Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Private Eye Lures Stepmom to Reveal Location of Tot Boy Lucas Hernandez’s Tiny Body

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

Emily Glass tells police she awoke from a nap and realized her 5-year-old stepson was missing from their Wichita, Kansas, home, but the 26-year-old woman waited hours before calling 911 for help. Six days later the body of the little boy, was found under a bridge. An autopsy could not determine how Lucas Hernandez died, due to advanced decomposition. The manner and cause of death were listed as “undetermined.” X-rays performed did not find any skeletal trauma. Lucas’ skeletal remains were held together via his clothing. “Debris, twigs, small rocks, and mud/soil” were found on his body, giving him a total weight of 20 pounds. The only deep, soft tissue that remained on the body was in his lower extremities. According to the report, “the hyoid bone and laryngeal cartilages are not identified.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC, Twitter @TroySlaten  Dr. Shari Schwartz, Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy), www.panthermitigation.com, Twitter: https://twitter.com/TrialDoc, David Marshburn - Private investigator, Director of Investigations for Search for Me Foundation, Former Bounty Hunter Dr. Kendall Crowns – Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County, Texas (Austin) Kristy Mazurek - Emmy Award-winning Investigative Reporter, President of Successful Strategies PR and Crisis Communications Firm Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A five-year-old little boy seemingly goes missing, vanishing into thin air, nothing left behind but an open door. What happened to Lucas? Take a listen to this 911 call. Where's your. He's not in the room. Where's your son at? I don't know. He's gone? No, he's gone.

When did he leave? I don't know. I was not going to be long enough and he's not in the room. How old is he? The front door was open. It was a landfall and he's fine. He's gone. How old is he? Ma'am? Ma'am, how old is your son? Five years old.

Did someone take him? Or did he walk off? Ma'am, I don't know. I just woke up, okay? I just't know. I don't know. Where did he walk off? Ma'am, I don't know. I just woke up. Okay. I just woke up. There he goes. You are hearing a 911 call, a frantic caller.

The little boy is gone. Where is Lucas? Let's take another listen to that 911 call. What is your son's name? Lucas. Lucas? Yes. And you said he's five years old? Is he white, black, Hispanic, or Asian? He's white. He's got some Mexican in him, but not a lot. You said he's half Mexican? Yes. Okay, that's fine. How tall is he? I don't know. About 14 maybe. I don't know.

14? That's fine. Is he thin, medium, or heavy build? He's little. He's really little. Okay. Do you remember what he was wearing? I'm on the phone with the top day now. He was wearing black sweats and a gray shirt with a bear on it. Okay. And I was like, I don't know, I'm good. So often I would introduce 911 calls in front of a jury.

Why? Because suddenly it's not just a case or testimony anymore. It's real. You are hearing a frantic 911 call. As this little boy, Lucas, just five years old, is reported missing. You can hardly make out what's being said with me. An all-star panel to make sense of Lucas' disappearance. Troy Slayton, renowned defense attorney, joining me out of LA.

You can find him at Slayton Lawyers APC on Twitter at Troy Slayton. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist specializing in forensic or criminal pathology at panthermitigation.com, one of her most recent books, one of many, Psychology of Criminal Behavior. David Marshburn is joining us, private investigator, director of investigations for SearchForMeFoundation.org,

and former bounty hunter, Dr. Kendall Crowns, deputy chief medical examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin. And just to note, only about 10% of all medical examiners ever become a deputy chief. And Christy Mazur, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, president of Successful Strategies PR and Crisis Communications Firm. You can find her by going to info at ChristyMazur.com. But guys, first, we're not through with that 911 call listen i need to call him i understand i understand okay i need to get a little bit more information okay when was the last time you saw him around like three o'clock okay and you're out he was at home? Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right. And what color is his hair? It's brown. Short or long? It's short. Okay. Was he wearing anything else? A hat or anything? He had white socks on and he had a pull-up on because we were taking a nap.

What do you mean a pull-up? A pull-up for nighttime, you know. Okay, what color was that? White and blue. White and blue? And brown eyes. Okay. And really, really long eyelashes.

Okay. And I don't know. I want to go first straight out to a very special guest joining us, Christy Missouri, Emmy Award-winning investigative reporter. Christy, where did this happen? Where did Lucas go missing? He went missing out of the home. That's Emily Glass calling 911. That's the little boy's, you know, girlfriend. So, I think it was Wichita, correct? That's right, in Wichita. So, Wichita. And as a matter of fact, here's an idea about the neighborhood. Another clue we get from the 911 call.

Listen. Is he the only one missing? Yes. Okay, did you see any suspicious people in the area? No. Okay. I mean, I mean, I didn't know there was some people hanging out in the corner of my house, but I don't know. So there were some suspicious people in the corner? I don't know. I don't think that would have to do anything with it, but you just never know in this neighborhood. It doesn't look good.

Okay. Where is he? Suspicious people in the neighborhood, but I thought he was taking a nap. Take a listen to this. Was he taking a nap with you? Well, he was sitting a nap in his room. Okay. I put a movie on for him, and I took a shower really quick to check back on him.

Okay. And then my room. Okay, so you went to check on him and then you went to go take a nap and he's not there anymore, correct? Okay, it's okay. Do you know if he left with anything else? Was there any pets missing or anything? We don't have any pets. And his shoes are here and his coat is here. His shoes and coat are in there?

Yes, ma'am. Okay. So very quickly to you, David Marshburn, private investigator, closely, closely connected to this case. Just based on the 911 call alone, I've got two alternatives. I've got these suspicious people standing on the corner, and I've got the possibility of this five-year-old little boy who was taking a nap wandering out into the elements wearing no shoes and nothing but a pull-up. That's what I'm getting from the 911 call. David Marshburn, veteran private investigator, former bounty hunter,

could you tell me about the neighborhood, the suspicious people she's referring to on the corner? What is she talking about? Well, the way the way I see it is most of the time when kids are abducted from a home, it usually has to involve a parent or someone close to the home. And it's like, you know, she didn't stress the point of the strangers or the people that were suspicious. She just kept going back to he's missing, he's missing. And it was like the 911 dispatcher was the one that put that in her mind to just come up with, it seemed to me. You know what? You're right. You're right. She did not voluntarily come up with that. She came up with that when she was questioned.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, a little boy, five-year-old Lucas, seemingly goes missing during an act where nothing but a pull-up take a listen to Kansas police officer Charlie Davidson still missing is five-year-old Lucas Fernandez Lucas was last seen wearing black sweats white socks and a gray shirt with a bear on it our thoughts and prayers remain with Lucas and Lucas's family as we are diligently investigating the situation. On Friday, February 17th at approximately 6 15, officers were dispatched to a lost juvenile call at a residence in the 600 block of South Edgemore.

When they arrived, they made contact with a 26-year-old female who was the stepmother of Lucas. She reported to officers that she last saw Lucas in his bedroom at approximately 3 p.m. prior to her showering and falling asleep. Officers and K-9 units have diligently checked the home and the neighborhood with no luck of locating Lucas at this time. Guys, you are hearing veteran police officer Charlie Davidson speaking. Do I have this wrong, David Marshburn? Because I thought she said at the beginning he was wearing a pull-up. But now I'm hearing black sweats, white socks, a gray shirt with a bear on it. That's correct. And if you also catch that, you know, she first stated that she woke up from a long nap,

and then it changed to she took a really quick shower. You know, Troy Slayton, you have children, right? I do. I know what my children have on right now. I even know what color their underwear is because I took it out for them. The night before, I know what color their socks are. Everything. I know it sounds like a small thing.

But to have the outfit so drastically different, in my mind, is a big thing. From a pull-up to black sweats with a gray shirt with a bear on it and white socks. That's a big difference, Troy Slayton. Imagine the chemical reaction going on in somebody's brain when they realize that their child is missing and they are making that call to 911 and they are being asked all sorts of questions when all they can think about is, oh my God, where is my child? I want my child back. And the 911 operator doing a diligent job, trying to do their job and gather as many facts as they can and get as much information as they can initially.

There's no textbook for the way that a person is supposed to react. I was waiting for that. I was waiting for that, Troy. You remind me so much of Defense Attorney Mark Garagos. Because when he was defending Scott Peterson and I was talking about Peterson's affair with his mistress, Amber Frey, he said, there's no textbook for grief. You know, I know he made all those phone calls to Amber. They were all lies.

But there's no textbook for grief. Now you're saying there's no playbook. You know, when my son, John David, went missing for about five minutes in Toys R Us, the first thing I yelled out, he's missing, I immediately said, he's wearing plaid shorts and blue Crocs. I didn't forget what he was wearing. So I hear what you're saying, Troy, and I respect you and what you do for a living,

trying to make the best out of a really bad situation. But in this case, I want you to hear now what the father of Lucas tells me. Listen. I thought that maybe he had wandered off. You know, I got the phone call when I was working in New Mexico, and I immediately went into shock, especially when I spoke with police officers and they said that they were at my residence and performing at least a neighborhood search in the immediate times after and that they still hadn't found him. I was really, really, really concerned because he doesn't, you know, he's not the type of

boy that wonders off or does anything without asking permission. So I knew something really was wrong. You know, to Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist and author of Psychology of Criminal Behavior, Dr. Schwartz, what the father is telling me is very significant. Because if someone told me that John David or Lucy just left the house, I wouldn't believe that because they have never in 13 years, even as little children, done that. So it's contrary to everything I know about them. I would not believe that.

So when you hear the father say in five years, he's never been the type to just leave the house, that means a lot to me. That's a very significant evidence, evidence of behavior. I agree with you, Nancy. This is a father who knows his son. And this is his instinct reaction, right? His intuition is telling him something bad happened here because my son doesn't just wander off. And these are the cues that we need to pay attention to.

To Chrissy Mazurek, joining me, Emmy Award-winning investigative reporter, Where Is Lucas? Extensive searches involving over 100 officers, dogs, helicopters, searches conducted in parks, streams. I just searched for this five-year-old little boy, Christy Mazurk. Both cops in the community scoured everything, went door to door, got surveillance video, started tracking cell phones of both Emily Glass, the boy's father, and family members. Not a sight. Nothing. They never saw the boy leave the house.

They never saw someone take the boy from the house. It is as if he has vanished into thin air. We are talking about the disappearance of a little five-year-old boy. Where is Lucas? Let's enter veteran private investigator David Marshburn, and you can find him at searchformefoundation.org. He's a former bounty hunter. David, how did you get involved in the search for little Lucas? Well, the grandmother called me and she asked me would I get involved and I told her that the only way I could is if, you know, the dad will call me. And sure enough, he called me

right away and asked me would I come up there and help. And I told him I would. And I told him right out in front that there's two people I'm looking at, him and Emily. And based off of what I know from the beginning of what news media was saying, and he said, that's okay. And he agreed to meet with me. You know, that's really interesting that you say that, David Marshburn. I will never forget being struck the first time I learned that Mark Klass, whose daughter Polly was stolen out of her mom's home while she was having a sleepover. He immediately said to cops when they knocked on his door, take my blood, take my fingerprint, take my door, take my blood, take my fingerprint,

take my DNA, search my place, search my car, do whatever you want to. So you can start looking for the person that took my daughter. No hesitation whatsoever. And that is exactly what Lucas's dad said. He says, sure, do whatever you need. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the disappearance of a little five-year-old boy. And joining me right now is Dr. Kendall Crowns, the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin. And although we typically think the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner is dealing with just dead bodies, he's been exposed to a lot of 911 calls.

Jump in, Dr. Crowns. I've had to listen to 911 calls, particularly at court, when they play the tapes back of the individual who may have killed their own child. And, you know, you pick up on a couple of things when you listen to them. So listening to this one, it was fascinating. Their story changed, number one. That's always a red flag. And then the fact that she's the stepmother is another red flag, too. I've noticed that individuals that don't have a vested interest in their child that isn't their blood sometimes are often responsible for their disappearance or demise. So when I heard that in the 911 call, yes, she does sound upset. She does sound like she's grieving.

But to me, it was very suspicious, so to say. Also, I grew up in the Wichita area. I know the area where the child disappeared from. And it's, you know, a lot of people think Kansas is just some rural farmland with wheat fields. But actually, in that area, it's quite a bit of houses. And for a kid to just wander off and not be seen by other members of the community is extremely interesting. It's very suspicious. You are hearing Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us out of Travis County, Texas. David Marshburn called in by the paternal grandmother, in this case, to help find little Lucas.

And somehow he finagles the stepmom, Emily Glass, that you just heard on the 911 call, into his car. David, I want to play something for you, and I want to see if you recall. It's our cut 25. It ain't gonna be half as bad as what you're thinking. It's so hard. I'm a piece of s***. I'm a piece of s***t. I'm a piece of s**t. Why do you say that? You ain't no d**k on a piece of s**t. Hey, no, no, no, no, no.

Look, we're right here, girl. We ain't going nowhere. Everything is okay. And what ain't okay, we're fixing to make okay. We're fixing to make okay. We're fixing to make okay. We're fixing to make okay. We're fixing to make okay. we're fixing to make okay. Don't be

like that. Don't be so hard on yourself. I can't do jail. I can't. I can't do jail. Okay, to you, David Marshburn, private investigator. Number one, who is the stepmother speaking to, and how in the world did you get her into the car? Well, Emily's talking to Marsha Ward. That's the girl that works for me that does. She's an associate PI. And I'm out of the car. And this is when I'm looking under the bridge to find Lucas. And I wound up talking to her. Wait, wait, wait, David, David, let me just take that in for a moment. You're looking for a five-year-old little boy under a bridge. It's hard for a mother to take in what you just said,

looking for your child up under a bridge, how did you get her, Emily, glass into the car to go look for Lucas? I mean, did you know he was dead at that point? I did. The day before, after I got done talking to the father for 10 minutes, I said, I don't need to talk to you anymore. I need to talk to Emily. So he takes me to Emily and ask her to talk to me. For 30 minutes, I'm sitting there talking to that happened prior to that caused Lucas's demise. And maybe she just got scared.

In other words, you gave her the choice to say he died and she didn't have anything to do with it. And then she just hid his body. You gave her that window. Yes, ma'am. Did you believe that? She did. Did you believe it? No.

As a matter of fact, take a listen to David Marshburn speaking to Emily Glass, our Cut 24. Now, I don't know what Lucas looked like when he passed away. Was he on his back? Did he throw up? Did he choke on his own vomit? Was he just dead in his bed? Dead on the couch? Huh?

He was on the bed? On the couch? On his side or on his back? On his bed. On his side or on his back? On his back. So did you think he vomited and choked on his vomit? No, I didn't see no vomit. You didn't? So he just died of a concussion.

And it's okay. It's okay you freaked out. I'm telling you so is that how you lured her into showing you where the body was david yes ma'am um it goes back to the 9-1-1 call because the details are you know at first he just like you say he's in his up. Well, then he's clothed. And it could have possibly been he threw up on himself or threw up on her, and she washed him and then clothed him and then got rid of him. Yeah, and little green men from Mars could have beamed down and taken him up for a probe. But that's not what happened.

She murdered five-year-old Lucas. So as you are cajoling her, did you know in your mind she murdered him? Yes, ma'am. A hundred percent. So what's going through your mind as you're driving around these back roads with Emily Glass, truly the evil stepmom, trying to keep her placated so she'll keep talking? What is going through your mind, David? Justice for this little boy because I lived that kind of lifestyle when I was young. I was in an abused home and had, you know, our mother's boyfriend's beat on us and stuff. And all I could think about is every hit that we were hit with that she did the same to him. What was her demeanor in the car with you?

Pretty much self-absorbed. It's what's going to happen to me. She's more upset about the outcome, not so much as him, because in her mind, where she placed him was beautiful and a nice setting, sort of like a great burial. David, you're the only one that has really spent time with this murder mom. Why did she do it? Well, another thing is she had another child. Right. thing is she had another child right um and i believe her jealousy of why she couldn't have her boys but he could have his and now i'm taking care of him well i don't want that life anymore i want it just with me and my husband and our child together take a listen to our cut 26. I did Lucas so wrong. I did him wrong.

God honest truth. You are hearing the truly evil stepmother, a murder mom, stating, I did Lucas so wrong. I did him wrong. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to Lucas Hernandez at the hands of evil stepmother, murder mom, Emily Glass? To David Marshburn, did she ever divulge how she really murdered this five-year-old little boy? No, ma'am. I kept with the same program of the out that I gave her. I know it's just Marcia and I against her, but you want to keep her on that same level until law enforcement get there.

And, you know, as far as her mentality at that time, you know, the forensic psychologist is going to be a better option on what's going through her mind. And I can just see what physically, but as far as reading her, that would be more for the psychologist. You know, let's go to you, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist specializing in criminal pathology. Dr. Sherry, a lot has been made of the fact that the father traveled a lot for work. And she, Emily Glass, stayed home and took care of his son from another woman, Lucas Hernandez, along with her own child, a little girl. But her little girl was fed and taken care of and petted and doted upon, but not Lucas. Why? That's actually more common than we care to discuss, Nancy, that stepchildren, I'm not sure of the exact statistic,

but there are statistics out there that show that stepchildren are significantly more likely to come to some harm in a home where their primary caretaker is a step parent or where there's a step parent in the home. So that's not entirely uncommon. It's incredibly horrible and unfortunate, but not at all uncommon, sadly. And, you know, to David's point about what was going through her mind, the only thing that was going through her mind from what I'm hearing is, what about me, herself? She's not saying we need to find Lucas. She's not saying, poor Lucas, you know, he's out here somewhere. I can't sleep at night because I'm so worried about Lucas.

What she's saying is I can't do jail and I'm this horrible person, which that's not guilt. We shouldn't mistake that for guilt. In this context, what that is, or guilty conscience, I should say, what that is, is that she's using self-pity, this feigned self-pity, to manipulate the emotions of David and whoever else is listening. Poor me, poor me, poor me. It's all about me. Guys, what was going through her mind? Take a listen to our Cut 30.

This is Lucas's father, Jonathan, speaking to me. No, I did not. Not in the three years that I've known her and seen them interact. And, you know, she was always good with him. Did you guys have a stormy relationship? Did you argue about you being out of town? It would come up. I mean, it was hard.

You know, it's hard like that, especially, you know, for the kids, but also for her. And, I mean, it was hard. You know, it's hard like that, especially, you know, for the kids, but also for her. And, I mean, it was hard for me being gone. I didn't want to be away from my family for three weeks at a time. You know, I don't know if the name Julie Shinneker rings a bell, Troy Slayton, defense attorney out of L.A. Julie Shinneker, the highly educated military mom out of Florida whose husband was high up in the military too who would be gone, gone, gone while she raised two twins, two children now teens at home

and she shot both of them dead one, the son was coming back from I think it was La Crosse the daughter was at a computer working on homework and shot in the mouth. This is a common recurring thing, children being murdered by moms because dad's away from home. Well, of course, that's no defense, Troy Slayton.

Certainly, it is not a defense. And in this case, it is a stepmother and not a blood relationship. Does that matter in your mind somehow? of action to harm any child, their own stepchild is clearly laboring under psychological illness. Oh, okay. Let me understand something, Troy Slayton. Isn't it true you have your JD, not your MD with a specialty in psychiatry? Is that right? No, I'm just a doctor of law, Nancy. Right, as we all are.

I guess you're going to call you Dr. Slayton, but that is not insanity under the law. Against a five-year-old child does not have all their marbles together. Yeah, I agree with that, but the reality is not having all your marbles is not insanity under the law, which means you didn't know right from wrong at the time of the incident. And back to you, David Marshburn, who helped locate this little child's body. She clearly knew right from wrong because when you were talking to her, she kept saying, I can't do jail. I can't do jail. She knew what she did was wrong. David, tell me about the discovery of this child's body. Well, when we were riding around,

I finally got it out of her that she put him under a bridge because we were riding around forever. And I would ask her about landmarks and, you know, which bridge. And finally I got irritated and I said, all right, we're just going to stop at every bridge that we come to and we're going to look under. And sure enough, the very first bridge I come to, he's under there. And, you know, that's when she's having a conversation with Marcia. She knew I found him because I didn't know that conversation was going on.

But while I was looking under the bridge, she knew it because then she's like, I can't do jail. Oh, my God. You know, what have I done? And Marcia is just reassuring her that everything is going to be OK or we're going to make it OK. Did you yourself find the body? Yes, ma'am. I did. What did you observe well at first i couldn't make out what

it is but what when i got up to it i realized that there was a bunch of branches he was hidden so you know that's to me that's showing guilt already because you're trying to hide it you know it's one thing to go put it somewhere where someone can find him and then he can get a proper burial. But this, you actually went to the extent of gathering stuff to put on top of him to make sure no one discovers it. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, no cause of death was ever determined.

Why? Well, so the issue is the child is decomposed. And to the extent of decomposition, it's difficult to see if there's like internal damage, like the organs have either decomposed to the point you can't really evaluate them or they've been scavenged by maggots or other predators that might be in the area or other scavengers that might be in the area. So that leaves you with the problem is you can't quite make out what may or may not have happened. The other thing is, is often in these child abuse cases like this, is they're smothered with a

pillow, with a hand or something along those lines. And because of how the they're smothered with a pillow, with a hand, or something along those lines. And because of how the act of smothering leaves very little findings on a child, you might, if you're lucky, find bruising on the inner surface of the lip because of the hard pressure against the teeth, but you rarely find that. So what happens is in these smothering cases is there's actually no findings. So because of that, the decomposition, the fact that the kid could have been smothered, it's hard to say what exactly happened.

So that leaves the medical examiner with the only option of calling it undetermined, even though more than likely the child was murdered in some way. Back to David Marshburn. David, what went through your mind when you saw that child's remains covered up under a bridge? Well, you know, I try not to put my personal feelings into it anymore because, you know, the very first case I saw it, I really wanted to. My emotions got to me, and I could have done something really bad.

So I try to leave my emotions out to me and and i could have done something really bad so i try to leave my emotions out of it but you know it's hard with a child especially when you're sitting there and you can see his face he matter of fact going back to that first question you asked me what did i saw what did i see well he was mummified and he still had his face, and there was live activity with maggots. And just seeing him, that little precious baby laying there just discarded like trash was just horrible, horrific. It still affected me, but just not as it did other cases when I know the family more. To murder a five-year-old child because you're angry that daddy works away from home three weeks at a time, throw his body under a bridge to be eaten by bugs. She truly qualifies as a murder mom. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.