Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Prince Andrew Tries to 'DODGE' Subpoena in U.S. Sex Harass Case

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

Prince Andrew remaining silent about the lawsuit filed by Virginia Roberts Guiffre alleging that the Prince sexually abused her when she was 17. Prince Andrew has denied that he had sex with the teen. Process servers have been trying to serve Andrew notice of the lawsuit, but he and his lawyers have reported refused multiple attempts. This week Prince Andrew was seen leaving Royal Lodge in Windsor with his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson. His arrival at his mother, Queen Elizabeth's Scottish estate was also noted.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jeffrey Epstein and his lover, Jelaine Maxwell, Epstein now dead, Jelaine Maxwell behind bars awaiting trial on claims that she basically was a high-class pimp reeling in underage girls for Epstein to rape, molest, and traffic across state lines, even across country borders, to satisfy his perversions. But now, breaking news. In the case of not only Epstein's past, but Ghislaine Maxwell herself.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Prosecutors allege Elaine Maxwell used a cart filled with legal documents to barricade herself inside a Brooklyn conference room, causing a security threat. Maxwell has been allowed to meet with her lawyers in a virtual teleconference room at the Metropolitan Detention Center ahead of her trial. In one meeting, Maxwell allegedly used a cart to hold legal documents to, quote, barricade the door to the VTC room, preventing staff from being able to access the room. The letter states that because of the security threat posed, the defendant is no longer permitted to bring the cart into the room and can only, quote, take in what she can carry. Maxwell's lawyer denied her client used the cart to block access to the room. I'm very surprised she can even have access to the room, given what we now know.

Joining me in all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. What, if any, impact does Jelaine Maxwell, barricading herself in a conference room in the jail, have on a potential trial regarding Prince Andrew. Can he be forced to come to our country? What are his legal rights in Britain? This all swirling around claims he had underage sex as statutory rape of a young woman now grown. Joining me, an all-star panel. First of all, Wendy Patrick, california prosecutor author of red flags

and the host of today with dr wendy on kcbq san diego dr angela arnold renowned psychiatrist joining me out of atlanta you can find her at angela arnold md.com professor of forensics jacksonville state university author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a brand new hit series, The Piketon Massacre on iHeart Radio, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Alexis Tereszczuk. Alexis, thank you for being with us. Jelaine Maxwell, with all that money, all that education and breeding and sophistication, barricades herself in a room in the jail? Yep. The police say, well, the prison guards say, so she spends hours and hours every single day. She is given unlimited time, hours to spend on a

video conference with her attorneys. So she goes to a conference room in the prison and she takes a card and filled with all of her legal papers that she keeps and she spends the day in there talking with him. But what the prison guard says is she put the cart in front of the door and barricaded herself in and she wouldn't come out and they could not get in. And this is something that prisoners are absolutely not allowed to do. But because of attorney-client privilege, they can't have someone else in the room with her, but they are saying they're not going to, they don't want her to do this anymore because this is such a huge violation, such a security threat, such a safety threat. So you're telling me, Alexis Teresich, that every day Ghislaine Maxwell is closeted away in a private room on video conferencing with her lawyers, according to her? Yes. And not just 15 minutes or a 30 minute call. Hours. She spends hours and hours every day.

And they describe it as discussing her legal strategy every day. You know what that suddenly reminded me of? Do you remember Alexis Tereschuk when top mom Casey Anthony was on house arrest and she would go, she could go to church or to her lawyers, I believe it was. She would spend days and days and days at the law firm of Jose Baez, his law firm, off, closeted away, locked in a room with Jose Baez. Do you remember that day after day after day? Yes.

It's almost, it's really a way of avoiding the rules that the probation office or the prison have set up. So, Jelaine is just in there, like, you know, Casey, because as you said, Casey could go to church. I might be mistaken in my memory, but I don't remember her ever setting foot in a church. But Jelaine is sitting in this conference room for hours on end on Zoom every single day with her attorney. I'm just trying to think about it. To you, Dr. Angela Arnold, I think we need to shrink on this.

Why would she barricade herself in one of those conference rooms? I think that things are getting too close for her, too close for comfort. And she doesn't. And I think she's getting worried about what's going to happen. And she didn't want anybody to come in there. And maybe she just didn't want them to find out that she's hooked up to HGTV for all I know. I mean, I don't know what she's doing in there, but I find it really hard to believe that high priced attorneys charging seven, eight hundred dollars an hour are going to be in a conference call with Jelaine Maxwell for eight hours a day. I just don't believe that. So, you know, I don't know what's going on in that room, but Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, the reality is there are very stringent rules

behind bars, all for good reason. Yeah, that's right, Nancy. You know, safety is paramount behind bars. And yes, clients like Elaine Maxwell do have access to law libraries and lawyers and that kind of preparation time. But within the boundaries of keeping everybody else safe, so barricading yourself anywhere in custody is going to be grounds for discipline. It's going to be the kind of, whether it's a cry for help, if things are getting too close for comfort, however you describe it, it'll be dealt with. And the loss of privileges behind bars, people don't recognize how severe this can be because gaining, earning privileges is something that actually allows prisoners like Ms. Maxwell to prepare for court. are there reports that Ghislaine Maxwell barricaded herself in a conference room so jailhouse guards couldn't get in during one of her marathon conference calls, video conference calls with her lawyers. But a photo of Ghislaine Maxwell with a black eye, I mean a solid black eye, have emerged. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. In a letter written by Maxwell's lawyer to the district court judge, attorney Bobby Sternheim released a photo of Jelaine Maxwell

with a black eye. Maxwell reportedly said she didn't know where the bruise came from, but it could be due to her using a sock or towel to shield her eyes. According to Maxwell's lawyer, prison guards shine a light into Maxwell's cell every 15 minutes to make sure she's still breathing and has not tried to kill herself. The letter also says that guards at the Brooklyn jail threatened to move Maxwell to separate housing if she could not provide an explanation for the bruise. In the letter, Ms. Sternheim writes that while Maxwell is unaware of the cause of the bruise, she has, quote, grown increasingly reluctant to report information to the guards for fear of retaliation, discipline, and punitive chores. Judge Allison Nathan said

prosecutors have a week to explain if and why jail officials have been subjecting Maxwell to, quote, flashlight surveillance, and if Maxwell can be provided with appropriate eye covering. Okay, let me understand something, Alexis Tereschuk. Appropriate eye covering. What, does Jelaine Maxwell want a sleep mask behind bars? Is that what's happening? I mean, yes. So she, so the fear, I think, in this is coming from

what this is all based around. Jeffrey Epstein, she is in jail for being his madam, which you spoke about. But the thing is, he committed suicide in jail. And so nobody got justice his victims these child victims of his child assault didn't get justice none of justice was not served in that

case so they are making extra sure that jelaine maxwell does not do the same thing so she has been under suicide watch so the guards check on her every 15 minutes because the guards were not checking on jeffrey epstein and he was able to kill himself behind bars. So they want to make sure that she doesn't take the same way out, which doesn't explain to me her excuses. Also, she said she didn't even know she had the black eye. She doesn't have a mirror. Apparently there are no mirrors in this prison. And I believe that this this jail is really known as one of the really bad ones. I mean, I think there are some

places like where Martha Stewart spent her time that are minimum security and very nice. This is a very maximum security, very bare bones prison. She didn't have a mirror, so she says she saw her reflection in a nail clipper and she looked up because she had no idea she even had a black eye. It didn't

hurt. She didn't ask for medical help or anything like that. And then to say that a sock hit a black eye, but socks are so soft. So the judge just wants to get to the bottom of this, but they are, they do not want her to have any chance to commit suicide. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, I find it very interesting that Ghislaine Maxwell says she may have gotten a black eye from a towel or a sock that she places over her eyes at night and then somehow blames the guards for flashing a flashlight on her every 15 minutes. Well, I don't think you can get a black eye from a flashlight, a sock or a towel. So what gives,

Joe Scott? Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm wondering if she didn't have an altercation with someone in the prison. You know what, Joe Scott, I like you a lot, but I don't think I would repeat that again to your bosses over at Jacksonville State University. I think she had an altercation. Well, yeah, she's got a black eye, Joe Scott. Either somebody hit her in the eye or is self inflicted. Have you thought about that? Well, now that you mention it, it could be self inflicted. She could have run into the wall, perhaps. But also people with her kind of background, her alleged behavior relative to how she's treated these young girls and pimped them out. She would not be very popular in the prison population.

Let's keep in mind some of these people she's surrounded with might very well have been victims of very similar crimes throughout their life. So it's not going to be like she's going to be queen of the prison and at the top of the heap. One other thing that's very interesting, though, I don't know if you remember this, Nancy, but, you know, Jeffrey Epstein did the same thing while he was being held. Remember, he would take almost up to 12 hours per day in this holding room with these attorneys. They would even he'd even go out and they would allow him to buy out the soda machines. There was even word that he was putting extra money into the accounts of some of the prisoners in his vicinity to to keep him safe around there. So it seems as though this group of people are afforded certain luxuries that

others are not. Guys, we're talking about Ghislaine Maxwell behind bars, A, barricading herself in a conference room as she's on video chats with her lawyers for hours on, and I claim she's watching HGTV. Not only that, she shows up with a black eye and refuses to tell anybody where she got it. She points to a sock, a towel as being the perps. Do I buy that? No, I do not. So what's the point? The point is that right now, her longtime friend, Prince Andrew, that's right, Queen Elizabeth's son, is, let's just say, formally being requested to come to the U.S. to answer up on charges. He committed statutory rape on an American citizen. Take a listen to Our Cut 53.

She believes, as I do, that no one, no president, no prime minister, no Prince of England is above the law. It doesn't matter how many contacts you have. It doesn't matter who your family is. It doesn't matter how much wealth you have. You're not above the law. And no one, no matter how young or vulnerable or powerless, is deprived of the protection of the law. That is the bedrock principle of American law,

and I believe it's the bedrock principle of the United Kingdom from which we got our law. That's the renowned lawyer, David Boyce, speaking to our friends at ITV. The reality is Prince Andrew has been named in a civil suit by the young then young girl photoed with him. Andrew has his arm around her. She's wearing a midget shirt and they are in Ghislaine Maxwell's London town home. Now Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew both say no that couldn't possibly be my town home. But let me remind everybody that Ghislaine Maxwell's brother, Ian Maxwell, was doing an interview with the BBC last March and was thrown the question, have you seen the photo? He says yes. And he admits on BBC that that is his sister Ghislaine Maxwell's townhome in the background. That wasn't the

focus of the interview, but he inadvertently revealed that yes, that's Ghislaine Maxwell's townhome where you see Andrew and Virginia Jeffries, then a minor. So my question to you, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, could Prince Andrew be forced to come to America to answer up on these claims of statutory rape? It's not a criminal case. It's a civil case. In a civil case, we don't have the kind of extradition power that we have in a criminal case. So because this is a civil case, we aren't able to involuntarily bring Prince Andrew to America. Now he's able to come voluntarily. And remember back when this first broke, he had indicated a willingness not only to cooperate with the FBI,

but to help them build whatever case they needed by providing information. That cooperation has now fallen by the wayside. And is there a way to force him here against his will? The answer is no, not unless there is some type of criminal case that's built against him in the U.S. Now, the only thing we can do is put pressure on the authorities back where in his own jurisdiction. And if they were to come up with their own criminal investigation, they could pursue it there. But right now we can't pursue that here. I don't know about that because these statute of limitations may have run.

And I don't know that they would have jurisdiction for a criminal case involving Virginia Jeffries. Virginia Jeffries is not there. But remember, it determines on what they choose to pursue. So as here, there's different crimes with different statutes of limitations, both criminally and civilly, that have to be very strategic. But remember that there have been murmurings over there that they are reopening some kind of investigation. And you have to believe at the very least, whatever they hope they find, they will either use there or share with us here so that we may be able to pursue a criminal case where we might not have blown the statute. Wendy Patrick, I believe that you're right.

I do not believe Prince Andrew can be forced to come to the U.S. on a civil case. We do have an extradition treaty with Great Britain on criminal matters. If he were charged within the statute of limitations, for instance, with statutory rape, he could be extradited, brought here by force for criminal trial. Again, this is a civil case. Now, royal titles do not protect him from prosecution in criminal cases. Here's another kicker. He is a prince of full blood, which means he could claim sovereign immunity. But unlike his mother, he does not have diplomatic immunity. Long story short, it's not going to happen. He's not going to be able to, we cannot extradite him here because it's not a criminal case. And I can guarantee you, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record.

Andrew is not coming here voluntarily. That's not going to happen. In the meantime, guys, take a listen. You were just hearing the lawyer for the victim, Virginia Jeffries. That was David Boyce. Take a listen to him one more time. What happened? The first time in London, I was so young. Keelan woke me up in the morning and said, you're going to meet a prince today. I didn't know at that point that I was going to be trafficked

to that prince. And then that night, Prince Andrew came to her house in London and went out to Club Tramp. Prince Andrew got me alcohol. It was in the VIP section. I'm pretty sure it was vodka. Prince Andrew was like, let's dance together. And I was like, okay. And we leave Club Tramp. And I hop in the car with Ghislaine and Jeffrey. and Ghislaine said he's coming back to the house. And I want you to do for him what you do for Epstein. You were just hearing the alleged victim in this case, Virginia Roberts, Jeffrey, speaking to our friends at NBC. So following up on what Wendy Patrick just said, if this occurred in Britain, they would have criminal jurisdiction. But again, what's happening right now with Prince Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell and Virginia Jeffries regarding Andrew is civil. Jelaine Maxwell behind bars for her part in Epstein raping little girls, allegedly procuring them and even taking part in the molestation and the attacks.

So far, what do we know about Andrew's defense against Virginia Jeffreyries claims. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a listen to Our Cut 35. Virginia says the abuse moved from the bathroom to a bedroom. He wasn't rude or anything about it. He said, you know, thank you. And some kind of soft sentiments like that and left. I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that even royalty were involved.

She says Prince Andrew abused her two more times, once in New York in Epstein's mansion and again in his Virgin Islands estate. Prince Andrew, of course, denies that this ever happened. He denies that it ever happened and he's going to keep denying that it ever happened. But he knows the truth and I know the truth. To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, forensic expert joining us. Joe Scott, I don't think, you know, remember Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton? I use that example for one reason.

The DNA from Clinton remained on her blue dress for years before the blue dress was ever discussed openly. I don't think we're going to have any evidence like that in the case against Andrew. No, we're not. And unless she's got something sequestered away, you know, that she's held back for evidentiary purposes, you know, and that dynamic with Clinton is completely different than this. This is a young girl that was being trafficked, that was being put into a position where- Oh, I'm not drawing a parallel on the facts. I'm drawing a parallel in potential forensic evidence such as DNA coming from semen.

We had that in the Clinton case. We don't have it in this case. Not that I know of. I think this is going to be her word against his word. And we have that photo. As a matter of fact, I'm very surprised, Wendy Patrick, that there was never a criminal investigation in Great Britain since this attack occurred there, starting at Ghislaine Maxwell's townhouse. You know, the one question about that, Nancy, because you're right, that's a question everybody's asking now, is people wonder whether or not there's this protection that maybe was afforded back there. And the authorities would say no.

You know, we know about palace intrigue, but they would say there's no palace immunity that should have precluded a member of the royal family from being investigated. So if that's not the explanation, then could it have been that photos like this don't typically surface in these kinds of investigations until years later? And if that's true, then of course they'd have to discount the innocent explanations. But it's that working backwards that we're doing now that complicates finding a good answer to that question, because that's the obvious question. Why now? Why not way back when, when this actually happened? Take a listen to our friends over at Netflix.

I first met Prince Andrew March 10th, 2001 in London at Gillen's townhouse. He knocked on the door. He came inside Ghislaine's townhouse and we're sitting there having tea. Ghislaine has this favorite guessing game that she does. She goes to Prince Andrew, how old do you think Virginia is?

And he said 17. And she's like, oh, you're right. And they made a little joke about it. He's like, oh, my daughters aren't far from your age. You know, my daughter's a little bit younger than you. We went out for the night, club tramped in London. And he dances, and he's profusely sweating over me, and it was disgusting.

Take a listen to more from Virginia Roberts Jeffries. It ended with sexual abuse and intercourse and then a pat on the back. You've done a really good job. Like, you know, thank you very much. And here's $200. You know, before you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians and to academics and to people that you royalty and people that you just you would never think, like, how did you get into that position of power in the first place? If you're this disgusting, evil, decrepit person on the inside. investigative reporter. Alexis, so far, Prince Andrew has raised multiple defenses against Virginia Jeffrey's claims of statutory rape. Ghislaine Maxwell is a key to unlocking the case.

And I can't help but believe that if she would rat out on Andrew, that her case would miraculously go away. What defenses has Andrew been throwing up? He didn't say anything for years and years and years. Then he gave an on-camera interview, which really was the worst decision he ever made because he was so unbelievable in his stories he said he has never met virginia except there's a picture and then he looked at the picture and he said you know this i've never uh this is obviously upstairs you can see there's a banister it's upstairs in julian's house i never went upstairs which is strange that he can recognize the upstairs but he never went upstairs there's clearly a that he can recognize the upstairs, but he never went upstairs. There's clearly a picture of him. Then he says the picture is doctor. That doesn't look like my hand.

Then he said I wasn't at a club that night. I was at a pizza parlor with one of my daughters for her friend's birthday party. And everyone says, you remember you were at a pizza parlor in 2001. He says, well, I looked at my schedule and I was I think it's Essex Pizza Parlor. And the pizza place said we have no recollection of that. Then he said, when I thought, when I was in the military and I believe he was in the Gulf War, he says

I had, it was so traumatic that I have a condition where I no longer sweat. Virginia is saying they went dancing that night. He was sweating all over her. It was disgusting. He says, I don't sweat. Well, then there are a slew of pictures are published from over the years because he's been famous for 70 years. And you can see all these different pictures of him sweating. So every single thing that he said was just seemed like a lie. They all seem like

excuses that he made up on the fly. Oh, I don't sweat. I went to a pizza parlor. I've never been upstairs because look at this picture. This is upstairs. All of it really seemed really just to say that he was guilty. You left out one that I really love, Alexis, although everything you said was accurate. He also said the clothes he was wearing were not his quote traveling clothes. Oh, that's right. Yes. He says I would never wear, you know, a blue shirt. That's not what I wear when I travel. And I guess a prince has only traveling clothes and regular clothes. So you're telling me, Alexis, that there are photos of him where he is sweating? Yes, there are lots of photos of him sweating,

lots and lots of photos of him sweating. And there are lots of pictures of him in a blue shirt when he's you know traveling or not traveling like everything he said has been refuted by picture evidence and not pictures that virginia has pictures that are in the public domain there'll be professional pictures of him in public places you know that that condition he claims that he has is anhydrosis. It's when your sweat glands are affected by a sudden shock that he claims he got in the fall clones. Have you ever heard of that, Dr. Angie? Anhydrosis? Oh, sure I have.

It's a condition. So it's a thing. It's a real thing. But I don't know if he necessarily has that. But you know the problem with him claiming that, him claiming that as a defense, is, you know, less is more when it comes to what do you say to the press if you're a suspect. By focusing on some of these little details, what it really comes down to is he looks uncredible as to all of the details. You know, it doesn't matter if you fudge the truth about something small. It impacts about the big stuff.

I don't know if anybody else caught this, but as a prosecutor, when I looked at his first interview, he hesitated at the beginning when he was asked about the picture. He said he didn't remember. Remember, that's key. Either no way did I ever do that. I would never do that. But I don't remember or I don't recall is very, very different. And I know a lot of

people aren't seizing on that. Maybe I'm making too big of a deal of it. But I think that some people that would be innocent probably wouldn't say I don't remember, but they already know they would never do something like that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The argument, Joe Scott Morgan, that the photo was faked, I think he would have been better off saying, you know what, I was at a party at Ghislaine Maxwell's. I don't remember meeting her. It's possible we were both there. but I certainly didn't commit statutory rape because it just

makes him look worse. How do you tell if a photo has been doctored forensically? Oh, yeah. I mean, one of the things that you look for, the casting of shadows, the positioning of the individual in the photo, is it does it line up with with the focal length and also the lighting that's going on in the environment? But to your bigger point, Nancy, he would have been better off keeping his mouth shut because now, because you say that this is doctored, now you bring the full force and weight of the entire, not just courts, not just investigators, but anybody that's out

there that has any understanding of photography and being able to Photoshop. And now people are going to analyze this thing just ad nauseum. And, you know, like Dr. Wendy was saying, if he had just kept his mouth shut about this one point, I mean, how many people out there would actually believe that someone would have gone to the trouble to doctor this photograph of him with this 17-year-old young lady for the purposes of blackmailing? It's absolutely absurd. I mean, you can tell that it's him in the photograph. You know, because of the timing of all of this this that more than likely he was in that particular location. So when you're trying to develop this wild story, this alibi, if you will, it's absolutely absurd because by doing this, by focusing on this little detail like this, you brought the full weight and

scope of anybody that has any interest in photography. And isn't it true, Wendy Patrick, joining us, former prosecutor, now host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ. Wendy, there is a charge, a jury instruction that judges always read to jurors. And that charge is when you believe a witness has lied in part, be it great or small, you are entitled to throw out that witness's entire testimony. If you believe they're lying. My point is, why lie about the photo being faked? Because once, as Joe Scott pointed out, they're going to bring on tons of experts to say this has not been fake. This is real.

So if you lie about that or lie about that's not my hand around her waist or I wasn't at the party or I was at Pizza Express. I mean, it goes on and on. If you're going to lie about something small, then of course you'd lie about something big. For instance, I did not rape her to save your own skin. Yeah, that's exactly right. And what's also important is the way that instruction ends. If you don't believe them on little things, you don't have to believe them on big things unless other aspects of their testimony is in corroboration. The prince doesn't have the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the last part of that instruction. We are stuck with him looking guilty, covering up a crime when ironically more evidence of the cover-up we have

than evidence of the crime. He would have been better off, as you have said, to basically say, look, you know, I was a friend of Ghislaine's. I was at her house. I don't know who else was there. I don't know who I was in a photo with, but I can tell you one thing. I would never. That would have been a way in which most people would have expected that to go down. Let me ask you this, Wendy. What happens if he doesn't show up for the civil case? Is it like a softball game where one side doesn't show up? It's a skunk.

Have you ever heard that term? You're skunked. In other words, you didn't show up, so you lose. Does he forfeit if he doesn't show up and she wins the case? No, it's an empty chair. It goes forward without him there, which may or may not be to his advantage, because obviously there's a fairness act. Question, Wendy, have you ever tried a case where the defendant wasn't there?

Yeah, I've tried it. Yes, I have. Me too. it was wonderful he showed up the first day for jury selection he was on bond he never showed up again i i tried the rest he was a drug lord the rest of the case basically standing right behind his empty chair i would just yell from there wherever anyway so if he doesn't show up, the case will go forward without him. Yes, it will. And if, in fact, that it's a conviction, if he's found liable, then, you know, he could be on the line for damages for whatever they decide the monetary amount is. And then, of course, there's the issue of what do you attach?

Where are the assets? But that initial point, let me toss out one more thing. His lawyers can fight the initial case even before it goes to trial. So they can attack it collaterally. There's no jurisdiction. We're going to toss this out. It's spurious. You know, all the reasons that you can seek to have a civil case dismissed. Basically, nanny, nanny, boo, boo. Okay, that's not going to happen. It's going to go forward with him or without him. I hope he brings his traveling clothes.

So, Alexis, what's the holdup? What's happening next? You've got the Prince Andrew issue. That's a civil case. He's not coming to the U.S. to answer up. I can just go ahead and tell you that. But there's a criminal case against Ghislaine Maxwell that is pending. It's set to go to trial.

When is that happening? It has been that there has been a firm date that has finally been set. The judge, it was supposed to start in July and then it didn't. And then the judge said, well, maybe we'll start in November. Well, the judge has just issued a letter to the court and in the case saying this case for Ghislaine will start on November 29th, 2021. So in about three months, this case is going to start and her trial is going to begin. Enjoy Thanksgiving, everybody, because we're heading to court. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.