Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Popular DJ Kidnaps Tot? Hero Tries to Stop Him

Episode Date: April 24, 2019

A nightmare scenario for any parent, as a man tries to grab a toddler and pull him away from his mother on a busy street. The alleged kidnapper, a well-known DJ.Nancy interviews Adam Walker, the hero who chased him down and made a citizens arrest.Nancy's expert panel also weighs in:Dr. Bethany Marshall: Psychoanalyst and family therapistJohn Lemley: Crimeonline.com Investigative ReporterSteven Lampley: former detective Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. That's probably a combination of adrenaline and probably a little bit of fatherly instinct too. Adam Walker says it happened so fast. On Friday, he and his wife Sabrina were walking with their son, Leo, near 17th and Castro Streets when they passed a mother with her young son. Shortly after we walked by her, we heard her screaming, yelling for police, for help, saying that someone had taken her child. Police say 34-year-old Roscoe Holyoak grabbed the two-year-old child and started running but suddenly stopped. He put the toddler down and he smiled at everybody and then started sprinting. Without really thinking much about

it I just took off running after him. Wow can you imagine being out with your toddler? How many times was I out and about with the twins at barely able to hold, keep one in check and the other one would run away. I was constantly running with little Lucy under my arm, like a football chasing John David or vice versa. I actually practiced it. I would have to practice running with two 20-pound weights in my hands, just running as fast as I could, except the weights didn't wiggle the way the twins would. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Can you imagine this mom out and about with her tot boy who's walking along beside her is grabbed. Grabbed as a guy walks by and picks the boy up, wraps his arms around the boy's rear end, throws a smile back at the mom, and takes off running. Out to

John Limley, CrimeOnLine.com investigative reporter. What happened, John? Nancy, according to witnesses, this mother and her toddler were walking hand in hand. And this is in the busy Castro District in San Francisco on a Friday. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Now, you know, John Limley, my sister lives out in the Saratoga area. It's just absolutely breathtaking beautiful no offense dr bethany marshall but it's like it's a different state from la it's just gorgeous there's the redwood trees there there's san francisco bay it's like heaven on earth now explain to me you said it's the very busy Castro area. What is that, a tourist area?

It is a very famous shopping area, lots of shops, restaurants, cafes and such, old record stores and such. It's usually a diverse crowd of people there in the Castro district. And it's one of those destinations where when people go to San Francisco, one of the places. Now, where is that in relation to Lombard Street? Is that even close? It is not too terribly. Or the pier? Not too terribly far away.

I'm trying to think exactly in the way of blocks and miles how far away. Why was the mom there? Was she a tourist or was she just out walking with her baby? That part has not been revealed from police. We do also, very interestingly, you were talking about training for running with the twins. This woman was doing double duty as well. She was also carrying an infant in a front pack while she was holding the hand

of her toddler yeah i understand that she was pushing a stroller she had one infant in like um a baby bjorn and you know the things that attach to you that's the way i would carry the twins and i mastered carrying both of them in two separate baby borns at the same time and the little boy the tot boy was trailing along behind her like following her maybe holding her hand and the mom was putting her mobile phone in her pocket which I talk about Jackie Jackie listen to listen to this. Do not be distracted. When you're out and about, do not fumble with your cell phone. Now, I'm not saying she was fumbled. She may have called somebody and was putting the phone away,

and that's when everything happened. She was trying to put her cell phone back in her pocket and turns around and sees this perv who turns out to be a very popular DJ running off with her child. So, John Lindley, what happens? Well, this man just suddenly appears. He begins tugging at the little boy, trying to get him out of her mother's arms. And unsurprisingly, as we've already heard, the mother began to scream for help from police, from anyone. But no matter how long or how loud, loudly she yelled or how tightly she held on to the boy, the man would not let go of her son.

And he took off with the child and the little boy's mother chased the man. Screaming her head off. And she's trying to chase him with the other baby strapped to her. Oh, and you know, guys, I'm looking at the photo of who we think the suspect is. He looks like a millennial. Not to stereotype Dr. Bethany Marshall. Don't go off the deep end with me on this. But, you know, I guess some people would think he's handsome.

I, of course, do not because I know he's a potential suspect. He's got kind of light brown hair cropped close and a short haircut. The sides look a little bit shaved, but not totally at the side. He's got a well-manicured beard close to his face, a well-manicured mustache. And he's in a pose like he's having a deep thought. He is a very popular DJ. So here, imagine in this tourist area crowded nobody's helping her the mom leaves a stroller and takes off running through the crowd with a baby strapped

to her enter the hero joining me right now Adam Man, am I glad we tracked you down, Adam Walker. I'm pleased to meet you over the airwaves. I hope to meet you in the flesh someday. I've got to hear the whole thing, what happened. Yeah, so from my perspective, I was just walking down the street with my wife and my four-year-old son. Is it true you're a dentist? I am a dentist, yes. That is correct.

I'm never going to mock dentists again as long as I live, Jackie, as you are my witness. It's out of fear. And the last time I went to the dentist, I was sitting there and he went, you know, I was on one of your juries, right? I'm like, uh-huh. I didn't actually, but now I remember it was a bank robbery and I actually had a convicted bank robber on the jury unbeknownst to me. And as I was looking at him, I was was wondering was he the bank robber slash dentist he was not let me say but guys I have a hero dentist which shatters all of our myths about dentists okay back to you Adam sorry tell me the whole thing no worries so so yes I was walking down the street

with my wife and my four-year-old son, and we turned the corner. And as soon as we turned the corner, the first thing we noticed was this young mother. You know, she looked busy. She had her infant child strapped to her chest. She was pushing an empty stroller while holding on to the hand of her, her toddler. And, um, and shortly after we passed her, um, we kind of heard a, you know, a scream for help. Um, you know, initially it started off as more of a, you know, what are you doing? And then, you know, shortly thereafter we saw a man who, um, who was walking very quickly by us, right next to us, holding on to that little toddler.

And as he was walking by, we noticed that the mom was still holding on to the toddler's arm. So they kind of got into sort of a struggle kind of right in front of us. And a second later, he set the toddler down and kind of looked in the general direction of where we were. You know, we were kind of in a crowd. There was a busy restaurant. You know, we were right on the sidewalk there. A lot of people were kind of looking at this point. And so he kind of looked at everyone, sort of gave this brief smile, and then took off running.

Okay, the smile is really bothering me. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, I mean, to look at this guy, I mean, okay, true, he is wearing kind of a weird shirt with kind of a fake first stole over his shoulders in this other picture I'm looking at. But if you just saw his head, you would think he looks kind of like a model, actually. And he's a very popular DJ, Dr. Bethany Marshall, the smile. You're running away with this

lady's little boy. And you pause to flash a million dollar smile at everybody before you take off. Well, we think of child abduction as an act of desperation fueled by perversion, a sexual frenzy, a wish to dominate and control the child. But in this case, it seems also triumphant, like it's a triumphal smile. Like now he has the child, he has the goods. He feels that he has gained control in the upper hand in the situation. And so he smiles. This guy is enjoying this. This is not a dark, frenzied act in his mind. This is the moment of joy. He has the prize and he's headed off with it.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We put the toddler down and he smiled at everybody and then started sprinting. Without really thinking much about it, I just took off running after him. Walker chased the suspect for several blocks. Once the man saw that he was kind of cornered, he just gave up, put his hands in the air and at that point I went and grabbed him and, you know, walked him over to the sidewalk. Neighbors called 911. Holyoak from East Victoria Park, Australia was arrested on suspicion of kidnapping. Every parent's nightmare. It's a horrible situation. Horrible. Neighbors reacted to the scary news. Sabrina is pretty proud of her brave husband. I'm so proud of him and I just I'm happy that that person was caught that no one was hurt. As a parent Adam says he didn't

think twice about chasing down the suspect. In that situation you don't really think much about it you just kind of act with your heart not so much with your head. Right there in broad daylight. Out and about when her tot boy, who's walking along beside her, is grabbed. Grabbed as a guy walks by and picks the boy up, wraps his arms around the boy's rear end, throws a smile back at the mom, and takes off running. Stephen Lampley, detective. You can find him at StephenLampley.com. And with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, very well-known California psychoanalyst. You can find her at DrBethanyMarshall.com.

John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and our superstar today, Adam Walker, a hero who chased on foot this guy, this Roscoe Holyoke DJ. Stephen Lampley, I keep saying broad daylight like crimes don't happen in broad daylight. They don't really as often as under the cover of darkness or in secret. You know, a lot of crimes go down behind closed doors or in secret. And it takes a different kind of a mind to commit a crime in broad open daylight. Steve Lampley? Well, Nancy, when you have a pedophile, I spent a number of months working undercover as a 14-year-old girl. And you and I both know, or at least the studies show, depending on who you read, pedophilia is not a condition that can be successfully treated.

In other words, it's not something that will ever go away. This gentleman didn't care. You know, they typically don't care. They will do whatever is necessary in order to satisfy their urges. Well, to Adam Walker, our hero joining us today, who takes off, leaves his own wife and child safe, I might add, and takes off when he sees this mom in distress with a baby strapped to her chest and a guy kidnapping her baby. Now let me tell you a little bit about the alleged suspect Roscoe Holyoak. Now it's true he has no criminal record but this is not the first time the highly popular DJ has run into problems with the law. It has been reported that police responded to an incident the previous February where he was found at an apartment complex asking permission to play with a stranger's child. The police say they

interviewed him and he had asked to come inside someone else's apartment to play with a baby. The resident refused to let him in, but then Holyoak remains outside the door. So I guess the mom wanted to know why Holyoke wanted to see the baby. He made a comment of sorts that resulted in a group of neighbors chasing him down the street and restraining him until the cops get there. I wonder what in the hay he said for this, to raise an alarm for this mom to scream and the neighbors start chasing him and restrain him. Now, this is reportedly. Now, we also know he was trying to advance his music career. He is known as DJ Roski, very well-known DJ. And in addition to DJing, he was trying to further his music career. So that's who we think the perp is.

Adam Walker, you chased him. So you see this happening. What happens? What instinct kicked in and what did you do? You know, it's all a little bit of a blur, you know, everything that kind of led up to be taken off. But, you know, shortly after he put the child down and did that brief smile and took off running, you know, people started saying,

Hey, someone, someone get that guy, you know, like, and, and in my own mind, you know, part of me was thinking, well, you know, he didn't take the child, but also try to take a child. And that guy doesn't deserve to be on the streets. So, so a second went by and I just took off running and, um, chasing down the street, uh, a couple blocks. And, um, and I just took off running and chased him down the street a couple blocks. Initially, I thought I was running just by myself, but once I got about halfway down the street, I realized there was another man running alongside me, kind of more on the sidewalk. I was taken off right down the middle of the street where he was. So we took a left on the, the nearest cross

street, headed down that street. And as we were running, I started shouting out to people ahead of us saying, Hey, you know, this man tried to take a child, you know, let's, let's stop him. And, and so it was at that point that the, the men at the, towards the end of the street, once they had turned around and were engaged in the process, Mr. Holyoak at that point kind of realized he was surrounded. And he gave up, put his hands up in the air, and stopped running. And that's when I grabbed onto him and walked him over to the sidewalk and pushed him up against the side of the wall, you know, told him to put his hands in the air and get down on his knees. And we held him there until the police came. PUSHED HER UP AGAINST THE SIDE OF THE WALL, TOLD HIM TO PUT HIS HANDS IN THE AIR AND GET DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND WE HELD HIM THERE UNTIL THE POLICE CAME.

HE PUT THE TODDLER DOWN AND HE SMILED AT EVERYBODY AND THEN STARTED SPRINTING. EVERY PARENT'S NIGHTMARE. IT'S A HORRIBLE SITUATION. HORRIBLE. NEIGHBORS REACTED TO THE SCARY NEWS. SABRINA IS PRETTY PROUD OF HER BRAVE HUSBAND. Sabrina is pretty proud of her brave husband. I'm so proud of him and I just I'm happy that that person was caught that no one was hurt. Adam Walker is joining about all the child molestation cases that I prosecuted and have covered. And those people's lives, Adam, will never, ever be the same. Yes, they'll go back into society. They'll, you know, go about their life as if normal. But it sticks with you the rest of your life.

You're never the same. I often compare it to like breaking your arm and you never get it set. And you go on. You can go on and flip a pancake even one day. But your arm will always hurt. And nothing will ever be the same for the rest of your life. And I'm comparing that with statistics that I know to be true, that every time a pedophile is caught, he is typically a male, has acted, has molested so many, many times before for every single time that they're

caught. I mean, Adam, you're just, you know, rattling your story off like it's nothing. Dr. Bethany Marshall, please tell him about the statistics about how pedophilia cannot be cured. And stopping this guy may have saved how many children from a lifetime of hurt? Well, the statistics are incredible, Nancy. There was one very important prison survey where they actually interviewed incarcerated pedophiles and learned that on average, these men had perpetrated against children for 17 years before they were incarcerated. And then a follow-up study showed that when these men were released from prison, they were angrier and even more ready to offend than before. And another study showed... Hold on, Dr. Bethany, before I lose the thought, and you hold on to your thought, I'm going to have you pick up. This is my anecdotal observation, which makes Adam Walker

even more of a hero to me. I'm not a shrink like you and I don't have statistics like Steve Lampley or John Limley, but I recall every time I would prosecute a child molestation, I would uncover history of at least three to 18 or 19 previous attacks on children. Roscoe Holyoke, he's not charged with pedophilia. He's not charged with that. He's not charged with molestation. Okay, he is charged with felonies regarding kidnapping a little child, a taut boy from the mom. And he did have that incident where he tried to play in someone's

home with an infant that he didn't know. And the neighborhood chased him and held him and restrained him until cops got there. But I'm thinking just anecdotally, Dr. Bethany, about all the times, practically every time I had a child molestation case that I prosecuted, there were what we call similar transactions to bring in front of the jury. And those are the ones that I just had time to find in my very, very hectic trial preparation. So how many more are there that I didn't know about, Bethany? Well, the first stat I ever read was so startling to me. Male offenders who offend against little boys

offend on average 544 times over the course of the lifespan. 544 times. That was the first stat I ever read. These are men molesting little boys. Say that one more time, please. Say that one more time. Male offenders who molest boys, where boys are their preferred victim, offend on average 544 times over the course of a lifespan. And now sometimes this is the same victim repeatedly, sometimes different victims. So you may have 544 incidences of molesting a child, but maybe you have 300 victims. Now, Nancy, that is what we call an extra-familial offender, meaning they pick random victims. Intra-familial offenders, people who molest their own children, their own relatives, have an even higher offense rate because they have more access to the victim. So the stats there are even

scarier. I once had a couple come to my office for therapy. They were like a grandma, grandpa age. They were in their late seventies and the first three months were awkward. I couldn't figure out why they were in couple therapy. There was like no rhyme or reason. There was no pattern, clinical pattern that followed any pattern that I recognized. And they asked me to speak to their adult son. And the son said, you don't know why they've come to therapy, do you? And I said, no. He said, my dad molested my little girl. And I said that if they didn't go to therapy, I'd have to report them. And I said, well, I'm going to have to report them today. The last time I saw that couple, they got a lawyer, never saw them again, reported them to Child Protective Services.

But throughout the course of the brief time I saw them, they were constantly talking about children. They were obsessed. But they went to therapy to try to get out of a crime and instead it landed them right in hot water. So Adam Walker, hero dentist, you chase the guy and when you catch him, what does he do? You know, he gave up without a struggle. You know, there was, you know, as I was approaching him, I was wondering, you know, what's going to happen once I catch him? was, you know, as I was approaching him, I was wondering, you know, what's, what's going to happen once I catch him. And, you know, I had noticed that his fists were kind of clenched together. I wasn't certain if he had anything in his hands or not. But luckily once I got to about arm's reach, he, he totally gave up. So, so he obeyed my commands,

you know, when I, when I told him to get against the wall and get on his knees, he followed those commands. How did you know how to do that? I don't think they teach that in dental school. They definitely don't teach that in dental school. I was just thinking from a point of reference that if he was just trying to take a rest, because we were all pretty winded by the time we got him, I just wanted to make sure that I get as much of an advantage as I can if he decided to try to get up and start running again.

So I figured, hey, get off your feet and let me see what's in your hands and we'll probably be safe. Let me ask you this, Adam Walker joining us. Adam, can you remember anything going through your mind as you were chasing this guy? Not initially. Initially, I just was trying to run as fast as I could to catch him, but it wasn't until I started getting closer and realized that I was going to catch him

that I started thinking, hey, I wonder what's going to happen once I do. But that initial instinct was just to go get him. Adam, it's interesting to me that you turn the corner, you've got your wife and your four-year-old child with you, and you hear people going, saying, hey, somebody catch him. Well, somebody turned out to be you. All these people standing around doing nothing,

but you are the one to take off running. Why you? What clicked in your mind? Well, I definitely attribute it at least partially to the fatherly instinct. You know, I think back, you know, if it was, if I was not present in that situation, I feel like, you know, I was just doing what I would hope any other able-bodied person would do if it were my child and I wasn't there. Listen to this. I think it was great that they decided to help. It's very dangerous. Investigators are looking into Holyoke, whose Facebook page shows he works as a DJ, known as DJ Roski. No word yet on his background or time in the U.S., but he is

jailed on a half million dollars bail for attempted kidnapping. We don't know what started this, why he decided to grab the child, so we're trying to figure out some of the details now. We should learn more about Roscoe Holyoke in the coming days. He was carrying a backpack. Police have not said what was in it. Now, Adam Walker said when he caught up with Holyoke and saw that his fists were clenched, he wondered what would happen, but as he said, he gave up with Hollyoak and saw that his fists were clenched, he wondered what would happen. But as he said, he gave up with no struggle. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I think back, you know, if it was, if I was not present in that situation, I feel like, you know, I was just doing what I would hope any other able-bodied person would do if it were my child and I wasn't there.

I'm just trying to take in what you just said. You know, Adam, sadly, most people don't think that way. Most people don't act. But you did thank God right there in broad daylight. A guy walks by and picks the boy up, wraps his arms around the boy's rear end, throws a smile back at the mom, and takes off running. Sadly, most people don't act, but you did thank God. So how did the police get there, and what happened when they did? They got there within maybe two or three minutes, you know, very, very quickly. And, um, and so I, you know, again, when I was holding the man, I was just so focused on, on all my attention was just holding him there and not letting him get up and, you know, being prepared in case anything happened. So, um, I

didn't see, you know, which direction they came from or anything like that. I just felt a tap on my shoulder. Once they arrived and said, okay, we got it from here. And I stepped aside and they proceeded to cuff him. Wow. You know, John Limley, crimeonline.com, investigative reporter, wants in because he wants to talk about motive. John Limley, you do know the state doesn't have to prove motive. I don't have to crawl in this guy's head and figure out why he wanted to go in and play with an infant he didn't know in somebody's home, allegedly, or why he grabbed this child away from the mom and tried to take off running. But go ahead. Go ahead. I'll amuse you. Tell me about motive. Well, DJ Holyoke really has not provided any, at least public, explanation because he is out there on social media. He has

had the opportunity to say something. He just has not even tried to explain his bizarre behavior or motive for his actions. Now, during his court appearance, his first court appearance, he just kept his head down. He didn't say anything, didn't speak to the judge after she read the charges against him. During his five-minute court appearance, that's all there was to it, bail was set at $500,000, and the judge issued a restraining order mandating that Holyoke not go within 150 yards of the victim or the mother. Now, we did hear through Australia's Channel 9 News, they spoke with Holyoke's public defender, Steve Olmo, as he's trying to defend his client. Ulmo gave several possible explanations for his client's arrest over zealous police work, mistaken identity, wrong place, wrong time, wrong color. Ulmo added that Holyoke was in town for business at the time of this incident, had no previous criminal history. Adam Walker, the hero who chases this guy down. Adam, do you have any doubt in your mind that the guy you were chasing and held until police got there is the guy that grabbed the two-year-old little boy? I have no doubt in my mind.

He definitely didn't leave my sight. And if that wasn't the guy, he would have a whole lot more questions for me when I was holding him against the wall. So I have no doubt in my mind that that was the guy. Yeah, you're right. Like, why are you holding me against the wall and making me get on my knees? I mean, he held his hands up in the air and went, okay, you got me. I'm done. So what do you make of that, hearing the defense claiming,

that's the wrong guy, wrong place, wrong time, blah, blah, blah. Second verse, same as the first, Adam Walker. Yeah, you know, that definitely is not the case. I know for a fact that the man that was holding the child was the man that was holding against the wall. Take a listen to our friend Charles Croucher at 9 News. Australian DJ Roscoe Bradley Hollyoak remains behind bars here in San Francisco's Hall of Justice

after a brief appearance this afternoon. He kept his head down, he was wearing orange prison-issue attire and didn't look at the judge in the eye as she read the charges against him. There are two. One is of kidnapping, one is child endangerment. They are both considered felonies here in San Francisco and both carry with them years in jail as a potential punishment. Police say the Australian DJ, who is big in the Perth club scene, attempted to snatch a toddler who was walking with his mother in a busy area of San Francisco on Friday in broad daylight. A scuffle ensued. The Australian attempted to flee the scene but was chased down by bystanders. They made citizens arrest at the scene. What isn't clear is any kind

of motive for this attack or what the defence will be for Mr Hollyoak, I asked his lawyer outside of court. Overzealous police work, mistaken identity, wrong place, wrong time, wrong color, lots of clients of darker persuasion. I don't see cameras out here when they're arrested. Take your pick of those excuses from the lawyer. What is clear, though, is that Mr. Holyoake has been retained behind bars. His bail was set at half a million dollars.

He's also been ordered not to go anywhere near these alleged victims. He'll reappear here in court in San Francisco in the coming days. Well, I kind of thought Lindley was kidding when he spit out all of those various defenses at once, but it sounds like that's for real. Take a listen to this. Almost a week after Australian Roscoe Holyoak was arrested, still no clearer as to why the DJ swapped the club for the courthouse. I think there was just a break with no evil intent. It makes no sense for the man that I've gotten to know over two days. The 34-year-old pleading not guilty to kidnapping and child endangerment after police say he attempted to steal a toddler in broad daylight. Just a kind of a mental disengagement with reality. Did he attempt to take a job? No. Holyoak's defence will rely on character, dismissing an incident in Sydney that led

to New South Wales police questioning the Perth-based DJ. There was a dispute between neighbours he was visiting in the area. Loud noise, baby crying and it escalated between him and one of the parents. The Australian consulate is aware of the case. Hollyoak's friends rallying to his defence. Talking to all these people in Australia running up. This is just a shock. This is not the man everyone knows. Mr. Holyoak kept his head down the entire time in court. He had to be prompted to speak to the judge and held in his hand letters of support from Perth. But witnesses and prosecutors say the evidence against the Australian is overwhelming. We charge cases based on the evidence and based on the investigation and the evidence that we have We charge cases based on the evidence and based on the

investigation and the evidence that we have, we feel as though the charges are wholly appropriate. To Adam Walker, when you look back on it, would you do it again? You know, absolutely. I mean, in that moment when that happens and there's, you know, a mother pleading for help, you can't help but think you'd act the same way. Obviously, in retrospect, thinking back, I definitely feel very fortunate and lucky that things turned out

the way that they did because things could have been very, very different. It could have had a very different ending. Luckily, everyone was safe. In that instance, something like that happens and someone needs help, and especially in the case where someone did something to that extreme and they need to be off the streets.

Yeah, absolutely, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Well, you know what? I hope you stay strong in your convictions because in the last hours, this guy, Roscoe Bradley Holyoak, has pled not guilty to felony kidnapping and child endangerment charges in front of San Francisco Superior Court Judge Vidika Puri. Long story short, looks like you're going to be a state's chief witness at trial. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.