Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Popstar Britney Spears has 'Dementia?' NO WAY!

Episode Date: May 5, 2021

The battle over Britney Spears conservatorship continues as her father claims his daughter has dementia. A judge recently ruled that Jamie Spears will continue to share control over his famous daughter's finances with Bessemer Trust. The financial institution was appointed co-conservator last year. It's another legal move by the entertainer to remove her father as conservator.Joining Nancy Grace today: Jeffrey H. Skatoff - Estate Planning Lawyer, Managing Partner, Clark Skatoff PA, Florida, Founder of probatestars.com Dr. Jenn Mann - Marriage and Family Therapist, Host 'Couples Therapy' and 'Family Therapy' on VH1, "The Dr. Jenn Show” on Sirius XM, Author: "The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Kids", Consultant for "A Minor Consideration" Helping Child Stars  Mike Hermann - Private Investigator, www.hermanninvestigations.com, Former Police Lieutenant, Contract Court Investigator focusing on Guardianships, Parental Rights Terminations, and Conservatorships REPORTER - Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Who doesn't love Britney Spears? I can't think of anybody that doesn't love Britney Spears, whether as a musketeer or as she rose to pop fame. So how come it is alleged right now that she has dementia? Isn't dementia for the elderly, not someone in the prime of their really a way for someone to get their mitts on her money? Take a listen to this. We're here to answer all of your questions. And the first main question that you guys have been asking me is basically,

when I'm in my living room, do I get dizzy when I'm spinning so much? Yes, I get extremely dizzy. I'm a dancer, so as long as I keep finding that spot usually in the end it's not as bad and the second question that you guys have been asking me is basically what does the red refrigerator mean on my Instagram honestly I I thought it was vintage. It was red and it was just really cool. Next question is, am I okay? Yes, I'm totally fine. I'm extremely happy. I have a beautiful home, beautiful children. I'm taking a break right now because I'm enjoying myself. Well, you were hearing Britney Spears' Instagram post just a few weeks ago, and she does not sound like she's suffering

from dementia to me. Now, of course, I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD. I've made that very, very clear. But that's who you have on juries, regular people, not psychiatrists and psychologists. No offense, Dr. Jen Mann, who's about to join us, but she doesn't sound demented. Now, I would never, as one of my three questions to ask her, ask, do you get dizzy when you spin around and around in your living room? That wouldn't occur to me, nor did it occur to me to ask about her fridge, but I would ask her about her mental wellbeing. And there's a reason for that. Take a listen to our friend, Sally Barry at 7 News Sunrise. Britney Spears' father Jamie is back in the headlines, this time suggesting the pop superstar has dementia. The

claims are made in a new documentary about the singer's controversial conservatorship, which has placed Jamie in control of her finances, business and personal life. Fans have disputed the explosive claim, saying it couldn't be possible for Spears to have dementia while releasing four albums as well as putting on high energy global tours and performing nearly 250 Las Vegas shows. Well that pretty much sums it up for me with me an all-star panel to make sense of what's happening, Dr. Jen Mann, therapist, host of Couples Therapy, Family Therapy on VH1, The Dr. Jen Show on SiriusXM, author of The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Kids. Wow, it goes on and on. Consultant for a Minor Consideration,

Helping Child Stars. Dr. Jen, I don't know if you have enough time to be with us today, so we'll make it brief. Mike Herman, private investigator at HermanInvestigations.com, former lieutenant in the police force, contract court investigator, focusing on, catch this, guardianships, parental right termination, and conservatorships. That's all he does. That's how he makes a living as a PI for cases just like this. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Alexis Tereschuk. But first, to our legal expert, Jeffrey H. Skatoff, joining us. He's a managing partner at Clark Skadoff, PA. And Skadoff, I think you should tell Clark, he needs to put his name behind yours, but that's just me. Jeff,

a 30-something-year-old superstar, did you hear the Aussie reporter claiming 250 Vegas shows, high-energy global tours, four albums, all while she has dementia? Well, that certainly sounds far-fetched to me. And indeed, one can have dementia and still not even be in a conservatorship as Jamie's in right now. The standard for having someone run your affairs in a conservatorship is that you

can't handle them yourself. And certainly people with some dementia or other minor medical issues would certainly still be able to do that without a conservator. So something else is obviously going on. I'm trying to actually, and I've got a JD, I'm trying to make sense of what you said. I think you said people that have mild dementia don't always need a conservator and it doesn't sound like she's got dementia to you. Of course, you're not an MD, right? Or are you? You may be. Certainly. I'm not an MD, but anybody with this level of high function, just listening to her speak,

all of the shows that she's done, she clearly doesn't have dementia. You know, another thing, jumping off what Jeff Skadoff just said, and this is one of his specialties, Mike Herman, PI, private investigator, and you can find Skadoff just said, and this is one of his specialties. Mike Herman, PI, private investigator, and you can find him at HermanInvestigations.com. That's Herman with two N's on the end. This is one of his specialties. Mike, I mean, you're the PI for cases just like this. You heard Skadoff.

How can you argue? I mean, this is making me lose confidence in anything the father, Jamie Spears, is saying, because this woman clearly does not have dementia. I mean, it really torpedoes his whole theory. Well, for people with dementia and conservatorships, there's a whole process to go through that you'd have to question them around to even try to verify whether that's in fact the case. Obviously, you'd want them seen by a medical professional and see if you'd get a capacity declaration to state that. Just because somebody says it doesn't make it true. And unfortunately, sometimes in conservatorships where families battle, you get a lot of false allegations like these that you have to look into and try to prove or disprove. Now to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Alexis Torres. You can find her at Twitter at Swimmy2009. Alexis, it's great to have you with us as always.

Let's just start at the beginning. But the headline right now, before we backtrack, is this. Take a listen to filmmaker Mobina Zarr. In the documentary, we show the court documents. The justification provided for Britney entering conservatorship is that she has early onset dementia, which of course is possible. But if you look at statistics in the US people under 40 account for less than five percent of cases for dementia so it seems extremely unlikely particularly given that this conservatorship started 13 years ago so at that point Britney was still in her 20s

so it's possible that she has dementia I think think it's extremely unlikely. And you have to ask the question, if she doesn't have dementia and that's the justification that's been given, then what is with Ireland AM, is making a really good point. So let's get out of what they think, Alexis Tereschuk, and you tell me what's happening right now. Well, Britney is battling her father in the conservatorship. She's been under this conservatorship for over a decade. And it started because she went crazy. And that is not a legal term. No, wait a minute. I've already asked Skate off this, but as I recall, you're a journalist, not a medical doctor, much less a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Yet you said Britney Spears went crazy. And I, having no leg to stand on, I have to say, I don't think she went crazy. I think she went through a very bad spot and she got connected with a lot of really bad players that were trying to use her in her life.

And she ended up sitting on the curb in a miniskirt and ripped stockings, crying with mascara running down her face. Now, I think she was overly judged by the public. And yes, there were other incidents where she got Baker acted. In other words, admitted to the hospital for observation. But I don't know that she went crazy, Alexis. She was calling up stores in Beverly Hills at four o'clock in the morning and telling the manager to come and open them so she could go shopping at four in the morning. Wait a minute, didn't Michael Jackson do that in Vegas and nobody said he was crazy? They thought he was eccentric.

Remember him shopping in all those Vegas stores, buying all that stuff he didn't need? Closing the stores down? And then returning it the next day. Elvis did it. Yeah, and then returning it the next day. Michael Jackson did it? So why is she crazy and they're not? All people whose lives tragically ended.

Elvis with a drug overdose, Michael Jackson. I'm not impressed, Alexis. But Britney has been stopped. So what has happened is Britney's family stepped in to stop this. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about Britney Spears. First point, everybody loves Britney Spears. She's been judged

harshly by the press, but now press aside, we are learning her father, Jamie Spears, who is a conservator for her massive, about a 60 plus million dollar empire, has claimed she has dementia. Okay. Alexis Teresha, you and I can go wrestle in the mud about whether she's crazy, but a lot of stars want to close down stores to shop. Sadly, the two examples I picked are both dead, but there are many, many other stars that do that. Hey, just yesterday, when's the last time you got a driver's license, Alexis Treschuk? It's been a while. A while. Okay. That's vague, but since we're not in a court of law, I can't pin you down. I bet you had to stand in line, didn't you? Yes. Okay. Well,

just yesterday, Gwyneth Paltrow, you know, goop. Gwyneth Paltrow somehow managed to jump the line. It showed a picture of like 80 people standing in line in the sun to get their driver's license. But she somehow managed to cut the line and have someone escort her through. So how is that any more crazy than Britney Spears asking a store to shut down so she can shop without the paparazzi three inches up her rear end. She's not crazy. Continue. So Britney's dad has a conservatorship over her. Now, what this means is she cannot really make any decisions about her money or things like buying three cars at one time or.

OK, right there. Did she buy three cars at one time? Yes. You know, have you seen her show? I sadly have not gotten to go see her show, but she works her rear end off. She's working hard for the money to steal a phrase, so why not buy three cars?

I mean, I feel like you're judging her, Alexis. I don't like anything you're saying. I love Britney Spears, but she was out of control because she had so many bad people around her. Everybody was taking advantage of her. Every single person that was involved in her life was spending her money, was having her just do wild things, things that she didn't even really want to be doing. Britney was not making music. She wasn't hanging out with her children. She didn't even really want to be doing. Brittany was not making music. She wasn't hanging out with her children. She didn't have custody of them.

She had nothing except these hanger-ons that were trying to take advantage of her that were with her at 4 o'clock in the morning. Okay, to Dr. Jen Mann, family therapist and author of the A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Children, and she works with a minor consideration, helping child stars. You know, Dr. Jen, I've heard a lot about how Britney Spears is, quote, crazy. Now, I do agree she had a psychotic break when she had her children at that incident, and she didn't want to give them back to the ex-Federline and she locked the doors and was threatening suicide, I believe. I would call that a psychotic break. But to label somebody

crazy is a whole nother can of worms. Dr. Jen, take a listen to this. These are our friends at CBS LA. Britney Spears wants to address the judge in her conservatorship case. That's right. During today's hearing, Spears' court-appointed attorney said that the pop star wants to address the judge in court. However, he did not say what the 39-year-old singer wants to say. The judge did not say if she would grant the request, but she did schedule a June 23rd follow-up hearing. Spears has been under a conservatorship since 2008. Her father, Jamie Spears, and the Bessemer Trust Company are the co-conservators of the Spears estate and share management of her business affairs. To Dr. Jen Mann, the reality is Britney Spears is not asking to end the conservatorship.

She admits to what some of what Alexis Tereshka reported, that she had wild spending habits, that some of her actions were a little out of control. The reality is she's not trying to kick out the conservatorship. She's simply asking to dump her father as her conservator. I don't think that's asking too much. Weigh in on what you see happening, Dr. Jen. Well, I think this whole dementia idea that's being brought up is very bizarre. And the only thing that I can make of it, and I think that your conservatorship expert can probably speak to this better than I can, is that, look, as a mental health expert, everything that we saw in 2008, and we've seen kind of little bits and spurts of sense,

you know, her inability to sleep, her mending sprees, her shaving her head, having a breakdown, you know, which you have acknowledged as well. All this sort of stuff that we saw seems a lot more along the lines of something bipolar, which the media has speculated for a very long time. Dr. Jen, aren't you digging a little deep into the barrel to go all the way back to 2008? Well, I'm not. And I'll tell you why. Because one of the things we look at in assessing mental health is a pattern of behavior. And if somebody does something from 2008, that is, that looks like a pattern of something along the lines of bipolar, and then they're doing it now, perhaps someone takes, stops taking their medication. And I'm

not saying that she's doing something now that indicates that. I don't think we have enough information. I think that she has been laying low. She has not been in the media as much, which I think is a very good thing for her mental health. But my point just being that perhaps a conservatorship might not look at bipolar since it is very treatable with medication, with therapy, as something that would prevent someone from managing their own estate. So they're coming up with this bipolar or this dementia idea because that's something that would prevent someone from managing their estate. But I'm not seeing any signs as someone who has been trained in assessing mental health issues and cognitive issues.

I'm not seeing anything publicly that indicates dementia. It just doesn't make sense. Guys, take a listen to Britney Spears choreographer Brian Friedman speaking to ITV. You should be rewarded the basic luxuries of life, like driving a car, having a phone to call your friends, being able to be in a room alone with someone like me. And I haven't been in a room alone with her since the early 2000s. Gosh, and have you tried to make contact? Because that must be quite difficult to actually just get in touch with her. Yeah, it's virtually impossible.

And we've worked together since. It's just been a different situation. There's always someone around, and you don't really get to have that intimate, personal friend time like we used to. You know, it almost sounds, Alexis Teresha, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, that she always has a, quote, minder with her. That doesn't sound like freedom to me. This is one person's opinion of it. She has a boyfriend that she is with all the time. There never seems to be a minder. The two of them are together. She has been posting pictures lately that she's with her son. She's really, she's such a cute mom. Like your kids are teenagers. Mine's a little bit younger,

but she said my kids had to have approval of these pictures that I put up on my social media because they are so concerned, which is, I think, just a cute, normal mom thing. She is trying to lead as normal of a life as possible. She's been on vacation. She, even during the pandemic, she went down to Louisiana to visit her family where she's from. She came back. She said, y'all, I've had to quarantine. I had to do everything that everyone else is doing. I mean, she is living a very low key lifestyle. Doesn't sound like she has dementia. She's speaking about I had to quarantine just like everybody else. And I can tell you what's going on while she hasn't.

Why she hasn't been performing lately is because she announced she was not performing again until Jamie Spears, her father, was removed from the conservatorship. Guys, take a listen to this from our friends at Crime Online. Britney Spears began entertaining at a very young age. At the tender age of eight, she auditions for the Mickey Mouse Club, but is rejected for being too young. At age 10, came an appearance on Star Search. Our current champion is going for win number two and sings to become next year's champion. Does that sound nice, gang?

Next year's champion. From Kentwood, Louisiana, here is 10-year-old Britney Spears. Spears wins the first round of competition, but loses the second. Spears auditions again for the Mickey Mouse Club at 11 and joins a cast that ultimately become household names. Actress Keri Russell, singer Christina Aguilera, and Justin Timberlake. When the Mickey Mouse Club is canceled, Spears is signed to Jive Records. In 1998, she records her debut album, Hit Me Baby One More Time.

The lead single debuts at number one on the Billboard 200. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With all that fame, right now, Britney Spears headed back to court to fight a conservatorship. Guys, in the last days, we learned that her conservator, her father, Jamie Spears, has made the unfathomable claim that she has dementia. Even when you hear her speaking now, there is no sign of dementia. Now, that is just a layperson's opinion. But take a listen to Britney Spears on Fame Media and the paparazzi. Have you gotten to the point where you see yourself as a role model to all these other

young girls out there that are looking up to you and looking up to what you say and do? Well, I mean, if they want to put me up on a pedestal like that, that's really sweet, and it's just that I'm human and I make mistakes just like everybody else, and I can just try and be a good person for me and for them as well. It's flattering, though, that if they view me as being that way. Do you get ever hypersensitive about what you're saying or doing on camera? Oh, no. So you're worried about what people are saying or doing on camera? Oh, no.

So they're worried about what people are going to say? No, not really. I mean, I can just be myself. And, you know, if they have a problem with that, then, you know, what can I do? Back to Jeffrey H. Skadoff, estate planning lawyer and expert in this field, joining us out of Florida. Jeffrey, we know that in just a matter of days, Britney Spears is going to be back in court. And we believe she may appear on her own behalf and ask the judge to remove her

father from the conservatorship. Now, I think that's a very good tactical decision, because if she tried to completely get rid of the conservatorship, that would be a bold move. But these are baby steps she's taking. How do you think the recently uncovered claim of dementia is going to help or hurt her father? He's really fighting to stay in control of her assets. Well, I think it's going to potentially harm his ability to stay on as a conservator if he's basically making up things or asserting things that aren't true. And in any event, even if she has some touch of dementia, which there's no evidence for, why would a father be saying this publicly? That would harm his daughter, not help her in any way. So I think this could actually backfire on him.

So what happens in a hearing like this, Jeff? Well, normally the lawyers will go to court and make whatever arguments they want. Sometimes the conservatee or the ward Brittany in this case can come to court and talk directly to the judge to explain what's bothering you or what you want, and then the judge can take that into consideration. But most importantly, it allows the judge to directly ask her questions that she answers without filtering by lawyers or other handlers. So the judge can get a very good sense of what. I think I lost Jeff, if you could get his satellite back. But in the meantime, guys, I want you to listen to our cut five.

This is our friend Amy Robach at GMA. The court hearing comes as a new documentary framing Britney Spears takes a closer look at her conservatorship, which was put in place more than a decade ago, following what appeared to be a public meltdown, bitter divorce and custody battle and two hospitalizations. The documentary also follows her loyal army of fans in the Free Britney movement, a group which claims the conservatorship is being used to control her against her will. If I'm wrong and one day Britney does come out and tells us that we're wrong and leave her alone, we will do just that. Free Britney!

On Thursday, some showing up outside court. If I could say something to Britney Spears, I would say, Britney, we're here to support you. Earlier this week, Spears tweeting, each person has their story and their take on other people's stories. Remember, no matter what we think we know about a person's life, it is nothing compared to the actual person living behind the lens. Wow. Well said. So, Alexis Terescha at CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter, the Free Britney movement has really brought all of these issues to a head, resulting in a courtroom showdown looming right now. Exactly. And Britney herself is actually going to appear in court

and speak to the judge for the first time in years. And it may even be open to the public, which again would be the first time. Now, Brittany has been to court. I've seen her in court. You've seen her in court. But this is going to be the first time she's going to speak to the judge in an open court. Let me figure this out. To Mike Herman, private investigator whose specialty is conservatorships and guardianships. Mike, how do you how would you as a P.I. go about disproving claims that Britney Spears has dementia? Well, the overall for the conservatorship, we have to remember at the end of the day, it's to protect her both financially and personally well-being. I did see recently that I believe her attorney has made a motion to open it up a little more public, which would actually allow everybody to see what is going on. Again, you make the allegation she has dementia, but a medical doctor would have to

make, would have to agree with that and they'd have to do a full analysis of it. And you know, to you, Dr. Jen Mann, you can find her on Family Therapy, VH1, the Dr. Jen Show Series XM. How do you go about proving someone has dementia as opposed to, as you suggested, bipolar? Well, there's a whole list of medical, you know, kind of bullet point, the checklist that doctors go through to figure out if someone has dementia. And the same thing with mental health issues. Anytime you diagnose someone, there is a whole list in psychology. There's what's called the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, which is basically the guidebook that therapists like me use in order to give someone a diagnosis. So it's really kind of going through that checklist and saying, okay, does she have this or not?

Does she qualify for this disorder? But dementia just, again, like we've all been saying, it just seems very far fetched. And it just it it seems like there's a whole other reason that that is being brought up. And I suspect it has to do with the conservatorship more than an accurate diagnosis. Guys, take a listen to our cut seven. This is Samantha Stark, director of Framing Britney Spears. It's very confusing to us because what we do know about Jamie is that when she, when Brittany was growing up, he struggled with alcoholism. We know he went to rehab. We know he had had trouble managing money and filed for bankruptcy.

He and Lynn together. And it really, you really don't see that much of him in Brittany's life until this conservatorship happened. And, you know, people a lot of the times are asking me, why was Jamie chosen over Lynn, Brittany's mother? Brittany's mother, as far as we know, didn't apply to be a conservator. So Jamie was chosen. We also know that there were other people involved with this. It's not her father by himself. There, you know, there's lawyers, there's business managers, there's other people. So it's really unclear how he became the person, you know, the face of this. Interesting. To Alexis Tereschuk, speaking of Britney Spears' mother,

where is she in all this? Lynn has been pretty low key. She hasn't been around. She has not been spending time with Britney or the children. She's been, I believe, in Louisiana where Brittany's sister and brother both live. But she has not been that involved in Brittany's life in a very long time. Why? They used to be very close. I think that Brittany felt from past interviews and past things that she had said that Lynn didn't really help her out when she was struggling with her dad and struggling with everything over a decade ago. And they just became estranged. What can you tell me about, do you remember the guy that introduced himself into

Brittany's life when everything went haywire? The Sam Lufty, I think was his name. Did her mother introduce Lufty into her life? She did. Sam Lutfi met, he is a person who had, was such a bad influence on Britney Spears. Say that again. He met her mom. He told Lynn he had a diamond business and he was going to have Lynn invest in it. You know, they'd made money from Britney, parents of children, really famous children do. And Lynn was going to invest in a diamond company and make millions. Instead, he gets involved with Britney and all of the bad things that happened with Britney happened when he was involved. And so now a judge has ruled that Sam cannot be anywhere near Britney. He's not even allowed to speak about her, tweet about her, anything, because he is so detrimental to her.

And this started when Lynn introduced him to her. So this is a over 10-year problem that Brittany had with her mom. Isn't it true that Lufty was her main confidant and her wingman, her running buddy, at the time she was originally placed in the conservatorship. And many people blame his Spangali-like influence on Britney Spears for a lot of her problems, Alexis. Yeah, 100%. He was the one that was with her when the big night when Britney was not returned. She has two children with Kevin Federline, two little boys, or teenagers now. But she, you know she had a custody arrangement and was supposed to return the kids at, say, 6 o'clock at night and didn't.

Refused to return them and locked herself in a bathroom with one of them. Well, Sam Lutfi was there the whole time. This is the night that the police came, the paramedics came. To get the boys. Well, also, she felt threatened that they were taking her boys and let me just tell you what the new york times said how they described lufty quote he's known for attaching himself to celebrities often at vulnerable moments for them uh he claimed to be her new manager but her family said that he was actually more of a catalyst for her downfall.

Now, various men have come in and out of her life, and seemingly her life has taken a lot of, let me just say, hairpin turns under the influence of other guys. Now, another man, her father, is fighting tooth and nail to keep control of her empire. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take a listen to our cut number eight. This is Samantha Stark from Framing Britney Spears. She was in charge of her personal life, meaning, you know, her medical care, like making decisions about her medical care. What who comes to visit her, you know, if she can have security 24 hours a day. And that recently he stepped down from that.

And now she has a temporary conservator in charge of her person but he is still right in charge of her estate which means you know Brittany can't sign checks she can't enter into business deals herself every single thing she buys has to be listed and monitored by the court so we saw these court records that showed you know 575 at Target 15 at15 at Starbucks, every single thing she spends. And this is someone making millions of dollars. So, you know, Lynn Spears recently, she has to file as an interested party because she's not technically part of the conservatorship. But recently she has hired lawyers and had them come to court, and she also feels like her ex-husband should step down.

Well, this would be my argument to the judge. If I were representing Britney Spears, take a listen to our cut six. Again, Samantha Stark. You know, it's really difficult because so many of the court records are sealed. A lot of them also include medical records, which are always sealed. The central mystery of our film really is how could somebody make millions of dollars performing in Vegas, headlining her own show, appearing on The X Factor and making albums and also qualify for this layer of protection, which is usually meant for people who are incapable of making decisions in their own best interest. So it's very mysterious and we don't know what the legal reasoning is behind it because all the records are sealed.

To Jeffrey H. Skadoff, a renowned lawyer joining us out of Florida. Jeff, weigh in. I mean, how can she be performing, producing, hosting the way she is and be unable to control her affairs? I think it's clear at this point, having been in the guardianship for since 2008, that she wants to stay inside the guardianship to reduce the stress in her life and to allow her to do the things that she wants to do without having to worry about the things that she doesn't want to worry about anymore. I don't know what you're saying. The reason that she's still in the conservatorship is she hasn't asked that it be terminated. And that's because she wants to stay in the conservatorship so she doesn't have to handle the stress. She may be asking to keep the she may be not contesting the conservatorship because she doesn't want to go so far with the judge, the judge throws her out of court. She may be taking baby steps to

achieve her end of ultimately getting out from under the conservatorship, starting with getting rid of Jamie Spears. That's what she wants. But I think ultimately she wants out of the entire conservatorship control of her assets. But I'll play along with you, Skadoff. Go ahead. So if she wanted to get out, she could come to court and say, I'm fine. You can have me examined by whatever medical experts you want. And it's based on how she can talk and handle herself. She probably could get out if that's really what she wants. But I believe that she wants to stay in the conservatorship to have basically people appointed

by the court to help her run her life, especially her business empire. So she doesn't have to do it herself. And I think it puts her in a better place from her mental health, not having to worry about the stress of running what is a giant business empire. And I think she's really right about that father, because she's not just Britney Spears. She is an industry, the Britney Spears industry, that she really is the mule in this scenario, carrying everybody else on her back. So again, Mike Herman, you're the private investigator. How do you go about proving she is stable and she does not need Spears her father as her conservator well i have seen conservatorships where they are just the estate where people make a lot of money but they're just very impulsive what they're buying and how they spend it look at johnny depp hey hold on there you go alexis teres chuck he's not dead so he spends how much? Like $50,000 a month on wine?

All, I mean, it's just insane spending. And nobody's trying to put a conservatorship on him. He's another bad example. What? He's another bad example. So? He beat up his wife. You could say maybe I went crazy when I bought a trampoline or put a badminton set in the front yard.

I don't know. It all depends. It's her money. If she wants to buy three cars, do what I do that? No. When she is homeless. She's not homeless. When she spends all of her money erratically, people are going to say, why didn't anybody help her?

I'm sorry, but that's her business. She's allowed to buy whatever she wants. That's her business to fritter away her income or not. She's a grown woman. You do know, Alexis, that we women do have the right to vote and get loans and buy houses in our own names now. Did you know that? Why not her? I believe that they're just trying to protect her assets. I don't think that she is restricted. You know, if you look, she has to embarrassingly enough for her. Part of the conservatorship is she has to submit her spending. Somebody, you know, collects it for her. She doesn't fill it out. But, you know, she has free reign. She spends forty thousand dollars a year at Target. She shops online. She really can buy anything she wants.

If I was making $60 million, I'd be spending more than that at Target. Have you been to Target lately? There's a lot of good stuff there. Okay, Dr. Gin Man, help me. Apparently, Alexis Tereschuk thinks Britney Spears needs to be in a conservatorship.

Maybe she does, but that, financially, but that is her decision to make is she wants someone holding the purse strings. I mean, this woman is the one making the living so everybody else can get paid, including her father. I do think that this goes back to kind of what we were talking about with 2008. And the reason why I think it does is because there was evidence of some bipolar disorder or something related. And one of the symptoms of bipolar is massive spending spree. And I suspect that Brittany may be just as nervous that she may get out of control with her spending as others around her. Because like we've talked about,

she's not saying, I don't want conservatorship. She's just saying, I don't want my dad to be in charge of it. So that leads me to believe that she may feel uncomfortable or nervous about her own ability to control her impulse. You know, Jeff Skadoff, guide us here. So often we see, for instance, former child stars or really a lot of stars, and they always get a picture of them pushing around a grocery cart on the streets of L.A. with all their belongings in it. They're homeless. Of course, nobody wants that to happen to Britney Spears. But certainly there's got to be a middle ground here.

What would be an alternative, Jeff? Well, that's one of the problems that we face in this area, which is there really isn't a middle ground. Either you've got your full rights. Don't give me problems. Give me solutions, Skadoff. We wish we had some solutions because there is really no solution to deal with somebody who is partially able to handle their affairs. And that's a gaping hole in the system. And I don't know that that can ever be fixed because of the concern about making sure people have their own liberty to do what they want. So you're either in the conservatorship or you're not. How about a court appointed business manager for her?

I think that's the same thing as a conservatorship. But but it's but Britney has both. Actually, she has three conservators. She's got two of her property, her estate, and she's got a different conservator for herself in her personal capacity. And that person can control her living arrangement and who she's allowed to socialize with. I think that she wants to stay in this arrangement so that she has somebody who can tell other people trying to bother her, influence her, do things that she doesn't want, essentially talk to the conservator. It's out of my hands. It reduces the stress on her. Jeff Skadoff, do you ever, when you face a court battle, throw out arguments you know aren't going

to work, such as Britney Spears has dementia, because it will torpedo the rest of your legitimate case? You know, that's an interesting point. Don't let a bad argument harm your actual good arguments. So making bad arguments or saying things that you can't prove is almost always a very bad idea. I've done it a million times going to court when I would have a witness that had really good testimony that would help me prove a case, but that witness had so many credibility problems, they'd be ruined on cross, and it would taint the rest of my case. Sometimes, you know, you've got to make a hard decision like that.

But this cat's out of the bag. The cow's out of the barn. We know that Jamie Spears has alleged Britney Spears has dementia. Well, he didn't seem to be singing that song when she was up on the stage performing, paying his paycheck. We wait till this goes to court and justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.