itself. I was kind of in disbelief that just so quickly, within a matter of 24 hours,

the kids have went from perfectly happy, go lucky, active babies to look. looking like they were dying. Rutt Row. Did Daddy just screw up to? That's from Children's Health Defense. To you, Frans, Borghardt, Daddy says the same thing. But the lawsuit they filed says that the babies died eight days.

He says it was so hard to believe that in 24 hours, they go from perfectly happy, go lucky active babies to looking like they were dying. Mm-hmm. I mean. Okay. See, we're also on the radio, so you can't just sit there and look perplexed. This happened. Now, deal with it.

That's your job. Not my job. You're the defense attorney. You're the one that's got to shovel the, you know what? Go ahead. Have fun. I am unfazed by the civil lawsuit. It is completely normal if you believe that someone killed your child that you would file

civil suit against them. And by the way, civil suits are only about money. So I'm unfazed about the money grab either. the discrepancy amongst the days, yeah, I'm going to have to deal with that. But at the end of the day, if the vaccine killed these two beautiful kids, it killed these two beautiful kids. And that's still reasonable well. Boy, you are going to have to do some jury loading, aren't you? Okay. Dr. Leslie Dobson, I hope you and Claudia are sitting down. Listen to this.

They have a newborn. They had a child born on June 25th. And she's, that the, newborn was born three weeks early, and so she's nursing and using bottle feeding. Now she's in the jail. Vanessa, she has another baby. Yes, Nancy. She gave birth to a baby girl on June 25th. And it's my understanding that the baby was premature and was in the NICU for one day. And her husband Daniel is currently caring for the new baby. Both Andrea Shaw and her husband are presumed innocent. Dave Mack, crime stories investigative reporter. Now, the babies had the vaccine. Mommy says they, quote, got sick and had to go to the ER right after the vaccines.

Then time passed and they were found dead. Do we have the timeline correct, Dave? You do. And Nancy, this is what Nathaniel, the father, was talking about, that the children were perfectly fine until they got the vaccinations. And within 24 hours of the vaccinations, they were sick. They had to be taken to the hospital. There was a follow-up call to the pediatrician later in the week.

And finally, eight days after the vaccination, that's when the children were found dead in the bed. Okay, that makes more sense of what the dad said. It seems as if another entity is going to be ginned up for a lawsuit. What do you want to say to the pediatrician who said it was going to take the vaccines when you asked him not to? In a non-angry way, I wish that she had. informed me more and was willing to inform me more and reassure us with even paperwork and facts to make us feel better about the vaccination and especially the flu shot where we had expressed our concern with their father's side of the family having reactions to just the flu shot.

You know, it's interesting, Dr. Leslie Dobson, now she's laying blame on the doctor. I was worried about vaccines too, because when the twins were born, 18 years ago, there was so much noise about do vaccines cause autism, the vaccines cause all of these maladies. Yet I looked at the statistics at that time and I knew they needed vaccines. So we never did bundles like where you get three, four, five vaccines at once, this arm and that's no. We went back and back and back for a really long time until they got all of their. vaccines so they wouldn't be bundled. But it seems as if mommy is pointing in every direction. What do you make of that, Dr. Leslie? She's very detached. I mean, even when she says they went

down for a nap, I'm sorry, they went down? No, you put them down for a nap. You're their mother. So there's this detachment. And then when they bring up the pediatrician, she laughs. She laughs. oh great, we have someone else to pin this on. The affect does not match the severity of the situation. And she's not in shock either. We can't lean on that because she is still showing affect. She's not consistent with trauma. She's not consistent with shock. She's not consistent with postpartum psychosis, which should really be four weeks after birth. It doesn't make sense. And then she does have a TikTok where she's showing a miscarriage in 2022. and she actually shows the baby she miscarried.

So we have this whole theme of pay attention to me. Pay attention to me. I want to be important and I'm going to use babies to do it. Well, Dr. Leslie, you're right. And we have that TikTok, but I want to warn you, we're blurring out the fetus that was miscarried. Bottom line, Dr. Kendall Crowns, what would you expect if a child had had a, amazingly, two children have the very same reaction to vaccines and die. What would you have found?

Would they have been blue in the face? Well, first off, yes, they would have probably been blue in the face because it would be more than likely than not an anaphylactic reaction. The difficulty with this is that you have an eight-day time period from injection to death. So that's not anaphylaxis. But if it was anaphylaxis, what we would see at autopsy is swelling. of the tissues in the windpipe or the larynx and trachea. You would also see a hyper-expansion of lungs,

or the lungs are also swollen and full of air and fluid. And then microscopically, there would be these specific cells that we see in an allergic reaction known as eocinophils. And when we see those along with the swelling of the airway, swelling of the lungs, and even swelling of the tongue, you know you're dealing with an anaphylactic reaction. We can also do lab tests as well, looking for a specific marker called triptase in IgE. Both of these are seen in allergic reaction cases.

So all those findings together would then show you that they died from an allergy. Again, two of them dying from the exact same allergy is unlikely. And in an eight-day time period, it again is not even possible for that to be an allergic reaction. Adding insult to injury, Mommy is upset about how she was treated after her, both of her children are dead. How did the police treat you both? The most blatant way that I can put how I was treated was with the most disrespect that I have ever been talked to, treated. They constantly were trying to pin me and Andrea against each other, trying to get us to say, well, I think she did it or I think he did it.

The way they worded it to me, and especially the second day of interrogation, they said that it wasn't medical and that they figured asphyxiation and that I had supposedly had a postpartum overwhelming black out and done it to my children. Let me reiterate tonight that neither mommy, Andrea Shaw, or her husband have been found guilty of wrongdoing. The husband has not even been charged. Under our law, they are presumed innocent. And that presumption stays with them and cloaks them unless and until that presumption is pierced by evidence from the state sufficient to prove them guilty. beyond a reasonable doubt. If you know or think you know anything about the death of these two beautiful twins,

dial 208-642-6026. We remember American hero detective Andrew Rayner, NYPD, who passed away after 19 years on the force leaving behind grieving sister Regina, American hero detective, Andrea Rainer. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night.

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