Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - PREGNANT MOM, 25, MISSING, FAMILY'S DESPERATE PLEA: WHERE'S EMMA?

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Heading into the ninth month of her pregnancy, Emma Baum finds out on October 4th that she is already dilated one centimeter. Six days later, knowing the baby will be here soon, Emma has her sister drive her to boyfriend, and father-to-be Antwon Butler's house in Gary, Indiana Thursday evening. Emma tells her sister she will see her tomorrow and goes inside.  Friday, Emma Baum does not reach out to her family members even though they are expecting her to come home. After waiting all weekend, Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, calls Butler and asks to speak to Emma. Antwon Butler tells Jamie that Emma isn't there...he saw her leave with a girl in a car. However, Butler changes his story several times and family believes he is being less than truthful. The family reports Emma Baum missing and tell the police Antwon Butler was the last person to see Emma. As it happens, Antwon Butler has an outstanding warrant for failure to appear, so he is picked up and taken to jail on charges not related to his missing girlfriend.  Weeks of searching for Emma have led to no results and the family of Emma Baum are at a loss for what to do next. Standing in front of Antwon Butler's house in Gary, Indiana, the family asks local tv crews to get the word out, begging for the safe return of the mom of three and her newborn.   Joining Nancy Grace today: Jamie Baum - mother Jason Waddell -  father Abby Smith - sister  Paige Baum - sister Gregory Morse – Partner at the law firm of King Morse, PLLC. Current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida), Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office. Author: “The Untested,” Website: kingmorselaw.com Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” X: @TrialDoc” Twitter: https://twitter.com/TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology" Brian Fitzgibbons – VP of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Kingsman Philanthropic’s 2022 rescue missions of women and children in Ukraine, Iraq War Veteranide_security Lisette Guillen  - On-site host of 'Case Files Chicago',, Facebook: chicagolisette, IG: Lisette Guillen, LinkedIn: Lisette Guillen, TikTok: Bluangelwings   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A pregnant mom just 25 years old missing tonight. The family's desperate plea. Where's Emma? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

I'm Emma Baum's mother. I would like my daughter home. We miss her. Her babies need her. Her family needs her. And if anybody knows anything or can help search for her, could you please help us? We need her home. That is Emma Baum's mother. A desperate plea to bring Emma home. Emma, nine months pregnant, dilated to one centimeter to our knowledge. That from our friends at ABC7.

Joining me right now, an all-star panel, but first I want to go to Emma's mother, Jamie Baum. Jamie, thank you for being with us. Also with Jamie is Emma's father, Jason Waddell, and sister, Abby. To all of you, thank you for being with us. I've just learned about Emma's disappearance. I'm very curious. I know that she's been gone several weeks at this point, but the first thing I want to do, Jamie, is get her photo out there. Emma, gorgeous, stunning,

inside and out, a real girly girl. She loved putting on makeup and dressing up. she loved different styles wearing wigs just everything fashion. now at nine months pregnant seemingly has vanished. straight back out to Jamie Baum. first of all tell me about the pregnancy. Is it correct that she was at one centimeter when she goes missing? Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Tell me about her pregnancy. Has it been a difficult pregnancy? Has it been high risk? What can you tell me? Because I'm trying to imagine, is she in some hospital somewhere? Has she had the baby? What is behind all of this? How do you just vanish at nine months pregnant? I could hardly walk at six months pregnant with twins.

So how does a pregnant young, she's just 25, a young woman just seemingly disappear? Tell me about her pregnancy. Well, she's had a good pregnancy. She was just dilated when she went. We tried to have her stay home, but she ended up going out. Right now, her children want to know where's a mommy. Again, joining me in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now. But listen. We've all gathered here today because we are looking for my sister. She is one centimeter dilated on October 4th. She has been missing since October 10th. My sister is beautiful. She's energetic. She reaches for the sky just like a sunflower, which is her

favorite. You are seeing that from our friends at ABC7. Join me in addition to Emma's mother, Jamie, father, Jason, and sister, Abby. Lissette Guillen is joining us, host of Case File Chicago, and you can find her at Case File Chicago. Lissette, thank you for being with us. Lissette, tell me about the area from which she goes missing. This is Gary, Indiana. Is it in

the city? Is it the metropolitan area around the city? This is in the city, Nancy. It's in a more dilapidated area. We're talking about 25th block of Connecticut Street, which there are a lot of empty buildings around. There's a lot of empty land and wooded area there. So it is, you know, part of the city. One of the concerns is it's also very near our expressways here. And, of course, we're known as the crossroads of America in this area. So, you know, the thought of maybe her, you know, being even gone on that highway is actually a concern, too. You're absolutely correct.

Listen to this. Emma Baum was last seen near 25th Avenue and Connecticut Street, about two miles directly south of downtown Gary, Indiana. It's been described as a dismal and desolate area. Baum was visiting a home in the neighborhood. Her friends and family have been there, scouring abandoned homes, looking for her and for clues into her disappearance.

Joining me in addition to the family analyst at Guillen, Brian Fitzgibbons is with us, Director of Operations, USPA, Nationwide Security, leading a team of investigators specializing in finding missing people. You can find him at uspasecurity.com. Brian, thank you for being with us. I've got all sorts of thoughts colliding in my head regarding the disappearance of 25-year-old, nine-month-pregnant Emma Baum.

Number one, a case I'm sure you're very familiar with, and that is the case of Shasta and Dylan Groney, who go missing out of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Why? What does that have to do with Emma's disappearance? If you could control room, please show me that map again. If you look down at an aerial of Coeur d'Alene, you see nothing but green, densely wooded trees. That's all you see running through that very rural area, heavily forested is an interstate. What happened to these two children? A guy, a perv driving down the interstate gets a glimpse of Shasta Groney, about 11 years old and little brother, gets a glimpse through the trees of them at an above ground pool. He goes and lies in wait, kills the whole family to abduct the children, ultimately killing Dylan as well. Shasta lived. After our program broadcast the photos. A woman in a convenience store spotted Shasta with her attacker and called the tip line.

OK, the significance of that interstate cannot be emphasized enough. Explain, Brian. To have a main thoroughfare like that so close to where Emma was last seen is very concerning because she could move at a high rate of speed to get away from that area. And complicating factor even further is the phone that she was holding at the time did not have a service plan connected. So even though it's still going to communicate. That's a whole other can of worms, the cell phone issue. But Brian, just think about it. 60 miles an hour. If she was in a vehicle, that's how quickly she'd be gone.

At one centimeter dilated just before her disappearance. Look at Emma, 5'3", 136 pounds, nine months pregnant, brown hair, light brown hair, blondish hair and eyes, brown eyes, tattoos. You see one right there. Now she loves to dress up and wear different colored wigs. That's just her. What is she wearing right now? We cannot project that. There you see her in other shots. You may see her with short, bright brown hair. Just look at her face. If I could show her face again and specifically, specifically, I want to see a shot of that tattoo along her neck and collarbone. Because regardless of how she's got her hair done, that is something that will not change.

To Jamie, this is Emma's mom. What is that? There she is with the brown hair, with a brown wig. Jamie, what is the tattoo? It looks like a sunrise. It looks, it is. Yes, it is a sunrise. Emma is a natural brunette, but often has her hair like this. Now, the other case I want to bring up to you, Brian Fitzgibbons. We just heard Lizette Guillen joining us from Case File Chicago, talking about multiple abandoned homes in the area where she was last visiting friends.

In that neighborhood, there are some abandoned homes. And it brings to mind a case that I covered extensively. The disappearance of Aliana DeFreeze, a schoolgirl on her way to school, ultimately found she had been tortured. She was killed in an abandoned home. Brian Fitzgibbons, police must go through every single abandoned home in that area. Explain the danger. There's a lot of inherent danger there. First of all, Gary, Indiana is a dangerous place. With all these abandoned homes, Nancy, you complicate search efforts, particularly for volunteers. Police need to get on the ground there in that vicinity of 25th and Connecticut and start searching some of those abandoned

properties immediately. How do you go about doing that? I mean, this is your expertise. You don't just drive by for Pete's sake. The problem I see with an abandoned home is that a victim can be taken in there. They can be raped. They can be murdered. They can be held hostage. And no one's going in and out. People stay away from abandoned homes. Who wants to get near it? You don't know what's in there. They're deemed unsafe. So people can be in there and nobody knows. Yeah, the city should have access to these abandoned properties without needing a search warrant. In many cases, they will indeed have that access. So I don't see that being an issue in this case. Another case that is startlingly similar is that of a young mom, a Memphis mom,

Eliza Fletcher outmining her own business. Eliza was jogging. Here we have Emma innocently visiting a friend and she goes missing. Eliza goes missing. She was found in an abandoned home that no one thought to look in. I would advise some sort of a grid search at this point, Brian Fitzgibbons, a grid search of this entire area. Absolutely. And it's, listen, it's a, there are quite a few abandoned homes in that vicinity, but this is not a massive area around the place that she was last seen. And we have to think if something did happen to her, she would have had to been moved very close by, that she wouldn't have been moved too far away.

To Abby Smith joining me, this is Emma's sister along with mom, Jamie. Abby, tell me about the phone, the phone that Emma had. Emma used a lot of the Wi-Fi data, so she should have been able to connect to some sort of cell tower or some sort of area where we'd be able to determine whether or not that phone was moved, I thought. Her last message was at 5.32 p.m., and then she's just gone completely blank. We haven't had any contact. No one has said anything. We haven't come up. No Facebook, no Snapchat, no, like, no anything. And we have not found the phone.

Okay, hold on right there, right there. Hold on, hold on. I've got to dissect everything you're saying. Abby is Emma's sister. Guys, please help us. Please help us. The family contacted me. We read about the case online. I have seen no other media coverage of Emma's case. The family is desperate tonight joining together. The dad, the mom, the sister begging for help, begging for your help. I want

to give you a couple of numbers right now. Here is a toll free number. It's 1-800-U-TELL-US. 1-800-883-5587. Repeat 1-800-883-5587. You can remain anonymous. You can remain anonymous. 1-800-U-TELL-US. Or there's a detective working the case out of Lake County Homicide, Detective Gordon. 219-755-3855. 219-755-3855. The mom and dad desperate, desperate for help. They have been out searching. They have been out putting up flyers. Won't you help us help them? To Sister Abby, I want to understand a little bit more about her cell phone. Now, was this a prepaid phone you said she was using? Wi-Fi? Was she out of minutes?

Help me understand what's happening. She was going to turn it on. I believe she was using the phone company Boost. Was it the Boost? I think so. Boost. So, like, it's one of the prepaid phones. She had no minutes, so she did actively use the Wi-Fi.

She would connect anywhere she could, so she could keep in contact with everybody. Hold on just a second. Abby, you cut out on me. Would you just start that over, please? I need to hear every word. Was she using a prepaid phone? Yes. Through Boost Mobile. Okay. Prepaid phone, Boost Mobile. Had she run out of minutes? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So let me understand Brian Fitzgibbons. I don't have a prepaid phone. Explain to me how that works quickly. Whether your phone has minutes or not, it's still communicating to cell phone towers. Anybody who has an old phone knows you can still make an emergency call from it. It's not sending as much information. It's not going to be as precise, but that phone would have still been communicating with cell phone towers. Urgent. Are you telling me, Brian, that even though she was out of minutes, her phone could still be pinged?

That is correct, Nancy. That's what I was getting at. I'm sorry to cut you off, Abby, but that's what I'm trying to find out. To hey with the prepaid minutes and the blah and the blah. I want to get a ping. I want a ping on this phone. So do you believe, Abby, she had simply run out of minutes? Was the phone cut off?

Or was the phone dead, out of battery? Because the prepaid aspect is irrelevant, according to Fitzgibbons. Well, like you said, she was a girly girl, so she would not have a dead phone. It just isn't like her to walk around without a cell phone especially being as pregnant as she was it makes no sense why she would not have it responsible than that yes way more responsible than that when you say she was very responsible to mom jamie bomb what do you mean she was more responsible than that she just was honest. She wouldn't have not called any of us. We talked to her daily. She has a huge family and we all stay connected all the time. Very responsible. A great

mom. Pregnant nine months. Brian, I just want to nail something down, okay? So if she had her phone with her and she, like most of us, is very careful about keeping it charged, it doesn't matter, Brian, if she had run out of minutes. Is that correct? That's correct. It changes things a bit because it's not communicating with the towers as much as a phone that has service. So on your phone that has service, you might have a hundred different applications that are communicating out to the internet and through the tower. All right. When that service is off, you only have that emergency beacon and GPS and the ability to make a call to the cell phone company. Back to Sister Abby joining us.

Abby, my control room just came into my ear and told me that Emma's father, Jason, actually had to walk out of the room. What happened? It's a lot emotionally. This is one of the hardest things our family has ever dealt with. And I wouldn't say he wants to admit that he feels broken or unable to do anything to help. He just can't return. And it's just breaking everybody. He's broken.

Isn't your dad a war vet? Yes. Yes. What war was he in? Iraq. He went to Iraq. So this is a man that's faced the enemy far from home and fought bravely, and he cannot talk about Emma's disappearance.

What has this done to him? What has this done to him? He wants to do what is right so we can make sure we have the correct justice. And it's just really hard emotionally. He feels like his country has turned his back on his children. And he has put all the effort into making it safe for everybody. And it's not. It's still not.

So it's probably hurting him in a way that none of us will ever understand. But we see it. For those of you joining us and just joining us now, there is a desperate search right now in Gary, Indiana and beyond for a 25-year-old pregnant mom, Emma Baum. Please help us. The search for Baum has been extensive. Police say three primary locations have come up in the investigation, and those searches have been exhausted.

Canines brought in on the search found nothing. Multiple interviews have been conducted as volunteers search overgrown fields, knock on doors, and pass out flyers. Officers are now scouring old video footage, nine months pregnant, is missing. Stunningly, I have learned that the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women in the U.S. is homicide. It's not a stroke. It's not blood pressure. It's not a heart attack. It's homicide. When I heard that, I actually tracked down the first author, a doctor

that wrote that because I couldn't believe it. As I recall, she was with the New England Journal of Medicine. I thought certainly I had it wrong. I didn't. She didn't. It's true. Look at Emma Baum. Please look at Emma Baum. I know we tonight sound angry and agitated because we are. She cannot just vanish off the face of the earth. Who saw a nine months pregnant woman, her beautiful Emma. We know that her phone should still be pinging, but apparently it's not. We know that there, we know there have been searches with canines. They found nothing. Volunteers searching overgrown fields, knocking on doors, passing out flyers. We know officers say they are scouring old video footage in the area from which she went missing. No sign of Emma. I don't believe in supernatural

reasons for disappearances or reappearances. This is very real and someone very real and very much alive knows where is Emma. Joining me in All-Star Panel, but in addition to Sister Abby, hopefully Father Jason can rejoin us. This has triggered so much for him. He is an Iraqi war vet. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mom, Jamie, and now Sister Paige joining us, begging for your help. Back to Lisette Guillen joining us, host of Case Files Chicago. Lisette, I've been looking at the crime rates. Now, while Indiana itself has one of the lower national crime rates, Gary, not so much when it comes to violent crime. 27th in violent crime nationally. Explain.

The area of Gary is, you know, very, it is very urban. And there is a lot of migration that comes through from the city of Chicago, people that are relocated there to here. So it's interesting. And we know that Chicago has some issues of its own. And some of those people come

and bring some of those issues. So we're adding that on to the top already on top of the issues that Gary's already had the other problem is is that there is a flight I mean people aren't living in Gary no more people aren't putting a lot of businesses there like they used to and so people are scavenging for jobs people have to move out to find other jobs. The school system, there's plenty of schools that are not open anymore. In fact, one of them that came into question, Pulaski School, which is a point of interest for police, was set on fire recently. And so we have, in addition to abandoned buildings, we have abandoned schools now as well. So that all plays into the part of

the crime and the dilapidation of the city of Gary. All of what Lisette just told us is true, but that leaves me still asking, where is this beautiful girl at one centimeter dilation? Listen. Emma Baum comes from a very close, big family with brothers and sisters for just about every day of the week. She loves the closeness they share now as adults, and she's creating her own large family with three children, Camden six, Lucas three, Amber two, and her fourth is on the way. Her sister Abigail says Emma is energetic,

always reaching for the sky like a sunflower, which is her favorite flower. Emma is very creative with her appearance, as she usually wears wigs of all kinds of colors and styles over her naturally brown hair. She never looks the same for very long. Emma's family is desperately pushing for more resources to be put toward finding Emma. Listen. Baum's family is pushing for more resources to be given to the search effort. Sister Abby Smith says the family has put their own lives at risk searching abandoned houses and digging dirt piles. According to the Gary Police Commander,

there are license plate reading cameras and gunshot detection technology, but no police observation device cameras or POD cameras in the area Baum was last seen in. Another sister, Haley Baum, says she has stopped people in their cars, stopped people walking, talking to everyone possible.

They're now turning to the public for help. Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, says, quote, We're always going to look for her. I'm never going to stop looking for her. Let me understand, Jamie Baum, this is Emma's mother joining us. You and Abby have been stopping cars, asking if anyone has seen Emma. Tell me about this. We've been out every day, all day, 24, 24-7. Walking in the middle of the road.

Going in houses, asking anyone that we can. Holding our sign up to every window. Desert divider. Paige Baum joining us in addition to Abby and Jamie. Paige, tell me about your family's effort on your own without police or sheriffs trying to find Emma. We've been searching every day. We haven't found any answers, but we're going to keep trying. Abby, tell me about what you, what is going through your mind when you're out in the middle

of the road, running up to cars saying, have you seen my sister and showing her picture? Hoping that someone is going to give us an answer, that someone knows something that maybe if they run us over, they'll look harder because that could be the guy running from the situation. Well, I don't understand why you have to be out going car to car and door to door in an abandoned homes looking for Emma. Jamie, why are your daughters doing the police work? Well, we have to find her somehow. And if we have to do it, that's what's going to happen.

Police aren't out there going through houses, so we are. Why? Why aren't they? Have you asked them that? Yes. They said they're doing their job. They said they're doing their job. They say they're doing their job. Joining me is Greg Morse, high profile trial lawyer, partner at the law firm of King and Morse Palm Beach. You can find him at KingMorseLaw.com. Greg, very often you and I are on different sides of the fence, but I think you agree with me that there's an issue here, a disturbing issue. How can you, without antagonizing or agitating law enforcement, how can you get them to do more?

And what do you do as a family if you're not getting answers? Well, it is surprising in this, when I looked into it, what I haven't read the police have been trying to do. This country has license plate readers across the entire country. There's an expressway that borders this. There's also a port to Lake Michigan that borders the side. There's a lot of opportunity for law enforcement to look at technology to try to shrink the story as to where this young lady was taken or where she went. I was surprised a lot of the mainstream media has not given very many details, which police, of course, hold back some stuff to verify credibility. I get that. But when I look at this area, that's

unfortunately a common area in America, low income area that's forgotten. There's a lot of industry around it. One thing we talk about cell phone towers. That's just one component of what it says. Cell phones also routinely their Bluetooth will ping off of things anywhere they are. There is a lot of data that law enforcement could be looking at, and maybe they are. It sounds like, though, from the family that they're not. So I don't know how there hasn't been further information. There's a lot of resources to go to to try to find where this girl or what happened to lead down that path. The family of Emma Baum says the police have not been helpful in their efforts to find Emma,

but police say they have dedicated their search efforts to the three primary locations that have come up during the investigation and are now pivoting the investigation to scour old video footage in the areas where Emma was last seen, the area around Antoine Butler's house. The area around the bio dad's home is the beginning where she was last seen before, according to him, she left that area. But the family has made it known that the Gary PD was not helpful to them in their search for Emma. Now, a new detective with Lake County Homicide, Lake County Homicide is on the case and they feel rejuvenated. They feel that someone cares their case. Detective Gordon's number is 219-755-3855. Repeat 219-755-3855. When this goes to air tonight, please have that number emblazoned on a screen so people can see it. To Jamie Baum, explain to me why you felt that the Gary, Indiana police dragged their feet.

You know what? Let me ask you a question. According to a report given to me, one of the Gary, Indiana police said to you, when Emma went missing, well, if she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her. Did that happen? I want to confirm that with you.

Yes, ma'am, it did. He told, he had told my, my daughter that if she was gone, she would not be found. And that hurt my family greatly. I understand that after that, you feel renewed hope because Lake County homicide, specifically Detective Gordon, is now on the case. May I ask you, what led the Gary, Indiana police officer to tell you in the midst of the search of Emma, nine months pregnant? Yeah, she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her. What brought that on? Somebody had given us some information, and I had called and asked to pass it on to him. I asked him if he wanted it.

I had it all nicely where he could read it with the times and no questions asked, no cutting it off perfectly here you go he told me no not only did he not need it that if that was accurate we would never be able to find her if she was thrown into the garbage dump crime stories with nancy grace Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Brian Fitzgibbons, Director of Operations, USP, a nationwide security specialty, finding missing people. You know, in the midst of an investigation, I've had victims' families give me a lot of information. And sometimes I knew immediately it was not going to be pertinent to the investigation.

Like two years ago, she got a hang up phone call. Just an example. But you don't tell the family, I don't need your information. She's probably dead in a dumpster and you'll never find her. What, what was he thinking? Yeah, this, this defies logic, Nancy and to the family. I'm, I'm so sorry that, you know, you had to hear that. Um, it's very troubling to hear that. I mean, you take the information and you may believe, well, this is not pertinent, but you don't say that to a victim's family. You take the information, you may believe, well, this is not pertinent, but you don't say that to a victim's family. You take the information, you review it, you look at it, you study it and determine if it is or is not relevant. But to say that to a family when they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes, they are the ones digging through fields high in grass. They are the ones out in the street asking drivers to help them. Joining me right now is a renowned forensic psychologist,

Dr. Sherry Schwartz. You can find her at panthermitigation.com. Dr. Sherry, I recall the feeling of helplessness when my fiance was murdered. There was nothing I could do. Nothing. That is a feeling you never get over. This family has felt they had no ally, that no one was helping them. That can destroy. You saw the father have to get up and leave. Jason couldn't even listen because he feels so helpless.

What is that? How can we fight that so the family can get back on track and find Emma? Well, first of all, I want to say to the family how sorry I am for everything that you're going through for Jason, for dad and for mom, and even for the siblings. You can see the overwhelming sense of fear and helplessness and frustration that they can't get the help that they need from the people that we turn to to get help. They're being told, well, you know, she's dead. She might be in a dumpster somewhere and you'll never find her. But what they're failing to understand is that nobody knows if she's dead. And if they don't go out and investigate, then we're not going to know. And it's not just missing

Emma. There's a baby possibly, right? An infant baby that's missing. So from my position, there's two people missing here. And for the family, you guys are doing, from my perspective, everything that you can possibly do. Continue to stick together. That's really, really important. And support each other. Try to overcome your feelings of guilt because you're not doing anything wrong and you didn't do anything to cause this. Guys, this has been dragging on for weeks, the disappearance of Emma Baum. And in that time, wild fantastical theories have emerged. Listen. Bobby Joe Stinnett is eight months pregnant. Lisa Montgomery lies to her,

saying she wants to buy one of her puppies. Montgomery drives from Melbourne, Kansas, to Bobby Joe's home in Skidmore, Missouri. Montgomery strangles the mom-to-be and cuts the baby from her stomach. Lisa Montgomery is arrested the next day. The baby girl lives and is now a teenager living with her dad. You think that's fantastical? It was actually floated as a defense theory in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Dead, Lacey Peterson, and unborn child, Connor. These fantastical theories are not helping in the search for Emma, but yet they continue,

such as comparing the case to a teen girl, Marlon Ochoa-Lopez. 19-year-old Marlon Ochoa-Lopez is lured to the home of Desiree and Clarissa Figueroa with the promise of baby clothes. Once there, prosecutors say Clarissa got on top of Marlon, continuing to strangle her for up to five minutes after researching how long it would take for someone to die that way. They allegedly cut the baby from Marlon's body, stuffed her in a plastic bag in a hidden garbage can outside. Clarissa then claimed the baby with the umbilical cord and placenta still attached was hers. Her boyfriend is accused of helping to hide the murder and evidence at the home. On Friday, October 11th, Emma Baum does not reach out to her family members,

even though they are expecting her to come home. Emma has a phone, but it is out of minutes, telling her mother not to worry. She is getting minutes put on the phone on Friday. Emma said she would be back on Friday to do something with her six-year-old son, Camden. She doesn't show and doesn't call. The family waits through Saturday for Emma to come back, and when she isn't home by Sunday, her mother calls Antoine Butler. Antoine told Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, that he saw her leave with some girl in a car. What? Look, when my husband has to go out of town for work or he has to go somewhere, I think I know where he's going and what he's doing. Same thing with my children. What does this mean? The BF, the bio dad boyfriend says he quote, saw her leave with some girl in a car.

Lisette Guillen joining us, investigative reporters, host of Case Files Chicago. Lisette case files chicago lisette again let me understand that is the level of detail i've got from the boyfriend that she left with quote some girl in a car that's it that's it nancy and that's where the frustration lies is there's very little details okay hold on just a moment jamie bomb this is emma's mother has the boyfriend been helping to look for Emma? No, and his family has never reached out either. Yeah, I don't like the way that smells. To Greg Morse joining me, high-profile lawyer at King Morse. That's a silk stocking law firm out of Palm Beach County.

Greg, when I look at a statement or I evaluate the credibility of a witness, I look to see if their statement is, quote, rich in detail. I can tell you exactly what my son was wearing when he left for school this morning. Exactly. And I know what vehicle he was driving. I can tell you exactly what my daughter was wearing, what vehicle she was in, right down to their backpacks, their tote bags and their water bottles. What is this gibberish? Some girl, a girl in a car. What? detail as everyone else. However, I've 25 years of practicing law and handling every type of case. These type of general statements that aren't made in completion where the car went here, I knew the person was coming. The police generally look at that as suspect. They're not credible. And as I mentioned before, why isn't there information about this potential car? Why

aren't there people looking into where this car goes? Very easy thing to follow for police. Greg Morris, did I hear you say not everybody remembers details? Did you say that? I did say that, Nancy. Not everybody remembers the same. We're all different people. My fiance, Keith, was murdered decades ago.

I can't remember right now what he was wearing. Blue jeans and a denim shirt. He was going to work on a construction crew. He was driving a white Le Mans. And as he left, he hung his left arm out the window and waved goodbye to me. I remember it crystal clear. It's branded on my brain. Jamie, do you remember the last time you saw Emma?

Yes. What was she wearing? What did she say? Black clothing. She had her bag strapped around. She had her purse strapped around her chest. And she gave us a hug. Bye.

And told us she'd be home tomorrow, the next day. Kissed her son. I understand that you represent a lot of clients, but that is total BS, man. That all he knows is she left with some girl in a car. Technical legal term. I don't know if you use that at King and Morse, but that's BS. And I'm calling him out on this. Another thing, another thing I don't like is the last time she's seen it's at his house. Abby Smith, this is Emma's sister. Isn't that true?

That is correct. Our sister, Jaden and Jewel, dropped her off for sure at that house to meet her boyfriend. Now, I don't want to make an issue of this because this is a side issue. It's a collateral issue. But I'm curious. I'm very curious, Abby. This BF boyfriend, Antoine Butler. Was he supportive of the pregnancy? Was he helping her? No, there had been multiple times that he had asked her to get an abortion. And that is a fact. He didn't want it.

When Emma found out she was going into labor, she just wanted to go more or less, make sure and confirm and decide. She decided that no matter what, she was going to keep the baby and it was going to make her a better person. And then if he didn't want to be a part of it, that she needed to figure it out prior to fully going into labor. So no money, he's not supporting her. He's not excited about the baby. He wants her to have an abortion. You know what? All of that moral flaws that does not make him a kidnapper or a murderer. However, I'm very concerned about the fact, Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA, that that's where she's last seen. That doesn't bother you and nobody can tell me what kind of car she left in or where she went or anything? Oh, it's absolutely disturbing, Nancy. A vague statement like that, coupled with,

you know, potentially a motive that he didn't want her to have the baby and that she's having this conversation as she's about to go into labor, dilated a centimeter. You know, that was the purpose of this conversation. So all of this adds up to be very suspicious. Jamie, why did she go over to his place? I tried to keep her. I tried to ask her not to. She wanted to talk with him over about the baby.

I tried to keep her home. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, what we women go through to try to have the hallmark Christmas card. You know, we want the house deck. We want the house. We want the husband or the partner. We want the children. We want the turkey dinner. We want the Christmas tree. We want it the way we have grown up to think it should be right. And I've got a feeling Emma wanted that. She wanted the bio dad to want the baby, be part of the life, be a family,

and was going over to probably try to convince him of that. I'm sure for Emma, she probably couldn't imagine that he didn't feel the same way she felt in terms of wanting to have this baby and parent this baby. And so that's one of the difficulties. You're absolutely right. This is what we crave. She's about to give birth and she wants to talk to him and say, don't you want to be a part of this amazing child's life? I think you hurt my baby. And when you find her, she's out. the family in so much pain now out flagging down cars going to abandoned buildings walking through fields begging for volunteers that from our friends at abc7 the boyfriend the bio dad in this case, Antoine Butler, has not been named a formal suspect in the disappearance of Emma, Emma Baum, just 25 years old, nine months pregnant. her family asking for your help. Tip line to Detective Gordon 219-755-3855 or 1-800-U-TELL-US, 1-800-883-5587. To Emma's mother, Jamie Baum.

Jamie, what is your message tonight if Emma can hear you? Baby, we love you. I want you home. We miss you. We're searching for55. We wait for justice to unfold. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.