Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Prominent Surgeon Murdered by Patient IN EXAM ROOM: WHY?

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Police say the shooting of a Tennessee hand surgeon was a targeted event.  Dr. Benjamin Mauck was shot to death in front of a nurse, in an exam room. Larry Pickens, 29, was later arrested and charged with first-degree murder. Staff at the Campbell Clinic Orthopedics say they recognized the shooter from previous appointments.  Mauk was shot three times in the neck, chest, and upper abdomen.   A psychological evaluation of the suspect has been ordered.    Joining Nancy Grace Today: Matthew Mangino– Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States” Dr. Michelle Joy- Forensic, Clinical, and Academic Psychiatrist; Author: “An Illustrated History of the Insanity Defense;” Twitter:@Westphillymorbidart Patricia Caristo – Executive Director, Resource Center for Victims of Violent Death; Private Investigator and Former Detective at University of New Mexico Police Dept. Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Jen Smith- Chief Reporter for DailyMail.com; Twitter: @jen_e_smith   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A top Memphis surgeon is gunned down in his own exam room. Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to our friends at WREG.

Exclusive viewer video shows Collierville police running intensely to find the suspect. As sirens blare signaling the large response to the scene susan baker had just entered with her family when the chaos started someone's not going home to their family tonight and it could have been anyone else who were in the clinic today can you imagine going to your doctor's office taking taking your children there, sitting there in the waiting room, thumbing through magazines, looking at your phone when you hear shots ring out and then all H-E-L-L breaks loose. The most you can do is die for your children to try to save them. this surgeon, a seemingly beloved husband and father, a well-known surgeon in the Memphis area, gunned down in his own office in an exam room when patients attack? Why? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

But take a listen to our friends at WMC-TV. Collierville Police Chief Dale Lane says a patient of Campbell Clinic on Poplar shot and killed an employee around 2 p.m. Tuesday afternoon. Clinic officials confirm the victim is orthopedic hand surgeon Dr. Benjamin Ma. So this appears to be a one-on-one interaction that occurred in an exam room. It's not the first time a health care professional, a doctor, a nurse have been attacked by patients, including patients' husbands and wives. But why? Take a listen to our cut 24 from WASB. We are getting now our first look at the patient accused of attacking a nurse who died days later. That is Jesse Guillory, charged with manslaughter after the April 4th attack. Investigators believe he attacked a nurse

there, Baton Rouge General Lynn Truxillo. Autopsy results show she died from blood clots in her legs and lungs. Those clots resulting from a vicious attack on her. In that case, a female nurse was attacked and then died. Now take a listen to our cut 25, KABC. An LAPD SWAT team forced their way into a room where this man had barricaded himself, but not before he stabbed three people, two nurses and a doctor. Now, the suspect, a man in his 30s, walked into the emergency room. He asked to be treated and then turned on the staff. The three injured were rushed to trauma centers suffering from critical injuries. Now, in the

current case, the case in chief where the top Memphis hand surgeon was murdered, shot dead in his own exam room. We are now learning police are saying that his murder, Dr. Benjamin Mock's murder, was a, quote, targeted attack. Again, not the first time nurses, doctors have been the target of murder. Take a listen to our cut 26, ZDogg. And we hear about the nurse who died or who's in clinical care after being shot in South Carolina. We hear about EMS workers attacked in the Pacific Northwest. And now the story out of Baton Rouge General Hospital, where a nurse

was attacked by a patient on a behavioral health unit, and a lot of this is speculation, but even the overall arch of this re-points out how we are devaluing our frontline healthcare professionals, putting them in harm's way, and expecting our healers to make the ultimate sacrifice in service for their patients. Right there you're hearing Dr. Zubin Damania speaking on TikTok about attacks on nurses and doctors. Right now the Memphis community is reeling after somehow a patient armed with a handgun worms his way through the waiting room, through the receptionist area, gets back into an exam room, and then at the first opportunity unloads murdering Dr. Benjamin Mott. Dr. Angela Arnold with me, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com.

Dr. Angie, thank you for being with us. Do you ever fear your own patients? Well, Nancy, I'll tell you something. My fear is growing. typically fear my own patients because I have a, you know, I have a good system of routing out people who I feel are dangerous to come and see me. But other doctors don't have that. Other doctors don't have that same ability because if you're a hand surgeon, people are going to come to you and you don't get to pick and choose who your patients are. So, yes, there are.

And, I mean, Nancy, I cannot tell you how sick I am right now. I'm from Memphis, and Campbell's Clinic was in part of my training. And people don't understand how long it takes to become a hand surgeon. And then somebody just walks in and shoots him in the exam room dead. And I can imagine what this may have been over. Okay. It may have been over something as simple as they weren't refilling his pain medications. And so he felt the need to get back at the doctor and kill him. But he has taken a life that means so much in that community. It will take years, years just to replace this man just for the good that he has done in his community.

His family will never get over this. Can you imagine going to work one day and being shot dead? This is not why we go into medicine. We go into medicine to help people. We have all of our best intentions when we become doctors. And now we have to be scared to go to work, Nancy.

Actually, Dr. Angie, I can imagine it because that is what happened to my fiance, Dr. Angie, I can imagine it because that is what happened to my fiancé, Keith. He went to work and he was gunned down dead. On his way, bringing back everybody on the work crew, sodas and drinks to go with their lunch. So, yes, as a matter of fact, I can imagine it. I think part of the shock and the difficulty absorbing what happened is that it seemed like a perfectly normal day. And it's hard. It's as if the mind is tricking the eye because everything seems normal. And then suddenly your whole world is torn apart.

When you say that you can screen out certain patients that you believe could hurt you, why are you saying other doctors cannot do that, don't have that same luxury? Well, because Nancy, you know, when you're a surgeon and people, they don't have the same barriers to entry that I do in my practice. I have a small private practice and I am very able to pick and choose the patients that I feel like I can help and they can come to see me. Okay. For a lot of different ways that I run my practice, all right, that I won't get into here. But other doctors don't have that luxury because they aren't making their own schedules.

Someone schedules the patient at the front desk, the patient comes in for surgery. They don't have the kind of barriers to entry that I do. And it's because of the kind of medicine I practice. Surgeons don't have the kind of barriers to entry that I do, and it's because of the kind of medicine I practice. Surgeons don't have those kind of barriers. Guys, take a listen to our cut three, our friends at WREG. It has been a very chaotic day here in Collierville as the town mourns the loss of a doctor shot and killed by a patient in his care. Tonight, many hearts are aching at the loss of Dr. Benjamin Mauck, an orthopedic surgeon. Collierville police say he was shot and killed by a patient Tuesday afternoon inside the

Campbell Clinic on Poplar Avenue. It's bad. It's horrific. It's terrible. And, you know, our thoughts and prayers are with the family. crime stories with nancy grace guys we are trying to make sense of what we know right now regarding the brutal murder of a top hand surgeon attacked in his own offices in Memphis. Joining me, as I said, an all-star panel. But first, I want to go to chief investigative reporter with DailyMail.com, Jen Smith. Jen Smith, we are learning that apparently the perp had been lying in wait outside the doctor's offices for hours before gaining entrance and access to that back exam room. I mean, how terrifying is that, Nancy? For not just the victim here, but everyone who worked there and all the other patients? We don't know where specifically he was lying in wait.

If it was outside the clinic, it's called the Campbell Clinic in Collierville, which is around a 30-minute drive east of downtown Memphis. We don't know if he was outside the clinic, if he was in the waiting room. We don't know if he was outside the clinic if he was in the waiting room we don't know any of that but one other thing we have heard is that this wasn't the first time this perp was known or had you know visited this clinic according to some of the people who work here nancy he had been threatening dr malk and other people potentially in the clinic for over a week before this happened. But you're right, he was lying in wait. He, you know, thank God, didn't take it upon himself to harm anyone else

because this was a busy, working, normal day. There were plenty of people coming in and out. And like the authority said, he had designs on this one surgeon. And once he got his opportunity, he took it. What do we really know about the surgeon who is billed in the headlines as being a top hand surgeon in Memphis? But what do we really know? Take a listen to our cut one from Fox 13. Dr. Benjamin Mock, according to an article in a Memphis magazine, knew he wanted to be an orthopedic specialist from the time he was a teenager.

He told the magazine he grew up in Savannah, Tennessee, and saw a doctor help his sister recover from a sports injury. And that's when he knew he wanted to help people and become a physician. Campbell Clinic says that he would go on to graduate from Lambeth University in Jackson, then go to the University of Tennessee here in Memphis. Back to Jen joining us. Jen is the chief investigative reporter with DailyMail.com. Don't miss this.

What more do we know about this doctor who loses his life back in his own offices in an exam room. Well, like you just heard there from the clip, he was incredibly dedicated to his profession, really passionate about what he did. He wanted to help people. And he was absolutely revered, beloved by this community. You know, since the news of his death emerged, dozens if not hundreds of people have come out to say how much they loved

him and you know really trusted him but you know the more tragic element here is that he was also a family man he has a wife her name is Rhiannon and they had two very young children so they are now left dealing with the fallout from this um But all around, a stand-up man, prominent, respected physician, and much-loved father and husband. What could be a possible motive for someone to lie in wait and then somehow wrangle a spot back in an exam room while armed to attack the doctor shooting him dead. What could possibly be the motive? When you don't know a motive, which of course is not required, it's not required to show motive to a jury. The prosecutor is never asked to crawl into the mind of a killer and sort it out. But practically speaking, jurors want to know why

when a scenario may not make sense to them, they want the reasoning behind it. Why is it Matthew Mangino? Matthew Mangino joining us, high profile lawyer, former prosecutor, district attorney in Lawrence County and author of The Executioner's Toll. You can find him at mattmangino.com. Why is it that in a legal sense, we don't need to know the motive behind this murder? Why is that? Well, you know, the law does not require that there be necessarily a motive proven to a jury as to why a, you know, a murder, for instance, occurred. But it's human nature, Nancy, that people want to know why they want to fill in those blanks, whether they're required by law or instructed by a judge that they don't have to do that.

They want to understand. They want to understand why this occurred and what motivated it. Why would somebody walk into a doctor's office and gun him down? You know, so while it's not required, juries want to know. And I think prosecutors are very attentive to that. They want to be able to answer that question for jurors because it's so important to understand why something so horrific, so catastrophic could happen to another human being. But of course, it's not required under the law.

Wouldn't you agree with that, Matthew Mangino? It's not required. It's not required. You don't, the prosecution does not have to prove a murder for the motive. In this case, someone walks in with the gun, they shoot somebody in the vital part of their body, that person dies. That's a homicide. That's first degree murder. That intent can be created very quickly. You don't have to show why it happened, only that it did happen and there's a person who's responsible for it.

Now, there have been some cases where motive ultimately became clear. We're talking about a patient that murders a top hand surgeon in Memphis, lying in wait for hours, then gaining access to an exam room, then shooting the doctor dead. I want you to take a listen to our cut 17 in a case where motive was made very apparent. This is from Fox 4. The medical community in Tulsa reeling from Wednesday's deadly shooting on the second floor of a St. Francis Health System building where 45-year-old Michael Lewis from Muskogee, Oklahoma, gunned down four people, including his orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Preston Phillips, who performed back surgery on Lewis less than two weeks ago. He blamed Dr. Phillips for the ongoing pain following the surgery. That motive made clear by a letter Tulsa police say they found on the shooter after he took his own life.

He came in with the intent to kill Dr. Phillips. Wow. Joining us is Dr. Jean Gorniak, medical examiner in Clark County, that's Las Vegas, board certified forensic pathologist. Dr. Gorniak, thank you so much for being with us today. what consistent and unstoppable pain can do to a person. It seems like in that case, in Dallas-Fort Worth, it made the patient go out of their mind. Yeah, absolutely. So, especially if it's like back pain, that's really debilitating to some folks where medication doesn't work or you're, depending on your age, when you can't do your normal daily activities, like get out of bed without pain, sit down in a chair, go to the bathroom, or even drive.

So it's not only the pain, but it's also loss of your quality of life. So I remember one time I had an earache, and that pain was so terrible, you know what I mean? And it was just an earache, but I was able to get it treated. But I can't imagine where you're in pain to the point where you have to have surgery to fix it, and then it doesn't fix it. The pain is there. Nothing is helping. And then your quality of life is diminishing. I think, you know, it really gets to some people.

Or, on the other hand, in the Dallas-Fort Worth case, where the patient murdered his doctor, maybe the killer was addicted to pain pills. And because of that addiction was out of his mind. Absolutely. And so as a forensic pathologist and the opioid epidemic that we are living with now, doctors are in a very difficult position having to treat their patients for pain, but at the same time, measuring and making decisions on whether patients are really in pain, or are they just wanting the pain medication, and everybody's different. There's a story or research where, you know, women are not given the opiate's like they need, even though male counterparts with the same symptoms are getting those pain meds.

So it's a difficult position, and I don't treat live patients. So in that sense, I'm grateful that I don't have to make that decision. But it is a tough decision on assessing your patient's pain and then to treat it or not to treat it. How did this guy get access to a renowned hand surgeon, a top surgeon in Memphis? How did he get back into an exam room with a gun? You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, a psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, have you ever been afraid of a patient? I have. What happened? Well, I've been attacked by patients in the hospital setting. Fortunately, there were police around that were able to help me because I've worked on a

psychiatric ward. I worked at Grady and that's where I trained. And Nancy, I'm not sure if your viewers know this, but Grady Hospital has the largest psychiatric ward in the country. And while we were training, we would be put on call at night to take care of all of the patients that came in. And we also had to take care of the patients that came in from the prisons. And before we had, there weren't always metal detectors. And so you would just go out, get the patient from the waiting room. One patient put his arms around my neck and started trying to choke me while we were walking down the hall. And thank God there was this big, huge police officer. We call him Big Al.

And this did, I mean, I got attacked several times, if you want to know the truth. I do want to know the truth. I want to know the truth, the whole truth. Yeah, I've been attacked several times in the hospital. And I was attacked one time in the hospital and a couple of times in the psychiatric hospital in Memphis. So it's certainly not something that I am not unfamiliar with. And I have had, and as my private practice has progressed, there have been times, you know, all the doors remain locked before anyone can get in to see me. But there have been times when patients who were actually very drug seeking, and I can pinpoint those pretty quickly, have come in and they are particularly scary to treat. And it's oftentimes very hard

to get them out of your office. And I'll tell you, when drug addicts are drug seeking, Nancy, they will do anything they can to get their drugs. And now is we and I truly believe that this man because I know how orthopedic offices work. Sometimes people go to an orthopedic surgeon to have surgery, so that they can actually acquire pain medicines after the surgery. So they go through a surgery with the intent of getting the pain meds after? Yes. I'm not sure if that's what happened in this case, but I do know that at orthopedic surgery offices, there are people who work there who their only job at the orthopedic surgeon's office is to field calls from patients who are desiring their medications typically early,

and they want more medication. It would not surprise me at all if this human being thought that the doctor was the person who was stopping him from getting his medication. And so he was out to kill this doctor because he, in his mind, he thought that the doctor was preventing him from getting his medication. If that is, in fact, the motive, Dr. Angela Arnold, who has been attacked on multiple occasions by patients. You mentioned one patient tried to strangle you, to choke you. How did that happen? There was no protection. We were at a very busy city hospital, except we did have police officers

there. But the patient saw my name on my white coat. He wanted medication. I'm quite sure he was a little bit out of his mind. And he literally just charged me in the hallway Nancy and put his and put his arms around my neck and started shaking me and saying Dr. Arnold give me my medications and I called for the police officer who was a very large man thank God and the police officer made him take his arms, his hands off of me and and, you know, took him away after that. Right. A top Memphis hand surgeon shot dead in his own exam room by a patient who had lain in wait. as his wife and children try to navigate a new normal without their husband and father. What more do we know about the doctor? Take it to listen to our cut to our friends at Fox 13. He would do his residency at UT Campbell Clinic.

Campbell Clinic is where he also would go on to work as a hand, wrist, and elbow surgeon. The magazine says at Campbell Clinic, he would head up the congenital hand clinic at Le Bonheur Children's Hospital. The magazine quoting Dr. Malkus saying, the hand is how we interact with the outside world. And when your hand is involved involved it affects almost every single thing you do end quote apparently a passion he truly believed in and an industry where he surely made his mark as a matter of fact dr mock was just named one of the top memphis doctors take a listen to our cut five wmc tv dr mock was just named one of the top doctors in Memphis by a nationally recognized group. And less than a week ago, Action News 5 talked to Dr. Mock about kids and firework safety for the 4th of July.

We can get the word out to keep kids, you know, safe from fireworks. I think, you know, if any kid's hand's saved, by the standpoint it's worth it. To Jen Smith joining us, Chief Investigative Reporter at DailyMail.com. I'm just thinking about Dr. Mock saying the hand is how we interact with the outside world. It affects almost every single thing you do. Jen, he loved, loved what he did. And he loved his family. I don't understand the motive behind shooting Dr. Mock dead. I don't understand how the shooter got back into that area and had access to the doctor. What do we know about how he got back there, Jen?

You know, there are just so many unanswered questions. Still, Nancy, the local authorities who are handling this investigation are really being tight-lipped on this one. They won't tell us what they believe the part's suspected motive is. They won't tell us how he got back there. Now, of course, if you're following the theory that this was someone who was looking for pain medication, could have been that he simply made an appointment with Dr. Mock. We don't know if this is a guy who had seen Dr. Mock before and therefore a staff had no reason to suspect him. We really don't know much at all about this guy, which is making this case, you know, all the more confounding.

Well, Nancy, you know, the one question that I would ask, and the issue has been raised, you know, how did this patient get back there to see the doctor with a gun? And I think one of the things we can't ignore, sort of the elephant in the room, as far as I'm concerned, is that, you know, the state of Tennessee, they have no licensing or permit scheme for possessing a handgun either openly or concealed in the state. So an individual without a license, without a permit can carry a concealed weapon in the state of Tennessee. So you hide this gun on your person, and it's not even unlawful to do that. You go back into the office and you murder an innocent doctor. So I mean, I think Tennessee has to take a look at itself to a certain extent with regard to this matter. What more do we know about the incident? Take a listen to our cut 11. This is the chief Dale Lane at Collierville PD. We do have one

fatality and probably all that we're going to release at this point. We did conduct multiple searches of the facility, continue to make sure that it was secure including we had our drone pilots fly the exterior of the building to ensure that we didn't have anyone that the suspect may have encountered it's bad it's horrific it's terrible uh and you know our thoughts and prayers are with the family we have made notification to them and so we're going to continue to pray for them and i would hope that your viewers would do the same. But that's out of respect for them and those employees. We don't want to release the name. So it's not a mass shooting.

The shooter didn't take down people on his way out or on his way in. This was a targeted attack on what we believe to be a beloved hand surgeon and family man. So how does that jive with the facts that we know? Take a listen now to our Cut 21 Action News 5. According to a police affidavit just after 2 p.m. Tuesday, clinic staff said Pickens was quote being treated by Dr. Benjamin Mock when Mr. Pickens removed a pistol from his waistband and fired three rounds at Dr. Mock. Dr. Mock was found deceased inside an exam room with gunshot wounds to his chest, upper abdomen, and neck. Back to you, Jen Smith, Chief Investigative Reporter with DailyMail.com. We understand there was a good bit of planning that went into the shooting of Dr. Mock, husband and father.

Apparently, the shooter came into the offices with a backpack. And in the backpack was the gun and two empty magazines. He came locked and loaded, specifically looking for Dr. Mock. He did. That's absolutely right. He knew exactly what he was doing. It seems like he knew exactly who he was looking for, Nancy. Take a listen to WREG-TV. Police have not identified the suspect,

describing the shooting as a one-on-one encounter that occurred inside an exam room. The gentleman that was with me he actually saw the shooter run out of the building and he was letting the officers know that as we were still trying to get out of the building. A witness on scene told WREG the suspect had been threatening Dr. Maulk for at least a week. Collierville Police Chief Dale Lane said during the press conference the department had no knowledge of the alleged threats. I mean Dr. Angie, Dr. Angela Arnold joining us, renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie, when you are dealing with a patient, does it ever cross your mind?

This patient could kill me. This patient could attack me. There are some patients that it does cross your mind that that could happen. But what I don't understand is if this guy, why do they know now that this guy was stalking this guy for a week and nobody protected the doctor from him going into his office? Why is that information coming out now, Nancy? I agree. If he had been threatened for a week, A, what's the motive? B. Why is he being threatened? And C. Why did they let the guy in? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Grace, we're trying to make sense of a seemingly senseless shooting of a husband, a father and a renowned surgeon. What were you saying, Dr. Angie? If there are active threats, then have a police officer. The presence of a police officer deters people from doing things like that.

Have a police officer standing at the front desk. Why is everybody so afraid of having a police officer stand somewhere when someone's life is being threatened? You know what? We can't take these things lightly anymore, Nancy. And we also know that the guy lay in wait. He waited for his chance to gun down this doctor. Is there some motive that has escaped us at this point? Guys, take a listen to our cut 15 WMC TV. We begin with breaking news following the tragic death of a beloved Collierville doctor. The gunman who opened fire inside an exam room has officially been charged with murder and aggravated assault. Here he is. This is 29-year-old Larry Pickens. Collierville police say Pickens lives in Memphis and investigators are working

with other agencies to see if there were any prior reports filed on Pickens. Jen Smith joining us, DailyMail.com, chief investigative reporter. Jen, how did they apprehend the shooter? You know, in this case, Nancy, the local law enforcement really did do their job and they did it well. They arrested Pickens outside the clinic just a few minutes after the shooting took place. So he had shot the doctor, Dr. Mock. He then ran through the clinic,

you know, breathing past all the other people who were in the waiting room. He's arrested outside. We've seen video from inside the clinic the moments afterwards where the cops are looking for him and they end up taking him into custody right outside just a few minutes later. You know, I'm just trying to figure out what was so important that this guy go in and he was ready. This was premeditated Matthew Mangino he goes in with a backpack in the backpack is a gun a handgun in two magazines he waits for his opportunity goes in gets alone with a doctor

in an exam room and guns him down dead we are waiting determine, is there some other motive? You know, what surprises me, Matthew, is that an assistant wasn't also killed because typically when you've got one doctor in the room, there's an assistant in there. Right. So we know, you know, from that, that this is specifically targeted at Dr. Mock. This person went there prepared in a premeditated manner to kill Dr. Mock. My concern is if Dr. Mock was being threatened, you know, why weren't the threats taken more seriously? And I think that is something that this story really hits home on. You can't just blow off a threat, not in this age, not with all the deadly killings across the country, mass killings. You have to take every set threat seriously. Certainly, I know you don't want

to have a doctor's office where you have a security guard sitting in the lobby. That doesn't make patients feel comfortable necessarily. But you can't just ignore a threat. And that's what this story tells us more than anything else. Cops ID a suspect in the cold-blooded shooting of a beloved Tennessee hand surgeon. And again, it's not the first time that doctors, nurses, caregivers have been attacked and killed. Take a listen to Hour Cut 18, our friends at CrimeOnline.com.

Stephen Passeri got to be friends with Dr. Michael Davidson when Dr. Davidson was treating Passeri's mother, Marguerite, for some pretty serious heart and lung issues. When Marguerite passed away, Steven Passeri blamed Dr. Davidson for her death. Passeri became fixated on a lung medication the doctor prescribed to his mother, believing the medication caused a fatal complication. Steven Passeri's brother Gregory told the Boston Globe that their mother's death was hard and his brother was destroyed by it. But he was still shocked when Stephen Passeri walked in Brigham and Women's Hospital, asked to see Dr. Davidson. Then, seeing the doctor outside an examination room, Passeri pulled a gun and shot Dr. Davidson passes away and the patient's son blames the doctor. Now, is that any justification for murder?

No, it's not. In fact, that is cold-blooded revenge. So what is the motive in the murder of Dr. Benjamin Mock? Again, it happens all too often. Take a listen to our Cut 19, our friends at Fox 5. Grief and shock permeate the Cartersville community. Attorney Antonio Mari was gunned down in his office Wednesday afternoon. The doors were open for business like they typically would be,

and that's when the suspect came in and fired three shots. Murray represented a woman in a divorce case Wednesday morning and he felt threatened by his client's husband, Walt Radford. Radford shot Murray then went to his wife's home, broke in through the back door and killed himself. In that case, a lawyer representing a client ends up stopped and murdered. Is that the case here? What was the reason behind this unpredictable shooting? But the staff in Mock's office recognized the shooter. Take a listen to our Cut 20 Action News 5.

The shooter who has been charged was a patient at Campbell Clinic, a nurse practitioner telling police that she recognized him from previous visits. Now, what caused him to allegedly fire his weapon, that is still under investigation. 29-year-old Larry Pickens is facing first-degree murder and aggravated assault charges. So, to Jen Smith, chief investigative reporter at dailymail.com the staff knew this guy he was absolutely a patient of dr mox they did yeah absolutely they recognized him and see they knew who this guy was now as for what drove him to do this of course we still don't know that but the fact that he had had contact with Dr. Mock before that he was a patient

it really moves this one step further along in the investigation to explain what could have potentially happened here. Dr. Gorniak, Dr. Jan Gorniak joining us, a medical examiner out of Clark County that's in Vegas. Dr. Gorniak when when you were doing your rotations, getting your medical degree, did you ever feel any fear of patients or people that you would treat? I did not. And it's interesting is I'm thinking back to my medical education and I don't remember even being taught about safety, your own safety, not just patient safety, but your own safety. And I, as a forensic pathologist, obviously my patients aren't the ones I'm afraid of, but they're families. And to give some insight, as being a physician, we're in our DNA to help. So no matter how the patient approaches you or even those threats, why we don't take them seriously, because they're coming for us to help and we think that we can help. So I've had some situations where I reacted first before actually thinking because my patient's families are number one to me. And I had to tell them some

bad news. And I was actually sitting in the house and away from the front door. And had it not been for my patient's mother's sister holding her back, I may not have gotten out of the house. And then you think about, you know, the patient's father was sitting next to me on the couch. There could have been a gun under the couch. And so the next time when I had to go to a family member's home, then I brought the police with me. Because I'm thinking as a physician, I can talk, you know, I can talk my way out of whatever the situation was. I can be empathetic. I can be sympathetic. And of whatever the situation was. I can be empathetic. I can be sympathetic.

And they want that from me. But now I have a better insight, especially with grieving people. You just never know. So you always have to take every, like someone said, take those threats seriously, even as benign as they think they are. You really have to, you know, take care of yourself and your own safety first, including the patient's safety. To Jen Smith joining us, DailyMail.com. As we go to air now, the defendant has actually been in court. What happened?

He has, yeah. He made his first initial appearance, Nancy, in front of a judge in Collierville. It was a very quick appearance not much happened at all he was brought in in an orange jumpsuit he was wearing a medical mask and he was asked whether or not he could afford his bail which has been set at 1.2 million dollars he shrugged and he responded by saying I'm not sure mean, I think we all know that he probably cannot afford this bail. After that, he was taken back to custody and he's going to be back in court on July 20th, Nancy. So he obviously is in his right mind saying, I don't know if I can afford that $1.2

million bond or not, Judge. He clearly knows what's going on. He was not out of his mind at the time he gunned down a renowned Memphis surgeon leaving a wife and children now alone. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.